FOLLOW UP - She Rolls His Amarok!!!

After last week’s video Mick, the owner of the rolled 4x4 Amarok, gave me more information. So let’s continue the conversation and see what else we can learn.
He told his Girlfriend how to crash his 4x4! Well, let's unpack that. • He told his Girlfriend...
Here is my REACTS videos playlist - its purpose is for us all learning from other people's 4x4 drives. - • REACTS - This is about...
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[@MadMatt4WD]

After last week’s video Mick, the owner of the rolled 4x4 Amarok, gave me more information. So let’s continue the conversation and see what else we can learn. Last weeks video He told his Girlfriend how to crash his 4x4! Well, let's unpack that. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZfOqq2PqLJpgNk If you're interested in signing up for my upcoming online 4wd training course click this link to register your interest and I will email you FREE and exclusive 4x4 training videos madmatt4wd.com.au/register. Here is my REACTS videos playlist - its purpose is for us all learning from other people's 4x4 drives. - kzbin.info/aero/PLxCUUqtm329plBAWaZBTGQolmUBJnXMDU

[@BenMitro]

We have to manage momentum, including the momentum in our minds..."must get through at all costs" See there was another option - turn around and go back and find another track around.

[@mickjohnex]

What wasn't mentioned is that just beyond that hole, was the entrance to the track eg. The main road. Also had already been around it once and this was us turning around.

[@kenmuggli4613]

Thanks Matt for educating us, we are better off for your efforts.

[@davidfox9666]

You are a brilliant educator. Love your work mate!

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thank you so much 😀

[@HelloImNotJohnnyCash]

mate, you are learning but we are also learning which also creates conversations around how to better our off road experiences.. Kudos good sir, kudos.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Very true!

[@tpv59]

FANTASTIC ! Appreciated. Thank You.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Our pleasure!

[@Candesce]

Every time I ever see someone try to avoid ruts, especially on wet/muddy days, they inevitably slip in and make the situation so much worse. The real lessons here are to stay in the ruts, grit your teeth, and just do it. If you can't make it through the obstacle (the bog hole is too deep, too soft, etc.) then reverse and leave!

[@albertopamintuan6742]

Hi Matt, I know this track very well. I have taken a club trip of 10 vehicles at that very track. Yes you can take left or right of the bog hole. My preference is the right side with my GU Patrol, there's a flat section just at the base of the tree line, so hug the tree line and fold the drive side mirror, and drive with slow control - no diff lock to avoid slipping into the slope. WIth the right side, we winch out the rut, but continue to winch to the left side until the flat section. The bog hole is 200 metres from a main intersection, so the FJ would have come from there. It's a seasonal track, and the gate is open at the moment.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Ah copy. Thanks for the extra information.

[@jackfourbee3609]

It’s a win win situation for old mate. He has the girl and a 100 series. Panic does strange things to everyone. Our minds get clouded easily as emotions run rampant. A wise man once said. We will have a cuppa first and think about it. It’s good practice to take time to think about what is happening and appoint one person to take charge. This will eliminate confusion. Keep up the great work Matt 👏👏👏

[@MadMatt4WD]

A very positive outlook. I like it.

[@Rob_FJ]

Hahaha the FJ probably just slowly crawled over it all. No fuss, no wheel spin, just getting the job done.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Lol

[@NasTimeAdventures]

Finally finished the video of my recovery in the same spot. Not the smartest move I'm made but a text book recovery thanks to good people. Video out now.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Please shoot us a link here.

[@jamesmcpherson297]

@madmatt4wd some times using the shovel and knocking the top edge off that rut letting the wheel climb out works too. That layer of tree debris can be as slippery as ice. I think this was just a case of shell be right till its not. Glad no one was injured and I'm sure they learn a heap. All too often we see these KZbin videos of influencers who are just bouncing through mud holes, ruts and obstacles or sending it and unfortunately that is seen by so many people viewing.

