The Chauchat wasn't an automatic rifle it was a specially made gun for jam clearing practice
@CorvusCorone685 жыл бұрын
was that a joke? if so HA good one
@janlabij73025 жыл бұрын
Not true. The Chauchat worked fine with the rimmed Lebel case. Not so with the rimless '06 case.
@sheilaolfieway18855 жыл бұрын
and to make a still.
@Kentucky_Caveman4 жыл бұрын
@@janlabij7302r/woooosh?
@kwilo4 жыл бұрын
@Noah Sanders you have the right idea, but it’s a bit of a stretch
@mcalsip6 жыл бұрын
There is a common misunderstanding about .50BMG regarding use against personnel. The urban legend is that it is a war crime to shoot personnel with it because it is intended for anti-material/anti-armor purposes. One of the common things you would hear old vets say is, "Aim for their metal belt buckles because they count as armor/equipment." This is actually not true though. There is nothing characteristically about .50BMG that would prevent it from legal use against a person according to The Hague. Some speculate that the origin of such legends stem from Infantry command instructing soldiers to not use .50BMG on personnel in order to conserve limited ammunition supplies during Vietnam. It would suck to run out of anti-material ammo in deep combat and then have to deal with a fortified emplacement. Of course, if you stop and actually think about it, the legend doesn't make any practical sense at all anyway. Are we meant to believe that use of mortars, conventional artillery shells and air dropped bombs are totally fine on personnel but .50BMG is just too much maiming and undue injury?
@gp556by456 жыл бұрын
Also to add on that misnomer; people will often state that its "against the Geneva Conventions" to do so. The Geneva Convention deals with the treatment of persons, not the use of weapons during war. The Hague Conventions were the treaties that deal with the weapons used during war time.
@mcalsip6 жыл бұрын
Good call out.
@jameshealy45946 жыл бұрын
Excellent points, but doesn't the Hague ban expanding bullets while allowing all the aforementioned deadly toys such as artillery etc (not to mention nuclear arsenals)? Always seemed ludicrous to me. I think you're probably right, with a bit of the old "stop using expensive rounds when the cheap ones work" mentality.
@mcalsip6 жыл бұрын
You are correct, the Hague does ban the use of expanding bullets except for military police and special missions. However, .50BMG is most often used today in its FMJ Ball form, meaning it is not designed to expand and fits the requirements of standard infantry ammuniton.
@jameshealy45946 жыл бұрын
Sorry, I do understand that it is predominantly FMJ being used, with a smattering of exotic rounds, I just put that badly. What I meant was in relation to the final sentence of your original post. It would be possible for somebody to think that if expanding bullets are banned, then logically it may follow that something as large and powerful as .50BMG would also be banned.
@fenderjazzface9993 жыл бұрын
Fun fact about the German MG 08/15 (mentioned at 23:35): it was so common that "08/15" now means "average, uninteresting, bland" in German and I still hear that phrase a lot here in Vienna! Most people aren't aware of where it originally came from though.
@mountainmamma1643 Жыл бұрын
Doubt it
@mountainmamma1643 Жыл бұрын
X to doubt
@mountainmamma1643 Жыл бұрын
Double doubt
@360bunker9 Жыл бұрын
@@mountainmamma1643 look it up its actually true
@derkanal1908 Жыл бұрын
@@mountainmamma1643 I'm german and can confirm
@kseverens3 жыл бұрын
Americans: "Acuracy is more important then volume of fire for suppression" Germans: * Angry MG42 noises *
@rickevans39593 жыл бұрын
155 howitzers lob nukes a little accuracy is a nice bonus. For dam busting
@elvtars88133 жыл бұрын
-- Said the American as he was leaving his A10 warthog
@klunkeflunken3 жыл бұрын
The m60 is horribly inaccurate compared to the mg3 though
@TheBucketSkill3 жыл бұрын
@@klunkeflunken Well fuck the M60. The proper comparison is M1919 Browning 30 cal machine gun to the MG42.
@theimmortal47182 жыл бұрын
@@klunkeflunken What? That's not true at all. We always had ammo left after qualification because it was so easy to hit with. The M60 was accurate. They just were worn out by the 90s with so many rounds through them. They're still great guns, today, in the M60E6.
ravemastaj I'm gonna have to have a talk with the Ministry to approve that comment
@j.marston6 жыл бұрын
Dammit, I kind of expected the Spanish Inquisition.
@sneakycactus88156 жыл бұрын
John Slavin LSW - LONG STICKY WANG
@jeffhumphreys86426 жыл бұрын
"Guns only fired effectively from their mounts" *John Basilone intensifies*
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
My definitions are for normal humans, not uber-badasses. :)
@greg_42015 жыл бұрын
*British Army intensifies*
@mrdrprof995 жыл бұрын
*Jesse Ventura has joined the chat
@greg_42015 жыл бұрын
@ how no?
@tracybeme15975 жыл бұрын
The panthers used wcmg well up into the 80's, for good reason. Lighten the block and.... waalaah particimo. Plus a mg carrier can run faster than any uber-baddass.
@Dakktyrel6 жыл бұрын
1919A6 ... the heavy light machine gun.
@havoc37426 жыл бұрын
Eh, it's all relative
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
It's like they looked at the MG08/15 and thought, Yes! We need more of that! :)
@RaeSyngKane6 жыл бұрын
I like to believe that they had a good laugh at the ordinance department passing the idea around as a joke without thinking that upper management would take it seriously.
@51WCDodge6 жыл бұрын
It answered the question-How can we throw a lot of lead at the opposition as quickly as possible with what we've got. Surley that comes under the heading of Improvised or Craft built? :-~)
@wrtltable6 жыл бұрын
Maxim-Tokarev also made looking at 08/15
@ChaplainPhantasm3 жыл бұрын
PKM is Ivan's favorite conceal carry.
@bronxkal92753 жыл бұрын
For the God sake....how ivan can conceal the PKM?
