Forbes Highlights A Huge Problem With The First Descendant | Elly Reacts

[@chrislicon4833]

It's easy... farm normal descendant for mastery. Then invest in ultimate. Basic descendant gets your feet wet.

[@TheEgoShooterer]

It's only a current Issue for the most part. Considering we'll get one Ultimate Character per season, it takes over two years until a newly released Descendant gets an Ultimate version. We only need a roadmap for the order of Ultimate Descendant releases until Ultimate Luna. I doubt anyone would bat an eye if they get to enjoy a Luna fully maxed out for over a year and then replace her when the other option is to not touch her at all even if you want to, because - let's face it - nobody will play a Character they like with only 4 mods equipped just to save some resources for such a long time. Also, as it currently seems we'll get Ultimate Descendants in order of development and popularity. Since Enzo, Esiemo and Yujin haven't been in the first Beta, I doubt they will get an ultimate version before any of the other Descendants that shipped with the base game. So the order of ultimate releases will probably look like this: Freyna Blair Sharen Jayber Kyle Enzo Yujin Esiemo Luna Hailey ...

[@SealFormulaMaster]

The problem is the cost to grind. In Warframe, you can easily build a character and for far cheaper. One Activator takes 30 hours to build, which is kinda ridiculous. It's even worse when you factor in drop rates. To this day, I've only ever gotten ONE Activator in 270 hours of play. Catalysts are better, but I've still only gotten 5 or 6 excluding the free one. You're spending days to level up one character, just to throw it away when the Ultimate comes out. If there were more ways to get these resources like in Warframe, or at least better chances to get them, it wouldn't be so bad.

[@zack8989]

they can just say they dont play warframe and can quit complaining

[@project_Akira]

smooth brain take 😒

[@felipez3115]

They don't need to play wf to criticize this game.

[@SnypezHeat]

Foreal I came into this game knowing only to drop my resources on the ultimate characters only

[@RhavenFredriksson]

As I've said in other places, one of the conditions for researching an ultimate version of a descendant should be that the player has has already 40'd the basic version of the descendant, and after completing the research they can choose to scrap the basic descendant and get half their invested catalysts and the activator blueprint back. The only way to get around that condition would be a purchase of the ultimate from the shop. This method allows Nexon the chance to make their jingle, and also gives a path for free to play, all while maintaining the fundamental resource grinding required in the game play.

[@Heatbeaver]

I just farm for ultimate descendants and I'm okay with that

[@TethoSama]

I am the same, I am treating it as farming for Prime parts in Warframe and doing a Exotic Quest/Grind in Destiny but even then both are faster than farming here in Thirst Descendants.

[@timwillis4063]

Bought glay and bunny, farmed out ult valby(now i play her more than the ones i bought xD

[@TethoSama]

@@timwillis4063 I was gonna make Ult Valby first but decided to go with Ult Bunny and man I am glad for that since I can farm a lot faster and she's semi-invested. Though need a couple more catalysts then I think I can finally do solo dungeons and bosses with her.

[@timwillis4063]

@@TethoSama yeah bunny is fun and got back to investing in her. One EA and i think 2-3 catalysts and she is doing pretty well for farming. I got my ult vulby where i want her i think with one EA ans 3maybe 4 catalysts but i use her more for valby run or other capture the point missions as i use her water trail alot. Great for dealing with those pesky balls though a good bunny does the trick too.

[@itsreapernecrosis2215]

Yah same. Never upgraded my regular bunny beyond minimum farming. Farmed my ult gley and ult valby, still haven't even built their base forms. I'll get em for the mastery fodder at some point. But all the time and materials saved from me not focusing on base descendants brings a smile to my face. Thank God I only put two catys in freyna even though I love her. Gunna scrap up that ult freyna quick. When Hailey comes out, I'll probably actually build her up though cuz I definetley think it'll be a year or so til she gets an ult. Should be fine by then.

[@NatesOP]

I mean, i agree with basically everything that was said lol. I don't invest at all in any normal descendants because i view it as wasted materials.

[@carlwinsloww2153]

The only thing she’s wrong about is the stats it isn’t as major of a difference as she and the article are making it out to be. The only ult that’s super OP rn is Ult Gley. Also forget the fact when your maxed out your already OP depending on your build and who your playing as. I’ve seen people playing as basic descendants and they one shot the boss. However I do think it should be made into an upgrade feature instead of a completely separate descendant so you’re not wasting materials, I agree with you on that. NEXON is known to be grimy but I don’t think they’d go far to make basic descendants weak across the board. That would ruin the experience and make the game utterly pointless to play

[@obriandouglas5051]

I play both Warframe and the first descendants and I have to say I like both but the grinds for Ultimate parts are insane and sometimes I feel like giving up, but I do enjoy the first descendants in so many ways I just wish that they would increase the drop rate when farming from 6% to at least 15 to increase our chances. I have been farming ultimate gley for about two weeks and I have only obtained her enhanced cells after about 100 tries

[@itsreapernecrosis2215]

I only farm the Ults right now. The base descendants are just mastery fodder to me except maybe enzo or sharon. Got ult gley and ult valby before their bases. Saved alot of time and resources doing it that way. However with a descendant like Hailey coming out, i see more reason in huilding her up because her Ult probably wont be out for a year or so. Right now we are kinda in a limbo state because we dont know what order these descendants were made in for the ukts to release in because we are at the start of the game. There will probably be more clarity as time goes on.

[@ChristianEzequiel-v6r]

Absorption would be the best idea because with Valby for example, i actually hate how her ultimate looks (especially her helmet), but i love her original skin so, if they do it this way, we should be able to keep both skins and at least some of the catalysts we used on the normal one.

[@edjonhadley1]

0:49 All the devs need to do is up the gold gain and increase the xp gain by a fair amount and boom i wouldn't mind levelling normal characters just for them to become useless later, as we never know what ult descendant is coming out next anyway

[@nalx22]

I agree with this statement.

[@NeightrixPrime]

The re-leveling is definitely absurd. Players are out there doing half a void shard mission and aborting just to make it to a bit faster.

