French Winchester 94: A Backup Arm for Fliers and Drivers

[@NotAMartian-1]

My great grandfather served in ww1 as a Canadian. He was gifted one of these the moment he got off the boat. After the war he brought it home and it’s stayed in the family. A cool piece of history.

[@douglasmcneil8413]

Between this and the Russian Winchesters, I'm finding my self more and more interested in the impact lever guns actually had in WW1. Thanks for showing us so many wonderful kernels of history.

[@TheRogueWolf]

I could see a French infantryman looking at that loading gate and quietly whispering "Merci, monsieur Winchester".

[@mysss29]

xD

[@ohioman4646]

Ouinchesteur

[@antek1854]

1:50 "Berthier carabine outfited with a Chauchat magazine" I want to see it so bad

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Antek 1854 I just posted some photos on the Forgotten Weapons Facebook page

[@Arbiter099]

ask and ye shall receive... in time :P kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGXOgYd3gLWrhZY

[@callmegulker]

gun jesus provides kzbin.info/www/bejne/qabcZphvirqkaKs

[@yankeeredneck7229]

Antek 1854 did you see the new video that just came out

[@nope2788]

500k well earned subs, keep doing good stuff Ian.

[@nimeshchokshi1921]

Nope He deserves a million tbh. He'll get there in time, but, Ian's videos are so interesting and informative that literally anyone can enjoy, be it a new gun enthusiast, an entire gun family, veterans, a sheriff's deputy, historical buffs, military buffs, etc.

[@buncer]

@@nimeshchokshi1921 He’s currently at 2.46 million. And it’ll just keep going up as time goes on.

[@0214Bub]

The 94 as a vehicle/air gun makes a lot of sense when you think about it. They are compact and in context offer a fair amount of firepower.

[@justinhemboorger1620]

this is what i grew up on.never knew the french had used them in the great war only heard of russian lever actions. lever actions are just beautiful firearms. thanks ian for all the great info

[@danilonakazone386]

And also... I love Ian's channel, I don't have any experience with firearms and I don't think I will ever hold even a simple pistol in my hands, but I love to watch this videos about guns and their history. It is such a rich culture to learn about!

[@jeyendeoso]

when your cowboys say "hon hon hon" instead of "yeeeeeeee-haw"

[@ohioman4646]

Ouiiiiiii-hon

[@jtf9185]

I'm a long time fan of your videos, all the history you know, the way you're able to flow from one thing to another without pause, it makes for great watching. What has impressed me the most though over the course of what now seems like scores of uploads, is that magnificent Napoleonic manifestation on your face.

[@jakeweston8616]

What a nice rifle. Have always wanted a good ole 94

[@lesfaekeith]

I believe the British may have used these for pilots as well and the term " gone Winchester " means they used all the ammunition for the main guns and only had the Winchester left

[@51WCDodge]

Yes both RFC and RNAS used the Winchester. (Royal Flying Corps, became Royal Airforce in 1918, and Royal Naval Air Service, became Fleet Air Arm)

[@matthayward7889]

lesfaekeith is that where the term "Winchester" as in 'I've run out of ammunition' comes from? Interesting!

[@51WCDodge]

Have had a bit of a hunt of around on this. Another surmise is that they were supplied with Winchester made ammunition. There is a reference to soldier's at Isinwalda calling for Eley or Kynoch, who were the munitions suppliers at the time.

[@mysss29]

Google shows no reference to any "Isinwalda" at all???

[@kevinoliver3083]

The Royal Flying Corps used the Winchester 1886 (44-90). The Royal Naval Air Service may have used the Winchester 1894.

[@3ducs]

Cowboy up Jacque!

[@vaclav_fejt]

Vachegarcon up, maybe?

[@KurwaRomek]

Hit the road, Jacques

[@Briselance]

Paul Alexander Fiche le camp, Jacques. Et ne reviens plus jamais.