@crazycoffee2 жыл бұрын
@@bronxkal9275 lots of vodka and gulag time
@ibarelyupload76486 ай бұрын
the M61 Vulcan is his favourite home defence weapon
@patrikcath10253 жыл бұрын
I'd consider the outliers to be MMGs. They can be used both as HMGs and vaguely like LMGs, and don't necessarily have the upsides or downsides of either.
@johnoneil91886 жыл бұрын
It really is good to be explained all the little details in that jungle of abbreviations and differences that people normally are not aware of.
@vizzy614 жыл бұрын
?
@Treblaine6 жыл бұрын
Which begs the age old question: is a mortar small arms or artillery?
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
Mortars are light weapons or heavy weapons, depending on caliber. The cutoff is typically around 120mm, but subject to debate.
@dutchman22056 жыл бұрын
Well, in the Dutch army, every weapon barrel in caliber above 40mm is called artillery. So, basicly every mortar is a heavy weapon. And everything above 120mm is called heavy artillery.
@Treblaine6 жыл бұрын
Dutchman 2. Username checks out.
@GCJT19496 жыл бұрын
US Army regards 90mm and 106mm Recoiless, 60mm, 80mm, and 4.2 Inch Mortars as Small Arms. Geoff Who was a 45B20 in the 1970s.
@SeraphimARcanus6 жыл бұрын
The Mexican army regards everything above 80 mm as artillery and is operated by that branch. That left infantry branch without recoilless rifles.
@jonathanhill86916 жыл бұрын
ian is a proper bloke. everything always looks very neat and squared away in the background but covered in about 5 inches of dust. just like my house!
@ernestolorenzobornales1885 жыл бұрын
obligatory "LMG, MOUNTED AND LOADED"
@awesomesauce6684 жыл бұрын
69th like
@awesomesauce6684 жыл бұрын
WALL CAN WITHSTAND ASSAULT
@taylorliu90933 жыл бұрын
@@calebbutler5566 DP-28/DPM. Not DP-08.
@BlueLightningHawk3 жыл бұрын
Dinner is served
@yaduwn88443 жыл бұрын
obligatory “EEEEEYATATATATATATA”
@All-Fur-Coat_No-Trousers4 жыл бұрын
I've been trying to create an item sorting lexicon for an rpg my friends and I have been working on. There are many different weapons to consider, and the nomenclature available is confusing as hell. Your videos have helped me considerably.
@valeriofabrizi34973 жыл бұрын
There is a common misunderstanding about .50BMG regarding use against personnel. The urban legend is that it is a war crime to shoot personnel with it because it is intended for anti-material/anti-armor purposes. One of the common things you would hear old vets say is, "Aim for their metal belt buckles because they count as armor/equipment." This is actually not true though. There is nothing characteristically about .50BMG that would prevent it from legal use against a person according to The Hague. Some speculate that the origin of such legends stem from Infantry command instructing soldiers to not use .50BMG on personnel in order to conserve limited ammunition supplies during Vietnam. It would suck to run out of anti-material ammo in deep combat and then have to deal with a fortified emplacement. Of course, if you stop and actually think about it, the legend doesn't make any practical sense at all anyway. Are we meant to believe that use of mortars, conventional artillery shells and air dropped bombs are totally fine on personnel but .50BMG is just too much maiming and undue injury?
@salvagedude6252 жыл бұрын
Same here! For some stuff, I as a sci-fi world-builder just make up some new terminology when applicable but it is certainly helpful to have this real-world basis.
@saintpariah7 Жыл бұрын
@@jeremy5602 probably a comment bot. They're everywhere these days
@jamest43636 жыл бұрын
When I joined the army in 1994 I started firing machine guns with the M60. After making it to my permanent duty station in FT.Lewis WA we switched to the M240B machine gun and the quick changed barrel was one of the greatest things about that gun. I was in a machine gun squad and part of a 3 man gun squad. Later while close to my discharge date in 1998 I was a M249 gunner before becoming a team leader with the M4. Great thing about being in the infantry
@straightjacket2196 жыл бұрын
240L carved a bunch of the weight off, used them in Afghanistan. great weapons
@DarknessViper996 жыл бұрын
Which one was your favorite tho?
@jamest43636 жыл бұрын
the 240 L of coarse. But in 1994 the version of the 240 we were using was the 240 G with no heat shields out front and we had no technical book for it at all. We had to make our own . Also we would take the gun to the range when we first got it and we're able to knock down 800 meter targets at night with no problem due to the new flex mount on the tripod. The reduced recoil was the best part of the system.
@gunner6786 жыл бұрын
James T43 The FN MAG or Jimpy (GPMG) as we call it....superb machine gun. For a time, I was a jimpy gunner and an L4 A1 (7.62mm Bren) gunner...fantastic fire power. Cant say i had experience with the 249. I have used the G3 or the old MG 42, very good gun!
@jamest43636 жыл бұрын
Matthew Dobbs :; I would really like to have a go with the MG42.
@joshbutler57696 жыл бұрын
This is one for the support players...
@npne12534 жыл бұрын
AMMO BAG ! AMMO ! I NEED SOM FOOKING BULLETS HERE OUTTA AMMO! Man do support players even know how to support their teammates lol
@redactedgamersgd17883 жыл бұрын
@@npne1253 no basically every new players chose support class in any games for the LMG because 30 rounds aint enough for em
@AnAmericanMusician3 жыл бұрын
Except bipods in real life actually worked...
@CloudCobra226 жыл бұрын
0:44 Ooo, graphics!
@Floris_VI6 жыл бұрын
Ikr😂
@hakugin156 жыл бұрын
WHOA IAN DON'T BREAK THE BUDGET
@SPEEDYNOOB6 жыл бұрын
J Slik standard IMovie text animation lol.
@kentuckysmoose5 жыл бұрын
SPEEDYNOOB r/whoosh
@connorrothbard96895 жыл бұрын
Easy there Michael Bay!
