Green Hydrogen Could Power Your Life Sooner Than You Realize - These Companies Are Making It Happen

[@maxloewe9162]

Green hydrogen is not "an unlimited source of energy", it's a way of storing energy produced by renewable sources and is as limited as these sources.

[@skierpage]

And those renewable sources go a lot further if you electrify transportation, heating, energy, and industrial processes directly instead of making an inefficient detour through hydrogen.

[@OtisFlint]

@@skierpage Exactly, which is why hydrogen is going nowhere, outside of niche applications.

[@chrissmith2114]

According to the EVangelists and greenies renewables are a very cheap and limitless resource, ( but very unreliable as it turns out when you do not have limitless and very expensive storage) Hydrogen is really the only way to make use of unreliable renewables because at least you can store the hydrogen.

[@skierpage]

@@chrissmith2114 it's not "according to," it's truth. Go argue with the economists at Lazard who publish Levelized Cost of Energy analysis now up to v.15. Ignore the reality that the majority of new generation everywhere in the world is wind and solar because they're cheap and quick. Intermittent does not mean unreliable. The obvious thing to do when wind and solar are generating is cheaply charge your EV and heat or cool your building and water in advance. Maybe make green hydrogen as well, but in all the hours that renewables aren't producing, electricity is more expensive, and idle electrolyzers increase your capex. And there are other ways to store electricity; hydrogen storage has yet to prove itself. Even if you don't store electricity, renewables are still a huge win for the environment, because you're shoveling millions of tons LESS dirty fossil fuel into coal and gas plants for hours, days, weeks at a time. (Yes, China is building more coal plants along with hundreds of gigawatts of wind and solar but many of its coal plants have capacity factors less than 25%.)

[@rogerfroud300]

@@chrissmith2114- Renewables are indeed cheap, and with more and more Grid Scale Storage batteries being installed, it can supply all our needs. Hydrogen makes no sense because the end to end efficiency is terrible. The Hydrogen Cult survives on the irrelevant facts that they keep trotting out. It's the most abundant Element... it's Green Hydrogen, there are no tailpipe emissions... yawn. None of this matters. End to End efficiency is what matters, and it's three times better if you have BEVs. Hydrogen had its chance over the past 50 years, and it didn't make it because it's hopelessly impractical and inefficient. Now BEVs are a reality, it has zero chance. If it couldn't compete with ICE cars when there was no competition, it's a dead duck.

[@spencernorman2626]

What everyone dunking on hydrogen seems to conveniently forget is that 747s and cargo ships will never be capable of running on batteries. Semi-trucks going cross-country don't have time to sit around half the time while charging batteries, all while carrying 15,000 pounds of batteries that would have been cargo weight otherwise. Batteries are great, I agree, but they aren't omnipotent and will never be capable of all the things we want to do with heavy vehicles. Bulldozers, planes, dump trucks, and basically everything that weighs over 10,000 pounds or is supposed to carry 10,000 pounds of cargo more than 100 miles need hydrogen. Everything lightweight, low-range, and for infrequent use can use batteries, and that definitely makes more sense.

Green hydrogen can also vanish into thin air faster than you think... Literally

[@user-ub5pn9op2q]

It depends on efficiency, it’s not something that just vanishes with no reason

[@smde1]

At high pressure hydrogen can be very dangerous!

[@Scott4271]

Hydrogen has been on the verge of powering my life sooner than I realize for the last 70 years. It has been and will likely always be the fuel of the future

[@manoo422]

Hydrogen will never be powering anyones life, because its not a fuel. Its nothing more than an energy carrier at best.

[@Furious1Auto]

And because no one has has the common sense to figure out how to make money off of it. Read above, the answer is written.

[@renewableinvesments6826]

Well said!

[@_Stupid_Idiot]

@@Furious1Autoit’s easy to make money off of hydrogen, just scam all the people that are dumb enough to believe in it. there’s a lot of them

[@parrsnipps4495]

Boo!

[@MicahBratt]

I love hydrogen. I used to generate it a lot as a kid. Almost blew my thumb off one time when I tried to blow a syringe full of it at a flame. I learned my lesson.

[@vlhc4642]

Hydrogen users are irrelevant to the problem, hydrogen users can burn both green and grey hydrogen, grey hydrogen is just burning natural gas with extra steps so will never be economical compared to just burning natural gas, which means at end of the day the only question is how much renewable capacity you have to generate potentially economical green hydrogen. As of right now China dominate renewable energy generation, China is the only country with large enough renewable capacity to potentially produce green hydrogen economically, and China is the only one actually building green hydrogen distribution, which means the green hydrogen economy is just where you buy Chinese renewable energy stored in hydrogen form. And let's face it, most hydrogen will be gray, because the whole point is for oil companies to sell natural gas while pretending they're "green", if people actually cared about the "green" part they'd be investing in renewable, as it is "green" is just a PR stunt.

[@stevesonnaquesta]

Seems to be a contradiction between "grey hydrogen is just burning natural gas with extra steps so will never be economical compared to just burning natural gas" and "most hydrogen will be gray, because the whole point is for oil companies to sell natural gas while pretending they're "green"" . Why would grey hydrogen have any significant market share at all when it´s more expensive than just burning natural gas?

[@skierpage]

Green hydrogen is just generating renewable electricity, with extra inefficient steps. We will electrify all the things (cars, buses, trucks, construction, heating, many industrial process, short-range ferries and flying, ...) leaving very few niches for hydrogen. The Forbes reporter could and should have spoken to any number of energy experts who will explain why hydrogen isn't going to happen for land transportation, heating, energy storage, etc...

[@D_Handler]

Not true, Saudi Arabia is building one called the NEOM Green Hydrogen project that will dwarf China's plants

[@MusikCassette]

@@skierpage you are right and you are wrong. Hydrogen for energy storage does not make a lot of sense. But the chemical industry needs hydrogen and actually a lot of it. Right now, that is almost all grey hydrogen. Replacing that with green hydrogen from seasonal surplus is not exactly a small niche. Therefore producing hydrogen is an excellent outlet for that. On top of that there is a lot of chemistry, that would benefit from using hydrogen. first and foremost stealproduction.

