Folding Ideas - Depression Quest

S4E5 - Depression Quest
Originally uploaded September 4, 2014

[@michellebrowne9100]

I really appreciate Depression Quest for one reason - it convinced my partner to get help for his mental health issues, which helped me overcome my triggers around counsellors and doctors enough to get help, too - and a few years later, our lives are so much better. Thank you, Zoe Quinn, because your game helped two people a lot - and I didn't even play it!

[@AceOnBase1]

How did it end up? Are you still together?

[@michellebrowne9100]

We're married with a baby! And a wife! (Poly) his MH has definitely improved.

[@ThumpingThromnambular]

@@michellebrowne9100 wow, sounds really stable

[@ThaliaLemon]

Did anyone else feel super compelled to write a mod for skyrim where you can probe the jarl of whiterun for the kinky details of his private life after watching this video???

[@paulbottomley42]

New quest idea: "I lost my buttplug in a nearby tomb. No, do NOT ask what I was doing there with it. Go retrieve it, it's my favourite one"

[@agihammerthief8953]

There's probably a mod for that.

[@user-sl6gn1ss8p]

so, is the mod done?

[@sososo3906]

@@paulbottomley42 the only story that is stronger for been in a tomb

[@gregvs.theworld451]

Did anyone else feel super compelled to write a mod for skyrim where you can probe the jarl of whiterun ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶k̶i̶n̶k̶y̶ ̶d̶e̶t̶a̶i̶l̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶p̶r̶i̶v̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶f̶e̶ after watching this video??? Yes, yes I did.

[@edgarallenhoe3518]

Wow, that's exactly what executive dysfunction is-- the knowledge of what you should be doing, but with an invisible barrier between you and the task that doesn't make logical sense and serves to magnify the task, making it seem large and impossible while reminding you how easy it's supposed to be.

[@opencabinets]

I played the game because of this video and I was so surprised with how much it resonated with me. I really thought I was just whiny or complaining too much. I beat myself up over being "lazy" and not wanting to do anything but sit in static. It opened my eyes and while I can't really get professional help right now I want to get better I really do.

[@Sultan-wj3gp]

Same here. Hope you will get better.

[@8Rincewind]

Hey, how have the past 3 years been?

[@opencabinets]

@@8Rincewind I have dropped out of college and gotten therapy. I'm definitely better than I was and I actually went back and played the game a few weeks ago I got the good ending :)

[@8Rincewind]

@@opencabinets good for you, keep at it. This pandemic is a bit of a drain on my mental health (as is the case for lots of people). But in another 3 years we'll be able to look back and see how we survived and came through the other end.

[@OverdramaticAngel]

​@@8Rincewind It's been 2 years since this comment and I hope you're both doing better.

[@Stray7]

So I went and played this on the suggestion of this video. And...yeah. This has been my struggle. It is really a very accurate depiction of what it's like, and the choices that feel like they shouldn't be hard for everyone else but are monumental for me.

[@mandaloriancrusader3746]

That was the way it was for me the first time I played when I made all my choices as I would IRL, and I ended up in the worst possible state. On the second playthrough, I kind of forgot that this was about depression and tried to make choices that would lead to the best possible situation; It turned into a game for me again. It felt weird making choices that I would not make but that I recognized helped the character in the game. I think this game has helped me come to terms with the fact that I can't deal with this mental illness alone.

[@viktorberzinsky4781]

Yeah. Sort of works similarly for anxiety.

[@Firestar4041]

Sounds honestly interesting. **one visit to steam and google later** And one view on the reviews, has me hating humanity again. god damn it, internet.

[@aturchomicz821]

Jesus...

[@danielblair5970]

I just played this, and after making the same choices I'm currently in the process of making myself and reading the ending, I nearly cried. It's the first game where I truly identified with a character that was supposed to be depressed, and the way you see them recover made me feel overwhelmingly hopeful.

[@arigadatred5395]

I played depression quest because of this video. It's amazing how it puts you both outside and inside yourself. It made me think about my own life, but it was also one of those things like "Would you say that insult, that derisive thing, to a friend? Would you say it to anyone but yourself? Would you tell a friend that they don't need or deserve therapy?" It doesn't always make the choices clear, but it makes the benefits of therapy and medication clear. And when I managed to make the protagonist feel happiness and hope, it made me feel happy and hopeful, in a way few other things have recently. The bleeding-hearts and the artists make their stand...

[@BrotherAlpha]

I honestly don't understand how anyone can seriously say this isn't a video game. It is a text adventure, as you point out. Those are one of the earliest genres of video games.

[@BrotherAlpha]

strelokgunslinger "Although don't let me from stopping you or maybe others from liking it." How magnanimous of you. However, I can turn this around and point out that it won awards, many people who do suffer from depression praised it, and its simple nature is hardly a fault, so if you don't like it, there's something wrong with you.

[@clairestark9024]

+BrotherAlpha I must admit it's defiantly a game, it's just not a very good one. Which too me seemed a more obvious criticism.

[@BrotherAlpha]

Whatsit Tooya "This has a small tree of decisions, not all of which you can even pick." Oh my god, talk about missing the point. Clearly you are way too fucking stupid to deal with.

[@clairestark9024]

+BrotherAlpha I'm pretty sure he gets it he's definitely trolling you, the idea is because she's depressed it limits her ability to do things. But it's still a game flaw ironically the video producer has explained why this isnt an excuse kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6m5aZp3fNKVqs0

[@BrotherAlpha]

*****"I'm pretty sure he gets it he's definitely trolling" I don't know. I was "debating" him on another threat and he's very stupid.

[@KaiseaWings]

Did a quick run through. It's a very impressive game. I recognise a lot of the anxious feedback symptoms and wanting to crawl under the blankets. I got the 'good' ending because I'm actually fairly good at communicating my own feelings, even if I'm not great at reading other people.

