Food Theory: New York Pizza is BEST... and I Can Prove It!

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Theorists, do you have a favorite pizza? Not topping, but TYPE of pizza? Is it the thin and floppy New York style or deep dish Chicago? Well, today we are taking a side... sort of. We are diving in to find what makes New York pizza have its unique flavor. What is the secret ingredient? Get ready to take a big, cheesy bite out of this mystery!
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Credits:
Writers: Matthew Patrick, Zach Stewart and Justin Kuiper
Editors: Koen Verhagen and Pedro Freitas
Sound Editor: Yosi Berman
#Pizza #PizzaRecipe #NewYork #NewYorkPizza #ChicagoPizza #Food #Recipe #FoodTheory #MatPat #GameTheory #FilmTheory

[@cacahuete1456]

as a pastry chef, this video is really interesting ! I kinda want to try doing the same recipe with different water sources to see it for myself

[@EmeraldEyesEsoteric]

Yeah, I want to try a pizza made with Liquid Death water.

[@Confron7a7ion7]

I want to see what would happen if you first purified the water as much as you can and then add sodium. Then the same thing but with salt. Just to see if it's that easy to replicate.

[@johnwatters1496]

@@EmeraldEyesEsoteric wouldn’t that just be acid

[@pronkster9550]

I Would love to see a video about it :D

[@luis-wc6cl]

wothah is wotah

[@hetrodynegaming8907]

I have often heard from travelers that "People outside Seattle just don't make Starbucks coffee the same way" Based on your water science I am now wondering if Starbucks recipies are just calibrated to our water and that is the reason... Followup theory?

[@tiacho2893]

The local SBs where I live in Canada all have RO machines to make almost pure water (kinda like Aquafina). I do find that the flavour of milk can vary. I don't think the water supply is the issue. On a related note, I have heard the Coors made from actual Rocky mountain water is a lot better.

[@kamaratke4043]

Ding ding! Every ingredient in your food/drink effects the taste. Even the water. Case in point, go look at how beer is made............

[@brianargo4595]

You saying it's not supposed to taste like charcoal? That doesn't sound right

[@ricksanchez9798]

In America that wouldn't surprise me, after all, the fluoridated water is the only way they can fool people and the "8 glasses a day" "recommendation" from shill "doctors" helps them keep those people mind numbed into submission....... no other country in the world has flouride in their water supplies because no other country is "worth the effort"......

[@melym9910]

Well idk if this helps but water is very important when you talk about food. In the video Matt mentions the total hardness test which I thought was going to be the focus point. The hardness of water is suuper important, for coffe it is better to use hard water because it helps to extract the phenolic compounds in the coffe thats why it taste different with different water. Anyway I am curious about the results they got for the hardness test because hard water inhibits the proteases in the flour that break the gluten. The bread should also taste better because the salts will slow down de fermentation allowing the flavors to develop

[@josephchandler8828]

The reason San Francisco is known for its sour dough is actually due to the unique micro climate of the bay area. Because San Francisco is surrounded on 3 sides by water it is covered by fog a lot (seriously for 108 days a year and overcast 105 days a year). This in turn makes the city basically a refrigerator that sits between 40 and 60 degrees year round. In this unique climate a specific strain of yeast can grow, and that yeast is what makes SF sour dough have its unique taste.

[@hehehehehawmoment]

"surrounded on 3 sides by water" is called peninsula

[@realdragon]

Or because they make sour dough. Sour dough is more to do with fermentation time than what kind of water they use, everyone around the world can do sour dough, 24h fermentation is good time to get strong flavor though you could ferment for even a week

[@LuxuryWax]

Alright so I’m surprised no one has said this, but in Futurama, Fry is a pizza delivery boy in NYC before he gets frozen. In later episodes, Bender competes against a celebrity chef in a cook off and uses a secret ingredient of pure flavor that turned out to be… WATER, PLAIN OL’ H2O

[@maxpowers9129]

I think it was a mixture of water and LSD if I remember correctly.

[@chaosworrier4468]

As a beer brewer, I can confirm that water can make a HUGE difference. Indeed, many beer styles came about purely due to the hardness, pH and mineral adjuncts in it. Most good brewers will start with the purest water that they can source (nominally rain water) and then add to suit, based on the beer style in production (although some will take the local source and then strip it bare via reverse osmosis, or the like).

[@chaosworrier4468]

@@kindred8359 I'm sorry but what are you trying to convey? I used neither the terms "pined" nor "pinned"?

[@kindred8359]

@@chaosworrier4468 tf

[@johndemore6402]

making a potential great beer mediocre at best rain water sounds interesting though kitchen experiment

[@kingmonocleblob9548]

Yum, bread soda.

[@chaosworrier4468]

@@johndemore6402 I have honestly lost count of how many professional breweries that I have visited use it. Then again, nigh on all of them are at least semi-rural (and quite a few in mountainous regions), so have no problem with pollutants, etc in the water.

[@KiranasOfRizon]

Odd thought: when making future experiments involving water, you may consider using distilled water as a control, since it shouldn't contain any fluoride or chlorine in it.

[@SirRobertSpriggs]

Exactly

[@user-em4ni4ce7l]

Not so sure about that... while it might be a good idea for control, distilled water doesn't contain many of the other salts found in tap water (meaning chlorine is not the only factor missing), and while I'm not certain of it, I think yeast needs some of those ions such as magnesium and calcium (which as far as I know are not found in distilled water unless artificially added) in order to work.

[@Pla63]

I have to be there in there for you to go to lunch or dinner with your friends and friends for lunch or lunch or dinner or something for lunch and

[@jameszawislak436]

That's a really good point. I'm surprised MatPat didn't do that

[@Naokarma]

Distilled water is terrible for you. Even if distilled water were used as a base, minerals should be added to make up for what's lost, such as a tiny amount of sodium, magnesium and calcium salts. The amount added should be measured and controlled, but not left out entirely.

[@Caydog01]

My initial thoughts on why the doughs were so different were that it might have something to do with the use of volumetric cup measurements as opposed to weight based ounce or gram measurements but this whole episode went WAY deeper than I thought it would and it kinda blew my mind

[@noobshot9721]

Italy will remember that

[@whitenight7265]

You need a part 2 to this theory, using distilled water and adding your own additives with the distilled as a control. What percentage of each chemical gives you the perfect dough? How much is too much? How can people make the perfect NY Pizza when they dont live in NY?

