German Naval P04 Luger

www.Patreon.com/ForgottenWeapons
Most everyone is familiar with the Luger pistol - it is one of the most iconic handgun designs ever made. Folks who have a passing interest in the guns will probably know about both the standard Army model (the P08) and the long-barreled Artillery model (the lP08, with its shoulder stock and snail drum magazine accessories).
What a lot fewer people know about is the third major German military version of the Luger; the P04 Naval version. The Germany Navy was looking to replace its long-obsolete Reichsrevolvers at the same time the Army was, but while the Army was also dealing with the expense of adopting the new Mauser 98 rifles, the Navy needed far fewer pistols and had a budget on hand to buy them. They took the German Army and Swiss Army trials reports at face value and adopted the 1904 pattern Luger in 1904.
These pistols had 6 inch long barrels (compared to the 4 inches on Army models), rear sights adjustable for 100 or 200 meters, and they came with shoulder stocks for making the guns into convenient carbines. They were purchased in batches starting in 1904 (although the first deliveries took almost 2 years) and running through the end of World War I.

[@shdowhunt60]

You know, I think the 6 inch barrel actually makes this gun look really nice. It gives a good sense of overall balance.

[@keepermovin5906]

Rrolf I mean arguably it was a more civilized age

[@Name-ps9fx]

I was thinking the same thing....having owned a 1917 Luger with a 4” barrel, it felt a little “handle heavy”, like the balance was just a bit off. A 6” would probably feel more balanced, both physically and aesthetically.

[@deaddiver2383]

The carbine Luger is what you imagine

[@pouringblood]

"We may need some more guns for this... war thing." I laughed heartily

[@travis5125]

The way he said it made it seem as though it were a direct quote.

[@DeadMeat991]

@@travis5125 Yes, by Baldrick.

[@russbilzing5348]

A fairly ironic thing to say when the history of the Germanic tribe is considered.

[@scribejackhammar]

It's in surprisingly good condition for a 98 year old gun.

[@niklaschmid]

german engineering ;)

[@scribejackhammar]

Niklas Schmid point there. But I was referring to the finish.

[@niklaschmid]

Scribe Hammar it is a refreshed gun, but some unrefreshed are still in the same condition

[@wankertosseroath]

+Scribe “Jack” Hammar You'd think the wooden grips would have been replaced, I mean, wood rots.

[@marshallgibson89]

+wankertosseroath About five or six years ago I had the opportunity to shoot an P08 from 1916 on a little shooting club in Germany, this weapon was in an excellent condition. The finish, wood grips, rifling in the barrel (because I was a rookie I had to clean it, was fun) the magazine, it had matching serial numbers and everything looked factory new. It was also the first time I fired an actual firearm. And Ian I love your channel, lots of interesting things to learn and to see. Some of the guns you showed us can not be owned or seen in Germany. If I had a computer I would proudly help you with the German pronunciation. :) Keep up the good work and thanks for your channel.

[@phlodel]

To my eye, the most aesthetically pleasing Luger. I love Lugers, have owned several and currently own a mongrel, mismatched P 08. I intend to modify this gun with a 6" barrel (have one) and modern sights. A shooter's Luger. A fine example of Navy Luger like the one Ian is showing is too valuable to shoot much, if at all. I'd love to have one for my collection and maybe someday, I will.

[@phlodel]

+Aidan Templeton The action of the toggle is so quick I don't even notice it. It's combined with the normal muzzle rise under recoil. Not much different from the recoiling slide of most other semi auto pistol. I'm doing this because I want to.

[@sergeantbigmac]

+Aidan Templeton Simply put, No not at all.

[@sergeantbigmac]

+phlodel As long as you dont do that to a mint one! If its a mismatched and stuff like you say, id consider it. Just make sure it still looks classy! No tacticool ;). Replace the barrel, refinish it, improved sights. Ive always thought brass accents would look good on a Luger.... Maybe make some videos of what you do and post it on KZbin?

