Why Motorcycles and Mountain Bikes Cost the Same

[@stitch3163]

Ah the days when I tripled the value of my car by putting my road bike on top.

[@onesquirrel2713]

Ha ha, relatable!

[@DixiPoowa]

LOL Ok, I'm stealing this ahah

[@tsubakitengai]

Shit, I can do that by filling the tank.

[@ljprep6250]

@@tsubakitengai Two points!

[@ljprep6250]

(snort) 😜

[@angrychilimango630]

As a mountain biker myself, I have to say mountain bike companies have gotten extremely greedy especially during covid .

[@redlight3932]

frugal is your word

[@angrychilimango630]

@@redlight3932you mean smart with money ? I’ll take it.

[@JonGaull]

Having worked in the bike industry for more than 10 years I can say this is false. Bike companies operate on slim margins and run on passion. The cost of bikes increased during the pandemic because the cost of container shipping went up more than 5x in just a few months. Additionally bicycle supply chains take at least 1 years to respond to changes in demand due to manufacturing lead times. The only way to keep in the black as a bike company paying for 2x as many bikes in 2021 as you purchased in 2020 would be to raise prices, even on existing stock.

[@The_Ballo]

Stop. Not all mountain bikers are absolutely clueless about economics.

[@-whackd]

Don't break your collarbone or lose all your teeth on a handlebar

[@isaakwelch3451]

I remember just getting into the bicycle world when my dads brand new carbon fiber trek got rear ended on the back of our SUV. The insurance company looked up the price of every single part of that bike because they couldn't believe it cost so much.

[@caseyboone7018]

300 hundred for just the spokes!? 😰

[@isaakwelch3451]

@@yuth8713 it was on the car. Strapped to the back of it on a bike rack

[@isaakwelch3451]

@@yuth8713 I couldn't say if they would or wouldn't. All I can do is relay my personal experience that in that particular instance they reluctantly did.

[@isaakwelch3451]

@@yuth8713 In the US

[@MyNameisStorm]

It depends on your policy.@@yuth8713

[@FancyAnimal]

For $18,000 you can have a Specialized Tarmac SL8 pedal road bike or a 215hp BMW S1000RR super bike. This pricing is purely a function of sporting good market pricing vs automotive market pricing. Mfg and delivery costs are not even remotely close for these 2 products.

[@CleverAccountName303]

If profit margins are so extreme for bicycles, then there should be plenty of competition in the market.

[@iebe4388]

I mean no, that's not how competition works, if all the companies charge a shit load of money, it still stays expensive, also look at decathlon, my gravel bike is 630 euros, it has done more downhill than most downhill mtb's

[@ffffffff-vv7yp]

@@CleverAccountName303 That's only assuming customers are willing to trust a significantly cheaper product and the manufacturer is prepared to upscale a lot just to create a low margin huge business. Even if they did, why not just build for 1k and sell for 5k? Quite a small operation remains viable without the need to source or invest millions and billions of high interest someones money?

[@CleverAccountName303]

@@iebe4388So you have evidence that good bikes are not that expensive. Does that mean consumers are stupid?

[@gk5891]

A product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Period!!!! Price to produce only effects whether the product will continue.

[@nifty_biscuit]

That last "It's in neutral" joke floored me. The writers at FortNine always hit

[@arturalmeida9295]

This line got me heheheh

[@ChummiaChan]

I'm flatlined from this joke lol

[@ShubhamAtkare]

I'm rolling on the floor

[@samyohangsubba3748]

🤣🤣💀

[@hancholito4478]

I died and "it's in neutral" is written on my tombstone

[@sm51259]

As a former mountain biker for like 10+ years now into motorbikes, this was one of the best pieces of content I’ve ever seen

[@shaundisch2020]

This finally answers the question I've always wondered! I buy used bikes and motorcycles, they rarely get ridden, there are so many near virgin bikes out there to slay! 😂

[@bvonm9557]

good for youuuu

[@osplimos2378]

​​@@shaundisch2020good ol' "rode it 4 times, got a tire puncture and never bothered to fix it"

[@Ferrari255GTO]

