How Does it Work: Long Stroke Gas Piston

/ forgottenweapons
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/collections/forg...
The long stroke gas piston system was in its heyday about 50 years ago, and was popular in both rifles and machine guns. The principle is that the gas piston is fixed to the bolt carrier, and both cycle rearward for the full length of the cartridge upon firing. The system was used in such distinguished designs as the M1 Garand, Kalashnikov, Browning Automatic Rifle, and ZB/Bren light machine guns among others. By including the mass of the gas piston in the reciprocating parts, the long stroke system potentially carries more momentum when cycling, this improving extraction and feeding. This generally comes at the cost of increased perceived recoil, as the extra mass impacting the rear of the receiver at the end of travel is felt by the firer.
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
PO Box 87647
Tucson, AZ 85754

[@thecynic75]

If you’re looking for pure information, best channel on KZbin. No debating. Thanks Ian.

[@fugg3543]

C&Rsenal

[@themerrydamber]

Paul Harrell

[@Lazarus7000]

Too true! This is the kind of thing you used to watch History Channel for, now it's all pawnbrokers and seasons-long bullshit about possibly buried gold that should have been a two-hour special, a week's or month's special at most.

[@tristanholland6445]

Bloke on the Range is another peer to Ian as are some of the TFB guys that one Marine forget his name is very knowledgeable.

[@tristanholland6445]

@@Lazarus7000 I remember Tales of the Gun

[@Kbwtor19]

Ah. Just pure and wholesome gun education. No arguments or politicking. See how nice this is?

[@StanislavG.]

I strongly disagree. Also, Hillary Clinton.

[@camielvanhouten6920]

Always liked the longer strokes 👀

[@robertscott2210]

Camiel van Houten That's what she said.

[@muddyhotdog4103]

different strokes for different folks

[@-TAPnRACK-]

Yea I bet 😂

[@claudiojopiavilches5169]

Ian, I'm loving the technical videos mate. Keep them coming!

[@jimsackmanbusinesscoaching1344]

Hi Ian, As an engineer by training, I always love the complicated trade-offs that people make and the mechanical bits and systems involved. After listening to some of these operating system videos and then to the Hudson Firearms video, it makes me think we have reached a plateau/lull in firearms development. We spent about 100 years (depending on when you want to pick dates) implementing self-loading, metallic cartridge weapons. The major military users are working on designs that come from the aftermath of WWII. Yes, I know things are better now and nobody would put an M1 Garand into front line service anew. But think about the major military buyers. The G3, M16, AK47 and FAL have been improved but not really replaced right? So....What's next? Have we reached a limit in the technology? I think a video or two on that might be quite interesting.

[@Seseous]

Bullet tech and optics are what they said in a prior interview, if I remember correctly.

[@konstantin.v]

Apparently, you're new to this channel ^_^

[@jimsackmanbusinesscoaching1344]

@@konstantin.v I am not

[@jimsackmanbusinesscoaching1344]

@@Seseous Not really a new rifle eh?

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Next? The bulpup era. Next? We go back to Remington's Electric primer system over a mechanical pin.

[@seanhartigan2003]

what if this entire series was just ian finding a way to show off his collection

[@tristanholland6445]

It's not Ian isn't that kind of person. He simply being practical and mainly using guns he owns because he can then film this series at home and it's cheaper

[@tristanholland6445]

@@vladpiranha You don't know much about Ian then clearly. He is definitely a Franophile and has a nice collection of French firearms he also has various other firearms in his personal collection. Go watch the numerous videos of Ian discussing his own collection and tell us what you learned

[@ankoku37]

Genuinely appreciate that almost all of these "which is better?" questions end with "well it depends" and an inconclusive answer because I think so many people get caught up in the idea that there's some sort of Platonic ideal/be-all end-all with firearms (and with pretty much anything really) when reality is so complex and unpredictable that you can almost never point and one thing and say it's always better

[@kajetandziebaj6405]

These have been some of the most informative videos about gun mechanics.

[@DeFransWorld]

I have a 12 gauge JC Higgins Model 60 that actually functions on a long stroke design. Real fun to shoot.

[@MrMiguella]

It would be cool to see all of these operating principles videos all cut together in a long form video possibly with questions from previous videos being answered.

[@christkandosii3337]

Do one about every single operating system that exists. I really enjoy these videos like this as well as all the other ones.

