Stocked Pistols: Great or Garbage?

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Stocked pistols: they have been around as long as pistols have been around, but are they really all that useful?
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[@ForgottenWeapons]

THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE TO WIN! go.getenteredtowin.com/forgottenweapons Deadline to enter is TONIGHT 07/28/23!

[@dillan.mclenaghan]

love your long hair like mine

[@blunderingfool]

​@@dillan.mclenaghanI'm catching up on him. :P

[@brokeandtired]

VP70 was a stocked burst fire pistol (unreliable), and the Beretta 93r too (nice stock on, burst fire horrific stock off).

[@mr.nobody---]

Do a vid on the gflex bianary in a micro Roni 😊😊😊

[@Airforce1Gunny]

application error

[@stevenreckling203]

They're better than pistols that are out of stock.

[@bmaxse]

😄😀👏

[@thisiswhatilike54]

Ya got me. Have my Like

[@thisguy41487]

Indeed.

[@d.b.1176]

Noice

[@spitfiremac]

So.... Flux Defense then 😅

[@Skulgar321]

Putting a scope and shoulder stock on the Volcanic is still the most optimistic thing I've seen.

[@tombogan03884]

This is the gun a guy tried killing himself with, his family came home to find him swearing about the lump the ball left on his head.

[@guaporeturns9472]

Definitely 😂

[@ShotGunner5609]

*laughs in 1000 meter mark on Mosin nagant.*

[@V3RTIGO222]

The scopes at the time were very low magnification, pretty sure having 1000m ranging for iron sighted bolt guns is the pinnacle of military overestimation

[@nobody2021]

There was a version of the arisaka type 99 with anti aircraft sights and I think that takes the cake for me

[@ottovonbearsmark8876]

For a solid stretch of firearms history, the average pistol had a higher rate of fire than a long arm. That seems to be where stocked pistols pay off, better stability for close quarters rapid fire. As opposed to the whole “carry like a pistol, shoot like a rifle” concept that never really worked.

[@Ass_of_Amalek]

when german storm troopers used stocked pistols for trench assaults, the alternatives were either stockless pistols, or bolt action rifles, were they not?

[@tombogan03884]

@@Ass_of_Amalek Or an MG-08/15 😆 I'll take the stocked pistol thank you. 😬

[@ottovonbearsmark8876]

@@Ass_of_Amalek exactly. At least until the MP18, and even then they were rare.

[@michaeltempsch5282]

​@@Ass_of_AmalekLate in the war (from July '18), and in limited numbers (apparently ~17k produced during the war, not sure how many of those that reached units) there was the MP18.

[@scarecrow559fresno]

thank you for your service

[@geodkyt]

Almost 20 years ago, I was involved in a team that was looking at improving the chances for an ejected pilot by figuring a better survival weapon option. At the time, we were really leaning towards something like a Glock 19 sized gun, with a shoulder stock and a suppressor. The idea being that the pistol could be worn on the survival vest (as sidearm are now), and the suppressor and a polymer frame stock could be strapped along the lower legs. Thus, the pilot would always have all three components on them. (Alternative proposal was a takedown SBR carbine conversion kit for the Glock (or whatever) with a integrally suppressed barrel and rifle type sights on the upper This wasn't so 1LT Flyboy could play Rambo. The idea was, if he needed to take small game or take out one random troop, he could do so without giving away his position to everyone within a mile, and the stock would give him a little bit better hit probability, to give him a chance out to about 50m. I'll note the USAF now uses modified take down M4 type rifles in the seat pack for pretty much the same thing, although I don't believe they issue a suppressor. The primary driver there was to give the pilot the chance to survive uncaptured for just a few more minutes by heading to a hilltop or similar and hold the enemy off at distance, to give the PJs more time to get to him.

[@Kesssuli]

Maybe dumb question but i somehow have imagination those ejections to be pretty violent and most likely cause problems for your back. How likely it is to pilot actually survive on ground from day to week ? Or im totally wrong about that ejection ?

[@NikoMoraKamu]

@@Kesssuli you are right , normally is a super violent moment and hard for the bodies of the pilots , but there have been cases of pilots who have ejected without suffering great damage. I suppose it will depend a lot on each situation.

[@Kesssuli]

@@NikoMoraKamu But overally if options are to stay in flying bomb and most likely explode million pieces when hitting ground i think there is very little to think which is more hazard to your healt. Still good to know how things are prepated while hoping you will be mostly okay after bailing out. Already knew those survival kits at ww2 pilot era and it was fascinating to hear modern take up.

[@wraithwyvern528]

Yeah for once military procurement was smart and just bought Cry Havoc takedown kits from the commercial market instead of spending millions of taxpayer money on developing something that probably won't even work in the end.

[@dark2023-1lovesoni]

I think a cross between the folding stocked Beretta 92SBWS and the suppressed KAC XM9 would have been pretty useful as well. Especially for SERE situations.

[@keithweiss7899]

I remember when the possession of a C96 and shoulder stock was illegal. Then the BATFE decided it was okay. Suddenly all of those sellers who had C96’s without the matching stock, came up with the matching stock for them!🤣

[@AshleyPomeroy]

"We lost them in a boating accident - but all of a sudden they bobbed to the surface"

[@KnightsWithoutATable]

@@AshleyPomeroy Turns out it wasn't in that car that caught fire, but was in grandpa's old steamer trunk.

[@KnightsWithoutATable]

Had dynamite in it. Who knew?

[@boomchacle6717]

@@AshleyPomeroy yeah it's a good thing wood floats right?

[@khamsin5888]

law abiding gun owners- am i right?

[@Zombine45]

I think a lot of people confuse something being cool with it being good.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

"Look good doing it" has always been the first rule, probably dating back to Pharaohs... :)

[@TheCouchCommando]

@@ForgottenWeapons I bet chariot was invented to make shooting bow much cooler. "Yes, it has to be gilded, what kind of question is that?"

[@itsapittie]

I agree their niche is very small but I still think they’re cool. Sometimes that’s enough reason to own one. If they weren’t NFA items, I’d have one.

[@genesfel]

@@itsapittie I mean, the coolness factor as the single reason for its existence is enough for many many sports cars, so i dont see why it shouldnt be enough for a stocked pistol :D

[@Getpojke]

@@TheCouchCommando That & "...does it take Glock quivers?" 😆

[@alecubudulecu]

I’ve shot quite a few stocked pistols with and without optics. I always say “it lets you shoot 50 yards very accurately” Basically it extends your offhand shooting capabilities by about 15 yards.

[@herbderbler1585]

That's very generous of you to assume most people can hit anything with a handgun at 35 yards.

[@alecubudulecu]

@@herbderbler1585 lol. Not hit. Sorry im talking about tight Groups. Reaching the pistol’s ideal MOA of like 6-8” at 100yards. So like 3-4 inches at 50. I totally get people can hit an IPSC sized target at those ranges.

[@flaircraft]

It's pretty ridiculous that a C96 Mauser has tangent sights that adjust all the way out to 2,000 meters.

[@bennyboogenheimer4553]

One of my favorite memories as a kid, was Dad taking us to 1976 Energy Exposition in Philadelphia. The energy crisis was in high gear, gas had gone from 23 cents, to 86 cents a gallon, CRAZY! So at the Expo, there's Mini RV's, and one was a VW Bug, that could turn a full 360* underneath the towed camper. My Dad asked the guy where he got the ideal for the tow rig and camper combo? He said, he saw a 1918 Artillery Luger, and it all just clicked.

[@gregsmith5695]

A couple of those VW Beetle fifth wheel trailers have been found. There are a few videos of them on KZbin now. There was also a VW Beetle based camper called the Little Bugger.

[@Chris_FMS_Redfield]

I didn't know there were stocked flintlock pistols. SBR regulations DEFINITELY don't adhere to Bruen's standards. This would be huge in the pistol brace lawsuits.

