Following The Money! KSP2 Steam Sales Numbers Revealed

[@somedudesstuff801]

in finance and accounting there are shenanigans that are legal but make no sense from the outside. Apparently it's a thing that you buy a portfolio of unprofitable companies. Put all the losses on the accounts for one of them so the others can show a profit in their books. Sell all the "profitable" ones, bankrupt the trash can one. Doesn't matter what the industry or product is. Somehow it's not technically considered fraud if certain criteria are met (like they are actually selling some kind of product.)

[@user-zp6ff2gr4n]

There is the angle of liquidating assets.

[@TechyBen]

The Producers: Tax write off!

[@DailyFrankPeter]

"Technically"

[@Helperbot-2000]

thats just good business. dont'cha love capitalism?

[@OutsiderLabs]

@Helperbot-2000 Why is it that children these days think businesses and money didn't exist until capitalism came along?

[@DanStaal]

For toy company that was a partner - I'd go with Estes, who recently released a line of rockets with Kerbal themes. Sounds like the type of thing you'd do if you had a bigger project in the works but it fell through - take what you have already developed and release it, to recoup some of the costs.

[@PerMortensen]

I was thinking maybe Funko? Kerbals already have sort of a Funko Pop aesthetic.

[@DanStaal]

@@PerMortensen My thought is based more on the fact that Estes recently released - for no real apparent reason - a set of KSP-related items with a sort of in-between KSP1/KSP2 aesthetic. Besides KSP=Rockets there really wasn't any reason for the items, and the release didn't tie to anything, etc. It made a lot of people scratch their heads. However if there had been some tie-in planned that fell through, then it suddenly makes a lot more sense. Estes would have been working on moulds and production, and releasing the items without the tie-in would offset that, and it is likely that fans of one product may be fans of the other. (It was mostly the timing and the details that made little sense: Why release a new KSP product, that doesn't quite match either game, *after* the development studios have been disbanded? Again, 'because we were working on some other project' makes a lot of sense.)

[@CarloRizzante]

10 copies per day? Why would anyone buy an unfinished product that will never be finished? What a mystery...

[@hingewichsterfick]

Because how would you know? If you see KSP 2 on the steam store front, one will simply not dig into the game, its development history and stuff like that before buying it. "We" here are not "general people", simple as that.

[@Qwarzz]

Hopefully they understand to refund it in time.

[@linecraftman3907]

there are a lot of uninformed people who see cool screenshots and want to give it a try

[@matt5781]

Try asking this question on the Star Citizen sub reddit? ;)

[@thedude4795]

theres a *LOT* of people out there with bad judgement. I mean look at the amount who liked your comment, lol, just kidding

[@franciscomagalhaes7457]

The problem with ksp 2 sales figures isn't that 15k/month is a small amount, it's that it's entirely fraudulent. Early Access is for games under development. ksp 2 isn't being developed. Steam should really address this. It's not like it's game-changing revenue for valve...

[@icaleinns6233]

Why would Steam address this if it's still generating ANY kind of revenue? There is no incentive for them to do anything. They don't have any skin in the game. So unless KSP2 stops selling period they will keep it listed.

[@Atlessa]

@@icaleinns6233 If you think there's no incentive for them to do anything then you don't know why Steam is where they are in the market.

[@HalNordmann]

Right in the Steam description for Early Access, it states, paraphrasing, "these games are not finished, and might never be." No fraud - it doesn't require you to finish the game.

[@OutsiderLabs]

You should probably read the agreement you have to agree to in order to buy the game. The bit about the only thing you're guaranteed to get is the game as it stands at the moment. Promises and such literally do not even factor into it.

[@ChrisHöppner]

@@icaleinns6233 KSP2 has single handedly convinced me to absolutely NEVER touch another game in early access. In no small part because Valve refuses to do anything about KSP2. I'm probably better off throwing my money down the toilet than putting it towards anything in EA. About the same guarantees of getting anything for it. At least with actual gambling there's a small but existing chance you make something back.

[@srboromir452]

Lego Kerbal would have been crazy, snap together rocket parts

[@Aabergm]

We asked for that during the heyday.

[@armchairgravy8224]

I'm not usually an advocate of piracy, but it seems to be the only way for consumers to fight back in this case.