[@sharons9367]

Plenty of room on the left hand side you can see the amount of room in the triangle of death photo , even close to tree line tyre tracks where others have passed previously

[@mickjohnex]

There actually really isn't. 😂

[@richardpriestly3499]

Firstly I appreciate your vids Matt, I’ve been 4WDing for about 35 years but you’re never too old to learn. I’d like to take a step back from where you started with this vid, you mentioned the boyfriend Mick told her “give it some bunty” I just want to make the observation about risk in general. Emma observed that she felt like she was going to roll over and in the drivers seat that can be a feeling when the risks are actually quite benign. There are times when the spotter can tell the driver “just give it some bunty” but this was not one of them. Risk comprises two elements, likelihood and consequence. In a different situation it might be good to teach Emma how to “give it some bunty” to get the front wheels to climb out of a rut. You might do that when there is a clear and open track ahead and some ruts to play and learn in. Then the likelihood of the front wheels railroading on forward would be the same (in that clay highly likely) but the consequence would be much less (just under steering forward onto more ruts) But in this situation the presence of that huge hole makes the risk massively higher because of the potential for roll over. This is a basic principle to apply to life in general but 4WDing especially. Don’t just look at the likelihood of an outcome look at the consequence aswell. Even if that rut had been sandstone with excellent traction and a very low likelihood of under steer the presence of that hole made that a high risk. You said you wanted to “unpack” the event and I just thought that unpacks it a little further. Risk is the combination of likelihood and consequence Sometimes even if one of those is low the other can be high and the overall risk is still high. (In this situation I consider both were high, what was he thinking?)

[@MadMatt4WD]

Hey. Great comment. The idea of these videos is to get the discussion started. I don’t know everything and actually learn a lot from the comments in the content. Although I have known what you’re saying I’ve not considered it like this. Thanks for that.

[@chrisbartlett6022]

@@MadMatt4WD YES, get a discussion going, then able to learn. If we cant learn from mistakes then we are a very sad bunch. In watching both of these videos I feel, even if the gentleman was driving and "gave it some Bunty" and yes I very much agree it should have been "try it gently, see what happens" by the time he realised the momentum was not going to work, and probably went for the brake it would have ended up in the same thing happening as using the brake would have increased the centripetal (rotational) force . Also the "triangle of death" comment shows that there was a deal of experience within the group, bet they carry a few more ropes and recovery equipment with them now though.

[@ka4172]

A bad "spotter" bring your truck down ha ha!

[@Psyco913]

It's a little out of the box, but since they were redirecting with the snatch block it didn't really matter where the Fj was as long as it was in range. What they could have done is put the FJ behind a tree with the front bumper resting against it. A tree saver is obviously ideal, but it would get the job done. Luckily that other vehicle came along and helped them out anyway.

[@baconeggale]

I'm the goose with the fj. Everyday is a school day! Some good suggestions in the comments. I'm glad Mick now has the 100 series 😂

[@MadMatt4WD]

Hey mate. You done ok. How did you get past the amarok though??

[@baconeggale]

Very slowly on the left side (looking at the nose of the Amarok). Not much room to operate but just enough. I went back and forth three times as we worked on different angles. We had a bit more recovery gear between us than the video suggests, always good to have more tho! To complicate things I also had my 2 year old with me. Towed the Amarok out and everyone was home safe by 1AM, I think the rollover happened about 4PM.

[@cyclemoto8744]

Thanks MM. I agree, would be great to know how the FJ appeared on the opposite side of the obstacle. Cheers

[@tennesseethompson5287]

Probably because there looks to be ample room on the left side of the track!

[@mickjohnex]

It drove the same line and made it through

[@rossstafford4531]

Hi madMatt when I go out with my Nissan patrol mate, GU I take out my soft shackles and plenty of my recovery gear. I don’t just carry the basics I carry more because you never know what’s gonna happen either for yourself or your mates I like to play it safe to meet you on the tracks mate 👍🏻🍺🍺🇦🇺

[@MadMatt4WD]

That sounds wise to me.

