Former Bethesda Dev Says They Should Switch To UE 5 - Luke Reacts

[@joshuacollins9346]

As long as Bethesda continues to be completely creatively destitute, there's no game engine magic that can save them from putting out mediocre to bad games. Starfield in UE5 would have still been a boring slog of proc gen garbage and bad writing.

[@tjroelsma]

Sure, but Starfield in UE5 wouldn't have all the loading screen and would make seamless transitions from flying to landing possible. The main difference as I see it is that Bethesda tries to use the Creation Engine in a way it was never designed for, whereas the Unreal Engine just suffers from bad optimization. Optimization is relatively easy to fix, whereas trying to make the Creation Engine do what it never was designed to do is very hard if not impossible and it will never come even close to what the Unreal Engine can do.

[@xcreeseseater38]

Yes but the main reason they refuse to leave the garbage ass creation engine is because they wouldn't be able to just copy and paste a fuck ton of code from one game to another. Their entire engine is fucking trash and needs to be trashed.

[@Nasmr1]

Agreed. Captains Macks' starfield reviews perfectly demonstrate that the game design philosophy fundementals are broken over there, not just the engine.

[@DenshinIshin]

@@tjroelsma They could have done all that without loading screens. Their engine isn't a binary blob they can't modify either, they do have the source code of the creation engine and could basically expand it and rewrite part of it to make it pretty much anything, but they have been complacent with it for a looong time, barely upgrading things. Also, the main issue isn't their engine, but their creativity and sure, they could do with -a bit- *a LOT* more investment in their engine, but switching to something else wouldn't fix how bad their games are designed, how terrible their writing is, and how shallow their RPG element became, etc. And let's not forget that they would lose most of their modding community that rely on the same tools since forever. The only reasons to switch from a proprietary engine to something else is if you really don't have the money to keep investing in your in house tools, have limited personnel to work on it that are needed on other projects, or the new hires takes too long to get familiar with it and you're trying to expand your team fast. Everything else is just stupid trend chasing that will cost a lot of time and money.

[@aaronhumphrey3514]

Bingo. The engine isn't even in the top 10 of Starfield's issues.

[@emikochan13]

the engine is the last problem they have, they need to make the game interesting

[@llamatronian101]

The engine may not help if they're spending all their time just making the game *work*. That's how you get quotes like that Starfield is their biggest achievement, when it's actually boring.

[@512TheWolf512]

yeah, but limitations of the engine are also infuencing game design. some things are just impossible to implement, even if you're creative enough to come up with it

[@Kintabl]

​@@llamatronian101 True, but with more interesting premise, better writing, with more dengerous planets and more hand made surroundings of the major cities, the game would be way, way better. Even in this engine and million loading screens.

[@a-j6798]

So true. After 400 hours playtime I can't remember any location in the world that is interesting or any quest that is exciting to play. The best moments were created by accident by me timing the main quest drama or by game engine creating some funny events. I restarted Skyrim again and the magic is still there. Someone wise enough could explain why Starfield does not have it. It is not the loading screens that are ruining the game. Or the engine - they have succeeded with it before. For me Starfield is at it's best with the dialogue... that's it. Lately I've been thinking about role of music and I must say Starfield does not shine with that either. Shattered Space tried more open world approach and fails again to make the game more interesting - why in this game even exploring fails.The very aspect that usually is the the best thing in Bethesda games.

[@zenoxp8928]

@@512TheWolf512 Limitations of the game engine? I'm not gonna lie they haven't even used the game engine to 100% capacity xD they've added a ton of things into the engine and haven't even used it xD

[@SecksyMan]

Bethesda is suffering from a severe case of toxic positivity, and until that ends, their games will never be good again.

[@odys3803]

Exactly! I was waiting for twists, backstabbing and betrayal in every interesting quest in Starfield, but it never happened. That, is Starfields biggest problem.

[@ModuliOfRiemannSurfaces]

The Creation Engine was not the root of their issue. The root of the issue is that Starfield’s fundamental design was not compelling even on a conceptual level. Also the writing is dogshit and there wasn’t an interesting conversation or bit of worldbuilding in the game. It felt like it was dreamed up by a 17 year old who thinks NASA is cool and has never read a book longer than Goosebumps.

[@Kintabl]

Exactly! Engine can't fix the problem that made Starfield boring and uninteresting game.

[@m0ose0909]

​@@KintablI completely agree and found the gameplay loop of Starfield boring... But gotta admit if the load screens weren't so excessive I may have tolerated the game a lot more.

[@Brutalhonesty11]

Enough with the nonsense that the engine can never be the issue. It is and will continue to be. Stop with the frankensteining. It belongs in a museum.

[@Kintabl]

@@Brutalhonesty11 How would engine change uninteresting and boring world in Starfield?

[@Brutalhonesty11]

@Kintabl it wouldnt thats not the point.

[@THEONETRUEOVERLORD]

It’s not the engine it’s how you use it. RDR2 was made on a heavily modified version of the R.A.G.E engine that originally was used for Rockstar’s table tennis in 2006. Bethesda just clearly doesn’t have a good vision or know how to use their engine properly. GTA6 is using the RAGE engine again so it’s clear Bethesda just has a skill issue.

[@dennisrehrmann6710]

Does that mean, you could make Bethesda's engine as good as UE4/5 or RAGE just by much more skillful changes?

[@jacklonderr]

Recoding a ton of the engine is what Bethesda doesn't want to do because it would cost a lot of money and they are griddy bastards.

[@Rando-s7t]

That's incorrect. The Creation engine and the ancient tools they use for it go back to Morrowind when it was called Gamebryo. This engine has had the same core design failures back when we expected much less from hardware. It's "load node" design is a core function on how games are created. They can frankenstein it (as they have been doing for decades), but they cannot fix it with a "vision". Its failures are in how it actually works and the tools are designed around this.

[@naiko8412]

Thats what happens when you fire all the talent that help build the older engines the new employees have no idea how to work on those old engines

[@DIOBrando-ij2bp]

You’re making it sound like the RAGE engine was made for Table Tennis, and then, wow, look what they’re doing with it now. The RAGE engine was made for Grand Theft Auto, (EA had bought Criterion Games a couple years before, who made the RenderWare engine Rockstar North used to make GTA, and didn’t trust EA with the information they’d have access to about GTA development) Rockstar Games Presents Table Tennis was just a thing Rockstar San Diego made to test the engine they were making, it’s an internal test that got released. The not trusting EA because of how huge they were bit is kind of funny now given how large Epic has become in recent years, and how almost everyone seems to be using Unreal like it’s the old 360 days again.

[@shib5267]

they would still make shitty games that run like ass, but this time with the UE5 logo

[@dr_diddy]

yh this is kinda the problem, it's not the engine causing bad writing and characters, it's BGS.

[@SilentSoul0]

I agree. Even if Starfield was in UE, there’s no good bones there. But they continue to double down and defend their shitty design, shitty writing, boring copy-paste companions. We will probably see a similar situation with new Elder Scrolls

[@sampsonXD1]

Have two problems with this. First off swapping to UE5 doesn’t solve your problems. A well built custom engine will do far better that slapping it in Unreal. 2nd issue, is people didn’t like starfield, not because it looks bad, but because it was a bad game. If it was made in Unreal, it still would be bad.