[@BJCMXY]

This would probably be a food theory Mega Project. 🤣 Edit: NaCl - Sodium Chloride - AKA Table Salt NaF - Sodium Flouride Salts are whe. You take elements from the first and second column on the left side of the periodic table and combine them with the likes of Chlorine, Fluorine, Bromine, Iodine, and not sure, but give the placement of Asatine, it may also have a salt as well. Not sure... But I think even Hydrogen has a possible salt form. 🤔😂 Outside of Potassium, Sodium, Magnesium, Calcium, Most of the other salts are considered toxic to deadly...If my Memory serves me. Lithium Salts being the variants that while not good for you, Can be safely used for treatment of mental health issues, as long as proper precautions are taken before, and during treatment to avoid the negative effects of this particular salt. Also, all of this is based on the stuff I learned in High School Chemistry class. 😂 Who says Science isn't a useful subject?

[@staris3712]

Not saying a follow up video couldn't be cool but distilled water would typically mean a low chlorine level same as the NJ water tested and would just need to add extra salt, like a pinch, to replicate close enough the extra fluoride.

[@lori5774]

I had the same idea. My dad is from New York. I would love if I could give him a taste of proper new York pizza without the 20 hour drive.

[@treazure]

@@staris3712 Table salt is not the same as fluoride. You would have to make sure you're adding NaF, not NaCl.

[@pXnTilde]

In part 2 maybe we can also address how he concluded that nowhere in the US can make good NY style pizza because two nearby cities have different water. What? Most of the time you can literally just look up water tests for cities and know exactly what's in them, chart them out, and have real data instead of some pool testing equipment

[@cordelianoir6490]

For San Francisco Sourdough, it's actually the air that's the secret ingredient. It's the sea spores specific to our area that turned french sourdough into the SF sourdough we love today! Although the mother (starter) can be transported anywhere, SF sourdough still has a distinct taste if it's made in the Bay vs elsewhere, even different parts of the bay area!

[@voiceoreason9884]

Not to mention the area in France that it comes from is a very similar climate that can only be produced on the west coast of a continent.

[@robinjeybones1647]

yeah ! my great great grandmother literally refused to eat sourdough unless it was from SF, though she always said it had to do with altitude specifically haha

[@lazarusclark3307]

Partly correct. The particular environment around the SF Bay is friendly to a particular bacteria which has taken up residence in all the yeast cultures in the area. It is the interaction between this bacteria and the yeast which produces the unique flavour. ( Lactobacillus San Francisco)

[@johnnycage6676]

@@voiceoreason9884 cap

[@voiceoreason9884]

@@johnnycage6676 ?

[@slowedlearner1852]

As a New Yorker, the beginning was SO TRUE. It’s burning hot in the summer, and freezing in the winter. Anyways, nice video!

[@Guardian2]

Do me a favor. Never try making pizza again because those came out terribly

[@ellucasso4501]

"all yeast-based bread has some level of alcohol in it" Next food theory: Can you get drunk on bread?

[@preda0462]

that would be ridiculous in itself but they've done eating christmas tree 2 times

[@hatboi124]

I think that's a disorder that exists, I feel like I've heard of it.

[@win-rawr1096]

@@hatboi124 auto brewery syndrome!

[@Geo-co9pd]

I dont think so since alcohol cooks off easily

[@thelegendofenternity1709]

Some people actually do get drunk from eating carbohydrate-rich foods. It is called Auto brewery syndrome.

[@Wilted.lycoris]

I live in Florida,a few years ago there was a New York style pizza place that prided itself on being authentic New York pizza. The owner was from Brooklyn and this man was so committed to bringing New York pizza to Florida that he sourced his water straight from New York. Like,had a tanker truck filled with nothing but water delivered to his restaurant.

[@daniofinch]

I live in Florida too, I was JUST about to comment about this!! Can't believe the guy that we all snickered at actually had it right all along 🤦

[@Wilted.lycoris]

@@daniofinch Bruh we all thought he was loony,but the pizza was good so we didn’t say anything Lmao

[@SpaceWizardCosplay]

Giant Pizza in Hollywood, FL. He has his water shipped in from Brooklyn.

[@Wilted.lycoris]

@@SpaceWizardCosplay I’m pretty sure that’s the place I’m thinking of! I haven’t been in awhile since it’s a bit of a drive for me,but I remember loving the pizza.

[@danielladner374]

I wonder if distilling the water would work just as well.

[@Real11BangBang]

The Metatron sends his regards 🐴

[@lifesqa5851]

I am from New York but I'm also albanian, in albania there are two dishes with some form of bread that I really love, Flia, and Petla. Petla are the simplest to make and are basically just fried dough. If you want to make either of these you should try looking up a recipe because I don't know it.

[@empanada_bot]

The amount of times my dad told me that water is the reason sourdough bread tastes so good in San Fran and why pizza is so good in New York but he could not tell me why. Thank you Matpat for answering this question for me more than a decade after I had asked it.

[@conduit64]

San Fran sourdough likely has nothing to do with the water. Sourdoughs are made using wild yeasts and bacteria, which is what gives the bread it's flavor. San Fran's microzoa, the specific strains of yeast and bacteria present in the wild, just happen to lend it's self to a very tasty sourdough.

[@domehammer]

You can't drink the water in NY unless your used to it. It tastes EXTREMELY bad and I couldn't drink it when a kid. Even when thirsty as a kid I struggled to drink the water at my grandmothers because she had city water. For how it tastes it's like if you squeezed a lemon into water. Grew up on well water which tasted so good I miss it every time I drink water.

[@fredericabitch3983]

@@domehammer bullshit and our water is clean it shows you ain’t from New York

[@xagain3106]

@@fredericabitch3983 Fluoride being a Rat Poison doesn't make your water Clean. It's nasty AF.

[@aaron-gz]

@@fredericabitch3983 Calm down. The video already mentioned New York has different sources of water. You were lucky or got used to the water taste.

[@galviust6243]

Went to Culinary school and the sour dough in San Francisco has to do with the natural bacteria in the air. Much like macro-organisms microorganisms have places where they live, sourdough relies on the natural bacteria in the air and flower to ferment and get its flavor. So it’s actually the air that’s the secret ingredient there. Which may be funnier than water.

[@hottuna2006]

I would add humidity levels and atmospheric pressure as well. Bread is a finnicky product and every ingredient and component has an effect.