[@demidermak713]

for what? getting a broken and unfinished game? Unless you mean pirating KSP1, so that no money goes to haveli

[@mat5i6]

And pirate what exactly? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want KSP2 even for free. Besides, for every pirate, there is always at least one fanboy and one ignorant that will buy the crap anyway.

[@DailyFrankPeter]

Or even to keep checking on the progress with the intention of buying it when the bugs are fixed and the features advertised with the initial sale are implemented. In this case it never happened so this would've saved money and also the feeling of getting cheated. I generally feel that a fair early access model should be more like: - 'we have only some of the features' - 'ok, then here's only part of the money' :)

[@SteelRider]

Not even worth cracking this thing

[@Qwarzz]

Just play the first one with a few hundred mods instead :)

[@oasntet]

6:15 this is why calling KSP2 a scam or a money grab is silly. Scammers don't spend $38 million developing games. Keeping it available for sale is scummy, but none of the developers were responsible for that decision.

[@HalNordmann]

Right in the Steam description for Early Access, it states, paraphrasing, "these games are not finished, and might never be." No fraud - it doesn't require you to finish the game.

[@oasntet]

@HalNordmann Yeah. It technically isn't fraud. But legal and moral are two very different things.

[@MrSaywutnow]

"Scammers don't spend $38 million developing games." Didn't Star Citizen recently hit $700 million?

[@HalNordmann]

@@MrSaywutnow I don't think CIG are scammers. Extremely overambitious for sure, but not scammers, even if it might seem that way.

[@MrSaywutnow]

​@HalNordmann The last time I was paying any sort of attention to Star Citizen, there were a lot of questionable dealings taking place. I'm certain Chris Roberts had noble intentions at the start, but his project has transformed into a beast that is clearly beyond his control at this point.

[@broscotocos5328]

So basically, all we can expect is a bunch of soulless money grabber crap games with our beloved kerbals. KSA it is then.

[@mariusg8824]

This was very solid investigative journalism. I have seen no one else put it together like that. And I just realized that I should stop recommending anyone to buy KSP1, if the money lands in these pockets.

[@nichijoufan]

After ksp2 and boundary i am never buying into any early access scam again

[@christianvanderstap6257]

Or if you do, know there is no guarantee it will be finished.

[@tyson31415]

I paid $10 for KSP1 about 10 years ago, and I'm still playing it (it has an amazing mod community). Sometimes Early Access is worth it BUT should be so cheap that if it doesn't work out, you only spent $10.

[@kingofgar101]

My personal rule for early access is to ask myself Would i be happy with my purchase if the game never updated again? which only leaves the possibility of servers going down or the game updating into something i dont like

[@OutsiderLabs]

@@kingofgar101 You basically just said what the actual steam disclaimer says. Based take

[@ianwilson4286]

How can they still sell KSP2 for full price with the road map still saying we will get all.

[@OutsiderLabs]

Because disclaimer and people too lazy to read it

[@ChrisHöppner]

Because Early Access is just a free money glitch for publishers.

[@bikingchad]

Val over your shoulder at 8:20 made me double take! 😁

[@hitekkaifighter1825]

They’re gonna ask Illumination to make a god awful KSP movie… aren’t they?

[@DataSchmuck69]

Be Quiet! Don't give them ideas. Bahhh, too late now, if it happens I blame YOU.

[@hitekkaifighter1825]

@@DataSchmuck69 you think they’ll bother looking at this comment section, let alone a single KSP community video, given that the only fuck they give about us is whether or not we give them our money?

[@hitekkaifighter1825]

@@DataSchmuck69 you think they’re gonna watch a single KSP community video given how little they care about us? Let alone read this comment section.

[@TechyBen]

IMO they needed to spend less money on art before getting the game "ready". On beta release the game had full audio and animations for the training, which are likely to change (due to code/game dynamics etc). How many 100s of thousands did the tutorial animations alone cost? Not that they shouldn't do the wonderful animations and tutorial, but that doing that *first* with the budget... kinda seems risky!