[@ImproperStandby]

@@edjonhadley1 The fact that hard mode does not give a boost in Exp is a crime, Hard Mode should come with a boost to exp as well as the stuff it has now.

[@LettuceCatGaming]

The problem isn't the fact that we have normies and ults, because WF has been doing this for over 10 yrs now. The real problemm lies in the amount of time and resource (bought or farmed) you need to fully Candy and Shroom your character, and it will take you a lot of time to stockpile those Candies and Shrooms. It's so much cheaper to full Forma and Potato a WF that doing it on a non-prime doesn't really hurt, and by the time a Prime releases, you'd already have a sizable stock of Forma and Potatoes if you were consistently playing the game.

[@nalx22]

Facts.

[@FullchanAnon]

Energy Activators really aren't that hard to get. I have wasted EAs on Bunny and Valby, used them on Ultimate Lepic, Bunny, Gley, Valby, Enduring Legacy, Thunder Cage, and Greg's reversed fate. I'm also sitting on two more EAs. Enduring Legacy, U. Lepic, and Thunder Cage, are either fully catalyzed or are good enough that there's no further need except to shave off an extra second in clear times. U. Gley and Greg are the two I'm currently working on to fully catalyzed too, and I'm mostly half way there and am sitting on 20+ catalyst unused or unbuilt. And I work 6 times a week at 8 hours each. The drops really aren't as bad as some people are making it out to be.

[@Qballiz2kool]

Facts, absolutely facts.

[@LettuceCatGaming]

@@FullchanAnon While that may be true, it can't be helped that we should compare TFD with WF since it's fairly obvious that TFD is taking a TON of inspiration from WF. So it begs the question: why are we having this issue with TFD when it's been a non-issue with WF for over 10 years when it's essentially the same system? It's not just the Candies and the Shrooms, it's also the amount of time to re-level your descendant or weapon among other things.

[@FullchanAnon]

@@LettuceCatGaming That because WF has 10 years of system put on it while comparing TFD's basic one! Sure, it's easier to relevel a forma'd frame, but that's because there's a truck ton of other things you have to do to optimize your frame. To have a proper optimized set up, you need to polarize every slot to cram all the mods you want, you need to an exilus slot (that needs to be either bought or farmed) with ether prime sure footed or, if your frame can't be knocked down, some extra range or power in that slot. Then, if you have a frame you like to main, you want to forma the aura if you have several set up and flexibility. Then you have 5 tau shards to put on your frame and most likely nourish/roar/gloom to helminth over the ability you use the least, costing resources in the process. Then we move on to guns/melee. They'll need a potato, fully polarized to cram the primed mods and rivens, they also have exilus slot. And you have your sentinel too, which needs to be fully forma'd to cram the new bond mods and survivability you need on it.

[@NeightrixPrime]

Forbes is a bigger issue than anything in this game.

[@that80ssongyoulove84]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[@DegenWeeb]

I admit to making a full build on normal Lepic. Despite the differences in stats and a single mod he functions fine. He's helped me get Ultimate Bunny relatively easier. I will eventually get his Ultimate, but that won't be until later in the game. I'm currently working towards acquiring Ultimate Valby and Gley so that I can get rid of the normal versions that I didn't invest in. TFD essentially has the same system of Warframe with regular characters and Prime(Ultimate Characters). The only difference is that it's easier to get the resources for characters than in TFD. Fact of the matter is that you need to invest in at least 1 character for hard mode grinding/bosses. Hopefully they'll give us a way to refund some of the stuff we used in the regular descendants.

[@JarodEpp]

I agree, make it so you can consume a base character into your ultimate.

[@scheevyjenkinz8444]

If anyone wastes mats on a regular descendant they deserve the time lost. My Sharon and Enzo will never see a catalyst

[@Thexis_]

They should give you the ability to "Evolve" your basic Character into an ultimate. You still grind the mats, and you have the option of just crafting the ultimate or using those mats to "evolve". You still craft each component and then once you have the 4 parts crafter and the code, you go to the prime hands and click evolve and now your Valby becomes "Ultimate Valby". You keep all your catalysts and Activator used on Valby and you go and level up Ultimate Valby to lvl 40.

[@sharpeningrod6441]

I don't like Paul Tassi, but he genuinely plays this game, and I agree with the sentiment of this article. I see a lot of people bringing up the fact that WF also does this with their Frames, but the big difference here is the fact that levelling Descendants in this game is so... freaking... boring. These are problems that the game CURRENTLY has and they will hopefully, eventually address. We're only entering Season 1, after all. But I don't want them to just speed up the levelling process, I want the normal versions to have a purpose as well, a reason to keep playing them instead of just having to stick with the Ultimate versions. I don't have the answer but I'm just hoping the devs can come up with a good one.

[@yung_1174]

Brother Paul Tassi doesn't play shit mans is a goddamn grifter he ruined Destiny and it fan hate him he literally bought viessa and her one piece to bitch about it Forbes is a trash site

[@mordecaigalidonus2863]

Leveling in WF is just as boring tho... you just spam the same few missions just like TFD.

[@trawll8659]

They can just make an item that upgrades your Descendants to the Ultimate version with all the goodies that come with, that way people that farm/pay for normal Descendants don't have to feel like they're losing out on anything and the Dev's get to keep the game working almost the same as it does.

[@dsshocktrooper7523]

​@trawll8659 that sounds like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[@AdamNisenziSpisak]

Easy fix and i really hope they implement this - Let us take out catalysts and activators from regular descendants, for a hefty sum of gold and some irl time spent recovering the catalyst/activator, recovering at least the blueprint part of the activator and catalysts.

[@chevellerr]

As a 4000 hour Warframe player the problem is easy to solve. The catalyst are way to expensive. The equivalent in Warframe is called forma and I would say it's about 1/10th the price. In cash to buy a forma is about $1.75. I find a big problem is the energy activator. They are asking 1200 caliber. That's almost $30 CDN for me. The reactor is around $1.75 as well. I feel like Warframe is trying to play the long game and build trust but with The First Descendant I feel like Nexon is trying to milk it before it gets a chance to grow.

