FlyWire On the Road Osh23: The Bonanza Wedge

[@biffer24]

Wow mate, enlightening. Love Kreider (?)'s hand motion demo of "what it will do." Your extreme knowhow once again shines as you real-time a scenario Scotty. Spun Out!

[@kinikinrd]

I believe this idea started in WW2 with the Corsair. There's a interesting story in Air and Space magazine about a little tab like that that prevented one wing stalling before the other.

[@tomdchi12]

I find this fascinating so it’s great to hear it directly from the person who developed it. Definitely going back and rewatch the video with the tufting.

[@Justwantahover]

It's a tuft job designing planes.

[@Kiwi0Six]

Thanks! I appreciated your tufting video on the wedge, and it’s great to hear the history of it here!

[@AC-jk8wq]

I always wondered what that was for… thank you for the insight! 😀

[@peterbrown6224]

Fascinating interview, thank you both.

[@wayneschenk5512]

Really liked this interaction very helpful on understanding what’s happening.

[@a8337z]

That's great Scott, I get questions about mine often. Thanks for the video.

[@FutureSystem738]

Thanks, fabulous stuff, great interview and very well done to both of you.

[@55dwack]

I flew a B36-TC in the late 80’s for a coal company. I used to get questions from line guys and others on what that was for. Smart alec answer was “shelf for coffee while pre-flighting”. Great flying aircraft.

[@zappatx]

We need Trump and clean Wyoming COAL to regain strength!

[@nancychace8619]

Thank you for sharing. Nice video.

[@KDubz-y6u]

Great Video Gunny.

[@pj61114]

This is very exciting for me to see. Learning about stall/spin from, Blanco Lerio, you and Probable Cause this appears to be a Great idea. I wonder if Vans Aircraft would benefit from this. If so it could become more mainstream. I watched EAA Airventure via their website all last week. EAA Radio, Afternoon Airshows , Night Airshow & Theatre in the Woods. I am a member and attended this for 30 years driving up from Rockford IL. Thank you for posting from Oshkosh. I am not a pilot just love looking up at planes. Love your channel. Aviation KZbin is what I do in retirement. Its like Oshkosh all year round. So sad to see hear about the T6 Stall/Spin over Lake Winnebago. I saw her interview on EAA Radio last week. She was promoting the memory of the WW2 Woman’s Army Air Corps because the original members are gone or can’t make the trip anymore. Having seen her interview makes it harder to realize. Juan Brown did an excellent review of that with the help of your exceptional very calm demonstration.

[@Justwantahover]

I reckon it would be useful on tight turns near the ground when one wing stalls. Maybe it could be possible to get out of that situation if you have the wedge system (and are lucky enough).

[@GlideYNRG]

That was my first thought Scott, how applicable could this be to other aircraft? Thank you for a fascinating insight and interview.

[@blakechinn5792]

Here I was ready to write checks off the shelf. it would be cool if it was applicable to other planes.

[@zappatx]

I'm not even a pilot (yet) and found this fascinating!! Speaking of Beech - why not have a Oshkosh in Kansas?? Salina has a 1400 Ft runway and great indoor parking or Wichita which is the home of so much innovation.

[@PacificAirwave144]

They need to experiment with leading edge slats just over outbbond of the ailerons. Yeah, full length slats have some benefit but effective ailerons after the 'ah-curd' would be good too.

[@jhaedtler]

I always thought it was a place to put your coffee cup when doing your walk around!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

a bit more sophisticated than that.

[@FutureSystem738]

@@FlyWirescottperdueLOL :-) Even so, it’s providing dual functionality 😂

[@Henry-vb4hq]

I'm disappointed I was unable to connect with you at Oshkosh. Your presence was stealthy!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

It was a blur. Didn’t get to do much this time. Going to do better next year.

[@Justwantahover]

Any mention of the device at the tip? Like a small wall over the leading edge region. Does that come with the wedge or is it an extra add on?

[@eugeneweaver3199]

Nice!