[@catiseith]

I was playing recently Persona 4, an JRPG about Japanese High School students dealing with a supernatural murder (and saving others from the same fate). One of the things is that your character is still a kid, and needs to dedicate time to improve himself. Otherwise, some dialog options or actions can't be taken, as they instead tell you something like "you don't have enough *courage* ", and you are forced to choose a different option. It's an effective way of communicating that point of life when you are aware enough to know all the options in front of you, but you aren't mature enough to choose the ones that you know are the best.

[@aturchomicz821]

That sounds like Hard Anti Youth Propaganda wtf

[@falinost]

@@aturchomicz821 The game is definitely not preaching anti-youth messages, but the protagonists do butt up against some realistic conflicts in which adults use their authority against the teenage protagonists. It's not treated as something that is acceptable and appropriate though, rather as an injustice and/or an obstacle the protagonists have to overcome. It has teenagers getting involved in very adult situations (hunting a serial killer), that the adults in the game (understandably) don't want them involved in. The game has themes of self-improvement and the importance of community, and ties the RPG power-system into supporting those themes. The overall conflict of the game is whether you (and your teenage companions) can avert a disaster that the adults are either unwilling or incapable of handling. Persona 5, however has themes of abuse of power, which can express as villain adults wielding their authority as adults against teenagers without the means or resources to defend themselves, which drives the protagonists to become supernatural vigilantes. Highly recommend both games.

[@travdump209]

I couldn't get past the first choice. I choked, and I felt scarily reminded of my life. This is familiar to me, this IS me, and it makes me feel even more hopeless. God, I want people to play this. But it's been damned by controversy.

[@sigh824]

Trav if it helps I'm seriously considering playing it now

[@GrnAzn]

I hope you are doing okay, friend.

[@kinokochan]

I feel you there. The intent was for this game to offer an experience, which it did. Sadly, art and artists' intent are often painted over or misinterpreted when public opinion is fiercely reactive. Stay strong. x

[@noonlemur]

at the start of the game there's a warning advising people with actual depression not to play....i wish i'd taken it seriously. i hope you are doing alright.

[@Ed-tc2pg]

It a hell of a thing when the person bring awareness to something is evil. Do you buy the product to learn more while supporting a evil person or do you avoid supporting an evil person while also not learning more? If someone is honestly interested for the price of a few video-games they could take psychology 101. However to play devils advocate, do you buy the product to fill a humanity's requirement supporting unfair inflated higher education costs or do you learn a trade and chose to not fully understand all the nuances of mental health illness. If someone cares and wants to know they will seek answers, the simple fact is most people could care less. We are all selfish, it's hard wired into our dna.

[@dorriley3954]

"every video game is a box" YOURE a box

[@anne-zh2kd]

The fact that anyone could think zoe quinn would sleep with people to get good reviews for A FREE GAME...just wtf

[@Epoch615]

It's not that Quinn tried to get good reviews for the game, it was that her sleeping with people could affect their opinions. Would they have given a good review if she hadn't slept with them? Would the game have won awards if she hadn't had a personal relationship with those involved? After I played the game, absolutely not. Because it was garbage. I've suffered from depression for decades and the game was at best insulting and at worst deliberately misrepresenting depression as a disorder.

[@anne-zh2kd]

I've suffered from depression for ages as well and I think it is a really solid game. Who Zoe Quinn slept with is none of our business. Though I'm not sure if I believe her toxic boyfriend. If journalists wrote better reviews because they had a sexual relationship with her, then that is on them. Not her. They can be called disgusting sluts by assholes online. But apparently they are not to be held to any standards of integrity. She had no obligation THEY did. THEY should have chosen not to sleep with her then-in this fantasy where any of that actually happened. OF COURSE it would have won awards. It's a good game. And didn't the people she "slept" not even write about her game? GamerGate is about misogyny, pure and simple. If this was a male developer and female journos, the WOMEN would STILL be targeted. Just think about and FEEL within yourself without denial how you would feel if the genders were reversed. Just be brave and try.

[@davidd854]

Man I really hate feminists. You people are so far upside your own ass. You can tell by the fact that the primary way of addressing your opponents is namecalling. Of course your opponents include all men who don't agree with you, or better said, subjugate their opinions to your ideology.

[@brucewayne79]

davidd854 Yeah because we know MRA’s never do anything like that.

[@longliverocknroll5]

@@davidd854 Yeah, how dare people accuse other people of abusing women while they *checks notes* go around abusing women. The only "opponents" to feminism are people so stuck up their own ass that they can't understand that people aren't born with identical levels of privilege.

[@aidanbrumsickle]

Great video! I bet that some of the same people who would criticize Zoe Quinn for using a tool for "beginners" / "non programmers" would congratulate Toby Fox on what he was able to do with Game Maker (Undertale).

[@jayrilla7336]

eh those guys hate undertale though

[@ItWasSaucerShaped]

Every single video game is basically just a glorified spreadsheet if you want to be that reductive, including Undertale.

[@Poketato]

JAY RILLA Yeah exactly, it's really more about games whose central conceit is based specifically on empathy. These people either don't have it or are so insecure and fragile that they've learned to bury it as a defense mechanism and thus instinctively lash out at any piece of media which prizes or indeed demands it. So maybe Hotline Miami would be a better example of a similarly programming-non-intensive game that doesn't get shit on as much. Not that HM isn't designed explicitly with a message about the dehumanizing potential of violent video games, but it certainly isn't quite as upfront about it and can easily be played as just a straight hyperviolent neon-soaked bulletgasm.

[@Poketato]

Deborah Meltrozo thing is, Undertale is an *RPG* instead of a *text adventure* FTFY

[@saffles.]

@Deborah Is the issue that it's a text adventure, or that it's a text adventure with a mouse interface instead of a keyboard one?

[@AspelShuyin]

I just realized that sometimes Shadowrun Returns feels like Depression Quest. It's frustrating to see a greyed out "Talk your way out of the problem [Etiquette: Street]" as an option.

[@magentasound_]

O shit, I recognize you from the errant signal comment section, hi

[@AspelShuyin]

I'm from everywhere.