[@troy9477]

I knew France bought WSL's, mainly for aircraft use. Did not know about these. Pretty cool. The 1000 meter sight is crazy, of course, but that is how ordnance people thought back then. The rifle makes perfect sense for guards, drivers, air crews, and the like. Was it a 20" carbine or a 24" rifle? I couldn't quite tell. I would not feel poorly armed with one. Great video as always. Thank you. Congrats on being over 500k subscribers!

[@andyd2960]

For me this would be a first choice pick from the weapons of the day. It amazes me that they didn't take off during the war.

[@eddyguizonde401]

a friend of mine has one. we christened her "the old lady", her serial number places her made in 1913 and she's got a very fun history. she's not exactly an easy gun to aim, but outside of skeet shotguns, we've never found a more comfortable gun to hold and shoot. still, she's very ornery (and recoils more than you'd expect). glad to see gun jesus got a chance to check out a sister to the old lady, they're wonderful lever-actions.

[@nimeshchokshi1921]

Hey Ian, thanks for making me addicted to firearms. I don't own any, but, this is by far one of the most interesting topics I have ever come across. To think that this curiosity started because I started buying more and more third party guns and gear to give to my Lego figs, thus I wanted to learn more about real guns :P

[@imbeauski8872]

Cowboys in the sky.

[@vaclav_fejt]

Cowboys on a boat.

[@4n701n3l35p1n3]

Cowboys in my pants

[@51WCDodge]

Sir! The early fliers considered themselves Gentlemen not Cowboys! Bear in mind heavier than aircraft were the Gucci kit These guys were the Buck Roger's of he time, so it was in the intrests of both sides propoganda to portray Noble, Heroic, Youth ! Defending the Dear Old Home, and Mum's Home Made Spotty Dick (Nearest I could think off to the American Apple Pie reference) or what ever the French, crossiant's maybe, equivalent from the dastardly enemy. ( The term Gentle in this respect traces back to Norman French were to be Gentle meant aristocratic)

[@childrenofcod5866]

Birdboys

[@baker90338]

SPEHSS COWBOYZ

[@robertrol1020]

Would You ever be able to do a vid on the Chauchat-Ribeyrolles 1918 submachine gun?

[@Sosorasoul]

The chances of finding one in good conditions is almost impossible.

[@aspenfacer-valentine4397]

I get that France needed the guns ASAP, but it must have been a logistical nightmare to deal with so many different rifles with 4 different cartridges.

[@jeffryrichardson9105]

Very cool! Happy 4th of July! 😀👍🏼❤️🇺🇸

[@jbrunty1989]

500k. congrats ian

[@billwessels207]

Very interesting history lesson. But you might look up the differences between meter and yard. Enjoyed the video and the rifle.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

The sight ends at 1000m and at 2000yd. That's not the same as saying 2yd=1m.

[@betaich]

Oh my god at first C&Rsenal with the British ordered 1892 for boats and now Ian with that French Winchester. That is a good day.

[@Ivan-vn1pd]

Also I bet this is Ian's deer rifle

[@ngarewyrd]

today, C&Rsnel dropped an episode on the Winchester 1892 in WW1, Now, you throw us an episode on the Winchester 1894... Are you guys colluding or something?

[@DaveTex2375]

Ngarewyrd Shurasae There is no collusion. This conspiracy theory is merely to tarnish the image of Gun Jesus. Fake News.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Ngarewyrd Shurasae Yes, we did coordinate these two :)

[@bennyjoe1990]

You were saying dave?

[@johnwizeman3894]

Cool, I just watched C&Rsenal's British model 92 video.

[@davidkermes393]

Given that the 30-30 magazine requires a flat/soft nose bullet to prevent primer detonation, how did the Winchester handle the military law requiring only full jacketed ammo ?

[@BurningMonkey]

Awesome paisley table cloth. Cause paisley is awesome.

