Ford Model T - A Closer Look: Coil Boxes (Trembler Coils)

[@brucekivi]

⁠perfect sense, thanks so much. On the very modern cars now, many of them have an individual coil for each spark plug I believe. My old 64 Mercury has the single coil of course. Also, I guess it has two separate ignition systems, one for starting and one for running. When you turn the key back from the start to run (after it’s started) it switches to the system coming from the alternator. Something like that anyway. I never knew until I studied ignition systems a little. It’s an adaptation from the early Model T system it seems. Also now the individual coils are a throwback to the system on the T. Biggest difference of course is all the computer controls via sensor input. No thermostatic springs controlling the choke or a manual spark advance. Fascinating to see the technology advance and also borrowing from the past.

[@ModelTMitch]

Thanks for your comment 🙂

[@Dan-pv9wm]

Love the old tech, Always wanted to know more about he Model T and how it worked, your videos answer a lot of questions! THANKS!

[@Lotharyx]

You are adjusting the spark gap clearance by bending the armature mount which strikes me as a rather coarse method. Why aren't you instead adjusting the height of the fixed portion, which appears to be designed for that and would offer much finer control? The bolt with the spring around it, it looks like if you loosened the nut, that would widen the gap for lower current, or if you tightened it, it would lessen the gap for higher current. Or are the looks deceiving?

[@jrflywheel9386]

Mitch, Thanks for posting your interesting videos. Please post more if you have time. Good film.

[@ModelTMitch]

There will be another video coming soon - how to change the band linings in the transmission - just have to set aside a weekend to pull the gearbox apart!!

[@jrflywheel9386]

***** Your videos are much appreciated. I know that technology for motor vehicles has changed beyond the recognition of old Henry Ford and his colleagues, but i'm sure these old men would be proud to know that their machines are still running along, all those many years later. Nice one mate.

[@ModelTMitch]

Ron - I'll do a full ignition circuit video soon... The firing of each spark plug is dictated by the timer at the front of the engine, similar to a distributor on a modern car, except the timer directs incoming current, not outgoing like a distributor. Yes, poor contacts on the coils can result in poor spark.

[@zzzdogutube]

Mitch, interesting! I hope you show me how the whole ignition system works now that you got my interest. I don't understand how the spark gets to the plug and at the right time. Also I assume that is the current draw of the coil 1.3A. What happens if the tremble contact gets worn and makes poor contact? Low spark output ? Thanks good video. Ron from NY USA

[@clemburke1668]

Another great video. Thank you

[@LMacNeill]

So these coils are constantly running while the key is on Battery, and the "distributor" (I know it's not called that, but I can't remember offhand what it's called. Timer, maybe?) completes the circuit from the coil box to the spark-plug at just the right time to cause a spark to go off inside the cylinder. Is that how it works? What about if you're running on Magneto? Isn't that a giant magnet on the flywheel, ripping past a coil and inducing a large current in it? I'd love to see a video about that sometime.

[@richdavis5697]

You are thinking of the commutator. Someone may confirm, but I think it provides primary energy to the correct coil for the power stroke of that cylinder. The magneto can provide the energy instead of the battery; that is the only difference in the ignition circuit with the magneto. That is why all Model T Fords can be operated without a battery (although you should remove the generator if the battery is not there). The buzzing sound is only heard with the battery because there is no magneto energy when the engine is not running and the engine noise drowns out the buzzing sound that is occurring at all times when the engine is operating.

[@timefink1]

do the spark plugs spark all the time .how do you control the timeing?

[@larrygall5831]

You could leave an old coil in the tester and let it double as a spark plug tester. Interesting way to make spark BTW. I never seen anything like it.

[@MrUltraworld]

I think these cars were produced in Australia, Geelong I think. I saw a list of factories located all over the world.

[@twistedyogert]

Where do you find those coils? Also, it seems like they'd wear out after a few thousand miles. And I thought changing the sparkplugs on my Honda scooter was hard to do.

[@brucekivi]

Interesting how these work. Does the ignition system require a charged battery at all times or is there another system on the vehicle to generate the 6 volts needed by the primary circuit? Also, how is the ignition timing set, so it fires at the correct point in the compression stroke? Fascinating to see how the systems have evolved over the years. Thanks much!

[@ModelTMitch]

Ignition on mine needs a charged battery for starting, then I switch immediately over to magneto once the engine is running, as it provides a bit extra current than the battery. Timing is controlled by the timer at the front of the engine. Where a distributor on a modern engine allocates high voltage from a single coil to each spark plug, the timer on a T allocates low voltage to each ignition coil in sequence. Hope that makes sense 😄

[@rayfridley6649]

While the Model T's engine is running, does the magneto charge the battery?

[@ModelTMitch]

For later Model T's with a battery installed, there was also a gear driven generator which charges the battery.

[@rcchar]

But how dues the engine control firing on each spark plug?

[@ModelTMitch]

+Randy Charlton There is a timer at the front of the engine. Similar to a distributor, except, where a distributor redirects high voltage from a single ignition coil; to each spark plug. The timer on a Model T redirects 6 volts to each of 4 coil boxes, and *then* to the spark plugs.

[@gregorymalchuk272]

@@ModelTMitch So it's more of a commutator.

[@rcchar]

You said the car has a distributor but the spark plug wires hook up the the coils. What does the distributor do?

[@ModelTMitch]

+Randy Charlton the car has a Generator, not an Alternator. The Generator provides charge for the battery. Prior to the introduction of electric lights and starters, there was no battery, and no generator. There was a brief intermediate period around 1915-1916 where the Model T had electric headlights but no battery - the lights were powered by the magneto - so the faster the engine revved, the brighter the lights, and when the engine stopped, so did the lights! Hope this helps.

[@rammgarr]

mitch what was the difference from the model T and the modell A

[@Kaputnik11]

RAMM GARR Ford Model a has more horsepower, a standard 3 speed with a standard pedal layout. A Ford Model T was made 1908-1927 a model A was made 1928-1932

[@timefink1]

nice information thanks.

[@99snubby]

is there a 12 volt upgrade?

[@cool386vintagetechnology6]

Unfortunately, simply measuring coil current with a "buzz box" type tester will not reveal multiple sparking. Excess current current simply wastes power and wears out the points faster - this is not the factor that causes multiple sparking. That is determined by the upper point cushion spring. Too little current results in a weak spark and misfiring at low magneto or battery voltages. Multiple sparking causes less than perfect running on magneto. The only way to check for its presence is to use a hand cranked tester, Strobo Spark, or electronic tester like this members.iinet.net.au/~cool386/tester/tester.html Nevertheless, a buzz box tester is far better than nothing or other less scientific methods that have been used.

[@moviebod]

Very interesting

[@MrCWillar]

Very Nice Vídeo !!!

[@sherwoodchevy]

Mitch,so the model T had a "WASTE SPARK" set up! plugs were firing all the time! Not like in a distributor and point car where the coil fired the plug at top dead center?

[@ModelTMitch]

Actually no, the plugs aren't firing all the time. The timer at the front of the engine controls the flow of low current to each coil, which then flows to each plug. A Distributor controls high voltage, a Timer controls low voltage.

[@cavimike9734]

If this were a wasted spark setup, there would only be two coils, each coil would run to two cylinders. The cylinders that are at TDC for exhaust stroke would fire (waste spark) at the same time the as the cylinders that are at TDC for compression stroke. Anytime you see an engine that has exactly half the amount of coils for the amount of cylinders it has, it's equipped with a wasted spark system.

[@mordantly]

Awesome nuts n bolts vids. The theme song is twice as loud as the narration.

[@wallacejacobs626]

It is not pre-ignition