[@gsd4104]

This is actually fairly common in various RPG's and arises from their pen and paper origins. Certain scenarios allow for an efficient option of a skill check. You either do/don't meet the requirements to attempt it or you're left hanging on a chance from a roll in the game's internal mechanics to succeed.

[@AspelShuyin]

I'm aware of that, I just meant specifically the way that Shadowrun Returns will show you what you COULD ask, if you had a specific skill (which it can do by requiring trait benchmarks instead of just rolling).

[@kevinfredericks2335]

Agreed! So much of design is deciding what to show, and when. Choice paralysis sets in when too many easily substituted options appear at once, and anxiety occurs when too many potential decisions are considered.

[@red2121]

I played the game myself, and I'm not sure why so many people complain about it. It's free for anyone to play, it's not like anyone got robbed of their money.

[@russelljackson2818]

I think a lot of gamers are extremely insecure people looking for power fantasies. Anything that actively takes power away from them, even a simulation, has to be met with rage.

[@richardnoggin1526]

And a woman made it so that also had something to do with it

[@gamefan1353]

I played/went through a little bit of depression quest, but as someone who struggles with it, I just couldn't continue after a certain point. Part of it I think is the relationship presented in the game and the struggles to feel deserving of it and the fear of driving away your partner, as I am starting to see someone and it would be my first real relationship (if everything went well) and just the thought of losing that all already hurts

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

I feel like the game is made more to let people who do not have depression experience what it's like than for people with actual depression. If it helps people who have depression, that is good but I feel like the intent was more to spread empathy and understanding than creating a means of helping people with depression directly.

[@jdprettynails]

I played this games years ago and as a result sought medical help for my depression for the first time. Then fucking Gamergate happened. And as much as I want to think of this game as "the game that got me on the path to recovery", the stink of Gamergate still looms over it and I just feel sad.

[@incogneat0901]

The failure of depression quest is that nobody that doesn't already understand depression from first hand knowledge will appreciate the message or maybe even understand it. I don't see those people bothering to play the game. It is, however, a shame the amount of baggage that this piece of media has attached to it as a result of the frustration and angst within the hardcore gaming community. It can no longer exist on its own without also being a central profanity of the gamer gate cult.

[@irrevenant3]

For what it's worth, I haven't had any experience with depression and after I played Depression Quest I left feeling like I had the slightest taste of what it must be like. So I wouldn't say that you have to already understand depression to appreciate the game. I think it did a good job of conveying the experience to even those of us who aren't already conversant with depression.

[@QuikVidGuy]

At least (unless you deleted them) people aren't accusing you of sleeping with her, like they seem to want to do to every other person who likes this game

[@zackpumpkinhead8882]

Found footage recording of first vtuber in existence

[@catiseith]

While going through it I was mainly thinking: could this be recreated in a more visual manner? The mechanics are clear as day and there are plenty of games where dialogue options are greyed out too as result of player's choices.

[@8Rincewind]

I know this is an old comment, but I'm wondering, would more visuals really help? Isn't the point of the game that you're playing a depressed version of you and something similar to your life. Wouldn't visuals detract from that aspect?

[@phlegm_mucus]

@@8Rincewind It’s a classic quandary. A pretty subjective one. Do you prefer theater of the mind, or do you like to have your experiences dictated to you? I don’t think there’s a wrong answer, but I think that depression quest really does benefit from having a lack of defining visuals. It should in no way become a visual novel. But making it look better, that might not be out of the question.

[@merchantarthurn]

Well. This is one of those games that sounds super interesting that I wouldn't be able to play. Some things just hit to close to home (though I am on the road to recovery, reading about people in a place where I once was in detail can set off a short episode smh). The brain sucks >:-///

[@ianirwin9480]

And to think that this is the game that kicked off Gamergate...

[@killsalot78]

Well, what is depression quest really when you're cheating on your boyfriend with 5 different dudes, one of which is someone reviewing your game?

[@ianirwin9480]

Kinda irrelevant really. Gamergate was supposedly about unethical journalists but most people were mouthing off about Zoe Quinn and not the journo she was sleeping with

[@killsalot78]

@@ianirwin9480 I mean shes the developer, she can bear that responsibility too, bribing journos for good reviews is still bad. And im not saying she wasn't victimized or that people werent going too far. But literally there are two sides to this entire drama spiral and zoe quin didn't deserve being hit by the internet hate machine, she also wasn't the greatest human being at that time either. See there is a lot that can be said about toxic internet mentality that we still see today. But instead of talking about that, zoe and everyone else spun gamergate into the death of gamers. When the truth is that toxic mentality isn't from gamers, its actually the internet as a whole. And hindsight is 2020, but stooping to the trolls levels and fighting back with their same tactics wasnt the best move historically speaking.

[@ianirwin9480]

@@killsalot78 Ok so what's the name of the journalist who accepted bribes? You don't know without doing a google search. Everybody is just using her as a scapegoat. I'm not saying she's innocent, but she's not really the real problem; if journos are willing to give good reviews for some poontang, of course they'll accept thousands of dollars from EA for glowing reviews on their crappy games. When politicians are caught accepting bribes we blame the politician, not the person giving them the bribe. So why do we blame the game dev in this situation?

[@r31n0ut]

@@ianirwin9480 Nobody. it didn't happen. that shit was all made up, and it was public knowledge that it was all made up about 5 minutes after it happened. The dude never reviewed the game and who the hell even cares if Quinn was a good partner or not?

[@joeyjones4929]

I loved this game, I thought that the mechanic/metaphor of the strikethrough. It's pretty relatable, to know what you should be doing but to be incapable of doing it due to lack of will.

[@The_Punisher]

When does the game start?

[@astabaker9421]

Thanks for reminding to go play depression quest again. Hits different now that I'm actually struggling and not just on the cusp like I was when I played it last

[@littlelizzyann]

I hope it helped/helps. Personally, it will be a cold day in hell before I play it (I just can't deal with something with that much resonance with my life), but it's been really interesting reading the comments here about people's personal responses to it.