[@steveallen8987]

I really love watching your excellent videos. However living in U.K. I have little familiarity with cartridges so when you mention 3030 it doesn't mean a lot. Showing an example of a cartridge would make it a lot easier to gauge the power of the weapon. Looking forward to your next gem

[@TylerHulan]

steve allen looking up 30-30 winchester would yield numerous results. It is still a very popular cartridge here.

[@landotomunn9048]

French WEAPONS!!! YEAH!!!!! Thanks!!

[@ristoalanko9281]

Yesterday C&Rsenal posted a video of British navy using Winchester 1894s. Now Ian shows French contract 1894s. What comes tomorrow, German cavalry contract 1894s???

[@willkenny5687]

Risto Alanko Italian 1894s made by Mauser in Springfield for the Japanese navy.

[@millwaterpublishing1387]

1000 Meters may have been just a little optimistic for 30-30.

[@bushwhackedonvhs]

Millwater Publishing It’s technically possible but probably not gonna happen

[@emilhajbert5326]

I'd love to see one of those Berthier carbines with the Chauchat magazine.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Emil Hajbert I posted some photos on the Forgotten Weapons Facebook page...

[@emilhajbert5326]

Thanks Ian

[@gabber88ful]

hello from holland coupd you get your hands on one of the berthier rifles with chauchat magazine ian

[@raphaellagace400]

My great great grandfather bring back one from war, it's currently being cleaned by one of my friend

[@andywander]

Ian, how about a full shot of the art on the wall behind you?

[@bennyjoe1990]

I can imagine a french soldier looking at the loading gate. Then glancing at his lebel and going "Pourquoi n'avons-nous pas pensé à cela?" P.S. I used google translate

[@quentingentil977]

Good news: the translation is correct.

[@Gunsbeerfreedom87]

I have a feeling I'm going to be seeing this again in 2 weeks...

[@leverfever375]

I thought those guns had stamps added to the side of the receiver to show year of procurement? Mine has an 06 stamped on the left side opposite of the loading gate.

[@ChudesaRadugi]

спасибо за ваши видео! очень интересно!

[@williamprince1114]

Now I feel compelled to go and compare the 8mm Lebel cartridge and the 30 WCF and see if it was feasible to have had these chambered in 8mm Lebel. I'm thinking not but I have to know for sure because I am just that kind of nerd.

[@rw2954]

Hey Ian, could you answer a question for me please? I've tried googling but it keeps giving me the coloured tip on play guns for kids to indicate they aren't real. When you see soldiers do live training they have some kind of coloured cap at the end of the barrel where the hole is, or sometimes theres something attached to the middle of the barrel - What are those things called and what do they do? Just tags to indicate they have blanks or is there a deeper thing to them?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Those are blank firing adapters. They serve as a visual flag that the gun is not firing live ammo, and they will stop a live bullet should one be fired (although they will be destroyed in the process). Most importantly, they restrict the size of the muzzle to increase gas pressure and allow semiautomatics to function with blank ammo (normally it requires the pressure of a bullet being fired to cycle).

[@Pitchlock8251]

a levergun and a mirlsup......must have one!!!

[@eRahja]

same place where you filmed M3 silencer episode?

[@whisperchainsaw102]

i hope this gets added to battlefield one.

[@jamess662]

When do we get to see the 1907 Winchester slr?

[@alexmoore1506]

French copy of an American rifle on the 4th of July?! Blasphemy! Lol. Great video as always

[@Vaasref]

It's not a copy, it was just purchased by France.

[@Buzzard-wq1bw]

A Berthier carbine with a chaut-chaut magazine!! now I gotta see that! :)

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Buzz Bombs Gaming and guns I just posted some photos on the Forgotten Weapons Facebook page

[@Buzzard-wq1bw]

Forgotten Weapons AWSOME :)

[@Furri1bia]

Don´t forget also the thong of Remington Rolling Blocks used by the french as second rate troops rifle.

