Mini Bonanza - the Beechcraft Sundowner

[@caseystidham448]

This exact sundowner is a trainer for the Skyhawks aviation club on Orcas Island Wa. I have personally piloted it. Great airplane and is being put to good use training many pilots on Orcas Island.

[@johnorr7386]

Hi Brandon, I owned Sundowner VH-UMF (Australia) for 5 years back in the 80s befor I upgraded to a C33 Debonair. I loved both those planes! Your C23 is very nicely fitted out. Great avionics and I like that KCS-55A/KI-229 combination! John.

[@screddot7074]

Loved my 77 Sundowner. A little slow but very comfortable.

[@paulthurston2883]

The Beech Sundowner is a beautiful aircraft. I have logged many hours flying one. You have a lovely aircraft there. Very jealous !

[@spiro5327]

Awesome flight and great communication between the various aircraft in the area maintaining situational awareness.

[@padsliderfranco9561]

Great video. Thanks Brandon and Bobby. I’m rewatching sailing vids.

[@tbyrde53]

Good memories of my flight training for my commercial and instrument rating. Did a good deal of it in the Beech Sundowner. Sturdy plane, well built, little stiff legged if you don't flare properly!

[@rodmanser7573]

same here, and the Dutchii - just seeing those white yokes brought back memories.

[@henryrobert2523]

He had a smooth and nice landing.

[@DOLRED]

This summer I flew the club Sundowner a number of hours--all short time. I decided to leave the small window open and found it to be refreshing in our humid hot summers here.

[@Aero360Aviation]

I like his platform and plans for their club. Also interesting facts about the Sundowner - I had never really considered this airplane before.

[@Paiadakine]

Trailing link landing gear makes landings nice. Was a Beechcrafter in the early 80’s.

[@mojogrip]

I was looking at beechcraft sundowner. Didn't even know this model existed until earlier this year. Congrats Brandon!

[@bobgreen384]

Got my PPL in 75 flying a C23. Memories!!

[@TVaughan667]

Love those Bonanzas with tip tanks.

[@nobodysbusiness4130]

Honest assessment. Very stable platform. Built like a tank so its forgiving. Bought a nine year old one in 84 1/3 of the way through my private. Owned it 12 years and you dont know this yet but inexpensive to maintain. Weathered tie down parking well. Biggest expense I had was a $500 muffler except for a $3K imron paint job.that it still had on it as of 2012. Flew it 800 hours and got my instrument in it too. Annuals are inexpensive and easy. Great plane and awesome time builder. Thanks for the memories.

[@scotabot7826]

Wow, If you got a Imron paint job for 3K, you got one heck of a deal. Well, depending on what they did I should say. Most quality total strip and paint jobs I have seen are 10K plus!!

[@judoka5051]

The Bo added flaps for formation work, laughed when I saw that!

[@sdritzi]

I did my primary training in Beech singles back in the late 70's. Great aircraft and recommend them highly.

[@steveellington8313]

I love to fly the Warrior but I could see myself falling in love with the Sundowner

[@cyclomaniac9086]

Great video Bobby.... Way to make the dream reality. Good job Brandon.

[@yamilrx]

Man I was hoping for one of your videos on the beechcraft sundowner or musketeer and it came through. Thanks a lot.

[@chetmyers7041]

17:05 Nice air to air work and video. 22:30 Great landing!

[@bradfoster9461]

Got my instrument rating in a sundowner.loved that airplane. Went on to fly the Sierra, dutchess, and then flew 414s.

[@u.s.patriot3415]

Have always been a huge, huge fan of Beech Aircraft, but after viewing this great presentation about the Beech Sundowner/"Baby Beech"...I'm now a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE fan of Beech Aircraft! (Also, a fan of Brandon's Club arrangement/agreement/voting and communication system. Very wise to have planned tje Club's structure that way. Many can learn from it).👍🇺🇸

[@GMascelli]

Nice video! I used to own and fly a 1980 Sundowner. Actually, the Sundowner cabin is two inches wider then the Bonanza. Our second plane was a Beech Debonair. We recently purchased a 1976 Commander 112A.