[@dtllmpn]

It's an interesting 'game', though it seems to be more of an educational tool than entertainment. I guess that to some people, a game must be entertaining to qualify as a good game.

[@victorbarraza4910]

oh, for sure it's educational. the game was never made to be "entertaining". I played it and let's say my I have a rather pintoresc psychiatric history, the game is pretty accurate. I'm ok now btw XD

[@QuikVidGuy]

"I guess that to some people, a game must be entertaining to qualify as a good game." like all?

[@stranger59]

I don't know, I think Suda 51 would disagree. I mean, I think overall he aims for fun, but when he wants you NOT to have fun... you know it. It's intentional.

[@LordZeebee]

Well those people are just wrong. Grave of the Fireflies feels absolutely horrible to watch, doesn't mean it's not a fantastic movie tho.

[@irrevenant3]

+Macaroni and Cliches "This War of Mine" begs to differ. IMO a good game should be interesting and enthralling. It needn't necessarily be entertaining, for the exact same reason as some truly great movies aren't entertaining.

[@6iaZkMagW7EFs]

I played the game; didn't like it. But I did like that it acknowledges the lack of choice for the depressed mind. I did like Ultra Business Tycoon III, though, another twine game.

[@Ptangmatik]

I like that D&D essentially has no limitations other than the systems the players and GM choose to impose.

[@biagiopetruccelli8389]

Classes. No limitations. D&D is basically tabletop Diablo, it has a coat of RP, but its nature is that of a miniature wargame. Everything in the character is about skills and how they perform in battle (well, not everything, but almost everything). As a system it doesn't promote RP, it promotes combat, and loot. Which is absolutely fine, i had great moments within D&D, even great RP, but there are many many many other (and arguably better) systems. I always advice to try as many as can, to find the right one. You might not even know you wanted something different until you try it.

[@Ptangmatik]

Fair point, I used "D&D" when I meant "pen and paper RPG" because I suppose those are pretty much synonymous to my mind (wrongly, I admit, but it's just how it's set up in my mind). I have looked through a few systems such as Discworld GURPS and Ten Candles, and there is a lot of good stuff out there. My point stands though that the GM can basically take or leave whatever rules they want from whatever systems and mix them together, as long as they OK that with their players, meaning that using pen and paper is wonderfully liberating (but time-consuming) compared to digital. (As an aside, regarding RP, I mix it up with my players, one even negotiated his way out of a fight with a bear this past Wednesday and I had good fun playing a bear (he cast speak with animals, and bears are quite simple gruff creatures with simple wants).) The combat aspect of 5th Ed. D&D is really well modelled, which naturally requires a lot of space in the book. Meanwhile, RP stuff is categorically nebulous as it relies on what the GM is willing to do, thus they can only offer story beat and characterization suggestions at most. The combat-RP balance in the game ultimately comes down to how the GM plays it. However, I would argue that although the template they give you is tabletop Diablo, there's nothing stopping anyone from picking and choosing from the mechanics and applying that to a sci-fi or 1950s noir setting or whatever, it again just depends how much work the GM's willing to put in.

[@biagiopetruccelli8389]

I absolutely agree, my only grief is that so often D&D is used as a placeholder for any tabletop RPG that it really hurts. It's true that anyone can bend any system in whatever they like, but D&D proposes a specific way to consume RPG, which is high-fantasy combat heavy with RP limited in the scenes when a ruler hands out to you your reward. Sure, more advanced player don't play that way, but it is a disservice to all the RP players out there that the mainstream idea of tabletop RPG is just D&D. I wish there was more awareness towards generic systems that let you time-dimension-travel like GURPS (which i'm happy you mentioned), or just other great genres that just are not as combat heavy, like horror settings (mainly Lovecraftian ones, zombies tend to be combat heavy anyway) or In Nomine or Vampires. They can all be combat heavy, but are not portrayed as the main way to go. All systems are tradeoffs, GURPS can be very rule-heavy for the average GM to handle, In Nomine can be too fuzzy if your players try to "cheat" the system, Vampire The Masquerade (or even Shadowrun i guess) can devolve in a bucket of dice-rolling extravaganza and so on. So, i guess, my point was that i wish it wasn't D&D the mind-go-to system when people think or talk about RPGs. By the way i wasn't nitpicking on you, i just enjoy talking about the subject!

[@Ptangmatik]

Hey, no offence taken (I have trouble expressing emotion coherently through text, if i came across as defensive it wasn't intentional), I enjoy talking about it too. I particularly wouldn't mind trying something Lovecraftian at some point, (have you heard of ten candles? Review here: www.shutupandsitdown.com/review-ten-candles/ ) A lot of systems do Lovecraft wrong (I'd personally do it wrong by leaving out all the overt and covert racism, hey hey) as there should really never be any way to attack Cthulu and I'd argue no way of even gaining meaningful progress in the fight against a Great Old One, which players can find dispiriting. Ten candles works well as a one shot thing; however, D&D allows progress, which leads to a more long-term game and better socialization around that between players (and me with them) Hey, I might as well ask: do you know of a decent multisession Lovecraft RPG system that doesn't lead to players popping a cap in the old fhtagn-botherer's hide?

[@biagiopetruccelli8389]

Ahaha no you didn't come off as being defensive at all, i was worried about myself coming off as a tad too aggressive :D Never heard of ten candles before, but i love ShutUpAndSitDown so i'll definitely check their review, thanks for the link! Lovecraft stuff, as well as horror themes in general, can be hard because they require more restrain from the usual wacky stuff that happens during the average play session. The wrong (or good i guess) joke can damage or even destroy a whole session, or undermine the menacing presence of a particular villain for good. Yeah that's a problem with the Old Gods theme as a whole, it's cool as hell when you read about it, but when you play within that world it sucks that you know you won't ever be able to win. It's something that doesn't go well with prolonged sessions, it should be consumed in specific story arcs, imho. That's what in my experience works best. (and i just realized you said the exact same thing about Ten Candles) I only played Lovecraft-inspired system with casual groups, so i really can't give you any meaningful advice. But if you want something that's both horror and more long-term i'd suggest a slightly different route, playing with themes like Voodoo and Cabala. They are grim, depressing, morally gray but not as hopeless as dealing with Old Gods stuff.