[@ambisweetiepie]

Came here to say the same thing! The foggy weather also lends an ideal environment for the yeast and the lactobacilli. If I recall correctly, they tried building a bakery a little further outside of SF, and despite it using the same mother dough, the resulting bread didn't have the same taste. That's how they found out it was the air and climate that was affecting the taste.

[@byoungcheolwooandy2566]

I can smell the part two vid if matpat sees this comment (and the two other replies)

[@emmaporter8160]

I live less than three hours outside of SF and I can attest that this is the case. My mom bought a sourdough starter from a SF company and for the first few weeks it tasted like SF sourdough, but the longer it lived outside the Bay Area the less good it tasted.

[@galviust6243]

@@emmaporter8160 yeah! That’s due to the natural bacteria in the air/flour slowly replacing those from the starter

[@OpticBlast-yk5hf]

I have an idea for a video. I’ve gone to Disney World several times, and the water fountain quality differs a lot. Some of the water is pretty good, but Magic Kingdom water tastes awful, but it’s always crazy hot and you’re thirsty, so you drink it. You should do a tier list for different water fountains and explain why they all taste so different.

[@hoorayboobs]

As a brewer, we use different "salts" (Calcium Chloride and Gypsum mostly) and either lactic acid or baking soda to raise or lower pH and to imitate water chemistry from certain regions. there's no reason you couldn't use the same methods for doughmaking. There's a formula to it and it might be a bit difficult to emulate the process on a smaller scale. Long story short, you can manipulate your water to be NY water, just takes a bit of chemistry.

[@michaelnishiguchi3176]

This is a huge aspect of coffee as well. You could have the same beans, grinder and brewer as your favorite coffee shop but it will still taste different because their water is different.

[@Floofy_3421]

Woah! Thats sooo cool ! :O

[@4whomittolz846]

one of the reason why Australia, particularly Melbourne, is world renowned for their coffee and cafe culture.

[@Sinestra666]

As a NY Italian with a family in the pizza biz, it's actually pretty cool to finally understand just *why* our water makes the difference. We always knew that it was the water, and knew that it was the chemicals in the water that were doing it, but finally knowing exactly which ones doing what is actually pretty neat! Great video, Matt!

[@slingshotnerd]

Gabagool

[@RodRombauer]

Aaaand... if you filter out even more chlorine and add back in more fluoride, your family pizza will be even MORE New York than New York pizza.

[@ricksanchez9798]

It's the flouride that keeps your mind numb and prevents you from thinking for yourselves, either that or the poor coding that created you......

[@Sly-Moose]

Sorry but the thinner a pizza crust is to me, the worse it is

[@jlevitsk]

You should do a thing on NYC water specifically. It has sea monkeys in it that make pizza and bagels so good. I was hoping in your pizza story about NY pizza you would have had NYC water because it is even more unique than the other 3 samples you had.

[@bibstyr]

excuse me sea monkeys?

[@karlm7592]

​@@bibstyr😂😂😂😂😂

[@officialluckyturn]

The metatron wants to have a word with you 😉 this is a mess

[@neshrammc]

I remember a Food Network episode a long time ago where a restaurant had a whole water treatment system (filtration, remineralization, etc.) just to adjust the pizza water to match where the owner came from. He started the restaurant because he was unhappy with how the pizza was different, and after a lot of testing they determined it was the water, and so all the water equipment to adjust the composition.

[@RaymonWilliams]

I’ve heard the same “it’s the water” comment when it comes to the rolls used for Philly cheesesteaks…in Philly. The rolls are hard to duplicate outside of the area. I think Amoroso rolls are the status quo roll (granted I’m a transplant to eastern PA, not a native, live ABB for from Philly).

[@daniel.romano]

Amaroso are what many swear by (lived in Philly suburbs most of my life). In fact, when I lived in New York City, there used to be a place called 99 Miles to Philly. It was the only good place to get cheesesteaks in Manhattan. I asked the owner what their secret was. Turns out, they would ship in Amaroso buns every morning. Too bad the place is out of business now

[@dananichols349]

Could be. Philly is right on the banks of the Delaware River, so maybe getting some of the same water that NJ and NY does.

[@dragonwonderer4667]

As a fellow Philadeplhian, I can confirm this. I do love a good cheesesteak from Philly and dont think Ive ever had one better anywhere else XD

[@damienjoseph25]

I was always told as a kid that the real reason the water makes the pizza taste so well is because of the pollution that’s left over in the water. My dad who’s from Brooklyn told me the leftover minerals in the water actually add to the flavor, hence why hotdogs boiled in New York hotdogs stands taste WAYY better then if you boiled them at home

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

Funny comment to add to this, as I've seen this come up elsewhere, also note that your location may also drastically affect things in other ways: air pressure and elevation have also been things that have affected cooking recipes over time as well. Higher elevations can screw with the structure of materials in the baking process in particular, requiring more stabilizers or bake times.

[@klekikork]

I was just watching the try guys video where Keith eats all the pizza in NYC and they kept saying the pizza was terrible. I love this timing Edit: OMG ALL THE LIKES, QUICK SAY SOMETHING SMART

[@SugarRomeo]

Same lol

[@NotTheZodiac]

What are the odds!?!

[@ONGHacker3133]

Early 3 minute replay lol.

[@Cosmic.Fortuna]

Literally was about to comment xD

[@mirrormarvel5751]

Thank the KZbin gods for this perfect timing

[@Mrhappy1227]

We also say the same thing for the bagels in NY/NJ, it's all in the water 👍

[@danteedud4724]

Nice

[@Kai_iax]

proud nyer

[@Judicial_Gloom]

We may be cold up in the northeast, both in our weather and our people, but we make good bread in general

[@joed6141]

Can’t go wrong with a porkroll, egg, and cheese on a hard roll either

[@tommycaiazzo7985]

As someone from north jersey who has family in New York I can confirm

[@SiennaPlayz_002]

Watching this while eating the best homemade pizza I love all your videos and subscribed to all of your channels

[@Kami-the-Foxy]

Apparently some of our pizza here in Eastern PA is also considered on par with New York. I always thought it was because of proximity and people, but maybe our water is similar

[@WolvenSpectre]

This reminds me on how in the TV series Elementary they went into looking into a mystery of the week and did a real deep dive on how, contrary to popular opinion, New York has abnormally high quality drinking water and most water quality issues in the city break down to plumbing or yet repaired water supply issues. The writers found out so much about the interesting qualities and high quality of the water, they made it the reason that their Sherlock Holmes moved to New York City from London. Beyond the initial backstory of the series, and being both a Tea snob and and being very particular, and since he had the whole world to move to and had no set destination he researched it. He concluded the water was better and was good for tea.