[@jameswikstrom4174]

Very nice video . I feel as a novice you can get a better feel for the fundamentals of flying with smaller airplanes. I really enjoy your choice of videos. I am originally from the south so when I hear people speak of pit barbecue it makes my mouth water! Nothing beats some good smoked barbecue. Love your videos and comments.

[@fudogwhisperer3590]

Flew a Beach Sierra here and there for a while.........lots of fun!

[@marsgal42]

Nice to see another Mouse. :-) I fly a '63 Musketeer. Some differences in the details, but all the same comments apply: roomy but slow, nice to fly, intolerant of sloppy landings.

[@sparkie951]

I have the Bigger Brother, the C24R Sierra.. the Baby Beeches are the best... really enjoyed the video! Thanks for sharing!

[@joshplum1924]

You chill music reminds me of watching Fun with Louis Around the World.

[@richardcremer]

Bobby you always make me relax and sit back and and enjoy! I don't know nothing about flying but always get stuck to the screen ! great to see you doing 2 Chanels , sorry I can only be petreon on one Chanel , just keep up the great work you do !🛩🐩🐩⛵️🐩🐩🍻

[@Hucfinn-zz8dl]

Thanks Bobby for another great airplane video ! Really love the view from the belly of the plane ! It shows us a real different view of the landscape !!!

[@wb1065]

FYI. That fancy gtn 650 will allow you to monitor a separate freq, say departure for flight following. Always good to have extra eyes out for you. Another great video and cool airplane. Thanks.

[@corvairchris82]

I was watching the landing, I thought I saw the flaps retract right at touchdown, I had to go back and rewatch to make sure I saw what I thought I was seeing. Then near the end of the video Brandon mentions that there's a placard about raining the flaps to improve braking, very interesting, most other aircraft I'm familiar with don't raise the flaps until clearing the active runway. Great video Bobby!

[@marsgal42]

Corvair Chris My Musketeer is the same: clear the flaps as soon as you’re firmly on the ground. Better braking, less risk of FOD in a low-wing plane. I learned to fly in Cherokees and you do the same thing for the same reasons.

[@scotabot7826]

That's the case with most airplanes fitted with flaps. Unloads the wing and puts pressure on gear. Most people don't want to be reaching for the flap handle/switch at touch down though, so they wait until pulling on the ramp. Watch some of these stol guys, and when and how they use the flaps. They are using their wings full potential!

[@marsgal42]

With a johnson bar flap lever there's not much chance of confusing the flaps with anything else.

[@scotabot7826]

@@marsgal42 Yep, Love those. Hated it when Cessna went with the electric setup. Love the "feedback" you get through the linkage!

[@pacadet]

It's relatively common. I generally fly a 172S and even it's POH recommends raising the flaps after touchdown for short field landings.

[@lennytropianoatx]

Nicely done Brandon - Bobby became a Patreon today - you took good care of Ken & Brandon - friends of mine.

[@kennethparker1032]

He always takes good care of his "guests". He was raised right!

[@FlyingDoodles]

Hey thanks so much Lenny! We

[@sabeillard]

Great video as always! This time the pilot was a little bit nervous... Needing more flying hours... 😉

[@2507gs]

I blame too much coffee and cameras. :)

[@sabeillard]

@@2507gs 😁👍

[@laurenceburr2097]

Another great flyingdoodles video! Please give this video a thumbs up and allow the ads to play through. This really helps to grow the channel and supports Bobby!

[@Av8rThor]

I had a partnership in an expensive boat. Use agreement was simple, whoever called “dibs” first got it. One dibs at a time. Worked quite well.

[@mythologicalmyth]

love the Beechcraft Logo and your hat.

[@MrCjswim]

Got my ticket on a Sundowner too. Nice plane to fly.

[@LibertyBanjo]

My old bird. I have lots of videos on my page with this sturdy ship. Three trips to EAA from WA state with my young twins. Good times.