[@TheKing-nu4fk]

Enjoy life and shoot the gun. I have a couple rare guns and a few rifles that have never been shot. During the pandemic I got em all out cleaned/oiled and had fun with them. So much better than being safe queens waiting for me to die.

[@jerrylancaster256]

Can you post a video of the gun?

[@Rein54]

The Luger has to be one of my favorite looking pistols ever made.

[@MisterBones2910]

+alphaprawns There's a certain beauty in the utilitarian, yet ergonomic shape they have.

[@sergeantbigmac]

+Ghost Nappa I agree, pure class. It doesnt even seem like a military firearm.

[@Certio0]

+Rein54 Crazy well engineered, more to the standards of a clock and not a mass-produced gun.

[@sergeantbigmac]

Certio0 Exactly, theres something to be said about that level of craftsmanship on a production gun, let alone a mass produced military firearm.

[@keepermovin5906]

My only issue is the trigger guard but can’t change the classics

[@kennyvancleave2422]

I love your stories about the firearms as much if not more than looking at the firearms themselves.

[@Hrafn84]

Ian you have an excellent way of explaining the history of firearms, keep up the good work.

[@ike7309]

From someone who knows just the basic of guns your videos have opened my eyes to how many different types are out there. This is better then those tv show on gun learn way more from you!!

[@kenweiss7913]

This is new to me. Thank you so much for the overview, just what I needed. I have a chance to purchase one and didn't know about them and you gave me just what I needed to make a decision. Keeo up the good work.

[@colonelchimp]

just thought i would say i have watched a lot of your videos, and i enjoy the detailed information and historic elements you add to your descriptions, i am a sort of avid firearms enthusiast/historian and if i had more money a collector, so thanks for your videos, and your awesome knowledge has found an appreciative ear here!

[@TheKille22]

So I've been following htis channel and I learned how to appreciate the craftsmenship that went into constructing those guns...

[@joehealy1477]

What an elegant gun, it's so smooth and nice-looking.

[@cameronvolek3209]

You should do a video on the evolution of Lugers

[@AlphaYTang]

+Cameron Volek I third this.

[@centhron89]

+Cameron Volek i forth this.

[@gonzomanxx]

+Cameron Volek I fifth this

[@canceroushumor460]

Get ready for a forty part series...

[@ivanthehunter3530]

Cameron Volek i sixth this.

[@gtracer6629]

I really enjoy this series of videos. So very educational. Keeps me one step ahead of my self proclaimed gun expert friends. LOL I get calls from friends who declare that they've come across some rare gun and proceed to talk about it. Then I'm able to fill in details that they never knew. Just a little game I enjoy. Kinda keeps them honest, as they say.

[@MrGregory777]

that's a sexy pistol

[@keenanmcbreen7073]

Extremely attractive pistol!!!

[@jenshoffmann2784]

Great channel. Offers a lot of loving details about things that might be considered vain by some but feel like a lovingly detailed concept of 'History come alive" to me. Thank you.

[@m3rkwithamouth461]

I used to be obsessed with this style of gun. I'm going to buy one some day

[@bryanclay4024]

almost impossible to buy a good quality one for under a thousand.....

[@MauserKar98k]

It's worth noting that there actually was a dedicated force of Imperial German marines, the Seebatallione, of which there were three. They weren't stationed on ships so much as they were basically a more naval oriented version of Jaegers (light infantry.) The Seebatallione were engaged in uprisings in the African German colonies, were part of the defense force at Peking during the Boxer Rebellion, and were a signifigant presence in Flanders during WWI as the Marine-Korps-Flandern.

[@calimobilesus7187]

I trust you with this cuz your entire profile is based off a freaking Mauser 1930s rifle

[@Britishshooter]

We may need a few more guns because of this war thing! I love this guy, nobody researches the historical background to firearms better than he does.

