“Mass extinction is already underway” - Peter Frankopan on how humans have shaped the earth

“We're the only species who have worked out to blow up everything and kill everyone”. In his latest book, The Earth Transformed, Peter Frankopan takes on the entirety of the history of planet earth, and looks at how our lives have been shaped by environmental changes since the dawn of our planet, 4.5 billion years ago, until the present day. He tackles the transformation of the earth, teasing apart the connection between humans and climate, explaining how “we are the product of massive climate change in the past”, and looks ahead to crises anew.
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In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Peter Frankopan sits down with Krishnan Guru-Murthy to discuss how humans have impacted the world, the existential threat posed by nuclear war and global superpowers, and what happens “when the music stops”.
Produced by: Imahn Robertson
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[@zerocool1ist]

I was once looking at a lobster in a tank floating staring at me and i asked it, i wonder what it is you might think about are different worlds? The lobster took a moment and looked at me kinda sideways and said "Human beings are the only creatures on Earth "that claim a God. "And the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one. "Does the world belong to no one but you?" And when he said it, I was taken back. Not because of who was doing the talking, because I finally understood the connection between children scavenging for food and shiny brass plates on the front doors of banks.

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

Humankind don't like to admit, in some aspects, that many birds and bees and trees are much more intelligent than us. It's our arrogance that deny it.

[@catherinekeller4230]

Good comment if they could only speak ( that we could understand!) What a story and a telling off we would get perhaps even a wake up call ....although that's dubious!.

[@volkerengels5298]

anaerobic creatures(!) have killed themselves. -> GOE. May be they where dumb. Don't know ;-) each specie would destroy - if accidently reproducing in mass. We have no enemy (..virus) ....and reproduce in mass *on high energy level. The Intelligence you claimed has a godlike insight in evolution. Or the combined intelligence of every living thing in for example amazon.

[@subhashchandrasinha2460]

Nowadays I am reading this book . One thing impressed me is the honesty and evidence based interpretation the author has given . Unless one goes through the entire book one will not be able to understand the present developments like climate change and the economic and social changes occurring around us . A book all students should read to understand history and the world.

[@jonathaneffemey944]

Thanks for posting

[@CS-zj8ex]

One of the problems we face is that people think humans and mankind are the apex of life on earth! Ego centric view of man!

[@tech9110]

Humans can be the apex living things of this world if they learn and understand everything around them. They can, but they won't.

[@ferrari0323]

The Ego which doesn't let the Globe go. When mankind realizes that the Earth is not spinning then we will be free again.

[@reuireuiop0]

You got it all wrong there. I am the apex of all life, not the rest of 'm !

[@DrSmooth2000]

​@@reuireuiop0sadly you are healthy mindset

[@ronaldkable]

This book sounds great, look forward to reading it

[@OrianJamieson28]

That was an amazing interview. He's soooo insightful. loved that!

[@dshimmin1]

Actually it's new york state, not new york city that uses as much electricity as sub saharan africa (excluding south africa). Still doesn't undermine the point you were making there... but still worth getting such facts straight.

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

Don't think they use that much electricity in Buffalo, let alone Albany. 🇺🇸🙃🙂

[@arghjayem]

I think it would have been simpler to state that energy consumption per capita in the US is about 13,000KwH. Whereas in sub Saharan Africa it’s only about 180KwH per capita. But he was clearly just trying to illustrate how power hungry western societies are in comparison to other less developed countries. The West being slaves to growth and technology. As one man once put it “The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in “advanced” countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in “advanced” countries.” I mean the US is one of the richest and technologically advanced countries on the planet, yet for the past couple of years the US life expectancy has been declining likely because a large proportion of US citizens don’t have easy access to basic healthcare despite all the medical advances and advantages the country has. And that’s who the U.K. government seems to be modelling the NHS after!?!?

[@DrSmooth2000]

​@@arghjayemmuch of it is s_icide or half intentional via drugs and drink. Unsure if free psychiatry alone would fix it but couldn't hurt

[@beautifulcrazy]

Wow, I need to read this book.

[@hopefull2070]

This eloquent man is not an activist, he is a professor of knowledge. Excellent interview!

[@jokesonyou1373]

Just another pseudo scientist

[@jokesonyou1373]

@Pj Mack ouch!

[@jamesr9895]

Read the first 3 chapters of Earth Transformed. Brilliant book I'd recommend big but written v well.

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

In 8000BC, Britain and Ireland was part of mainland Europe. Then suddenly the sea arose. The Irish natural landbridge was from modern day Pembrokeshire in Wales. Anyone fancy a mammoth steak? Walrus?