@Cannibal7136 жыл бұрын
Cool video. Best explanation of MG classes I've heard. 23:38 And seeing Ian shooting a maxim gun from the hip in a German helmet was priceless.
@Mrqwerty21093 жыл бұрын
"Dempsey always told me LMG stood for 'Lick My Gibblets'" -Richtofen
@deoxys3133 жыл бұрын
"So I grabbed Dempsey and demanded to know what LMG really stood and he said 'Let me go dumbass'... I did not know it was LMGD" -Richtofen
@verfugbarkite6 жыл бұрын
The m60e3. Rambo used it like an smg
@harrisonkuhn84476 жыл бұрын
Yeah but stalones arm looked like it was about to pop in Every scene.
@plasticoflamingo29526 жыл бұрын
really not possible, even for a big guy, to fire effectively without a mount. i used to carry one, basically a fire hose of bullets.
@rapitisioannis5 жыл бұрын
rambo can use two Maxim's on each hand! :-)
@LeroyJ125 жыл бұрын
Lol!
@MaxSluiman5 жыл бұрын
@@plasticoflamingo2952 it is. I did it, when I was in the army, using a MAG. However, you don't hold it like Rabo. But from the shoulder and in short bursts. But then, we Dutch are a bit bigger than Americans.
@farkasmate146 жыл бұрын
Just one thing to add: after the Korean war anti-aircraft use of HMGs shifted. it is true, that these weapons are obsolete against jet planes, however with the introduction of helicopters to the modern battlefield HMGs still have the potential to take down these aerial vechicles quite effectivly. Light anti-air capabilities alongside infantry portable surface-to-air missile systems still can rely on heavy machineguns.
@farkasmate146 жыл бұрын
Just what I said.
@alastair94462 жыл бұрын
Heard that most of USA copter losses in Vietnam were due to HMGs.
@thegoldencaulk27426 жыл бұрын
Now what about Gatling guns? Are they considered some form of machine guns, or are they just considered gatling guns?
@thegoldencaulk27426 жыл бұрын
Ignore this if he's already covered it
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
If you mean the hand cranked type, I left them out because they really weren't the same as machine guns. They were treated like artillery for the most part. If you mean modern electrically powered multi-barrel guns, they are all aircraft machine guns, as that's the role where the rate of fire makes practical sense. When deployed on ground vehicles, they are simply repurposed aircraft machine guns. :)
@thegoldencaulk27426 жыл бұрын
I had a conversation with someone earlier about this, and I personally thought they were always classified as their own genre of weapon, mostly due to being multi-barreled. Even the M134 and other aircraft-bound multi-barrel autocannons are called gatling guns (although I'm not sure if that's an official designation)
@skepticalbadger6 жыл бұрын
They are manually operated machine guns. The term machine gun originated with them.
@simplyharkonnen6 жыл бұрын
TheGoldenCaulk Having multiple barrels does not really change the tactical role of the firearm that much. Just means it takes longer to overheat.
@FriendlyNeighborhoodNitpicker5 жыл бұрын
Am I the only one disappointed that there wasn’t even a passing mention of the M60?
@LastStar0074 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I was surprised he could talk about GPMGs without mentioning the M60.
@VascoCC954 жыл бұрын
Me too as it is used from the hip/shoulder and is belt fed
@Oob1444 жыл бұрын
PKM master race
@bigmcboi67114 жыл бұрын
Mg42 top-cover slapped on a BAR/1919 hybrid with a quick change barrel its general purpose because its literally is every class mushed into one
@rcheek2074 жыл бұрын
yes
@hutchmusician4 жыл бұрын
I would just like to thank whoever does the captions, they are excellent. If KZbin has taught me anything it is that good transcription is invaluable, and that despite all of Google’s computing power, auto-generated captions are still effectively impossible. This channel is so good at what it does it makes me weep for all the rest.
@RalpGalland6 жыл бұрын
I don't care what Ian says, my old battlebuddy, the MG3 still rules the field! Heck, I'm still sore and heartbroken over having to hand in my G3 for the puny HK416N. Tho, my unit just got the MG3 reissued, to much cheers and celebration, so I'm not all sad :P
@valeriofabrizi34973 жыл бұрын
shut up
@utzius80033 жыл бұрын
Good gun. We still use it too, it is just called the MG74. I wouldn't want any other gun to cover me.
@CommandoTM4 жыл бұрын
Already familiar: check Still interested: check Not applicable to daily life: check No firearms experience: check Still watched: C H E C K
@Scroolewse3 жыл бұрын
just gonna brag a bit here: my unit just assigned me as the SAW gunner for my squad 😎 forget about the fact that im in a non-deployable unit 😢
@gloomsouls3 жыл бұрын
I always forget the terminology for MG's. HMG - Heavy Machine Gun MMG - Medium Machine Gun LMG - Light Machine Gun GPMG - General Purpose Machine Gun SAW - Squad Automatic Weapon LSW - Light Support Weapon (I'm just writing these here to try to remember)
@logical-checkmate3 жыл бұрын
@@gloomsouls I mean, it's eco friendly, at least you are not wasting any paper. 🤔😁
@crayon2893 жыл бұрын
Cool, another Rudy
@tomfrommichigan6 жыл бұрын
This was really fun to watch. I'd like to see Ian give lectures on history that is not necessarily related to firearms. Of course, I'm sure he has more than enough to do already.
@motorcop5056 жыл бұрын
Another informative video! Great job on all your work. The one machine gun that was conspicuously absent was the M-60. With its weight and belt fed ammo it was a bear to have to hump, but definitely packed a serious punch. The tripod and T&E mechanism provided an excellent base from which to fire it in a defensive position, but it was hellaciously heavy to have to carry on top of one's other gear.
@rowangallagher45795 жыл бұрын
I'm a bit surprised you never went over the oddity of the M60 and how that turned out, popping in and out of service in a few ways.