​@@shaundisch2020 yeah, especially bikes it's very easy to find good bargains compared to new bikes, ones with just 3 or 4 years already cost half as much and often with little maintenance they go back to perfect shape. I bought a 2009 Demo 8 for 600 bucks and i never thought i would get my hands on a bike i like so much (neither did i know before that i did). It's black and red like i wanted, it's the correct size for me and i love the geometry it has, with the main negative point being that the area arond the shock is so crowded that it's a nightmare to clean

[@shaundisch2020]

@Ferrari255GTO Nice!!! I got a Specialized Pitch FS with a Chris King headset for $200 at a Pawn Shop. Used it for 4 years and sold it for $600. I think they listed it for what they paid for it accidentally, not sure. Love those lucky deals.

[@marcusgilliam3269]

extremely high priced mountain bikes available during COVID are why I purchased my first dirt bike. Everything seemed like a deal next to a $5,000 pedal machine.

[@GeddyRC]

No joke, I bought my KTM 350 for about $10K with all the crating costs and all that included (this was back in 2014 mind you), makes no sense how a bicycle can be in that same price range when an entire motorcycle engineered to jump a hundred feet and not blow to pieces can be the same price.

[@IgnacioDure]

i bought my Baja rouser ns 200 (the famous ktm duke 200 for latin america) used for 1500 usd, great bike for the city 8k MTB is the best bussines, you can have the same bike made by you for 2k @@GeddyRC

[@ccmmrrnn]

@@IgnacioDure no you can't.

[@33jayy]

​@@IgnacioDureIn India it's called the "Bajaj Pulsar 200NS"

[@gerrade71278]

Yeah I bet the data on people that opted out of the hobby since COVID is eyewatering. This video is like: "it's because of a picky customer base" rather than forced BS industry "standards" lol.

[@rolandcolavizza5368]

The cycling industry is really ripping us off. I mean how many moving parts is in a motor bike compared to a bicycle , and they still can't make a round bottom bracket

[@FlyingPastilla]

True and the argument about riding what the pros are using is BS. All pro teams get special frames with optimised layouts so you actually can't even buy what they are using even though it looks the same.

[@colebierplease8448]

As a cyclist and a lifelong motorcycle rider, there is no way bicycle companies can justify the $7-10k they charge except that there are people with money who are willing to pay it because in their world, spending more money on something than the next guy means something…SMH

[@Agm1995gamer]

Top dollar bicycle are made of carbon fiber Motorcycles are made of steel. The price differences in production machinery alone is huge, let alone the material itself.

[@chrissy.v]

@@Agm1995gamer so is the production of engines, gearboxes, electronics ect. in motorcycles. Sorry but there is just no way asking the same price for both is fair

[@dw0095]

You think that's crazy, look at the price for wheelchairs

[@manitolas]

Yeah, carbon.. Almost forbiden from dh and hard enduro races cos is dangerous to broke, same weight with alu for the same reason... Roadies is their specialty and trail-xc, agree with the cost of production,but they didn't do anything to change that😉 money is good for the corps.

[@jackfalcon5352]

...Did you miss the point of the video? People dont bitch about the cost of a Ferrari, its just a thing that exists. You can buy a great bike for 2500 bucks, a 10 grand bike is comparable to a Ferrari, no one is forcing you to buy one but its pretty amazing to drive.

[@FudgeMonkeySmurf]

This is so funny. I remember doing this calculation about four years ago when I was looking to buy a mountain bike for my local downhill trails in sunny old Englandshire... I literally could not get my head around the equivalence of cost between mountain bikes and motorcycles. I realised that I could actually hire a 7K plus downhill mountain bike for £70 for day at the weekend. I worked out I would need to go mountain biking every weekend for 2 years before it would equate to the retail cost of the bike. Anyway, long story short, I bought a motorcycle. ;O)

[@charlienyc1]

That's a great point. If ever I find myself wanting to ride an MTB, renting is something I will surely consider.

[@alsa4real]

Which motorcycle?

[@Daniel-dj7fh]

winwin I'd say. I'm deep into the gravel biking lifestyle. I've done my thinking and the max I'd say I'd spend on a bicycle is

[@Daniel-dj7fh]

I highly recommend looking into gravel riding, it's less mtb but faster road riding in the woods@@charlienyc1

[@Renovatio2142]

the only problem with this logic is that after two years you have something to sell to get your money back...so owning is renting if you know how to maintain and handle right....