[@jakewolfe7397]

Agreed. A lot of the issues it seems with studios nowadays is they put the flashy marketing stuff up first (animations, cutscenes, etc.), before any workable, playable product is even close to being done. It's happened with Cyberpunk and countless other AAA games -- it just seems to be the new hotness but it shouldn't be. Corporate marketing strategy simply doesn't work with proper game development imo.

[@kdaviper]

The problem was that T2 chose the company with shiny art and nothing to back it up

[@Simon-px8mi]

Never trust big companies.

[@DailyFrankPeter]

Yeah, I thought my EA money would go to support the devs to keep developing and not to Take 2 to cushion the loss and immediately sack the devs.

[@Simon-px8mi]

@@DailyFrankPeter Exactly. They are using us and Im sick of it. They abuse the consumer and the worker (developer). I cant stand this. KSP2 was the reason why Im never buying a big game. I am pirating everything from now on.

[@OutsiderLabs]

@@DailyFrankPeter Yeah they had a barebones tech demo after almost a decade of work, those devs were always gonna end up homeless

[@IKnowStuff]

Big companies, big bankers, politicians and major political parties, lawyers, used car salesmen, academics with big titles and no real world experience, MBAs and high ranking religious leaders.

[@Deltarious]

If you got the numbers for Stationeers recently while the last sale was taking place then I'm one of those numbers :D It's surprisingly good, it's one of those games that's good enough that I wish it were more developed than it already is as the concept is great but the scope doesn't fully do it jusitice. It has a very strong KSP-esque vibe to it's concept art and even to some degree in game too, it's like if you made humans into the shape of Kerbals and had fully fleshed out the EVA/construction into a first person game

[@MinerBat]

a kerbal adventure game? this was known information already? i never heard about that

[@armanuki38911]

If they actually made Lego Kerbal, it would surely review-bombed by unhappy KSP2 buyers. If Lego does some research and finds out about this, they will stay away from the IP. No, the Kerbal IP has a negative value at the moment. Anybody who would still want to do something with it, would first have to spend money to make the KSP2 buyers happy somehow.

[@JonBrase]

I mean, the KSA team could probably make KSP2 buyers happy enough just by buying the IP and pulling the Steam listing. They don't seem to really want the IP, but once KSA exists they could probably make a quick buck by adding a "Kerbal mode" with Kerbal skins for the Kittens, the original KSP solar system, etc.

[@lorenmax2.013]

They probably didn't buy private division for the KSP ip. In fact, as a KSP fan, I think that take two's goal of making this game their blockbuster was really stupid. A rocket building, star exploring game with realistic physics! Of course lots of people will buy it, just to play 2-10 hours and get bored, proceeding to dislike it on steam for being boring. The voice in which I heard "game reviewers" refer to KSP 2 was like that of someone who talks about the cartoons his children watch. Never could have been a blockbuster, the masses crave looter shooters, not engineering

[@johansten7976]

Yeah, I absolutely think it was Tales of the Shire and that Pokémon game that they bought it for. Everything else is chaff. *Any* trickle of money from those is perfectly fine.

[@fusel1987]

Want my money, back!

[@IkeFanBoy64]

Same

[@nanohatakamachi1066]

Not worth the effort imo. Work few hours at minimum wage and you're out.

[@anoniemw.222]

​@@nanohatakamachi1066more like a principal, just want that they loose money

[@IkeFanBoy64]

@@anoniemw.222 exactly

[@neo2264]

It is my firm belief that ShadowZone is, himself, a Kerbal 😆

[@Bamamarama]

I wonder if its storefronts resellers whatever buying keys/obtaining keys, steam giving away keys, something like that? I just can't see anyone actually buying KSP2.

[@buzzdodson3835]

i tried to get a refund the other day for KSP2 on steam and it was declined. and tbh it made sense, i had over 10 hours played and its been years since the purchase. still sucks though

[@dosmastrify]

FOLLOW HIM ON HIS SOCIAL THINGIES

[@platypusrex2287]

Estes model rocket company has a licensed KSP rocket merch line..

[@PlanToEscapeTheTorment]

Crazy that a game can generate upwards of 15m dollars in early access sales and still be considered a failure and cause a studio shutdown.

[@craigtoo]

Thanks ShadowZone!