[@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken]

UE allows for better management of transitioning. Load screens would be better hidden or not noticeable. While it doesn't fix everything, it does address one of the major problems. They also fail to get new people in who can immediately work on their games. It's why CDPR made the change from their engine that is GOOD. Upkeep cost + not being able to bring in new hires or outsourced portions all that fast because people had to learn it as they got their hands on it, rather than before. Hate or love UE in general, nearly every single Curriculum teaching game design has students doing as such on UE.

[@ggsunshiners]

@@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken Trust me, the loading is not as big problem as people made it out to be. If the game is great, nobody would give a rat ass about the loading screen. The problem is the gameplay itself, you wait for loading screen just to be given a mid experience, thats the problem. Helldivers 2 have 30 sec-2 minutes loading screen for every mission and 30 sec loading screen to get to your ship again. Anyone care? No. Cause the game is great.

[@sampsonXD1]

@@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken I mean like others have said, faster loading times won’t make it a good game. But I still don’t think the solution to 99% games should be slap it in unreal. Yeah a proprietary engine means you can’t just hire people and expect them to work. But when done right it should end up with higher quality games. And if the on boarding process is longer that’s not a bad thing. It incentives people to stay with a company for long term, so they can learn and master an engine. Instead of these hiring sprees that keep going on.

[@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken]

@@sampsonXD1 Worst take I've ever seen. Know what keeps people with your company? Good pay / community within the company. If you have to rely on something as dumb as people staying only because of your Proprietary system making it "hard to leave", you don't deserve to remain a company.

[@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken]

@@ggsunshiners, The loading is an issue. To act like it isn't is wild. I've already stated there are other issues. Loading is still a significant one with how often it happens in areas that should be seamless. It's the worst it's been in ANY game.

[@GTexperience_Channel]

as a unreal dev, I can guarantee one thing, unreal engine is not capable of managing so many physics, they would have to build their own sub engine within unreal engine for this to work. bypassing all of unreal engines UObject based render system. fun fact, CDProject Red is actually doing this. their lecture talk about it was "Decoupling in unreal"

[@GTexperience_Channel]

Luke I noticed u showed the motion matching from unreal. That wouldn't be possible for Starfield. It would take up too much of the performance. its not optimized at all. maybe it would work if they are able to switch between standard animations and motion matching. but it is not a quick fix.

[@GTexperience_Channel]

I disagree with the opinion that the physics aren't what is important for Bethesda games. It wouldn't be a Bethesda game without the physics. being able to see every item as a separate entity/ being able to interact with them separately, that is a great plus to me. Most other games fake clutter by combining multiple unique items into a single mesh. even the latest mega lights unreal trailers are doing this method. These combined meshes can never be separated.

[@doomset1231]

Except.. what am I gonna do with all those physics in a game about slaying dragons or in a space shooter? It would be a great concept to keep with VR but with a controller or mouse/keyboard? Complete immersion breaking as you don’t even pick them up physically they just float in front of you cause the game engine would probably melt trying to render hand holding animations. And what can you even do when picking them up? Dropping it back down? lol I remember trying to organize a book shelf at my house in skyrim and all I could do is drop and hope it lands upright. Or the classic case full of shards? Watch them all fly out the case every time I load into the house. These physics have been the bane of my skyrim characters existence and that’s just the tip of the iceberg with how annoying everything else in Bethesda games are. Don’t even get me started on their rabbit hole of a bugfest involving mannequins and weapon holders 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@doomset1231]

Those physics would probably work amazing if someone like cd project ever worked on it. But Bethesdas physics involves walking into your house and watching all your books or placed objects shake uncontrollably while they should really just be sitting there on the shelf. And better yet find every object you carefully placed ended up falling onto the floor because Bethesdas primordial engine couldn’t handle having so many objects in a single area for them to sit still. Like I can’t tell if it’s just shitty game design in general or if Bethesda couldn’t pull their own weight if their life depended on it.

[@doomset1231]

Idk id just really hope a ‘Bethesda game’ would be known for something more than just a ‘game where I can store 10 000 hot dogs inside a room for no reason 😃’.

[@yogiwp_]

No, not UE5 but a customized idTech engine would make a lot more sense. Have the engine wizards at id on it.

[@BigLongRandomNumberNameM-kf9vy]

I've been saying this since Fallout 4. They're making first-person shooters. They own _THE_ first-person shooter company. Just give Id the requirements for some new tools and let them do their job.

[@domino4843]

That's actually a pretty good idea.

[@lilwintery6434]

@@domino4843 why not just have them overhaul the creation engine?

[@doomset1231]

@@lilwintery6434 overhauling the creation engine is like overhauling a fridge from the 60s like just throw it out and buy a new one lmao

[@lilwintery6434]

@@doomset1231 if they used the id tech engine they would have to implement all their dev tools on that engine it's just a question of logistics, it would be cool but i don't think it would be very proftable to have idtech spend years developing a new engine for bethesda so they can just make the same game anyways

[@joeverecondi8096]

If Bethesda ditched the creation engine all we would hear for elder scrolls 6 is how so many of Skyrim's features were missing and how it wasn't nearly as mod-friendly

[@jeb791]

There already doing that

[@Freg-ld2lo]

That will without a doubt probably happen either way

[@FirstLast-yc9lq]

@@jeb791 Not at this level because the creation engine and kit is designed for modding now. They will never switch to Unreal Engine and thank god.

[@jclosed2516]

@@FirstLast-yc9lq Completely agree!

[@BeautifulMan4015]

I'll never forget the removal of athletics and acrobatics from the elder scrolls series, the birth of non-stop ridiculous fast travel compared too actual exploration and being rewarded for it, if they switch that engine what else will we lose now? Look, I get it especially since Fallout 4, the normies have just gotten upset with their games, and that's okay but it doesn't mean we should ruin the whole experience for everyone else that likes it. You know what I do when I want to go back to the good ol days? I play the older games, and mod them, it takes time, that is far better than Bethesda having to completely keep having to change the design of their games. Unreal Engine 5 will ruin the whole experience, its even worse than what Bethesda uses at the moment, huge step in the wrong direction.

[@zenoxp8928]

This again? The engine isn't the issue the framework, management and higher ups are the issue, no amount of Emil/Todd hate will change that there is people higher than them making the decisions for people saying "But the loading screens" bro, not only are UE5 games unoptimised 80-90% of the time and I think UE makes devs lazy with optimisation the creation engine isn't as bad as people make out, if it was that bad how did it produce 2 games? Thats something an outdated engine couldn't do. The loading screens ain't a thing that just exists in a game engine thats something you have to setup, they could do without 80% of the loading screens if they took their time optimising the game on top of just taking their time in general, I feel like the team wasn't delegated well enough nor had a decent work flow as half the things are still being worked into the new engine from what I have heard.