[@tenchraven]

The problem with a stocked pistol is that people think the stock makes it not a pistol, ballistically speaking. It's still a pistol, just more stable. Because it doesn't magically change that, people think they suck. And in a way, for the bulk of the stock, they do. But it's a tool, an option, that you use when it's the right tool. They have a role- motorcycle cops, a pilot or tanker's bail out gun, that kind of thing. And then you've got the other side of it, the "forbidden fruit" theory. I'd rather have something with better sights where the bolt isn't rocketting back at my eyeball!

[@XtreeM_FaiL]

"If you put a stock on a pistol, it becomes a gun and you can shoot larger calibers." -Biden

[@5anjuro]

A stocked pistol is perhaps a mediocre carbine but much better than no rifle at all. It does have its niche as a pilot's survival gun etc specialty applications. Btw, the Soviet "Makarov" (PM) has a hidden stock potential, the grips are removed and there's a socket for a retention screw. Can be easily equipped with a wooden or 3D stock.

[@williammagoffin9324]

That last part sounds a lot like the Crosman 1322 "American Classic" air pistols. Unscrew the handgrips and screw on a shoulder stock. They're so common there is several sources for aftermarket stocks from side folders to mounts for AR style stocks. I have one with the regular Crosman carbine stock but 3D printed rails for a reddot and light. Thought about getting a suppressor for it too since they're unregulated.

[@Teehashee]

I think shooter preference is also a factor particularly when counting how long the concept has existed practically in history. I prefer to shoot a pistol, and when I want a stock, I want it.

[@Saltpork305]

I have a G34 build that has a brace/stock setup and the lessons I learned from that are worth sharing: Fixed red dot, not one on the slide. Forget iron sights. Use a fixed red dot. Seriously. It's a 50-75 yard gun. You're not going to take it further with reasonable accuracy quickly, even with a g34 length barrel. If you can accept these downsides, it's easy to have on a single point sling, it's easy to store in a backpack discreetly(which is my purpose for it) and it absolutely will give you more distance than typical pistol shooting which really is 20 yards and in for almost everyone. It fits the idea of a small PDW, but doesn't fit the idea of a PCC/SMG/Carbine. It's just a bigger pistol. I will outshoot that G34 setup all day every day with better ammo with an m1 carbine with iron sights and that's just the reality. However, an M1 is a lot harder to fit into a north face backpack when I travel.

[@xXMrPocketsXx]

Why would you sling a pistol? Also why would you need a stock to hit with a pistol at 50 yards? If your shoving the gun into a bag anyway then why not use a PPC? Seems to me like you should have questioned your requirements before you chose to force a hand gun to be a carbine.

[@Saltpork305]

@@xXMrPocketsXx 50 yard shots accurately with a pistol is range stuff, not reality. Ideal conditions, not actual use. A braced pistol makes that far more viable and as for why I don't carry a carbine, put your rifle in a normal daily use backpack. Good luck. You will sacrifice a lot to do it. My PDW setup sacrifices nothing and that was the point. I'm just realistic about what it is and what it can do vs a rifle because it's not a rifle. I have an EDC pistol that I can shoot well inside 20 yards and a pdw that let's me reach out further faster within realistic accuracy standards for 50-75 yards without issue. That's its entire purpose and it works well.

[@dieyproductions4403]

I am curious to know how do you think you would feel about MP7 if it was an option or TP9 compared to your current PDW setup?

[@Saltpork305]

@@dieyproductions4403 Brass Facts did a great TP9 video and was realistic about the drawbacks. Still, since mp7's are just not a thing here, I wouldn't mind a setup tp9 at all. It's the same idea honestly. The PM63 RAK & vz61 are historical examples. I have a vz61 as well. It's all PDW fodder.

[@dieyproductions4403]

@@Saltpork305 Before Brass Facts publishing that video, nearly review I saw on KZbin for TP9 trashed it, I thought to myself how can no one get the value in this till Brass Facts video came out, glad that he did it. Hope someone makes an MP7 clone, cause we know that if HK would try to bring it, first it would some horribly disfigured version of it and second would cost a kidney to buy. I really like PM63 RAK!! Shame that none makes a reproduction of that one either, but I mean it is pretty similar to TP9 in functionality. Compared to everything else, PDWs seem to be pretty rare and unknown unfortunately.

[@mooslionheart]

Ian’s omission of the U.N.C.L.E. P-38 with birdcage flash hider, silencer, Bushnell Phantom pistol scope and collapsible shoulder stock can only denote his devoting an entire upcoming episode to this iconic arms milestone evolution of the premier LEO of the 20th century

[@828enigma6]

That combination of goodies actually exists, or did. I've a magazine article about it. It was capable of full auto fire. The suppressor, I believe the supressor would have worked but was too small to be really functional. Also, the barrel was baffled to permit blanks to function the firearm, which would preclude real ammo being used.

[@commoncriminal923]

This luger would've been legal in ireland up until 2008, RIP.

[@keenanmcbreen7073]

Yea, the small jump up to an SMG gets you a massive jump in fire power, so having the most iconic stocked pistols be from the era just before widespread SMG use makes sense.

[@frankbrowning328]

I'd argue that the ability to get on longer range targets more quickly & accurately was/is an advantage. Typical hunting rifles & old military rifles (pre AK47, AR's etc.) also had/have less capacity than many pistols are capable of. The Luger with its snail drum became a trench broom. The early carbines like it and the Broomhandle Mauser were used in this way. The newer designs also include AR and AK rifles cut down to pistols and up until recently offered pistol braces that many used as short stocks. These were hugely popular with red dots, scopes, prism optic scopes, etc. The closest many of us can get to the submachinegun is a pistol cal carbine with a short barrel and short stock which is basically a pistol with a stock.

[@egoalter1276]

Stocked pistols are just inefficient smgs. They dont use their length to ha a barrel as long as possible.

[@xray86delta]

When I was young, in the late 70s, a complete artillery Luger rig, like the one offered, was sold at the Tulsa Gun Show for the princely price of $1,500! 😉

[@joecary3586]

I was at a gun auction a couple months ago and they had two artillery Lugers and a C96. The Lugers went for $4k each and the C96 went for $5k.

[@philips.5563]

I think the modem ideas like the Flux chassis have a lot of merit, but it is highly situational.

[@jonnycarcano]

That, and the Recover 20/20.

[@snkn9857]

How about Vz-61 and PM-63 RAK? Yes, they are sub machinegun, but have the size like a pistol. We still have the Stechkin APS. Just like the Luger Artillery was originally designed for artillery but used by Stormtroopers, there is a market for the second line military soldiers, and Special Forces that focus on close combat and stealth, they both need small repeating firearms that are easy to carry. For the second line military soldiers, I think the real issue may be that short barreled rifles/carbines are less logistically and training cost to the military than Stocked Pistols. But there is still a market for Special Forces that requires high firepower concealed carry weapons. (although not big)

[@jubuttib]

IIRC the Vz-61 at least is usually classified as a machine pistol for the exact size reason. Though admittedly that distinction in definitions doesn't exist in all languages, any full auto gun firing pistol caliber ammo is called a "machine pistol" in Finnish for example. There's no such thing as "submachine gun".

[@rogo7330]

I suppose they will not do great against modern armor. Even "AP" 9x39 for VSS looking bad today. Imaginate how bad pistol will do in that situation. Besides, most paramilitary forces (police e.g.), if expected some shooting around, just tossing "concealed weapon" concept out of the window and bringing something that can shoot futher and punch through at least some armor. Or maybe it's just soviet-block era "police" that damaged my view into thinking that way because they carrying freaking AKS-74U for "intimidation".