[@skierpage]

@@MusikCassette so you agree, the issue is how big are the niches. Obviously hydrogen is a relatively small tail on the big dog of terawatts of renewable energy and storage, despite the cynical hopes of fuel companies addicted to selling atoms instead of electrons. Hydrogen used in refining crude oil into liquid fuels needs to die along with burning fossil fuel; I'm not sure how much hydrogen the rest of the chemical and plastic industries use. Look at Michael Liebreich's hydrogen ladder for the unavoidable uses of hydrogen vs. the dumb uneconomic ones, and Michael Barnard has good analysis of individual use cases for hydrogen.

[@bender9000]

Produce a bunch of energy to store a bunch of energy, but you waste a bunch of energy in the process. Sounds really dumb.

[@hamishbracey5411]

That dosnt make any sense. What you just said is how all fossil fuels are produced

[@skierpage]

​@@hamishbracey5411fossil fuels aren't produced, they're extracted. Natural processes over millions of years turned carbon matter into oil and coal. They're relatively cheap to dig up, if you ignore the massive worsening harms resulting from burning them for energy. Original poster is correct. In most cases, it's stupid to use renewable electricity to inefficiently make hydrogen, when you can just use the renewable electricity directly.

[@madsam0320]

There’s a lot of energy in digging them out and undergoing various processes to refine them.

[@madsam0320]

⁠@@skierpageElectricity cannot be use directly for transportation unless you have long cables connected to the vehicles , even battery EVs convert electricity into chemical energy during charging and converting them back into electricity. Hydrogen has better Wh/kg, potentially longer range than batteries. Good for aircrafts, ships and long distance haulage.

[@skierpage]

@@madsam0320 batteries are good enough for all of land transportation and continue to improve, so almost no one will use the far more expensive fuel. When subsidies for trials of hydrogen buses, construction equipment, large trucks, and trains run out, the vehicles are quietly scrapped, while sales of battery competitors increase. There's a chance for ships and planes.

[@alberthartl8885]

Hydrogen is a cult not a solution. The small amount of green hydrogen available needs to be used for industrial applications like steel or cement production. Storage and transportation of hydrogen is very difficult so it will always limit it's use.

[@jensstubbestergaard6794]

Decarbonizing steel and cement will deliver 16% reduction of GHG emissions and would require more renewables than currently in operation. Neither storage or transportation has reached its final solution so diverse transport and storage methods will have to slug it out.

[@ludger05]

Agreed! I'm more interested in it's manufacturing potential. That the type of debate we need to be having instead the tribal lack of nuance one we're having.

[@guruxara7994]

Hydrogen is the most versatile element in nature.

[@scottkolaya2110]

It's interesting that the interviewer doesn't know enough about hydrogen to ask questions or clarify numbers. Not interactive at all, just letting the companies speak. Hmm. 2:09 love how Plug Power avoids the inefficiency by saying putting in 1MW gives you 420kg of H2. Yes, putting in 1MW all day long or 24MWh gives you 420kg per day. That's 57kWh/kg. A very standard 58% efficient electrolizer. Not counting compression, liquification, transportation, etc. Then he claims a 2:30 it could supply 400 standard sedans. Yes, but only for one day of average driving. Not fill them up like at a gas station, just fill them with one day's worth of hydrogen. I find Plug Power tends to be pretty dishonest in general. 12:18 uses 5MW and produces 2 tons. Since hydrogen is usually measured in kg, I'm assuming metric tons or 2000kg. So 5MW x 24 hrs = 120MWh to produce 2000kg, or 60kWh/kg. That's also average for producing H2 at atmospheric pressure. For reference the most efficient FCEV, the Toyota Mirai can get 70 miles on 1kg of H2, a Tesla Model 3 can get 240 miles on the same 60kWh of electric. 13:21 And then let me get this straight. Your selling Florida Power and Light electrolyzers to produce H2 from electricity to blend with NG and run through a turbine to make, what? ..... electricity. I get it, probably for peak demand. So use 120MWh to produce 2000kg (66MWh hydrogen), then run it through a turbine that's maybe 65% efficient to get 43MWh back out. Hopefully, it's rare that you have to actually use that method.

[@xchopp]

THIS! Best comment under this video.

[@5353Jumper]

The transportation industry only likes hydrogen because it needs to be transported. They hate electrification because it is transported by grid not by truck. Nearly 30% of the global freight transportation industry is just trasnporting fuel. If we reduce our use of fuels it is a lot better for the environment not just direct emissions but also the reduction in cargo transportation demand. So electrified transportation is great for the environment but bad for revenues of global cargo transportation companies. So the cargo industry will gladly support the greenwashing of a fuel over electrification, because they like profits more than they like their grandchildren.

[@skierpage]

​@user-ky7iz6up1v nobody put a handful of backyard tinkerers is going to bother making hydrogen at home, when they can just take their homemade electricity and use it directly to recharge their BEV and in more efficient electric appliances.

[@skierpage]

@user-ky7iz6up1v .... and they all have tiny sales to backyard tinkerers! Besides Lavo's fantasy that Australians will buy its $35,000 home hydrogen energy storage instead of batteries, who else is there? edit: and a year ago Rethink Energy reports "Lavo pivots to MW-scale as home hydrogen faces heat" "Solar will be paired with small-scale hydrogen storage as part of a new project being developed by Sungrow and ‘hydrogen battery’ company Lavo, as part of a deal signed last month. Having previously pinned its hopes on the residential market, this adds to the string of signals that hydrogen may not be set for decentralization to the same extent as batteries." Put up solar, make your own electricity, store it in your EV and maybe a residential battery while your car is out and about. DONE! No screwing around with hydrogen needed. Also, the French loan-word is "voilà," not an oversized string instrument 🎻

[@Clark-Mills]

The problem with H₂ is that you waste ⅔ of the input energy as heat; the hydrogen energy chain is about as efficient as diesel. You'd be far better off using the energy as electricity. Solar and Hydro cost money; the common spiel that "It's from renewables so efficiency doesn't matter" is not a realistic argument.