[@ajrobbins368]

I love Elementary.

[@tiacho2893]

I completely forgot about that ep.! And yeah, NYC has some great water and the supply is very closely monitored. Any issues with water is almost always between the water main and your tap. Most cities would love the same drinkable water NYC uses to flush their toilets and hose down the sidewalks.

[@user-fc1fo8yk6f]

I'd love to see you do a video on the practicality of Dippin' Dots. Comparing they're compacted volume of ice cream to other ice cream brands or generic tubs to find out just how much more you're paying per part of ice cream. I just think this subject is interesting and could even be one of those theories where you backdoor into the worl of ice cream more.

[@russtdragonking8004]

This is great I really want to see this becase I always felt that dipping dots were great but I was getting less where if I got a scoop I would get more icecream.

[@L_zie2142]

That’s a great idea and we can also go into the rabbit-hole history of dippin dots (my childhood icecream)

[@user-fc1fo8yk6f]

@@L_zie2142 I'd honestly love that

[@Narra0002]

@@L_zie2142 both great ideas

[@user-fc1fo8yk6f]

Maybe even talk about the myth that Dippin' dot refrigerators were used to store mass amounts of the covid vaccine, I just think there's some interesting video material from dippin' dots

[@gabrielboliocuevas2530]

I'm mexican-italian. I don't take food lightly in general. I follow you, but this time, you need to take back what you said; you had crossed a delicate line that is not forgettable

[@fuckin49]

This isn't that different to what he's been doing on his other channels for years now: Embarrassing himself on topics he has no idea about and hasn't properly researched. Here, he used the wrong water, changed the water content between pizzas, didn't keep oven temp and baking time consistent, handled the doughs differently, seemingly didn't even knead them, spread the dough differently and made three absolutely preposterous pizzas. As I said, embarrassing. But pretty much the same method we're used to from all his other works.

[@F4Wildcat]

i am a simple belgian but even i am with you on this.

[@AlucardArkaine]

@@fuckin49 Exactly! The kneading was horrible and didn't develop the gluten well enough, the way they floured the bench guaranteed there was waaaaaayyyyyy too much extra flour added to the dough, and likely failed to properly heat the oven or stone which can lead to products not baking off fast enough and falling flat. As a baker and a person who learned to make authentic pizza dough from an italian, it's just embarrassing. This is not something you go into as an amateur and get the correct method straight away. Anyone can try to make pizza, but you shouldn't test without knowing how it all works and what COULD go wrong and how to fix it.

[@sanchitagolder]

yall arent wrong in saying he might have made horrible pizza, but this wasnt a tutorial on making pizza; he wanted to demonstrate the difference water will bring to the dough and he did that pretty aptly- just mixing the ingredients equally and checking the leavened dough. all the points he proposed like how slimy or otherwise the dough would be, aligned with the chemistry of the local water compositions he was checking and its interaction with flour+yeast // i dont see the final product ie baked pizza as relevant in this experiment (so no point judging his kneading etc)

[@AlucardArkaine]

@@sanchitagolder It wasn't a tutorial on making pizza, no, but if he wanted to be properly scientific in the approach he would need to eliminate all factors that could make it different except for water. There are several mistakes that were made that would have caused a difference between the doughs other than the water, that is the point of the critique.

[@EricBoren]

This is a really fascinating topic. As you can imagine water is really important for brewing beer, and we manipulate our water all the time to achieve specific effects. I think it would have been interesting to get each of the waters professionally tested so we could see all of the relevant ions. It's theoretically possible to build the NY water profile up from a reverse osmosis base, so if that's really the secret we should be able to make this style of pizza anywhere! Then again, as you mentioned we don't know which water source was used. In the beer-brewing world, trying to match water levels of different places around the world can be really tricky; you might have test data for a particular water source, but you never know how the brewery is treating the water, for example just pre-boiling it would cause some of those ions to precipitate out.

[@MoonWielder]

You know, for a 1$ pizza from NYC, it's one of the best pizzas I've ever tasted, and it's very fortunate to get. Even the price is so reasonable.

[@jurggss]

i feel like i see u in every comment section lmao

[@halfsine]

stop being everywhere

[@CR1MSONACE]

@whaaa t No I didn't enjoy anything about you

[@CR1MSONACE]

@Tinder in real life 🅥 Shut up. No one falls for it.

[@defnoodles9528]

Wanda: Did somebody say... *REASONABLE*

[@bexyPTX]

Would’ve been interesting if bagels were also a part of this test, as it’s another differently bready food that people say is much better in NYC than anywhere else

[@sustainablegremlin]

Bagels are definitely better in NY because of the water. I am a New Yorker, so I am qualified to make this statement.

[@danielspringer406]

Related story. About a decade ago, a few of my friends moved from Long Island to San Francisco. We all love bagels, but they discovered that the ones there didn't taste right. So my friends brought in water from Long Island to make their own bagels from scratch. Instantly better than anything they found there. Their new friends in California even agreed, once they got the quality right. Water is a powerful ingredient.

[@STANDARDISSUE_]

Massachusetts bagels are pretty good too

[@kaileighcolmorgan7516]

Bagels i feel like would be the same. Bagels in NY and NJ are so good. Anywhere else I've had them they're not great at all. So water may be the thing

[@Lavos5181]

There was a test done like this but bagels and pretty much the same conclusion.

[@GDRking_yt]

As an Italian living in Italy I must say the freshness and quality of the ingredients make all the difference. Also I don’t know about the taste, but both the dow and the final results look horrible and not like pizza should be like.

[@ThugHunterfromIsrael]

yeah well your country hasnt done a thing for pizza ever in history. Jersey and New York made pizza what it is, and the Italian-Americans who did that are going unrecognized because you snobby clout-stealing euros can't handle Americans doing your food better'n you.

[@user-nn3vv5mo7d]

Boo

[@captainnyan-nyan2005]

​@@ThugHunterfromIsraeluh... Not even Italian. Italy is the reason why we have pizza in the first place. You don't get an egg without the chicken first

[@ViceAdmiralHoratioNeIson]

While I give credit to Italy for inventing pizza, it is clearly inferior and Americans have perfected their creation

[@captainnyan-nyan2005]

@@ViceAdmiralHoratioNeIson no. Not really. Americans only took a spin of the Italian creation. Before you say something about Italy comparing to America. I would suggest going to Naples and trying their pizza first. Otherwise. What you have said is invalid

[@kirandude303]

Here in Andhra Pradesh ( and other parts of South India, Dosa is a very popular dish. It looks like a thin, big and spicy pan cake but it is totally different. You should definitely try that, mat pat. And possibly try to make a video about it.