[@patrikhjorth3291]

I have a few multitools, including a proper Victorinox "Swiss army knife". I _love_ that Victorinox, because it lets me have the basic functions of several different tools in a tiny package. It will never perform any of those functions as well as a "real" tool, and I'd be stupid to expect it to. But if I just quickly need to tighten a screw, or cut open a cardboard box, it will serve me a lot better than a good screwdriver or boxcutter that I left back home in the toolbox. These pistols are an excellent example of the same thing. They are likely to be more accurate than the same pistol without a stock, and easier to carry than an actual rifle carbine. As Ian points out in this video, those traits are a lot less useful to most firearms users than a multitool is to the average person with a sudden need for a cork screw.

[@Gabthar]

I’ve always felt a folding carbine would be a better option than a stocked pistol

[@Gabthar]

@@Kinetic.44 you can wear it on your back though

[@lordrevan7569]

@@Kinetic.44 you cant wear a stocked pistol on your belt either lol

[@salvadorsempere1701]

@@lordrevan7569 Scorpion disagree with you

[@jubuttib]

@@lordrevan7569 A lot of the stocks are holsters. Sure you can't wear it fully assembled, but if you have any time to prepare you can put it on.

[@lordrevan7569]

@@salvadorsempere1701 the Skorpion is a submachine gun not a pistol and also you cannot holster the Skorpion either unless you are comfortable holstering it without a magazine inserted or you have the original 10 round mags it came with which are not produced anymore. also the Skorpions wire stock is not a proper stock and does not disperse or stabilize recoil to the same effectiveness as the stocks this video is referring to (rifle/carbine stocks) - stocks that actually do what they are suppose to do and provide a 4th point of contact on the cheek

[@wealthybone2990]

I think it depends on pistol but it also it seems like a thing mostly used during WW1 and maybe even WW2 before SMGs were a main thing but smgs are pretty much a better pistol with a stock and can be automatic. Also I see no point really for a stocked pistol because you want it to be easily concealable and also as an emergency weapon too, also you're not really gonna be shooting far with pistol mostly anyways.

[@alexsawicki]

I think that with today's technology, anyone that's open carrying a full-sized pistol could benefit from having a collapsible stock on their pistol (a sliding stock seems the best?)... As long as the pistol is still fully functional with the stock collapsed. Mostly police officers are what I'm thinking of. Sometimes, cops DO have to shoot at further ranges then a pistol would allow... But, don't have time to get a rifle. Sometimes, cops know they're going into a firefight, but again, don't have time to go get a rifle. Getting a small amount of extra accuracy and slightly extended effective range seems like a worthy tradeoff. It's not like cops are trying to conceal their weapon anyway. They're carrying a pistol because it's easy to holster, not because it's easy to conceal. And, there are holsters that can accommodate extendable/collapsible stocks for pistols.

[@cymond]

"you're not really gonna be shooting far with a pistol mostly anyways." Yes, but you've got the cause and effect backwards. You won't be shooting far because you *can't* shoot very far with a pistol. But we don't get to decide the range where the S hits the fan. We don't get to choose the range where we come under attack. A compact weapon makes sense for when you do not expect to be attacked, but it's also a possibility.

[@wealthybone2990]

@@alexsawicki I guess so but when I meant concealable I meant like with holsters and or a way to have access to your gun easily because I feel with a stock it might be harder especially with a holster but I didn't know they did made holsters for pistols with stocks and idk how that would work.

[@gamerbg294]

I see it being welcome in a situation where someone has a handgun and carries it, but when gets home he does not need to conceal it, therefore, the stock serves as a simpler and cheaper alternative to another weapon, increasing the pratical rate of fire and accuracy at short range

[@wealthybone2990]

@@gamerbg294 I guess you have a point there, I haven't really thought of that.

[@jessebell1930]

@ForgottenWeapons solid points. I remember having a conversation with a Korean War Veteran from our Battalion Association (2 RAR- Australian Army) after we got back from East Timor. The conversation came up because I told him Australian Infantry generally have very little training using pistols. Which is true. Special Forces aka Commandos and SAS do extensive pistol training, however Regular Infantry do not. He said much the same as you. There was a lot of close quarter combat at times in that war, and some small amounts of stocked pistols were used by certain soldiers. Machine gunners in general were issued pistols as backup (especially as the Chinese often overan positions temporarily), however that was generally the extent of it. I don't know if the stocks were issued or otherwise acquired (he did say some American and British troops were issued them), however he said they "weren't much chop". That he would take an Owen Gun anytime for close quarters. If a Digger from a war that didn't finish until 70 years ago was saying what you are saying now, I think time tells all that is needed. Love your work mate. And great work with the Artillery Luger at the range👍

[@earlyriser8998]

Everything you said is why the USA developed the M1 Carbine with realistic accuracy at 100 yards and even 200 yds (not feet). I had one and loved it until the tragic boating accident when it was lost.

[@guaporeturns9472]

I love my M1 Carbine.

[@ripvanwinkle2002]

i had one and didnt love it.. had 2 actually. didnt hate them.. they just werent as good as a true assault rifle. and werent much better than a decent length barreled PCC or SMG ( depending on your budget) i know IAN is in love with them. but i owned them when IAN was still figuring out if legos or lincoln logs were cooler unlike Ian ive also served active duty in combat.. there is no weapon BESIDE a normal pistol id take an M1 carbine over..

[@dubjubs]

Boat companies making a killing these days

[@yrrosimyarin]

I feel like your P320 is getting to be a reasonable take on the concept, but essentially you’re just looking at “a more portable PDW.” It feels so close - there’s got to be a combination of red dot, action, and caliber that would get you hits at 125 yards in something you can put in a hip holster and forget about.

[@itsapittie]

Maybe something in 5.7x28? Most regular pistol bullets lack the ballistic coefficient for long-accuracy but 5.7 might do it.

[@Ramonatho]

7.5 FK BRNO but it is a very expensive round to shoot

[@Gnohio]

a laugo alien in 10mm with a -red- green dot and a stock could be legendary 🤔

[@favne8345]

In Norway pistols are very restricted especially for hunting you can not hunt with a pistol because it has no stock but if you get a pistol with a permanetly attached stock you can use it for hunting

[@Ass_of_Amalek]

in germany they let you pretend that pistols are for hunting.

[@foxmulder7616]

Lol can't have our Norwegian slaves getting uppity now! Especially when we're sending in the Muslim hordes into Scandinavia to replace them!

[@Stevarooni]

Like pistols in the UK...you can get a 1911 _if_ it has a longer barrel and some kind of stock (even if it's just a stiff bit of wire).

[@Kesssuli]

In Finland it is illegal to hunt with pistol. Ending trapped animal is only exception in that rule. And if you attach stock on your existing pistol it had to be remavable whitout tools or risk getting problems because modification which change weapon class. for dummies: weapon class is pistol=Dont hunt with it. Ak/AR for hunting is okay. Just remember use limited capacity mags which are regulated by hunting laws for semi-automatics.

[@Stevarooni]

@@Kesssuli Mag size limit is pretty widespread for hunting. It's true in the U.S., for waterfowl (max 2-shell capacity). In Missouri, you have to use 10-round mags for rifles, when deer hunting.

[@wd4scz579]

The last stocked pistol I can think of that had any "large scale" military issue was the Stechkin in the USSR. A 9x18 select fire child of the Fifties, the Makarov supplanted it. I suspect for all the reasons you mentioned.

[@egomania2792]

Apparently the Spetznas and some pilots found use for them in Syria, with wireframe stocks and suppressors on specially threaded barrels.

[@hunterwayland78]

As military arms, I agree with Ian's analysis that stocked pistols have super niche uses, and in the modern era have been replaced by miniature carbines or smgs. However, I think that in a civilian context, the stocked pistol/pdw that can be holstered and easily concealed has a great deal of practical applications, especially with modern red dot optics. The reality for most people, even in disaster scenarios, is that a carbine draws way too much attention. A stocked pistol being able to be tucked under a shirt or in a small satchel makes a lot of sense if your goal is to be armed better than a handgun but not as conspicuous as a rifle

[@GunFunZS]

I think it makes a lot of sense for a pilots survival kit.