[@benjamindittmann7431]

Absolutely true. I really don't want in budget characters. I don't even know why we get Freyna next. They should first and foremost release ultimate versions of the functional characters Sharon and Enzo.

[@christopherallmand9407]

Not only is upgrading a normal Descendant a huge investment of 100 plus hours that goes down the drain.... but reactors must drop the right weapon mounting, plus the right skill combo, plus the right sub stats... and there is no way to mix/match/correct, plus the reactors are plagued with loads of useless and non-matching rolls further hampering the impossibility of getting a truly useful reactor drop.

[@phoenixfire8226]

no chance i'm investing in non-ults unless it's freshly released and i really love it.

[@vladenpain]

The likelihood that they will go like Warframe on this is pretty high. That meaning they amount of regular Descendant releases will be much greater than Ultimates. There might be some outliers, but most people will eventually invest in a character they like instead of waiting potentially years for an ultimate version. It does work better on Warframe due to the massive difference in getting its Catalysts and Activators. Not only it's easier to get them F2P, they are immensely cheaper if you want to use cash. TFD will have to change regarding those if they don't want to push players away. Either make them easier to farm AND much cheaper to buy with cash or have some "inheritance" system when you have a regular character maxed out. That's the only way people will feel comfortable investing on them and then doing again whenever an Ultimate gets released.

[@BasedBrave]

I fully invested in Luna knowing full well I’ll get her ultimate one day. Rather you do it for fun or you need the extra power creep to get by….if you invest your time on a character….thats on you….everyday I hear people talk about drop rates….the grind…it’s a looter shooter. All these people do is bitch and moan about what they want and what they can’t get. I can’t wait till all these soft noobs move aside because this clearly isn’t the game for the impatient, the entitled and the lazy. So no you shouldn’t get back what you put into a character…..YOU GET NOTHING! YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY SIR.

[@shurenshimitri5874]

Thats why after i got ult bunny and maxed out i spent my time on building weapons

[@joshuazetos2052]

I've said this since day 1 and why I only play as ultimate gley not putting time and resources into a regular Descendant

[@Bustaperizm]

TFD really pissed off someone, huh? Your descedent isn't useless when an ult comes out. Your descendent still does what it does. If you care that much. Dont "invest" in that hero. But if you are one of those people that all of a sudden realizd an ultimate version will inevitable come out. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 I energized my yujin, enzo, and jayber. Jayber got 4 crystals. Im not going to cry if their ultimate version comes out. I WANT ultimate jayber. Maybe hell get debugged.

[@hemilife7629]

Finally someone that realizes that its a choice to do what you want some people make it sound like they are being forced lol i have the majority of them i use what i feel like it not the meta ones sometimes i feel like blowing shit up with eisimo some other days i wanna be freyna but i can do that cause i dont invest on them i just lvl them up .

[@HolyC33]

Why would I use a normal lepic over ult lepic or ult valby over normal valby. There unless 20 cat gone forever

[@pityumityu14]

@@HolyC33 Those ults are already in the game, just get both and build the ultimate versions. If TFD does the ultimate characters like Warframe does Prime frames then they will mostly release ultimate versions of the older characters. So from our current roster Luna and Hailey will be the last ones, with Enzo, Esiemo and Yujin quite far as well. Sharen will probably get her ultimate version soon since she was among the first characters released in betas too. If you want to hold your materials and not invest into the characters that you like then sure, go ahead, but you might be waiting years for your ultimate version.

[@junioraleixo6446]

​​@@HolyC33 i still use normal bunny over ult bunny since i dont need her transcendent mod to do what i do. A lot of people forget that the main diference betwen ultimate descendents and normal ones its their exclusive mods, outside that, its only little amounts of base stats(excluding gley since she gets double the defense 😅)

[@mordecaigalidonus2863]

We live in an age where everyone wants everything without any cost/benefit attached. They want full positives and no negatives to anything. That's the problem with people today. This same system exists in other games and nobody cares, this game drops and everyone wakes up from a coma to cry about any small inconvenience. Game too easy, cry. Game to hard, cry. Have to grind to earn what you want, cry. Wants carries in fights for ultimate parts but doesn't want to invest in anything other than ultimates, cry. Crafting times fit perfectly with someone with a job but broke no-lifers can't craft 20 in a single day, cry. The list never ends with these people, just move the goal post and keep crying.

[@andreasschumacher3480]

Warframe is doing this for over a decade now with normal frames and later come's out a Prime Version and Nobody cry's so TFD do the Same thing and now its a Problem ? I dont think so 😊

[@pityumityu14]

Exactly... And not like every characters is going to have their ult in the next 6 months... Some of them will be 1+ year to be released.

[@jameswulfgang154]

I feel the main difference between Warframe and FD is that you can build craft and do a lot without using Forma or Reactors, where as with Descendants you NEED to drop like 6-7 Crystal Catalysts (forma) or a Reactor just to make basic builds because the mods are too damn expensive. If they halved the cost of the mods or made it so you don't need to shape every slot to make builds, then this wouldn't be an issue.

[@KinghtofZero00]

It depends how quickly they release ultimates. Warframe takes about 3 months to release primes but The first Descendants hasnt been out for less than 2 months and we already having 1 ultimateand another coming out

[@allan_npc]

Warframe doesn't limit some mods for as Primes only and gives such a huge boost on stats for them so its almost a skin, not the same thing on TFD

[@pityumityu14]

@@KinghtofZero00 The game is very early that's why they are releasing new characters and ultimates so fast. We got 1+1 in preseason and we are getting 1+1 in season 1, after that probably nothing for the next 3 months (since season 1 lasts for that long).

[@FullchanAnon]

* shrugs * I just finished farming for the last Ultimate Descendant last night, which was Ajax cuz I didn't like his playstyle, and I work 8 hours a day, 6 times a week. Along the way, I have EA'd Ultimate Lepic, Bunny, Gley, and Valby. Including wasting two on Normal Bunny and Valby. Also EA'd +5 Eternal Legacy, +5 Greg, +5 Thunder Cage. And I'm sitting on two more EAs right now. Anyone complaining about the 6% drops of Energy Activator either hasn't played anything with more ludicrous drop rates (squints at MMOs) or isn't being efficient and was hyper focusing on EAs.