[@selloutsanders5774]

As a modder quite proficient with the creation Kit for all their games, all this talk about the "bad" engine is quite misguided tbh. Not saying I don't understand the distaste given some if its more apparent flaws, lol. But without the creation engine, the actual feel of the games themselves just won't be there. The engine is what allows for every mechanic that makes a bgs game a bgs game. Genuinely. Good and bad. The problem is the design of the game in accordance with the engine.

[@HonorBRJonasFCB]

Yes there is also the fact that the engine is only a tool, what matters more is how you use it, Bethesda could had definitely improved the asset streaming performance so that we had less loading screens on starfield, but it seems like it was never one of their main focus/priority for the game, which unfortunately shows a bad design choice and lack of understanding of how a space game should feel on the transversal mechanics.

[@pracitus]

They need to remake their engine

[@5226-p1e]

one of the best and worst experiences playing mods is in FO4 playing Kinggaths mod SS2, i both love and hate that mod, i love the story and the concept, however the mechanics just aren't there because the limitations of the engine cause significant issues to the mod, sadly Kinggath created this mod around the mechanics that cause issues in the mod overall. again i love the concept of these mechanics for his mod, but they are simply too limited due to the creation engines limitations, so it's really frustrating playing through that mod only for the script lag to catch up and suddenly nothing in the mod or outside of the mod work properly because the mod messes with the scripts too much, his mod also causes significant save bloat that makes saving your game take it's damn time, there is a fix for that, but it's still uneasy because the bloat is saved in the save, even if it's a hard save.

[@svenjorgensen5]

BGS's greatest strengths were the game's modding potential, but now they wait until most of their players have moved on to release the creation kit. It'd be a shame in many ways but I think a move to UE would be a net good.

[@thefactory7221]

I agree. I was on a spiel many moons ago about how Creation isn't really fit for a game of the scope and scale of Starfield, the devs and modders quickly ran into the ceiling of capability that the Engine has. Skyrim is Perfect for it, Fallout games can be phenomenal, big ole giant playground with stuff in it and questlines to do.

[@strider029]

They don't need to switch the game engine, they just have to figure out a way to make an open world game without loading screen behind the doors.

[@christopherallard1693]

solution: switch to a different engine

[@arielshligman2146]

@@christopherallard1693 so no mod support

[@lennysmileyface]

@@arielshligman2146 They could make a UE5 SDK like other games have.

[@arielshligman2146]

@lennysmileyface ue5 sucks bro

[@domino4843]

@@arielshligman2146 UE5 is a great, if bloated, engine used by lazy devs. And as the other guy said, it supports mods.

[@strider029]

They don't need to switch the engine, they just have to figure out a way to make an open world game without loading screen behind the doors.

[@jamestabbron8124]

Luke Stephens eats pasta with his feet, pass it on.

[@UberNeuman]

I thought he ate feet with his pasta?

[@kolfe2a]

That's OK as long as he uses Toddsta Sauce.

[@koryhelm8515]

​@@kolfe2a Toddka sauce*

[@DezorianGuy]

Those are rumors, don't spread fake news.

[@Balls_on_Chin]

i literally saw it happen

[@MeCrazy516]

i really dont want to see more people switching to UE5, most of those games are a bit of a mess

[@GunShark0]

Smite 2 comes to mind.

[@commanderwyro4204]

i saw a post about it and it basically said that the issues with UE5 have basically been resolved. but the issue is that all the games with said issues were in development for years before said fix. so basically we wont see good UE5 games for another 2 years at least. not sure how accurate it is. but it does track with UE4 and the same situation

[@bork750]

I cant wait for gaming in the next ten years when all developers are using Unreal because they can't be bothered to create their own engines anymore

[@TubeEamo]

At least they'll have zero excuses to not be optimised and work day one.

[@alaskanyeti907]

And Madden will still use Frostbite

[@naiko8412]

You forgot that will all feel like generic slop

[@DIOBrando-ij2bp]

Dark days.

[@timmygilbert4102]

They will make their own engine INSIDE unreal 5

[@ThePotchili]

I would much rather some games stay true to their own engines rather than the entire market be even more flush with UE5 games

[@alexdoan273]

have you played Starfield aka loading screen fest?

[@elvickRULES]

@@alexdoan273they could, crazy idea, work within the limitations (and strengths!) of their engine instead of just try to retro fit it to every game. Wild concept I know.

[@dr_diddy]

​@@elvickRULESyup, 4 highly detailed, content rich planets should've been a no brainer. I don't understand how Todd looked at the released game and thought "yh, this is fun." 1000s planets in an engine that isn't designed for seamless space travel is a wild choice.

[@Foxtrop13]

@@alexdoan273 guess what? with unreal5 you will also have loading screens if you have to jump from world to world, loading and unloading assets

[@Mandrew343]

​@@Foxtrop13 world to world loading screens is not comparable from ROOM TO ROOM loading screen.

[@killerpinetreegaming7712]

Creation engine isn't the problem. Bethesda is the problem

[@brisvanhal9969]

Creation engine and Bethesda are the problem.

[@harty3113]

People are the problem. Starfield was a really good game that people shit on because it wasn't skyrim.

[@atlasgfs]

​@@harty3113ur so dumb

[@wlot28]

Nope, you're all wrong. Mismanagement due to rapid growth is the problem.

[@onabiv]

@@harty3113 Ha ha ha....That's good. Really funny........wait, you ARE joking, right?

[@brandonholt6717]

I'm not sure I'm really with you. Bethesda's biggest problem isn't an outdated engine, they have a very serious quest design and writing problem. Second, I think the biggest boon for them is their still unbeaten modding support. You change engines and you lose the best thing they have going for them and solve what's only a minor problem.

[@jundersplunkett2365]

Iv been in the BGS modding community since 2017, and you are spot on, its really not an engine issue. If the animations look bad to you, its because they made bad animations not because the engine took a good animation and made it bad. Also the CK does have animation blending, not sure what he's talking about, every engine has animation blending, folks really need to stop talking about things they don't know anything about. Losing the ability to mod at the level the CK allows would be a disaster for BGS as BGS games get substantially better after a few years of mod support.

[@TheDunbartxeen]

that just comes atop of the engine problem

[@TallgeeseIIII]

Paul Tassi writes whatever he thinks will garner clicks. He literally wrote an article attacking Star Wars Theory and other youtubers who are critical of Disney Star Wars, then wrote his own "Star Wars Sucks Now" article expressing their exact talking points. He's a two-faced shill, that's why people don't like him.

[@FullMetalB]

Hahahahahahahahahaha waaaahhh he said bad words about star wars theory waaaahhh

[@thekotabear3262]

​@@FullMetalB Female response

[@hakuhyo174]

One thing going for Creation engine is the mod support, but then, Bethesda mod community is shadow of what it used to be compared to Skyrim era so maybe no point.

[@dr_diddy]

Modding community is only as good as its game 🤷🏻‍♂️ Cyberpunk modding tools was dogwater but the community grew and built their own tools and scripts. You only get that if people genuinely like and want to invest in a game. Starfield has official tools yet don't have as many advanced mods due to lack of interest. BGS can say modding is important but if the base game sucks then they might as well drop support

[@mrplayfulshade]

Fallout:London would like to have a word with you

[@danielbetancur1250]

@@mrplayfulshade Except Fallout 4 was an actually good game, and a decade old.

