Model T Ignition: What coil testing can tell you, and what it CAN'T.

[@shamilton6328]

This is easily my favorite and most useful channel for helping me with my car. Thank you for the effort

[@flivverchannel]

You are welcome! I enjoy making the videos and am glad you find them helpful. Cheers!

[@flivverchannel]

Happy Easter everyone!

[@russelmaclean4416]

Good show. Tungsten seems to scum over if left for a long time without the engine being started. General Motors Service Manuals mention to always check and clean the contact points before putting the new set in. Watched your last show with Mitch Taylor but got the time mixed up so didn't see it on the upload. Australia imported right hand drive Ts from Canada and did some assembly. I wonder if they had any of the Cdn. dealer bulitins or design drawings that survived as all of the ones here in Canada were thrown out by mistake or lost. Especially as it pertains to body's as they were different from the American Ts in the wood structure. Even a Canadian parts book might give a little detail. Interesting show tonight. Can't have too many gauges. Doesn't take much to put the performance off color when you only have 20 HP to begin with.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks Russel. I thin the Aussies do have some Canadian documentation - at least I see in some of the forums, when Canadian service buletins etc are dicussed, the Aussies seem to have a lot of it. Cheers!

[@bwasman8409]

If I get a coil to rebuild I put a new capacitor in automatically....experience has taught me that for a couple bucks for the part it's a wise decision! I consider it a major part of the rebuild.

[@flivverchannel]

The capacitor seems to be a weak link. Thanks for watching!

[@bwasman8409]

I've read the secondary coils are very prone to over heating and don't have the longevity necessary for them to be replacements, but the best reason for dismissing them is replacing them. Try it sometime just for grins and you will find out why no one wants to do it.

[@mikejohn5573]

How about a video showing how the coil boxes are activated in sequence according to the firing order ? Thanks for the video.

[@flivverchannel]

Great idea! I'll do it. Thanks for the suggestion.

[@shedbythetracks]

Very informative! I didn't know so much went into testing coils. Cheers

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for watching. We will remain 'mum' on your distributor ignition.

[@ColtonRMagby]

Happy Easter, Steven. This is a lot of good information people need to know going into the Model T experience so they know what tester(s) and associated bits and bobs they'll need ahead of time.

[@flivverchannel]

Thank you for your kind comments.

[@ColtonRMagby]

@@flivverchannel You're welcome.

[@donniebrown-mv7hb]

Very good video. Lots of good info.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks Donnie. We keep learning stuff.

[@TheGibby3340]

Very interesting Gents. Thank you very much indeed. 🍻

[@flivverchannel]

Our pleasure. Glad you liked the vid!

[@markosterman419]

Enjoyed that … thanks so much. Wish I could afford the ECCT … “currently” use an old HCCT and it seems to serve ok.

[@flivverchannel]

The HCCT is such an elegant device. I love how it exactly simulates the car

[@plywoodpalaceToddTouchberry]

Great video. I'd love to see a video on the E- timer one day.

[@flivverchannel]

I'd like to get an eTimer and do a comparison against an orig Ford Roller Timer, and say a NewDay Timer. That would be interesting.

[@plywoodpalaceToddTouchberry]

@@flivverchannel I ran the E timer on the #coast2coast4hydrocephalus trip. Still had to clean it out several times. We used contact cleaner

[@mikejohn5573]

The current or amperage of the coil test inms indicative of the duty cycle of the switching.

[@TedOption]

Pure genius. Greetings from Detroit.

[@flivverchannel]

Hello Ted in Detroit! Thanks for watching

[@Veterandoktorn]

Thanks for a fantasticly detailed and thorough video! I'm having trouble with my coils, so this was very valuable

[@flivverchannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@tomsawyer247]

Will an 8 volt battery harm the coils?

[@flivverchannel]

I don't think so. I've tested them to 12v with no issues, and a strong magneto is even higher voltage. 8v will be a little tough on the electric starter, if you have one. Lots of people prefer 8v - I haven't tried it.