[@davidkermes376]

sounds like a description for fn's ps 90 - or p 90, if you're so inclined.

[@ryand2939]

Stocked Glock 20 would be ideal.

[@tsorevitch2409]

Civilians should not often face a situation when they need to engage in 50m+ firefight. And attaching a stock to your pistol tase a bit to long for most of self defense scenarios.

[@heyhayhay247]

@@tsorevitch2409 He's referring to something like a Flux Raider being deployed from a bag for medium distances like 50-100 yard active-shooter scenario. Outside of Glock, there aren't really any modern pistols that offer a detachable stock like earlier pistols.

[@capnstewy55]

The Mauser was popular because smgs didn't exist yet.

[@ryand2939]

I think it's more because China didn't have much ability to develop their own weapons at that time. SMGs did exist in the 1920s and 30s but they would have needed to have come up with a simplified design to make local manufacture feasible.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

It's hard to argue against a full auto pistol that fires 1000 rounds a minute.

[@jirja3192]

Wasn't it also because of embargo on rifles if I remember correctly?

[@perolavhavik2585]

Could it be that pistols with removable stocks are best suited for well to do civilans who travel a lot in high-risk rural areas going from urban area to urban area? Examples may be a business man traveling in the old West or in 20's and 30's China. This way they had a "carbine" to defend themselves against higway robbers etc., but in towns or cities they could put the stock in the luggage and carry the gun like a normal pistol.

[@Dominic1962]

Nice smoking jacket! Seems like the concept reached its zenith of use in China during the warlord period when they used them as semiauto carbines and also sub machine guns with the schnellfeuer and various Spanish copies. It was just one of those perfect alignment of the planets and stars situations that gave brief rise to such a thing. Personally I think the 7,63x25 cartridge was the best for the concept as well, but has its own drawbacks too.

[@Jansie_NL]

I believe that the War Museum I used to give tours at had a C96 with a wooden plank as a shoulder stock with a leather holster attached to it. The shaped plank seemed thick enough to be able to withstand being banged around a bit.

[@SinistralRifleman]

A stocked pistol like the USW with a properly designed duty holster that auto deployed the stock on the draw would be useful for law enforcement and maybe reduce the amount of mag dumping with low hit ratios. The NFA hinders development of these things because if the common person can’t buy it, it’s harder to justify r&d and production. The NFA hinders sales to LE as well; more paperwork, more record keeping, individual officers can’t purchase, etc. If red dot sights required a $200 transfer tax to own, they would accordingly be less advanced, larger, and not optimized like they are today.

[@Voltaic_Fire]

I've always liked the idea of having a pistol stock that works as a holster and/or ammo reservoir. Being able to keep your scope and long range ammo in your stock/holster really does open up a lot of possibilities.

[@ADRay1999]

Stocked pistols definitely were the predecessor to the Modern PCCs

[@jarink1]

I would disagree. Most PCCs, especially AR-based models, are short rifles rather than stocked pistols. About the only new-ish ones that are stocked pistols would be the ones that are chassis for pistols.

[@lasskinn474]

if we were having this discussion in some other languages than english, it would be different because the base word for what is a submachine gun is a pistol. uzi is therfore a kind of a pistol etc.

[@itsapittie]

@@loquat44-40I’m not sure the M1 carbine qualifies as a pistol caliber carbine. It’s almost in a class by itself.

[@bindingcurve]

@@itsapittie more like if your going to put a stock on it and make it semi auto you should give it a bit more kick?

[@_Scipio__Africanus_]

my cx4 storm really does just feel like a giant pistol sometimes

[@michaelwright2986]

I've never shot a stocked pistol, but my first thought was that sight radius would put a limit on accuracy, when using iron sights. I hadn't realised that it's worse, with the pistol sights being used at the wrong distance.

[@AmaraTheBarbarian]

I think there's an argument to be made that the problems of prior eras on the subject need not apply to the modern era. The old stocks were fragile, sure, the old stocks were wood with an indefinite amount of weak points in the grain, but we have better materials now. Something like a tweak on the VP70 comes to mind, where the stock is not just a stock and holster but also a fire selector. Instead of making it straight blowback use literally any lockup design, the Beretta locking block comes to mind due to the 93R, though the new S&W M&P 5.7 returning the idea of a rotating barrel also seems appropriate. I also know we're married to 9x19 for the foreseeable future, but such a design could easily benefit from a flatter shooting, higher velocity, and higher capacity cartridge like 5.7x28, or if we wanted a larger diameter 7.62x25, maybe even 30 super carry. I choose to believe the stocked pistol is not dead, but dormant, waiting for another time to arise and find a suitable niche as a sidearm that actually provides a benefit.

[@Chilionloppu]

I think that the Vz 61 skorpion is one of the best attempts at a stocked pistol. Small enough not to be in the way with the folding wire stock and with plenty of firepower.

[@BrochachoEnchilada]

In theory, but the stock is extremely uncomfortable and I find it slips often. Something like the C96 is way more comfortable to shoot, and in the case of the C96 the sights are actually not bad

[@davidjernigan7576]

It would be interesting to see an accuracy comparison between an artillery luger and a luger carbine. The stock could be helpful on an actual machine pistol to aid in control

[@owenbevans6062]

Any person killed by a pistol with a stock attached knows that a stocked pistol is not to be under estimated a second time! Too bad they cant can't give me the thumbs up now.

[@Fredo63200]

I can't imagine a soldier happily carrying that big ass wooden holster at his belt

[@Edax_Royeaux]

In the mud of WWI, they might appreciate it though.

[@nemoanon5615]

Practicality and logic will never stand a chance against swag and cool.

[@havareriksen1004]

I think it would be worth a mention the stocked options in the 1960-70, when the VP70 and the APS Stechkin. The Stechkin was issued much like the original stocked artillery Luger, but found itself more popular with special forces. So history repeats itself. These days, it seems the pistol chassis is taking over the niche previously held my pistol stocks. While the stocked pistols seems to have inspired the development and issue of proper submachine guns, the miniature submachine guns like micro Uzi, CZ Scorpion, Mac 9/10/11 and the smallest of current PDWs seems to fill the same niche as a stocked pistol without offering a good solution to offhand shooting like a true pistol.

[@christinepearson5788]

I always looked at stocked pistols not as short carbines but as PDW's. You get a stock to help take your nerves out of the equation to some extent. You're not going to exceed the pistol limitations but when hungry, cold, scared out of your mind: it helps in defending your foxhole or building.

[@wetzel041]

I have tried a few stocked pistols. What I found was that they shot to different points of aim with and without the stocks. The more powerful the gun the more the difference. C-96 Mausers have sights sized and regulated for use with the stock. Shot as pistols they shoot high and right although not enough to miss a man-sized target at usual pistol short ranges. This is inevitable because these guns recoil differently with and without the stock attached.

[@BatCaveOz]

The bullet has already left the barrel prior to recoil being a factor.

[@wetzel041]

@@BatCaveOz Definitely not true. Even an ordinary unstocked pistol will shoot differently with different loads and different bullet weights. In large caliber pistols with significant recoil heavy bullet loads will shoot higher than light bullet loads of the same power. Also heavy recoil pistols will shoot to significantly different points of aim when fired offhand than when fired rested off a bench. Recoil begins well before the bullet leaves the barrel and significantly affects how the gun shoots.

[@nekobyoneko444]

I didn't know that the Bergmann No.5 pistols had stocks, that last pair with the extended barrels are badass. Would love to get a No.5 if I can ever find one. Saw a Hi-power with a stock that the owner had modified sights to be a tight wedge, made it a bit hard to see at arms length but it did feel nicer when shouldered.

[@ET_AYY_LMAO]

Dont know about real fire arms, but I have currently configured my PCP air rifle as a "stocked pistol" and I really dig it, especially with a small red dot. For one its much easier to hold a short weapon steady on target when taking aim free standing, its super easy to carry around, pop off the stock and it fits in a backpack of any size. Of course its a trade off, you get a little less precision and a little less power because of the barrel length, but depending on use case its a good choice.