[@joako2706]

Amazed at the amount of knowledge in this video . Obviously subscribed !!!!

[@RussHodes]

Lovely 1904 Navy style Luger. The Germany Navy contract actually delivered the 1906 style, which has a grip safety as well as the "M" stamp on the left side.

[@SuperMarshall2009]

Thanks again for another fine video. This time you bring my bucket list luger. I have a refinished Artillery that could use a mate. Refurbs are great if you appreciate the ability to shoot without ruining collector value and hold it frequently : ). FYI My 1917 Artillery Luger shoots reliably well even with inexpensive plinking priced ammo.

[@sergeantbigmac]

Man that looks like its in remarkably good shape! I only recently learned of the Navy variant and IMO I think it looks the best aesthetically and it fixes probably the only real negative of the P08, which is its mediocre sights. Ive loved Lugers since I was a kid fascinated with history. It got it in my head that i'd own one someday and ive never been able to shake it lol. Someday i'll own a P08, Navy Luger and Artillery. A real collection. Yes I realize thats like 7 grand right there... Dont crush my dreams lol...

[@aldi404]

I always enjoy it when you talk about German war history and weapons, and trying to pronounce german words, very entertaining. :)

[@plinkingtonwildlife6308]

Woher kommst du?

[@nodresiak]

The Luger is the best looking pistol ever ! This makes a Glock look like a 2" by 4". Having said all of that, I much prefer the grip angle of the 1911 for serious work. A 1911 makes me look like a good pistol shooter even though I am not that great.

[@BlitzFromBehind]

nodresiak The grip angle of the Luger is the best possible angle (according to historical reports) since it gives the perfect sight picture by just extending your arm versus i.eg. the 1911. you have to angle your wrist to correct for the more vertically angled grip so that your arm is not perfectly "straight".

[@McGovern1981]

Would love to own a luger! I've at least have shot one. The fit to your hand and watching the action work is really cool! It seems ahead of it's time.

[@MartinWillett]

It looks so purposeful. It wants to point and when it is pointing everyone knows it. The simple tapering barrel and front sight and the angle of the grip just give it an air of efficiency. Anybody pointing such a gun instantly looks like they know what they are doing. The phrase "it's not a threat it's a promise" leap to my mind.

[@rogerwilco2]

A cool and possibly related story is of the crew of the SMS Emden under command of Hellmutt von Mücke and their long and eventful trip home after their ship got destroyed.

[@josephalexander3884]

This is the Luger I’ve always wanted. I’ve seen several. I really like these.

[@QuantumCat76]

Somehow I find the longer (and sleaker) barrelled Lugers sexier ;-) Thanks again, Ian, for your video, next to looking at old guns and their mechanisms, I always enjoy the history lessons that come along.

[@nehrigen]

The US Navy still trained its sailors in shore patrols/raiding up into WW2, if you can ever get your hands on a WW2 copy of the Bluejackets manual it goes into some depth on that.

[@BrandonVanKeuren]

I've been enjoying your videos from the Rock Island Auction Company, I live in the Quad Cities, and I think one of my friends from church actually works for RIA. My friend travels around the country, getting firearms for RIA.

[@KB4QAA]

Thanks for covering navy guns!

[@Reflex928]

Great video! I've known I wanted a Luger since I first saw one.

[@Viper0hr]

Very cool and informative video as always!

[@MrDgwphotos]

The US Navy also made use of naval landing parties drawn from the ship's company. The landing party that landed at Veracruz in 1914 was partially drawn from the Atlantic fleet's battleships Utah and Florida.

[@grochomarx2002]

Any content featuring the Luger is always welcome.

[@CaptBanzai]

If you ask me, this is the most elegant, well balanced, ergonomic pistol ever made and I would very much like to have one.

[@mattfleig2621]

I love your videos . well and clear spoken

[@fevershorty]

what a cool piece of history. dang. gotta own a luger some day

[@coRnflEks]

Would be great to see a video about the improvements that were made from the Borchart to the Luger, as mentioned in the previous video.