[@MrZrryan2]

A very interesting discussion... The outboard section of the leading edge on Cirrus had (still does?) a cuff that serves same purpose. The Glastar, I believe, had one big strategically placed vortex generator/wing fence that served the same purpose. I'm sure there are others. But the point here that strikes me most is how ODD that we don't have simple retrofit kits for just about every GA airplane to make them more resistant to spinning?? I think it is probably because INTENTIONAL spins at altitude are so rare. And, UNintentional ones, especially the ones that happen as you turn from base to final would still be fatal, with or without this device? (not enough room to recover from the stall whether she resists spinning or not).

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Worth figuring out if it would work. At least I think so

[@BonanzaBart]

Great interview. Question: So is it safe to assume that a pre-1984 A36 (that came from factory with a IO-520 and does not have the wedge) but was later upgraded to a 550 would not recover from spin as well as prior to engine upgrade since the wedge is not retrofittable? If so, I wonder how the STC got around this issue.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I think it is safe to say that. There was no STC. The factory modified the TCDS.

[@BonanzaBart]

@@FlyWirescottperdue My reference to the STC is for the aftermarket conversion. D’Shannon has the STC for the conversion. Question is how the FAA approved the STC if the converted airplane no longer meets the spin recovery.

[@donniecole3472]

Much better aromatic airplane before the wedge. I flew aerobics in The aromatic bonanza before the wedge. 1976-1979

[@WarblesOnALot]

G'day Scott, Yay Team ! That was kinda fascinating...1979 was an interesting time - over here there was an Avgas Crisis, I was a Detailer/Assembler at Ansett General Aviation, they had the Oz Agencies for Piper and Aerospatiale...; and I got the DCM Award (Don't Come on Monday...) from there when they had 35 unsold New Pipers tied down on the Apron, and people were flying out and stranding themselves at Regional Airports which had already run out of Motion Lotion. I share the sense of disappointment that those Vortex Generators weren't made mandatory..., the same happened to my SunFoil idea - I posted DIY Construction Videos, and it's taken 12 years to see maybe 60 Copycat Samizdat DIY versions getting around the town. The problem is that It Looks DIFFERENT...; And the CitiZen Sheeples HATE to look even remotely Not Normal. I have a Playlist dedicated to SunFoils, and I counted 5 in the Carpark of a Hospital 200 miles from here, last year - so at least they're spreading, albeit slowly. To get an actual Lifesaving New Idea to be mandated requires being humble while being rude and a bit ruthless... When I couldn't get the Industry Leader to adopt my method of Not Aerotowing Rogallos into the Ground beside the Runway, politely ; I wrote to the Director of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, sending my Crash-Analysis of the GuRu killing a Solicitor, whom I helped rescuscitate but he only lasted 3 days - along with my results from 500 illegally conducted Aerotows, and offering to testify as an Expert Witness after the next Fatal Aerotow. It took 5 months for my method to become "Mandatory Industry Standard for all Aerotowing TRAINING Operations..." And the Loophole for Big Heroes who knew better ensured that the next one to be towed to death on Takeoff, in the time-honoured old fashioned way, was the President of thd Canowindra Hang Gliding Club, and so, since about 1998 if an Ultralight tows a Hang Glider in Oz they get to do it my way. It saves 10 Take-off Crashes per year, being 1 Fatal, 2 high Quadriplegiacs, 3 Paraplegiacs in Wheelchairs & 4 more Fractured Yuppies too broken to pay Taxes for 3 months to 2 years... Centrelink told me I'm the most productive Mad Scientist they have listed for the Nutter's Pension (!) ; I posted a Video telling the story, look for "Lockout Index" in my Aeroplanology Playlist. So, it CAN be done, one can force the Beaurocracy and Industry to do the Right Thing...; but you will have to be ruthlessly rude, and if only 2 people die along the way then, "... you'll be a better man than me, Gunga-Din !". How rude are you prepared to be, is the question...; and that's all your Choice ! Such is life, Have a good one. ;-p Ciao !