[@PilotPartner]

When we were just about to sign the papers to buy 831KT I searched youtube for Century 1 Autopilot and started watching the video. Quickly I realized, hey... this video is the plane we are about to buy! I'd love to connect with you via email, text or carrier pigeons some how.

[@2507gs]

Thanks again for taking such good care of her! :)

[@tripacer8259]

Beechcraft are the finest planes I have ever flown. They are just rock solid in every area except speed but it's not built for that.

[@scotabot7826]

There are even certified aerobatic versions of the Musketeer and the Sundowner. Talk about fun. Throw in a roll or loop on your way to get a $100 hamburger.

[@jumpinjack1]

Aerobatics in a Sundowner was a sales gimmick only. The tails were not designed for the heavy stresses.

[@scotabot7826]

@@jumpinjack1 Not true at all!! I said there were several models that were designed for (sportsman) aerobatics. I did not say all Sundowners. There may have been a rumor at one time that all the Sundowners were capable. There ARE several Sundowner models that were designed for aerobatics. They have a couple extra ribs, thicker leading edge skins and beefed up Horiz and Vert attach points and hdwe. There are also leading edge spades on the horz stab at the root and a spade mounted under the tail on the fuselage bottom. Quick release doors and several other airframe mods. So, most Sundowners out there were not certified for any aerobatics, but there are several models that are and were designed for aerobatics!! Check it out. You may be surprised. You ever heard of a 150/152 Aerobat? Beech was trying to do the same thing!

[@jumpinjack1]

@@scotabot7826 "beefed up Horiz and Vert attach points and hdwe"? ........Not the approved one I've seen. The spades and the external nose cowling ribs added for the aerobatic mod. were because of the poor spin characteristics in testing.....not a good aerobatic platform in my book. PS: don't be foolish and think your in an Extra EA300 or a Zivko Edge 540 stunt plane while flying your Sundowner.

[@scotabot7826]

@@jumpinjack1 Look, just get the Beech build sheets and construction diagrams of you want to know more about the changes in design. I made a simple comment about a real airframe that Beech built and certified in the Aerobatic category, and it has sent you into a flat spin. Please don't put works in my mouth either. I never said it was a competition aircraft. The words Extra or Edge never came out of my mouth. I never said anything about poor spin recovery, none of it. All I said was Beech certified a Sundowner in the aerobatic category that would do SPORTSMAN maneuvers and was CERTIFIED to do so. I never said it was good at aerobatics, again your reaching. It also would take a fool to compare a Sundowner to a UNLIMITED aerobatic design. Again, why you went there I have no clue. What I do know though, is that I'm done debating the subject with you, so move along.

[@dpsschafer]

Certified +6, -3 g’s in normal category is pretty good. Obviously I can only believe these numbers increase for the aerobatic category. No way it’s performance/very limited aerobatic abilities are worth the cost. But yes, it is interesting.

[@stationmanager6455]

Interesting aircraft.I flew one in Australia for a week or to.It had come in as a trade.Temperatures in summer 39 to 42C. The strip I did some flying off was 3100 ft above sea level. I found the Sun downer quite a heavy aircraft to say a PA28 Cherokee.It sure needed the 0360 Lycoming engine. Cruise speed average. You can get 120 kts out of n 0360 Cherokee.But build wise its very solid, typical Beechcraft. Thanks for posting the video

[@Dave5500]

Beautiful airplane, great piloting!!!

[@rblue78]

I own a Sierra. It’s right at 200hp so not high performance but cruise at 130, which is fine for me.

[@aeroteslaaviationworks176]

True 4-place indeed.

[@aloofdork]

Thanks for these vids. Great for seeing what different aircraft are like.

[@scarybaldguy]

Amazing how that Bo can stay airborne with the prop turning that slow. (Do I really need a sarc tag here?)

[@steveevans424]

I skip the expensive uber jet and pressurized piston videos and only watch the beetle bug and station wagon videos they seam more real- tactile-fun and hands on like this one :)

[@matthewbrooder9414]

Id love a Sierra, all the good things about the sundowner with retractable gear and a constant speed prop.