[@mikekossor1980]

Steven, I applaud you and Russ for your efforts but many incorrect details that I fear may mislead new folks trying to learn the Model T ignition system from your high quality video. I would encourage you to research and verify the following concerns. Recommend viewing the MTFCA coil testing and tuning webinar: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIrGeHdjbbSfadU a. High voltage AC from rotating magneto (8:18) - The Model T magneto is a Low Tension (ie low voltage) AC system producing 25 to 40V peak at normal engine speed. b. “Shower of sparks” (8:37) - Yes, but only the first spark initiates combustion and must occur at the correct time relative to piston position. c. Buzz coil repeated sparking at ~200Hz (8:40) - Confusing buzz coil operation with Modern Multi Spark Discharge (MSD) ignition of modern cars - completely different scenario. Buzz coils buzz too slow (~200Hz) to offer a 2nd or 3rd chance of ignition even at Low RPM. MSD operates at much higher frequency; 5,000 Hz - 15,000 Hz d. A properly operating coil will really make a difference at high RPM (9:32) - No, a set of 4 properly operating coils, all adjusted to fire spark the exact same time after being activated will make a difference. e. Coil Tuning (11:20): - Misidentified point elements, functions and entire purpose; so each coil takes the same time to fire spark once activated to fire spark by the timer. f. Cushion Spring (11:30): - The bottom point element is the Vibrator Spring which is primarily responsible for setting the coil dwell Time to fire spark. The cushion spring is the Upper point element primarily responsible for preventing double sparking. g. ECCT doesn’t check the current (44:55) - The ECCT absolutely does test coil current is within a nominal range when spark fires. The Poor LED will illuminate if outside the nominal range. The ECCT software actually displays the coil current at the time spark is fired. h. ECCT operates on 6V not checking under magneto conditions (44:59) - The ECCT operates on 12V using a fast pulse of electricity that emulates magneto operation at high RPM where ignition timing is most critical. DC versus AC test conditions is not a valid issue. The Model T magneto AC output Never alternates polarity (AC) during a coil spark event; the mag pulse is either positive or negative. the ECCT mimics the positive magneto pulse at high RPM. i. ECCT adjusted coils may test high current on the Buzz Box or HCCT so re-adjust for coil current to prevent overheating (45:46, 47:10, 50:35, 51:00) - NO! Do not De-tune ECCT adjusted coils based on buzz box or HCCT coil current. A properly functioning Model T coil that is properly adjusted for equal and consistent firing Time on the ECCT will NOT get very hot very fast operating on 6V or even 12V battery based on test data (See this post: mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20556&p=157543&hilit=left+buzzing+continuously#p157543 ) Do you have data that supports your concerns? Regardless, Model T coils should not be allowed to buzz continuously for any prolonged time; more than the the time it takes to turn on ignition power and walk around to hand crank the engine ~20 seconds. j. Adjust the pressure on the upper plate (46:26); if Buzz box coil current too high - The upper point element is the Cushion spring element. Its primary function is preventing double sparking not coil current. Buzz box (or HCCT) current reading is a consequence of proper coil tuning or equal and consistent firing Time, NOT the objective. k. ECCT Capacitor Test (47:38, 52:00) - Incorrect procedure. Capacitor test must begin with coil point CLOSED, installed in the ECCT when Power is turned on or when selecting the capacitor test. The points can be opened by finger or by inserting paper between the points BUT the Test button is pressed within 5 seconds and held open until test finishes. The paper MUST be removed from the points before re-testing the capacitor or the capacitor WILL test Poor! l. ECCT Coil Test Result is Good with Bad capacitor (52:39) - Incomplete test procedure; The Good coil test result simply indicates the coil charged and fired (points opened) at the correct time and did so consistently at 0 deg +/- 1 deg 95% of the time or better. The operator must also verify the coil is producing a spark that jumps the 1/4" spark gap in the side spark window each and every time during the single spark coil test or multi-spark coil test activates the coil. The coil test fails if there is missing or no sparks fired. m. Summary (54:54) - Power source: ECCT 12VDC, Test Current Draw: should be checked.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks Mike! We are learning. We will both study everyone of your responses, and address them all. Appreciate your time making this thorough reply!

[@mikekossor1980]

@flivverchannel you are welcome and thank you for receiving them in the constructive context they were intended and open to any discrepancies you may find.

[@mikekossor1980]

Any status updates or corrections to report after studying everyone's response?

[@flivverchannel]

@@mikekossor1980 I hope to find someone nearby who has the software, so I can do a more formal deep-dive using the ECCT. To show the nuance of its capabilities. Also, I'd like to try a top-rpm test with poorly timed coils vs perfectly timed coils. Again, need the whole package to do that...

[@deanberglund2332]

Really enjoyed your video. Please post the wiring diagram for your buzz box Ammeter. I want to build one also. You have posted a few pictures but not a schematic of the wiring of an ammeter. Thank you.

[@romjone4801]

Please send a your plans.

[@flivverchannel]

See the video description. Thanks for your interest