@disappointedoptimist2558 ай бұрын
I'm also surprised he doesn't mention it but it is a pretty classic GPMG, more deserving of the term than the M240 really
@harrisonw25146 жыл бұрын
can u do (or have u done) a video on the differences between submachineguns? eg a PDW, SMG and machine pistol?
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
That is the next one in this series. :)
@harrisonw25146 жыл бұрын
looking forward to it
@Mr_LH19806 жыл бұрын
I'm looking forward to it too. I sometimes play airsoft (don't laugh it's the only non criminal way you can shoot at other people) and they often play pistols only. They constantly say my VZ61 and Mp5K aren't pistols.
@Quethonable6 жыл бұрын
Ken Morgan MP5Ks arent really pistols. Skorpions toe the line a lot more though i think
@Mr_LH19806 жыл бұрын
Butbut Maschinen~pistole so it's a pistol :D
@blakee25256 жыл бұрын
Ian, I'm really glad you made this video. I think this terminology can seem kind of arcane at first, but it really shows the design intent and the tactical roles that ordinance departments were trying to fill.
@maxc.13294 жыл бұрын
LOVED Ian’s demonstration at the end of the video of the chopped Maxim: his little “trot” made my day! Keep it up buddy!
@dellawrence43234 жыл бұрын
The BREN wasn't phased out after WW2, it was in service with the British Army and Royal Marines until the mid 80's, we had them during the Falklands war, along with the Lee Enfield sniper rifles converted to 7.62.
@GiggleBlizzard6 жыл бұрын
Man this was great! Cool to see you look at a variety of guns in a single vid like this, not talking so much about them in detail but describing their role and use. It's nice for someone like me who is as far from an expert on this stuff as you can get, the context adds so much.
@MarvinCZ6 жыл бұрын
The GPMG mostly replaced LMGs after the WW2, but not in Great Britain. The Bren Gun (in 7.62x51mm NATO) continued to serve in the LMG / SAW role alongside the GPMG. It could accept the same magazine as the L1A1 rifle. It also continued in use as a vehicle-mounted weapon. It was replaced in the LMG / SAW role by the L86 LSW in the 80s with the adoption of 5.56x45mm as the standard rifle cartridge.
@chrismills89276 жыл бұрын
marvincz3 or you could use the 30rd bren mag in the l1a1 lots of fun
@petergordon91905 жыл бұрын
The LMG was used in British regular service (RAF at least) until the early 90's (I was using one in 92) and I think for longer than that in the Territorial units.
@dartt514 жыл бұрын
@@chrismills8927 The problem with using the LMG mag in the SLR was the fact that the spring was weaker than the SLR mag as it used gravity to help feed the gun as it was fitted to the top of the weapon and just stretching the spring would cause it to snap.
@JoseMedina-gf4cu6 жыл бұрын
Glad you noted the 249’s unreliable magazine feeding issues, it is extremely tedious and just better off left alone.
@davidbhart6 жыл бұрын
That editing really caught me off guard
@CarrotConsumer6 жыл бұрын
Straight out of 2005
@aNemetZzZ6 жыл бұрын
I'd never think that a half hour long video on the finer points of classification and terminology could be this entertaining.
@cudwieser39526 жыл бұрын
Keep these terminology and tech vids coming along with the history and indepth vids. :)
@josephpigot87836 жыл бұрын
You should be a history teacher
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
Am I not already?
@adamhauskins64076 жыл бұрын
Forgotten Weapons your the best history teacher/weapons instructer on youtube and the Internet at that
@Mysticphishphan4 жыл бұрын
Forgotten Weapons you are👍
@caseyhall23204 жыл бұрын
@@ForgottenWeapons If there was an in person classroom, that you used to teach about guns, I would absolutely be a student haha.
@dazedstacker62203 жыл бұрын
He is duh
@DantheAuthor6 жыл бұрын
I was told (And always believed) that the defining characteristic of a Machine Gun was the ability to self-feed: I.E. Modern Rifles rely on the spring within the magazine to feed the rounds, but a machine gun would eject the casing, pull in a new round, and chamber it autonomously without relying on external force. I also believed that weapons that relied on magazines and fired full sized cartridges were called "Battle Rifles". You learns something new every day! Looking forward to hearing you clear up that segment: The one on Assault/Battle rifles!
@leafgreensniper13 Жыл бұрын
For how I see it, the chauchat is a battle rifle, same with the BAR. Automatic rifle really is only a term of usage doctrine, and not so much the physics characteristics of the weapon. For instance, the bar and chauchat are the first gen of battle rifle as they: use box mags of small capacity, fires full power rifle cartridges, full auto fire, heavier platform, while having ergonomics of older weapons. Let’s be honest, they’re just like an Fal, m14 or a G3, I don’t care what they were meant to be used for.
@andrewlavoie6034 Жыл бұрын
@@leafgreensniper13 They are nothing like the FAL, M14, or G3. They're too heavy to be battle rifles, and besides, they lack select fire.
@leafgreensniper13 Жыл бұрын
They shoot full power rifle cartridges in full auto. Only have 20 round mags, so they can’t be used effectively as a lmg. They in fact carry many similarities to modern battle rifles.Think of them like an early battle rifle. Automatic rifle is just a usage doctrine.
@gamerbg294 Жыл бұрын
@@leafgreensniper13You misunderstood the concept of automatic rifles, even though they don't have the same sustained fire capability as other machine guns, they still don't compare to assault rifles/battle rifles (battle rifles/assault rifles has the purpose of making relatively accurate groups with few shots/bursts, if you try to do continuous fire it will compromise not only accuracy, but also the condition of the weapon). Another detail is that automatic rifles used to be in full powered caliber, as it was the main ammunition used by the armed forces, which facilitates logistics (it's not surprising that bolt-action rifles and machine guns were of the same caliber and I would say that only It was with the arrival of submachine guns that this paradigm changed a little, as they already used the same ammunition as pistols, precisely to facilitate logistics). Another thing that shows that automatic rifles are different from battle rifles is that because they are intended to achieve a certain volume of fire, they can be fired from a open bolt (as chauchat and BAR are), which would be unthinkable in a battle rifle, because as I said, they are intended to be relatively accurate. An example that automatic rifles are different from battle rifles is the FAL HBAR (version with a heavier barrel to support greater firepower), because the battle rifle does not have the capacity to carry out a large volume of fire, not even by short periods (of course in an emergency situation you can use the automatic capability, but it is still very limited compared to the automatic rifle). Furthermore, automatic rifles have the idea of being lighter (compared to other machine gun classes), so that they can deliver a good volume of fire during the advance, even though they do not have the same capacity as other machine guns and can be effectively fired from the shoulder. There is a very interesting video discussing the role of the automatic rifle called: Squad Automatic Rifle, from Christopher Larsen channel.