[@gordonfeliciano4315]

Nice video about the Sundowner. Love all the room in that bird, but I would not be happy with the cruising speed. That's why I own a Tiger instead. My O-360 gives me a TAS of 139 knots and a lot more range with 51 gallons at 9 - 10 GPH. Speaking of which, I'm sorry we could't get together to do a flight while you were in Denver. Maybe we can do one the next time you're in town. Happy and safe flying!

[@waqarsyed6641]

Awesome dude... the worst part about owning an airplane is finding or having a good mechanic

[@rotten007pig]

Big Bend Community College in Washington is still flying a fleet of Musketeers, Sundowners and Bonanzas.

[@homeworxchannel4120]

Just was looking at flight radar and didn't know what one was. Saw 2 up by Moses operated by them.

[@JF-photos]

“Fun and sun” 😅

[@Mike-jq9jo]

I flight instructed in mostly Beech aircraft. The Sundowner isn’t a “ mini” Bonanza. It isn’t even close. It is a decent IFR platform for IRF instruction.

[@Ipadderx]

I have a Sierra. Just love it!!

[@soflaav8r]

The Sundowner/Musketeer/Sierra would have be an awesome airplane with an O-470 or an IO-520 in it.

[@WhereNerdyisCool]

Great video!

[@brianparkman8183]

He's wrong about being able to do the high performance endorsement in a Sierra. It only has 200HP. It has to be over 200 for the high performance.

[@jonthepilot6924]

Yes, sir. 14 CFR 61.31 (e)(f) says "more than 200 horsepower." That means 201 and up. www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/61.31

[@PilotPartner]

You are correct... Brandon was mistaken on that fact.

[@2507gs]

I was mistaken. I was just learning about the Sierra and I thought it had more HP than it does. My bad!

[@lcprivatepilot1969]

If we get a Sundowner, we will for sure be adding the power flow exhaust system for increased HP … if available for the Sundowner. Wheel pants would’ve been a nice option, but…

[@kennethparker1032]

More nice work Bobby!

[@rogersmart1766]

You said that correctly! It is a certificate, not a license. Ex Private pilot certificate . Good job

[@jonthepilot6924]

There's a school at my airport that has 3 Sundowners (1 is a parts donor). I've never actually flown one but I've heard and witnessed that they're pretty slow and don't seem to climb too well. I guess it's a cheap time builder. They're supposed to be very rugged and comfortable, at least. I wonder how easy it is to get parts when the local guys have a donor airplane on the field.

[@LibertyBanjo]

He didn't mention it but I installed a Powerflow and always netted 116 KTAS @8.5 GPH.

[@PilotPartner]

The powerflow was an awesome addition. We just got an engine monitor installed, but the fuel flow isn't hooked up right yet, so we haven't been able to get a good read on the actual fuel flow. I can believe 8.5 GPH, but on average I am seeing a little higher with Climb, etc. But she is a great airplane and it is clear that you and the owner after you took really good care of her. She was (and still is), super clean and well taken care of!

[@2507gs]

Thanks for taking such good care of her! I actually did mention the PowerFlow in the interview but it got cut. She flies great and we have not had too many difficulties. We did have to remove the Century AP after several attempts to fix it. Hopefully TruTrack will come up with a solution at some point. Since we bought it we installed the GTN650 and the CGR-30P Engine monitor. I never flew a Sundowner before this one but when Ken flew it down, I jumped right in and we went around the pattern a few times. I didn't have any issues landing it at all after getting some tips from him (he has a few hundred hours in the type). The more we get into the plane the more we can tell it was well cared for. Our A/P went through most of everything firewall forward and it is immaculate.