[@jimj2683]

It is not as simplistic as that. You have been brainwashed by Elon Musk. You have to look at cost, not just efficiency. Is it cheaper to export renewable energy by DC cable (plus batteries) or as a hydrogen product? Because one windmill in the UK produces much less energy than one in South Chile for the same cost. Then it becomes more a question of what is the cheapest way to store and distribute this cheap energy.

[@Clark-Mills]

@@jimj2683 The inefficiency of the: electrolysis / compression / chilling / transport / compression / chilling / fuel-cell chain is well known and simple physics. I don't understand where Elon Musk comes into the equation?

[@synthmaker]

@@Clark-Mills Exactly, as Richard Feynman famously said: "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."

[@5353Jumper]

Add to this the comparison between distribution of electricity vs any fuel. Grid distribution of electricity loses less than 5%, and is fairly low maintenance thin infrastructure. Plus some of the electricity can be created at the endpoint like rooftop solar which cuts distribution losses and bypasses oligopoly providers. Any fuel needs to be distributed with storage and transportation infrastructure which is high maintenance and a lot more materials. Something like 30% of fuel is used just transporting fuel. Hydrogen is even harder to store than gasoline/diesel. Grid electricity and electrified transportation have a massive head start over any fuel solution just with the efficiency of the distribution.

[@stevesonnaquesta]

@@jimj2683 Quite ironic to see an Elon Musk insult in this context, as EM is one of the most cost-aware persons on earth (and Mars 😄).

[@coolblu101]

Hydrogen will never replace BEVs unless there are gigantic changes. It's ridiculously expensive and inefficient and the economics just don't work. In Europe Shell is closing their very few hydrogen filling stations. They have already realized that it just doesn't work.

[@IMGreg..]

Currently the best application for hydrogen is where BEV fails due to size or weight capacity. Large mining and farm equipment, transoceanic shipping, trains and heavy long haul trucking. Trucking still has weight per axle restrictions that reduces the load they can carry because the batteries weigh so much. The above industries produce the lions share of carbon in the transportation category plus aircrafts. Within that segment cars are a small carbon producer. Batteries can't run a tank and get the weight under 60 tons or fuel a fighter, a frigate or a harvester combine running 16 hours per day, in a wheat field miles away from a charging center. Hydrogen can be transported just like diesel can and diesel engines can be converted to run on hydrogen, which is going to be important for small island nations using diesel generators to produce electricity. They have daily blackouts as it is imagine adding BEVs to their power consumption. We have a multi fuel economy now we'll need multiple sources of green energy to power the globe in the future.

[@jplabrecque6708]

🎯💯🎯💯🎯💯🎯💯💯💯🎯

[@jplabrecque6708]

​@@IMGreg..you still have the cost of hydrogen, and hydrogen is crazy expensive to store, also requires huge fuel tanks that weigh almost as much as batteries. Tankers will go offshore wind+wireless power transfer

[@maxwell.l.greene]

Someone obviously didn't listen to the video 😂

[@shanemooon]

Except...BEV's are pretty unsustainable and have negligible environmental benefits compared to ICE vehicles when you take into account their total environmental footprint. Hydrogen is the future. It just needs further investment and development. If the trillions of dollars that are being pumped into EV's went instead into Hydrogen, we would be so much further along.

[@mb-3faze]

Come on Forbes - stop promoting this big oil garbage propaganda. Promulgating this nonsense doesn't do your brand any good.

[@regolith1350]

14:06 "Hydrogen is very versatile. It can be used for fuel, but also as an energy carrier..." Uh... that's not "versatile"; you merely said the SAME THING twice. That's what a fuel IS - a store of energy. It stores and carries potential energy until it's released... by being used... as a FUEL. That's like saying "water is so versatile because it hydrates you, but also you can drink it when you're thirsty."

[@BrianArnold-fh6ks]

There is no such thing as green hydrogen. There is hydrogen from electrolysis or hydrocarbons. Electrolysis depends on method of generating electricity.

[@Y2Kvids]

Hydrogen is good where only 30% electricity can actually be extracted from 100% electricity that was needed to make it . BEV should be the focus , solid state batteries , Battery Swapping , Fast Charging , Energy Dense batteries , Super Capacitors , etc .

[@jensstubbestergaard6794]

It is not very smart to use Hydrogen unless it is the cheaper solution. EV's will continue to improve dramatically and so will electrolysis and fuel cells. So the question is simple will it become cheaper to produce route and hydrogen to power an EV or not.

[@davebax6819]

Charging net works, reducing battery sizes should be the plan, not the fossil fuel history of a huge tank of smelly dangerous fluid to carry around to get the range no one will ever drive in one go.

[@NitishYadav-lb7zc]

​@@jensstubbestergaard6794 only person with common sense in this comment section 🥲

[@TheCybird]

H20 H20 H20 H20 H20 H20 H20 H20 H20 H20 H20 H20 WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO SAY THAT HYDROGEN CAN EASY BE SEPARATED OUT OF THE MOST ABUNDENT SUBSTANCE ON EARTH...... WATER WATER WATER WATER WATER!!! CARS HAVE RUN ON THIS HHO FOR 50 YEARS. BUT SOME OF THE GARAGE SCIENTESTS WHO CREATED WATER RUN CARS... WERE MURDERED.

[@EXSKIN]

Ok

[@Southghost5997]

I am impressed both by the number of idiots spewing nonsense on why hydrogen is the fuel of the future, and the number of people who understand that it is nonsense in the comments.

[@wanjirowe4040]

Amazing and so Awesome! Great job !

[@hotrodplumber]

Hydrogen is currently made using a ton of energy to extract it from natural gas/methane. Every time you change forms of energy or process it there are losses. This is not the answer, just a new business model.

[@mb-3faze]

It's a total money maker for big oil - that's why they are pushing this 'green' hydrogen economy. They know damn well that they hydrogen will have to come from methane for any economical production - more bonuses for them and more environmental damage for the planet.