[@cahillm2]

After watching this video I got the crazy idea of having either an 1886 or 1894 chambered for 8mm Lebel, although I don't know if the rim diameter or overall cartridge length would support that. Just a random dumb idea.

[@Velciraptor12]

Ian, would airfield guards be considered part of Infanterie territoriale?

[@raphaellagace400]

There were also less than a hundred in 32special ordered in 1915

[@timothyparkinson9985]

At 3:20 when the caption came on screen it said "these" when you meant there is.

[@WayStedYou]

Kinda surprised they didn't make them in 16-inch barrel if it's for close quarters. And truck drivers

[@dredelcottcryptozooligist4101]

I know this is an older video, but id be interested to know if any military used the Savage 99 during WW1. Seems its ability to shoot spitzer bullets and built in cartridge counter would have been an improvement over the 94.

[@pvp66]

Happy Fourth, if the screws are metric they were installed by the French, if not Winchester did. Measure it😕

[@brokkur7629]

Don't be so sure. The French metric threads varied, and might not be immediately recognisable as modern M-series threads.

[@chrisstephens6673]

I think we can be pretty sure the Winchester fitted the sights as they didn't know how to spell Metre.😕

[@KingdomOfDimensions]

Not sure if you're just making the usual US vs UK spelling joke, but just in case, "meter" is the proper American spelling. In British-english the convention for french words is to use the original spelling, but in the US almost every -re french word is changed to -er by convention. Sabre -> saber and theatre -> theater are some other examples.

[@chrisstephens6673]

I had noticed the spelling oddities, but the rifle was meant for the French and I'm sure they would have laughed at the "illiterate" Americans. Metre is by the way the ISO and SI spelling. Not that it really matters, you can;t tell the spelling when talking. I suppose we all spell or pronounce things in an unexpected way to show that someone, who doesn't know, isn't "one of us".

[@fdmackey3666]

Just when I think you've run out guns to make me feel stupid for not buying (or in a few cases SELLING/TRADING) over the years you come up with this one. When I was in my early teens a butt ton load of surplus WWI and WWII rifles, carbines and even handguns were basically dumped on the U.S. market by any number of importers. I was shopping for my first "real" deer rifle at the time and among my many options was one almost identical (in outward condition) to the one featured in this video. I was however, being sold as a "Peruvian Calvary Carbine". I took a look at the bore and was appalled! Needless to say I took a pass on that $50.00 carbine and purchased something else with a better bore. Oh well....Live and learn.

[@HoboSpectre]

Beside this gun, and the Winchester 95, were their any other their lever action guns used in ww1?

[@Vaasref]

"Win 95" means "Windows 95" not "Winchester 95" ;]

[@kevinoliver3083]

The Royal Navy used the Winchester 1892 and 1894. And the Royal Flying Corps used the Winchester 1886, in .44-90, for balloon busting with incendiary bullets.

[@robertkokko7731]

Can you make videos about ak variants such as vz58, Rk62 and so on? I dont know how common they are in the US of A but would be cool.

[@OriginalBongoliath]

Vz-58 isn't an AK variant. Not one thing in that rifle interchanges with the AK except ammo. Two completely different designs that happen to have a similar outward profile does not make it a variant. For the rest of your question the Vz is much more common in the U.S. with the deluge of parts kits, kit builds from private companies, and CSA compared to the Rk.62 which were only imported in limited numbers for a few years back in the 80's.

[@robertkokko7731]

Scott7891 I am aware that the action is totally different I meant ak "style" if u can call it that. Eastern european firearms in general.

[@Viinapoika]

when you upload the kp-31 vid? :)

[@Lockbar]

so. any info on how the French got rid of these? Sold off before WW2??

[@SquareoftheyearFM]

If it was adapted for the French, why did they put 'METERS' and not 'METRES' or 'MÈTRES'?

[@Giloup92]

Pete FlintMurray A typo ?

[@jasondoe2596]

Pete FlintMurray that's actually a good question!

