Former Mi6 Chief: We are facing bigger threats than Chinese balloons | Alex Younger

Former Chief of MI6 Sir Alex Younger has told Times Radio that alleged Chinese spy balloons in US airspace were "not a look look" but says the cyber threat posed by Beijing is greater.
Speaking to John Pienaar on Drive for an interview due to be broadcast at 5pm this afternoon, Sir Alex Younger said:
"I think particularly in this instance, we need to look at it in the context of all of the things that states get up to and China can do. I question that this is particularly significant in the context of all the other collection that will be taking place. Its visible. The thing that we are have all been focused on for years is the cyber threat. The threat that comes from the sort of Internet and other cyber connectivity. And that, I think, is normally underestimated because you can't see it. This is something that's literally visible, and therefore seems to attract a completely different reaction."
And John asked whether the balloons were an 'embarrassment' as a strategic weapon:
"It's not a good look. They're presenting themselves to the non-aligned world as guardians of the sovereignty of developing nations, and this just is just a very different message."
And he had this to say about China's penetration into UK Universities:
"I think that we need to remember that free speech is free speech. It is the thing that's made us strong. It's the thing that is the difference between us and our authoritarian counterparts. How ironic would it be if we allowed extra territorial restriction of free speech in our country? Quite apart from the sort of covert disinformation possibilities that exist. We need to wise up to all of this stuff."
On whether the UK should send fighter jets to Ukraine:
"I am saying that in principle this needs to be finished on our terms, and that we should not allow ourselves to be inhibited by the threats issued by Vladimir Putin. I do respect the technical argument that it would take a long time to get these these weapon systems into operation. I'm not I'm not an Air Force officer, I can't honestly tell you whether that's a really significant constraint or not. But clearly, we need to be practical about this."
John then asks him if he agrees that the UK should be send as many jets as possible and as quickly as possible and he replies with "yes, absolutely".
---
Times Radio brings you the latest breaking news, expert analysis and well-informed discussion on the biggest stories of the day.
📻 Listen now - www.thetimes.co.uk/radio
Follow Times Radio on social:
🔵 Facebook
/ thetimesradio
🔵 Twitter
/ timesradio
🔵 Instagram
/ timesradio
Subscribe here: / @listentotimesradio

[@rayperkins6006]

This kind of interview is what makes Times Radio great.

[@PavolFilek]

London is in fear of Russia nukes also china nukes, and ....you know the outcome.

[@lyno1980]

100% agree

[@rickdeckard1075]

Masonic Times Radio lol

[@badluck5647]

Few saw the irony of posting on TikTok about their concerns about the Chinese spying on us from a balloon.

[@NinjaGrrrl7734]

When our news is swamped with it, does it even matter?

[@LA-kc7ev]

From the US, I wish to express my recognition, respect and appreciation for the important role the UK has played in the war in Ukraine. Thanks too for the analysis given in this very good interview.

[@casteretpollux]

Thanks for blowing up our gas supply.

[@sbeast64]

@@casteretpollux I don't think it's been proven yet who did it.

[@PavolFilek]

USA GDP is low, China goes higher and higher, 1500 + 6500 nukes and London is gone.

[@davidclary5104]

A big “Thank you” from the US for such focused, factual and direct analysis Times Radio continues to deliver with Interviews like this. And, another big “Thank You” to Sir Alex Younger for his willingness to share his wisdom and experience from years at the highest levels within the espionage community.

[@thestraightroad305]

I truly enjoyed and learned from the penetrating discussion here. A great range of thought within the topic. Thanks for helping present ideas to really think about.

[@pmcd6414]

He's MI6 😂😂 what?

[@alexandergraf8855]

Q: Bring it back in good condition!

[@utternonsenseproductions2415]

Giggity

[@Quareat]

sensible proportioned reasoning, I can only hope our current politicians are as well served in this regard.

[@WonderMagician]

Thanks Mr. Younger for your fact-based assessments.

[@willmears1111]

Excellent commentary from Sir Alex Younger.

[@77thTrombone]

I have always enjoyed watching a good radio program, no less so here.

