Platypus or Prototype? Authenticating a Hybrid Entini

[@mickeyreder1705]

I appreciate when an expert can admit that they just don't know.

[@Isaac-ho8gh]

Exactly, I'm also okay with doing that. I'm not a gun expert, but I been researching a lot about them for a few years out of interest and I still know a lot about them despite being in a very anti-gun country.. However, I'll obviously not know everything about guns.

[@johnqpublic2718]

Usually a sign they're really an expert. Edit: didnt read Starfireaw11's comment first, sorry.

[@WhitzWolf92]

But if someone admits to not know something, then they obviously don't know anything! /SARCASM

[@richardpurves]

I suspect you've been watching Paul Harrell's videos as well ;)

[@johnqpublic2718]

@@richardpurves you suspect correctly!

[@wilsonlaidlaw]

It might be worth contacting Bradfield Collage in Berkshire in England to see if it might be mentioned in their armourer's records. The armoury record ledger for the CCF (the successor to the OTC at schools) at the school I went to, went back as far as January 1900 and there was probably another ledger in the archives for the period before that.

[@viking1236]

Depends, there is more than one Bradfield College with an Otc, one near Manchester for example

[@wilsonlaidlaw]

@@viking1236 Oddly Google only finds the one in Berkshire. Given it was founded as a private school in the mid 19th Century, it would have been highly likely to have had an active OTC around the beginning of WW1 (if the rifle is genuine). The only other Bradfield I can find, is a modern academy near Sheffield.

[@viking1236]

@@wilsonlaidlaw Apologies, just checked and I can't refind the reference I was quoting about nr Manchester, brain fade strikes again!

[@51WCDodge]

@@viking1236 The Berkshire one is the most likley to have an Officer's Traing Corp. Colleges- the riff raff- at the time would be more likley at that time to encourage there students to join the Territorial Army, or may have a Cadet unit.

[@LionofCaliban]

You know who and where better than I do, this would be my first port of call.

[@peterjamesvilla8565]

RE: Proof Marks. the Crown over NP stamp suggests the Birmingham Proof House in use between 1904 & 1925. the two on the underside of the barrel appear to be inspection stamps placed there by the examiner/tester.

[@51WCDodge]

The one on the right looks like a BPH Provisonal mark, which would fit from Black Powder to Nitro.

[@BadlanderOutsider]

1904 would be the barrel's first manufacturing, while the second would likely mark when the rifle was later sold post modification as you need to proof a barrel in the UK after you've done any work to it; and fixing it to a new action would certainly count in the time period. So that supports the suggestion that it was bodged together out of spare parts some time between 1904 and 1925, and then sold off or surplussed. Whether this was by an OTC or a gunsmith or a hobbyist is hard to say. The proofs could also be faked but it's hard to think of someone who would go through the effort of looking up and manufacturing their own proof stamps in order to sell this as real when it's not really that valuable of a rifle. So it could be a joke as Ian said.

[@whatnowstinky]

please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "nitro proved" stamp a commercial marking not military.

[@ZenAlphaFire]

Its a "Frankenstein" weapon... The proof marks would mean that if real: it was commissioned as a combat/training tool. Ive heard stories that a few 100 were used as a rush job in battle and off battle to compensate for lack of supplies and ready arms available.

[@1949peterb]

Cpt bungholio Teepee .

[@rogueriderhood1862]

On further investigation, I have been informed that the rifle was made for the Volunteer Training Corps during the First World War. The VTC was a home defence militia (an early form of Dad's Army!) and the rifles were probably sold off after the war, presumably to OTC's amongst others. Apparently Major E G B Reynolds mentioned the conversion in his book on the Lee Enfield Rifle, and his Profile Publications booklet which has a picture of one. My source also says that the sight looks like the Lee Enfield experimental type from 1901 I wonder how many of these are still existing and where the others are.

[@TheFridge]

The platypus moniker comes from the Brits first reaction to a stuffed platypus that was sent back from Australia. They thought it was a fake animal, made from stitching a duck bill onto a rat, or some similar animal.

[@worldtraveler930]

I prefer the label of "Frankenrife"

[@psychronic8327]

@@worldtraveler930 let me introduce you to a martini pistol with a bayonet lug I call it the "CHAD"

[@TheWolfsnack]

@@psychronic8327 ...when on a sling would that become a "hanging chad"???

[@psychronic8327]

@@TheWolfsnack hmmm maybe a "hung Chad" 😂🤣

[@RichWhiteUM]

@@TheWolfsnack That would depend on if it were hanging or not. If leaned against a wall, it may only be a well slung Chad.

[@PJHamann1]

Ian - your explanation of the nature of origin of many of these "fakes" is right on. They aren't "fakes" as much as they are one-off "art" pieces made lovingly by knowledgeable and imaginative collectors.