[@austinwhite3575]

Skyrim is still getting more mods everyday compared to Starfield, Fallout 4, and even Fallout 3 & New Vegas combined.

[@mrplayfulshade]

@@danielbetancur1250 I agree, 4, 76, london. I actually hate Fallout 3 it's easily the worst imo

[@lucifer0247]

Creation Engine is what makes Bethesda RPGs unique and gives it the feel of their world

[@brandonborgerding182]

absolutely peeps have no idea how much it adds to their games when they decide to use it properly.

[@Mkrause762]

No Bethesda needs to release a story focused 3rd person action game a la god of war

[@undercovernerd1137]

Unfortunately that feel is 20 years old

[@Pablo_Frk]

@@undercovernerd1137 Just search for videos aout skyrim modded. Engine its not the problem.

[@TheDunbartxeen]

sorry bit Outer World very much felt like Bethesda Game and was UE

[@lupolinar]

How will another engine save bland game design and basic writing? Right, it won't.

[@waterloo32594]

Things to remember regarding Bethesda 1) all the old timers responsible for the most famous and favorite lore of ES are gone. 2) most of the devs that worked on BGS’s most popular games (ES3-5, FO3) are gone, either at other companies or retired. 3) most of Bethesda employees have 1-2 games under their belt. You can probably guess which games they worked on. 4a) Bethesda does NOT have a dedicated engine team to fix, upgrade, rebuild, and patch Bethesda’s engine. Creation engine 2 is the first version to have actually been upgraded with modern modules, which leads into 4b) the creation engine is actually gamebryo which is actually netimmerse. It was a successful game engine that was very advanced for its time, and was used in mmos, 4x strategy games, and of course RPGs. So what’s the problem? The base engine that Bethesda uses has had the absolute minimal upgrades made to it. All they have done before Starfield was get it to run on multicore systems with 4gb+ ram and modern graphics cards. Every other improvement they have made is tied into what makes the engine so good, modularity. The core engine is designed to use different modules that can be swapped out or upgraded, such as havok for physics. The engine itself is very stable and versatile. However, the engine is old, most college and university educated devs have not been trained on it, and the version Bethesda uses it barely upgraded since Morrowind. Multiple dev interviews as well as modders have stated that code from Morrowind, often orphaned code, was in every game until FO76. Same with oblivion, FO3, etc, showing up in new releases. Now compare this to Rockstar and their RAGE engine. Its debut game was 2006s table tennis. So why is it so much more stable and versatile than creation? Because rockstar has (or at least had) a dedicated team of trained and experienced engineers whose job was the maintenance, repair, rebuilding and upgrading of the engine. Bethesda hasn’t ever fully proven that they rebuilt gambryo from the ground up. It’s the same issue facing Creative Assembly and the Total War series, a severe case of technical debt. And with almost all the old timer devs gone, it would take months just learning the game engine before you can even start rebuilding it. 5) Bethesda’s leadership is out of touch with the fan base, and there are multiple interviews with ex-employees who make it clear that the dumbing down and removing game mechanics as well as the disregard of and overwriting of old lore with new less interesting stuff comes from the top. TL:DR ES6 won’t be better than the slop they’ve produced since FO4, and all signs point to disappointment. Most of the devs that made ES3-ES5 and FO3 are gone. They have retired or moved on. The devs at Bethesda are the ones that gave us Starfield with big old smiles on their faces, fully believing they had created the ultimate SciFi rpg space game and would sweep the game awards. They in turn are backed up by the second tier devs that created the FO4 Next Gen update, that came late, fixed basically nothing, broke just about everything (both mod wise and game wise) and still have yet to fix it. This is the Bethesda of this generation folks. It’s not going away, even if Todd retires or is replaced tomorrow. It will take years with a dedicated ceo and hiring team working together to fix the company. And with how Microsoft is, I don’t see that happening any time soon.

[@RandomWandrer]

Dude. The engine is good enough. Bethesda are struggling with creativity and writing. If Starfield had been written like Mass Effect, nobody would complain about the load screens.

[@TunafishN7]

"Had we moved yo Unreal engine things would have been better" really don't think that UE5 is the solution to every problem bro. If everyone changes to UE5 we will have aestheticly similar games with bare bone physics. And UE5 looks pretty but also looks generic af.

[@Square-0ne]

Exactly. And then there is the problem of being a hostage of Epic Games. UE is not free. It is proprietary with Epic Games having a tight grip on the direction and featureset.

[@IsomerSoma]

I know what you mean with generic, but maybe this generic look is the fault of the devs utilizing ue5?

[@The_Cranky_Painter]

CDPR is going to Unreal because their actual devs who know the engine left.

[@gibbit2k496]

The engine is not the issue, Bethesda just doesn't have any talent anymore, I used to think that the engine was the problem but there are so many mods out there disproving this there's even animation blending mods they even added animation blending to Morrowind for gods sake so yeah no it's not the engine it's just the developers.

[@ikninja1hd]

Luke does not understand how engines are built or improved. Creation Engine 2 is a significant rebuilding of the Creation Engine with entirely new lighting, physics (no longer associated with frame rate for example), animation, AI, pathing, rendering systems. That is a lot of rebuilding. The added '2' is warranted for how much was rebuilt and improved. All engines are iterations. UE5 was not built from scratch, it is literally based on a UE4 fork... No complaints there though.

[@codyedition]

After Starfield, I can’t say I’ll touch another new game of theirs

[@fajaradi1223]

Dude, most people has been leaving them since 76

[@RyanBurnsRed]

Unreal Engine becoming the default game engine for the industry is pretty scary. I understand the sentiments with Creation Engine, but having yet another game on UE wouldn’t be a win for anybody but Epic Games

[@SuperAerie]

Because we all like stutters on our open worlds, right!

[@noamias4897]

And shitty TAA and blurs

[@Imhotep397]

The problem is it would take a ton of money and TIME to build branching game long RPG arcs systems in Unreal and they just saw Dragon Age The Veilguard get lambasted for not having that. Personally, I think AI shortens the road to better/more efficient graphics for the Creation engine and pulls it’s ass out of the fire.

[@BigBeakEntertainment]

From what I've seen, modders LOVE the Creation Engine. It's what they know how to use. Bethesda, being as small as it is compared to CDPR or Rockstar, ends up leaning very heavily on its modding community for what is essentially free labor. From bug fixes to full questlines, modders are a core component of Bethesda’s business model now. They’re even integrated into it through Creation Club. It even acts as a hiring pipeline. They seem to have decided that falling behind industry standards is worth it if they can keep leaning hard on their modding community instead of ramping up staffing or cutting the project scope. TBH, if BGS games just had better writing, acting, and animations, it would almost be forgivable.

[@iceman10129]

From everything I can find, they had more employees in 2023-2024 than CDPR. But about 1000 less than Rockstar. Dont forget that subsidiaries count too. "Bethesda Games" is just the name on the building writing the checks. Zenimax was 65% of the workforce.

[@SolCrown80]

They're not a small studio.

