For Honor - 1 SIMPLE TRICK to avoid Bash Mixups after the Bash Changes - SINGLE DODGE TIMING!!

[@fkkfreeze]

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[@siegebug]

I never noticed your picture is a bat, is there a story behind it?

[@bournechupacabra]

I'm glad you pointed out that this involves reacting to animation. It's good to know that this update hasn't made offense strictly worse. It's actually quite interesting how this will shift offensive pressure. Arguably, it makes neutral gbs and neutral lights more effective if an opponent is considering to use this optimal dodge window. What do comp players think about this shift? Also, does this change at all for characters with feintable forward dodge heavies?

[@Wird97]

Not a comp player, but rank 15 in duels on pc and been consistently GM for the last couple of years, whatever that's worth. The update made neutral offence strictly better. While single dodge timing is a great tool to avoid the sole "dodge bash/dodge gb" mixup, as freeze pointed out, it's usually reliant on reacting to any movement. I haven't faced a player capable of consistently distinguishing gb/light/heavy and neutral dodge animation *in an actual game* . It might be possible in a vacuum, that i am not sure of. Regarding dodge forward heavies, they are now a great tool for catching people taking advantage of the single dodge timing, depending on the attack frame data, which varies wildly. I found bp's dodge forward heavy to be somewhat inconsistent at catching the dodge, but others are much more consistent All in all, I think it's a good update that gives a chance to more casual players to compete with, or at least open up, reaction monsters Edit: all of the above applies to duels. I'm not 100% sure how the interaction applies to team modes, as Im not big on those. Somebody else will have to answer that

[@redtreatrick5265]

The reaction window we are looking at is 300ms which is small but let us compare it to what we had previously. WL old bash was 500ms after 100ms into the dodge, so the reaction window was 233ms with 100ms of time to prepare.This means that with enough practice in academy, players who could never dodge WL bash on reaction can now attempt to dodge his new bash on reaction while successfully blocking/cgbing. Good thing is that bashes with dodge forward heavies will still be an unreactable mixup, as well as some other bashes with dodge special properties, like Shinobi's bash

[@bllitss]

the reaction window is 266 ms on characters with 600 ms fwd dodge recovery. and 200 ms on warlord, but the reaction is still not the same or easier since you also have to contend with neutral gbs which means that you need to hit this reaction window while waiting for the animation of fwd dodge specifically which from my testing is not consistently doable.

[@pepperonijabroni5353]

have been waiting for your video on bash changes for a while. this doesnt seem too strong regardless, and i doubt a dodge defensive meta can form at this point when attacking is so strong now. However, what i was really looking forward to were the numerical breakdowns of these bash changes, dodge and recovery timings, and this video spoils us with an excellent graphic detailing so much information.

[@iiBeanii]

6:38 for the people who form their opinion on the title but dont watch the video.

[@toetmined5299]

EH EH EH

[@forsaken696]

8:21 for people who don’t want to watch the video

[@ExoticDva]

Thank you bean

[@slendermf8588]

Been a while

[@ConsoleFreaked]

General Skywalker

[@flosonasty7320]

I've been checking twice a week. It was getting a little to warm out

[@truedarklander]

🧐

[@tomppeli.]

The absolute state of bashes in For Honor It's like they take two steps in _an_ direction, but inevitable take three back

[@Wird97]

Did we watch the same video? The purpose of the update was to make neutral offence viable for the majority of the cast. Tho not scritctly in the way they anticipated, they succeeded in that

[@atynniehawke9341]

​@@Wird97 they absolutely didn't they made 3 of the only good bashes horrible, broken tiandi and medjay, and the rest remained the same

[@PhOeNiXCrEw93]

​@@atynniehawke9341 Those 3 bashes are worse in lower levels but better in higher levels, Tiandi and Medjay will get adjusted next update, and every other bash is factually a working mixup now. Either watch the entire video or check the comment above by Blitss.

[@tristenatorplaysgames6833]

@@atynniehawke9341also characters with dodge lights or heavies got a huge buff with this namely gryphon

[@atynniehawke9341]

@@tristenatorplaysgames6833 they absolutely didn't, because they didn't change input of none of them and the window input and such remained the same and gained nothin from it

[@TulkasMight]

This is good to know. I was wondering what was going on. I watch you for the technical aspect of FH. I have been grinding Zhanhu for that event armor, and I was getting caught by lights on my side dodges. Was scratching my head wondering wtf was going on. Legit screaming "how!?" Lol.

[@Norgoz]

I remember testing this during the Testing Grounds. 400 and 433 both seemed to have this timing issue. 466 seemed to be more effective at catching dodges when max delayed. Hopefully devs can find a balance that accomplishes the intended goal.

[@thatkidfox]

Very good very comprehensible! Thank you!