[@c.ynks98]

Always a pleasure listening to Mr Younger! Very technical and to the point!

[@marlenfras5490]

Good reporting. Thank you.

[@gol622]

Very good interview with the former MI6 guy ..calm cool 😎

[@douglasinglesepertutti4230]

Thank you Sir Alex for sharing your perspective in such a clear and illuminating manner. You give us the context and the background we desperately need in order to interpret what is going on around us. I sincerely hope your words will be listened to by those who can act on them. Thank you Times Radio for bringing us speakers of such calibre.

[@MrManny075]

Did you expect him to tell you the truth?

[@stephenbaker7079]

@@MrManny075 ???

[@kerrygraham3544]

It seems the UK may be waking up. Us Aussies have been exposed, and maybe not satisfactorily dealing with some of these issues for years.

[@judithcampbell1705]

Thank you very much for an excellent work. Times Radio is top notch!!

[@salvyv]

Agreed the west should accept Chinese students, just not Chinese propagandist organizations like the Confucius Institute.

[@davidford3115]

Agreed. I am all for encouraging the Chinese students to defect to the West. But to do that something needs to be done about the CIs. So long as they operate with impunity, it will be impossible for the dissidents to live without having to watch their backs.

[@gamarsh1960]

Superb analysis. I am confident that it resonates in various circles of power and influence.

[@ZhovtoBlakytniy]

I thought Winnie the Pooh was Shoigu for a split second in that thumbnail 😅

[@boosterhuiz2779]

Always good to hear from someone speaking from experience. The past is a window into the future.

[@tjk3430]

I hope the chatter about aliens and conspiracy theories (r/ these balloons) from my fellow Americans dies down soon. It's embarrassing. As the interview subject said we need to wise up. Won't hold my breath though.

[@GlobalDrifter1000]

Heal thy self

[@SuperChadbeck]

I'm American friend and assure you at least people I know think it's ET 😂 of course you will always have people who hope in these situations but for me and my family and friends there is NO SUCH THING 😆

[@dirtydish6642]

Based on the news, you'd think that these balloons are dropping millions of migrants that are not only stealing elections but also taking the last beer in the fridge and not stocking it back up. It's ridiculous how willfully frenzied some people are over this topic.

[@pabloc88886]

Would agree with you in respect to the objects that have been recently shot down. However, there is abundant credible evidence from military pilots and others that legitimate UAPs with observable capabilities far beyond those of our current scientific/technological understanding are interacting with us..

[@GlobalDrifter1000]

@@pabloc88886 hahahaha

[@misterwirez7731]

PLEASE ADD THIS CORRECTION; The US military shot down "ONE" (1) BALLOON. The 3 others are defined as "OBJECTS" and NOT BALLOONS.

[@assertivekarma1909]

One of these days institutions, corporations, universities... Will face a tribunal, for selling out domestic interests & egregiously strengthening/training problematic adversaries like an autocratic CCP & their proxies. The guillotine industry would be a good investment.

[@GlobalDrifter1000]

How refreshing ! not an hysterical warmonger

[@tonupharry]

Lets tool up , get ready for ww3.😋👍

[@geofo60]

Like his counterparts who I have watched being interviewed, they are always measured in their replies to often intensely difficult questions. It's reassuring to know that we have such competent "canaries in our coal mines" . Thanks for sharing this interview Times Radio.

[@BillAllyn]

Sound is better today than it's been recently.

[@ellenfaulkner7616]

I’ve had no problem with sound on this site

[@BillAllyn]

I have expensive studio monitors that are designed to allow you to clearly hear every flaw. So I'm likely in a minority.

[@stzw613]

Get your fighter pilot's home who train Chinese pilots!.

[@wilfhenderson1962]

This criticism of allies is self serving and does not help

[@silviadunderdale9400]

Great commentary sir Alex, excellent work as usual Times Radio. I wish they did more of it on the TV as well.

[@one-zb3jy]

European need be re-untied together focus on RUB, American alone focus on CNY

[@W_Bin]

Excellent informative calm and sensible. Keeping perspective on basics. Except education is a state responsibility, expecting individuals to educate themselves is not only pie in the sky but dangerous to other citizens.