[@willtipton100]

This comment made me smile

[@Taolan8472]

I would wonder how many "fakes" on the makret were at one point made by an apprentice or journeyman gunsmtih as a form of advancement exam.

[@blancsteve4819]

"Make me a 303 with a Martini action...hold the sights. I have my own".....

[@BillB23]

Shaken, not stirred.

[@psychronic8327]

@@BillB23 do you want any proof marks with your martini ?

[@danliberty734]

Bill Brockmann thought the same thing. 🤣

[@mindbreak666]

considering the type of orders i had in my time as a techie, and the ones i get now as a welder... it wouldn't surprise me one bit

[@iankelly5641]

"Hold my beer"

[@MichaelJenkins910]

I do like the term "fantasy rifle" rather than fake. To my mind it's not a fake until someone knowingly attempts to misrepresent it as authentic. Regardless: if it's in shootable condition that would be one hell of a range toy!

[@Archangelm127]

Superbly split hairs, my friend. I approve. :)

[@ainzooalgownoverlord8913]

This rifle can kill I used to have on it was a gift from my grandpa I used it for hunting and creek rats shooting when I saw them. It got stolen

[@adrianfirewalker4183]

If you build a "fantasy" or "replica" gun (or sword, or chair), MARK IT!! It can be done in an inconspicuous location (ie on the barrel under the forearm) You may have the purest intentions, but later owners may be unscrupulous, or may simply not know the truth

[@arikwolf3777]

To me, *fantasy* means prop gun used in a movie, especially in science fiction. This gun looks like it could shoot and kill. That makes it a *real* gun. The question is: Is it *authentic* representative gun of the times or *not.*

[@jamesslick4790]

Yes! A "fake" is intended to fool someone to believe something is "real" and thus intending fraud. "Fantasy", or "Custom" would be something made for the sake of making it WITHOUT nefarious intent.

[@ljc7738]

Just mix two famous weapons and wait 100 years, then see armorers having an existeltial crisis

[@thesturm8686]

100 years from now and those armores will go bonkers over those ak-ar hybrid we have today

[@Morbacounet]

@@ReptilianLepton EMP's would erase all that information. All we need is a nuclear war.

[@mordecaieagle4240]

@@Morbacounet And then our children could use those ar-47s and all after-market part glocks to fight supermutants. And of course listening some sweet tunes. "I don't want to set the world on fire..."

[@Morbacounet]

@@mordecaieagle4240 It does makes sense when you think about it : tapes would be erased and electronic devices like CD players would fail. Vinyls can be used with electro mechanic devices that would survive.

[@NikoMoraKamu]

im crafting some ar 47's and ak 15 's for the future

[@brooksbrown580]

This is a Training Rifle, The British made about 100 of these, , Its a Functioning .303 they used them for Sight Picture, and Aiming Point, and Estimating Ranges , men who were Training to be snipers , Sharpshooters, and OTC Training, they fired these on Special Ranges for Snipers, Its 100% Genuine and worth quite a bit of money, I bought a house in the 1990s in Wyoming the lady I bought it from said its as is and everything on the property goes with it, in a storage area in the Cellar there were 2 wood type stand up cabinets, I broke the lock, and inside were 8 British Martini Enfield Rifles all wrapped up in Armory Thick Armory Paper, still in Protective Anti Rust Grease, and they all had the Spike Bayonets tied on to each rifle with the original leather scabbards I about fainted,,I still have all eight of them all nice and cleaned up in my Gun room, Ive fired a few of them.

[@peterwilliams2265]

Are your rifles similar to the one in the video?

[@charlesd5732]

In both Australia and Britain in the army cadets in private schools it was not uncommon for the boys to be taught rifle drill with all sorts of unusual guns. Typicaly when the army got new guns the cadets got the old ones. Sometimes when parts became scarce new rifles were made from parts of meany old ones resulting in “frankenrifles”

[@DefunctYompelvert]

This would make sense as the rifle makes use of 2 obsolete rifles the martini Enfield and no 1 mk1 SMLE. I know in New Zealand the mk1 SMLEs were given to cadets before WW1 to supplement the old carbines they had

[@RichWhiteUM]

When I was in JROTC here in the States in the late '80s to early '90s, we were using M1903 Springfields for our parade rifles and on the drill team we had 1903s with polymer stocks and lead filled barrels to improve balance.

[@51WCDodge]

Old Martini actions rebarreled to .22 were a mainstay of British Gun club training rifles right up to the 1980's. I learnt on one in the 1960's.

[@51WCDodge]

@@slamblamboozled1245 The one I learnt on had a large VR on the side. Bit of a give away? :-) It is a very tough reliable action.

[@charlesd5732]

Superdude70 there is such a thing as a mk1 smle I own one, and no I am not confused with the magazine leeenfeild mk1 (long Lee or “Long Tom”) if you from Australia as I own one of them as well

[@rickc2102]

Briton: It looks crudely stitched together from random spare parts, just like a platypus. Platypus: I'm right here, you know, and am completely, wholly integral. Briton: Just like a platypus!