[@Faisal710]

Please note that solar energy is coming from sun as free energy we need to store it in an something that can store that energy as long as we like and hydrogen is the most reliable thing we can store that energy it is not important if we have higher losses during the process the important thing is that we can rely on hydrogen that we get energy at the time when we need it. And this is what makes hydrogen more reliable than batteries for energy storage because batteries can not store energy for long periods of time on very large scale

[@mb-3faze]

@@Faisal710 ...and this is the fallacy that big oil green washing promulgates. Tell you what, when every single oil, coal, gas and nuclear power station has been shut down because they have been displaced by solar/wind/geothermal then, at that point only, would it make sense to convert green electrons into other energy sources. And, no hydrogen is very difficult to store - in fact it's one of the most difficult fuels to store in that it leaks through everything including solid metal; and it's reactive too, embrittling metals. In addition, molecular hydrogen is environmentally very bad for the environment in that it reacts with OH- molecules in the atmosphere. OH- molecules are the one natural compound that helps remove methane from the air. Hydrogen is a disaster in every way - that probably why big oil likes it so much.

[@hotrodplumber]

@@Faisal710 sorry to say, but nothing is free. Maybe if we were manufacturing the panels locally and not in China your point would be valid.

[@jamesmorton7881]

I missed the part about how much that electricity cost to make enough H2 to fill the tank ( of a car. ). Hint it is not less than $4.50 per gallon of gasoline

[@5353Jumper]

And also that electricity has emission. Of course they will say, "leta use solar to make the zero emissions electricity for the hydrogen production". But that all needs to be compared to just plugging that solar into the grid and bEV and just skipping the inefficient fuel concept all together.

[@maxwell.l.greene]

@user-ky7iz6up1v You're WAY off on the cost of electricity. Listen to 16:25. Solar will cost $0.02/kWh and H2 will be $1/kg in a few years. $0.12/kWh is expensive even for household electricity.

[@5353Jumper]

There is a lot more cost to green hydrogen electrolysis than just the electricity. There are consumables more than electricity and water, there is also the cathode/anode replacement costs. Current estimates at $3-6 per KG cost (not consumer price, just cost to produce) Which makes it sound kinda equal to gasoline but there are a lot of other factors along the way that will make it more expensive by the time it gets to your vehicle. Including transportation, losses, more expensive storage, taxes and someone somewhere is going to want to make some profits. All combined at the filling station most guess around $15 per KG which is a lot higher cost per mile than gasoline (and way more than just taking the same electricity and putting it into a bEV).

[@stevesonnaquesta]

@user-ky7iz6up1v Forget the hydrogen (for your purpose). The 50 kWh electric energy required for producing that 1 kg H₂ will get you about 150 miles in an electric car.

[@skierpage]

​@user-ky7iz6up1v You still haven't given a single reason to make the inefficient expensive detour through hydrogen instead of putting renewable electricity straight into a battery.

[@davidramsay7020]

All good and interesting HOWEVER it will take circa 3x more electricity to make, store and convert the hydrogen to useful output. Yes less weight than batteries but you will need 3 times more solar panels or wind turbines to stand still compared to batteries. Thus three times the running cost.

[@bru512]

Exactly

[@iancormie9916]

What is the round trip efficiency of the electrolizers and fuel cell.

[@haddow777]

Simple basic Hydrogen facts. Hydrogen is a greenhouse gas. 99% of Hydrogen produced today is made with fossil fuels like Methane. Hydrogen is very tiny compared to other molecules or elements, thus it is nearly impossible to contained in an ecenomical fashion, which is why most Hydrogen produced today is made near where it is used. When burned, not all the Hydrogen is converted to water. Some portion of it escapes in its pure form into the atmosphere. By volume, it provides very little energy compared to fossil fuels. 3-4 times as much would be needed to provide the same energy as Methane in combustion. The oil and gas industry knows that green hydrogen will continue to be astronomically expensive comapared to fossil fuel based Hydrogen, which is why they are heavily funding Greenwashing campaigns to push Hydrogen as a clean source of energy. They want to hide their continued fossil fuel production behind a Hydrogen economy. Except, to make the same energy, they would actually need to process orders of magnitude more fossil fuels to equal the current energy levels we're used to. You know, after all the leaking, lower energy density, and losses due to inefficiencies in processing are taken into account. What makes this especially worse is that Hydrogen's greenhouse status comes from lenthening the time Methane stays in the atmosphere. So, because so much more Hydrogen will end up being produced by Methane, and so much more of it will end up in the atmosphere, it will in fact accelerate climate change instead of mitigating it.

[@sanjaygadhalay1523]

Thank you very informative.

[@ShaunKelly-l2w]

Great film🎉🎉🎉

[@davidpiper3652]

Hydrogen is not a fuel. Hydrogen is more about companies' business models and making money than carbon emissions and saving the planet. What we need is a mindset change, not H2.

[@martinhammett8121]

Wow so you use enough energy to power 1000 homes & you make enough hydrogen for 20 fork trucks really ?

[@billysmart24830732]

I got half way through and nothing new. Seems to be a 5-10 year old video with a click bait title.

[@frequentlycynical642]

Uhhhh.....and where does that electricity come from to make the hydrogen? If it's not renewable, or perhaps fusion in the future, hydrogen will require lots of solar, wind, hydro, and fission to be green. If you are making all that electricity, wouldn't it be more efficient to use it directly? Even with battery charge/discharge losses, surely a lot less than making hydrogen. And then, of course, hydrogen must be compressed and stored in cryogenic containers, which lose a percentage every day just sitting around.

[@chrissmith2114]

Due to the unreliability of renewables which make our grid very unreliable the only real use for intermittent renewables is to make hydrogen, 'make hydrogen while the sun shines and the wind blows'.

[@rogiervantilburg3440]

Excellent documentary!

[@smde1]

How well does a fuel cell operate in subzero weather ?

[@CausticLemons7]

Hydrogen seems like one of those things that only takes off when the entire life cycle agrees to make it happen. But once it does I really believe we'll be in the future!

[@mb-3faze]

This is big oil propaganda. They are desperate to get the hydrogen 'economy' established because it is technically impossible, prohibitively expensive and environmentally damaging to generate hydrogen from green energy sources. The energy loss is over 90%. far better to feed those green electrons straight to consumers or to store it in batteries. No, the real and only viable source of hydrogen will be from methane which the fossils in big oil will only be too happy to supply - dumping, of course, prodigious amounts of carbon in to the environment.

[@rogerphelps9939]

It won't. The economics and practical problems are awful.