[@Slacker28]

Your time management is amazing! How long did it take you to get all the ultimates, did you use money for grinding, how many hours a day do you grind? I am still playing the campaign and hit a wall leveling so I am interested in any insight.

[@FullchanAnon]

@@Slacker28 roughly 4 hours a day, a little more if I'm lucky. Spent on cosmetics, though I did purchase Enzo just open vaults sooner, everything else was acquired F2P, even Sharen. I focused first on weapons instead of leveling descendants. Rushed through the story, then just used a 2x Catalyst on the Tamer to get Thundercage and Enduring Legacy (+1 was serviceable), and do enough contribution in party intercepts. Bunny is also worth throwing a few catalyst at, just to make farming infiltrations easier. After that, just go for the Ultimate you want. If it's behind a higher difficulty Colossus, upgrade your Enduring Legacy or Thundercage. I picked Lepic as my first ultimate and I believe he's one of the easier ones to farm. Second was Bunny.

[@FullchanAnon]

@@Slacker28 admittedly, the grind can get mind numbing (when hasn't it been for any game lol), and my solution is to listen to audio books (there are a lot on KZbin) and have a text-to-speech app reading a web novels for me.

[@Slacker28]

@FullchanAnon I do those things too. I got 2 gold level components for ult bunny on normal level missions. I am concerned with how hard, hard level missions and bosses will be with normal Vessia, especially when I am still figuring out how to get stronger after lv 40. I don't know if I can get Bunnie's components from those wave missions. We're you able to do that or did you grind on hard mode missions and bosses?

[@FullchanAnon]

@@Slacker28 I got two blueprints from normal colossi too. More of as a joke as I just wanted to clear the amps while thinking "haha, I don't even want those bunny drops." If you're missing the Stabilizer and the Code, I recommend just doing the hard mode Outpost for them, since outpost bosses became easier. Granted, you need Sharen for the Stabilizer. If the part you need doesn't seem to drop, just take a step back, do something else, and come back after a while. I'm a firm believer that being hard headed with target farming is just asking to get a burnout.

[@Bungee_Gum]

I disagree with the first part of the post about Ultimates. 2 out of 6 ultimates have mods that really makes them "must have" thats Ajax (not so much) and Lepic the other 4 ultimates are the same in power level than their regular versions. Nexon been trying to keep ultimates weak. I do agree we should get at least half of the catalyst invested transferred to the Ultimate versions also the base stats we get from ultimates aren't a big deal, nothing game changer nothing worth 70$ or hours of farming and ultimates dont have all their base stats higher than regular decendants its just a few of them and not by alot Bunny Ultimate mod doesn't make her better at mobbing and everyone who thinks that doesn't know any better. Bunny's Ultimate mod makes her better in bosses but for farming it limits how much enemies her skill 1 and 3 can hit making it worse for mobbing. Unless you plan on doing bosses with bunny there's no difference between regular bunny and Ultimate. Valby Ultimate is trash, Valby best mod is supply moisture and both valby's can use it so there is literally no reason to get Ultimate valby unless you really like valby. Viessa best Ultimate mod can be used by both Viessa's unless you really want Absolute zero mod. But regular Viessa and Ultimate are the same because of both sharing the best mod so no need to get Ultimate Viessa either. Both Gleys are the same and share the best mods too. Also in this game you need difference decendants for different things. Your main/Favorite decendant should be an Ultimate but everything else can be regular since they aren't your main/favorite. I only heavily interested in 2 decendants and thats it all the others are used for things that the game forces me to get like void shards. Ultimate decendants should be way stronger then what they currently are, actually right now Ultimates are weak, ultimates take too much time to grind and waiting time or they are too expensive to buy for so little in return. Ultimates should feel overpowered but they dont and most Ultimates mods are bad. This needs to change, all ultimates stats should be higher than their regular ones by a decent amount and at least 1 out of the 2 exclusive mods for them should be very strong and game changing for the decendant, i am willing to bet that Freyna is going to be the same both exclusive mods will be ok at best making her useless to have unless you really like her.

[@Nikko027]

Forbes and Elly probably have not played Warframe yet! Warframe is the same thing and there's nobody complaining about it. Just don't invest in any of them aside from the ones that just release since that will be a year or two away from getting Ultimate variants. They're also coming out with a trader in Season 1 so problem solved but we have to wait and see.

[@ImproperStandby]

The time investment difference between TFD and Warframe is night and day.

[@chevellerr]

The price in the marketplace for things is night and day as well. A Forma in warframe will run you about $1.75 but in the First Descendant its about $8. The energy activator is about $30 and Warframe its still $1.75

[@Qballiz2kool]

It’s the time investment which makes it a big issue in TFD.

[@chevellerr]

@@Qballiz2kool The time to grind for the resource for the catalyst and actovator to build them or the time to relevel after installing a catalyst? I've installed four catalysts last night without a problem. 0 to 40 takes about a hour.

[@mordecaigalidonus2863]

@@ImproperStandby No its not... if you farm a warframe or farm a descendant its about the same amount. Crafting time in TFD is like 1/2 of that in warframe. Incoming the usual "I DoNt HaVe To FaRm In WaRfRaMe, I JuSt TrAdE." not what we are comparing, we are comparing 1 to 1 time to craft.

[@SheriffDude1107]

I mainly used base Ajax and Sharen to grind to hell and back until I got ultimate Gley, then fully modded her out. I'll use Activators for base Descendants (since I'm burnt out on releveling) but will happily fully mod one that I enjoy in the future. Yujin would be one that I may work with in the future but I pretty much only use Ultimate Bunny and Gley as of now.

[@hadeushawkyns]

We still have to at least level the basic versions for mastery, but I understand not wanting to invest heavily in non-ultimates. I'm basically doing the same thing, albeit because I'm still having to build up. I'd like to see them go the exact opposite way though. Instead of giving you incentive to trash the originals for the ultimates. I'd like to see there be some incentive (e.g. special transcendent mods) that are JUST for the original version. Do something to give the originals something special or their own unique identity, so that people have a reason to play them too and have to make a choice.