[@USAACbrat]

I tried 2 different replicas, 1855 58 cal. pistol and stock, 1851 Navy, 44 with a 12 " bbl. the cap is very close to your face. Hard to shoot well. Navy Arms carried both

[@weaselwolf]

I have a Beretta U22 Neos for plinking and it has a carbine kit with a longer barrel and a grip with an integrated stock. It has a rail on the extended barrel so I leave a red dot attached to the barrel. It's mainly just fun

[@KentuckyAk101guy]

I love them but my opinion on the matter in a military context is they were great when they were relevant which was really WW1 because a stocked C96 or Luger P.08 was so much better when going over the top to raid a trench then even a Kar 98az. Once the mp18 came out they were immediately obsolescent. I don’t think they are relevant today either, because of submachine guns and guns like the AKs-74u and Mk18 (I think thats the designation lol) that have a more powerful cartridge and short profile.

[@cymond]

OTOH, most people can't get a true submachine gun, only a semi-auto clone. Comparing a semi-auto "SMG" to a stocked pistol, the "SMG" has a little better ergonomics, while the stocked pistol is a little smaller and lighter.

[@ripvanwinkle2002]

yea except this isnt a new season of COD and real people dont have access to submachine guns and short barrelled assault rifles. pistols however..

[@KentuckyAk101guy]

@@cymond Apologies for not being clear I was referring to them in a military context. For a civilian I can see some positive attributes for them so you are correct. This is just my opinion but I still think sbr’s are better (other then having to register them). 9mm will actually go through more then a 5.56 or 5.45 will due to bullet mass. While not as compact as a stocked pistol, you have a more stable platform and better cartridge. I do understand that you cannot always carry or even have a sbr style of rifle in all places so until that verdict is overturned as I hope it will be. I can still understand the merits of a stocked pistol in civilian hands. As for civilian smg’s I’m personally not a fan as you probably guessed I’m more of a AKs74u style type of guy so I prefer them over even civilian smg’s

[@KentuckyAk101guy]

@@ripvanwinkle2002 no need to be that way. As I told the other commenter I apologize for not being clear and that I was referring to them in a specifically military context. However I still stand by my opinion that sbr’s even civilian sbr’s such as Aks74u or mk18 are better then stocked pistols (as you have a more stable platform and better round in terms of a home defense situation) both of which you have to register. I do understand the point that you cannot always carry a sbr type rifle around and for the modern civilian market a stocked pistol does have its merits.

[@-John-Doe-]

They’re great. Chassis systems are a joke. Just make a holster that functions as a brace/stock/chassis today.

[@Rumblestrip]

Pietta and Uberti do have stocks for cap and ball revolvers as well Ian. I have one and i have setup a few pistols to use it... I have a decent collection of colt repros. In general, i agree. With the 1851s in particular, its hard to get my eye low enough to get the colt sights. The stock just doesnt bring the gun up high enough. Ive used it a few times and it helps, but i really need a pistol I've shot quite a bit as its basically reactive shooting.

[@foxmulder7616]

I want one of those long barrel umberti carbines!

[@tacticalmanatee]

if not for the NFA I'd definitely have some stuff along the lines of the FLUX Chassis or B&T USW. Not sure I'd have much use for the more traditional type of stocked pistol, though. But if not for the NFA, something in the form of the MP7 is better in just about every way over a stocked pistol. The PDW is really the evolution of the old stocked pistol in many ways.

[@craigthescott5074]

The Mauser broom handle is greatly improved with a stock attached do to is really high bore axis. The stock greatly improves the barrel whip.

[@jamesclark6427]

I fired the B&T USW not long ago, which is essentially a shoulder stock handgun. I really wasn't expecting much, but I was pleasantly surprised. There's definitely something to it. I was able to easily drill tight little groups at 25 yards with the optical sight on it. More so than an unstocked pistol. So it surely is something. But ultimately it doesn't seem to offer a substantial advantage over having a high level of skill with a conventional handgun. Which is far more portable and maneuverable. Definitely really cool and fun though. 🙂

[@tylerwilliams6022]

Joe Kidd starring Clint Eastwood had some cool usage of a stocked C96. The movie also featured other interesting firearm choices. A scoped Canadian Ross Rifle, Remington Keene Frontier 45-70, a Savage 99. It's actually a decent movie as well even if you aren't a gun nerd, but it's all the better if you are!

[@EnigmaNL]

You should make a video where you compare shooting a pistol on the range with and without a stock attached.

[@ScooterFXRS]

I'm definitely in Ian's camp. Your only going to get so much out of a pistol barrel, sights and ammo aside. Hence the carbine and let us remember the groans and whines of the M1 carbine when used outside it's role as a defensive arm, being better than having a pistol.

[@RCZM64]

Many of those early XXth century stocked pistols were also full auto capable. In that case, the stock is a necesity. But the SMG made them obsolete, since their intended uses overlap. and SMGs tend to be better at all particular cases, being also simpler and more rugged. At least for military service. Then different laws all around made the full-auto pistols (and other weapons) not available to the general populace. In civilian use, maybe a bodyguard with a selective fire pistol, and a small stock in case full auto is needed for short range engagements (inside buildings, vehicles, etc), would be the appropiate scenario for it. But very niche uses, nonetheless.

[@Zoraxon]

I feel like the biggest downside of modern contexts (namely civilian) of these is the intent pistol caliber. Concealment of a carbine, effectives of a pistol. It'd be nominally easier to hand a stocked pistol with a dot to someone (wife, friend, brother, etc) who may not have as much handgun experience and have them be a bit better with it, but at that point why not just get a little carbine breakdown? Three points of contact are nice but for the effort, I'm not going to lug around a backpack or similar to conceal it just to get 9mm when i could use .300 blk, heavy 5.56, or even (and in my schizo use case train of thought) 7.62x39 in a broken down backpack pistol. All that being said, I still think they're cool and I want one someday.

[@HellbirdIV]

I think the proper modern incarnation of the stocked pistol is the Submachine Gun, PDW or PCC with a folding or collapsing stock. Guns like the vz. 61 Skorpion, Uzi or the MP7 especially fit the bill - they can be carried with relative ease in pistol configuration, pulled out and fired pretty readily with either a modern two-handed pistol stance or even fired in an early 20th century 1-handed stance, while having an integral stock that can be easily set up even in the heat of combat for accurate rifle-style shooting. Is a true pistol smaller and more easily concealable? Sure, but that's always the compromise you make, and carrying a separate stock for your pistol is probably just as conspicuous as carrying a larger gun with a collapsed stock anyway.

[@messmeister92]

There’s another practical reason that was sort of touched on, and that is size. Pistols are a close-quarters firearm that, ideally, can be quickly drawn, maneuvered and fired at close range. Add a stock to that weapon and now you’re doubling or tripling its size, making it harder to do all those things.

[@RaeSyngKane]

I think there are three major use cases: 1. They predate many other Semi/full auto designs and many had detachable magazines when rifle calibers either didn’t exist in quantity or were prohibitively heavy. 2. They make limited ammunition supplies go further. Competition shooting isn’t a great indicator of the stresses involved from being shot back at. Mechanically, any movement while firing it as a pistol will be significantly amplified compared to the stocked pistol. Less wild shots makes limited ammo go further. For revolvers this also means less wasted time reloading. 3. They still allowed the pistol to be used as a pistol. If you’re a civilian or officer in the frontier you’ll be transitioning between the outdoors and town fairly often. You still want to pack heat in town but a rifle or shotgun can be unwieldy and obvious. Detaching the stock as using the pistol makes it more portable and concealable again. 4. They were a cheap performance boost for a cheap firearm option. Pistols are cheaper to make or buy so if you have limited funds the stock is just a little bit extra to get a little semiauto rifle performance out of a single gun. I think for WW1 Germans and for the Chinese forces 1 and 4 fits while Australian use encapsulates 1,2,3, and 4. In most other scenarios you had better options. In the American west you had lever guns able to take the semiauto rifle position so they just had multiple guns. For the majority of militaries they had the funds to provide leftover stocks of 2nd line rifles for non-pistol related use. Modern day the submachine gun with folding stock takes up almost all of the same niches with the slight exception of the ability to convert to an even smaller package. Which is even more niche than before. The stipulation I’d make is that machine pistols without stocks are significantly worse than those with.