[@BeautifulMan4015]

Did you know that Blackrock and other investment companies are not allowing good writing anymore? I can't even blame Bethesda here, Starfield has terrible writing, but it's all over when you get in the actual gameplay which I forgave it, if it was a movie game I would've gave up on it.

[@NeZversSounds]

And that's the reason Skywind takes more than a decade to realize. Their navigation maps takes ages to MANUALLY create.

[@chabbab6698]

This dude out here thinking Bethesda is an Indie Studio lol

[@punpun7164]

Classic Bethesda dev. I don't think ppl realize that it's more than just an engine issue, actual good Writing and Game design? Hellooo??? these bethesda devs need to be ashamed, the stuff that their modding community has done ON THE SAME ENGINE mind you is honestly impressive, and makes the whole UE5 argument seem like they're barking up the wrong tree.

[@daizenmarcurio]

nobody brave enough to challenge todd or emil.

[@Bckgroundguy101]

year 5 of me saying its not the engine and anyone who claims it is has no clue what theyre talking about

[@orangensaft0]

Games on UE5 look shit. For the next 10 years games will look worse than 10 years ago. All games now look blurry, especially details like hair/trees and especially while moving. Seriously pause a UE5 game in motion, it looks way worse than a UE3 game

[@trenaceandblackmetal5621]

UE5 almost looks cel shaded

[@shib5267]

TAA has unironically ruined gaming

[@SuperAerie]

Dont know if there is just an unreal5-thing with the look, but there is a lot of slop-tools in use these days that makes everything blurry/smeary. DLSS, framegent, TAA etc. The optimization on the other hand really seems to be terrible every single time that leads to heavy use of said smear-tools

[@ikwilgeenkanaalzeur]

You are correct, Unreal 5 also runs bad on every system. Its feels like its made more for movies then games.

[@Geoffhuhn-q7p]

Nope streamers and KZbinrs have by continuing to push for 4k and 60fps trash games needed to be 1000 hrs long so they can make content so if anyone blame content creators

[@Trace153]

Anyone looking at that last game, can’t really see the engine as the key problem here. A different engine won’t make the writing better, make them expand the game play outside the basic mid shooter game loop they been using. Cause them to scale the games back to feel loved in instead of templates copied and pasted all over.

[@viniciusmaidana2159]

I'd rather they invest on a new proprietary engine than start using UE5. One of the biggest appeals of Bethesda games is how moddable they are and how the community engages with them, which is primarily a thing on PC. Unreal Engine was never all that good on PC, but I feel since UE4, things keep getting worse, Bethesda games going UE5 is just trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

[@elixwhitetail]

As a long-time Star Citizen backer I can tell you that if Bethesda were to start today on a brand new engine that can do everything they use Creation Engine to do, they'd be able to _start_ making the next Bethesda 3D adventure (whether that's TES6, TES7, or what) in like four or five years at the earliest. Then they'd actually have to make the game while suffering most of the same problems of switching to UE when it comes to things like tools and dev training. Unreal Engine at least already exists so they would have a big leg up on at least beginning the process of switching over if they dropped Creation for something else.

[@viniciusmaidana2159]

I'd rather wait a decade than have the next Elder Scrolls be another UE stutter fest on PC. That being said, I know no business would choose that route over any other that would net them revenue faster, which is why there are so many UE stutter fests on PC nowadays. Unreal Engine's ubiquitousnes in this industry already feels tiresome enough as it is, any development initiative that goes a different route feels like a breath of fresh air.

[@warrenwise8798]

A game engine doesn’t make a good game. Only talent does.

[@thefactory7221]

Todd just can't admit that he's in too deep to course correct, so he has to charisma check constantly.

[@mahominishiyama124]

The creation engine is the single best aspect of their games, since it allows modders to take their mediocre collection of half-finished systems and turn it into a real RPG. The parts that players take issue with are the dialogue, story, combat etc which all seem like they are written for five year olds. Switching engines would make all of these problems much worse, since it wouldn't be possible to fix them..

[@popadomjim178]

Just played a game with myself... I drank every time you said "creation club" instead of "Creation engine". I'm hammered.

[@Jason-ji8ql]

I agree with the sentiment that changing to UE5 wouldn't make the difference. It's the vision that needs to change. Putting Starfield or even just Fallout/Skyrim in UE5 doesn't solve all the issues those games have. There's a reason people have more fun playing a modded Bethesda game than a base level Bethesda game, and more often than not, its not because the mod adds something new, its because they FIX problems Bethesda refused to deal with.

[@idrinktapwater6174]

The last thing Bethesda needs is paying royalties to Epic.

[@elixwhitetail]

Microsoft can afford it, I think.

[@DanielVerberne]

Here I am not realising UE is owned by Epic - thank you.

[@hegesu]

if Bethesda switches to Unreal Engine 5 It's the final nail in the coffin there would be no soul just another ultra realistic slop that all the other game developers use Unreal Engine for you never realize what you have until it's gone losing the ability to interact with every object when make the world feel more alive or immersive you're putting too much emphasis that because it's not necessary that it shouldn't be there just because it doesn't seem useful doesn't mean it doesn't have an impact on the world and how you perceive it

[@hegesu]

ultimately I want them to switch just so people would stop talking about it people keep putting these emphasis on Unreal Engine being the end I'll be all every time something's wrong with Bethesda game that it's because of the engine which is the case for part of it but people are so single-minded and until they switch people will just keep blaming it on the engine and won't bring up any of the other problems with Bethesda right now

[@hegesu]

and by the way you're talking you seem to care more about graphics than gameplay they could switch to the Unreal Engine 5 right now and the graphics would be nice sure and Elder Scrolls 6 would look all pretty but if the gameplay sucks then the graphics don't really matter do they

[@mitkoogrozev]

From Creation engine to Unreal engine. So out of the frying pan, into the fire?

[@THEONETRUEOVERLORD]

It won’t matter. Bethesda doesn’t know how to use their engines properly and refuse to take criticism so their games feel a decade old.

[@tjroelsma]

More like: from and engine that tries to do what it's never been designed to do to an engine that at least has the capabilities but needs to be optimized.

[@hundvd_7]

​@@tjroelsmakinda the opposite actually. UE5 is designed for Fortnite. A cartoonish looking game with complex lighting systems and a fully dynamic environment with very large draw distances. The Creation Engine (& GameBryo) was made for games exactly like the one they have been re-releasing since Oblivion. Gun Oblivion. Western Oblivion. Oblivion II. Gun Oblivion II. Space Oblivion. It is used for the exact type of games that it was designed for. They just don't know how to use it. Neither on a technical level, nor in a creative direction

[@tjroelsma]

@@hundvd_7 The Creation Engine has never been designed for large gaming worlds, as it uses the so-called fishbowl type of worlds rendering. Those micro-stutters and endless loading screens so many people are complaining about, are caused by the Creation Engine having to completely re-render the world whenever the player runs into the limit of the fishbowl. It literally has to create a new fishbowl. That becomes painfully clear in Starfield when you go from flying your spaceship to landing and disembarking on a planet: it's loading screen followed by loading screen followed by loading screen. But on top of that, the Creation Engine is getting quite long in the teeth and Bethesda's traditional strategy of simply tacking on sub-engines to the main engine to add functionality just creates the buggy mess that Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 were notorious for. Sure, Bethesda/Howard finally saw the light and put in some effort to integrate all the sub-engines into the main engine, but that doesn't really upgrade the engine; it only makes it less buggy. There simply is NO getting around the fishbowl type rendering, as that is core engine behaviour. The Creation Engine will therefore never be able to render seamless game worlds or get rid of the many loading screens. Now that isn't a huge problem when you use the engine to create small and tight game worlds, like games that mostly play indoors, if the game developer makes clever use of cutscenes to camouflage the re-rendering of the fishbowl. However, the problem is huge when the player is just running in one direction in an open world and therefore runs into the outer limit of the fishbowl over and over again.