[@gmoney4980]

I use to be a water softener installer... & had so many pizza places ask for a certain water for their pizzas. We used minerals, chlorine, carbon (to eliminate the chlorine), and other reverse osmosis techniques to get their "perfect" water.

[@bradendaniell9375]

Me: “I bet it tastes different because of the water in NYC” MatPat: “It’s because of love” Me: “Sure… why not.” MatPat: “No of course it’s not love, it’s water.” Me: “Once again, sure.”

[@ronik7102]

honestly i think chicago pizza is good

[@thepolishtech1552]

I wonder in which state pierogis taste best

[@alil636]

Ok?

[@Escorducarla]

I kind of figured that's where he was going too, because I've heard the same thing about NYC bagels.

[@claraberg1214]

I had this exact same thought and conversation in my own head 🤣🤣

[@EksaStelmere]

The third best pizza I've ever eaten was in Bayonne, New Jersey. New York-adjacent pizza is not the best for me, but it's definitely right at the top. Also, representing from the New Orleans area, can confirm beignets are fantastic.

[@yuhaino]

funniest part is that this applies to coffee as well. more specifically espresso. ask anyone that has an espresso set up, other than what bean youre using, the water is just as important.

[@lynxbay403]

There’s a pizza place called “Moon River Pizza” that was based in Florida, and made a new location and instead of using the water in the new location, shipped water from the first location so that the pizza would taste just as great.

[@Spade1350]

Theres a place near me in Pasco Florida called Rossi Italian Ristorante that does the same. Only pizza I've had outside of the the tristate area that tastes identical to what I had when I lived there. Thought I was doomed to only eat meh pizza for the rest of my life til I found it.

[@Woodland_Adventures]

Mooon river, wider than a mile!

[@LassBisharp]

@@Woodland_Adventures I'm crossing you in style some day!

[@thekingofgoldfish]

I know the place, very good pizza indeed!

[@stewarde17]

heard of a sandwich shop in Florida doing the same for their subs shipping water from phili so they can get the soft bread that make phili cheesesteaks iconic

[@LonelySandwich]

The timing between this and Keith's pizza video, I cannot 😂😂😂

[@CEOofBingus]

IKR i just watched that video before this one

[@dailydoseofsa5250]

Did I ask? No I didn't buddy.

[@ashleycortes]

For sure, I thought they did some sort of collab at first

[@csgarbage188]

Who’s keith

[@bug7055]

Mat on The Try Guys would be fun

[@jacobhempel1855]

You should make a food theory episode on how patting down your pizza with napkins does/does not change the nutritional value significantly, since I see people doing this a lot.

[@SkzRacha83]

As someone who doesn't quite like the shape circle I hope some restaurant will start making the janktaculas shapes that mat and steph did for their pizzas its oso kinda like a work of art + Im a huge fan of thin crust

[@FranklyBuilt]

Being born and raised in NJ then traveling to Japan, England and other places; I can 100% confirm this. And it’s always been said it’s because of the water, mainly the chlorine and fluoride. Neat.

[@EmeraldEyesEsoteric]

Now I want to try a Liquid Death Pizza

[@laplthelullemann]

I mean Japan and England aren’t famous for pizza to be fair…do your “other places” include Italy?

[@dave4342]

Why compare such a beautiful country like England by putting in the same sentence as japan

[@FranklyBuilt]

@@laplthelullemann Italy, Greece, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Spain to name a few. Pizza in Japan was actually pretty amazing. Trust me when I say we went out of our way to find good pizza everywhere we went.

[@FranklyBuilt]

@@dave4342 England? Beautiful? I think you looked at the wrong pictures on google images 😂

[@minipancho94]

would love to see this recreated with additional controls. you could get some DI water and vary the amounts of chlorine and fluoride in it, in addition to simply running cultures of yeast with those waters to determine the impact on their populations.

[@UV980]

I've heard of the SF sourdough thing, I think it is because of baking with constant high humidity from being next to a very foggy bay

[@LReBe7]

Okay, so: I'd love to see you do this experiment with deionized water, to which you just add the necessary trace minerals (NaCl, CaCO3, NaF, ...) and see if you can make the New York style pizza that way! It's probably fairly expensive to use DI water for pizza, but I guess that it could be economically viable outside New York.

[@freeziac]

I can attest to the regional differences in water, just this past semester we did a water hardness and pH test on three samples collected around campus, and they all produced very different results. So I'd love to see a follow-up on this theory as well! Maybe exploring baked goods, or like a baguette which uses steam to get a crispier crust.

[@alaaismail7937]

imagine being friends with matpat and him just asking you to bring him 5 gallons of water from new jersey lol

[@evabelle5284]

My grandma asked us to bring as much as possible when we moved from the NJ/NY area to be by her😂

[@Someone-dy5ui]

And remember that time MatPat just asked team theorists to collect multiple coke alternatives? Or very specific burgers with very specific sides? Or just asked them to all to lick at the same time?

[@PresidentShrubbery]

@@evabelle5284 your grandma knows what's up lmao

[@evabelle5284]

@@PresidentShrubbery we brought her a 5 gallon jug of it in the moving truck for her 😶

[@Evil_Morty79]

I really love your video!!! Now I am trying this myself

[@bobwade9530]

This video brings to mind the "It's only real Champagne if it's from the Champagne province of France, otherwise, it's just sparkling wine" saying. Just as you said the most innocuous tiny detail could make for a surprising difference in the end product, is there a difference between Champagne and similar sparkling wine? If so, what could it be? The water like with the pizza? The soil the grapes were grown in? Something to do with the pollination with native plants or insects?

[@freddyhainault624]

When ever I was asked why NY pizza was better I always said the water because of the fluoride, but I love how this solidified my argument and brought it a step further.

[@ricksanchez9798]

It's the flouride that keeps you stupid and makes you believe whatever the boobtube tells you......

[@KristofferEngstrom]

We have our own well in our yard, and the water tests shows we have very low content of flouride. Still I manage to get a nice crust. Im not sure it has that big of an effect. I really think other stuff is at play here.