[@joshhasadeathwish]

As someone further down has pointed out, it says Bradfield, not Bradford. Bradfield College is a elite private school in the south of england and would definitely have an OTC. Especially when you think back to this time when officers were upper class and someone from a non-private school background becoming an officer would be rarer than it is today.

[@robertdougherty349]

James Bondo: "I'd like a Martini. Shaken, stirred, and cobbled together from other drinks...."

[@anthonyhayes1267]

That begs the question: What two cocktails mixed together would make a decent drink?

[@robertcolbourne386]

Ian, sir, i actually enjoy this type of "I'm not sure" video because even if it is fake or fantasy it is still part of firearms history, assuming the firearm functions or did function. You have had homemade firearms in your videos in the past and to me this would be in the same category. If it is real great, if not it is still fascinating to see the ingenuity of Gunsmiths . Love your videos !

[@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts]

I remember it was over 10 years ago Coefield made one in an isse of shotgun news. He had found an original that was expensive and the barrel was shot out he wanted a shooter so he bought a beat up martini found an enfield barrel and proceeded to assemble one of these I miss his smithing articles that guy was an artist

[@adrianfirewalker4183]

455eley I remember that!

[@charlesdelair61]

I just looked up that article. The most interesting thing is that the barrel threads are the same on both actions. Very cool. And no, this one is not the one Coffield did!

[@BillHalliwell]

An extremely interesting gun. During my research into the career of a senior WW2 Australian army general, I discovered that his very first job in a military context was teaching school cadets, around 1903 in marksmanship. He later went on to join the regular army before WW1 and was posted to the national cadet administrative cadre. Before being sent to British Staff College then taking up a job in intelligence during WW1. The guns his young students used in their marksmanship competitions were said to be 'Martini Enfields'. It is interesting to note that a viewer, below, has identified the sight as coming from

[@kranzonguam]

Thanks for this! Showing the step by step thinking that goes into proving a piece is interesting, even without coming to a definite conclusion!

[@johnnewman9436]

I really enjoyed this installment. Glad you decided to make a video of this obscure rifle. Thanks Ian.

[@Tiger351]

"A noted Arisaka collector said it's an elaborate I built 30 years ago as a joke on another collector" he wouldn't have the same surname by any chance would he?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Haha - no. My father was not involved.

[@sethmoyer]

@@slamblamboozled1245 Just like that river twisting through the dusty land?

[@phenethylamine91]

This rifle is obviously a paid actor

[@AlbDavidT505]

A tinfoil hat wearing, conspiracy theory, crisis rifle ?!?

[@Archangelm127]

@lzydwg You win the Internet for today. Congratulations!

[@robertkubrick3738]

CNN?

[@WhatIsSanity]

@konig spooky Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz .....

[@LionofCaliban]

As for this in two parts. First part is on the name, platypus. Basically, when Australia was first colonised samples of the wildlife were sent back to England. People thought that the platypus was someone having a joke on them, they had a beaver's body, duck's bill sown together. On some level, it's not that different to that rifle, it's deliberately put together as a joke for and among experts. Nineteenth century trolling, said simply. In terms of verifying the rifle, I think it's an authentic piece. The marking of the college and the tag does seem to be very good evidence towards that fact. Now I appreciate this is going to be near impossible to verify it as a specific piece, I think there's verification possible. If the college has any sort of documentary, pictures, we should be able to identify similar rifles. If there's similar rifles or a specific mention of a rifle, 205, would be a place to start. I'm also wondering if they had any pictures relating to marksmanship awards, if so, that's another place we can look for pictures that may contain a similar rifle. If this truly was a training rifle and a training rifle in any sort of major use, I have to argue there would be some pictures of it, in the records, somewhere.

[@AsbestosMuffins]

time period is going to be a hard one to pin down, its gonna be any one of several years during ww1 when the officer programs were flooded with recruits anyways so records are gonna be fuzzy. really this is like antique furniture, unless you can absolutely prove with paperwork its always going to be up to the veracity of the experts to claim authenticity

[@mysss29]

@@AsbestosMuffins "it's always going to be up to whether the experts are right" ...uh...what?

[@LionofCaliban]

@@AsbestosMuffins I'm not sure what you're getting at. Never said it was going to be easy, only places to possibly start. The question is more did records survive to the modern day and do those records either relate specifically to that rifle or a rifle like it. Considering I don't live over there, I have no idea.

[@danieladam1636]

As usual, blame all Limey mistakes on the Ausies...........................LOL

[@SomethingEls]

I'm glad you did this video because whatever the origin of this rifle is it's still taking a place in gun making and collecting, which your channel is about. I hope it'll go into the archives for this reason as well.