[@TheRogueWolf]

If Winchester made the sights (and I'd think so, since they also had yardage), they probably would've used the English spelling by habit. I'm sure the French didn't care much.

[@SquareoftheyearFM]

*American spelling. The rest of the world calls it a metre. A meter is a device that measures and records the quantity, degree, or rate of something, like a gas meter or an electricity meter.

[@TheRogueWolf]

Fair point. American spelling would be the more accurate term.

[@keessprong1]

Sorry for the dumb question in advance I am a total noob. But is it a problem if the inside of the barrel becomes wet. From standing in the rain for example, can you then still shoot safely?

[@alexmoore1506]

Kees Sprong guns aren't really affected by water. You just have to make sure your ammo keeps relatively dry.

[@jacobryun870]

I just bought one of these last week at a gun shop for next to nothing, are they not valuable or did I get a good buy?

[@sirzack0002]

3:16 *Russian voice* these is good rifle!

[@almathor]

French guy here, we used to have one of those in the family. It was used in the trenches by the great grand father.

[@almathor]

He took a maxim MG bullet in the leg, was gased 3 times (had pulmonary problems all his life) and fought from 1915 to 1918. What you think you know about french military don't interest me.

[@almathor]

gw.geneanet.org/pierfit?lang=fr&p=charles&n=du+verdier+de+genouillac&oc=2 traduction of the text in the picture : Has showwn since the start of the war the most noble military qualities, the most courage and the most endurance. Was criticaly wounded. You can also see that both his brothers died in battle. What point are you trying to make?

[@almathor]

you are useless

[@willkenny5687]

almathor ignore the troll. Anyone who knows history knows that almost 75% of France's overall military mobilization became casualties. There was no running, just millions that fell where they stood.

[@colnagocowboy]

that would be cool to have

[@ProjectD13X]

Did you mean to say the French ordered 15.1 million rounds of ammo? In the video you say Winchester ordered the ammo. Also looks like a typo where you wrote "These is disagreement about.."

[@trevfeht4113]

I accidentally bought one of these a few years ago😁

[@18ferris88]

Is it 'N' marked?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Seamus no, because it's not chambered for 8mm Lebel

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Nice - but: As an American, shouldn't you be doing some kind of 4th of July special? ;) (Hell, maybe you are and aren't sharing? ;) )

[@jefffroman7044]

Cool

[@SigurdKristvik]

l think they also bought some Remington Rolling Block.

[@doraran5158]

I've seen one in 8 x 50R French.

[@kevinbietry7527]

So .30-30 technically does have a military service history.

[@minuteman4199]

If I was a truck driver in WW1 I would be very happy to have this rifle. I think it would be much more useful that lugging around a Lebel or Berthier.

[@davidstegman8147]

It carried one more round than the Lebel didn't it?

[@PositionLight]

Alert Othias!

[@doraran5158]

His channel has an M1892 carbine [.44WCF] in British use.

[@betaich]

Today he had a video on a British used 1892 for boats.

[@monkeyfarmer1138]

Mae is a cowboy boat inspector!

[@Suethes]

Hmm... the wall plaster tells me Ian is somewhere in Europe again...

[@ditto1958]

...but not just any Winchester 1894... 😀

[@nicholas_scott]

why the 1894 and not 1895? the '95 seemed to be the more useful gun for militaries

[@jaydee1532]

They still carry them with horses that is why

[@1fanger]

Fill your hands, you son of a frog!

[@danpetre9744]

The Turks used lever-action Winchesters in the russo turkish war (1877-1878) as well .

[@R005t3r]

I'd take that '94 over a Berthier anytime.

[@Deterrent-xz5zz]

You have a point but berthier= fast reload

[@slashdotism]

HEYO!

[@Ashfielder]

C&Rsenal and now this? These Winchesters get around.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Toby Wood We deliberately coordinated these two videos :)

[@betaich]

+Fogotten Weapons you sneaky man.