[@RastaBananaJah]

I love these little informative videos on terminology. Very good for the community

[@jean-christophedancause5587]

This shorter video compared to what you usually do is very interesting and helpful. Well done! :D

[@TestAccount-sl2cd]

Ian could not be more of a professional in both knowledge and conveyance. Great video, great channel.

[@Lilzycho]

I didn't know I had these questions but they are answered now for sure. I'm watching the entire "gun mechanics explained" playlist now. Very nice and easy to understand videos.

[@ivyisle]

If Ian is Gun Jesus, Then TAKE ME TO CHURCH

[@steam212]

You always have the best videos. WELL DONE AGAIN

[@dimscrawl4910]

Some really great slow-motion footage lately. Love it.

[@KaigaiKitsune]

I know this is incredibly off-topic. But I would just like to thank you and the other channels I watch from the bottom of my heart. My partner of 5 years and I separated yesterday. I feel emotionally devastated that he's no longer there. Long story short, I took it for granted how relaxing and cathartic it is to watch you and others like you. While I recover and learn from my mistakes, I just felt like you ought to know that just by being yourself, you're helping others through life's hurdles. So thank you for that, and I hope to continue watching you well into the future.

[@michaelfodor6280]

Sorry to hear about your loss. Just remember that not all mistakes made are yours, and they're not really mistakes, but more like learning experiences. Also now would be a good time to get a gun... ...and go out to the range. Target shooting can be social and cathartic. Focusing on a good shot cycle will put everything else in the background. Best of luck. (Plus you can recycle your ex's stuff as targets too.)

[@walterlohrmann7248]

"Tell me something girl, is there something else you're searching for?"Good song, and totally off-topic reply too.

[@TodayLifeIsGoood]

It may not fill THAT hole in your heart, but I hope it will sooth the pain while you find a way to fill it again :)

[@jerryjohnsonii4181]

Awesome video Ian. I have a long gas piston in my 1970's Browning BAR 30-06. Thanks for the knowledge Sir

[@leary4]

I love these basic vids. That enfield was the first time I really saw a gas operating system working.

[@donnkelley6823]

I could watch that FG42 run all day.... The Farquhar Hill was pretty bitchin also.....

[@Gavreeli]

Thanks for this series. I'm new to shooting and really enjoy learning about the mechanics of all these firearms.

[@nicolaiby1846]

Really well explained Ian, thanks. God that was actually exceedingly well explained, an absolute joy to listen to despite the fact that I already know how long stroke gas piston operated firearms work!

[@drewbryk]

Very cool! Big fan, have only gone shooting 1x so a general info video like this is really helpful for understanding your other profiles.

[@Eulemunin]

I am using you videos to counter the mis information that gets into my boys head form other “content producers”. Thank you.

[@ryancrazy1]

0:39 wow, thats the coolest feed mechanism.... just a bolt action with a rigged up gas piston to cycle it thats crazy

[@MiuoTheTroll]

I like these videos even if I dont need to watch many of them. They are good in educating the newbies on how guns work and operate. good work!

[@mazkact]

I aint shootin dat M1915 Howell Automatic Rifle Enfield Conversion no sirree.

[@jayzenitram9621]

Agree. That looked sketchy as hell.

[@tankieflanker4119]

It looked pretty smart

[@Falconguygaming]

Long stroke piston- direct impingement on a stick!

[@bernhardschmid9222]

Interesting thought but I disagree. In a DI system your forces act between the mount of the gas tube in the reciever and your bolt carrier (and between the bolt and the Carrier in an At). In any piston system the forces act between the piston and the gas block in the barrel.

[@Falconguygaming]

@@bernhardschmid9222 that's why a short stroke piston isn't the same. Long stroke being connected has it so the gas pushes directly on the carrier, albeit much forward.

[@bernhardschmid9222]

@@Falconguygaming In that regard, yes. In the long stroke system the gas pushes directly onto the bolt Carrier piston assembly. But the pressure is still pushing the barrel and the boltcarrier away from each other not the reciever and boltcarrier/bolt and boltcarrier.

[@alexandruianu8432]

And the AR (internal piston) is DI in a hole. Really, long stroke, DI and internal piston should be grouped as one category - direct acting. And short stroke, gas tappet and buffered piston (Farquar Hill) should be grouped as indirect acting.

[@Falconguygaming]

@@alexandruianu8432 I actually really like that grouping. Gold star for you!