[@reuireuiop0]

Don't think mammoth steaks today are very fresh, so lemme have a bite of walrus. Coocoo-cachoo !

[@mirandajames9246]

Also - i liked the references to The Epic of Gilgamesh. Also Charles Dickens' Bleak House and the observation of coal smoke pollution poisoning cities. Dickens also wrote in a chapter of Dombey and Son a critical description of pollution and environment damage in the cities, and the impact on people - especially the poor. The question is how much have we actually learnt in around 250 years about preservation of life and conservation in nature above consumerism and capitalism ? 😮

[@DrSmooth2000]

You'll find now, or soon, the Greens are pro smog. Particulates block sun from reaching ocean

[@alphonser272]

Heard Frankopan's silk roads book was very good. I look forward to reading that and maybe Earth Transformed soon. Dude is clearly very intelligent

[@tastypymp1287]

'Dude'.... Grow up, get off your computer and go outside.

[@casteretpollux]

Agriculture and industry not just climate has done it.

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

Once a squirrel could get off a boat in Dover, and get to Scotland by jumping from tree to tree, uninterrupted.

[@juanribeiro73]

Squirrels didn't need to eat or sleep back in those days.

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

@@juanribeiro73 Plenty of nuts and acorns on the way. 👍

[@juanribeiro73]

@@huwzebediahthomas9193 A supersonic squirrel then?

[@stanleydaisy]

Once a squirrel didn’t need a boat to get to Dover!

[@northwestcoast]

Once a squirrel, always a squirrel

[@mirandajames9246]

Ive read the entire book and my mind is dizzy, but further enlightened. A highly comprehensive series of observstions and research of everything and everyway the plsnet, evolution of universe, life and nature connect, snd how human societies have evolved, adapted and altered the natured - good or bad. Clearly societies ultimately pay a high price for disregarding the 'laws of nature'. Thank you for such a significant publication. 🙂🌏🌌🩵

[@tobewithyouhoo]

I did not hear him speak about demographics. If every couple has just one child we can reduce the human population from 8 billion to 2 billion in just two generations

[@DrSmooth2000]

Not fun lives. We seem so far to suit 8bn. I was worried at 6 as a teen. 2b more and noting different

[@liberty-matrix]

"There are huge non climate effects of carbon dioxide which are overwhelmingly favorable which are not taken into account. To me that's the main issue that the earth is actually growing greener. This has been actually measured from satellites the whole earth is growing greener as a result of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. So it's increasing agricultural yields, it's increasing the forests, it's increasing all kinds of growth in the biological world and that's more important and more certain than the effects on climate." ~Freeman Dyson, Institute of Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey.

[@arghjayem]

06:40 I agree five mile island, Chernobyl, the melt down in Japan were all significant disasters that have had deadly consequences on people and the planet, but the fact remains that nuclear power is a far more viable source of energy than solar power and is far more environmentally friendly than carbon based power. Don’t get me wrong when nuclear goes bad, it’s really bad, but consider that despite the radiation there is still life growing and existing at Chernobyl- both plant and animal. And eventually once it decays nuclear radiation will be gone. However carbon, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide etc etc aren’t going anywhere. Even if we stopped using all forms of fossil fuel be it for energy production or for transportation, the damage is already there and won’t disappear after hundreds of years. 09:06 or just look at Easter Island. Like a miniature version of man’s impact on the environment. They cut down all the trees to build their monuments, changed the climate of the island and effectively halted the growth of anymore trees. And once they’d used up the remaining trees and resources they effectively killed themselves and the island.

[@terryo5672]

I like the way he deflects the question around becoming a climate activist. Good response, he cares about sustainability but deflected the anthropogenic climate change bait.

[@gege4707]

but globalisation and immigration to the west are good things?? but how do we offset all the carbon these extra people generate hold on, i thought we needed less people in industrialised nations to lower emmisions why are our governments encouraging and accepting mass migrqation? surely its just exacerbating co2!!

[@kitersrefuge7353]

@14:26: "...Science and technology will solve...". We have added over 4000 Gigatons (4000 Billion tons) of CO2 since 1776. Prey tell, what tech can sequester enough of that (including the CH4 that is now triggered by the tipping points) to keep us under 1.5 centigrade, in the say next 7 to 10 years? The statement is so assanine it is comical. btw, not withstanding the 4+ gigatons we add each year currently. We face horrors beyond our capabilities to imagine today when climate __collapse__ comes a knockin. @15:50 "...other people whose suffering is going to be accuter...": hahahaha mate, tell me that when you have to pack your bags and migrate either to the extreme north or the extreme south; anyone worth their know-how knows that Northern Hemisphere climate change is happening 3 or 4 times faster than anywhere else, and that the ensuing catastrophe of the jetstream slowing is going to mean that the very people that are pushing back migrants, will become Climate Collapse migrants themeselves.