[@RogueVigilante]

I really like the adjustable sights on this gun I bet the range is good too with that length of barrel crazy how its basically a simplified borchardt pistol but he was too stubborn to listen to peoples input and Luger got the recognition he deserves but seriously Bochardt had an amazing design very unique and it definitely get the handling right and the placement of the magazine release and safety I would have liked to see him redesign it but classic case of being the best isnt good enough cause even though his design was the best gun at the time once people adapted his design he was quickly outclassed. I would love if you could do a video about Louis Stange and the mg 39 he is one of my favorite designers ;')

[@cashlewis19]

I feel like DWM should have kept that type of sight in the P08 as well. Great video as always.

[@lstewartproductions]

Have one in our family from 1909 that my great grandfather traded a starving german soldier food for just after ww1 when he was a missionary. Shoots a tiny group at 25 yards. 😊

[@Manfred-cf9rn]

😮😢😱😭!!

[@igorbravumlijekusturanovic9126]

Excellent video! Respect from Montenegro. Thanks, Igor

[@jjkroll32]

The straw coloring on the small parts is beautiful with its slight patina of age

[@MaxiemumKarnage]

Interestingly I got a commercial for BF1 prior to this video

[@shaneupton1656]

gorgeous. very nice video

[@joakimlvli3491]

Love the rear sight!

[@MrBuddha322]

Great Video, as always! By the way - The way you pronounce "Pistole" (with the n at the end) is the plural of Pistole in german. If you leave that away, you got a really good pronounciation! Greetings from Bavaria!

[@rickhigson3881]

Very nice video,thank you!

[@PieterBreda]

That thing looks amazing. I doubt if it has been used a lot.

[@gabehook13]

That Luger is absolutely beautiful.

[@troy9477]

"Helmut, we are going to need mire guns for this war thing the Kaiser has going. Be a good man and go order some". "Ja, Johann, I agree. Ve vill need many more guns". Lol. Ian always has a good sense of humor. I knew the navy models were 6"; did not know about the sight. I imagine they went with the 6" because it was viewed more as a potential combat arm, and more likely to be used by enlisted men in the navy, than as an officer's symbol of rank, like the army. Thus the longer barrel and sight radius for better hit probability and more velocity. I'm sure the shoulder stock was a good idea too. Beautiful condition on this one. Nice find. Great video as always. Thank you

[@calehane]

thanks for yet another good and informing video, just as a side note: pistoleN is the plural and thus seemingöee correct to use when talking about several exempels of a gun yet in case of the p08 the p actualy is part of the declaratin and it stands for pistole (singular)

[@cordadorsalis]

i like to watch you technobabble about extractors and firepins but i love how you convay some historical background.5:45. best.

[@douglasfulmer5483]

I have always wondered, why do Borchardt and Luger pistols have that distinctive little extension in the trigger that goes to the opposite side of the trigger guard?

[@ApophiosDaProtogen]

Love the Luger, more than 100 years old, and at the time, 100 years ahead of itself

[@deaddiver2383]

This is the same gun Capt Nemo carried in the movie called The League of Extraordinary Gentleman

[@lordgarion514]

An underrated movie imo.

[@geoffdearth8575]

These always have that feel of precision.

[@brisnbetsinher5065]

thank you Ian

[@BrickZ87]

I literally *pfff'd* in laugh with the "we may need more guns for this war thing" lol... I love it!

[@matthewpalmer7184]

I would just note here Ian that there WERE German "Seebataliion" troops, however they were essentially Naval Infantry, not specifically amphibious units. They did however serve in various colonial uprisings, as well as at Tsingtao. There were also 2, later 3, divisions which served under Naval jurisdiction in Flanders against the Belgians, known as Marine-Korps-Flandern. Again, these were naval infantry, rather than the US idea of "marines."