[@Sundablakr]

Isn't there a case for legal action for people buying a game that has promises listed on the Steam page (counts as advertisement) that are never fulfilled (counts as false advertisement)?

[@protocol6]

Leaving KSP2 up for sale after getting rid of the dev team and selling the assets is just begging for a class action lawsuit.

[@HalNordmann]

Right in the Steam description for Early Access, it states, paraphrasing, "these games are not finished, and might never be." No fraud - it doesn't require you to finish the game.

[@De_Lus]

@HalNordmann i don't know, rule number 2 of the rules steam set for early access says this: 2. Do not make specific promises about future events. For example, there is no way you can know exactly when the game will be finished, that the game will be finished, or that planned future additions will definitely happen. Do not ask your customers to bet on the future of your game. Customers should be buying your game based on its current state, not on promises of a future that may or may not be realized. and with their roadmap still up i think a class action lawsuit might be in order

[@ChrisHöppner]

@@De_Lus A lawsuit against who? The ones that just bought it? I can guarantee there's a big clause somewhere that frees them of any liability, just like Valve absolves themselves of it too by putting all the blame on the customer.

[@De_Lus]

@@ChrisHöppner yeah sure whoever holds the rights i don't care who they sue i guess this is why GOG is gaining in populartiy especcialy now that steam got forced to put with every purchase thats its just a license you are getting and all the people claiming if buying isn't owning then piracy is not stealing... they can absolve them much as they will but they are not gaining popularity

[@demonicsquid7217]

Oh no look out! It's gamer flex class action comment time. KSP2 is not breaking any rules by still being available for sale. Is it scummy? Yes. Is it illegal? No. The best solution is for Steam to delist it and people to shrug, move on, and remember who gave us this mess.

[@arsailor89]

I just don't know if I could care less about the "Kerbal IP" at this point. Sure the Kerbal drew me into KSP, but that's because I was looking for a game where I build rockets and (semi) manage a space agency. They made the game seem more approachable for a genre that is insanely niche and a bit hard to get into. On the other hand, adventure games are a dime a dozen and so many of them have their own quirky mascot. Adding Kerbals to that pool is like adding yet another red-flavored jelly bean to the bag. I kinda hope they just let the Kerbal IP die. Bring on the kittens!

[@marekkos3513]

I still play KSP2 no matter what.I just love this game ,as it is

[@DeadBaron]

Still the worst $50 I ever spent and it boils my blood Valve won't refund anyone. Most of us went over 2 hours just troubleshooting.

[@gilmer3718]

I'm still so so so glad I held off when I heard of the early problems.

[@dinosaurking3733]

I think in the very unlikely case ksp2 continues development under a new studio, it will be a studio of considerably smaller size compared to intercept.

[@jakeed09090]

Quality journalism. It's a shame what's happened.

[@JoeFrogz]

I had wondered if they would just sell the IPs over individually overtime and sell the rights to the IPs whilst retaining ownership of the IP itself.

[@Raj_Luthra]

I hope KSP2 will make a comeback and be just as successful as KSP1.

[@UriahGnu]

KSP2 is dead to me, if they started development tomorrow, I really could not care less. KSA's direction and transparency, focus on performance, scale and modding are what is needed, not more corporate space junk made in Unity.

[@jeffshannon3627]

My bet is on lego because during the launch there was suspicious lego ideas launch by sam67c. Now sam67c has in the past insisted it was a completely unpaid volunteer effort. But it always seemed way too polished of a launch, almost like they aborted the official launch of a lego kit because the launch of ksp2 itself was aborted into early access.

[@tarkov_6]

can't say that i'm a huge fan of Dean over "walking away" from Dayz, but at least he has passion for what he works on.

[@Upuauta]

Would be interesting to know how many refunds were made.

[@DailyFrankPeter]

I've applied on steam and didn't get one.