[@RyTrapp0]

Yup, I'm all for covering these as they're come across, as long as they're either an exceptional level of execution, such as this one, or feature some historical or otherwise interesting details of value that make a story worth telling; we don't need ol' Bubba's failed pile of garbo that was never going to work, obviously(not that I think that would happen of course, but, point being, gotta draw the line somewhere)

[@Ulquiorra4163]

Kinda wish there was a blooper with Karl just walking on screen, mid-explanation, and just somewhat shouting in a confused voice "What is that?!" while Ian tries to calm him down. Otherwise, loved this oddball gun.

[@geoffreywmason4769]

that is the most snowflake comment ive ever heard

[@Sillybutts]

That would've been a cherry on top.

[@commandercody2980]

@@geoffreywmason4769 how?

[@CodeyMcewen]

it must be heartbreaking, telling a collector they own a platypus....

[@Kumimono]

What do they even eat? Bills must be humongous. Vet bills, and on the animal. Still, I'd almost say something like this is more interesting, and certainly rare.

[@CanalTremocos]

@@Kumimono And they are venomous so you know each time you hold it you may die.

[@Kumimono]

@@CanalTremocos Only the females, IIRC?

[@dndboy13]

'can you tell me what type of rifle this is, ive been racking my brains trying to look it up" "thats is an animal"

[@johnstacy7902]

depends on how much $$$$ you spent? If the gun shoots well and you got it cheep so what? go shoot it....

[@badpossum440]

I have seen that sight before, some where, is it Swedish or Swiss. Belgian also made British Martini -Enfield for the civilian markets.

[@mikofthewat]

I was thinking it was off a Mauser. Swedish or Belgian would sort of make sense, but alas I have neither in my collection to compare to

[@badpossum440]

@@mikofthewat perhaps something the Boers were using.

[@dunxy]

Not Swedish Mauser sight, i have a couple of Swede's myself, nothing like that and IIRC the release button is on the other side.Not a Martini Enfield sight either, ive also got one of those! Its got a very weak fragile looking rear sight with from memory just friction setting elevation, no kind of detent system.

[@H2ORaccoon]

And yet, this rifle still arouses me

[@dunxy]

This is a problem why?

[@diktatoralexander88]

I'd buy this rifle if it was $400 . I have a sporterized N04 MK1 I got for $150 a while back, but I'm thinking about selling it and getting a sig p239 instead.

[@stephencrowther524]

Water Raccoon I say ! Steady on old boy ! 😂✌️

[@michaelmccomas402]

These guns are the topic of many debates in the British Militaria Forum. The British used the same thread for barrels from the Snider-Enfield through the No. 4 Mk 1, so you have 90 years worth of rifles where the barrels and receivers can interchange. It leads to things like the SMLEtini (some contend that the term “Platypus” is only applicable if the barrel is made by Lithgow Small Arms Factory.) It is a way to make a working arm out of two otherwise unserviceable rifles-a SMLE that fails a headspace test can donate the barrel to an obsolete Martini action.

[@Equiluxe1]

That looks very much like the first rifle I ever shot. Back in 1962/63 when I was at school I joined a shooting club that was run by the local army barracks, they had rifle that looked like enfields but had a martini breach but were firing .22 long as to whether they were tubed I have no idea,it's a long time ago and i was twelve at the time,we were not allowed to dismantle the rifles or even look at them that hard . Just told to lie down the rifle was put into our hands and we were shown how to hold, aim and load and fire that was all we were allowed, 12 rounds each once a fortnight so soon got bored and left and got a 410.

[@petesheppard1709]

Whatever the actual provenance of the rifle, this is one of your most enjoyable videos. Please show more mystery guns!

[@meansartin]

Maybe the "authenticity" is the friends we made along the way.

[@KenworthW900HG]

Haha, nice

[@myparceltape1169]

You are very right. Stripped down, what are we without our friends?

[@chlebowg]

I could see finding this here in Afghanistan today. Not Khyber pass as the sights are machined and not hand made.

[@peterwilliams2265]

I have a rifle very much like the one in the video, it’s marked MGC OTC on the butt stock, however it does have a rear sight protector, the sight looks like a No1 Mk 3 . I believe it’s a 5 twist barrel, the bore is in very good shape. The video finally gave some explanation as to what it is. I’m working to get it to a point where it’s a shooter. Thanks for your help, much appreciated.

[@able-fox]

Well, without getting too far into existentialism , it definitely is real. It only becomes "fake" when it is being misrepresented. Take the Jungle carbine for example. They are pretty neat little guns with an interesting, factual history. It is only a "fake" when someone tries to, with full knowledge of its actual history, pass it off as a configuration used in the war. This "Entini" is super cool and I am very glad to have been able to get a look at it and would love to see more things like this. You are always very careful with your words and so long as you do not declare conjecture as fact the internet won't bully you too badly. It is fine to say "I don't know exactly what this is but it sure looks neat. Here is what I think about it." Cheers Ian and keep up the AMAZING work.