[@ShadowAimai]

True. Bethesda has proven themselves to be incompetent. I do not trust them to do with any engine, even if Jesus and Buddha themselves wrote it.

[@warlocke1894]

The engine is not the problem, its their game design philosophy. You don't need motion matching to have good movement in BGS games cause modders have proven that.

[@alchemystn2o]

"Creation Engine, Creation Engine never changes" Todd Howard - BGS 😅

[@llamatronian101]

*Gamebryo engine

[@parowOOz]

Given that all high-profile UE5 games to date have bad performance/optimization, stutters etc., relying heavily on tech such as upscaling and framegen, I don't think Bethesta switching to UE5 is going to do anything, perf-wise. In fact, given they do not have the expertise in creating games with UE, I'm gonna say their first game (at least) is going to be a sht show. But hey, the will hold off on releasing their nex buggy update until a big expansion, that's gonna do it...

[@dickybird6916]

The "creation engine" is a licence of gamebrayo with a new rendering api. Gamebrayo hasn't been updated since 2012.

[@lol_vevo]

Nothing against Epic, but it deeply saddens me that companies like Bethesda and CD Project Red are moving to Unreal Engine 5. 90% of games on that game engine perform horribly, have shadder compilation stutter, and don't look particularly great. Just leave the engine alone, stop adding 16K textures with a quadrillion polygons, stop adding unnecessary and overly complicated lighting and special effects and stop chasing that goddamn "muh realist graphics" dragon. Game graphics haven't even gotten that much better since 2015 but somehow you now need a NASA PC to even hit 60 FPS

[@EvenstarGW]

Ah yes, because every UE5 game is running like a dream...

[@Ilikebeatzzz]

Because they don't optimize for shi.. Any engine can have that problem if you have lazy development. Back in the day devs cared about that way more since HW was slow af.

[@iceman10129]

To be fair, UE4 didn't fair much better in its early days and near the end of its life we have gotten some of the best results we could have never imagined with the engine. Just imagine years from now when UE6 is dropping, the quality of games we will be getting near the end of 5's life.

[@malman_is_boiiii]

UE4 is pretty good. Dead Island 2 runs well and looks great!

[@dr_diddy]

​@@IlikebeatzzzUE5 has some fundamental optimisation problems baked into the engine tbf.

[@tomthomas3499]

​@@IlikebeatzzzAnd you think Bethesda, out of all game publishers gonna do better job with UE5, The Bethesda that don't even care optimizing their own engine and let modders fix it for them, yeah nope.

[@Stefi-P]

No. The engine isn't the issue. Skyrim, the people had a schedule. 9-5 they worked at the forge, then went to the inn, then went to bed. Starfield they work 37 hours a day in the same shop. No other staff. No schedule. The "city" is 3 dozen people who all look like AI generated chimps (ok, maybe that is the engine). Stroud the billionaire sleeps in his suit and shoes on top of the bed. The story never really went anywhere (loved the stuff on the moon where we found out it was them that killed the Earth). The Terrormorph storyline was much better, but even that was far too short. All the storylines are just too short, they removed the lives of the NPCs, and they continue to use the same bloody voice actors who think they are doing a kids cartoon. Playing RDR2 and then Starfield, the acting and writing is comical. The engine is the least of their problems, and I'm a Bethesda fanboi.

[@MMMNemesis]

I think the acting is a lot due to bad directing, because everyone speaks weirdly monotone and slow. On Mars I did meet a character with a really bad voice actor though (The woman with the fake french accent).

[@lordrams9058]

For CDProjectRed to justfy abandoning the tech to focus on the creative side makes some sense. They have been shown to be good at one and not so much with the other. But starfield is not bad because of the engine. it's a creatively bankrupt game. If Bethesda were to abandon something, it would make more sense to invest in the uniqueness of the creation engine and license de IPs to some other studio.

[@Kintabl]

Exactly! They could do a much better game with a little more imagination, better writting and hand made maps on that same engine.

[@Square-0ne]

CDPR switched to UE for financial reasons. They lost many experienced devs that worked on the Red Engine. As they are the only studio using this engine, they could not replace these people with (cheap) new hires. A own custom engine needs in house experts to update and improve its features. UE is used by a order of magnitude higher number of devs, free courses lower the entry barrier and you can easily find cheap workforce that has basic experience in UE and works for lower salaries. It is all about money.

[@32gigs96]

Fallout New Vegas didn’t need UE5. This dev is talentless hence this recommendation is all they could think of. The gaming industry isn’t for you.

[@GameSlayer41781]

I hope elder scrolls 6 ditches the cardboard cutout npcs and broken games aren't cute anymore.

[@charzics]

Sure let’s all make games in unreal, see how long until people start complaining that it all feels the same, no game will have its own soul anymore

[@AVWUVU]

I'm going to lie. I LOVE STARFIELD!

[@eddiebreeg3885]

The thing people seem to miss about game engines is: UE5 isn't gonna magically solve all your problems. A studio uses the engine best suited for whatever they do. Why would they care about Unreal Engine and all its shinny toys they don't need? And I'm not even trying to defend Bethesda here, maybe they should switch for all I know. But at the end of the day, what you want is an engine which lets you make the games you want, no more no less. Using the absolute latest tech at all cost isn't the goal at all. If you want an example, look no further than Larian: they have their own engine, which at this point is over 20 years old. As a result, it is very much tailored to the specific needs of THEIR games, even though there's definitely room for improvement (I should know, I've worked with it). They have teams to work on the engine and the tools surrounding it and I guarantee you, you wouldn't convince Swen to switch to UE5. But nobody is complaining about Larian's engine, why is that? Well, despite all its quirks, it supports the design decisions they make for their games. Players (me included) seem to like these decisions, that's what makes the game great, not the engine. (Yes, I am putting writing aside here, that's an entirely different discussion).

[@onabiv]

Luke says no one cares about persistent items, but he's wrong. Fans do care. It's part of what makes their games feel alive.

[@SolCrown80]

@@onabiv I disagree, in fact I think it is one of the things responsible for making them feel more dead. The endless numbers of persistent items coupled with the terrible scripting system is what makes their engine incapable of having, for instance, cities with reasonable number of citizens. Keeping track of every last apple and plate contributes to the inability to have a nightclub with an actual crowd, or a bustling market with more than a dozen NPCs in it. As someone who loves environments with life, I would much rather have crowded streets and smoothly animated people than the ability to pick up 126 plates or 350 sandwiches.