[@TheORIGINALOxymoron]

I wish this game was allowed to exist without the controversy surrounding its creator. I don't really agree with all of her actions, but it seems like a decent game with some good thought behind it. At the very least it's no worse than any other regular indie game. Phil Fish is a jerk and pretentious as all hell, but most people can still admit that Fez was good. I wonder why that is not being done, or even considered, in this case.

[@wilkobye9533]

what happened

[@fucktardickis]

Zoe Quinn conveniently slept with a number of people that helped get her game made/other in industry folks one of coincidentally reviewed her game. The game itself is actually alright given it's format and all, though many took it as the straw that broke the camels back and believed it to be the penultimate truth. Honestly non of that matters in comparison to the mountains of evidence towards Quinn's money scams and ability to maximise her personal profits on the backs of those who saw her to be the fucking online Notre-Dame-De-Libertey, They saw supporting Quinn as supporting modern feminism in video games and were, shall we say economically ransacked towards her favour. Not to mention she extorted several charities. In the end Zoe was someone who's likely history of abuse at a young age created a very broken manipulative person; also the kind of person who would make a game like depression quest.

[@wilkobye9533]

Fucktardickis that's very intersting thank you!

[@fucktardickis]

Actually to tell you the truth Phil is not really that bad, ive met some of his team mates from Kokoromi and mostly he is an over-stressing perfectionist and let's say "French Canadian" with his twitter manners. His biggest crimes are arguably him acting looking and making games like the most stereotypical D-bag "Indie-dev" which is why i think he get's so much heat, he lives it to the point of being an almost caricature(besides the fact that he made a movie which helped define what that looks like so kind of a self fulfilling prophecy here)

[@tuffy135ify]

essentially she is at the heart of #GamerGate. Based on the word of a butt hurt ex, a mass of guys on the Internet were riled up to harass Zoey Quinn, for getting decent reviews for a decent indies game allegedly she could have only earned by trading sexual favors for such renown. The attacks were taken to horrific extremes, and even targeted anyone who remotely "stood in their way".

[@laurataylor385]

Many text adventures DO let you wander around or do things in a variety of orders.

[@bobmiller3627]

"I HATE WOMEN!!! I mean...ETHICS IN GAME JOURNALISM!!!" *shakes a fist white fist at the screen

[@boneneedle3360]

Oh, you sad, pathetic racist. I almost pity you.

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

@@boneneedle3360 Do you think this person is being Racist to white people?

[@thehonorablereverendaddiso1943]

@@itcouldbelupus2842 Unironically and undeniably yes

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

@@thehonorablereverendaddiso1943 really? You think this comment is evoking the oppression of white people? Or have I misunderstood?

[@thehonorablereverendaddiso1943]

@@itcouldbelupus2842 I think it's racist. "White fist" denotes a specific race, mr. DARVO

[@andermachines2645]

Still amazing after all these years that this game caused such a shitshow among the "gaming community". I never really considered what the game itself was about, tbh, because I never heard about it outside the context of GG

[@sithdude2436]

Hmm, played the game and I have to say it's an exercise in frustration. Not because of the blocked out options, those are usually unrealistic choices. What annoys me is the lack of a middle ground. There's no testing the waters, no saying "I'm not fine right now but it'll pass and it's not something to worry about," only "I feel horrible" or "I'm fine". Perhaps it's just the abstraction of the game that gets me but it feels very black and white in a way that I don’t enjoy. As well, it feels like the protagonist is almost unaware of their behavior. Instead of noticing patterns in it and trying to either ignore or work around them, they act in a manner where these patterns are exacerbated. Ex. Waiting to call the therapist. "I'll do it tomorrow" is said completely unironically. No mention of just saying it to make their friend happy, the protagonist genuinely believes it. Also, at times it feels inconsistent just to make a point. The protagonist has incredible difficulty sharing their emotional state with their girlfriend for the whole game, but conveniently when the relationship shows some cracks they decide to act as pathetic as possible (I chose the option "say something to convince her to stay", by the way). It also doesn't grapple with some other questions. No matter how bad the protagonist's depression got, they never had even a little guilt over accepting a kitten they had to take care of. Which is very strange when they're so worried about a random dental problem. Also, the epilogue is very strangely worded it acts like the protagonist chose to not seek help, and chose to not take care of themselves, when I took the option that seemed best at every point. *the game* chose to not take care of the protagonist. I literally chose the option to do some of these things but it didn't work, there was no "refusal". It's just very odd coming from a neutral observing narrator. To be fair, I don’t have depression, but hopefully my opinion means something.

[@irrevenant3]

Have you considered doing a piece on the Stanley Parable? That would be awesome.

[@blanksymortimer4088]

the thing that I disagree with on a personal level is the act of constraining player agency as games are often used as a coping mechanism for people who lack agency in their own life. I can defiantly see how some might react negatively that mechanic.

[@wnedyb.kellie2371]

this time I got the hopeful ending

[@Light-Rock97]

People say videogames are playing too much like movies. Well, they've always been, always will be, exactly what they were made to be, never changing, always on repeat.

[@ArgueWithTheMajority]

This hit home hard. I need to play this game.

[@nowknowthis]

I tried looking up Let's plays of this game and it's all gamer gate whiney Babies saying it sucks

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

Just Google the actual game, it's free and I don't think there's a download or anything. It's not for everyone but wouldn't take more than 2 hours or so to understand.

[@nivbarshem2674]

shut up and take my money

[@zackpumpkinhead8882]

9:15 DISCO ELYSIUM REFERENCE

[@acehealer4212]

I played this game a few years ago.

[@rainyfeathers9148]

Get nachos, keep watching. duh }:T

[@rainyfeathers9148]

I think Alex has some issues too. You can't do that to people, babe. I'm just glad >player< doesn't force themselves out of guilt.

[@cocok.291]

A depressed version of me..... So me lmao

[@masonk9838]

7:50 Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.