@dandhan876 жыл бұрын
It's funny that Ian mentioned M27 IAR as USMC has now decided to field it as DMR also
@cutekittes36 жыл бұрын
dandhan87 my battalion did a dm course and that’s what we used with match grade ammo and it’s damn near a 1 moa gun with match grade ammo but the bullet is really light so wind carries it more than a 7.62
@dandhan876 жыл бұрын
Alex Grashel I think ammo commonality will be great on a platoon / squad level carrying separate ammo type for just one gun will be a pain point
@cutekittes36 жыл бұрын
dandhan87 if only I am carrying the weapon system and the ammo as well as a m4 with 6 mags I don’t think it will be any different from the things I’ve carried before some things it would be lighter and I would just throw the 7.62 in my assault pack and strap the weapon system to my assault pack as well and then employ it as needed
@GuntherRommel6 жыл бұрын
It's funny that the USA has to re-arm its' military just to have full auto assault rifles. Most countries just issued FA from the get-go and hammered into their soldiers fire discipline.
@squidwardo7074 Жыл бұрын
@@cutekittes3 you think you could hit a target consistently in full auto at 300 yards with it? with a bipod of course
@philM1234346 жыл бұрын
Ian I've been loving your videos right from when I found your channel a few years ago. Now finding "my" gun crew with my distinctive self made carrying sling attached to the MG3 in one of your videos just kills it. ;-) The pic was taken at a semi-public demonstration (hence the yellow triangles on the back) and somehow made it to the English Wikipedia page of the MG3... Keep up all those great videos!
@fpsftw6 жыл бұрын
I genuinely have to say, thank you, Ian. This was actually much more informative than I anticipated, and cleared up some things surrounding the terminology of machine guns I couldn’t find anywhere else.
@clonemarine16 жыл бұрын
In regards to the Automatic Rifle, those old words ring true. "Nihil novi sub Sole." Nothing is new under the Sun.
@valeriofabrizi34973 жыл бұрын
shut up
@billylin54046 жыл бұрын
Awesome video, Ian, as always! Also want to give a quick shout-out to whoever did the Chinese caption: You did a really good job! (I can see that the translator is someone who actually knows guns and their terminologies, which, of course, I knew I could expect from a person Ian chose to work with him.) Thank you guys, and keep up the great work! Happy New Year from Canada!
@Obbm1231236 жыл бұрын
Fun Fact: The MG 08/15 is the Origin of a German figure of speech ("08/15"), which means something like mediocre, average (or below average), "common but not really that great"
@slightlymadotter87096 жыл бұрын
A lot of soldiers probably hated that gun with passion after they had carry it during an assaults or any other activity which involved walking and running with it.
@wheezzl6 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same when I heard him talk about it. I always thought it had something to do with time though (like a 08/15 job that would usually start at 08:15, even if that doesn't make much sense ;))
@GhanyNurisAlhakim6 жыл бұрын
Well.. 8 out of 15 (08/15) is really a mediocre score
@arisukak6 жыл бұрын
Funny that the French commanders thought their Chauchats were bad, while thought the 08/15 was great and the Germans thought the exact opposite.
@slightlymadotter87096 жыл бұрын
It was great to have on your side, just the poor buggers who carried it hated it more than their enemy.
@athodyd6 жыл бұрын
7:08 I was typing in something about the HK416 arguably being the modern equivalent of the old-style automatic rifle at that exact moment and then Ian cut me off at the pass. I was a fool to think I could outsmart Gun Jesus!
@AndrewPalmerMTL Жыл бұрын
Regarding the discussion at the end about "a really bad light machine gun" etc.: never forget that the way to make any piece of military equipment "man portable" is to attach handles to it. Job done!
@RDeathmark6 жыл бұрын
Don't think you can fool us Ian this video topic is just an excuse for you to show off your machine gun collection
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
Literally nothing I put on the table was a machine gun. :)
@angrypotato54685 жыл бұрын
oof
@slippy24903 жыл бұрын
@@ForgottenWeapons Is this a joke or am I clueless?
@silverlos60826 жыл бұрын
cozy sweater jesus
@broup91376 жыл бұрын
Jesus wasn’t white though
@broup91376 жыл бұрын
strys Obviously you do. If you really didn’t care you would just go past it. Wanna talk about it?
@broup91376 жыл бұрын
strys You’re going to have to one day my friend. Good luck.
@loganreinpold49815 жыл бұрын
Cozy sweater Custerd
@DinnerForkTongue5 жыл бұрын
His sweater is made of gun belt canvas.
@andresmartinezramos75136 жыл бұрын
11:21 You put GMPG instead of GPMG
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
General Machine-Purpose Gun, I suppose?
@GhanyNurisAlhakim6 жыл бұрын
Gun, Machine, Purpose-General
@causecause13846 жыл бұрын
General Machine Purpose Gun
@andresmartinezramos75136 жыл бұрын
Richard Roberts Ahh... Lovely Welsh
@UsenameTakenWasTaken5 жыл бұрын
General Philip Morgan's Gun.