[@BF-uh4rz]

I just don't invest much in non ultimate but not that worried about catalysts/activators

[@Onigatana]

if we could make more than 1 catalyst per day I wouldnt mind.

[@PlasmoX]

I don't mind it. I think the main point of contention is that it takes a lot of resources and time to min max that descendant. I don't think this would be as big of an issue if we could level more easily, and research slots were not at such a high premium. There's more than one way to make people happy, and another way to approach addressing normals vs ultimates would just be to make it easier to level up a descendant. It takes me a few days of time to level up a descendant because the XP farm is just bad right now. I think as long as you're actively playing the game, like farming for something you want, you end up swimming in catalyst and energy activator blueprints, so I don't think it's really a waste. I would like it if we could either craft them faster, or give us more research slots. Since they are really important items, I find myself perpetually crafting them. So those 5 research slots you have, it's technically just 3 if you're back to back crafting catalysts and activators... More research slots would be welcome.

[@ahmedfox5935]

Since day one, I've realized this, the first only normal descendants I obtained are, Enzo & Sharen, and everyone knows why.. The rest I either obtained as part of my grinding of weapons or other important materials, or left until their ultimate is added to the game..

[@carlwinsloww2153]

As long as you can still heavy hit bosses with the base descendants I don’t see a problem. Obviously ultimate is advantaged still overall but shouldn’t make people feel defeated that it’s pointless for not spending the money. Not all ultimates have crazy stat changes either other than Gley, that’s it. So in a sense you’re paying for a slight to mild stat boost and a complete aesthetic overhaul of your descendant with the ult upgrade. People are completely oblivious it really is not that major. Don’t base your conclusions off an article never. You can literally look at the stats yourself in game

[@scottmiller2746]

i'd honestly be fine with just a refund of the blueprints at least

[@William-Sunderland]

This is a huge problem but lets not forget Ult characters are just skins of the normal versions we are supossed to take as completely different characters just so we have to grind a lot for them with very reduced chances, upgrade them separately, take an additional character slot and use exclusive modules. Now it makes even more sense cause many Freyna mains didnt plan on an Ult version releasing so its baiting on spending not to repeat the grind, they give you the normals first and some time later the Ultimate version is released after you invested a lot in that normal version you upgraded cause you like that character a lot and wanted to built it properly not knowing when or if it ever would ever get a Ult, also if a character is very popular in the community then itll probably get a Ult version, so basicaly the normal is the beta of the Ult in some way for devs going forward into the game.

[@BlubberGub]

Ultimate Elly when?

[@jaesun5664]

@@HappyFriday7 lol

[@justinsane332]

She already as good as it gets my dude, lol, that's why we watch her!

[@tasume3583]

best fix is when you sell a descendant you get the resources you put into it back, aka the catalyst/energy activator. so you can build what you want, then sell and make something else.

[@mickeyyang7364]

Module cost/Descendant base stats are all what it boils down to. Module costs are wayyyyy too expensive for how mandatory it feels to have a fully catalyzed build. Either base stats need to be buffed via cooldown, range, duration, HP, etc., or module costs alone need to be reworked and tweaked so that it does not feel like it is such a requirement to have. Stat stacking through modules such as cooldown reduction on Gley is what is causing this feeling of unnecessary friction. If the overall base stats of a character were brought up more in line with what they should be able to do, it would help with not having to invest so much upfront to be able to do endgame content. I've currently a fully maxed out U. Gley and U. Bunny with a few maxed out ult weapons and its such a drag knowing you need 8-11 catalysts and 5 copies of a gun upfront before you can really use the weapon/descendant. CC/EA need to be given out in a much higher frequency should this system remain in place. Just my 2 cents.

[@KurokiFk8]

Personally, I do budget builds on the base descendants. I see it as a “trial,” phase to see how much I like it before I decide to go full tilt on an ultimate. Do note that I do spend an energy activator on it, but no crystallization catalyst. IMO, I find energy activators fairly easy to farm versus its counterpart. Plus, base descendants make for good fodder towards your Mastery Rank.

[@francoisdottawa]

Freyna has been my go to for fighting electric-based colossi. Does it upset me that now I have to unlock and level up Ultimate Freyna? No. I used the original to get a good feel for the character and now that there's an ultimate, I can apply what I learned to it. As for farming, if Nexon increased gold earned by 30-50%, I wouldn't have to worry about gold farming. Materials are easy to come by when you know where to look (hint: Hard Mode). Sinking them into a character I later dismiss won't bother me at all if farming for gold was made slightly easier.

[@tigolbitties8008]

It would be cool if you could transfer xp from normal descendants to ult descendants once you unlock them.

[@antonioperalta1975]

I feel it’s too expensive, I’m grinding and feel like I should have three Ults by now but I only got 2 pieces for 1.

[@justincampbell1213]

Can’t see them giving us the materials one for one but being able to infuse a base character into its new ultimate to get some materials back or at the very least earn xp on ultimate at a stupidly increased rate would be nice

[@Sixhel]

Yea that’s the reason I stoped playing the regular descendants they are just not worth the time and resources

[@alanjackson1568]

My maxed out descendants are Enzo, Sharon, and Luna. None of which have an ult form yet. I enjoy the characters, so I am ok with playing them more to level them up again in the future. Maybe it would help if normal descendants also had their own unique mod? Currently, we can also play normal characters to use different sockets for mods, and different skins, (I don't like most ult skins).

[@SealFormulaMaster]

One suggestion I saw that I liked was somehow upgrading the base to ultimate, but that also means players get a "free Descendant slot" doing this, so to be fairer to Nexon, maybe upgrading costs around 50 Caliber (20 for a "slot" and 30 as a "fee") as well?

[@TheMedina9523]

I completely agree with everything they said. I do not really spend on regular descendants. It would be better to spend on ultimate weapons and ultimate descendants. Regular descendants are just MR experience and nothing else.