[@gragorastoriumbenefideliku5486]

www.depressionquest.com/ the link

[@FukcYuo-cy5yg]

its like the sims

[@madridgab]

4:08 "Lisa: call me"?

[@DeathEatsCurry]

I.. Really couldn't hear anything other than "I'm in a BOX" from MGS3 after the box thing was mentioned.. Edit: On a more serious note, was it really that brilliant? It was a cute little narrative trick, but it didn't feel as something terribly innovative to me, and something many text adventures have done in one way or another.

[@MANJYOMETHUNDER111]

DeathEatsCurry Why does it need to be innovative to be effective in your mind?

[@irrevenant3]

It's the only time I've seen it. But even if it's been used elsewhere, to my mind the brilliant thing was the way it was used to steadily and visibly whittle away your agency as a player so that not just the subject matter but the actual *mechanics* of the game were simulating depression. With any other topic it would be just a cute little narrative trick. With this particular topic that narrative trick - visibly constraining player choice - conveyed the feel and theme of depression incredibly effectively.

[@kompy2k]

Great video. This game is a baaaaad time.

[@Pablo360able]

I mean, it's about depression, so

[@MANJYOMETHUNDER111]

Do you believe in Death of the Author, FI?

[@minch333]

From things he has said in other videos, I'd say that he does. Do you?

[@MANJYOMETHUNDER111]

minch333 Depends on the series.

[@minch333]

Brian MacLeod Fair. I personally, ironically enough, feel that death of the author is misinterpreted!

[@sephreed1938]

I have a lot of respect for this channel, so I tried the game out. I don't get it. I mean, maybe if I had never been depressed in my life, this would be a good way for me to understand kind of... but not really. I guess it's cool that it pushes certain boundaries... but not really. I dunno, I see why people would be into this, but I also feel like it's not doing anyone any real good. Like self loathing, and drugs. It was too heavy handed to come off as self expression, imo.

[@cpunching]

The only insight this game made was into a white middle class idea of depression with a hefty social safety net. Just take pills, let your gf tell you she loves you, see a therapist and BAM your life is great! Don't do those things and you lose and commit suicide! Real life and dealing with depression is rarely like that for the majority of people - even popping pills requires you to cycle through several to find one that may fit but still has negative side effects (which the positives outweigh enough).

[@QuikVidGuy]

you contradict yourself and show a lack of understanding of both the game and depression but thanks for your useless opinion

[@cpunching]

Contradict myself? Oh sorry I forgot, I can't be a person with depression who's gone through this and has formed an opinion, I'm just a GG-er or something right? Sucks to your Assmar piggy.

[@Phizzy]

I don't see a contradiction, it's a fair point. Without a lot of support, depression can easily lead to homelessness and death. Is the 'BAM your life is great' part what actually happens in the game though? Been a while since I tried it.

[@cpunching]

I felt it was. Often I've felt that support isn't guaranteed. A partner will say they love and support you, but 3 months in and trying your 4th medication they'll kick you out because "you just aren't trying hard enough." Or that you get fired from your job because your performance has fallen even though you're slowly improving to a suitable level. The game pretty much cut all of those parts out and just has choices like "tell your girlfriend you're depressed," "okay she loves you and helps you no matter what unless you choose not to tell her!" It's incredibly shallow and I felt really harmed the impact, especially since it could have been a really powerful hit to the player to explain how depression isn't just feeling sad but it's the feelings of futility, that trying to crawl out of it often feels like you're being pushed back down through events like that.

[@Phizzy]

I can see your point. Maybe the developer wanted to show that it is possible to get through depression with the right help. Instead of having a storyline where your depression only gets worse and everyone abandons you, you are offered help that has the potential of actually helping? Having a story where there's no possibility of a positive outcome may seem more realistic to some people, but a story where people are willing to help, and you have the chance of getting better might just be more... Uplifting? Reassuring? In the end it's a limited story as told by the developer. As the video we're commenting talks about, games can only be what they're programmed to be, you can't 'break out of the box'. If you want to use Twine to tell a similar story that you feel is more realistic for people without the massive safety net, I'm sure people would find that enlightening.

[@theletterm1787]

M

[@clairestark9024]

That's a very interesting argument but it's still a bad game.

[@aperson4640]

Agreed. I don't condone the kind of harassment the creator experienced, but I tried to play the game and it's completely unengaging.

[@victorbarraza4910]

it's great for depressive people. it helped me. (I'm ok now XD)

[@brunobarbosa3471]

Tavita Tata I think it's unengaging nature is intentional. Depression isn't engaging in the way shooting aliens is. That said, I felt really engaged with the character's emotional journey while playing the game.

[@Tutorp]

It isn't *bad*, though. What it is, is not *fun*. I know, it's easy to conflate the two, because that's the first thing we expect from a game. Games are fun, games are entertaining. But nowhere in the definition of "game" does it say that it actually *has* to be entertaining to be good. Depression Quest isn't a game that's even *supposed* to be fun. It's basically a depression simulator, and a lot of people who are suffering or have suffered from depression claims that it really is a pretty damn good simulation of depression. If you come to the game expecting something else, you're going to be disappointed. I played through the game myself while someone I cared deeply about was suffering through depression, and from my perspective, in that situation, it actually was a good game. I recognized a lot, and trying to engage with the journey even gave me some insight that helped me cope with the situation I was in as a next of kin of sorts.

[@clairestark9024]

+108201251768048126522 that doesn't really justify the game. Trying to fob it off as a fun issue is fallacious. Schindlers list isn't fun neither is kafkas works and they're all time classics. Her work isn't bad because it's deppressing or disturbing (see silent hiill or this war of mine for details) it's bad because it's boring badly designed edutainment anyone could knock out in half a day.

[@ThumpingThromnambular]

Crossing out an option for an html game as a statement of what the player can't do is NOT a new concept.