[@VodkamanBR]

The main reason to use a pistol is how compact it is, adding a stock and long barrel removes that main feature, might as well go with a carbine or SMG that are far more effective for about the same size and a little more weight.

[@blueeyeswhitedragon9839]

It all depends on the purpose that the stocked pistol was designed. The "Broomhandle" Mauser was used to clear trenches and supposedly assisted in rapidly eliminating enemy as you came upon the enemy's trench. For long range shooting...l think there was also some benefit. The 7.63x25mm round was pretty "hot" and could reach out to 100 meters...this is where the detachable stock shined. I had a 1896 Mauser in original caliber and l purchased an excellent modern full holster/stock and it was a joy to shoot ( except for the occasional hammer pinch).

[@alexsawicki]

I do not believe that the problem with 9mm accuracy at longer ranges is entirely because the ammo manufacturers aren't making accurate/consistent ammo out to longer ranges. There's also the big physics problem of crossing the supersonic/transonic/subsonic barrier. When transitioning between supersonic and subsonic, shockwaves in the air behave weirdly... Which can easily throw off the trajectory of any projectile. I'll admit I had to look it up, but: it looks like most 9mm ammo is crossing that line at between 25 yards and 100 yards. Very few loads of 9mm are still supersonic past 100 yards. And this is very dependent on the specific ammo. 9mm is barely supersonic to begin with. Of course, this transition will take place over a certain time... Explaining why some 9mm ammo might be consistent past 100 yards. That'd also change with a longer barreled gun as well. To compare, 5.56 is supersonic past 500 yards. Some .308 loads are supersonic past 1000 yards (though, that seems to be exception). That data seems to match up with the "effective range" of all 3 cartridges. I suspect that you'd see a similar trend with other cartridges as well: The transition point between supersonic and subsonic (plus a few yards) is roughly the effective range. Subsonic ammunition just has a lower effective range to begin with. Lower starting velocity means lower initial energy and a more pronounced "drop" of the bullet.

[@johnlindly8509]

I have a WW2 Finnish contract Hi-power with an original stock (and holster) and it is remarkably easy and comfortable to use. Maybe an anomaly, I don’t know?

[@kneyork9930]

Hello, I agree with all your comments in general. However, my Grandfather was an officer in the Canadian Army in WW1, he captured a Luger early in the war, and carried it shoulder-stocked all through the war, and in almost all the major battles, including Vimy Ridge. He cut out the back of the holster, and carried it with the shoulder stock on/attached to it that way. My point being he thought it was a pretty good set up for leading his men "over the top" and charging enemy trenches. Of course, being an officer his requirements for a weapon were a bit different, but still, he engaged in a lot of combat with a shoulder stocked Luger, and staked his life on it. ! He was wounded once, and gassed once. I have that Luger and holster, (and one magazine serial numbered to the pistol) however when my grandmother brought it and his shotgun to us after he passed away, The U.S. border people confiscated the stock. My father told me that the stock had a different serial number on it, so he must have picked it up after capturing the Luger. I suspect it was an artillery or navel Luger stock. I did see it once or twice in Canada, it was the flat-board type of stock. The pistol is a DWM/1915 with German unit/weapon numbers on the grip. Okay, just saying, some considered it (shoulder stocked Luger) a useful weapon in combat. If you are ever in Eastern Washington state, drop by and do a video on it. :) It is dripping with "provenance".

[@brianzimmerman4837]

I really think the stocked pistol concept really only works in a civilian context. Specifically as a bagged hold out gun/emergency survival gun, or in security roles where having a rifle/carbine isn't feasible. The military has a tendency to push things well outside their box to the point where they become inferior to other options.

[@Sparten459]

I recently got my hands on a mk1 inglis hi power with a stock holster. It’s so stupid, but I love it. I was taking potshots at a 440m target at our local range, was getting close enough to keep a persons head down, but didn’t hit.

[@jonathanenglish9146]

I SBR'ed a Glock 22 several years ago. I like it but most stocks I've tried are awful. Fiber optic sights work pretty good, but like you mentioned, RMR sighted slides work much better. I also use a folding forward grip to make sure my hand is out of the way, but then I cannot holster it. Using it as an optimized pistol is acceptable, but it will never replace a rifle or carbine. I also like the option of multiple capacity magazines and calibers.

[@cymond]

Which stocks were the worst? Which are the best? I'm waiting on my SBR tax stamp on a Glock 17

[@jonathanenglish9146]

The Roni stocks are crap and FAB customer service sucks. I also tried this weird fist looking clamp-on stock adaptor that is also crap. Oddly enough the old style FAB stock that mounts in the grip hole behind the magazine hole works fairly well.@@cymond

[@cymond]

@@jonathanenglish9146 The old FAB telescoping stock? I've been considering the FAB Cobra folding stock. If that "fist" one was the ENDO Glock adapter, then I'm familiar with it. I had one with an arm brace, but it really sucked. It was too bulky to leave on, and too slow to attach/detach to be practical.

[@jonathanenglish9146]

It's actually a TAC Limited stock made in Israel for gen 3 Glocks and an FGG-S folding grip also made in Israel.@@cymond

[@JeffreyWarrenYoung-yy1uj]

I fired 3 rds & broke but going 5o get a Glock M21 16" barrel chambered 45acp/45Super & 460 Rowland Plus shoulder stock with the inserts to the M21 grips I may put an EE R 1 to 4 powered Scope I really LOVE your channels I have LOVED firearms since I was 3 or 4 '68 Riots my grandfather 5:00 Sam bought a 20 guage & my brother who was/is 11 years older. gauge He had taken it down forearm barrels & action but couldn't get it back together. I rode in the back seat & put it back together...My grandfather was mad ??? You must have broke it ?!?!? Got to Van Buran's Gunship he handed to Vanburoin No he did it right. How did you know how to put it together...I saw "the Walls" moved when you moved the breakdown action...That made a HUGE impact with me I have been chasing to become a RKI Peter Kokalis of SOF Small Arms Review etc etc ETC... I look forward to enhance my RKI ism ness Thx Jeffrey Warren Young

[@JohnWaldron-cm7ce]

Good lord, have you heard of grammar and punctuation?-John in Texas

[@sergeikuranov7033]

I would say nowdays 7.5 FK BRNO with a red-dot sight is a perfect candidate to be equipped with stock.

[@bindingcurve]

They developed one, but I bet it was an awkward mess. Funny how the video demonstrating it is CGI.

[@sergeikuranov7033]

@@bindingcurve Yeah, it looks like some wobbly wire crap. I was thinking about some old-school holster-stock probably from carbon instead of wood so it could be both sturdy and light.

[@bindingcurve]

@@sergeikuranov7033 just get a carbine.

[@sergeikuranov7033]

@@bindingcurve If I could, I would)

[@bellakaldera3305]

I wanted a shoulder stock for my long barreled '58 Remington "Buffalo", Taylor arms makes one but it costs more than I paid for the pistol...so I made one myself, it works great, I can smack the gongs at 40 yards!

[@kolideoskope]

The design of the stock seems to make a big difference. A detachable stock doesn't alter the base gun too much, but you now have to keep track of a separate item that's slow and clunky to equip. A folding or collapsing stock is always on the gun, but can make it clunkier when folded and prevent holstering, also the cheek weld usually suffers.