[@manoo422]

Hydrogen will never have wide spread use unless they can make fusion reactors our normal power source...

[@tubopedia]

Green Hydrogen lol

[@regolith1350]

Hydrogen trains have to be the most pointless green virtue-signalling ever. We've had electric trains for a hundred years. We have long-haul, regional, metro trains, underground city subways, above ground trams & trolleys, all of it running on electricity. We don't need to build yet another parallel infrastructure for trains. We have to improve and green our grids anyway. If we do that, the train systems we already have all get greener "for free" with no additional effort. Hydrogen trains are silly.

[@ramblerandy2397]

Green H2 will always be too expensive compared to direct electricity into batteries. The numbers do not add up for H2.

[@OtisFlint]

15x more expensive. Not competitive at all.

[@ramblerandy2397]

@@OtisFlint Well there you go. The added up numbers do not look good for H2 in any way. It begs the question: Is there any place where H2, green (or otherwise which nobody would want) is competitive?

[@OtisFlint]

@@ramblerandy2397 IMO no. The more I look at the data, the more I see why hydrogen has gone absolutely nowhere in 30+ years of development.

[@ramblerandy2397]

@@OtisFlint Well indeed.

[@guruxara7994]

​@@ramblerandy2397 Yes, for heavier vehicles. The heavier it gets, less efficient BEVs become.

[@lucamuller6729]

Hate to see this. Its a good way for fossil fuel companies to create a dependancy on their products, because green hydrogen will most likely not be used for transportation, but chemical processes that actually require hydrogen, as it is nowhere near the quantities we need. I dont think battery technology will provide solutions to every problem, but it seems like they do the hard work, while some weird tech innovation guru start ups postulate the next revolution. Most of the breakthroughs are not as impotant as relentlessly researching and optimizing existing technoligies.

[@skierpage]

You nailed it. It will take over a decade to build enough electrolyzers and additional renewable power generation to switch the 70-100 million tons of dirty hydrogen currently used by industry annually to green hydrogen. So fossil fuel companies produce promote dubious new uses for hydrogen like land transportation, heating, switching gas appliances, etc. knowing it will only increase demand for their dirty stuff for years to come.

[@guruxara7994]

Anyone can produce hydrogen. You drink 400 grams of hydrogen every day.

[@lucamuller6729]

@@guruxara7994 Not the point!

[@chrismuir8403]

The problem with hydrogen fuel is that hydrogen storage is expensive, and hydrogen fuel is insanely expensive. Even with the high efficiency of a fuel cell, the per-mile cost of driving on hydrogen is almost double the price of driving on diesel or gasoline, and nearly 10x the price of driving on electricity. The only companies that will consider it will be for promotional "Look at how green we are" deals with little actual use. Currently, the cheapest source of hydrogen is steam reforming of natural gas, current retail price about $16 per Kg. Hydrogen from electroysis costs even more. So, how do they plan to get to $2 per Kg? By somehow magically getting "renewable electricity" at only 2 cents per Kwh - but that means EVs could get electricity at that price, and hydrogen still couldn't compete. The mythical "$1 per Kg" price isn't a price they can actually achieve, it's the price they would have to achieve to be economically competitive to electricity - and that sim;y isn't possible. Forbes has slipped up. got caught up in the hype, and has ignored the bad economics of hydrogen fuel

[@jensstubbestergaard6794]

The steam reform production cost without carbon capture and based upon heavily subsidized methane is $1.5/kg so this is the cost point that green hydrogen has to beat. Hydrogen price at the pump is representative for something like 0.00000000000001% of the annual sales. The question you have to ask is whether and when the cost of green Hydrogen drops below grey hydrogen.

[@rozonoemi9374]

How long is a fuell cell good for & what is the cost to replace?

[@tonypastrami3071]

longer than a tesla battery thats for sure

[@rozonoemi9374]

Beep! Wrong, 100,000 miles to replace fuel Cell, costing double of the price of a Tesla battery.@@tonypastrami3071

[@rozonoemi9374]

My 2018 Tesla M# LR, RWD has 159,000 km & still going strong in Canada, with over 450km of range!@@tonypastrami3071

[@onefiniteplanet]

Fantastic! We only need 3x that terrible useless electrical energy to get hydrogen! And we can use that to produce 1/3 the original electrical energy! Reality is hydrogen just makes a really inefficient battery that is slow to charge and bulky, but 20 years ago had advantages over other batteries, which is why 20 years ago EVs were very limited. Hydrogen still has uses in reduction of ores and fertilizer, but any use for energy is now fringe at best.

[@jacobuszwanenburg1629]

Hydrogen is our saviour !

[@fortunehiller9591]

Nice promotional video that completely avoids the politics and challenges of generating green hydrogen.

[@5353Jumper]

And that we need to first answer all the current hydrogen demand for industrial and medical hydrogen with green hydrogen BEFORE we even start dreaming up new applications of hydrogen. The new applications of hydrogen only make sense with green hydrogen produced as a waste byproduct of green grid generation. Except even if we did some day have excess green grid generation to make hydrogen with, our first step should be to eliminate production of Grey hydrogen. If we make green hydrogen for new applications, but keep all the old applications of hydrogen Grey, then ALL hydrogen is still dirty.

[@andrewkaiser7203]

How about a car that is hybrid hydrogen, with a rotary engine, a blower, a supercharger, and a turbo charger. With strawberries on top. What a great idea!

[@simonbowman6206]

the energy needed to make it is massive and the power grid cant handle this item nor is it from green power production. So dues it pollute ? well yes if your efforts to make it are powered from old tech.

[@PotentialExergy2]

This is great work, thanks!

[@davebax6819]

The whole program is nonsense, they can’t really slag off the BEV set up as theirs are just BEV’s with a fuel cell. They then love the idea of wasting KWH of electricity at higher expense (4KWH of Green Electricity to Make 1KWH of Hydrogen Power), its all California, so its lovely, they mention 500 miles, but thats 250 miles as they’ll need to refuel to get back.. and in some cases they are going to burn hydrogen in a ICE, well thats not clean. Is it. These plonkers will spend the next 40 years talking nonsense.

[@PahatRout]

Any indication the cost in creating the hydrogen?