[@darkdaubeny]

My math teacher is so proud of me that i got that schedule, only after second rewatch, i gonna be a better player now hehe 🔥🙏🏼

[@tonyolsson3880]

Went back in for some reason and second game got bashed into oblivion by a tiandi and a bp. Was a lot of fun to play that match

[@Daimler690]

Great demo

[@him7487]

Every patch seems to bring a goofy ahh change that does nothing but change for the sake of change and make the game worse in every way.

[@RafaelSantos-pi8py]

Unfortunately i have the reaction time of a rheumatic turtle so this doesn't work for me. Also, dodging forward into gb instead of bashing catches people early dodging.

[@luciusmorgan-gt8hn]

I’m just surprised they haven’t fixed this

[@leonciesla5456]

Zhanhu with 700ms forward dodge recovery: 😢

[@ChangedCauseYT-HateFoxNames]

Why are you dodging forward to dodge a bash?

[@nathanflinchum1153]

@@ChangedCauseYT-HateFoxNames what it means is that you cant do forward dodge to gb reliably with zhanhu, the comment was from the attacker pov, not the person trying to dodge the bash

[@leonciesla5456]

@@ChangedCauseYT-HateFoxNames I feel informative so I’m gonna spell this out for you. Warlord with 533 ms forward dodge recovery has a single ms input for the side dodge to beat all options out of his forward dodge perfectly. Then Freeze showed Shugoki, who has a 600ms forward dodge recovery which means he has a 66ms window in which a side dodge beats the entire mixup. I know that Zhanhu has a 700ms forward dodge input and therefore we can extrapolate he has a 166ms window you can beat the entire forward dodge mixup. This is oversimplified becuase his forward dodge heavy feint changes things. However it has been true for some time that Zhanhu’s opponents enjoy a single dodge timing that beats the entire mixup. Feel free to watch the Filthy Spaniards video on it and adjust the values accordingly to the new 433ms bash versus the old 500ms. Have fun!

[@redtreatrick5265]

@@leonciesla5456 Why would warlord dodge bashes with forward dodge when he can interrupt them with his fast lights?

[@leonciesla5456]

@@redtreatrick5265 bait used to be believable 😔

[@andreifilipan6929]

So we are circling back to neutral gbs? I mean, that is one way to keep a playerbase entertained

[@crook9698]

This isn't very relevant to the video, however with the most recent update the forge outfit for vikings is just gone No ornament, no effects Dont know where it went Edit: Restarting game fixed the glitch Probs has something to do with the new sorting system idk

[@pmaddy4046]

Rest in peace warlord

[@michup86]

I do Warlord just fine. Actually, started him post changes and have 62% K/D ratio (that's including learning him). It only climbs up ever since starting from 58 and going up, almost 63% now. I almost don't use bashes at all.

[@fkkfreeze]

What's your point?

[@pmaddy4046]

@@fkkfreeze for example the headbutt was one of warlords main tool , but now its so readable

[@michup86]

@@fkkfreeze Hey, I just reply to message rest in peace warlord - sounds like overstatement to me.

[@pmaddy4046]

t@@michup86thanks bro but everytime when i use the headbutt they dodge it and that is anoing

[@atynniehawke9341]

New 300ms window input sucks hard, they should've made the bashes with not follow up on whiff a 100/200 windo input at earliest 500ms bash but with 100ms or 64ms hidden from opponent, easy as that

[@pmaddy4046]

the bash changes are so terrible , specially for some char who need it in they tool !

[@wolvenedvard3049]

Were these changes needed?

[@vapor_snake920]

Kinda, yes, but not in the form of blanket changes.

[@platyplushie]

not getting hit typically helps, as opposed to getting hit

[@erbol8116]

imagine dev wanted to make bashes harder to react only against top players and so casuals can use more bashes , and now its even easier to dodge. + casuals still dont use bashes cuz they have never use it in the first place lol

[@bllitss]

its not even easier to dodge, the mixup itself works now instead of people just reacting to orange.

[@erbol8116]

how you make it works on characters like wl for exemple ? @@bllitss

[@Wird97]

​​@@erbol8116did you even watch the video? Neutral gb/light against people who dodge on the single timing on movement, and dodge forward heavy if you actually meet someone who only dodges on dodge fwd

[@theinsane833]

@@erbol8116if every hero’s bash can be dodged on 1 timing that requires you to dodge before you see the bash coming you are at risk of being GB/lighted or if you dodge attack parried

[@EthNet34756]

games dead innit freeze?

[@usurper4167]

If players still can't dodge the bashes after this update then this game had been criminally unbalanced

[@Heisen_burger-dude]

Skill issue

[@crudnom7090]

For honor players really inching out every possible millisecond and frame to give them some advantage instead of just fucking playing the game normally

[@thelouster5815]

When you can react to everything, every millisecond makes the difference.

[@Blurgamer17]

It's comp. What did you expect?