[@caderik1386]

Luke is throwing a lot of cheap statements on this video.

[@Billy-bc8pk]

@@SolCrown80 100% huge disagree. Interactables make the world feel alive, not dead. Every game that has elaborate set dressing you can't interact with feel dead. It feels like the plastic grapes on a movie set. Majority of games feel dead because of this.

[@SolCrown80]

@@Billy-bc8pk Eh. They're a nice-to-have, maybe, but the point is that with the CE they come at the cost of too many other more important things. It's not simply having them vs not, it's a tradeoff, and I just don't understand the view that immovable clutter makes a world feel dead but a pathetically unpopulated supposed capital city doesn't. Especially when the movable clutter doesn't even behave like real objects. Food and dishes go flying across the room because you bumped into a table -- that doesn't happen in real life. The physics is awful, and it actually calls even more attention to how extremely FAKE the objects are. It makes the apples seem MORE like plastic fruit. And that's the thing I'm getting in exchange for the ability to have the game run well and have a reasonable number of NPCs on screen? Sad. I'd go further and suggest that if people are paying so much attention to cheese wheels and forks because they're the thing that makes the world feel most "alive" then the game has a lot more fundamental issues, but I digress. I suppose everything has its fan base. I hope you're enjoying collecting your cheese wheels, or kicking them, or whatever one does with all those painfully unrealistic random objects. I still think more, better, less glitchy NPCs with better animation would be preferable, but to each their own.

[@ni9274]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@SolCrown80You’re clearly not representative of people who like Bethesda games if you think cities in Bethesda games should have realistic amount of characters. What people like about Bethesda is how their cities are smaller but have more interior access and more named NPC that you can interact with, nobody want Bethesda to make cities like Witcher 3 where 99% of the NPC are uninteractive and 90% of interiors are either procedural or not accessible. Nobody care about having a nightclub with an actual crowd if the nightclub has more unique NPC with unique dialogue and interactions. Market in Bethesda games aren’t realistic but you can have dialogue with all vendors, markets in CDPR games are very realistic but the vast majority of vendors are unarmed and do not have any dialogue. You’re basically asking for Bethesda to completely change the design philosophy behind Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3/4 and Starfield to do something more like CDPR. « As someone who love environment with life » go play CDPR games for that, Bethesda games have always prioritized smaller scale and less realistic environnement with a higher concentration of handcrafted content.

[@gitte8676]

6:25 I disagree, being able to pick up anything and interacting with the world is what makes Bethesda games special. I disliked Starfield for other reasons.

[@GOOBANGI]

Completely agree, It’s the little things with Bethesda games that make them so special

[@panzer00]

If they switch engines, say goodbye to modding a Bethesda game as you know it; say goodbye to every single item in the game having a placeable model with physics. Say goodbye to NPC schedules. Say goodbye to Bethesda Game Studio.

[@onabiv]

Exactly

[@Notivarg]

Were there even NPCs with schedules in Starfield?

[@panzer00]

@Notivarg no idea i didnt play it

[@herrhimmlerderpacifist7358]

Switching engines wouldn't necessarily be a "goodbye" to npc schedules. Npc schedules are not just a creation engine feature. Other games with different engines had it, too, such as gothic 1 and 2.

[@doomset1231]

Because at this point they should just hire their modders and have them actually make a good game for them. If they refuse to figure out their creation engine (which their modders already did for them over a decade ago) then what’s the point in making half-assed slop where nowadays the writing doesn’t even hold it up? Halfassing games so your modders can finish them for you is some next level scum move and these frauds shouldn’t get any shred of our money or attention especially with how they backhand their own fans for so many years 🤦🏻‍♂️.

[@gorylek198]

Motion matching just pick right animation for your trajectory. Meaning direction of movement. Notice the line at the bottom where character moves. Animation blending is just transitioning from one animation to another in a smooth way. You find keyframes where limbs are closest to each other, then you move them from one to another and you switch animations. Is just a normal thing. There is also animation layering that do similar things but allows you to apply animations to specific bones. This way you can for example make lower body play walking animation while upper body have shooting animation. That means you can walk and shoot in game. Also not everything is "simulated". First of all it's not a simulation. It's just that items have psychical properties. And other engines not only do it too but do it better. Also not everything have those properties so often you can move cup on a shelf but you can't move shelf. And when it comes to dialogue system - I can just use a plugin and then all I really need is to adjust GUI. And writing from scratch dialogue system Bethesda style would take like afternoon. At least as long as you have localization in place. Finally main reason why companies switch to UE5 is due to growth. They want to grow and hire people and not train everyone how to use their own engine and how to do stuff their own way. It's easier to just hire people that already know the engine.

[@JDelwynn]

The creation engine is the least of Bethesda's problems, it's their writing and game design. Their quests have devolved into go kill/go fetch, the stories are simple and there's less and less of choices. That bleeds into their design, as they have stripped so much of what makes an RPG out of their games that I don't even consider them RPG's at all anymore. Fallout 4 is basically an open world shooter now, not that different from Far Cry.

[@SynthLizard8]

It's the devs and Paglurilo that is garbage, not the engine, if Doom's engine can make Selaco and the Build engine can make Ion Fury, then there's no excuse for the Creation Engine.

[@kaimaiiti]

UE is not really Mod friendly and making it so would be a major undertaking. Witcher 4 will be the first massive open world game in UE5... and CD Projekt have literally spent over a year optimising their own version of it for open world and integrating their own engine's features. The most important thing for Bethesda is to make a compelling game. People are much more forgiving over engine quality when the game is fun.

[@jundersplunkett2365]

Stalker 2 in on UE5

[@IsomerSoma]

@@jundersplunkett2365 Its performance and tech is absolutely terrible. It runs like ass, doesnt look good (starfield looks better ...) and is buggy.

[@jundersplunkett2365]

@@IsomerSoma Everything you mentioned is due to BGS and not the engine.

[@IsomerSoma]

@@jundersplunkett2365 Yes, but that was my point. An engine isnt a magic fix.

[@atmosphere60]

The most important point is the one that's not really been mentioned - I can walk around a stunning Skyrim in VR and literally chat to ChatGPT AI NPC's who know more about their own characters and the world of the Elder Scrolls than I do, and they roleplay all that accordingly, all in a gaming world so rich with content that there's no other gaming experience that can even come close. That's all down to the Creation Engine + modding community, and that combination is the only reason why Bethesda and Todd have the cult status they do today. Leaving a large section of that behind for what might be some rather underwhelming improvements to animations and graphics is quite the gamble, and I'm not sure if BGS have the talent to go it alone without their dedicated modding community.

[@kambyyy]

At least it’s a former dev.

[@ogmeatwad.6]

Switching the engine is not the solution. Making the game interesting is the solution.

[@lomo1407]

Blaming the game engine while the core problem is the story and world building itself.