[@charleslindberg829]

A great video series! Keep them coming. 🖖

[@dandel351]

Cool video!! Thanks for the lesson Ian!

[@randomfamilyman4876]

Always so informative

[@cartercrisp6796]

Knowledge is power. Thanks for these videos.

[@eliack95]

I would love a video on suppressors! That's probably the most misunderstood firearm component amongst us fledgling firearms enthusiasts.

[@eliack95]

I ask this particularly after watching your new L115A3 video where the suppressor seemingly screws on ahead of the muzzle break, that combination doesn't compute in my head, haha.

[@kenhelmers2603]

Thanks Ian!

[@QuackSuperStar]

Thanks for the great videos!

[@mandosandradios]

These "How does it work" are my favorites.

[@coles201]

Thanks Ian.

[@dbmail545]

When I first stripped my Tavor SAR-21 I saw that it was the shortest long-stroke gas piston system in captivity.

[@Mamiya645]

Long Stroke Gas Piston was my other nickname in highschool

[@tristanholland6445]

It wasn't but you wish that it was lol

[@ajeje1996]

@@tristanholland6445 No it's true I was there

[@loupiscanis9449]

Thank you , Ian .

[@tesseractturtle6078]

Thanks for the knowledge

[@nicollascarramaschi5645]

Very good serie

[@TheFanatical1]

It says a lot about Ian that he uses the Howell as the example high speed rather than an M1 or an AK.

[@benjaminhenegar1376]

Keep em coming ian

[@yeungmankiu5539]

Great summary and examples 👍

[@KB4th]

Another helpful lecture from the Gun God Ian. Cheers mate, your vids are awesome.....

[@randywatson8347]

Love how engineers trying to get the best balance between fast reliable extraction, reduced recoil and servicelife of the parts.

[@Robban.D.Jonsson.]

Love these clips. Keep doing the "how does it work"

[@marianoarri5332]

Great video about the mechanics.

[@peace10000able]

That was awesome! I did not know that till now

[@A_Bunch_of_Onions]

Thank you I found this very informative.

[@steeltalon2356]

My favorite stroke.

[@peterebel]

For a newb like me, this is a wonderful source of information. Thanks, Ian.

[@Raptor747]

Thank you! I finally understand the difference.

[@F1ghteR41]

0:03 Given the number of AKs and PKs in circulation, I would argue otherwise.

[@lukaszpokoju]

2:42 Ian words of wisdom.

[@roguetorino]

Maybe now fewer people will miss-classify what sort of system a given firearm has. Thanks Ian!

[@darkally1235]

I'll echo other's sentiments on how much I enjoy your videos. Might I ask for a "How Does it Work" on striker vs hammer.

[@rako5865]

Nice MPi. A video comming?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

No, that's just a Century AK with East German furniture on it.

[@osorromatus8408]

that is a nice weapon

[@sheriff0017]

Only here could you find a Howell Automatic Rifle used to illustrate long-stroke gas operation.

[@marcamant7258]

Long or short strokes , you stroke at them. (hard to resist ; the Hotch-kiss was so inspiring @2:37 )

[@Neuttah]

Anyone else slightly reminded of those old-timey black&white technical videos?

[@bmedlin00]

i literally had time to do the 3 s's this morning and when i came back the commercials were still running

[@JohnDoe-fo7yi]

Quick suggestion : Adding classic examples of each element you're covering would help further our understanding. Some of us can recognize the weapons shown, but not all I'm sure. Cheers!

[@markgordon4368]

Concise.

[@Themichaelwesten]

That MPi-KM 😍

[@samuelberghuvud5527]

I Ian i live in sweden and i realy like your videos i find them both entertaining and informativ and i was wondering if you where going to make a video on the Swedish kpist i think it would be intresting

[@wastedangelematis]

Had a long stroke of pure bliss~~~~

[@-TAPnRACK-]

Gosh that FG42 is fkn beautiful!!!

[@filanfyretracker]

I can see why its liked on machine guns, Assured extraction and since they are commonly mounted to something the extra felt recoil is not as big of a deal.

[@MrRoboskippy]

The serial number on your AK is 047. That's kinda cool.

[@Chetanoo]

YAN THIS STROKE IS SO FCKIN HUGE :O

[@deanranged3762]

All the Kel Tec bullpups

[@Pbairsoftman]

Forgot to mention that the M249 and M240 + variants use this system.