[@jesusrv2009]

I got my refund but because I requested it the next day I bought it haha

[@fazbeargaming8731]

I hope they at least do something with the franchise

[@SpeedyGwen]

to tell u, a game should NEVER be delisted, having a big dislcaimer on its page telling a short verssion of whats hapening is the best thing to do but removing a game that many people still play is the worst thing to do and a good way to again erase a part of video game history that shouldnt be forgoten oor inacessible I played it at launch and I was dissapointed, but after playing again a year later and again recently, its not a bad game, it does has performance issues worst than ksp1 and has very big bugs here and there but its not a bad game, its probably not worth 40€ tho, maybe 20 or 30€ but not more (tho I have the exact same opinion for price for ksp one which I got for like 15€ back when it was in early devlopement) and seeing some people online make actual videos on ksp 2 and it being amazing content, the game isnt bad and shouldnt be taken down, its maybe too expensive and abandoned but its not a bad game !

[@stevenalbano5686]

An investor would value it as an investment, not on how much was spent by the current owner. I would suspect the games would be no more than 10 million based on current sales. Anything more would be how much they can be convinced the brand itself is worth.

[@1988DanielJ]

They can make more money by updating the enhanced edition for consoles, as people are more likely to buy a completed game.

[@choutca]

Edit : it seems people don't understand what "If I was" mean. if i was the owner of KSP2, i would lower the price to like 1 ~ 5€ and "focus" on KSP3 (make KSA KSP3)

[@1000-THR]

okay but i like the kitties

[@delayed_control]

Problem is that the owner is a private equity, they don't care. And Dean Hall is not gonna license KSP out of them, either they sell it or they can fuck off.

[@MrCalland]

Imagine KSA and ksp combining you take your kerbal to a system and find the kittens 😂

[@m.streicher8286]

Why on earth would the ksa devs want to be involved with this disaster?

[@arfazero1]

Some one ping me when the class action lawsuit goes down

[@donaldpetersen2382]

I have no hope for KSP2, frankly never did💔

[@realnarwhal]

probably the best choice I ever made was refunding the game day 1 after buying it and try playing it for an hour, literally never bought it again after and only pirated it lmao, really dodged a bullet there

[@bram13666]

Take Two should disappear.

[@quantumac]

In a perfect world, the new owners would hand KSP over to harvester in exchange for a percentage of future profits. That's in a perfect world, mind you. Not this one. No, we don't live in that world. Personally, all I ever wanted from KSP2 was VR support. I'd love to see the universe from a kerbal's perspective.

[@Wurtoz9643]

There are mods for ksp 1

[@dosmastrify]

At this point what do you feel is a fair price for ksp2?

[@ShadowZone]

9.99 It's not like there is nothing you can do with it.

[@sailor5853]

It's worth essentially nothing. When you buy something unfinished your value is the hope it will become something great. When you buy KSP2 you are left hopeless and with your wallet lighter, as it is the price should be negative. Imagine buying a punch in the face.

[@user-zp6ff2gr4n]

​@ShadowZone it's wild they never went full court press on multiplayer. There are thousands of players who would pay big money every month for the experience.

[@RealTallestSkil]

@@user-zp6ff2gr4n Given the history of the codebase, it simply wouldn't have been possible at all with the way the game was coded. Even coded correctly, time acceleration would have been a major, overarching problem. Would it have operated on mutual consent? “[Player 1] wants to change time from 1x to 4x, do you agree? Yes/No” or something? You can’t have people on separate timescales; it would make no sense and it’s hard enough to get working netcode for realtime games.

[@user-zp6ff2gr4n]

@RealTallestSkil that's indirectly my point. To get a subscription model for MP would have been important from the get go. Which would have required new codebase. That what several studios wanted to do, but they made a terrible call trying to take a shortcut. Yes, there are ways to do MP time sync.

[@chrisroberts1773]

80k sales for what's essentially a tech demo? Not bad. Nobody should by KSP2. Everybody should by KSP1, it's still awesome.

[@king_br0k]

They could license the ip to rocketworks

[@Wurtoz9643]

I don’t know why either party would want to do that. Sure, it being a kerbal game would be fun, but anyone who is transferring from ksp won’t care most likely and any new people would probably rather Google KSA and see: space simulation game, fun. Rather than googling KSP, getting results for KSP 2, and seeing: Shut down, terrible game, don’t buy. The kerbal name has more or less been ruined by now.

[@ges7991]

I bought into the early access ---- on the first day. So many promises made, and not kept. Even if the new publisher puts out a completed new KSP2 game -- I'll stay away. It's all KSP original, and possibly (hopefully) KSA. But never never never early access again. I was the sucker this time. Let someone else be the sucker to prove out future early access.