[@IsureamFalling]

Yeah it happened to me with valby , but I was so happy she got an ultimate that I didn’t care , just learn your lesson and wait for the ultimate

[@ClaudeDunnigan]

Reality is, they are there for the money, thats how a company exist and improve, so a realistic solution for the players and them would be an upgrade package in the shop to level up your normal descendant to an ultimate one, that way, they still make money and player's are happy , player retention is crucial for them

[@navi8801]

For DPS/ability based centric characters like lepic/gley/valby yes, having their ultimate version is just straight up the better option. However, i'm a bit more concerned with what they can do for support characters like yujin or enzo to make their gameplay any different than their base version, Other than giving them better base stats. Yujin can already heal the entire party to full HP with duty & sacrifice and clear an entire area with proliferating allergy. Enzo's best mod already gives a very good dps boost to everyone in the party. (giving enzo an aoe mod on his ult version would be really nice though). There is very little character diversity atm, it's a symptom of characters not having ult forms while others are just falling behind with how the game itself is structured. i'm hoping the subsequent content updates alleviate the situation.

[@rafaelgalindo4794]

I will die on this hill that the Ultimate versions should have been like a pokemon evolution or whatever, erasing the normal one and putting the ultimate in its place. You know that whole two hans animation we get when getting a mastery rank? That should have been used when turning our normal into an ultimate. Because having that many characters and slots now is annoying? imagine in the future with 30+ characters plus their ultimate versions. So thats what I think. That way we could invest in the normal character and when the ultimate releases and we get them, we can just level them up when they already have the normal character build.

[@HMSITH]

The devs need to make a upgrade of a normal character to a ultimate one possible, like a progression system wuth a reward after the grind of your normal character and make a grind of your proficiancy mean more sense.

[@maxrosefoxanime7225]

A lot of characters to me will get a ultimate but it just reminds me of warframe since it the same thing personally im gonna probably grind a ultimate luna if we got one but personally i wouldn't count satus as that important of a different but the module are a big thing in my eyes Ultimate ain't a much have it more like they really useful and better version I wish they wouldn't lock some red modules to ultimate characters that the biggest issue pass the dang price of modules Like warframe you can make the same build on 3 different frames and have no issue and can make small adjustments with no issue

[@FedDonovan]

And I totally agree. I know some people will say well. I like to get them anyways. Well that's fine. Go ahead waste all your resources

[@smallpiper2]

I actually encountered this just the other day. I was about to add another catalyst to Gley, (the second decendant i enjoy) but i also started grinding for her ultimate so i stopped myself. I'm actually not upgrading a character i like because of this issue.

[@sam313skunk]

more Elly content, more! MORE! MORE!!!!!

[@Finesse0916]

Yes agree! The problem with ultimate characters They are hard to get due to the very low drop rate. Ultimate characters 3% rate is slim to none chance getting to drop. It's a sneaky but clever tactic nexon is using to Target players wallet to get them to buy ultimate characters for $100 in the store so therefore players are content with what they have so they build their regular character and if you think about it. It still as strong as the ultimate The only difference is that the ultimate has one unique mod that the regular version cannot use. Nexon got to be fair and fix the drop rate A 3% drop rate is a smack in the face and is very disrespectful.

[@blacksage81]

I ran into this issue when I discovered that I'm a Valby main, so I'm not investing in her until I get the Ultimate version.

[@jameswulfgang154]

I feel this wouldn't really be a problem if they modeled it more like Warframe, which also does the base & prime characters. The main difference between Warframe and FD is that you can build craft and do a lot without using a buttload Forma or Reactors (which are dirt cheap and piss easy to get), where as with Descendants you NEED to drop like 6-7 Crystal Catalysts (forma) or a Reactor just to make basic builds because the mods are too damn expensive. So I agree, why should i build up a base character with Reactors and Catalysts when i could just wait, especially given the Blueprints for these mats are often not so easy to combe by right now, especially if your RNG is straight booty.

[@hayseshouhda5730]

Warframe was like this. Ajax already has an ultimate...jeez...if people dont have time to get an ultimate or money to spend then use what you have, you have no choice at that point.

[@grizzlee6063]

it's the same story in Warframe, Primes are better than base, and there is no way to re-invest the upgrade materials, there has to be a big enough carrot to get someone to consider if they want to invest time or money for the Ultimate. Unless the TFD team releases info on an Ultimate release cadence it's going to be tough predicting releases. Warframe does female-female, then male-male and it repeats. If TFD does the same, then in my personal opinion, there is a good chance Blair will be the next ultimate.

[@woodchopper1752]

You could add mastery rank to the discussion people may not be aware if you are looking to raises your rank you have to unlock both variant. So just waiting for the ultimate's you could be hurting your account progression

[@ExiledTraitor]

I'm farming hours of work over a day of grinding 😏 btw idk who would put Elly on mute and just walk away. I'm here for the voice and out of pocket nonsense 🤣🤣

[@luiseatoll6368]

This wouldn't be a problem if Nexon didn't have a price tag on descendant slots. Remove the limit for everyone, refund those that bought slots by returning Calibers and make more cosmetics. That's all they have to do in solving the issue. It's not gonna dent their profits, it's gonna make more people inclined to buy ultimates because there's no limit and they don't have to choose.

[@hieudao1052]

I deleted my 5 cc bunny and 9 cc gley for their ultimate version, feels bad but they serve their purpose. If I like a character that I put effort in using donut and mushroom on them then I don't mind to do it again. If I don't like a character then they no more than fodder for Mastery rank even with their ultimate version so I never invest anything on them. It does suck to swap out a character that you heavy invest in , so I think instead of giving us some gold when you delete a character ,they could give us back the shroom or donut depend on ur choice as a compensation so people can stop crying about how hard to get catalyst and e.activator which drop like candies. On a side note of that ,I'm sorry but I genuinely think those people that complain about CC and EA drop really don't know how to play the game .If it take too much time for you to go farm a dungeon for amos then use those in a quick boss fight that took like less than 20s then maybe Fortnite might be a better option here, because TFD is a grind fest ,that's why its free to play.

[@KniveMikoto]

I fully maxed donut/shroom my Freyna and will DO IT again on her Ultimate. God I love Freyna damn...