[@Ashfielder]

Forgotten Weapons Are you really Mae in disguise?

[@CB-pi5hc]

1000 meters?! no fucking way THAT gun can make that shot. in ww1 to boot!

[@deepsouthredneck1]

I'd much rather have this than a lebel TBH.

[@jankusthegreat9233]

These would have made better use In the trenches

[@Bluetiger457]

See you Sky Cowboy

[@oolooo]

And France had never adopted any Single Action revolver .How the hell could they use a Lever Action Rifle without a Single Action Revolver ? .Shame .

[@danilonakazone386]

I have question! Does not have anything to do with the video but it does with guns in history, kind of. Is the M-16,M4, AR-15 the last evolution of combat/military/service gun or there will be a next platform of rifle?

[@farenheit1100]

Would you know a good source for 1916 Berthier Carbine parts. I need a nose cap. I have tried all the usual places without any luck. Thanks Hugh

[@mrtlsimon]

This rifle is so very cool. I had no interest in owning a 30-30 Winchester until I saw this one. I would like to own a regular 30-30 and make a clone of this one because the story behind it is cool. It's like "The Wild Bunch" made it to France during WW1.

[@liammeech3702]

What was the point of being armed behind enemy lines in trench warfare How would you escape back?

[@kevinoliver3083]

The Great War was not confined to the Western Front. And even there, there was manouveur warfare in 1914 and again in 1918 (the Kaiserschlact and the Hundred Days offensives).

[@kuttinkuddy3905]

Othius is going to be mad at u gun Jesus....

[@DIEKALSTER8]

2000 yards is not 1000 meters.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Look at the sight. The yard markings go to 2000; the meter markings end at 1000. I know that 2000yd is not 1000m.

[@JonnyAugz]

The French are our oldest ally right?

[@UnintelligibleYT]

Kicking UK in the ass anytime with you, friends.

[@tmac1530]

shame the US didn't reciprocate the favour when us Brits kicked French and Spanish ass all over Europe in the Peninsular war. Turns out you can only beat us together I guess.

[@scottmccrea1873]

The fact the French Army thought they'd need to actually fight cavalry shows just how utterly out of touch they were with the Great War that was about to drop upon them. They arrogantly ignored the lessons of the US Civil War and their men, and Western Civilization, would pay the price.

[@kevinoliver3083]

There were several engagements with cavalry in 1914 and again in 1918. Manouveur warfare was not always impossible, even on the Western Front.

[@scottmccrea1873]

@kevinoliver3083 true. But cavalry played no role of any consequence in the West. As the US Civl War showed, infantry armed with rifles basically drove the cavalry off the battlefield. Machine guns and rapid firing artillery just made it worse

[@scottmccrea1873]

Also, cavalary's effectiveness on the battlefield had rapidly waned from the 1850s. Obviously still useful for scouting, raiding, skirmishing and communication, rapid firing rifles meant that a decision maker on the battlefield, cavalry was absolute even before the US Civil War and the Franco-Prussian War. The slaughter of the Light Brigade in the 1850s had shown that massed cavalry attacks against artillery and rifles was simply su1c1de. By the US Civil War, they didn't even try it. @@kevinoliver3083

[@scottmccrea1873]

Maneuver warfare wasn't eliminated obviously. The Race to the Sea and the War in the East was largely one of maneuver, at least at first. And as you know, the internal combustion engine would restore mobility to the battlefield.@@kevinoliver3083

[@kevinoliver3083]

​The use of cavalry and armoured cars to harass retreating German troops was a key element in the success of the Hundred Days Offensive in 1918. While one reason the Spring 1918 Offensive failed was because the Germans hadn't done the same. Allowing Allied forces time to rally and regroup.

[@leepalmer1210]

Why on gods green earth would anyone want a bolt action when you can use this??? Its faster, your own mud test proves it uber reliable. And it has far better ergonomics.