[@justincreamer]

The ideal form factor for a stocked pistol, in my mind, is a C96 in 9X25 Export with a non holster solid stock, to be given to trench raiders, indoor security or other armed close environment fighters, maybe to stagecoach drivers or early truck drivers. That'd maybe see some action in trenches and against bank robbers, but this is before the era of building to building fighting and the advent of covert special forces. And the second the M1 Carbine came to market, it would be rendered impractical and obsolescent.

[@mvtco]

One thing that isn't addressed when people think about stocked historic pistols is that they were pretty much the only time you would use two hands to fire a pistol. Pistols were a weapon to use when your other hand is busy doing something else so a rifle would be impractical. As late as WW2, two handed pistol shooting was only taught if firing from the prone position. Not everyone can be easily taught to shoot a pistol one handed, but it is fairly easy to teach someone to shoot a stocked weapon. I've got three original stocked pistols in my collection and using the stock vs shooting them offhand does certainly close your groups up on target. To use the stock means using both hands though, and if going into battle, I'd rather have an actual rifle than a 9mm or 7.62 pistol regardless of the HiPower having a 13rd mag.

[@kneyork9930]

I think that more of the old timers were wise to the two hand hold then we realize today. True, one handed was the "proper form", but not everyone, then or now, follows the "rules".

[@fruitbat4429]

I notice the stocked Browning was one fitted with a tangent sight. Which happens to go up to 500 yards. Even with a shoulder stock, that pretty much defines optimism . . .

[@salvadorsempere1701]

Not really, if you thought that 1 hit per 100 rounds is a perfectly fine rating. And in a military context 1% of hits it´s really good. Think about a battery of field artillery being armed with Artillery Lugers, and being attacked by an enemy force. If the 100 men of the battery each fire 2 magazines, that´s 1.600 rounds. A 1% accuracy it´s 16 enemies in the ground. Most possiblye good enough to break the attack in less than a minute

[@fruitbat4429]

@@salvadorsempere1701 Hmmm . . . not really convinced that a pistol with a shoulder stock, even in volley fire, is going to be able deliver effective fire out to 500yds. Heck, WW2 placed the limit of effective fire with a full powered rifle at 400yds.

[@1zanglang]

Another example is the soviet Stechkin automatic pistol, based on 9 mm Makarov cartridge. Interesting fact, SADU factory in Romania, produced a modified clone of it, called Pistol model 1998. But it is a 9 mm Parabellum automatic pistol. The Romanian engineers dumped the stock and designed a notch on the front of the frame in which a spare 20 round magazine can be fitted, upside down and function as a foregrip, ensuring more stability when firing full auto. The pistol was nicknamed Dracula, and was issued to Romanian antiterrorist units and secret service.

[@riu.1180]

Would you call these the grandfathers of the modern PDW concept? Seems like they may not have been big in their day but look at the Flux Raider and Micro Roni getting more popular as the stocks get stronger.

[@petesheppard1709]

Red dots and Kydex stock/holsters could make for a plausible modern configuration

[@jeromethiel4323]

I really like the FN-P90. It's crazy easy to control, comfortable to shoot, and pretty darn accurate. Having your hands out at the end of the rifle, and a shoulder POC, gives you a lot of control, especially over muzzle climb (due to the hands being out near the muzzle). I kind of think of the P90 as a shoulder stocked pistol, as it is pistol caliber, and it does have a relatively short barrel. I know it's not classified as such, but i think of it as such.

[@Unus_Annus_]

I like that it ejects out the bottom. As a lefty It’s very nice to have a bull pup that I can shoot without worrying about getting brass in my face

[@jeromethiel4323]

@@Unus_Annus_ Yeah, i really like that space gun! ^-^ I would love to own a full auto version, but i am not made of money, and it'd be a toy. A very FUN toy, but a toy nonetheless.

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

red dot + screw on barrel extender (pushing the five seven, barrel from 4.8) out to 16", with a stock attachment. I can see being able to shift an FN Five seven from a pistol, to a carbine... given the five seven's abilities... Would actually turn the five seven into an ok varmint rifle, or multi-purpose survival weapon.

[@CameronMcCreary]

Take a look at a stocked Browning P35 full auto machine pistol. They are very fast and somewhat controllable.

[@johndee2990]

Ok, so I'm a Canadian who going to become a Gunsmith Regardless. We do have workarounds to our Laws that are kinda neat sometimes (Coach guns is one of them) So, ironically, Pistols are harder to get than Coach Guns because of the RPAL. Anyway, I had lightbulb moment, Permanently Stocked Shotgun Revolver with 12-18 inch Barrel. Was thinking it might be 3-5 shots depending on Gauge. Might have Cross Caliber Porting Like the 410/45 Judge. Brass Embellished Beads or Fiber Night Sights. Maybe I got my head in the Clouds but if the Stock is Permanent then I think it "technically" isn't a Pistol and for Northwest Canada that's just what we want.

[@aaronskuse2207]

I think an excellent example of a proper, legitimate convertible handgun was the HK VP-70, despite its obvious flaws. Use as a handgun for standard semi auto, slap on the stock and now you have a full auto submachine gun.

[@frankbarnwell____]

Before you start. I'd think in general it depends on who and what the firearm's application. A hunter that wants or needs extra stability; yes. Being able to shoot accurately and safely benefits anyone in-range.

[@alimanski7941]

I've seen plenty of security personnel (in places like train stations) using modern stocked Glocks

[@egomania2792]

I was immediately reminded of this. On my last Trip to Israel, many security guards in the train stations carried stocked pistols, or rather thos Glock conversions. I think I saw a Flux Kit as well, but only brief and from afar, so I'm not sure.

[@alimanski7941]

@@egomania2792 yep, exactly those, I live in Israel :)

[@Voltaic_Fire]

I wonder if the pistol stock idea would work better with something like a FiveSeven or some compact autopistol variant. The 5.7 round is very aerodynamic, armour piercing, and retains its accuracy over longer distances. More than that the round is compact and doesn't produce too much recoil, meaning you can store more per magazine and a whole bunch more in a hollow stock along with attachments, and the recoil isn't going to break the hollow stock, especially if it is made from a strong and light polymer. Correct me if you think otherwise, I won't get pissy, but I really do think a FiveSeven with a stock and maybe a suppressor would work better than any previous iteration of the idea.

[@mace8873]

Well, I guess sometimes shoulder stocks work, and sometimes they don't. I have Weihrauch HW75 which is an air pistol intended for competition shooting at 6-10m, I put a collapsible folding stock on it, along with a 2-6 power rifle scope, and I can shoot sub 10mm groups with it at 18m, soooo...

[@chrishesotian1654]

i largely agree. if im holding anything against my shoulder, i want it shooting rifle or shotgun ammo. Stocks completely inhibit the two advantages that pistols have over every other type of firearm, and that is portability and concealability.

[@kentallard8852]

Navy SEALS used a modified S&W Model 39 the mk 22 mod 0 called the "hushy puppy" in Vietnam, it came with a silencer AND A STOCK and was used for sentry and guard dog removal

[@greghardy9476]

I own a replica 1860 Army with a shoulder stock and I have to agree with Ian on this. It is actually LESS accurate with the stock although it DOES look cooler!

[@arussianspy3114]

I think that it depends on the era. If you had to charge or defend a trench or fight house to house in a city during the world wars a submachine gun would be ideal but I’d rather have a stocked pistol than a rifle. If you were a police officer before duty rifles became common I think a stock might be a nice option to have. These days there’s not really anything that a pistol offers compared to a short rifle or submachine gun.

[@moosemaimer]

Sportsmans Guide had a kit for sale at one point of a 16" barrel and a stock for the 1911, with a big warning that you were not to install the stock unless you had changed the barrel.