[@r31n0ut]

It's not important if it's new or not, it's important that it accurately conveys the idea that when you have depression, that's the feeling you get. You KNOW that the option is there, but you cannot do it. Your brain won't let you, even though it recognizes that that would be the right thing to do. Speaking as someone who has depression: this game is about as close as videogames can get to conveying what that is like.

[@amphicorp4725]

these videos are fine, but i can't stop myself from disliking videos in which they're disabled

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

All that does is make the creator less likely to get picked up by the algorithm.

[@niccage6375]

It's from a time when the right was big on the internet. So a lot of leftist videos get massive dislikes

[@mavrickindigo]

posting this here since your gamergate video has blocked comments. i was a part of that whole thing back in the day and recently saw the sort of negative things that have been pointed out. i think the big thing that caught a lot of people up in it was these little grievances being compounded into some major conspiracy. For me, personally, i think, the issue had to do with video game censorship and how companies were afraid to make the stuff they wanted because of morality police who would blast them through the media. do yoh have a video discussion "self censorship"? i would love to see what you have to say about that and... to keep this o topic. i think this is the first time i actually thought about depression quest outside of being a strawman "non game"

[@iriswaters]

The thing is, this concern, so often stated, is absurd. There is no shortage of games that are sexually explicit, feature boring, samey, grim faced white dudes, or have as options gratuitous violence against women. More, none of the central characters attacked by Gamergate ever -called- for any game company to stop making them. This was one of the points that seems to have been completely missed. No one was calling for an end to anything, only asking people to think critically about the media they consume. And pointing out that there exists an already viable market demographic that is being largely ignored as these major game companies pour money into projects that actively alienate them. As for the question of self-censorship and game makers responding to consumer demand, this is something that is built into all AAA games -already-. Makers of major media respond to consumers. The fact that the market is saturated with grim-faced samey white dudes and endless gunbattles is itself an act of self-censorship. Major game publishers are not in the business of producing high art, they are in the business of creating marketable products. The decisions they make are based on what they think they can sell, not some sort of grand artistic vision. The few small voices that Gamergate piled on were trying to make these game makers aware of other possible game styles, storylines and character types that could appeal to other audiences. Not to get rid of Call of Duty 17, grown shooter deluxe, but to encourage the production of alternatives -too-. And to simply make any members of the public who might be interested aware of interesting things going on at the fringes of game design, where small time indy makers are creating other things. A publication that focuses on indy games giving an award to a game wholly dissimilar to the AAA titles that sell 10m copies isn't -hurting- you. It doesn't undermine the games you love. A game designer deciding to respond to a growing market demographic that they'd been previously unaware of and trying to make one of their 20 AAA titles in a particular year feature character types that don't normally get screen time still leaves 19 more with samey, grim faced white dudes at the helm for you to enjoy. A game maker deciding to make a title that doesn't encourage the player to murder hookers for power ups doesn't impact your life unless you have a particular fetish for murdering hookers, in which case... well... there are still plenty of other games that have had that, and you are a terrible person. But really, none of the women who Gamergate engaged in acts of mass harassment against were trying to take your games away. They weren't calling for censorship, or even saying games that had certain elements were -bad-. Only that media does have some impact on society, that the narratives of the common stories a society shares do have an impact on how the society thinks about things. And they were asking people to -think- about this. That's all.

[@iriswaters]

The whole narrative of the 'morality police' both mischaracterizes and misinterprets the actual arguments of those being attacked, and grossly over-estimates their capacity to impact the industry.

[@mavrickindigo]

I see what you're saying, and I agree with you. But let us not forget that there are other things being affected here. I never disliked Anita Sarkeesian, for example, for holding such opinions. What I didn't like about her was her taking a bunch of money from people, never finishing the series she promised to make, and then becoming some kind of semi-important figure in games development, simply because people were disagreeing with her opinions. Opinions that, while on the surface make sense, tend to for ignore the details. For instance, when she puts Peach as a damsel in distress, she quite clearly forgets the reason Bowser kidnaps her: because Peach is the most powerful magical force in the Mushroom Kingdom. She is the only person who can undo the damage Bowser causes. Mario may be the one going on adventures most of the time, but it is because of her the kingdom can get back in order after every failed takeover attempt. That could just be an excuse to justify the narrative, but the fact that she just ignores that fact is telling. As for self censorship and the like, I am reminded of the time the Tekken director said "Ask your Social Justice Warriors" if a certain character would appear in the west in their game. There was a period in time when that company was planning on excluding a character outside of japan due to the negative perception of said character. So while it may not be someone' intent to "take your games away," it certainly heads in that direction. As sexuality, for example, becomes more taboo than it already was, games that depict it are being censored. People who work for translation studios, such as 8-4, pride themselves in changing material to remove "problematic" content and go against the original creators visions. The most baffling thing to me is that most changes are being made to titles with niche audiences as if "purifying" them is somehow going to give them mass appeal. I personally wouldn't want to play "Criminal Girls" for example, but the people who would want to play it certainly don't want content cut from the game to appeal to people who will never play it.

[@hunterm1113]

You're being more or less polite about your ignorant arguments, but that makes them no less ignorant, sorry to say. Ms. Sarkeesian never "took money and never finished her series", there is literally no evidence of that. Her kickstarter campaign was preposterously overfunded, which people chose to do of their own accord, and Tropes Vs. Women has not ceased its production, new episodes still come out, if not very often. If you're skeptical, go to Feminist Frequency's website where they publicly post their budget to let backers know where their money has gone. I don't even like Tropes Vs. Women and this is obvious information. And no, she didn't become an important figure because people "disagreed with her opinions", she became known because she is literally one of the most harassed women on the entire internet. Like, does this just not even register to people like you? Do you not understand what harassment and death threats are? Admittedly, they're ridiculous, I agree. There's no way thousands of people could possibly be such miserable pieces of shit as to consistently threaten and bully a person for having a bunch of feminism 101 opinions about video games. That'd be really stupid. Welcome to the precursor to Gamergate. As people so often like to say to queer trans special snowflakes like me, "Welcome to the Real World". Next point you literally answered yourself. Yeah, that's an excuse to justify the narrative. A super shitty excuse lol, when has Princess Peach ever been magical? If she's so powerful and totally actually a strong empowered female character, why's Mario the main character? Why's Link the main character? Why's Samus consistently shoved further and further from being the main character? Yeah, depictions of Peach Zelda and Samus have had varying degrees of success. But you can't use in universe logic to justify sexist dynamics, especially when they're not even good excuses. And look I'm done giving nice answers so lightning round: I don't give a shit if the Tekken director is a giant coward. I don't give a shit if Bravely Default has one less 15 year old in their underwear. I don't give a shit if you think that the games industry's current idea of "sexuality" is rightfully being criticized for the shitty thing that it is. If you can't deal with people telling you to think about a thing, go ahead and cry about it while the rest of us grow the fuck up.