[@volkerengels5298]

10:25 slave trade I once read an interpretation of the *plague in Europe* as a driving factor in European expansion. "Get away from horror and find sure places!" In addition, the survivors of the plague were probably very resistant to diseases. It is indeed remarkable what a large role plagues play in this story.

[@reuireuiop0]

Plagues will also play a major role in bringing down 8bn world pop to something Earth might be able to support on the long term

[@volkerengels5298]

@@reuireuiop0 We have >400 Nuclear Power Plants on earth. They need maintenance. Always. You got the idea....?

[@DrSmooth2000]

​@@volkerengels5298they always have illiterate asylum seekers to run the plants

[@GjbMcN]

Peter Frankopan Silk Roads challenged Eurocentricity but Earth Transformed expands Historical questioning challenging traditionally held “causation” putting it more into lucky/unlucky correlations. Opinions where judgements using words like “Great” “Heroes” “leaders” “industrious” and “pioneering” requiring a more skeptical reassessment.

[@ikm64]

"All things come to pass"... Now what part of that do you have trouble accepting.

[@sheilahendrix5935]

May❤️ God 💚Be 💛With💙 Everyone💚 Always 💙Much 💜Love❤️ Blessings💚 Always ☺️ 🎇💯✌️🌈🌐💚💚💛💛💛💚💚💜💜💜💚💜💜💜

[@bobcosmic]

Homicide,Suicide, Genocide, Regicide......... you can finish off the rest !

[@CT-vm4gf]

IT? Information Technology?

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

The elephant in the room eight billion human beings...

[@django3422]

It's not about population numbers, its about rate of resource consumption.

[@gmenezesdea]

The top 1% pollute on a scale greater than most individuais. So the main issue is not the world's population

[@naderkhodadadi]

Cause and effect.

[@georgepotter1820]

Evolution or extinction? Are we able to learn to live in harmony with each other, nature and technology including AI? Sustainability not profitability. Mindfulness and self love, respect not exploitation. Our species faces a major die off, the population is passing the peak, passing a tipping point where our population goes from exponential growth to a transition to a new sustainable relationship with the ecosystem that has sustained us up until now. That downward curve can be as steep as a cliff which falls to zero, extinction, or it can begin steeply and recover as it returns to historic levels of sustainability, pre-technology levels such as pre-Columbian America. This could lead to a selection pressure that would produce a new species of hominid, speciation. The curve could be more gentle and could include technological solutions that would level off at a population that could both live more harmoniously with nature and each other and incorporate technology that would represent an evolution into a new species of technologically enhanced humanity, cyborgs. Taking life to other planets, terraforming and evolving new species of humans who could survive other planetary ecologies is another path that will require technologies including genetic engineering to reach for the stars. Managing these changes in a moral and humane way brings hope to a future that appears very scary from our selfish and ethnocentric perspectives. Keep up the good work or as John Perkins says "Dream True" instead of living like the hero of his book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman." Be blessed, you are a blessing. Aboriginal cultures have much to teach us.

[@stormsurge9953]

You got to look at why we work for money and how it is spent to find the culprit and wasted produced

[@JimmyTimmy-wh8dz]

The size of his brain is amazing..

[@JohanThiart]

😂The Ancient Greeks thought if we do not look after the world we will die. Who would have thought? I liked Silk Road better. “By necessity this makes our frames of reference both highly self- and species-centred and laughably narrow.” Laughably……. ? Strange conclusion…. Sounds very reasonable to me that humans will think like that.

[@angeloterribili3525]

What an intellectual statement 😃😃😃 were all prisoner's of history. Or don't you know that

[@catherinekeller4230]

We are not prisoners of it...we need to learn from it. We are prisoners of not opening our hearts and minds to the problems that animals, humans, and our natural world face every day, no matter what background, & race you come from, we could all help & support our world.