[@nemesisastraea6659]

Tell me no one at Forbes has played Warframe, without telling me no at Forbes had played Warframe.

[@andreasschumacher3480]

@@nemesisastraea6659 lmao so true

[@EllyYoutube]

bro... nobody cares about that trash game, why do yall warframe scrubs think everyone has played that crap

[@Vatayah]

I find it crazy WF has their Primes too but most ppl glaze the game anyways- i know trading and stuff, but systems at its core are pretty close to 1:1. Remember investing hard into Harrow and some time later he got his prime- well fuck, at least it's not as expensive there. But i kinda agree, we need better (or more like fun) means to farm exp. Spamming that vespers spot or Sterile Land mission gets tiring fast. Also i wouldnt complain about more ways to get Catalyst BPs

[@pantheonatreus981]

this is the problem when catalyst and activators are expensive, in warframe, both of these are cheap as it literally cost 10 platinum(caliber) each.

[@BetaVein]

There are two factors result in this problem 1. you need to heavily invest to descendants for them to work (Money, catalyst, activator, exp grind) 2. you can't get anything back when dismember a descendant I think dev can try to eliminate one or both these factor to make ppl feel better If I'm the dev, I would do 1. exp transfer: when dismembering a descendant, you can transfer certain amount of exp to a new one, the amount increase depending on how much catalyst you have spent on the descendant 2. constantly reward player catalyst, activator, exp boost from battle pass or seasonal event to cover these spent 3. make all mod cost cut in half so ppl won't have to invest so much, or introduce new system to further increase base mod capacity

[@ManStapler]

I noticed this as a problem, but not enough to complain yet. In Warframe base drops from mostly regular missions, while ultimate from Amorphous. And that is a great system, problem here is, now I want the starters I didn't choose and their percentages aren't all that better then the Ultimates, which makes no frikin sense.

[@Xyerious]

I guess this is a surprise for people who's never played Warframe. I only fully upgraded one none Ultimate character, and that is Sharen for ability duration and some survivability so I can solo outpost. I do the same on Warframe. If I need the none prime for something, I upgrade them.

[@Done_Exactly]

Yeah, this is something I quickly realized when Valby was suspected to be the next ultimate released, like 2 weeks into the game. I only invested 2 cats into her the entire time, just waiting. Enzo is the only non-ultimate character I've fully invested into.

[@daydreaminsanity]

Thats the consequence of not willing to wait when you know there's an ultimate version. He has money anyways and I don't know why he is complainining

[@Yagi741]

but that hasn't been the case since tfd started, warframe has been doing it for years and nobody has complained so I can see which people are making a big fuss about it

[@EllyYoutube]

wtf is a warframe, why do yall silly bitches think the world started with warframe and everyone knows and should know of that game

[@xDagel]

I think they could make the ultimate exclusive mods available for the non ultimate descendants. That way you could still do the builds and don't necessarily feel like the investments are wasted. Them being exclusive in the first place didn't make sense to me. Also i know the game is lacking content but they keep pushing ultimates doesn't seem logical to me other then ofc 💰 Hopefully they will change things for you guys!

[@solruptoryt]

The Ultimate issue is mainly a problem because everyone is hyperfixated on min-maxxing to the extreme (myself included). As it stands currently, you simply don't need to min-maxx that hard in TFD. Almost everything falls over to a semi-built character, with the sole exception right now being Gluttony. So, you don't really NEED an ultimate character outside of the previously mentioned min-maxx potential. I do believe there should be some sort of refund if you dimiss the base version of a character once you obtain the ultimate version, but Warframe has done the standard & Prime variants for years without any sort of issue.

[@nalx22]

While what you say is true, it just feels bad playing a character and investing the time and resources into it knowing there will be a better version of the same character with exclusive mods you won't be able to use. Wouldn't be an issue if catalyst was like forma and it costs 120pp for a 3pack or easily farmable and can fully catalyze a character in an hour.

[@RubenDeAngelo]

You're confusing 'need' with 'the idea of enjoyment' for many. Ultimates propose 2 new build variations and negligible stat boosts. My type of fun is experimenting and having access to ALL modules. So I would want to invest in Ultimates rather than Standards...no? Min-maxing and variability is the essence of replayability in looter shooter games.

[@velliamtube]

Warframe player: "First time?"

[@nedlamberty5814]

Hopefully ultimate Ajax and Kyle got more love in season 1 or heck, even season 2. Our beefy boys just want to contribute 😢

[@4everBlessed97]

I just want normal blue mods to be universal. I main Ajax every module i want to run is Battle or Attack and I can’t have two of the same category 😢

[@mcrich5143]

Ehhhh a non issue for me I had Gley with four catalysts in her and my unlimited ammo and I was perfectly fine to max out ultimate when I got her, like we don’t wanna grind in a grindy game lol

[@Denzamusic]

Take away ultimate "stand alone" when you reach level 40 with your normal character. There should be some type of transition from normal to ultimate. I myself do not like that ultimates is its own character. Would be much cooöer to level up, grind and spend time, and then to be able to upgrade to a ultimate from your character.

[@emanreborn2012]

This has never been an issue in warframe, I invested in regular characters because they didn’t have prime versions and I’m not going to sit around hoping it comes. When it does come, i switch and that's that, my investment in regular characters isn't wasted when I got months if not years of use out of the regular version. To not invest in characters you like because they don't have an ultimate is literally gimping yourself. Enjoy your 50 mod capacity until the ultimate comes I guess? Idk

[@nathanielrasey]

Make Ultimate characters unlock on top of the normal character after getting them to level 40 like........5 times? Give the character stats a boost and give the outfit as a reward for it. That or have the max stats at lvl 40 go up slightly each time you hit lvl 40 with that character to even it out a bit. Spitballing...........

[@alexmercer852]

A really huge problem, TFD was design for wasting all your time in order to get the top OP gear.