@minuteman41996 жыл бұрын
In the Canadian army I used C5 machine guns, which were Browning 1919 MG's converted to fire 7.62. We fired them from tripods or as vehicle coax mounts. I think we had buttstocks for them but they were different that the one you showed on the Israeli gun. We referred to them as GPMGs. They were replaced by C6 machine guns (MAG 58) that we also referred to as GPMGs
@chrisdoe26596 жыл бұрын
I would separate the SAW and LSW classifications. I would define SAW as a purpose designed machine gun, typically belt fed firing an intermediate cartridge. For example the Minimi/M249, Ultimax, or CETME Ameli. I would define LSW as a machine gun adaptation of an assault rifle, typically box magazine fed. For example, the L86 LSW, M27 IAR or the RPK.
@CaptainKzer6 жыл бұрын
Hey Ian, I really like this type of video where you talk about processing all of this knowledge about firearms and their use. It seems like an ideal way to join all of the mechanical knowledge of Forgotten Weapons with the more abstract concepts of "tactical use" from InRange. I hope to see more vids like this in the future!
@samp.17663 жыл бұрын
*UPDATE*: the USMC is now rotating in the M27 IAR (HK416) as not only it’s Automatic Rifle role, but also as the standard DMR and infantry rifle. Exceptions include medical staff, unit leaders, and anyone requiring lightweight kit or a 40mm underbarrel (m203 not currently compatible)
@garrettj.rodriguezslowpoke50944 жыл бұрын
This guys job seems awesome. History and firearms
@IronSalamander84 жыл бұрын
This was excellent. Very informative and interesting. Some of the terminology can be confusing, especially in the case of how the HMG has evolved over the years, and this video really helps with all this.
@RetroVikingr896 жыл бұрын
Awesome video, Ian. Loved the M-27 while I was in. Like the tactical concept of precision over volume.
@abdulqaderhaddad38156 жыл бұрын
Drinking game : take a shot every time he says "sustained" lol Great video as always !
@aaronsgunsmithing6 жыл бұрын
Bourbon? something a little stronger or a lot stronger like Moonshine?
@stanislauskusumobagus52666 жыл бұрын
Aaron S ethyl alcohol could work.
@KarlfMjolnir6 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure that game could be sustained for very long.
@ComMactavish6 жыл бұрын
The RPD is a SAW right?
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
Yes, despite being belt fed.
@hjorturerlend6 жыл бұрын
The first, right?
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
Certainly the first to be widely adopted, yes.
@papamike886 жыл бұрын
RPD was a Handheld Machine Gun which is a typical eastern term for LMG/SAW hybrid.
@Reikianolla6 жыл бұрын
Better than Lindybeige's video on the topic at least haha
@eoingarry9126 жыл бұрын
BLASPHEMY
@tisFrancesfault6 жыл бұрын
Lloyd's video was sufficient to explain differences to the average person (short and simple). Ian's is more comprehensive.. less tangential, and more detailed, but this is Ian's specialty so it's a given. I used to show Lloyds, when I couldn't be bothered, this one will replace it.
@GCJT19496 жыл бұрын
Lloyd is BRITISH and has a certain ... orientation ... to the British Army view from WWII especially. Geoff Who notes it was informative.
@elsoldadomarquez6 жыл бұрын
Lindy is a british with a limited experience & knowledge about firearms but do his best effort to explain the topic, lan is american & a shooter & gun connoseiur. There' s a world of difference between both.
@jazzmaster9096 жыл бұрын
Spandau intensifies.
@efreitorsroul9332 Жыл бұрын
Finally! Good explanation about SAW vs LMG or GPMG. Many soldiers now use 40 round RPK with common AKs
@Mayes0416 жыл бұрын
Love these concept videos, 'machinegun terminology' and 'rifle lengths'. Very interesting and informative. I've someone's new to guns this is probably one of the better ways to get them diving into the deep end of it.
@natepatterson49346 жыл бұрын
23:36 Krawling Kaiser Fire!!!
@fredwarren69735 жыл бұрын
The History Guy
@strangersam36296 жыл бұрын
Your video taught me a lot of things thank you ! (sorry for my English I'm French)
@mrb6926 жыл бұрын
You speak English better than I speak French!
@gunner6786 жыл бұрын
stranger guy bon soir mon amis, jai habit en france pendant sept ans maintenant...Charente Maritime....votre anglais, c'est bien! Mon francais pas bien mai je essayez tous les jour!
@strangersam36296 жыл бұрын
Thanks guys !
@xDTx12So6 жыл бұрын
I accept your apology for being French
@shawngilliland2435 жыл бұрын
@Stranger Sam - Your English here is parfait. Vive la France y le français! Did you know that Ian is learning more French for his upcoming book on French military rifles?
@PigKiller156 жыл бұрын
Ian, this is one of most interesting videos I've seen in a while. Thank you so much. My question is why do you consider the M27 to be a Automatic Rifle and not a Squad Automatic Rifle? The M27 fires a 5.56 NATO round from a STANAG magazine.
@fardiemann6 жыл бұрын
This was just insanly informative, I learned allot here! Your work is pretty solid Ian. Also your voice and way of talking is really easy to follow despite all the thick history and dificult termologies :)
@sword71666 жыл бұрын
I would love to see another one of these videos focusing on the assault rifle/battle rifle spectrum of weapons
@Captain_Moggsby4 жыл бұрын
6:00 fudds *laughs in 9mm belt fed AR*
@TheNotrussian6 жыл бұрын
When are we gona see a video on your Chauchat?
@annairinastoll29606 жыл бұрын
I think he is still waiting for it because of the NFA process.
@AWPtical8006 жыл бұрын
+go away yes, but he bought a .30-06 Chauchat via auction this year.
@Sir_Godz6 жыл бұрын
likely when he figures out how to do a disassembly without it jamming then breaking.
@janlabij73025 жыл бұрын
Sir Godz-Very funny. Actually, the Chauchat in 8 mm Lebel worked very well. When the army demanded it be converted to 30-06 the problems started. Jamming due to extraction problems that never showed up with Lebel cartridges. Lebel is rimmed, 06 is rimless.