[@yordankrushkov8488]

Being both a mtb user and dual sport bike rider I found this video extremely relatable and funny. Bought a used canyon spectral carbon recently at a very good price and still costs more than what I can get for my 2001 Transalp lol

[@2m7b5]

It never really occurred to me, but the first proper MTB frame I bought cost about as much as my first motorcycle.

[@I_THE_ME]

You mean Canyon Spectral? Because Specialized doesn't make a bike named Spectral.

[@will7its]

And people wonder why everything is so expensive.....

[@EscurKo]

But why you need that? I own a 300 EUR Merida crossway bike and it's perfectly fine. Whatever you guys are doing to your MTB is like buying a Motocross bike, then going aftermarket and factory everything. It's pretty easy to get a motorcycle at 100k+ this way 😅

[@robertcowley-yamamoto4880]

​@@EscurKoSurvivability mainly. I used to ride my cheap MTB with my brother and his friends, I was constantly breaking components and having trouble keeping up with their higher end bikes. Eventually I actually broke my frame going over a small huck, cheap bikes just aren't built to the same standard.

[@rickybungalow8839]

the mountain bike arguements werent that solid

[@Ardeact]

Yeah they were mostly subjective, he's ignoring the biggest elephant in the room

[@leeeng478]

I live and bike in the real world. No one I know rides $7000 bikes. Surprisingly the old school rim brake bikes outnumber the disc bikes for commuting along with single speeds. In the world of reality the disc bikes are to fragile!

[@el_Orate]

Yeap.. actually they were just bs.

[@SpeedLogicRacing]

@@leeeng478 Nobody buys a $7k mountain bike to commute like you would on a single speed, that's just dumb. Totally different market. Try riding a black diamond downhill trail on a single speed with rim brakes and see how far you get... In the real world you'll find $7k+ bikes all day long at trails and downhill parks, but it's obvious you've never been to one otherwise you wouldn't have made such an asinine comment.

[@alexander1055]

​@@leeeng478Yes and scooters outnumber proper Motorcycles too. Regular Bicycles are overpriced too.

[@brianrainey2739]

The transition from aluminum/steel frames to carbon fibre appeared to give the manufacturers a free pass to jack the prices on everything. There are so many sub-categories of mtn bikes now that even industry insiders have a hard time explaining them. I ride sportbikes, mtn bikes, and road bikes so I have no dog in this fight, just money exiting my wallet. 😄

[@johnlesoudeur3653]

The number of bike categories are nearly matching the number of BB standards now.

[@alf3071]

carbon is so stupid I hope they will eventually stop making carbon stuff

[@corail53]

And now the industry is going back to aluminum. The whole industry goes in circles and tries to remarket old working tech as new because they have nothing more to add, we are at the point of diminishing returns and squeezing whatever they can to get people to continue buying. The prices are high because people stupidly believe in the hype marketing and buy these over priced things and the companies keep getting away with it. Carbon Fiber as a manufacturing cost is relatively low once you get the molds set up - people will then usually defend the companies citing R&D but that is just a bs justification they have for over paying.

[@Mountain-Viking]

Crazy fact, is that carbon cost less and is faster to manufacture than aluminium

[@ogasi1798]

price increase came before carbon i assure you - see my post above

[@Simoxs7]

I thought my parents were crazy when they bought 2 E-Bikes that each cost the same as I paid for my F800GS… and I honestly still think they’re crazy

[@AarPlays]

Mark up on e-bikes is insane because of the small market and the fact that no one will undercut because everyone uses white label Chinese factory bikes.

[@hannahranga]

Makes more sense in locations where getting a motorbike licence requires a fair amount of effort plus you're saving on a real helmet and leathers cos apparently people don't fall off ebikes. Being on bicycle lanes if you've got good local infrastructure is also likely safer.

[@davesmith3561]

You know something? I honestly think your are right.

[@JohnFromAccounting]

You don't need a license for an e-bike. You don't pay registration. They're easier to take places. There are genuine reasons to get an e-bike over a motorcycle.