[@D_Handler]

The US governemnt have too much invested in Electric Batteries, it might be an uphill battle to get tax credits from them

[@dmitrykozhin6884]

Green hydrogen has a potential for iron production. 70% of it will be used in metallurgy, and 25% in the chemistry. At most 2% will be used in transportation.

[@RAHellemans]

To produce 1kg of H2 you need 9 litres of clean water so their 1MW electrolyser for quoted the 420kg will require 3.780 tons of water. Where are we going to find all this clean water?😡

[@JongJande]

It is funny that is always non technical people who are enthousiast about hydrogen. When you speak with engineers they will always say that hydrogen is not the solution but a very difficult and expensive way to be used as energy source.

[@jensstubbestergaard6794]

That would be the engineers you happen to talk to.

[@guruxara7994]

Engineers are the ones developing new hydrogen technologies, so your statement doesn't make sense.

[@JongJande]

@guruxara7994 You do not seem to understand what I meant. I am an hydrogen engineer with 30 years experience in the oil and gas industry and I know that using hydrogen as energy carrier is far from ideal as you have to make hydrogen (with an energy source that provides for the energy .....), store the hydrogen which is difficult and expensive, transport it (which is expensive) and store it in the car (which is not convenient).

[@jensstubbestergaard6794]

@@JongJande Your post is retrospective. There have been five cavern storage facilities just like the more than two thousand for Methane. LOHC fits like a glove for pipelines, tankers etc. Topsoe that has built more Hydrogen plants than any other company in existence has just made final investment decision on first stage 0.5GW SOEC electrolyser production facility to be completed i 2024. Good luck trying to explain the foremost Hydrogen expert company on the globe that they have gotten it all wrong!

[@anonymous13141]

Hmmm what if we add another heat pump module to heat up hot water during winter by extracting the heat release during hydrogen gas compression for storage.

[@ARLGD]

Wow, this Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series sounds like an amazing product for outdoor enthusiasts like us! With its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology, it seems perfect for camping trips or as a home backup power solution. I'll definitely check it out for my next adventure. Thanks for sharing this recommendation!

[@ARLGD]

Thank you for your comment! I completely agree, the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series seems like a fantastic product for outdoor enthusiasts like us. Its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology make it perfect for camping trips or as a home backup power solution. I'll definitely be checking it out for my next adventure. Thanks for sharing this recommendation!

[@ARLGD]

Wow, the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series does sound like a fantastic option for outdoor enthusiasts like us! The massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology make it perfect for camping trips or as a home backup power solution. I'll definitely look into it for my next adventure. Thanks for the recommendation!

[@ARLGD]

That Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series does seem like a fantastic option for outdoor enthusiasts like us! The massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology make it perfect for camping trips or as a home backup power solution. I'll definitely have to look into it for my next adventure. Thanks for sharing your recommendation!

[@ARLGD]

Thanks for sharing! The Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series does sound like a great option for outdoor enthusiasts. With its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology, it's definitely worth considering for camping trips or as a home backup power solution. I hope you have a fantastic adventure with it!

[@allahcult3128]

In 2040 all these companies will be bankrupt ! Why you ask? Because H2 costs $9.24 per KG and Diesel is $0.94 per litre !

[@frozenrobert5735]

Green hydrogen is always going to be "just around the corner". It shares an Uber with Fusion energy and Carbon Capture.

[@JohnRoss1]

But we know carbon capture will never work... unless, maybe when they figure out fusion. 🤣🤣

[@guruxara7994]

Electric vehicles were "just around the corner" since 1890, and now it's a reality, electric vehicles are everywhere.

[@tedwalford7615]

This whole story seems to have pointedly ignored the honest economics of the production, storage, and transportation of hydrogen. Not even counting the infrastructure, this hydrogen fairy tale is presuming mystical other sources of practically free energy PLUS government subsidies, both of which these company managers did mention.

[@MrPizzaman09]

I believe it will be tough to get to total "well to wheels" cost for hydrogen to be competitive, even if the generation cost is near zero. Storing and transporting hydrogen is very costly and difficult due to it's small molecule size, high pressures and low energy density. I think for some niche applications, the cost will be less of a problem and the higher energy density than batteries will win out. But batteries charged on the grid and in vehicles will be more efficient than hydrogen, which means it will likely be more expensive with hydrogen. Durability of fuel cells is still not there after decades of work and they are still very expensive. Again, some applications it may work (hydrogen in power plants), but I think batteries as way of storing energy will be cheaper in the vast majority of cases, especially as their chemistries get better.

[@jamesmorton7881]

10 million barrels a day, nope. Need nuclear now. Well yesterday. We are screwed.

[@DAVID-io9nj]

Which will be first, cheap hydrogen, or fusion power?

[@texanplayer7651]

I say... Half Life 3

[@2bilko]

Hydrogen will never happen for cars to any significant extent, and probably not for any ground transport

[@stevenanderson4644]

"The government should give us money so that we can make a profit on our product."

"Hydrogen is the universes most sbundant element". The very first sentence. You don't have to listen any longer than that.

[@mazdamaniac4643]

This is all well and great, but the on-vehicle storage problem still isn't being discussed. The hydrogen needs to be stored in a tank at either a very high pressure, or a very low temperature, but so far no manufacturer has managed to make a storage tank that's light enough but must also survive repeated low-high temperature/pressure cycles without catastrophic failure. They still haven't figured out the embrittlement problem, because hydrogen causes most metals to go brittle and crack. Until these big problems are solved, hydrogen is simply not going to work in any safe, practical manner to be certified on a road vehicle.

[@Amukalalu]

Toyota has been using carbon fiber in there hydrogen vehicles to store hydrogen which is working out just fine.