[@gnarshread]

So weird I love it! The things the British come up with in their garden shed. McLaren, Cosworth, Accuracy International, lotus and this.

[@pegzounet]

Looks like british armorers get drunk same as everybody else ^^

[@rogerramiussergeialexander5541]

The thought of someone getting drunk and then deciding to tinker with something while in an armory.... 😓 Especially if they blacked out and forgot what they did... Nobody would know.

[@CARAMELH0H0B0Y]

Well, they are British armorers. Of course they'll get hammered like they rest.

[@bitterdrinker]

If you work with the SA80 you need to be drunk. 😊

[@G-Mastah-Fash]

@@CARAMELH0H0B0Y Probably more. I think Russians, Germans, the British and the Irish are the worst in that regard. I've heard stories of broke Bundeswehr cadets that drank aftershave with coke just to get fucked up. They called it Pitralon Cola.

[@indycharlie]

@@G-Mastah-Fash hmmm...........

[@chrisstephens6673]

Will you do an update if you find out more, say in the final price video.

[@dfitch811]

Ian, that sight looks like it came from a Greek Mannlicher.

[@TheArklyte]

Good choice of approach. It is also one that some museums take - if you don't have a real one, order a reproduction made and then use it as a visualisation to tell about real thing. That is done a LOT with medieval armors for example.

[@BullittGT40]

I'm glad you did this video, it's cool seeing walk through your thought process on things like this. I would suggest more videos on the oddities that pop on you from time to time.

[@USSEnterpriseA1701]

Reminds me of an interesting Martini hybrid rifle I saw at a local gun shop once. It was similar to this, but used a Mosin 91/30 barrel instead, thereby converting it to the cheap and readily available 7.62x54r. It was obviously something somebody had cobbled together to use an old Martini action they had lying around, but it was still kind of neat nonetheless. Needed some stock work done to take the wobble out of the forend, but was otherwise reasonably well assembled. There were still too many unknowns about the state of the action and fitness of the conversion of it for me to jump on it, but it was a very interesting idea for sure.

[@51WCDodge]

Martni actions are so strong , and were so cheap, a lot of conversions were done, including to shotgun barrels, a lot are still shooting a couple of hundred years later.

[@USSEnterpriseA1701]

@@51WCDodge I have no doubt of that, on the one I saw it was more a question of was the conversion done correctly with properly set headspace or not. If I knew the answer for sure, I'd have jumped on it in a heartbeat, because it had a bargain of a price. Probably should have anyways, but didn't feel like taking on another major project rifle at the time.

[@RyTrapp0]

@@USSEnterpriseA1701 I'm not sure I really know what a 'bargain of a price' on such a thing would be, LOL. The ballpark of the value of the original firearms? Little more than the cost of gas money for the show? "something something, eye of the beholder, something something" I guess

[@USSEnterpriseA1701]

@@RyTrapp0 Less than a Mosin cost at the time. It was back when Mosins were pushing $150-200. Not bad even for a mix-master hybrid.

[@51WCDodge]

@@USSEnterpriseA1701 Oh if the bits are original British Military they were well built. Though quality, especially for export guns was the reason British Proof laws were introduced and are stringent. Bad policy to kill your customers. Any major alteration requires re proof. Ex British Military kit of that time should have the broad Arrow an inverted V on them. If released for disposal there should be a second V on the base forming an X

[@mysss29]

Very cool either way! And that anecdote about the Arisaka is very cool to hear, too, since you didn't admit you'd thought it was genuine in that video.

[@yoooopery]

It's now the Martin SMILE

[@apollorf429]

The SMILing martini

[@SPRKH69]

The Smelly Martin

[@lukejolley8354]

Respect. This is awesome, I love detective work! The true experts like to share the ambiguous examples because they’re INTERESTING!!!

[@tomaszbartkow3552]

This is what I have loved this channel since I first finded. Expert admit is not sure. I admire honesty. Still so detailed description. Always looking for more

[@BillB23]

I loved the video, Ian, but you forgot to include the promised links in the description. (My dad used to tell me that if you don't make any mistakes you're not doing anything. You're obviously busy. (big grin))

[@TheVillainInGlasses]

They're in the end cards. Not in the actual description though lol

[@lewisbrand]

Hi Ian, it's a drill training rifle from Bradfield college near Sheffield England used during the First World war. The stock is stamped Bradfield College O T C , Officer Training Corps.

[@jusportel]

Not so sure about that, the converted forearm is from the 1930’s or so. After they changed the shape to a straight taper, and after the volley sights were discontinued. But before they switched to beech during WW2. I wouldn’t think those forearms would be available as surplus until after WW2.