[@ebiebrahimi7472]

@@JohnFromAccountingcant compare . Riding a motorcycle is a whole different world .

[@MattKester]

“Look at all those colors.” That one’s never gonna get old!

[@PaulSpades]

Should've sold him on a Royal Enfield.

[@MSUTri]

The funny part is that most bicycle manufacturers have just one or two colors per model per trim level. Most motorcycle manufacturers generally give at least two. And if you get certain motorcycles, like a touring BMW, there are low and standard suspension heights, multiple seat heights or an adjustable seat, and potentially adjustable handlebars. So there's more to it than the simplified version shown in the video.

[@Broodjemetbeleg]

Unless it's canyon lol, I hate their color selection.

[@MultiFinly]

No debate mountain bikes are totally overpriced.

[@Dannyb201]

100% I'm not doing bike anymore and just bought a motorcycle this week because bikes are crazy overpriced. For the same price I have an engine that can commute on highways... no debates at all

[@SamuelLewin24]

@@Dannyb201 they are different sports entirely, while yes it definetely costs a lot of money for bikes, you have to keep in mind that you don't have to buy a $8,000 bike but you kind of have to buy a $8000 motorcycle it costs companies a lot of money to design and test the new models, as well as create 5 different types of bikes a year, whereas motorcycles often use the same design for a while. (And I would say its more fair to compare them to a dirtbike not a street bike)

[@GodfreyFirstEldenLord]

@@SamuelLewin24literally nobody asked them to create 5 new bicycles a year especially since I’m not the one buying them. There’s no reason to defend this shit. I should not have to expect to pay 1200-1500€ for a bicycle that is somewhat decent. Bicycles are way to overpriced especially since governments like the German government are so keen on controlling everything and making it illegal to drive a motorcycle for no reason but won’t look into the fact that bicycles somehow cost just as much as a f ing car. A 30 pound bicycle shouldn’t not compete with a 5000+ pound car. It makes no sense especially since the materials have to be the same except in a few but nonetheless makes no sense. I get why high end once can be pricey (not to this degree) but why do usable once for the general public also have to be. There’s simply no excuses

[@SwaxMain4u]

​@@SamuelLewin24 lmao no you dont have to buy an 8000 dollar motorcycle.

[@SirNarax]

@@SwaxMain4u No you can get a 6,000 dollar bike instead? A true 'entry' level motorcycle is not going to cost that much less. You can also go the other way too and compare a motorcycle to a car. You can buy a 20,000 dollar motorcycle. You can buy a 20,000 dollar car. Which is more machine? No matter what kind of bias we have for the motorcycle it'd only be foolish to argue the motorcycle is 'more'. So why are they the same price?

[@ZenoLee0]

Very few people are buying $8k MTB. As a serious hobbyist, you can get by with something around $2k for a decent hardtail, and $3k for a full sus. I am speaking about trail, rather than esoteric disciplines in MTB because as soon as you start specializing in enduro, XC, DH, you are going in "professional" territory. This video compares an average street bike, so it should compare to an average MTB.

[@Clayne151]

And probably like 95% of the "mountain bike market" will be bikes in the 200-999$ range, of which 95% will never see a mountain to begin with.

[@jennyjohn704]

They're comparing two bikes that cost the same. Why does this confuse you?

[@jpbaron6661]

Considering where the video was filmed it is the average price for a mtb.

[@monokheros5373]

so YOUR average MTB is the equivalent of a Honda XR150L noted the XR150L will also never see the race track again.... id have to go back over 15 years to see if it EVER saw the race track

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

Jenny, they're comparing the best mountain bike to an average motorcycle. It'd be like comparing the Queen's carriage to a Polo and asking why wagons cost more than cars.

[@paulmakinson1965]

As a lifelong cyclist and motorcyclist, I just think bicycles are ridiculously overpriced. I am 58, a bicycle for a pro on the "Tour de France" is just as useful to me as a Ninja H2R is. On my bicycle, I just aspire to do some cardio workout, have a smooth ride, enjoy the scenery and keep up with my friends in the same age bracket. I believe that the gain in performance gets less and less as you increase the price. My bicycle is a second hand aluminum Wilier Triestina, good enough for me. A few seconds might make all the difference between winning and losing to a pro, none whatsoever to me. And the real stiff carbon frame will exhaust me hurt my old joints.