[@monirelhanafy9606]

I have come up with the invention of a device that is connected to the exhaust pipes of motors (gasoline and diesel) of cars, trucks, chimneys of ships and factories, in order to extract the harmful substances attached to the emissions and fumes that result from the combustion of petroleum materials, diesel fuel and all types of fuels (each according to the type of burned material). ) And I conducted several initial experiments and proved 100% successful. And he is ready to manufacture it, conduct experiments, and make laboratory measurements in front of elite scientists, in order to solve the problem of global warming and air pollution around the globe. The invention is ready for sale to any international company or organization. Thank you

[@StratsRUs]

Very grey

[@ChickpeatheTortie]

It will happen - one only has to read a couple of history books and its not a pretty picture.

[@naderkhodadadi]

Or wisdom.

[@tracybailey680]

Very interesting interview. Krishnan, would love to see you interview Jason Hickel on degrowth theory ...

[@sheilahendrix5935]

Peace 💛and ❤️Blessings 💚Too 💜My 💙Brothers ❤️May 💚God 💚Bless 💛Everyone ❤️Always 💜May💙 God ❤️Bless 💚Everyone💚 Richly 💛with ❤️everything 💜they💚 need ❤️Always 💚Much 💜Love💜 Blessings❤️ Always ☺️ 🎇🌈🌐✌️💯💚❤️❤️💛💛💛💛💛💛💛

[@JimmyTimmy-wh8dz]

HUMANS..

[@anapenteado7227]

I think his conclusion is relevant but the way he construe his thesis is very UK centric - to say that the Middle East is only important in the last century is to ignore that Europe went through Dark Ages of science and medicine that came from the Middle East or Asia Minor or to ignore the Alexander the Great in Persia.... So I take his theory with caution albeit the result is agreeable.

[@tomcolley9008]

Well he wrote a whole massive book about how the path of Silk Roads were vital to understanding history, so to call him UK centric is a bit rich. He's right in saying that 150 years ago what is now Saudi Arabia was not not significant geo politically. It is now. Perhaps spare your judgement until you read his book, rather than trashing his thesis because of one line in a 35 minute interview.

[@vincentkosik403]

So we are just too clever, not too intelligent

[@Rnankn]

Despite his breadth and depth of historical research on the topic, his politics and prescriptions seemed woefully lacking, which was disappointing. If people with credibility don’t insist change is necessary, and explain why it is far less likely to ever happen.

[@andrewchoi5808]

#stopextinction #savetheplanet

[@reuireuiop0]

Stop the Planet Save Extinction 😂

[@irvingkurlinski]

speculation

[@sebastianb.1926]

new-clee-ur, not new-kew-ler!

[@reuireuiop0]

Wot-evuh !

[@ebonyaiken1874]

This was really interesting to watch and hear the things they are telling us about. I think people should listen to this. I

[@pargevkarapetyan2251]

Grate human being,which one love knowledge. Think’s telling base on grate knowledge of everything and very logical . Thank you for invite this kind of smart people 👏👍

[@WhoAmEye_WhoAreEwe]

I don't want to be 'that guy'....but just for your info - it should be " great " Nice comment though 👍

[@PhillCurtis]

Eye opening 🙏 thank you for this series

[@mannatuu]

As an empiricist, and crude determinist ie a vulgar determinist , Frankopan has no ability to abstract the overall law governed tendencies that are playing out here. His contribution is a hodge podge of disconnected generalities based on appearances. A ''bit of this here a bit of that there'', based on a pick and mix of history. Sadly this obscures not only the actual historical process itself , but the solution which he is obviously seeking . Such empiricists fail to escape the ideology that limits them , and so are destined to herald a (non existent) reformism of capitalism based on notions of common sense and morality, regardless of the fact that capitalism as ''a thing'' is not only the singular 'one and only' social system in existence, it is also not regulated or reducible to human psychology. Thus its very limited response to commonsense and morality. As such its inherent logic dictates it cannot be reformed and 'must' be replaced.

[@gigiduru3522]

So ... I have 3 university degrees and I kept listening for half the interview, trying to understand why this sounds so dumb ... Until he brought up LED lights and presented those as one solution ... That clarified it .. he talks 1000% rambling nonsense ...

[@mahasimha8379]

Start to use horses instead of cars..Simple .

[@tensaijuusan4653]

"And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem, to be born."

[@Badlighter]

Great quote. Also used in Oliver Stone’s Nixon.

[@thegame9305808]

Not now but will happen certainly

[@django3422]

No, its already started. We're not talking about a singular event.

[@ez3333]

Hmmmm

[@izzythompson9982]

Co2 the gas of Life is greening our planet(leaf area index)

[@jayshah8502]

One of the best interviews in this series in my opinion. Certainly curious enough to find out more about Mr. Peter Frankopan and his book. Thank you Channel4 and Krishnan Gurumurthy for "Ways to change the world".