[@LibertyBanjo]

@@2507gs Be sure to join the Beech Aero Club. Glad to see you dropped some coin on this girl, she deserves some nice upgrades. Also, be sure to lean on the ground while taxi, keeps everything clean. For landing, no need to go to full rich from cruise. Just leave her alone and apply rich if go around is needed or on very short final, then lean again once safely off the runway The carb was re-jeted for the Powerflow as it uses air and fuel during normal ops, except during cruise when it is super efficient.

[@javierferrer4634]

Great information, thank you for sharing!

[@pilotreefer2930]

Awesome job. Consider a review on N2155U when you are in the north east.

[@williameudy6615]

Good video with a bad title the sundowner is a very nice airplane and it is clearly a Beechcraft but it is actually an ANTI-bonanza. It is slow and stable, forgiving of inexperienced pilots (but easily overloaded) - a very pedestrian approach to the single-engine airplane. Bonanzas, on the other hand are very fast retractables, especially when going downhill, they’re a bit squirrelly and will quickly kill an inexperienced pilot for making a comparatively small mistake. However it’s capable of getting off the ground and flying with almost any load you can get the door closed on without being grossly negligent on a hot day at high altitude.

[@WillBravoNotEvil]

William Eudy Can you give an example or two? My uncle bought his V-35 new, flew it a couple of times a week for 30+ years, no incidents. But I'm well aware of the "Dr. killer" epithet. I'd love some insight from someone who knows what they're talking about. (I only flew with him once when I was 13. It was like magic)

[@williameudy6615]

William Bravo this article sites a few examples; www.google.com/amp/s/generalaviationnews.com/2017/03/29/the-doctor-killer/amp/ I just scanned this but didn’t read it carefully. If you google “Fatal accidents Bonanza”. You’ll get a page full. The most famous case is the crash in which Buddy Holly, Richie Valens and the Big Bopper lost his life. The early model V-Tail models gained speed rapidly if the nose got down. In a matter of seconds you could exceed Vne an when the pilot hauled back on the yoke the empennage and/or wing spar would fail. There were ADs on both.

[@RaysDad]

Usually cheaper than Cherokee or 172, more comfortable and better built. Drawbacks are that it's a slightly slower cruiser, and engine parts for the Continental 4-banger can be hard to find.

[@jumpinjack1]

this has a lycoming 360

[@RaysDad]

@@jumpinjack1 thanks for the correction. My only experience is with a basic Musketeer with the IO-346-A.

[@rohnashley6726]

I use to own N832KT same color got it from KSU

[@bigmoecosmo8232]

Reminds me of the Piper 180 that I used to fly.

[@cavsh00ter]

Man I need to get back down to Central Texas

[@gewglesux]

You sound like me.... I'm in NY but wishing i was anyplace else.. Great place to make money but thats about it.

[@thetruth8206]

I noticed you were keep pulling the safety belt away from your neck. I had the same problem and finally I installed a double shoulder hardness

[@BudRaymond]

Nice landing!!!

[@davidmotter5140]

I have put a few hours on a sundowner in martinsburg wva and really liked it

[@chetmyers7041]

11:49 Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, fiddle with stuff in cockpit. Perhaps you were still rolling to a stop when you called "holding short, ready for departure," thus you hadn't truly cleared the cockpit and closed your window. 2500 hours here flying MSFS v0.07 on Tandy TRS-79.

[@davecat1458]

High performance rating requires 200+ HP.

[@johncavanagh1000]

A fair comparison to The Sundowner would be a Piper Archer which is 15 knots faster with the same horsepower, even a Cessna 172 with only 150 horsepower is 5 knots faster and burns two gallons an hour less fuel! I have about 10 hours Sundowner, nice ride but a real slug!

[@DD-Aerial-Photography]

Great video

[@patzotti1]

I notice your check list and was wondering were you got it and if you like it.

[@billwood4182]

Nice Video. Well Done !

[@Flying4Film]

For some reason I never felt comfortable with flying the Sundowner. They always looked cool to me though.

[@scotabot7826]

How come? They are built like tanks. A stronger airframe than the PA-28 series. If I were in the market now, I would be looking for a clean Sundowner, long before I would be looking for a clean PA-28. That's for sure. There is more meat in the airframe where it counts and needs to be.!