[@JCintheBCC]

I guarantee you, a carbon frame bike will shake your old joints less than that second hand aluminum Wilier. Carbon layups allow for anisotropic flex and compliance (part of that high price tag people complain about). My 11 year old Specialized Roubaix carbon road bike is far more comfortable than my old aluminum gravel bike, yet when I stomp my foot on the pedal, it transfers power far better and takes off. Carbon makes a huge difference in my enjoyment and comfort on a road bike, even as a weekend-warrior dad.

[@brentlanyon4654]

Bikes are indeed overpriced, but there is a point at which one can pay too little. Ironically (or not?) the term dentist came up a number of times in this video. If you try actually riding a $300 mountain bike on an off road trail, which was put together by some clueless Wal*Mart employee, there's a good chance your spending into the thousands of dollars on dental work and or casts when the cheap bike breaks underneath you while riding. You can get a trail worthy hard tail for less than a grand, seems like the sweet spot for mountain bikes in my opinion.

[@MrM1729]

65 year old rider- love my carbon giant

[@keeganwebber]

my steel bikes whip and wiggle and bother my joints not at all, while my aluminum ones are hard as rocks when you mash on them and vibrate quite a bit more to boot. that said, the tire is an order of magnitude more floppy than the frame so lower the pressure a bit, get a bit larger tire, and you'll be 90% of the way there for far less cost

[@MikeNolan_Councilman]

Just spend the time to get a capable used frame and build it up to a spec that can handle your riding. I built up a hard tail for jumps and local single track for about 700 total. 9speed clutched derailleur, 11-46tooth cassette, 120mm rockshox fork, old used tektro comp hydro brakes. It's a little rowdy on fast techy trails but keeps the chain on and it's quiet. (If you have bad joints and still wanna ride get a full squish😅)

[@Nolofinwe86]

Ryan it's time to make a video on Chinese motorcycles.

[@benfennell6842]

yes!

[@cowdrey11]

I third that

[@FortNine]

You mean the new Harley-Davidson? ZING! ~RF9

[@rcmaniac10]

on the good? (cfmoto 450ss) or the bad? (venom x22r max)

[@axialivanov6101]

​@@FortNinedefinitely cover the cfmoto 450ss

[@Skibidi_b0b_]

No need to debate, just need to calculate cost of production

[@interestsavvy6813]

No, this will come close. It's the demand and supply.

[@cooltwittertag]

Depends mostly on where the bike was made lets be honest

[@lony5823]

@@interestsavvy6813 Rare austrian school comment.

[@matth8924]

Seeing Yoann Barelli collaborate with FortNine is the crossover I didn't know I needed.

[@ironymatt]

Crossover? Is that how he fit in the box?

[@fdmmoens]

I was surprised as well! Such a cool guy

[@treyquattro]

was that the real guy?!

[@mcradical6283]

So the conclusion is really that each of these two-wheelers is being developed with different approaches. The bicycle is a combo of lower volume, customisation and charging what their customers will pay. The motorcycle is higher volume, no customisation and actually trying to get as low a price point as possible. It's just a coincidence that they both end up at the same price point, and so people (me included) can't believe they have the same value

[@bradcomis1066]

There are, of course, much much cheaper bicycles out there that use similar production and design ethos to the motorcycle. Those bicycles are much less expensive than $8000. Being able to get motor bikes in different sizes would be amazing though

[@marcalvarez4890]

Pro level bike....vs entry level Moto. Completely different levels. Its like F22 fighter....vs 30 year old Cessna

[@Ben-mw9vz]

@@marcalvarez4890A better analogy would be a High-end speedboat vs an entry level Yacht. Similar price, same principles, different uses

[@mcradical6283]

@@bradcomis1066 yeah it'd be amazing to somehow have sizing on motorbikes, I've got long legs and I look kinda ridiculous on the smaller Japanese and Italian bikes, which I guess we're mainly designed for small Japanese and Italian men. I suspect one of the reasons for no sizing is the sheer engineering that's gone into the design of motorbikes, considering they work so well at different speeds and loads. Changing the position of handlebars, seat, footpegs etc probably changes how it works, hence it's not offered (unless you're Tom Cruise and you can get a custom sportsbike). Still, it'd be awesome!