[@FaclanS]

Love this channel Ian, and great history lesson on this one in particular. Always fun to learn about the different politics of different militaries and even just different branches of the same countries military. But I do have a question, in the last few videos you have mentioned the Swiss military as being very influential during the time period of the Luger and the C-93, I'm just curious as to why? Why did so many other countries look to the Swiss to see if something was good or not? Thanks to whoever has any insight on this and keep making great content! :)

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+CJ Hyde I suspect it because the Swiss had enough money (and a small military) to be able to afford cutting-edge firearms, so they did more testing than most.

[@FaclanS]

+Forgotten Weapons Wow, thanks for the very swift reply. But interesting that it was that simple. I thought it would have been more political than that. But thanks for the reply.

[@johneye3338]

Favorite handgun of all time.

[@leafboy3967]

I love the 6inch barrel, love the looks and its also legal in my country.

[@Sekushiwolf]

Ah yes the naval luger! I remember reading up about this bad boy in an issue of Guns & Ammo about surplus weapons many years ago.

[@richardcorliss9846]

That is actually a P14, one of the second batch wartime ordered pistols. The P04 hade a grip safety and a different shape to the toggle.

[@AIRFORCEFREAK1]

That is such a pretty gun.

[@k.w.churchill4397]

it was half way through 1913 production, that the P.08 Luger got its stock lug. I had an early 13 with no stock lug. I found it fit my hand better then the lugged model. The 4 inch barrel model, it is an FFL class3 weapon with stock attached. With the 6 in barrel of the navy model, and the Artillery model, it is fully legal to attach the shoulder stock. Silly law...but there it is.

[@davidchetakian919]

One other distinctive feature are the concentric spirals on the wooden end of the magazine. Only on Navy version.

[@scullystie4389]

that is a gorgeous example.

[@paulbeesley8283]

Back in the mid-eighties you could get an '08, for about £180. A friend got a naval luger for that price - a few months later, a similar one sold at auction for £1,450. I have no idea what it would be worth now

[@HammockerSam]

What a beautiful weapon

[@Atrahasis7]

Beautiful gun.

[@saxandphone6440]

I don't know what it is about these guns but I can't stop buying them... I think I may be addicted. I only planned on buying one as I was planning on building a diverse collection of weapons from many different time periods. Those plans were largely put on hold as I now own three 4 inch Lugers, (1 from DWM, one from Mauser and one Swiss) one Navy Luger and one Artillery Luger. I thought that once I had the three main variants I'd be happy, but every time I see a new variant for a relatively affordable price I want to jump on it. I am currently in the market for a 60's G3 which I plan on buying era appropriate telescopic sites for, but that project might be put on hold yet again because another nice Luger came up. :/

[@mrlbow]

Had to go back and watch this vid again after watching the Martz one. I do generally love Lugers, but my goodness there is just something especially elegant about this variation. Leave it to the Navy to keep things classy

[@prof.m.ottozeeejcdecs9998]

You are right. The most elegant handgun ever mass-produced! I love it.

[@fattywithafirearm]

I have a p.08 made in 1936. I would love a navy luger.

[@prof.m.ottozeeejcdecs9998]

Ian, thanks for your presentation! However, while living in the US, I bought an American Eagle Navy Luger in 1979 (I believe a batch of 20.000 were made as such). On my Navy Luger the inner part of the grip (underneath the trigger) was straight, not like the Army version. Could you clear this up! thanks.

[@Traderjoe]

Aesthetically Ive always thought the Luger to be a beautiful gun for its symmetry and design. I never felt that way about the Colt 1911, but I have started to appreciate it and now see them as equally elegant. I recently started wondering if the Luger ever had any issues with water vapor from the humidity of the body freezing on it in cold climates and if it was known to jam up because of it? Does anyone know?

[@schwkrls]

5:47 Ian is gold.

[@brandonbentley8532]

The German navy also had Mauser 98 that were finished in a grey green colour instead of blued finish, they are very rare now and the navy preferred smaller machine pistols and regular pistols. Good video though...