[@puppetguy8726]

Some claim that a few martini-enfields were used by the Home Guard in 1940. While desperately scrambling for rifles in 1940 couldn't maybe martini-enfields have been given spare lee-enfield stocks as a repair measure?

[@flavortown3781]

I've heard stuff like this too

[@51WCDodge]

There was an Amrican Campaign called Send a Gun to a Britsh Home. The last Dad's Army film- bloody awful film - but a firearms nerds dream. They had a lot of American oddities supplied, as happned.

[@stevegifford5201]

That's not a martini-Enfield barrel, the m-e's have a more martini-henry esque shape with an E stamped upon the knoxform

[@dunxy]

@@stevegifford5201 Yeah, it doesn't look like a ME barrel,been a while since i pulled mine out of the safe but IIRC it also has a longer barrel than a SMLE.I could google it but that's no fun!

[@andrew051968]

In Australia they issues farmers up north with martini cadet 310’s with copper jacketed billets just in case japan attacked.

[@jarink1]

Seems like something you'd see made in the Khyber Pass region of Afghanistan.

[@vchalmel]

Throw on that bad boy an AK handguard and magazine somehow and you would got a real Khyber dream.

[@alexleake3491]

@@vchalmel I would ask how you get an AK magazine on a martini action but knowing the sorta bizarre stuff that gets made there Im entirely convinced someone would make it work

[@KAKADOUJACK]

That rear sight looks Dutch to me. It has a slightly different curve than the 6.5 Mannlichers, but it's machined and marked almost identically.

[@erundain4567]

This has to be the most British rifle ever

[@frasermclachlan8588]

One feels in order to fire this rifle, it must be made mandatory to have mutton chops, wear a smoking jacket, puff a pipe in the comfort of a armchair whilst sipping on a tumbler of whiskey. And that's just first entrance level

[@Mrhalligan39]

room-ten-oh-nine ! Don’t be daft, only a prole from Dorset would ever wear a pith helmet with a smoking jacket. You’d be laughed right out of the club!

[@vchalmel]

The safety mechanisms somehow prevent firing between 5pm and 6:30pm unless you pour tea inside, and won't shoot on weekends.

[@richarddixon7276]

Sat eating kedgeree whilst doing the Time's crossword and listening to the cricket on the Wireless receiver . God save the King !

[@tomheptinstall]

Honestly, these things are made in the UK as jokes. I know a gunsmith who made a Snider/Martini mix and stamped it with Austro-Hungarian Eagle marks to confuse a know it all at his local gun club. Still very interesting though!

[@BillB23]

From what Ian said, that would make it a platypus. I'd still like to see what kind of group I could get with it, real or practical joke.

[@51WCDodge]

If this were made in UK the maker would be in a lot of Deep Cack if it were not submitted for re proof. A black powder action on a nitro barrel and chamber.

[@tomheptinstall]

@@51WCDodge Many thousands of Martinis had been re-barrelled to .303 (Enfield and Metford) and proofed to use smokeless powder - So no deep cack!

[@51WCDodge]

@@tomheptinstall Are if not re proofed.

[@51WCDodge]

@@basiltozer9078 Sounds like a certain leader from acros sthe pond. Though as a good introduction to the British Empire, I would suggest the Flashman series by George McDonald Fraser.

[@mmercier0921]

Ian finds the coolest guns on earth, explains the history and shows the gun. Sometimes he even takes them apart.

[@Djmasterflex94]

Hey I really like all your videos and I appreciate all the commentary and all the facts and unique weapons that you come a crossed and I'd love to see plenty in the future. I hope you continue to do these videos for a long time you have expanded my knowledge and firearms and I love it thank you

[@andrewince8824]

A third hypothesis: A prototype rear-echelon rifle. During the war they may have wacked this together to test. It would free up the modern SMLEs for the frontline while artillery crews etc would have a cheap rifle similar enough to an SMLE yet utilising the plethora or obsolete Martini rifles.

[@beaker126]

I think it's legit. For a lot of reasons, but mainly, not just because that lead seal is there, but because the aging on it looks 100% right, like it was stuck into a collection a really long time ago. One thing I'm curious about, is, if legit, was this one, or the others like it, ever taken out of storage and issued to the Home Guard in WWII.

[@ChamplainValleyRailSnapshots]

What a fascinating video. Great way to tackle what could be a tricky subject.

[@62jape]

I follow this channel to see cool/weird old guns. As long as you describe them in the title to the best of your ability I think it’s good.

[@greenhornet7877]

the sight is a greek mannlicher schoenauer 1903

[@matthayward7889]

Interesting rifle, and even more interesting to hear Ian’s thought process. I’d like it to be real, but could so easily be a ‘what if’ made by a collector

[@clownworld4655]

If it looks like a martini, shoots like a martini, and loads like a martini, then it’s probably a martini

[@paulpelletier8470]

the barrel threads for a Martini and the EARLIER SMLE MK1 are the same threads per inch and form . Later SMLE MK4 barrels are still same pitch but different form . A very easy job to fit the two together !