[@fralemieux]

thank you!

[@philliphall5198]

Only a fool would not be prepared for a war any second now

[@ZhovtoBlakytniy]

Be prepared, however don't lose sleep. It's bad for your health.

[@ellenfaulkner7616]

After Russia illegally attacked Ukraine the whole world is one alert. Read up on what countries are doing to protect themselves

[@Au60schild]

I thought there already was a war going on.

[@Stone1108]

Excellent interview with a very credible guest.

[@MrManny075]

What is it that you find excellent? Spying balloon in the open for everyone to see it, that not spying that's shouting I'm here, cyber attack from China is the biggest threat, what about Cyber threat from the US? Allies can become enemies, How is it China all of a sudden becomes the bad one? no one cared about China when it was so poor, is China a victim of its own success? Why is it no one really tell the truth? they grow others have to come down because everyone competes for the same things, 1.4 billion and 800 million middle class need lot of things energy, food the lot

[@Guide504]

Balloons are a distraction...their benefit is signals interception over satellite and some very hi-res multi lens imagery.

[@NinjaGrrrl7734]

Thank you. This balloon stuff seems like a lot of noise so far. There is plenty for them to distract from. East Palestine Ohio anyone?

[@robfritz841]

A helium sphere that big that has the means to loiter at 60,000ft and has that big amount of payload capacity could also be used for electronic jamming satellite signals to ground bases

[@GlobalDrifter1000]

So?

[@himoffthequakeroatbox4320]

@@GlobalDrifter1000 or It cOuld of a naTtem boWM oN it, iNNIt.

[@noahway13]

@@GlobalDrifter1000 Frenzied fevered conspiracy

[@benedictearlson9044]

It was taken out in about 10 mins, ergo not a significant threat.

[@pedromatos5918]

Not only electronic...imagine bioligical warfare... china can try to send in those ballons microorganisms to destroy crops...agriculture... even against humans with virus like covid!!! USA...Europe..and all allys should be working together in espionage and identifying agents ... we need to continue comerce and business..but we have seen chinese companys buying the electrical companys in some European countrys... water companys...we need to start stoping all that could be prejudicial in future for us.... our armed forces are still alot more dangerous than chinese armed forces...but we need to continue leaders in tech and space

[@assertivekarma1909]

It's not about blocking foreign students, but quotas/preferences should represent the quality of the national relationship, esp in security critical disciplines, more background on intent/loyalty should occur.

[@quadq6598]

It is about blocking students, all Chinese students must be removed immediately.

[@davidford3115]

Agreed. South Korean, Taiwanese, and Japanese students are a safer option as contrasted with mainland Chinese. Heck, even diaspora Chinese populations such as Indonesian and Malaysian Chinese are a safer option.

[@olafbaeyens8955]

The best bond movies were in the cold war. Prepare to have new block busters.

[@s1nb4d59]

Wonderful interview from alex,the politicians in europe really do need to pull finger and get this war won.

[@johnbrown9439]

UFOs that are cylindrical or about the size of a car at first seem to break the laws of physics. But the Atlantic Jet Stream is up there at commercial air-liner heights. You could build a thin light cylinder with wings attached, and these could be rotated to give varying degrees of lift, or torques that turn the heading of the cylinder, so that it "tacks" across the Jet stream, travelling over a longer, slower path than the Jet Stream itself. If you fill the rigid cylinder with helium, you can add some more pounds to the lift available to you. If you are flying above the atmosphere, the heating effect of the sun would be pretty strong. That would give you fairly strong convective currents in the helium, so that energy could be collected from fans inside the cylinder. But only a few pounds in grand total seems likely. Any threat would have to be biological, to keep its weight low. If you are good at building micro-circuits, you might be able to do some snooping, but such expertise would come after you had stolen Taiwan.

[@casteretpollux]

Or on the other hand.....remember WMDs?

[@julianshepherd2038]

Everyone spies on everyone and no one knows how much they being spied on.