[@Sly-Moose]

Sorry but the thinner a pizza crust is to me, the worse it is

[@ricksanchez9798]

@@KristofferEngstrom no it really does have a huge effect..... that flouride numbs your mind and makes you believe anything the boobtube tells you........ it's why the nazis wanted to use it with Russian televised subliminal messaging........

[@Liliana_the_ghost_cat]

@@Sly-Moose same

[@squideze]

Matt, did you also know that there are unique yeast cultures in each location too? For that reason, sourdough (made from wild captured yeast starter) is totally different in San Fran than anywhere else. Similar to the water thing, but also another factor to consider.

[@dreamfirefight9456]

Pretty sure this also tries to bacteria too. A certain bacteria found only in France is the key item in how they are able to make Parmesan Cheese.

[@MasterEGamer]

This is the same concept for beer making, but just focusing on the water. Beer, which only requires four ingredients (water, hops, grains, and yeast) have a plethora of variations and flavors due to the different water chemistry present, the different level of alpha-acids (that’s what gives the hops its bitterness), the various grains sugars and carbohydrate chains, and the various yeast compounds which end up flavoring the final product (like the sourdough mentioned in the episode). Would be interesting to see what kind of theory has the details on that!

[@arikat9529]

It would be really cool to see a Food Theory about WHY people from certain regions of the US like different foods. Like why people in the midwest love ranch dressing so much. Is it a cultural thing? Is it because some plants grow better in some regions than in others? That'd just be a really cool theory to see. :>

[@ohheytherefriend]

While the water may make a difference, it’s REALLY hard to get consistent results with baked food without measuring the flour by WEIGHT. The way you scoop the flour can pack the flour so differently as to produce significantly different results.

[@finagarcia2467]

EXACTLY!

[@ilmenaglar]

I agree! Baking is precise and when I saw that (and the water/flour ratio) I was like "no no no, don't add that much flour on the counter! Don't add more water after! Be precise with measurements with each ingredient! Lol".

[@bbgun061]

He also should have used distilled or reverse osmosis filtered water as a control.

[@conduit64]

Yep, I cringed when he said he was measuring his flour by volume.

[@marcvanh]

Not only that, but I suspect he killed the yeast in the NJ dough. He said he was heating it to 110°. If one of them was off by just a few degrees, dead yeast. I find this much more likely for the reason the crust was half the thickness

[@jer103]

1:19 This is the biggest factor effecting things, thinking water is: clear, tasteless, odorless liquid Water also has minerals, or micronutrients (Iron, cobalt, chromium, iodine, copper, zinc). The water out of our local tap would eat away at the sink and tub. It would also leave a red residue from the iron. There's a lot of granite in my hometown. The underground water would be effected by this.

[@33pandagamer]

In the area where I live there is a lot of limestone. I can say for certain that the limestone affects the taste of the water.

[@samsaldate5828]

When I was younger I used to go hiking in some mountains in Oregon. There was an underground river that we knew where it was. Best water ever by far. So much so that it was like a completely different drink. I can’t help but wonder how good a pizza would be made from that water.

[@StRangerDC_Official]

In the D.C. Area, almost every grocery store has baguettes. Every bread company in the D.C. area has baguettes, and I also see these breads at restaurants called “Aussie rolls,” at least at the local sweetwater. The recipe is a secret, but I think they use pancake dough.

[@ArtNoctowl]

I'm from Long Island and we always talk about NY pizza being the best cause of the water. My grandfather tried to open up a NY style pizza place in New Hampshire and found he couldn't replicate NY pizza there because of the water. I've had NY style pizza in other states and it's not the same. It's really interesting how much of a difference it actually makes.

[@valkyrieregalia]

Maybe the trick would be to customize one's own water with a bit of chemistry and filtering control then. If it makes that big of a difference, it could give you a leg up.

[@isaacgreene8463]

Ironically the best new York style pizza I've had was actually in Wellington New Zealand

[@bbgun061]

Every NY style pizza I've had outside of NY has been super thin but never crispy. Maybe that's why I'm not impressed by it...

[@elhermanos2328]

Ct pizza is the best

[@mr.cheese8097]

i never lived in New York, but my mom grew up there. she's always talking about how the pizza we get is garbage compared to the New York pizza, and i knew it was because of the water, but i didn't know what made it special. so thanks for the information, MatPat!

[@ricksanchez9798]

Yep that flouride can make you believe anything......

[@Ernoiserniet]

It's not just the water that is the most important. It's the quality of all the ingredients. The most important part of a pizza is the making of the perfect dough. And this can only happen if all ingredients are perfect. Not just thenwater. I understand water is important but if you are a noob at dough making and have no knowledge of baking your pizza's will look like the once from this video. Adding more flour after the mass has risen (because it's still to wet), is too late. The new flour will not be part of the gluten. Gluten are created by folding the "connections" of the flour mass into each other (kneading). These connections keep your dough ferm, stretchy and filled with air pockets. Always make sure the dough is a good dough, before you set it aside to rest. For every dough ( not just pizza dough), also the right amount of ingredients is very important. Next to the right amounts, the moments of introduction of ingredients and the baking temperature are important. Also: Internationally? Really?

[@RodDornsife]

While living in California I was told by more than one pizza shop that weather (and humidity) have an effect on the quality and texture of a pizza. You didn't mention that. Any idea if that is true?

[@JohnDlugosz]

I figured this out in the early 90's. Reading books on bread baking, I learned that adding sugar and excessive yeast was done in order to get the expected 40 minute rise times. This was simply down to "quality of ingredients". But I found slow rise times (using only water, yeast, and flour) even when using the premium flour. Also read that spring water, not distilled water, is best because of the mineral content. So I did an experiment using yeast and sugar in a glass, testing tapwater, bottled spring water, and dechlorinated tap water. The difference in yeast activity was obvious and striking. BTW, you can remove chlorine using a pour-though charcoal filter.

[@etelindamoreno9718]

U Smart

[@dirkdiggler9482]

I've heard that spring water is not good for baking because the pH level is too high. I can see why distilled water is not good because it has no minerals in it at all, and yeast needs some. I just use regular tap water myself. You didn't say which water you found best for baking.

[@ChaseL16357]

I feel like they should have had a control pizza dough with distilled water. To see how that compares

[@qdllc]

And RO filtered water…just to see what would happen.

[@The_Void_Alchemist]

I recommend nanopure water

[@GusF0067]

holy mother of bots

[@JamesSmith-rb5lv]

And maybe add different types of salt to the water to see what that does.

[@block2533]

Exactly what I was thinking!