[@throughmyeyes9940]

always thought the Sundowner had a high stall speed

[@jorgegregoratti]

Great video!!!!!

[@zap2002]

Good honest airplane. Its built like a tank. Add a powerflow exhaust for a speed increase.

[@jumpinjack1]

Would not recommend a powerflow exhaust, Sundowner + powerflow = very minimal speed, higher maint. and much lighter wallet.

[@FlyingDoodles]

Actually this one does have the power flow he mentioned it in the interview but I didn’t put that part in the final release.

[@pshattuck1]

May I ask what you paid for it and in what year you purchased it?

[@N98858]

I took my primary training in a Beech Sundowner... N812Y, time well spent!

[@gmcjetpilot]

Do you want a plane with the word downer in it? Kidding. Well-built plane just slow for 180. Three wheel pants would do wonders for its speed.

[@cpurickyahoo]

The gear was pretty well faired. Plus the bonded skin construction eliminated a lot of rivets. I think the slower speed of the Sundowner was mainly related to its roomy cabin cross-section.

[@gmcjetpilot]

@@cpurickyahoo Great points, but those round black donuts hanging out would do at least 5 to 10 mph better with pants. Gear trailing link is better than Olio struts or fixed spring gear legs, but it's harder to put wheel pants on that design.

[@LibertyBanjo]

Its a tradeoff for a much taller, wider, more comfortable cabin with 2 doors, and baggage area that can hold 270 lb.

[@cpurickyahoo]

@@gmcjetpilot Probably not as much as you would think. The struts are faired, and the mains have hubcaps. Logically, these structures must have a bigger payoff than their own weight or they wouldn't have been included.

[@gmcjetpilot]

@@cpurickyahoo Probably more than you think. This debate has already been decided by aerodynamics. Weight would be negligible for wheel pants. The coefficient of drag for bare wheels (even w/ hub caps) and suspension vs. faired wheels is a known. The drag reduction is a function of speed as well. Someone might argue it's already somewhat of a slow aircraft, therefore wheel pants don't have as much benefit as on a faster aircraft. However I built two Van's Aircraft RV kit planes. Every little bit of drag reduction helps. Would +6 mph make a difference on a Sundowner? Yes maybe. If you're just building hours, not flying long cross countries or very many hours, the slower speed doesn't make a big difference. It is moot debate, because I don't think any wheel pants exist for this aircraft or practical due to the design of the gear and suspension. The cost to design, manufacturer and get an STC for wheel pants on a small fleet, makes it not warranted as a business. Bare wheels have advantages of easier pre-flight inspection and maintenance. BTW my rv-7 taildragger with fixed gear cruises that about 195 mph tops out about 210 mph with the same 180hp engine. The main gear and wheels are very well fared in needless to say. Yeah, Without those gear and wheel fairings it probably would be about 12 to 15 miles an hour slower.

[@RaceMentally]

Lol bonanza has flaps down so he doesn’t run you over lol

[@mikercflyer7383]

He is close enough to Josh of aviation101 were they could collaborate .

[@2507gs]

Josh is a friend of mine. He actually did the checkout for me on this plane for insurance.

[@mikercflyer7383]

@@2507gs Very cool

[@scotabot7826]

Yuck Yuck Yuck. Smartest thing that kid did was to change his screen name. I will give him credit for that though.

[@kellencomrie303]

My club has got sundowner 836kt up in northern Washington state.

[@robingermon4071]

Its a pity you didn't flare the Beech in the landing correctly rather then flying it on with the 3 wheels.I have flow this aircraft quite a bit.Rather have a Cherokee with an 0360 engine. The PA28 can handle 4okt winds and also behaves well in tough rough cross country conditions.The beech tends to wag its tail.The aeroplanes is also to heavy for what it is.

[@garymyers6638]

It looked to me like a guy who hadn't done his pre flight in a while. Who's your back seater?