@nbp20155 жыл бұрын
I always thought SAW stood for Semi-Automatic Wifle!
@rogerdildeau7507 Жыл бұрын
Excellent video! The automatic rifle and the light machine guns were always a blurry distinction, and this video clarified it. Also, the M1919A6 struck me as an attempt to make a BAR out of the M1919A4. Your definitions are very useful, but as you pointed out, there are always exceptions to the rules.
@warmike3 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for putting the laconic text version in the description!
@N1te0wl1416 жыл бұрын
What would you say would be the fundamental differences between a machine rifle and an assault rifle? Seems like they are essentially the same but the rifles are older and thus heavier
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
I would say it's a matter of relative firepower. The automatic rifle/machine rifle is intended to provide more fire than the service rifle it is being used with. Hence, BAR/Springfield and Chauchat/Lebel, and M27/M4.
@seanrea5506 жыл бұрын
an assault rifle takes an intermediate round and has a selection of firing modes one of which being full auto. this would be a step up from the smgs like the Thompson or the ppsh, that fired a pistol round with lower accuracy.
@Foolishman17766 жыл бұрын
Isn't the difference open bolt on the mg vs closed in the ar?
@seanrea5506 жыл бұрын
no, that would be a technical diffrences based on nessisary operations, i think that the main diffrences would come in with the cartridge, an automatic rifle being a full rifle cartage where the assault rifle uses an intermediate cartridge.
@bikewaynarrows92124 жыл бұрын
11:20 General Murpose Pachine Gun
@guileschwaiger84723 жыл бұрын
I'm glad someone else saw it.
@clintcannon19025 жыл бұрын
Excellent sermon, I'm glad I made it to church this week.
@KiwiImperialist6 жыл бұрын
‘Squad Automatic Weapon’ sounds like a clumsy term used to create an artificial distinction between modern and historic light machine guns.
@fboyg915 жыл бұрын
240 gunner here. Best damn MG I ever used. 8 inch beaten zones at 1000 meters with open sights. I’m the farthest thing from a PT stud and I still was able to hump it around fine. It’s got my vote for the best GPMG ever made.
@fallout19536 жыл бұрын
Is that a Suomi KP i see in the background? Suomi mainittu, torilla tavataan.
@seandohe99794 жыл бұрын
Bren: People labeled me as a machine gun but I self identify as a sniper rifle
@hollygundlach7565 Жыл бұрын
Great video! Super informative, but what exactly is a sub machine gun (SMG)?
@monkey3229 Жыл бұрын
Fully automatic firearm firing pistol calibre
@Greycat2017 Жыл бұрын
General Criteria: Mag fed, Fully automatic, with a Stock (folding or fixed) and fires a pistol calibre.
@TroelsRohde4 жыл бұрын
Great great video, seems very well researched, great calm yet not slow presentation. Well done sir!
@mikkelmyrup74656 жыл бұрын
Besides the mentioned roles of AA guns, mounted guns, LMG and HMG, the MG 34 also filled the role of Automatic Rifles being fired from the hip in German doctrine. Thank you very much for the work you put into all your videos! Sidenote: My favorite word for an MG is the Swedish "Kulspruta" translating into "Coal Sprayer"
@hawks1ish6 жыл бұрын
Perhaps a better term for that Israel .50 would be a modern medium machine gun since it’s in between a modern light and heavy machine gun like the 1930’s-40’s ones were in between light and heavy machine guns of their day
@williamjeffery96536 жыл бұрын
YOU FORGOT SUB-MACHINE GUNS. I mean, they fulfill a completely different role then the weapons you described, and use a completely different cartridge, but dammit it's got machine gun in the name and no doubt there's a confused COD kiddy out there who needs the record set straight.
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
That is the next video along these lines, which will look at SMGs, PDWs, and machine pistols.
@williamjeffery96536 жыл бұрын
Oh, cool, I'm looking forward to it. Also, have a happy new year Ian!
@LasOrveloz6 жыл бұрын
GMG's also
@MrCmon1136 жыл бұрын
What are submachineguns like in CoD?
@narkieofficial49766 жыл бұрын
Will there be any video on the type of rifles or sniper rifles ? Like a marksman rifle sniper rifle anti material rifle blah blah blah and the different types of assault rifles
@aronk88106 жыл бұрын
I still wonder about USMC's decision to drop the SAW in favour of the IAR. I know the SAW is heavy and not entirely reliable, but it seems to me that "accurate supressive fire" is a bit of an oxymoron. They're trying to use the thing as a DMR as well apparently. A marksman can keep heads down, but it will never be as effective as sustained automatic fire. Otherwise ammunition-strapped armies all over would have adopted the "supressive DMR" concept. In short, I'm not buying what they're selling.
@OutrightRegent46 жыл бұрын
A Ronk basically, the m27 can be repurposed to whatever it need A to be. Loaded with a drum magazine and full auto, it provides accurate suppressive fire. Switch it to semi auto, it can become a dmr in the hands of a marksman. And suppressive fire is just fire that keeps a enemy's head down. It's a lot. Easier to do that when bullet are whizzing over your head constantly, instead of going all over the place. So effective suppressive fire should be, and almost has to be, accurate. They aren't saying the m27 can be used as a dmr and a suppressive weapon at the same time, the u.s military just wants the gun to switch roles when it needs to. AND seeing as the u.s navy and marines have already adopted it, it must be working
@turinlowe6 жыл бұрын
I am going with the theory that the Marines wanted a new rifle and didn't want to take the 5+ years it would take to get thru testing plus getting the other branches involved. So they backdoored the M27 as a supplement to the SAW and bam they get a new rifle that has a fun switch.
@aronk88106 жыл бұрын
That's all well and good until your drum mag jams. There's a reason why the Corps is issuing them with 30rd mags. Honestly, if they could issue them with 60s and a bipod, it would be equivalent to an RPK, which is a great SAW platform.