[@flyingsharks3290]

100 players on KSP2 while there are 2.300 on KSP.... rofl XD

[@markfeemster8135]

There should be a class action lawsuit over this.

[@nilsdock]

to get the money back or for them to release the ip to the public domain

[@kapytanhook]

Never fall for prepurchase. There is never an upside. Sadly there are always people who will

[@SlavTiger]

id say maybe no mans sky, but that's the exception not the norm ​@@kapytanhook

[@kapytanhook]

@@SlavTiger sure, but even there you could have just waited until it was good

[@HalNordmann]

Right in the Steam description for Early Access, it states, paraphrasing, "these games are not finished, and might never be." No fraud - it doesn't require you to finish the game.

[@Anti_Woke]

KSP (the real one) is still the single-player game I've put most time into (>6,000 hours, and wrote a couple of books about it). Didn't buy KSP 2 - and have no intention of doing so - because it is over-priced, buggy, and incomplete.

[@prototy]

I hope no one buys any copies of either KSP or KSP2 so that the company looks at it as a loss and will sell it for any amount, allowing a passionate company to pick it up.

[@shadowslayer552]

Whoever sold out KSP in the beginning was an idiot.

[@kirmie44]

KSP 2 1/2 is going to happen

[@Codethe_Road]

They fumbled so hard; lol. KSP2 ran worse than KSP1. And people say it looks better, but it doesn't. It looks like a bunch of college kids made some under baked mods.

[@Th3Fr0ntMan001]

if it had come to console it would of hit 100 million easy

[@AP-ng1bm]

I might buy KSP2, when it’s released, so never.

[@MrSaywutnow]

Transparency? From a private equity firm? Lol, lmao even.

[@ariclundy1300]

❤

[@stekra3159]

Hasbro more Matel

[@Dirk102]

500$ per day? When you buy KSP2 on Steam while it has mostly negative reviews, you deserve to be scammed.

[@Palmar.001]

I hate the kitten concept, I can't describe why, its just a deep uneasiness. I wish they would change the name.

[@jameshughes3014]

there are still people buying ksp2?? how is that legal

[@Hedgehobbit]

How insane is it that someone hired the ex-employees of Annapurna Interactive when those employees have already shown that they will walk out if the owner makes a business decision they don't like. They are completely untrustworthy.

[@TechyBen]

No. Companies directors should not hold all the control. Kodus for the employees doing what's right.

[@m.streicher8286]

When the entire team quits in solidarity with their lead, they aren't the ones in the wrong. If you had experience you'd understand.

[@jorblinminepe]

Bro CANNOT live without being told what to do

[@ChrisHöppner]

Do you even remotely have a mental concept of how hard you have to fuck up as a CEO to have literally everyone walk out on you?

[@sunslayer553]

Looks like the kittens aren't going anywhere

[@OscarJarman-d4s]

What

[@rdkilla6414]

knew KSP2 was a scam the second it had a steam page i started getting youtube ads. when the advertising budget is bigger than your development budget.

[@xcrisso]

iam really glad i did not buy alpha acces

[@MrHossie]

Stop Buying The Game!

[@JollyRogerAerospace]

I hate to say it but the KSP brand is dead. Long live KSA.

[@gsamelon]

you are already in the pockets of dean hall without even knowing the slightest about this venture

[@TomatOgorodow]

Didn't learn not to hold microphone inside his mouth before gta 6

[@DaDued]

never trusting ksp2 devs again i want my money back.

[@rikyx8011]

It's the publisher, Take Two, that shut down the studio, and it's the only one to blame and to be angry at, not the devs. Almost all KSP1/2 devs now are working on KSA.

[@DaDued]

@@rikyx8011 theyre working on KSA!?

[@ThePlecoPal]

Never pay more than 25$ for a game lol. Most games i purchase are less than 10$ when on sale.

[@AntonyK48]

First

[@MaticTheProto]

And?

[@homeless_man]

And?

[@shogun2215]

You're not

[@adomasjarmalavicius2808]

congrats

[@adomasjarmalavicius2808]

@ yes he is the first, i was there, when that happened