[@normanmccollum6082]

Good vid! I'm a HUGE fan of stocked pistols, and no I do not believe I ever claimed they are as good as SMGs (I suspect the Schnellfeuer C96 variant with 20-round detachable mags and select-fire full-auto capabilities was likely very uncontrollable, probably comparable or even worse than the M2 Carbine), I can't imagine I claimed a stocked Hi Power can be as effective a shoulder-fire platform as something like an M1 Carbine which seems quite capable for 200m and in basically ideally or near-ideal conditions seems to be able to even manage at least 300yd (280m or so). So like Ian said, it's best to keep conceptualizations of the concept within a reasonable realm and not let your imagination run too rampant, though I do believe the practical merit of the concept still exists. It IS an improvement over 'just a pistol,' it improves the ability to provide faster follow-up shots and also general stability/accuracy due to that third point of contact (both hands on firearm, plus the stock in the shoulder), and arguably it would also improve reliability. Do you think you could 'limp wrist' a pistol with a shoulder stock, even if you tried? In fact even if you shot it at arm's length, the mere presence of the added weight of the shoulder stock would cause the firearm itself to physically recoil less resulting in more resistance for the working bits helping to ensure full extraction during the rearward cycling of the bolt/slide/action and the assurance of full travel provides maximum opportunity for the recoil spring to gain as much momentum as possible to slam that next round in the chamber with authority. So yeah, design aspects such as stock fragility can totally render the concept null and void, maybe even in some tragic cases with a mere inconvenient and badly-angled accidental drop on concrete or something, or accidentally falling with your weight on the stock without a pistol in it to possibly provide some extra structure by being filled with steel. Here, let me posit it this way... now the iron sights element, I very likely had overlooked that element. I just had to sit there, hold an imaginary pistol in my hands as I pretended to aim it, trying to visualize it, and then adjusted my shooting posture so that it felt like what a stocked pistol might feel and I didn't even have to fully 'seat the stock into my shoulder' as it were before my arms just went limp and I was like "Yup... definitely got a point there..." so it is a little bit personally annoying but I had overlooked that aspect of the concept. I have lots of hands-on experience with firearms and likely over 10,000 rounds in total fired on various different designs and with surely over a dozen different types of ammo... did I mention I am tragically not an American? Yeah mix that in with the context, I'm one SERIOUSLY lucky individual even though I've no Police/Military experience. So if the fragility element was as minimized as possible via perhaps carrying the pistol in a holster and then basically having the full-sized and solid wooden stock on your other hip or underneath your other arm if it's that style of holster, then the biggest consideration to make would be what the sights should be like. It may well be that either they'll be so small that they'll be hard to use at arm's length but then while in stocked configuration will be small enough to where it's not trying to center a brick in an empty swimming pool. OR, somehow incorporating two different sets of sights available but DO NOT ask me how THAT would work because I DO NOT KNOW lmao But what I DO know is that it makes me wish I had the means to experiment... I'd be Brandon fucking Herrera if I had the money and the hair and that beard and American citizenship... However, even if the standard irons were used, ignoring that the red dot concept these days helps to deal with the issue quite well by the sounds of it, it DOES inherently make the pistol easier to use and more effective and arguably slightly more reliable and perhaps also more easy and reliable to operate if wounded, and as mentioned in the video even with the inherent limitations on accuracy due to ammunition and perhaps also in some cases due to the design as well (barrel length limitations also undoubtedly having an influence) it still makes the platform much more viable at ranges that would raise Elijsha Dickens' eyebrows. Take 40yd and maybe triple it. So in summary, in my mind, the stocked pistol is a viable and reasonable and sensible and logical and POTENTIALLY practical (with a good stock design) niche that stands as intermediary between pistol, and dedicated PDW carbine which is itself often times an intermediary before a dedicated purpose-built SMG meant for action with compactness not so much in mind, and of course extremely compact assault rifles like the AKS-74U is somewhere around that zone and then there's full-sized assault rifles which are basically the norm of the day in the Military Forces of today although the Sig Spear thing, the XM7 or whatever it's called, is a brand new concept/experiment that may have its trial by fire someday to see if it is viable or if it's just a flash in the pan that will be abandoned (or could reign in a new era in which modern body armor starts to be viewed as just dead weight rather than helpful when faced by purpose-built armor-defeating ammo/platforms in the hands of front-line soldiers on a not-so-friendly mission), and at some point you go full on meme and you're hunting engine blocks with an M107 Barrett or reaching out to 2km+ with a .338 Lapua Magnum or you're raining down 'fuck you' in the general vicinity of a location with one of those death birds soaring in the stratosphere of space... or something. Oh and drones with grenades... that's a thing now. Just gotta sit and wait to see the first instance of BLM and/or Antifa making their own thoroughly illegal home-built Molotov drone to carry on their terrorist activities with... though thankfully I don't think they're smart enough to figure out how to make that work without outright destroying literally their entire home by accident. I don't think the left realizes just how fucked they'd be if they turn this Culture War hot. Getting away with riots with CNN and MSNBC and CBC and BBC backing them as 'fiery but mostly peaceful' bullshit, it will soften many and think that America has no teeth. Then you read about Coeur d'Alene or however it's spelled, in 2020, where armed civilians legally came out for hours to ensure that riots did not descend on their streets. And you are reminded of why America needs to keep their firearms to keep evil in check, because if you let it, it will run amok and destroy your neighborhood. The leftist evil desires to sew destruction... don't let it. So come, with a friendly smile, but lawfully armed to the greatest degree you can be. I hope to be in America as soon as I can afford it... in Canada it's illegal to carry pepper spray unless it's bear mace in the woods. This is not how I want to live, and I'd rather die than stay here. Liberty or death. I understand what that means now, America.

[@jimmogan5713]

One thing not mentioned reference to the C96 was the use by the Irish Volunteers and its iconic role at the Battle of Mount Street Bridge, 26 April 1916, during the Easter Rising. Lt. Michael Malone received Cmdt Eamonn De Valera's C96, stock holster and ammunition in lieu of reinforcements to hold the Mount Street Bridge. What Mick Malone did with that stock fitted C96 became a legend; the weapon is immortalized in the National Museum of Ireland. Another stock fitted C96 played a key role in Vice Cmdt Cathal Brugha's famous one man stand holding the staircase of the Nurses Home of the South Dublin Union. The C96 remained in prominence throughout the Irish War of Independence. But it wasn't the only stock fitted pistol used by the Irish Volunteers. If you note Dan Breen's wedding photo, you'll see his artillery model Luger, stock attached, resting across his and his bride's lap. Incidentally, his bride was Brigid Malone, sister of Mick Malone of Mount Street Bridge fame.

[@DUDA-__-]

I wonder if you could benefit from the recoil mittigation/redirection effect today. Attaching a stock as high as possible and in line with the barrel on a Pistol with a fairly big cartridge. Along the lines of .357 or bigger. Having a heavy hitting pistol which you can shoot as fast or faster than a 9mm.

[@jimmogan5713]

Image...you are in the upstairs washroom of a house you've been ordered to hold. Your mate is downstairs with a Lee-Metford he smuggled out of Canada. Coming up the road directly at you is a full strength infantry battalion, bayonets fixed. And you? In lieu of reinforcements, your battalion Commandant has given you his own C96 with shoulder stock and a case of ammunition. What is about to happen is the Battle of Mount Street Bridge. The young carpenter turned Volunteer officer was Michael Malone. He held that house for 6 hours and reaked havoc on that first battalion and the one that followed it into the inferno followed with that C96 (a treasured relic in Ireland's National Museum). The C96, unloved elsewhere, has legendary status in Ireland's War of Independence. And the Artillery Luger? The much feared Dan Breen (after Michael Collins, the most wanted man in Ireland by the British) loved his so much its laying across his and his brides' lap in their wedding picture. And, ironically, his bride was Michael Malone's sister Brigid. Perhaps a Weapons of the Easter Rising/Irish War of Indepence episode might be in order?

[@crowsbridge]

I think there is a use-case for them outside of military use. Especially, the modern types that use fixed red-dots, such as the usw-g.