[@MtJochem]

@@mcradical6283 Another reason is that is simply isn't that relevant when you don't have to paddle. Sure it matters, but not that much.

[@ivonakis]

Just cyclist here: With bikes The more you pay the less bike you get- literally. It is lighter and more nimble. However there is a sweet spot much much lower price range. If you go past it however you start getting frequent technical issues because components are build to price and not to last. So ride what you can afford and I hope you can afford at least the sweet spot :)

[@SingleTrackMined]

Light, cheap, durable -- pick 2

[@weevilinabox]

​@@SingleTrackMinedCheap and durable...but mostly durable. I don't expect to replace my bike in a year or two. Or five. Ten? Maybe 🤔

[@smartguy9765]

What is the minimum sweet spot?

[@LaggerSVK]

@@smartguy9765 it depends of what type of bike you want. But I would expect that most of the population would have a long lasting good quality experience with something like 20-30% of this top tier. So not using the cheapest components or even some fakes but some sub mid grade of known brands.

[@ArtoriusBravo]

Snobbism IMHO. I've rode till last year the same 2004 Merida Matts 90 and it took me to the exact same places it took me when I was a teenager. It never bent, never broke and I destroyed two helmets falling from it. Just now it reached the point where I need to replace everything but the frame. It was perfectly adequate for almost 20 years. The only disadvantage is that the world of circling is filled with classist people that think less of you if you don't have the newest bike.

[@BenFlipsCars]

The only reason both road and Mountain bicycles have become so expensive is because... ppl keep buying them despite the price. lol

[@JonKelso-xk7ct]

This is fact

[@dinosoarskill17]

I bought my CBR 600RR when prices were pretty cheap... but, my motorcycle was cheaper than my MTB. And, as someone who does both, I find the price of MTB's insane and not worth it.

[@5280MTM]

Ive been a MTB/DH/trials guy my whole life and over the years watching pedal bikes raise in cost to insane levels. Last year I was looking at a new Trek Slash and Remedy for my new resort and DH rig. When the shop told me the price along with at least a year wait time, I went over to the motorcycle dealership and left with a new dual sport. The motorcycle was far less than the Trek and with the money I saved I used that to buy all new moto gear. After 20+ years in cycling they priced me out so I went moto. I will never buy a new bicycle ever again, plus a used bicycle has no resale value whatsoever. And I found a cherry Beta 250 trials moto for under 1k and runs perfectly- and that was still less than a used MTB. Its comical.

[@yordankrushkov8488]

Totally agree with your final decision. Would have done the same if I didn't live in France where dual sport practice is kinda considered illegal now in many places and so far e-mtb are the current solution but that will probably evolve soon ans not in the interest of my favorite weekend occupation 😢. And if I wasn't 100+ kg (220pounds) I would probably jump to a sur Ron dealership to get a 60kg electric bike/mtb thingy that is also illegal to ride in most Forrests here

[@jamesschneider3828]

@@yordankrushkov8488 220 lbs, how much wine and cheese door you consume?

[@MotoDash1100]

​@@jamesschneider3828Mate, tall people are easily 200lbs. I often forget when asking someone what they weight that very fact, so when someone saying 130lbs or 150lbs I'm always looking at them crazy for not having a hiigher weight. Pre-surgery: I was 240lbs at 6'5" and with that weight mostly being muscles in my thighs and legs, and some muscle in my back and shoulders. Post-surgery (metal rod in my right lower leg): I weighed in last at 270lb. Sure, some of that is bedrest fat, but I didn't grow super fat over 1 month of good healthy nutrionist-monitored food from the hospital. I had a whole lot of extra weight now on just my lower right leg. If/when I get my right leg amputated I'll really be surprised by the weight probably. Anyways, I only said the post-surgery as I said "pre-surgery" so just wanted it to be clear. But the point is most people that are 5'11 and 6'0 are typically 190-210lbs. Keep height in mind.