[@tomenicus]

Dammit. Its Great video again. Unfortunately so few guys from Poland watches this. And Good fortune top, 'cause we're becoming experts nas test may go hang.

[@TK199999]

This is interesting and all. But I still prefer Ian's explanation on how low power rail and coil guns work verses high power rail and coil guns.

[@HashiriyaR32]

1:28 Something about the open/closed bolt operation of the FG42 based on fire mode has me puzzled. Consider the following scenario. Weapon in semi-auto, round chambered, bolt in battery. If one were to switch to full-auto, would the weapon fire that first shot while in closed-bolt, or would the user first have to lock the bolt to the rear before the weapon is in a fireable state?

[@AB-pp2zy]

It would fire the first round closed and then lock open when you release the trigger.

[@ChristianMcAngus]

Is the bolt cycled entirely by gas pressure in in the piston, or does residual pressure in the barrel also help cycle it?

[@raphaelhanna8345]

Could a long stroke piston driven rifle have controllable recoil if the gas was tuned correctly

[@visionaryfirearmsllc9999]

Anyone know what gun that is at 0:40? Have not seen that episode and that design looks fascinating.

[@hellmonja]

Gun Jesus enlightens us yet again. Praise be to Gun Jesus!...

[@k.w.1775]

Ian, what was the first weapon to use this type of gas system? Thanks

[@Odin029]

I have to admit that every time i hear long stroke I think of the movie School Daze

[@nicklewis6052]

So I’ve got what I believe to be a browning auto 5 sweet 16. It has a cutts compensator and a slide safety in front of the trigger that goes forward and backward rather than side to side. While I’ve seen other guns with the cutts compensator, I’ve never seen another one with the type of safety mine has. Could anyone tell me anything about this gun?

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

Thanks! But how would you classify an SLR/FN?

[@mw4222]

Ive been wondering... can a long stroke BCG be made to have the same weight as an equivalent short stroke BCG, be equally reliable, and make the gun lighter (since it has the same KCG weight, but no extra piston)?

[@raphaelhanna8345]

Personally I would say that in most cases the long stroke piston system is better than the short stroke piston system

[@meatusgrandthegrevious6046]

Can you show the Liberator pistol

[@throttleblipsntwistedgrips1992]

Is that a Zastava M70? Hard to tell, but the foregrip makes me think it is

[@chaossurvivaltroopers1610]

What is the name of the rifle you see at 0:40? Looks cool!

[@davidcolter]

The AR15 is a long stroke gas piston system. Change my mind.

[@DNchap1417]

Where are the M1 Garand, M1A and BM59? All of them are long stroke as the bolt and piston assemblies are linked together via an operating rpd and both travel in the same direction as one unit. Is it just me but long-stroke guns tend to have reciprocating charging handles?

[@electrochemicalpathep5549]

so what holds the assembly from moving back due to the exploding cartridge? Why does it come back with the delayed gas but not the initial shock? What moves out of the way?

[@marcamant7258]

Simple clear accurate. What else ?

[@macmurfy2jka]

Yep for a mounted machine gun, that makes allot of sense. Less parts to fail, likely less interfaces to get fouled or fail to operate due to heat distortion, and better positive extraction are very good characteristics for a weapon meant to reliably dispense withering suppressing fire. Recoil? Who cares! Its mounted!

[@lkjh00on89]

So, after the AK long stroke piston leaves the gas chamber, what ensures it remains on the same plane and reenters the gas chamber without issue? Has it ever happened where components get warped or bent and the piston gets out of alignment enough to not go back into that gas chamber?

[@rautavaara9194]

When everyone you know is simply issued a rifle with a long-stroke system, you sort of assume that's the natural order of things. I needed this video to realize short-stroke is more common elsewhere.

[@woodrowcall3158]

Rauta Vaara Where are you out of?

[@rautavaara9194]

@@woodrowcall3158 Finland. Because of conscription, about 75% of men my age served in the military. The RK-62 and RK-95 service weapons are AK variants (known in the US as Valmet), so long-stroke is default here.

[@woodrowcall3158]

Rauta Vaara Very nice rifles. How do people feel about the conscription in your country?

[@rautavaara9194]

@@woodrowcall3158 I think the sentiment is still mostly positive. Support has been slowly declining, but I don't think there is any real discussion on ending it or anything.