[@Video2Webb]

My impression of Sir Alex Younger is that he is deeply troubled and depressed by what is happening. There was a sense that he feels great foreboding and worry, both in relation to relations with China and with Russia. He has seen the writing on the wall, in other words. And it's not good. The values we stand for are under real threat from both these countries, led by people and regimes who are extremely hard to deal with. Can the West handle this level of opposition from TWO major powers at once? Younger seems to sense there is very grave threat.

[@robertstevenson5145]

Two things 1) China has seemed to deployed a high atmosphere global balloon communication and surveillance network.Its cheaper to make and operate balloons than building and launching a satellite. 2) the down side of shooting down the balloons could give china the go ahead to shoot at any American assets it feels violated their airspace and since they seem to extend their territory into what's know to others as international waters and airspace you can see the Delma it could put on another nation.However that said don't forget the US is guilty of the same thing.We have done it in the past and gave however the finger as we did it.

[@casteretpollux]

China has 300 plus satellites. Just like the US.

[@abrahamdozer6273]

Did the UK buy Huawei 5G technology?

[@bcanuck]

Looks like they had some and then decided to go with European or Japanese suppliers.

[@deedee-tc4fh]

Nuclear Reactors too when we could build our own 70 years ago..

[@timmojennings]

Woah my bad he did say that the answers lie and societal and put not an authoritative input wow dude that was amazing

[@gentlerelaxation]

HeavIly edited... or is it just me ? ... 🤔

[@owengreene382]

I spent Christmas in Sidney. What I was astonished me. I was outside the Queen Victoria shopping centre, on main street, having tea. I counted four Chinese and Asians for every one white person, entering the building. I said this to a middle-age Australian man at the next table. "Aaah," he said, "their calling Sidney, China Town now."

[@quadq6598]

Same in London

[@badluck5647]

Not all Asians are Chinese.

[@fishingstevie8830]

@@quadq6598 Worse in London and other citys in UK nowadays also .

[@fishingstevie8830]

@@badluck5647 NO ^ but you can tell them a mile off with their way of life a right dour lot who are unfriendliest of all Worlds peoples are the chinese ..Instance Japanese are a much nicer friendly people . I admit i dont like chinese for such reasons .

[@petermclelland278]

Said that in 1066 about 'William the Conqueror' "Bloody French are everywhere" !

[@FrontLinePub]

Can Britain be taken as a serious military or world power when it had to shrink its military because it has failed to meet it's recruitment goals multiple years in a row. The MetPolice is larger than the British combat arms force. The US and NATO NEED the UK to step up and be a leader beyond tough speeches. How one celebrate 14 tanks to Ukraine and think that's going to make a difference? The UK needs to double it's military and 4x it's military spending now before it's too late.

[@falconeaterf15]

Dude reminds me a bit of…….you know……that guy……was on a Soviet stamp once……um……Kim Philby ! Ya that’s the guy. Hehe.

[@Dweller415]

The concerns about the high altitude balloons are that they can carry first strike nuclear weapons or EMP devices to render the West neutral.

[@WOTArtyNoobs]

No. nuclear devices would be detectable with the emissions from the physics package. It is also against international law to drop bombs from balloons. According to the 1898 Hague Convention, it is against international law to drop bombs from balloons. Japan famously sent scores of balloon bombs to the American Pacific Coast during WWII, with the purpose of causing forest fires. While most landed harmlessly, one did cause casualties - a balloon that landed in a forest near Bly, Oregon, that exploded and killed a Sunday school teacher and five children. The practice of shooting a rifle or dropping a bomb from a balloon is still technically forbidden to this day.

[@geoffreyschofield8539]

Right on!

[@casteretpollux]

So was it clever to blow it up over the US ?