[@HughesEnterprises]

And here I was thinking the only Smelly Martini’s were the ones from IMA covered in yak fat.

[@Sseltraeh89]

I just love the Smelly's jawline, the bayonet knob is just too cool to not pun on any other rifle.

[@snafvs]

This gun will be in a videogame at some point

[@il6993]

Bf1: hippity hoppity you are now my property

[@rogerramiussergeialexander5541]

I am sure it already is, in some form.

[@psychronic8327]

@Federal Republic of Aurelia time to do some modding 😂🤣🤣

[@tameston5467]

Would love to see it in h3 vr

[@dunxy]

Used by a part cyborg trans gender with prosthetic's,blue face paint and a cricket bat most likely.

[@basilpunton5702]

The markings on the stock could be the original martini rifle before the modification.

[@markfergerson2145]

If I owned it I'd be strongly tempted to take the paint off and acid-etch or magnaflux the metal to see if there were markings that were ground or sanded off. It would also be nice to know someone with access to a GCMS to analyze and date the paint.

[@Furri1bia]

Thus Gun Jesus warneth the faithful against the false prophets, as even if they work miracles, trust them not.

[@jayb9171]

My experience of rifles similar to this were that they were used by public schools during the First, and, to a lesser extent, the Second World War for rifle drill training and marksmanship because of the shortage of the current service rifle. This rifle appears to be identical to the obselete ones kept in stock at the public school I attented in the late 60s and early 70s, where we were trained using SMLEs and No 4's. VI

[@birisuandrei1551]

Oh nice! The "Smile Martini" is my favourite gun and Cocktail!

[@Scott079]

Original or fake long as you don’t pay too much for it, its cool

[@viking1236]

Have you seen the estimate 2500 Us $!

[@myparceltape1169]

@@viking1236 Better get one direct from Afghanistan, if you can...

[@harryfaber]

As a cadet, we trained using 'BSA-Martinis', which were a 22lr rifle which had a heavy .22 barrel on a Martini falling block action. We had a pair of them, and they were both different to each other. I don't know where they came from, we just used them! I have no idea as to their age, they were 'old' when I first used them in 1974.

[@nindger4270]

Just to increase the chance of the information being seen: the rear sight appears to be from a Mannlicher-Schönauer 1903. All credit for spotting it goes to user Thompson13.

[@oldgreggscreamybaileys6618]

Never shot a gun in my life but love this guys channel. Always interesting history lessons.

[@dumptrump3788]

Gun Jesus "It's a conundrum." Me: "I WANT IT!"

[@beyondbackwater4933]

Ian with a short neat haircut and small trimmed moustache without goatee would look super sharp.

[@danirizary6926]

I liked this video, the rifle is interesting to me as either a platypus or a prototype. Thank you for the awesome content

[@oftenwrong.]

Funny stuff. The foremost gun authority on KZbin is stumped. I love! The honest it makes this video 100% gold Way to go gun jesus

[@jusportel]

Something put together using obsolete parts, likely post WW2, for cadet use. The forearm is a late model with the straight taper and no inletting for volley sight, that style wasn’t introduced until shortly before WW2, and likely wouldn’t have been available for converting until after the war.

[@zebradun7407]

I'd say Prototype, to enable Militia, reserve or rear area troops to have a modern rifle with sights they had been trained on to arm them without taking regular SMLE out of front line.

[@bazz2438]

I'd love to see Ian drop back up to Canada and do a review of our only commercially available . 50bmg rifle, the GM6 Lynx. It's a bullpup .50bmg classified as non-restricted.

[@stoneomountain2390]

It goes bang, spits out a bit of metal, is not fake. It's unique. A piece of art... It's just not part of a production run.

[@Redbird1504]

That's not what he meant....

[@21owlgirl72]

Can we all agree to call this the "Smiling Martini"?

[@Hypastpist]

"Smelly Martini"

[@nomdemorte1302]

SMartini. Also the name of a cocktail made from a Martini with Smarties instead of olives.

[@IAMDRMERVRENBARRON]

S&Martini, all it needs now is some leather.

[@hdog9046]

@@nomdemorte1302 Also, apparently a character on the children's show Between the Lions.

[@xgford94]

Nom DeMorte I was going to ask the recipe...Thank You

[@BadlanderOutsider]

Another thing to consider is that while this may not be a real conversion done by an OTC or such back in the day, it may be a conversion done, around the same time, by a gunsmith or amateur at home in the private market using surplused rifles, factory seconds, etc. It was a lot easier to get access to firearm parts and there weren't many laws about manufacturing, etc other than 'you need to get it proofed if you want to sell it'.