[@tennesseethompson5287]

Interesting video Matt, 4hrs to recover that? & we never found out how it was actually recovered! The winch setup from the FJ was a not ideal being on a sharp / steep angle, huge ask , would of worked if it was flat & no rut. But only if it was on the flat. I would have hooked up a extension strap and dragged it backwards, ideally with another winch pulling it sideways to keep it off the wall, then start the sideways winching to right it back on its wheels, if I couldn’t nail that in an hour and a half well I’m a dummy! Shoot me down in flames Matt, …..I’m in a large active club & this recovery is once a month kind of stuff. The best lesson here is slow down & drive those obstacles as slow as possible & vehicles rarely roll over. Cheers Matt.

[@katreniaclark]

I still would have tried forward down the middle of the trench and have both front wheels drop in at the same time then the same with the back .

[@andrewford80]

at some point someone needs to repair that track.

[@rockrashadventures7121]

From 9min 40sec looks as if they are connected to the towbar if it was a higher point eg slider would be an easier pull on the winch and less stress on gear. would also pull the car almost flat again

[@mickjohnex]

Nah, it's actually on the chassis rail.

[@lloydw.3950]

Hi Matt. I know hind sight can be a wonderful thing, but to my mind, once it became apparent that the Amarok wanted to track along the rut towards the big ditch, I would think the (perhaps overly cautious) approach would have been to run the winch to an anchor point well to the left to pull the front of the Rok up out of the rut. Your thoughts??

[@MadMatt4WD]

I agree.

[@spencer1793]

In a situation we’re a vehicle has rolled could you use the winch on the car that rolled to aid in the recovery? I know you can’t run the engine but you could run it off the battery?

[@MadMatt4WD]

You most certainly can. In some of the pics you can see the Amorok winch has been used. Also there’s a video I did a few months ago where a Lexus rolled and he used his winch to recover.

[@Psyco913]

It would have felt much more comfortable to winch out if they had a bridle connecting the anchor point they used and the front bumper, that way you wouldn't have to worry about it rotating on you and falling back in. But as you said, they didn't seem to have a lot of gear anyway because if they had another rope/strap they would have been able to anchor the FJ.

[@mickjohnex]

Correct. We only had the 2 winches, about 5 soft shackles and a couple bow shackles, we had 2 snatch straps and 1 tree trunk protector. In hindsight we needed a secondary tree trunk protector or bridle strap to anchor the FJ. As it just ended up pulling the FJ forwards.

[@jackar1ah]

​@@mickjohnexis that why the FJ was parked in a boghole with the winch connected in one of the photos Matt showed, to try and give it more resistance against being pulled forward??

[@michaelaustin5888]

The winch becomes live once each end is connected as if one of the anchor points moves the rope will become tight in seconds. Emagin a tight rope coming up between the legs in seconds

[@MadMatt4WD]

I know the argument and there’s times where’s that’s correct. Nothing really wrong with the concept though.

[@allanpower8041]

Is there video of how they actually recovered it from the Fitch?

[@MadMatt4WD]

This and the previous video are all I’ve got.

[@mickjohnex]

There is not. In the end, FJ winch pulled sideways, the Amarok winch pulled forwards and the third vehicle became an anchor point. Slowly using the 3 winches, it came out. Sideways, forwards, sideways forwards etc.

[@blackcat4370]

Hello @MadMatt4WD I have seen a lot of recovery videos on KZbin, there are the Videos of Trailmater, Matt's Off Road Recovery (you know him personally), Ronny Dahl, some german Yt-channels and of course your videos. You said that they had not enough recovery gear and that you helped a guy on Fraser Island, so you can call me a dumb ass, but in my opinion there's a rule, which says driving alone needs more recovery gear than driving with a second car or more. On a german channel i saw a video how to recover by reverse winching and for this technic is needed: 3 snatch block with rated bow shakles or snatch rings for 3 soft shakles 2 tree protector in case the winch rope is not long enough 1 winch extension If there is another car, the recovery gear can be reduced, but it should be still above that's what needed for driving alone. Although there should be spare recovery gears for the reason that some recovery gear breaks while using it (may be) the wrong way!

[@MadMatt4WD]

You’re correct. My point is that the absolute minimum is what I said. If you’re doing a bigger trip by yourself into remote areas you should carry more.