[@mazdamaniac4643]

@@Amukalalu Uhm, that's not what I heard mate. Carbon fibre isn't some wonder material, it delaminates when subjected to repeated pressure cycles...as the unfortunate folks aboard the Titan submersible found out. I've seen a report by the NHTSA on hydrogen storage tanks that were designed for road use and had to be tested by them to be certified for use in vehicles, one stainless, several types of carbon fibre (some with a ptfe liner because CF is porous to hydrogen) and others that were steel in various designs. Every single one of them failed every test. The stainless steel one started to become porous until it cracked, all of the carbon fibre ones delaminated (either due to cold temperature or pressure cycling) with the ones with the ptfe liner only lasting a little longer, because the liner tended to collapse inside the tank, all of the steel ones fractured from embrittlement. Not one of the tanks under test lasted more than 100x temp/pressure cycles before catastrophic failure, some of the cryogenic tanks ruptured on the test stand while they were sat there, doing nothing. Imagine what would have happened if that was inside a vehicle in a car park...kaboom. It's a very serious problem, so bad it seems, that the media just doesn't want to cover it for political reasons because they're being paid to portray hydrogen technologies as all shiny and the fuel of the future, disregarding it's inherent problems. Here in the UK, the Government was making a big deal about piping hydrogen through the existing natural gas network to people's homes. It sounded great, until it was revealed that most of the pipework is made out of HDPE...a material that is completely porous to hydrogen, with the rest being steel..which embrittles and fractures. Trying to do this as-is would have resulted in major gas leaks under roads, streets and housing until it found an ignition source. The cost of replacing the network with PTFE-lined stainless steel pipes ran into the £billions and would have led to an infrastructure project that would take decades to complete. You don't hear about hydrogen gas in the natural gas network anymore...that idea fizzled out as fast as the gas would have done through the pipework. It was also found that you'd need 3x as much hydrogen to burn the same amount of heat as natural gas does. The energy requirement to generate that much hydrogen to replace natural gas is immense, never mind storing it in specialised tanks. In the end, it was deemed that it just wasn't worth it and practically every hydrogen-generation project in the UK has been quietly shelved since.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Not fine. They are making huge losses making not many cars. The sunk cost fallacy.@@Amukalalu

[@shichynwang]

Why hydrogen must be labeled green whereas electricity is never labeled black?

[@brucetilley5855]

Interesting, but what if carbon negative hydrogen can be produced for less than $1.00 per kg? Is that better than green hydrogen?

[@virgilius7036]

Don't these ignorant people know that hydrogen mixed with air explodes? Refueling stations will be blown up by the negligence of motorists.

[@zapfanzapfan]

1 MW -> 420 kg hydrogen? Per day? That would be 70-ish % efficiency.

[@moonwalker605]

With the help of "First Graphene" and their patents, it may be possible in the future to produce hydrogen, graphite and graphene from crude oil or natural gas. Current batteries are dirty, have a poor CO2 balance and recycling is difficult! Recently, a large amount of natural hydrogen was found in France. Hydrogen provides clean energy. Batteries are the cause of destructive mining!

[@offroadsnake]

The most important oil sands. Yeeapp baby canadian and Venezuelan Will appreciate that 🎉

[@wind-leader_jp]

やはり最終的に残りそうなのは水素エネルギーなんでしょうね。 しかし今回のテーマにあるようにグリーン水素の製造にはまだまだコストが掛り、日本でも一般には広まっていない。 それに水素へ移行するには社会構造にも問題が有る。 TOYOTAも国内のレースではエンジンで水素を燃焼させているタイプを実験しているが、どうやら燃焼時にNoxのような不純物が発生するらしい。 だから市販車で投入しているミライは水素の燃料電池車なのですが、現在燃焼機関を製造している関連会社を延命させるために水素の燃焼型を実験しているように思う。 それにこの動画で知りましたがグリーン水素を作るには想像以上に電力が必要なんですね。（製造時に熱は発生しないのか？） 別の観点で将来的には原材料となる水も心配です。 雨が多い日本でも今年の異常気象（ジェット気流の変動）で雨の通る地域が変わり、複数のダムで渇水が進行しました。 地球が暑くなり、インドを筆頭にこれからエアコンが急増される事が予想されており、そうなると今後室外機から更に熱が発生するだろう。 子供や孫に少しでも安定した環境を残すにはもっと抜本的な省エネ対策が必要で、もう既にかなり追い詰められた状況だと思う。

[@JdublR1980]

I'm investing in Fuel Cell Energy (FCEL) Who has a contract with Exxon testing it's carbon capture technology..

[@josea1531]

Did you ever invest in it? What do you think about it?

[@junkvista61]

Wow, I wonder why they don't make/market storage tanks for H2 use in rooftops solar solar, competing with battery makers. Homes with solar arrays can make H2 and store it for later use instead of batteries, create competitive market for rooftops solar.

[@charlescole-p9v]

Hydrogen will never be a good choice for consumer vehicles because of the huge costs involved with infrastructure and storage, and the related safety issues. And only a maybe for semi trucks & shipping.

[@-Real_Diesel]

Game changer!

[@delavan9141]

My god it's yet another pie-in-the-sky hopium piece on hydrogen. By this point it's a never-fails-to-attract-eyeballs topic that writers can go to when there's no real news to cover.

[@tonypastrami3071]

you mean like the msm ukraine war. you stick to that

[@terenceiutzi4003]

If only we had enough energy to produce it and a safe way to store it!

[@richkalbus4346]

the sun does come up almost every day.

[@terenceiutzi4003]

@richkalbus4346 but you need 50 HP to produce enough hydrogen to produce 1 Hp. How many billion solar panels will we need, and how many more planets to destroy with them? The molecules are so small that they can pass through solid steel. So where do we put the bombs that we store it in?

[@odoacredacalcutta5085]

I feel like there's a lot of propaganda against hydrogen power, like it's a waste of time because it will never be efficient enough. Most of it is due to companies that produce electric vehicle and obviously don't like a shift in the market.

[@Charvak-Atheist]

Hydrogen powerd Cargo Ships, Airplane is fine. But Hydrogen power train doesn't make any sense. Train can just draw power directly from overhead electric cabel. There is no need of staring energy in this case. You are using electricity and water to generate Hydrogen. And then using that Hydrogen to again get electricity 😅 Why not use electricity directly. Yeah for Ships, Airplanes it makes sense because there is no overhead cabel. You have to store energy.

[@AlanWilliams-su4bs]

Hydrogen is useless for road transport because to replace a single petrol delivery tanger would require 18 such tankers. It’s lunacy to propose hydrogen for road transportation.