[@tidusklein3387]

No No, please I've had enough of unreal engine and all the Temporal anti alising The built in "motion blur" in nearly all the games i play now is getting annoying

[@joshuadavis2175]

Imagine fewer loading screens 😱

[@ThePindar]

And fewer fps too

[@Mandrew343]

​@ThePindar fewer then 30fps average on launch on reccomended requirements/settings? No unreal 5 game has done that

[@joshuadavis2175]

@@ThePindar don't defend starfield. It isn't worth it

[@jundersplunkett2365]

Load screens were never an issue until Starfield. Sounds like a game design error to me.

[@ThePindar]

@@Mandrew343 you speak as if unreal 5 is perfect and the performance has no problems, you billionaire company d riders are hilarious

[@catwaffles9960]

The issue isn't the engine, it's that they don't design games well. Their issue wasn't limitations, it's that they didn't make a good game using the engine they have. Literal skyrim mods have more features and better implemented than starfield.

[@SHIRO_111]

Creation engine defenders always say it's not the engine fault, its other issues but if the engine is not the issue then why do their games keep feeling outdated If ES6 feels outdated, they need to switch and no excuse from them to keep defending it

[@elixwhitetail]

The engine is just a tool and it's how you use it that counts, and that's where Bethesda is falling down. Everyone's familiar with low-effort shovelware made with the free version of Unity, but Unity's also the engine that powers Subnautica, Cities: Skylines, Hollow Knight, the Katamari Damacy REROLL remakes, VRChat, and Zenless Zone Zero. If Creation Engine was available for anyone to use the way UE or Unity is, I think you'd see much more competent projects and ironically enough it'd show up Bethesda as being weak at their own tools.

[@fugitive6549]

Another ignorant comment.

[@SubiKinubi]

An engine won’t save a boring game

[@Maggpieify]

Bethesda will never admit to something negative about their tools, work or studio setup. To me ever since Skyrim they have been so arrogant that they basically go "negative reviews and feedback dont matter cause look we made Fallout3 and Skyrim that won goty and look at all the money we make. We are succesfull your criticism means nothing to us"

[@michiganjack1337]

23:20 terrible take. They’re moving over to UE because of talent (or lack there of). It’s easy for them to fill a slot and replace employees when they use UE. CDPR isn’t exactly the glowing bastion for worker retention.

[@IsomerSoma]

"CDPR isn’t exactly the glowing bastion for worker retention." Almost none one is in the games industry.

[@Fantasygod19999]

Im one of those people who need to pick up every pencil. At least if the game calls for settlements or creating a home. Thats one of the main reason I like bethesda games is all the junk is meaningful.

[@larrote6467]

No it isnt. It is clutter by definition

[@Fantasygod19999]

@ no junk in like cyberpunk is useless. Junk In fallout is not only decorative but used to break down for components

[@prettyawesomeperson2188]

Well, no amount of engien switching will fix their 1. Terrible writing skills 2. Their ideas of making a fun gameplay mechanic 3. Fix their Reputation. Bethesda was kinda born with Skyrim(popularity vice) and died with Skyrim as well.

[@csberry95]

Wild that CDPR is leaving its incredible looking RED engine for UE5 while BGS continues to stick to Creation engine. Ass backwards lol

[@donaldwoody7910]

Elder Scrolls VI will be like Skyrim but look like Starfield. I think they'll have less issues with loading screens because people will be more okay with a short loading screen loading into caves and towns. Starfield had like 6 loading screens and animations to do anything and it was annoying.

[@Jpcraque]

We get it luke! Bethesda is absolute garbage and sh*t! Now please move on and stop spaming hate videos on them!

[@hmanvlogs2956]

Why? Bc there’s a lot of people who are perpetuating these issues so it must be talked about We don’t want Bethesda to suck, at least I don’t

[@bradzimmerman8512]

I don't think every game should use UE5. Yes UE5 is great but it has its fair share of issues as well. The ID engine is think would be a better fit for Bethesda and they could easily bring on some people from ID to help with the engine.

[@Jpcraque]

Oh god! Here we go again..... Luke please just stop.....

[@coyotech]

Its not the engine its Bethesda Game Design. It hasn't improves. There are some many idea's in their old gams they keep abandoning and ideas and concepts in old games they don't improve. They same to get this idea that more is good. More quests, more companion dialog slightly prettier graphics but loose so much in pursuit of that. To be honest they seem to don't care anymore.

[@xX-Anonymous-Xx]

I just now noticed the weird Todd Howard candle that you have at the very top left of our screen 🤣😂

[@Droogie128]

UE5 is hot garbage, too.

[@jomesias]

I use Unreal, and I love the features and the tools! But it sucks in other aspects: bulky download (20 gigs), requires at least 32 gb ram for high end games and 10Gb GPU minimum for your dev computers! Once you build the game it requires less gpu and ram, but the Unreal Editor sucks it’s slow it crashes a lot. 5.4 has been crashing on me like crazy, it’s supposed to be stable but now you know why some people prefer Unreal 4 😂😂😂😂

[@chimpyboi3540]

The Creation Engine works fine for a game in the style of Elder Scrolls 6, the big problem with Starfield (besides the creative issues) was that Creation Engine just doesn't work for a game set in space but they tried to force the square peg in the the round hole anyway.

[@puntacana7550]

UE5 worth the hassle? I mean 99% of games using UE5 got that generic asset looking world graphics with horrible optimization. Only engine I can somewhat respect is RE engine

[@toadintheh0le]

So bored of this UE5 lovefest. It’s a stutter fest, poorly performant engine. Unless you have devs that know what they are doing with it and know how to make really important changes, every game released on it will suck

[@andrewroberts4852]

We don't need more UE5 jank. Enough games suffer from that.

[@GreenFalcon926]

I don't agree with what you said about object pick ups. One of the best things about Bethesda games, is the ability to interact with the world. Being able to see something, and pick it up, increases immersion. I like that I can see a plate, or a cup and pick it up, move it around or just launch it across a room. It's extremely immersing. Everything else though, I agree with. But that being said, the problems with the company these days, isn't entirely the engine fault.

[@EnejJohhem]

He didn't said that, he actually said that he would like the Creation Engine to be upgraded

[@nadtz]

Paul Tassi is far from what I'd call solid when it comes to covering games. That said the engine is only one of BG's problem and arguably not the biggest one.

[@maerunderemite]

Stupid take. UE5 isn't magic. CDPR arr having to collaborate to make a custom UE5 that will work for their games. Besides that, if GS switches off Creation and losing modding, everyone will lose their minds in a new forever.

[@Unprotected1232]

UE5 is not fit for open world games. It has persistent stutter issues across titles. We need a suitable UE5 replacement for.

[@Square-0ne]

Bethesdas problem are dysfunctional management and inefficient team structure. Its not a engine problem. I recommend watching Will Shens (Starfield developer) talk at GDC2024 where he speaks about the problems during development, the inefficient communication, problems with leadership like noticing they had no final quest in the lage stage of development. There were also challenges with relying on several support studios around the globe working on the same project. The different teams worked in their own bubbles which contributed to the disjoint feeling of the gameplay systems. It looks like they do the bare minimum to keep their biggest asset - CE - in a working state. Same for their live service game FO76 which is held back by bugs (cancellation of the christmas event, caravans being stuck, exploits in the new raid).