[@brentl]

Newb here but how acceptable is it to modify the trail? At first I thought...well just get out a shovel and fill in the trench? That was before I saw how big it was. But now I am wondering is modifying the ground/trail ok to do?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Generally my thinking is don't modify the environment if at all possible and then only as much as needed. Then return it to what it was if possible.

[@OnCountryWithMick]

I am one that suggested going down the right, after seeing the photos that clearly is not an option. The left may have still been an option but slipping into that rutt is still a very high chance. Also Ol Mate in the Triangle Of Death,Is thay not the same guy that slipped over?. I think he just needs to calm down and start thinking before he acts a bit more. Footware in the bush is always a factor too. I see so many people doing this sort of thing in Thongs & Crocs that have almost no grip on mud.

[@mickjohnex]

Not the same guy.

[@OnCountryWithMick]

@@mickjohnex ok..

[@WrongTurnAdventures]

Hahahaha won't roll a 100Series 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@MadMatt4WD]

😂😂😂

[@tyzon00800]

Yes it would’ve broke down long before it got to the bog

[@MadMatt4WD]

Hey Hey Hey we don't need that sort of negativity here.😁 @@tyzon00800

[@luToursAndRecoveries]

I reckon a 105 would tip over faster then a 100🎉

[@overlandready]

I think the greater angle approach would have worked especially if the tree that lays iin the track was dug in to give a support and bounce offto climb the rut easier. Again, it's hyperthetical and the only true test is to drive it! Looking at the other side of the "obsticle" it would have been better to drive it square on, so vehicle starts more to the right, that obviously needs to be decided and set up for way before the start of the original video. Good review and really important to highlight the "triangle of death". I personally consider the line to be "live" if tensioned OR connected and the vehicle can move for at least 2 second on the slack line; this is simple, reaction time is about 0.5s, if you can't clear in just over another 1.5s then you should not be there anyway. 1.5s is quite a long time in reality in these scenarios when things are going wrong. The thing you don't want is the line to whip you as it tensions as that has a lot more power than just a let loose hit. Think of chese whires, they work well tight and don't work at all loose. ps you'll be the cheese in that scenario.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Well said

[@alanedwards6491]

Prevention, they had a winch and should have used it to prevent the incident by pulling out of the rut....read the track..!

[@DuzBee]

All the gear and no idea, blind leading the blind.

[@tinkermouse-scottrussell3738]

The average person without knowledge of winches, they have no concept of the power winches generate.

[@robertsimpson6324]

I go out on my own common sense and a shovel is my mate....cannot rely on other people

[@MadMatt4WD]

A shovel is the best recovery tool often.

[@ethicalfarmer7424]

Just why?

[@Splits-man]

You’re kidding right? It was written off? Surely it was just panel damage?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Apparently it was written off. 🤔

[@mickjohnex]

Roof and pillar damage.

[@RockbasherV8]

It looks like someone dug a hole it looks like they did not get out to inspect the terain it's Just not worth what they did camber Is off at both sides also if it could have been driven straight into the hole that's best but if you can't find a alternative route I would have driven miles to get round it just not worth it is it

[@mattluszczak8095]

Booboo fell over

[@cameronwood1994]

Personally, I think the pull direction they were using was also incorrect. In the last picture, I'd have used the tree behind and just off to the right of the Amarok, maybe using the tree they're currently using for an anchor point purely as a redirect. If I've learned anything, two pulley blocks should be considered a minimum, three being even better. I also like proper, heavy-duty winching chocks. Mayflower Automotive Products in the UK used to make some excellent chocks that can also be chained over a front bumper. A small company called LR Optional Equipment make excellent reproductions but they're £720 plus tax for the pair, and something like that would have stopped that FJ Cruiser from sliding. I also don't think that righting the vehicle when it's in that deep of a hole would be very successful. Yes, I know by dragging it in such a manner there's going to be significant damage to the right-hand side of the vehicle, and the winch would be under a lot of load, so maybe the pull at the rear needs to have a mechanical advantage to overcome it (I'm up to two or three pulleys now, depending if I use that one anchor as a redirect), but I feel doing that, and then using the tree they used as the anchor for righting the vehicle would be the better solution.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Great comment and thoughts.