[@terryo5672]

We’ve been too busy with net zero, transgender and BLM rather than bing concerned with the real problems in the world.

[@naderkhodadadi]

Information is not knowledge.

[@briana.caldwell763]

I did a search with the phrase "tweakers know how to take things apart," as I am trying to explain the situation I am in to people who appear to be, without a second thought, only able to do the most destructive or injurious things to others. And then under the search phrase 'tweakers know how to take things apart," I found this in the line of youtube entries on "tweakers," and this explains quite well, "Hey, happy happy happy, mass extinction is already underway!!!" And just the smilingest guy saying so in the picture here. "Inappropriate affect" is when the emotion of the (nutcase) is not concomitant with the content or substance of the experience or issue. Why is this guy happy with this? Does he not see a problem? I have seen this "inappropriate affect" emotionally of also "Sadistic Personality Disorder," as to, I don't quite understand why this is funny. "We Came, We Saw, He Died," about the leader of Libya, why is that funny? It is not funny. He was dragged through the streets just really an evil thing to do. I don't think the "US/Israel" military style is the best of what could be here.

[@OldScientist]

The mass extinction is not already on its way. On extinction the rate is very low: 900 known lost species for 2.1 million known species in 500 years. At that frequency it will take over 930,000 years to reach 80% extinction of species experienced at the K-T boundary that saw the extinction of the dinosaurs. Of course, extinction is a natural part of the evolution of life on this planet with the average lifespan of a species thought to be about 1 million years. It is estimated that 99.9% of all plant and animal species that have existed have gone extinct. So to summarise, from observations there are an average of slightly less than 2 species lost every year. Out of a known species total of over 2 million. That gives an annual percentage loss of less than 0.0001%. That's background extinction. It does not follow from this that we shouldn't cherish and nurture the life that there is on this planet, but it is important to have a clear perspective on the situation.

[@prophetsnake]

Nope, that's a lie.

[@OldScientist]

@@prophetsnake So what is the truth?

[@prophetsnake]

@@OldScientist Nice try.

[@OldScientist]

@prophetsnake Well, it would be nice if you were to try.

[@prophetsnake]

@@OldScientist I don't argue with liars.

[@sonicstep]

07:00 the way he reflects reminds me of Jordan Peterson.

[@StratsRUs]

Scattered and cloudy

[@sonicstep]

@@StratsRUs You hit the nail on the head. 😂

[@Gecmajster123456]

video funded by WEF

[@reuireuiop0]

Who pays your comments?

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

The only issue with the climate is that with carbon dioxide levels at a fraction of a percent, if it falls any further there is a risk that plants won't be able to photosynthesise and we will all starve. Life on Earth will end. What we need is more CO2, like we used to have and LIFE FLOURISHED🌞 🌞🌲🌳🌴🌳🌲🌞🌞

[@django3422]

Pretty clear misrepresentation there, since C02 levels are rising.

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

@@django3422 Good. And it's got naff all to do with the weather.

[@johnstoddard9352]

There's no risk of plants not growing, they use far less of the CO2 than is available. Unlike a fat person who eats all he can, plants use what they need. You are poorly informed and speaking nonsense.

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

@@johnstoddard9352 Absolute nonsense John.... plant's need carbon dioxide and water. Below 250ppm life will fail. Why are crops grown in glasshouses given an enhanced CO2 environment?

[@django3422]

@@JamesSmith-qs4hx And everything to do with human industrial activity. The effects on weather is like a symptom.

[@shevashevasheva777]

chicken little

[@selfpreservationsociety]

I don't care anymore, so what

[@metapol118]

The Europeans should of stayed in Europe

[@ghostinbruh7798]

This guy stutters so much I lost interest

[@skysoftware4581]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

Man is doomed, doomed. Doomed I tell yer! (shut up Frazier...) Have you heard of the story - of - the - haunted - empty - barn? There was nothing in it.

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

@@davidbaldwin521 Thank God I am not alone remembering that. Thanks. 👍😁😎

[@susanb4816]

Get rid of gurumurthy please he has no business asking anyone anything

[@rimonagoiti333]

This is a lie. A big one. IT will come a masa distruction but becouse of sin. The Holy Anger of God will come... ..to read Romans 1

[@run2cat4run]

What do you mean this is “a lie”?

[@ferrari0323]

​@@run2cat4runeverything is a lie. Even the Earth is Flat and Stationary. THEY lied about everything.

[@run2cat4run]

@@ferrari0323 so you think you live in the dice world

[@Aubury]

Oh get a grip