[@taggartlawfirm]

Wear seems consistent, the rack rash over markings indicated age of markings. The wood shows similar color, wear, and age, the dirt under the furniture seems proper to age. The inletting on the Enfield wood for martini mounting seems old rather than fresh cut. Old wood has a different smell, I kid you not. If it’s a Frankenstein it was done period or not later than the 20’s. There are few reasons to make such a kludge, that’s not a rifle it would pay to fake. So training; basic rifle skills, drill, or bayonet.

[@RussianBlue4S]

Even if it has zero history, the fact that it was done as nicely as it was makes this an interesting rifle on its own.

[@jusportel]

The forearm is converted from a late SMLE type. No step below the middle band, no volley sights. That style came out in the 1930's.

[@mikereed9047]

First rifle club I joined had .22 converted martini rifles way back in the late 70's and the ACF were still using .22 Lee Enfields until the last 2 years or so

[@Khanclansith]

It is Schroeder's Platypus... it is both real and fantasy until it is studied for determination.

[@skepticalbadger]

Schroedinger.

[@joshuaschoonyan3263]

Gee, I wonder which Arisaka expert he could ask. Great video bud. Good on ya.

[@angst_]

Curious to know if there are any tooling marks from the conversion that would be period correct. Wwhat type of milling and lathe tooling, techniques and surface finishes are common for ~1914? (as well as hardware and paint/bluing) I know British had their own thread standards before adopting metric so if you could find anything on the gun that was threaded in metric or sae it would perhaps prove that it was made somewhere illegitimate or at a later date than WWI? (my thought is someone making a fake may not have the correct machinery to produce old threads.)

[@AsbestosMuffins]

they would probably have used fairly minimal amounts of machining to do this but you would be hard pressed to see any sort of differences between old machining and older machining they didn't blue it either

[@51WCDodge]

The Whitworth Standard threads pre date 'both' guns.

[@RyTrapp0]

The problem is that the parts used here will likely show a LOOOT of life, there's likely to have been work done to these parts numerous times in their various forms of firearm. Maintenance, damage, refinishing, wear & tear, modification, negligence; in the bigger picture, just like at how long it's existed on earth post-raw material form.

[@felixthecat265]

@@51WCDodge That of course is true, however what is not so widely known is that Enfield had its own screw thread system which preceded Whitworth and was still in use in the No4 rifle. The most widely used Enfield thread is the one used on Parker Hale cleaning rods, and is in fact the same thread that is on the P53 ramrod and the Martini Henry clearing rod. This rifle would almost certainly have Enfield threads..! Taps and dies for Enfield threads are unfortunately made from Unobtainium!

[@sthenzel]

Looks like there may be faint vise marks on the chamber (left of the two proof marks), additional marks right of the flat portion on the top, those are covered by the hand guard, so damage by battle or general use is unlikely. A proper gunsmith most likely would have avoided such marks and used the appropriate tools like a barrel wrench or such. The stock and handguard show similar levels of wear, so if someone took an old Martini and put a considerably younger stock on it, the latter should either look little better or the conversion was done after WWI.

[@seanhall8686]

I have a Finnish M91 that is a hodgepodge of parts. Westinghouse receiver, Remington stock, imperial Russian Tula bolt with Serbian markings, Soviet front barrel band, probably a few more that I don't remember. You are more than welcome to take a look if you are in the New York City area.

[@01ZombieMoses10]

It's an older front-end sir, but it checks out.

[@holle2585]

the stock is marked Bradfield. not Bradford.

[@natepatterson4934]

Looks like a set-rifle from the movie “Zardoz.”

[@ashleypalmer7983]

In order to make a final determination, I’d find out if Bradford College ever had an OTC programme. I’m not sure if it did and the current programme appears to be limited to major UK universities. It looks too well made to have been just “cobbled together”. My guess is it was made by a reputable but small company. Martini Enfields were used by Territorial Army units up to just before WW1 so it’s possible that these rifles were reworked for OTC units into these configurations for training purposes. It would not be uncommon to use older Mk1 parts for these. Interesting.

[@thomaswilliams5039]

Good decision on making this video. Doesn't matter if it's real, or not, it belongs in a collection. It would be interesting to chase this.

[@jackdipicche_]

Ah yes, the Lee-Martini

[@tdugong]

Exclusively fires the Hirtenburger tuscadero ticonda's .303 ammo. They're super accurate.

[@michaeldanks5975]

A Martinlee?

[@andrewhilton9889]

Dear Ian, If this really is a factory or armory prouduced rifle the only way to tell is the extractor and firing pin will be smaller than standard to deal with the .303 shell. If the barrel has five rifling grooves that is a good sign, but not definitive as some may have three groove barrels as well. Some of the parts looked a little off to me. Lots of Oysters, only a few Pearls...

[@Plastikdoom]

Well, whether it’s authentic or a collector made one...it’s pretty damn cool, and definitely is well done, either way.