[@FutureSystem738]

I was doing advanced flying training instruction (and also still some significant ab-initio training then), remember that avgas crisis very well was indeed. We were doing even dual circuit training with the instructor leaning the mixture on downwind and the reduction in fuel burn was actually quite significant, but an additional benefit was much less spark plug fouling. I was based at Archerfield. Anyway, no student ever went through with me without getting substantial spin theory training followed by some practice incipient spin recovery from a very safe altitude, even though that wasn’t actually in the required syllabus. It’s a shame that so many pilots these days have never seen a spin, and have little if any idea how to recover, likely a huge factor with the recent tragic T6 crash out of Oshkosh. Obviously avoidance of spins is critical, but knowing exactly what to do for recovery is arguably equally important.

[@WarblesOnALot]

@@FutureSystem738 G'day, Thanks ! Yeah, lack of Fuel does horrible things to the Levitation Industry...(!). I went from AGA's Piper Agency to selling Ink-Drawings of Aeroplanes in the Royal Aero Club Bar at Bankstown, to make the Rent, Fuel, Hamburgers and Cigarette costs - for a month (!) ; before starting with Helicopter Promotions Pty Ltd, selling Joyride Tickets for Rosemary Arnold-Harris, with an Enstrom F-28c...; and not many people can say that they literally Barnstormed NSW in a Helicopter In late '79...(!). But, we could only get sufficient Avgas to be able to fly 30 Hours per month... At $185/Hr Charter Rate, while paying $90/Hr Dry to lease the machine, with $30/hr for Fuel...; so 30 hours per month was right on our Break-Even point. And the Owner of VH-IYR was also barely breaking even on his $150,000 Investment, while Bank Interest was 10% or so... And there was work in the Sydney Basin for 45 Choppers being spread around the 40 which were available there, then. So when John Negus (a Pharmacist in Western Sydney..., sold IYR to go Mustering in Qld, he put his money in the Bank and made 15 Grand annually with no more hassles rather than worrying while trying to break even... And meanwhile we couldn't find another Whirlybirdie to lease..., and I don't think Rosemary ever tried to reboot her Aviation Career... So I tried selling Insurance, at first, and then expensive HiFi (Bang & Oluffson) ; and after that went Nursing instead - where I got paid to not lie to anybody, kinda thing...! Which is rather different to selling bright and shiny Landfill, or a Bet which the Punter has to crash, burn, lose, or die - to win (lol) ! Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !

[@Justwantahover]

What would happen if you take off in ground effect while not going fast enough? Will the plane still plunge to the ground like a brick (like in a lot of videos)? Like a land vehicle jumping off a ramp. 😆

[@mikewaterfield3599]

where the heck did you guys tie up? I had my Bo in vintage row 74.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Row 540 or something like that.

[@mikewaterfield3599]

@@FlyWirescottperdue glad you made it, I’m just glad we got in early for once. I’ll look for you next year.

[@SamLeHardy]

Does the cuffed wing on Cirrus aircraft do the same? They apparently took that from NASA also.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

It does make it departure resistant. But not as effectively as this wedge. Plus it prolongs spin recovery.

[@Andre.D550]

😎

[@johnfitzpatrick2469]

G,day Scott from Sydney Australia. It was unclear: the position of the wedge on the leading edge was established by "tuffs" and then service bulletins of measurement? 🛩️👆

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

An iterative flight test process determined the location of the wedge for each airplane type. That location and orientation was reflected in the Service Bulletin and Kit for the 33C airplanes. The others were installed at the factory.

[@tylerdurden2644]

Why has no one covered the accidents there?

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I'm actually going to cover the T6 next.

[@tylerdurden2644]

@@FlyWirescottperdue Mid air is the one not being covered. One would think there was video.

[@mikebeard8505]

Remove head from darkness

[@lutomson3496]

never mentioned the helicopter crash, nor the spin crash of the AT-6 which he already addressed in a past video

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

This video was filmed on Monday and it was only on this topic. relax.

[@stay_at_home_astronaut]

Coffee cup holder.