[@ajonesieee3691]

Hey I live in austin texas, what is the name of the flying group? And is there a way to contact him about potentially joining? Thanks!

[@AClark-gs5gl]

We are currently seeking a 180-H.P. Sundowner and wondering if anyone here has any knowledge as to how many knots are gained if equipped with wheel-pants? Thank you very much!

[@ellonysman]

Atlanta? Did someonesecretl6 head down to the comiCon?🤘

[@sanfranciscobay]

How close are two airplanes flying in formation allowed to each other?

[@austinformedude]

Just don't touch or trade paint :P

[@jimconnoy6133]

I used to fly a Sundowner until the FBO sold it. I wasn't happy

[@dpsschafer]

Jim Connoy did you give them a piece of your mind?

[@jimconnoy6133]

@@dpsschafer they eventually got a newer one plus a Beech Sierra. Started doing my commercial in the Sierra.

[@tapscreations200]

interested more about how your club operates, interested in starting a similar club at KY8 can you send me more information

[@tow.JanWinnicki]

A good alternative to Cherokee but calling it a mini Bonanza is a bit of a stretch. Speed-wise, this is a real Downer. A Bonanza will do 165kts at 12-13 gph which is 50% faster! It would be like comparing a Mazda Miata to a Ferrari 458 and saying Miata is a bit of a slower sports car alternative to Ferrari.

[@vconnor]

Do you have to throw shit on people? He’s happy and to him it’s as good as having a Ferrari.

[@scotabot7826]

I thinks it's meant more for the styling, wonderful quality construction, and overall superior built airframe, than the numbers difference. Most people realize this, it seems.

[@A1soldiersaint]

There is a reason the musketeer and Sundowner are cheap... No one wants that dog! Slow aircraft, expensive parts, high fuel consumption for the engine, lower gross than 172, and less than forgiving characteristics. BUT, flying is better than not flying. Also, AWESOME initiative to start a flying club!!!! Cudos! The flying club I am part of recently obtained a fun tailwheel aircraft, so I am looking forward to getting my tw rating.

[@jeromes5141]

Question to all. How is a club more cheaper than rental? I'm up upstate. condair is about $4300 to be a member and about $80 a month for dues. Theres this this rental 172 that's $130/hr at another location. You rent when you want to fly so how is a club cheaper when u have to pay even when you dont or csnt fly?

[@DIYJunkie369]

That $4300 should be a share that you own and can sell later. So you have the $80 monthly fee that you have to pay each month even if not flying, this is similar to ownership. Even if you didn't fly, you would have to pay for hanger, insurance, registration, and annual. There should be a per hour rate to take the plane up that covers engine reserve, oil, and fuel. Since you didn't list one, I am going to assume $75/hr. So if you fly one hour a month, the cost would be $155/hr. In this case not worth it. However, flying just two hours a month would cut your per hour cost to $115/hr. I don't include the $4300, because it is a one time expense that some clubs let you sell when you leave. If they don't, I would look for a different club or a lower initial fee, they can't just refund it though since usually this covers purchase of the aircraft even though they already have one. At only two hours a month, it would take 23 years to cover the initial fee with the $15 savings. I fly about 5 hours a month, which would make the cost $91/hr in this case. I could save the $4300 in just 9 years if not able to recoup my cost upon leaving. Also, while renting you will usually get charged a minimum flight time if you have the aircraft for a 24 hour period. So, if I take a four day trip, I am charged 3 hours a day no matter if I fly that time or not. Some clubs do not do this since their mission maybe overnight trips rather than trying to focus on maximizing training hours like an FBO would. The FBO charges that time to make up for their lost rental revenue while you take that overnight business trip or fly the family to Gaston's for fly fishing and the plane is just sitting on the ground.

[@2507gs]

If I fly 5 hours per month and get fuel at a cheaper airport (eg. not at a Class C or larger) I can fly for less then $100/hr. That very reasonable for a well equipped 4 place. If you only fly 1 or 2 hours per month it may not be worth it.

[@DraGon-cg6ge]

Musketeer?