[@chrismuir8403]

"Gray hydrogen" is an expensive fuel source and is not economically competitive to petroleum fuels and is considerably more expensive than electricity. "Green hydrogen" is even more expensive than "gray", so is even less economically competitive. Cummins has been working on fuel cells for 3 decades, but still can't make them economically competitive.

[@chrismuir8403]

The "hydrogen train" they bragged about in Germany - was recently taken out of service. It cost too much to run and had reliability issues.

[@ChakravarthiT]

😂😂😂😂 10:15 Running train with Hydrogen is not a good idea. You are using Electricity & Water to generate Hydrogen, again using that Hydrogen to generate Electricity!! why that is needed??😂, why can't you use Electricity directly for trains? 😂😂😂 just make sure that Electricity got generated from green sources, like Solar or Wind or Nuclear. For Ships 🚢 or Trucks 🚚 this is fine but not for Trains. First 🚅🚋 make all trains across the world runs only on electricity + this solution for 🚚 and shipping🚢 , that itself will solve significant amount of worlds 🌎 climate issue. For airplanes ✈️ optimize this technology and For cars better continue with Li-ion or Sodium or Silicon based batteries 🔋... i feel with these in place we could solve significant amount of worlds 🌎 climate issue right away.

[@southerntesla]

I like the video, but the title is misleading. They don’t really discuss how these companies are achieving Green Hydrogen. The tech on making Hydrogen is cool and improving, but none of the companies say how they are getting the electricity for their systems.

[@ghoust592]

Natural Gas of course

[@Morassabe]

Ridiculous. Still uses combustion technology, and with Hydrogen, the parts of the combustion engine must be alot stronger than what is used currently. You also still have all the same maintenance issues that fossil fuel vehicles inherently have. Hydrogen is also explosive, and kept under pressure in a vehicle, one can only imagine the devestation that could occur in an accident. Toyota seems to be going all in on hydrogen. Not really a viable alternative mode of producing energy.

[@Sellers.Realtor]

The refinement to get green hydrogen loses too much energy and takes to much time to make and retain. I'd rather take modern nuclear. Green hydrogen needs a lot of innovation.

[@A3Kr0n]

I don't want to drive around with a very hard to contain, highly compressed gas that burns without a visible flame. Thank God this ain't' gonna happen.

[@renemaxim8453]

A scam. Who paid for this lie? German OEMs?

[@booobtooober]

Do you know ?!? H2 cars are 100% electric, H2 goes into a fuelcell and electricity comes out, which replaces the battery. The fuelcell in a Mirai cost $35,000 and its only good for 150,000 miles. Electrolysis puts 3X more electricity in than you get back. The above plus additional inefficiencies along the energy path, H2 cars require 5X more electricity at the generation source than BEV's The above means a world of H2 cars needs 5X the energy production (thus 5X the cost) as a world of BEV's H2 station cost $10,000,000 - NACS (Tesla) chargers cost $50,000 There's so much more cost throughout the H2 process, the complexities of compressing, storing, transporting, all the infrastructure requirements, in addition to the high cost and degree of personnel and maintenance required throughout the entire complex H2 ecosystem. If this hasn't convinced you that H2 is a fools errand, then you're drunk on the koolaid.

[@MichaelSanchez-vp3db]

Why there is no H. fuel station in Las Vegas

[@stev8020]

We "the hydrogen industry" advice to use hydrogen. Why don't let competitors speak as well? provide some different viewpoints

[@jozsefveres9532]

These days need to invest to Hydrogen.

[@jensstubbestergaard6794]

The argumentation against Hydrogen is centered around alledged inefficiencies leading to too high economic costs. The cost of solar and wind power is going to continue down and so will the cost of generating, transporting and storing Hydrogen. Transporting and storing electrons is very expensive and allthough it too will go down in cost there simply is less potential for cost drop and hardly any potential for efficiency improvement.

[@TimberFrameFarm]

Hydrogen is an really inefficient battery that requires extra infrastructure. I don't see how it competes with any mainsteam use case.

[@rozonoemi9374]

Renewable Electricity is the # 1 power for BEV. Before the cost of hydrogen comes down, you have to build the infrastructure which will be prohibitive in cost.

[@jimdonatelli2012]

is it economical comparded to oil fuels ?

[@MusikCassette]

Well if you actually pay for the CO2 you put in the atmosphere oil fuels are not economical at all. However hydrogen is not economical compared with electrification and other storage mediums.

[@MusikCassette]

having said that, we actually need a lot of hydrogen for the chemical industry. And it is still quite a while of, that this can be satisfied with green hydrogen.

[@peterjackson2625]

Hydrogen is a very inconvenient fuel. As the lightest molecule, to store a useful amount, it has to at very high pressure, or liquefied or kept colder than liquid nitrogen or liquid oxygen . Being the smallest molecule, it is difficult to seal. And t6 last gas you want to leak anywhere - is hydrogen. We have all seen what happened to that airship. I don't want a hydrogen powered vehicle Thanks.

[@ngana8755]

Wow. I'm amazed at all the negative comments. It appears the viewers are NOT impressed with hydrogen's attributes as a renewable energy solution.

[@ligiaproenca1211]

Cost factor is very important To break down the cost will be highjy effective in green hydrogen

[@EXSKIN]

Didn't Germany just get rid of it's Hydrogen trains, reason too expensive so no it's not going to power my life sooner than I realized.

[@gudguy1a]

very good, but, I had to give it a thumbs down and stop 1/2 way through. TOO MUCH background music and too distractingly loud...!!!

[@rap36case]

Not new. Hamburg harbor is full of windmills used to produce hydrogen. Liquid hydrogen is available at filling stations in Germany.

[@JongJande]

And a typical windmill will do not more than 4 MW max and average 1 MW ... Do the sums and see that you need huge amounts of windmills. Windmills are not an solution. We have to go for Thorium LFTR ..... And then you can produce a synthetic liquid fuel such as methanol. And maybe a Thorium battery. And forget the CO2 which was invented by the globalists as a means to confuse people.

[@rogerphelps9939]

No it is not.

[@rap36case]

Hydrogen in hamburg

[@simonmccullagh278]

Hydrogen is the future