[@WOTArtyNoobs]

@@casteretpollux Yes - mainly to send a message to the Chinese or whoever launched it that this sort of spying would not be tolerated. Even if it was carrying a nuke, nukes have safety features which mean that they cannot detonate unless they are armed by a specific sequence. The Chinese would certainly not want one of their own nukes blowing accidently on their own soil. Ideally we need to find out precisely how the balloon is spying on American facilities and how it transmits the results back to the Chinese. My suspicion is that it was listening to transmissions over defense research areas and then retransmitting the data to Chinese satellites. They may have launched it from ships in the Pacific and it would be helpful to find out which ships are involved so they can be intercepted. Then we can disrupt their spying whilst their balloons are still ascending to operational altitudes. We know that a great number of balloons are being used for scientific research as American colleges use them daily. Most are used for weather monitoring and also to carry out Cosmic experiments that are cheaper by balloon than by satellite. If the Chinese are using balloons instead of satellites because they are attempting to gain electronic information, then we need to find a way to prevent them using this method. The balloons are a hazard to American civilians as well as a national defense liability. They could drop anywhere if they malfunction and balloons are not infallible.

[@gregariousclarke]

Very insightful interview!

[@dessmith7658]

Send in the challys mate

[@greyhorse1211]

Not sure why much excitement over a few balloons. The Chinese can see all they want in great detail from 100 plus military purpose satellites apparently. Why not just point this out?

[@dansenn]

This man would make a first rate PM!

[@julianshepherd2038]

Putin was kgb. Hasn't gone well.

[@badluck5647]

It has been more than 8 weeks, so the UK is due for another PM.

[@oldpain7625]

It's too bad to see the word "Former" in the title. He is needed today! Then again, perhaps he can accomplish more speaking to the public as a civilian than being an active MI6 officer. Or perhaps not. Who knows? Either way he's a pleasure to listen to, and conveys his thoughts pretty much perfectly.

[@delawaresimons1906]

PUTIN TO XI: Tomorrow is Valentine's Day Xi: I know. PUTIN: I want your hard rocket so bad! Xi: Where? PUTIN: You know. Xi: Want me to explode? PUTIN: Please. I need it.

[@jimscott1717]

Where could the chinese launch balloons from so that they could perform surveillance over Great Britain. Balloons are dependent on air currents to move them, how is it possible to control the direction of their travel. We should be looking at Politicians who are receiving funding from China, Chinese "Embassies" which are staffed by people supposedly to help with acquiring driving licences.

[@stephenbaker7079]

For goodness sake, can we not get RID of those pesky pathetic life insurance ads, disrupting serious international discussion on matters of extreme importance!

[@inekeaknoeff7761]

Wise words!

[@utternonsenseproductions2415]

Its all a distraction

[@marczimmerman8524]

They're very primitive. Good answers.

[@renatob9909]

🇬🇧 ❤

[@tedbaxter5234]

Bless Britain and Bless Ukraine!

[@nathaniel4334]

Interesting room he’s sitting in. Fascinating talk. Reassuring to know the UK still produces intelligent people like this.

[@RasAlHaq]

Came here to say this. Maybe he's in his grandson's flat?

[@donhansen1175]

The intrusion disrespects us. Don

[@ananamu2248]

The threat is of an aging and sagging autocrat stealing another bid for magnificence

[@mariajenner5486]

Who knows Everyone trying to put fear on people sick of it

[@38plymouth80]

For those that think this issue is trivial, imagine the sender puts a nuclear weapon on a balloon and sends it over. Boom .... and no way to know who sent it, who to retaliate against.

[@bradjames6748]

.....And yet stupidly all the G7 countries have yet to expel all the belligerent countries diplomats

[@ellenfaulkner7616]

Many countries including the USA has expelled many diplomats from foreign countries

[@noahidegenocide9600]

Hypersonic missles ? Maybe

[@larrydickman5936]

Chinese takeaway?

[@tekannon7803]

Excuse me for putting my two quid into the poker game of international politics, but as someone living 2,000 kilometers from Kiev, the war in Ukraine is heating up by the day and wouldn't the best way ahead for all of you who are at the spear point of western international politics be to observe the balloons and wait until they have finished crossing countries before making judgements? I am an artist and an inventor and I have no geopolitical experience, but I think the balloons are a sort of bait and that President Biden and others have taken the bait hook, line and sinker. I believe it was a miscalculation for the American Secretary of State to not have realized that the balloon showing itself off America's coast just one day before he was supposed to fly over and meet the President of China for an historic first time was done to have exactly that result. The Chinese are now in the news 24/7 and that's what this is all about and the quicker this spy-in-the-sky story gets off the front page the better. You're getting played and over-reacting to a sly move by the Chinese to have themselves front and center on the international stage.