@OutrightRegent46 жыл бұрын
A Ronk the drum mags are working though. They aren't typical drum mags like the ones on the m249, they are more akin to the drum mag you see on rpks, which very rarely jam, and certainly jam a helluva lot less than a belt fed weapon. They aren't going for perfect, they are going for consistent, something the m249 is doing horribly on. He'll, this might just be a transition until they find a better saw weapon, we don't know yet
@aronk88106 жыл бұрын
The SAW only jams like it does because of that stupid mag feed option. A good belt feed system is going to be as reliable as a magazine, if not more so if the belts are maintained properly (if not disintegrating belts). I've never used the M27 drum, but every .556 drum I've had experience with is less reliable than a stick mag. Now, like I said, if they can get the thing working like the RPK does with its 60 round sticks and tack a Harris on, I think it would be a decent SAW. I'm not so sure about the decision to replace the DMR with it though. I can see an advantage if you were to replace the squad marksman's weapon and the SAW gunner's weapon with one though. You could get double supressive fire and double DMR by cross-training both men. Would be a real force multiplier in certain situations.
@ellomdian6 жыл бұрын
I love this video, both because it's informative, and because Ian gets to show off some hardware ;)
@blakewinter16576 жыл бұрын
Very interesting! I hope you don't mind me saying, but Lindybeige has also done a video on machine gun terminology, and I think it makes a nice supplement to this video, especially for those who are primarily interested in WWII terminology.
@joshjbradburn6 жыл бұрын
11:22 should the abbreviation be 'GPMG' (general purpose machine gun,) not GMPG...?
@mikemorr1006 жыл бұрын
Damn, trying to carrying around a 45 lbs. weapon must have been just awful. Anything above 20 lbs. is tiring after a few hours but 45 would just be brutal
@davidgrover59966 жыл бұрын
Just moving it from one side of the shop to the other is annoying mikemorr100. I can’t imagine marching with it all day.
@Blade406886 жыл бұрын
What is the longest one of those water cooled MGs from WW1 could go if you kept it topped off with water and ammo?
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
Days. Although you have to change the barrel every 10-20 thousand rounds as the rifling wears out.
@senecanero38746 жыл бұрын
I heard one of the britishmaxim gunswas surplused in the 60s and in an Experiment fired for a hole week 24/7 till they Ran Out of ammo
Seneca Nero And I'd imagine that after firing for a whole week straight the barrel probably developed a hole in it.
@sirfatant4 жыл бұрын
That makes so much more sense to me now. I knew all the terms but didn't see how they all came together. Thank you
@Jason-c1b3r6 жыл бұрын
Thank you for clearing this up. It is definitely confusing. Especially, in the case of the heavy machine gun where today’s definition of a heavy machine gun is not what it originally was. One question I have though is what is the difference between a SAW and LSW? Is it just nomenclature? Sorry if you went over this and I missed it.
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
The LSW is Britain's name for a SAW.
@Jason-c1b3r6 жыл бұрын
Oh ok. Thanks
@chrisdoe26596 жыл бұрын
I would say LSW is a modification of an assault rifle design. For example, the L86 LSW, RPK-74, or M27 IAR. A SAW is a purpose built machine gun and typically belt fed. For example, M249, Ultimax,or the Soviet RPD.
@Jason-c1b3r6 жыл бұрын
Ian answered this already.
@AnoNYmous-bz2ef5 жыл бұрын
23:02 NSLMG(Not-So-Light Machine Gun)
@44WarmocK776 жыл бұрын
So technically, the FG-42 is an automatic rifle from WWII? Neat!
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
I didn't consider that, but yes, I think that would be correct. Good catch!
@44WarmocK776 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Ian. ^^ And you know what: I dare to say that you could almost add another requirement to the automatic rifle in its original designation, which distinguishes it even more from a SAW: full-power cartridges. The BAR and Chauchat used them because there was no intermediate cartridge around at that time, the FG-42 however was purposely built to use the 7.92x57mm Mauser instead of the Kurz (which would have made it a direct competitor to the StuG-44).
@jaffiman21936 жыл бұрын
I always thought that the FG 42 was a battle rifle, meant to replace Rifles and SMGs as standard equipment rather than serve as a support weapon. Perhaps it's just another area where the line between two categories is blurred.
@MarvinCZ6 жыл бұрын
+Jeffiman The FG 42 was intended to give the paratroopers some of the machine gun capability after the experience of Crete, where they had trouble getting to their machine guns, which were dropped separately in crates, and they had to manage with SMGs and bolt action rifles.
@miskakopperoinen84086 жыл бұрын
FG42 was always intended as special equipment for paratroopers, which is reflected on its price. It was significantly more expensive than the submachineguns or rifles in service, and as such, would have been unsuitable for a standard issue weapon. What you're thinking about is STG-44, which was intended to replace the standard weapons and was reasonably priced after some production tweaks.
@mdlindsey6 жыл бұрын
I wish I could buy you a beer, you are simply awesome. Always shedding some light and experienced knowledge on topics that always peak my interest. Probably overall the best channel I've found on KZbin, although The Great War is a close second. :)
@eliane2743 Жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for that very comprehensive though clear and easy to follow explanation.
@kelvinyonger88856 жыл бұрын
I have an example: the M134 Minigun. It fires 7.62 x 51mm NATO, but has a crazy ROF of 2000 to 6000 rpm. It doesn't fit into any thing except for the old HMG definition.
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
It's an aircraft machine gun, which I didn't cover here. Basically defined by rate of fire.
@kelvinyonger88856 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Though they were capable of being fired from a vehicle.
@ForgottenWeapons6 жыл бұрын
You can fire a Chauchat from an airplane, too...I'm covering design intent here.
@anter1766 жыл бұрын
a biplane armed with only chauchats. That'd be a bit of a pain
@GCJT19496 жыл бұрын
Lewis Guns worked for years until the aircraft got larger and could carry MMGs with high rates of fire. Geoff Who recalls a book that measured WWII fighters in total gun horsepower.