[@mavrickindigo]

I'm not exactly sure why your post went from being a rational rebuttal to the stuff I brought up to devolving into telling me to cry into a corner. I've been having this discussion with you, and I appreciate what you're saying. Did I say or do anything to indicate that I am not willing/able to communicate in a mature manner? I'm honestly quite perplexed.

[@DamnDealDone]

Depression quest is a website with a multiple choice quiz, nothing more. As entertainment, it's about the same level of Kris Kross Make Your Own Video on Mega CD. As a person who has suffered with severe depression for well over 15 years which has resulted in me squandering my talents, losing ALL my friends, and literally losing years of my life in what can be described as self inflicted confinement, depression quest doesn't resonate with me in the slightest. No matter how much linguistic and mental aerobics you do to try make it seem less of a pitiful creation, it is terrible. I actually scratched my head when I first saw it. I just don't understand how anyone can see any redeeming features in that level of work and creativity. It's novice and mediocre at best. Praising mediocrity just makes me want to quit life even more since my efforts in such endeavours might as well be mediocre too. Her understanding of depression is like that of a moody teenager. NOT REAL DEPRESSION!

[@samanthablanch3628]

How can one person dictate what 'real depression' is, though? Like, I've been diagnosed as well, but my experience was undoubtedly very different from yours. Depression isn't a single experience with a single set of symptoms, so while I acknowledge that your experience was unique and would have been really hard to work through, enough other people have found it really resonating with them that I think it can both be an experience of "real depression" and not match your own equally valid experience of the illness. It's an attempt to use a fairly minimalist approach to interactive fiction to communicate an experience that is inherently difficult to understand, so I think that there's still value in that even if I'm not entirely sold on it as something I really personally like. I agree that it doesn't really jive with what I would call a 'game,' but it not being a game doesn't necessarily make it 'bad' any more than a painting is worse for being in watercolour than oils.

[@phantimboboto5333]

Wow you mean a video game about depression isn't the same as actually being clinically depressed in real life? It's almost like real life and video games are two completely different things and one can take artistic license to tell a narrative or something.

[@DamnDealDone]

@@phantimboboto5333you fail to understand the context of this very old comment. Even I can't remember exactly. But you would have thought this "game" was going to cure cancer the way it was talked about.

[@littlelizzyann]

@@DamnDealDone You might also have thought it was the herald of the end times, the way it was talked about. It's neither. It's a text-based game about a serious subject that almost nobody thought was fun but that some people found meaningful and a lot of people didn't. But so many people in the latter group couldn't just ignore it as not to their taste; they actively tried to destroy it, and its creator. And that's weird (and misogyny, if you want my personal opinion).

[@DamnDealDone]

@@littlelizzyann it says literally nothing about depression. It's shallow and has no redeemable qualities. Thanks

[@MelodyYoung]

It's a choose your own adventure book, only it's online and not in a book. It'd be great as an e-book but it's boring and uninspired as a video game.

[@pedrogomezid]

Blake Foxx it is still a videogame

[@Liliputian07]

you know that this is an actual genre

[@10z20]

Nobody would have ever given Quinn and her game the light of day had she not been harassed by an army of online incels. Gamergate was the best possible thing that could have happened for her career.

[@r.k845]

And the worst for the guy she ended up murdering

[@ashtimbog]

they couldve used their audience for love instead of absolute hatred

[@ashtimbog]

@@r.k845which did not happen

[@Nevoia]

@@r.k845 you mean, the guy who was couldn't cope with the world knowing about how abusive he was?

[@The_Punisher]

She made a dude kill himself

[@corbindalis]

You are being far too kind with this review

[@fisheatsyourhead]

its not a review its a discussion, he doesn't approach it as a product to recommend but as a text to analyse

[@zunlise2341]

@@fisheatsyourhead it's not even really a product, the game is completely free

[@OG_McLovin]

He probably got some from Quinn too.

[@adampope5107]

​@@OG_McLovinJesus Christ you idiots are still on your pretend outrage crusade?

[@r.k845]

@@adampope5107I wouldn’t defend a murderer

[@Darth_Benga]

Call it a video game all you want (it's really just a monetised HTML experience) Depression Quest is awful. Just awful. I don't care how accurately it portrays some peoples forms of depression. I didn't identify with the characters at all. I didn't enjoy reading what amounted to an incredibly dull story that close-mindedly dictated every aspect of how "I" was "feeling". It leaves no room for interpretation. It was like being repeatedly slapped in the face with a teenage girls diary. Add to this pile of shit the fabricated victimhood of Zoe Quinn and the whole thing deserves to be wiped from the face of the earth. I'd rather play Atari ET than sit through this shit again.

[@longliverocknroll5]

"fabricated victimhood of Zoe Quinn " Yeah, I mean, the abuse of Quinn only started an entire hate-movement, but sure, "fabricated". Sorry, would you prefer "journalistic integrity" or some other obviously bullshit claim?

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

You still a gamergate clown or did you grow out of it?

[@ParadoxicalThird]

Hey man, are you still a loser?

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

@@ParadoxicalThird yo, what if this guy is dead and we are both bullying a dead guy? He's prob alive and still a loser but still.

[@ParadoxicalThird]

@@itcouldbelupus2842 hopefully he wasn't a very expensive burial.