[@snowyfang5088]

i've literally said this since beta that the ( BASE version ) should be a required component to get the ultimate version so basically you get the base version and when you unlock ultimate you upgrade your base into an ultimate keeping everything you previously had losing nothing. this should of been the norm but obviously these devs dont care and want you to waste money and only do updates that FIXES obvious issues the game always had in betas and only dealt with them on release so that players would praise them for dealing with stupid issues THEY CREATED. gamers are too stupid nowadays to see that they are being played its funny and heres another FUN fact while its true they are keeping their word of not nerfing characters they are actually implementing specific resistances to mobs/bosses to counter specific op heroes the biggest ones being skill/gun CRIT resistance since we all know enzo/luna and lepic are the most broken in their respective fields because of crit. i really hope players grow more eyes and stop being swayed by them. devs literally have done a ( dev creates a problem - players complain about said problems - devs say they listen to feedback - devs fix problem THEY created - players happy woohoo best devs

[@mordecaigalidonus2863]

Go play Warframe, the crafting in that will piss you off as well. People making a mountain out of nothing. Months from now you same people will be whining about how the "insert descendant here" doesn't have an ultimate yet, after like 1+ years, and you'll cry about how you wanna play this character but don't wanna invest, even tho its been sitting in limbo for a year. Give me a break with this projection shit. Nobody stupid, just anyone with a brain doesn't get mad over something other games are doing already and nobody in that game gives a shit. This game has drawn in so many crybabies i'm starting to think i'm visiting a daycare.

[@MrKnilchking]

Paul Tassi, the guy who complained about the swimsuits

[@TheCallmom]

I am scared to invest in my Kyle for this exact reason lol. I don't wanna waste time...

[@tensu178]

I do not see how ultimates are a must-have, They have slightly higher stats but it's not across the board. The only stats that are boosted are hp, shield, or def. they will get a boost in 1-3 of those stats and it is the same amount for everyone meaning characters like Bunny who get a boost to all 3 are less affected since that means it's only 100-200 or so to each stat. where Ajax gets only def but 1200 or so of it. however, with diminishing returns after you add 1-2 def mods, both characters are gonna have the same effective damage reduction. No character gets any direct power bonus from being an ultimate. meaning their base skills do not do more damage, have a lower CD, etc. Ultimate mods are an argument however they are in no way necessary. I could do all the content without the ultimate versions just fine. If the trend with Valby continues where the ultimate mod will be tied to the new boss they will be even more pointless once that season has passed. We are just power crept past that boss onto the next. also, if we use her as an example it's not like the mods will make the boss be an insta I win button. I unlocked ultimate Valby and set her up to farm gluttony with the mod and found it easier to just use better bossing characters when going in with pugs. I am not saying the ultimate are pointless or not nice to have however they are far from mandatory. I agree it is dumb to invest in a character when your like half a month out from a new season cause at that point just wait and see. I did the same thing I planned on investing some in Freyna, Sharon, and Yuji around when Luna was released but decided to wait and see, I saved up some catalysts and activators and as soon as I saw Freyna was the ulti I started to invest in the other 2 giving me 3 1/2ish months to play with them until one of them possibly becomes an ultimate but if I get 3 1/2 months of use out of them after doing about 5 hours or so of investment it's not going to kill me if I find out one of those two will be an ultimate that is released. Most people are not investing in a lot of the characters because they're just not that great or needed at the moment. Yujin had no place till gluttony came out cause nothing was hard enough to warrant a healer. Esimo, Blair, freyna all need work. Sharen is sadly a one-trick pony with the outpost. Jaybe is a buggy mess, and Kyle is sadly in a spot as a shield healer/support where shields are just not popular at the moment but a simple meta-shift can change that. Luna is highly group dependent so most people who are investing in her are players that are 4 stacking content. Enzo has no ultimate but I see tons of people with heavily invested that even farmed his class mods because he is a good all-around character that is more or less always useful. I however never see Ajax or Viessa normal or ultimate because again most people are just playing the more meta things. These are three prime examples of why "People don't wanna invest in characters cause they don't have an ultimate." is an odd statement when the real issue is "90% of the current content caters to 4 (2 mob farmers and 2 bossers) of our 15 characters that's why no one is investing in the others."

[@micomisosoup]

I invested on valby, yujin enzo 😅 so i hope nexton taking notes!

[@lifeisgood5794]

Not just that, but what about wanting two different transcendant modules for your character? Why doesn't say Coldbloodedness and Absolute Zero have the same brand?

[@anonvoila4883]

"Can't lie, Ultimate Gley is way better than normal Gley. It's hard to choose between the two because, in Warframe, you don't have to worry about an ultimate mod that only works with your prime frame. So, I'm torn between the two. I see reason on both sides, but I also know the long-term and short-term problems. There has to be a middle ground at some point. The ultimate mod alone makes the non-ultimate version completely inferior.

[@RubenDeAngelo]

Truth. Ultimate Gley doesn't even need a DEF mod and she's at optimal defense, freeing a module slot. I can't say the same for Standard Gley. And then there's the huge issue on exclusive Mods.

[@anonvoila4883]

Yep, that's what I mean. Yes, the stat difference is nice, but it can easily be overlooked by adjusting mods to make up the difference. BUT!! And it's a big one, lol. The ultimate mods completely change the game. Now, you have some really overpowered mods, but your normal version can't ever equip because it's an ultimate version only situation. So now, players are forced to pause and wait for the ultimate version. For example, the fireball boy is only overpowered now because of that mod.

[@Qballiz2kool]

They really should let your catalysts and energy activator carry over to the ultimate version. The time it takes to fully build these characters is immense….

[@KingDemonFoxx]

No way I’m grinding an ultimate. Just don’t have time.

[@BuffySwartz]

This IS HOW… my WIFE Freyna is being built, so whenever I BUY alt Freyna she trans(wink) into omega Freyna WITH all my upgrades, I already have on my WIFE ❤ mods guns..and OUTFITS. Ie maid FREYNA wife, with she Long a$$ ponytail ❤❤❤ … kisses Elly! I can’t even buy my alt wife her maid outfit even now. So add anything I bought for my wife Freyna ( we are married already I have paid receipts) ❤

[@mugendragon100]

Question why is it a problem I’m confuse before this game was fully released everyone new it was comparable to Warframe it’s not you never invest in normal characters I new this I consider myself a casual