[@ShlokParab]

0:49 I'd like you had used a Carmen Sandiego reference instead of Wally/Waldo.

[@delta-31]

You should do Wisconsin cheese and understanding what state makes the best cheese!

[@patdav56]

When I heard "it's in the water", my first thought was a trick my family uses where we put a heavy duty cup of water in the oven/microwave alongside the food we're cooking, the evaporation of the moisture circulates and keeps the food from drying out.

[@thepotatolord3052]

Ye me too

[@myrigatoni]

This would make a good theory episode

[@Narra0002]

I do that to help the heat distribute evenly in the mic

[@treazure]

That's a trick I use to cook microwave popcorn faster and it gets almost all the kernels too. Microwave a cup of water before putting in the bag of popcorn.

[@pXnTilde]

you'd be better off with a damp paper towel over the food. Microwaving water risks superheating it, which can explode

[@turnipcrazy4602]

I can't believe the Try Guys released a video eating a bunch of pizza from NYC and now food theorist is showing how the pizza there is the best. Can't describe how perfect it is that I'm watching them one after another.

[@ricksanchez9798]

Taste is subjective and no body fucking cares what ANY critics think.......

[@Miss_Cryspe]

@@ricksanchez9798 A combined nearly 300K views in less than 5 hours begs to differ...

[@turnipcrazy4602]

@@ricksanchez9798 It's nice sometimes to hear other people's opinions. It expands your own opinions and interpretations on taste. So yeah some people care, because it's interesting to hear about.

[@ricksanchez9798]

@@turnipcrazy4602 no it isn't, it's fucking useless. I only care about the opinions of those who already know the truth and don't just fucking parrot the propaganda they've been fed......

[@metzli5797]

I mean Matpat did not really comment that much on the taste. This video was more on the texture of the crust. Pizza is extremely subjective. Some people prefer a lot of crust, some focus on sauce, some on toppings.

[@rogueace9897]

I live in North Dakota. Most of the water here is pulled from ground aquifers and has some contaminants in it, but the well on my farm is widely considered one of the cleanest in the US, with only small amounts of Mangaese impurity that is easily filtered. I have a Reverse osmosis system for drinking it since manganese is harmful to pregnant women but I do find myself cooking with the unfiltered water quite a lot and I find that the water I get from boiling pasta (which is then often used for sauces) makes the sauces much thicker than the RO stuff

[@chubbytami4752]

This is always my favorite episode of food theory I'm born from Brooklyn New York but I moved to Cincinnati Ohio since I was 7 (I'm 23 now) I do miss the pizza from home

[@acetrainer6538]

Is anyone wondering how matpat just talks to his team about this I could imagine it going like "Hey guys wanna figure out why New York pizza taste delicious?"

[@kendratsou5636]

in Taiwan, the most iconic piece of pastry is probably the spring onion roll/pancake. Have no idea about the science behind that delicious snack, but is quite crispy on the outside, but inside it tends to be softer.

[@SbaDefender]

This was really interesting. I'm a pizza fanatic, which varies so much in the South with a lot of mediocrity. However without a doubt the best pizza I've ever had is from Deluca's in Hot Springs, AR. Which, as you might've guessed, has very unique water from their hot springs. So mr Deluca combines his traditional NY style with the unique water of the area for something truly special for the regions. It's not the cheapest pizza, but I get it every time I find myself crossed over in arkansas for a bit of distance.

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

This single video opened my eyes on everything I cook now. I always wondered why the pasta I cook with the same exact ingredients tasted significantly different when I moved states. I never would’ve guessed that water quality and its composition (how much chlorine and fluoride it may have) can affect your cooking so much.

[@Personthatexists]

I’ve always loved pasta and I tried it in multiple areas, so I wondered that too

[@CosmicStar3]

I kind of forget you actually have a life and stuff and don’t just spend all day commenting on youtube videos

[@flamesredinconito6474]

Hey its you again

[@flameduel]

@@CosmicStar3 Honestly yea same XD My first reaction was, "Huh, I don't know why I am surprised but for some reason I didn't expect that this person *cooks*"

[@epictetushasepictiddiez2615]

Fake, this guy doesn't get off the screen

[@DisturbedNeo]

I'd be curious to know the composition of Chicago water and if that lends itself to the thicker deep pan they're known for.

[@vincedibona4687]

Ask the city. They should have a biannual schedule of what they do to the water and exactly when. It took me four different rounds of people here in Durham NC, so Chicago might take longer, but keep asking for a tap water analysis or results from said analysis, you should get somewhere. It might even be online.

[@jessicafleischauer1279]

www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/water/WaterQltyResultsNRpts/ccReports/CCA-2021-1-3.pdf

[@andrewhansen7690]

From the latest Chicago Water Quality Report (2021), there are around 4 PPM of Chlorine, and between 0.65 and 0.77 PPM of Fluoride

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

It's rhe chemocals in the water that turn the frogs... No. Wait. That's another area.

[@maas1208]

I Wonder how Matpat feels about Chicago IL

[@eastsidetactown]

Washington state loves sourdough and is really famous for all sorts of different types of beers brewed locally here. As far as yeasty stuff thats what i know off top from here

[@sardok4018]

In Mexico we have the same debate with a type of bread. "Virote" is a kind of salty bread made in Jalisco, which is often used to make "Tortas Ahogadas", where we soak the bread in hot sauce. The bread itself is hard enough (but still edible and great) that it wont tear apart even when it's completely soaked, it will just get a bit softer. People have tried to bake it in other places but they never get it right. Some of them claim is the altitude, while others think like this video demonstrated, the source of the ingredients.

[@emaboxe15]

I am italian and i find this video interesting, but one thing: a pizza can be better or worse even because of what tipe of yeast and flour you use, or like if you put into your pizza salt or sugar or both or none of them. So in general if you say that NY pizza is better than other pizzas just because of water is wrong, but the comparison you do whit the pizza that you make whit the same ingredient but different water is a good example. Again, i like the video a lot and is very good, good job!!!

[@jonathanschreiber6053]

Yeah right, this man has never been to Catania

[@Robzooo7]

This is so funny given I just watched the "Keith tries every pizza in New York" video and concluded that most places are mid/bad!