[@VonRammsteyn]

5:15 That's why listen to Ian is far much better than see a documental...

[@majormassenspektrometer]

Looks very well built for a gun that was made at the end of the war. I imagine because of the lack of bombing factories?

[@mako2534]

COD 1... memories! I love the Luger, but I prefer this color over the others.

[@jonathanhill7295]

Makoto don't you mean ww1 memories

[@Freeplayone]

this is a beauty

[@LPtheDESTROYER]

Worlds prettiest pistol in my opinion. Would love to own one....

[@georgegonzalez-rivas3787]

The German Captain in the most recent version of King Kong prominently uses a naval luger in several key scenes. I think it has better lines than the P08, and sights. But I've never seen that horizontal lanyard loop at the rear of the pistol... is that what it is or is it there to mate with a part of the shoulder stock?

[@Nobleone7777]

My dad brought one back from ww11. It's the navel model 6 inch barel. He took it of a wounded Grman officer in Belgam.

[@BigSwede7403]

Were those range markings actually in Yards? I thought the Germans used Metrics by then.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+BigSwede7403 Yes, I meant to say meters.

[@BigSwede7403]

*Hat off* Thanks for the clarification.

[@habernack2932]

+BigSwede7403 And they still use it ;)

[@calehane]

+Schnitzelschale tree cheers for the metric system...

[@NormanMatchem]

+Schnitzelschale It really is the better system of measurement once you learn the details. I didn't learn the nuances of Metric until I got to College. Didn't click in my head that 1000m in a kilometer and 1000g in a kilogram. There's also a kiloliter though not often used at all, and of course the kilobyte. kilo=x1000, centi=/100, milli=/1000, etc. There's also things like 1 kg of water is 1 liter, stuff like that. Rather amazed me at how much it all made sense. Much better than 16oz in a pound, and... how many yards in a mile? 1600? Wait, how many inches in a yard? 25? Bah, good luck converting that nonsense...

[@bartekt6690]

Hi Ian I like your videos very much. You are doing a good job with it but this time I think you have “forgotten” :D about quite important difference between P08 and P04. The original P04 had a grip safety as well as some other small differences which were canceled to unify production with P08 in 1909. Greetings Bartek

[@Mutant1988]

About the tangent sight - You say 100 and 200 yards. I'm fairly certain that's supposed to indicate meters. Edit - Nevermind, seems like someone else already pointed it out and you answered. Nice looking gun anyway.

[@twogenders]

I think I got wood just by looking at this Luger. So beautiful.

[@txfanman1]

Hay man you kind of blew off the first batch of Lugers issued to the early Machine companies in 1906! These were very unique! First batch had commercial markings and proofs, and a 4 digit serial number with no prefix or suffix. No chamber date and no stock ramp. No grip safety and no hold open on empty. Also you could not open chamber while on "safe" As a proud owner of one of these I see them as the forgotten stepchild!

[@MisterVista]

Ian would the finish on this gun be known as 'blued metal' or something else? Great video as always

[@mailenstein4805]

what a beauty

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

Wait, so is the safety engaged when I can *see* the text that says "secured", or when the lever is in the position where the text *is*? From the way he handles it, I assume the latter?

[@Jesses001]

I am not even going to watch the auction for this one. It will only depress me, ha.

[@sergeantbigmac]

+Jesse Sisolack Touche lol

[@christianderbyshire744]

I just thought a Luger was a Luger thanks for opening my eyes

[@zacharyrollick6169]

Now I understand the $3500 price tag on the one near me.

[@Pitchlock8251]

just curious, is the trigger, safety and take down lever brass?

[@LegalizePain]

+Pitch lock Search for "heat blueing", it's done like in fancy Swiss Watches :) , it's a thin coat of oxid, the colour depends on the temperature of the flame and the steel you are using (if possible).