[@ltipst2962]

Don't want to be played me.

[@99dynasty]

Most Chinese who go abroad tend to come back to China more liberalized. It’s a good thing for all parties.

[@AB-sr9mc]

how do you know that

[@oscarw7805]

Xi studied in the US...

[@alvindaugherty7587]

Jets Zelensky has been asking for has been said to be a hot topic but the question is, do they have trained pilots? Reports I have read stated NO, they don't.

[@tonupharry]

Will china take manchuria back?

[@andrewfiles4184]

The host is pretty good in trying to gain useful information but the guest appears rather bored and unwilling to share what he really knows, perhaps it’s the intelligence thing.. To that I say why do interviews?

[@hamesh3474]

This fellow offers excellent prospective.....

[@martinanderson4721]

Floreat Ukrania.

[@baldersn4474]

We couldnt stand up to the likes of China lol !! Were not a 'global player' anymore lol !

[@thruknobulaxii2020]

Our role in Ukraine is the _only_ thing we have to recommend us at present. Unless you’re a billionaire looking to hide your money.

[@marymarlow3646]

This is not the first time the UK has recognised and led the fight against a tyrant. When it comes to the serious stuff the UK is dependable. 👍🇦🇺

[@quadq6598]

Speak for yourself, many more want out of Ukraine, peace talks not more weapons.

[@thruknobulaxii2020]

@@quadq6598 thankfully, there are enough people around who’re smart enough to read Putin. And the people who’s opinion really matters are ready to fight. In any case, you cannot appease a criminal adventurer like him. IMO • atomic oblivion would be better than anything Putin could possibly describe as a win. But it won’t come to that.

[@ellenfaulkner7616]

@@quadq6598 Really?

[@ltipst2962]

@@thruknobulaxii2020 Appeasement is what got us here.

[@Chexsum]

you all need to learn to play together

[@vortigern3910]

CIA MI6 These are the fools that said Ukraine would be defeated in tree days so forgive me if i flush this guys opinion down the Bog.

[@SilvanMarty]

Biden in this time have to acting! Merkel times gone. Hopefully really politicians and society's ready to protect they way of life and accept happy only blind consume its gone. We must living likely before but saying we want this!

[@pmcd6414]

I remember an ex British military intelligence officer, he went to run the middle East Twitter branch, around the time of the Arab spring. Probably another coincidence.

[@notheotherklaus]

This is not a very critical interview, is it: not a single question on western surveillance of China.

[@fishingstevie8830]

You talking about Western u mean Usa ?

[@MrThartofwar]

Of course there is more important things than the Balloons, like the American terrorist attack, on the nord stream pipe line :)

[@ragingmonk6080]

"Former Chief of MI6 Sir Alex Younger" and I can not disagree more when it comes to Ukraine. The excuse of "Putin may see this", is an excuse. Ukraine does not meet the European Economic Standard and never has. It will not be part of the EU. Ukraine does not and will not have a NATO level military. They post videos of themselves chasing a dozen dismounted Russian infantry with a Ukrainian tank and engaging with the main cannon, repeatedly. I have said for months that Ukraine is the Orc like version. They fight like WWI soldiers that were Soviet. They waste ammo because they are very poor fighters. Jens Stoltenberg recently spoke of Ukraine's use of ammo faster than we can manufacture it. I know they fire 6,000 to 7,000 rounds of artillery a day. They (Ukraine troops) post videos, two Russians in a field, artillery barrage. They need to be be given only what they need at the supply they need. No western jets either.

[@ravikurup8350]

The UK should send more aid to Ukraine. Forget about the normal hardworking tax payers of the UK. Sunaks friends went to Oxford. 🤣