[@oscarruniv3861]

Read my namee

[@shommabomb]

Ignore all the clowns in the reply section above me

[@jurggss]

i just watched it too and im super surprised cause in their buzzfeed video ned and eugene said the pizza was super good

[@klekikork]

Since you left a comment on mine, I’ll leave a comment on yours :D

[@Spanikef]

That's funny every reply is a bot even I might be a bot

[@R.h2342]

Some places have things like pizza or biscuits or coffee, but you know what corn's good too. That's our specialty corn here in Iowa corn is like everywhere

[@candicecarter581]

Very cool to learn about water. Good work on the video.

[@grantcarter3972]

It could’ve been interesting to see how distilled water would’ve acted as well considering it would completely lack chlorine or any minerals

[@heathers2581]

that was my thought too!

[@heathers2581]

that was my thought too!

[@patwilson9186]

Wouldn't that just preserve all the yeast and make the dough full of flavor but also really hard?

[@isaiahfowlkes2012]

as a lover of science the fact the this wasn’t immediately taken to the extreme with distilled water hurts me

[@russb24]

You would lose all the other dissolved solids like calcium hardness. I was thinking water from a well. You'd still need to add the fluoride somehow.

[@humanperson9881]

It would have been interesting if you guys used distilled water as a control. As a further experiment it might be interesting to take distilled water and add fluoride to see if you get the same results as the new york water

[@Spade1350]

In cooking and baking, distilled water does not represent a control in most cases as it brings new variables to the party because distilled water is not natural water and does not behave like normal water. It can leach minerals from foods and even the tools and vessels holding it if they are made of a tarnishable metal and it saturates differently. It might be possible that 'tainting' the DW with the Flouride might mitigate the effects that make this true, but for better results, you would want to use something like smart water as control and then fluoridate that. Smart water being distilled water with common drinking water minerals readded, you get a proper control, because the water will behave like normal water and you can control what unnatural chemicals/mineral are in it from there.

[@GibbousTT]

@@Spade1350 So basically, distilled water is more reactive?

[@Stefan_Smith]

And actual NYC water from the Bronx, as Bronx is the only gravity fed water, and all other borough pump their water from our Reservoirs.

[@johnhogue9402]

In order to test his hypothesis, chlorine can easily be filtered out, and then added back in various concentrations. They would need to stick to a single source of water. Fluoride is harder to filter out, so using a low fluoride source of water and adding fluoride could be done. They would also want to have a professional baker do all the kneading and baking.

[@ferretshadowprod]

@@GibbousTT it's one step away from heavy water that's used to make atomic bombs

[@RazorNarwhal]

One thing you gotta try is some Gator Tail. I love it. Florida btw.

[@dramatictiming]

This should be an annual series

[@lordofhnajuty]

food speciality = Poutine. I can imagine that the water in the sauce could make a difference and we often either partially boil or cold soak our fries so that could have an effect.

[@SgtPotShot]

You should probably cold soak your fries anyway. I do it when I cut potatoes for fries.

[@zaubermaus8190]

Poutine... sounds russian ^_^°

[@jnati0n_97]

Canada?

[@Mrules123]

We’ve got bannock too! A kind of fry bread!

[@yaoiboi60]

@@jnati0n_97 Thats a whole country. He probably is from quebec or Montreal

[@oyska_g2985]

I totally respect the experiment, but please use a scale when measuring for science, especially with pizza dough since 1 cup of flour can be totally different every time you measure it (depending on how it's measured). That slight change in the variable can make a small but significant difference in the dough's hydration which affects how it bakes

[@Chewbooker]

This!

[@katrinamarietorres1438]

And the kneading time. The final dough did not look right. They didnt give it a chance to be a proper pizza dough. Looked like it did not proof right.

[@benjaminokonski9186]

I was in New York for a school trip a couple years ago, and bought some New York style pizza, as you do. It's DEFINITELY the water. Makes their pies hit different.

[@SusieLostHerDog]

Love the video, AND PIZZA! Also, this video made me feel like I was in science class💀💀

[@dubya13207]

See also: bagels On another note, I think I remember Alton Brown talking on Good Eats about how SF Sourdough is unique because of the specific wild yeast of the region. Like, you could make a starter there and let it go for a bit, then bring it home and it would be perfect, but only for a little while because then your local yeast would take over. Knowing Brown, this also involved gassy sock puppets

[@quietone610]

He ALSO told us to let water STAND for a day or so to let the Chlorine escape, so it didn't hurt the yeast. What baker doesn't do that?

[@cactuscooler4003]

An idea for a follow up video. Find the best pizzeria in your area and bring them the three different types of water to make a pizza with each. That way a professional pizza maker can give their opinions and you had the addition of a professional chef making the pizza to eliminate any errors or variations in methodology that might have occured in your home kitchen.

[@morvish1925]

I'm a piedmont NCer and we got a good pizza place based off new york style, its called tonys, and if matpat is reading this, come visit the rest of NC, we're all siblings

[@jimmyreinstein9993]

This was so fascinating

[@D00MTR33]

I remember watching some inventor show and one of the inventions was a water system (it added the minerals based on your water supply) that simulated NY water for bagel and pizza shops. There's a pizza place whare i live (Southwest US) that imports NY water for their pizza shop and its won a bunch of awards and its really go9d.

[@eoinoshea3151]

I read a news article once claiming that people who are gluten free are able to eat the French pastries because of how the wheat is developed there. It would be interesting to see a theory about that

[@Razor_Crest]

As someone who is Gluten Free, I can say that this would be a fantastic video as it's completely true. This is because many Gluten Free individuals in the US, myself included, are not that way because of a Gluten intolerance, but intolerance to the GMOs in American grains. While I've never been to Europe before, I've shipped European flour over and tried it without issues.

[@ellaser93]

@@Razor_Crest Really? That's interesting considering that there isn't any commercially available GMO varieties of wheat. Not in the U.S., not anywhere. It makes me curious if you "Gluten Intolerance" is something you are just self-diagnosing and you got some "Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc" going on there.

[@Valspartame_Maelstrom]

this explains it really well: kzbin.info/www/bejne/moLaZapvjMyLmbM

[@MissCaraMint]

@@Razor_Crest I have actually heard something like this before. That a lot of people aren’t nessacerily reacting to the gluten in products, but something els that also isn’t present in gluten free products besides gluten itself. It’s super interesting.

[@MissCaraMint]

@@ellaser93 No no this is a thing. It might not spesiffically be GMO exactly that they are reacting to,but there seem to be two groups of people who have to eat gluten free. Those who genuinely are gluten allergic or intolerant, and those to react to something that is present in normal flour but not gluten free flour for some reason but that isn’t actually gluten.