[@skoparweaver7692]

You could also argue that there's still good bikes in the lower levels of cost. While you could get a near race bike tier cost, you could also spend a lot less and still get something that will get you out on the trail. Very few people need a dakar bike just as very few people need the same bike a pro rider is using. That said, used bikes are an excellent value and even more so than used motorcycles (which I recommend to nearly anyone who will listen). All of my bicycles and motorcycles have been used.

[@seabiscuit726142]

Of course you could've bought an used MTB. High end bicycles depreciate more than cheaper ones.

[@JayGee6996]

No one will never convince me that mtb’s are not a rip off and I own 5, and 3 motorbikes.

[@EatonSomeMore]

they're a rip-off when you go to sell one five years later and they've lost 50-75% of their value. that rarely happens with a motorbike

[@KriegerKrieg]

@@EatonSomeMore yep, imagin its like trying to sell a pair of used shoes.

[@Qlicky]

@@EatonSomeMoreWhich is why I will never understand people buying new things like bicycles that depreciate hard and fast. My last mtb I got for $550 (Trek Marlin 8 2022) while it retails for $1200. Basically brand new, less than 300-400 miles driven on it. For a $550 bike it's absolutely amazing. Same thing with the bike in the video, give it a year or two and you can get used it for $3000 in mint condition. Even less if you're patient enough.

[@Broodjemetbeleg]

Look at gravel and road bikes, 2k for an entry level one and most of them come with Tiagra groups ets 😂

[@bennorolls]

@@EatonSomeMore… and that’s why I love used bikes

[@MattVenezuela]

Back in 1988 I bought a Diamond Back Arrival black and yellow splatter paint for about $1,100 CAD, I still have the bike, and it still turns heads when people look at it, I've never left it out in the rain and when I did take some years off biking it was hug either in my garage or my basement depending where I lived at the time. Now I use it to make runs to the store here in Venezuela... the quality of the build still holding up great...

[@mattd5681]

I was born in '81 I miss my Dyno/GTs. DB's were the shit back then fo sho.

[@tonyrichengod9280]

How’s Venezuela these days? I lived there for a bit in the 90’s

[@Lizlodude]

While all the points made here are valid, I think the most important point is where those two bikes fall in their relative performance ranges. The KTM is pretty close to entry-level pricing and performance for a street bike, and while the Norco is not at the top, it's definitely within Sight range of it. I personally have a ~$5k motorcycle and a ~$5-700 bike, which feels like a much more reasonable comparison. Both are a step above entry level with a couple of points of upgrades on them, and they're both solidly fine for me.

[@mrflippant]

Yeah, pretty much a false equivalence. A bicycle that costs $7,359CAD is more on par with a motorcycle that costs $20,000CAD. Except that bicycles suck and motorcycles are better in every way.

[@dagomez99]

@@mrflippantthey do not compare, at all. I have a 2900 dollar mtb and a 3100 dollar motorcycle and I love both of them.

[@gregorysteffensen3279]

My used Versys 650 was $5k but I have to remind myself it was closer to $10k new -- meanwhile my new build bicycle from a custom shop, built to my spec, was $2200 (albeit for a simple single-speed bike without suspension or much else of what makes MTBs expensive!). They're very different worlds, but my Kawasaki is almost certainly rocking worse quality steel and the fit and finish is similarly disproportionate

[@jsquared1013]

just letting you know that i Saw your pun 😆

[@noelvalenzarro]

@@mrflippantThis comment is exactly why as much as I love motorcycles I’ll never get into the culture around them.

[@MrGourd]

Great video! The surprise Yoann Barelli appearance was icing on the cake. Since F9 sells MTB gear I hope you guys do more MTB related content.

[@ws8080]

The best reason for any price is that it is what people are willing to pay, and frequently do so for brand names instead of actual value. Ryan nailed it when he said they charge what customers are willing to pay and the answer of scale to that has little to do with it.

[@taylorhickman84]

how many bike manufacturers are there, vs moto manufacturers, it's short sided to say scale isn't a factor, unless I misunderstand what he means by scale.

[@mclarenf1lm374]

Scale is a massive factor though On a motorcycle, if you're shorter you just sit in a different place On a bicycle, you only have one saddle worth of space, so your only choice is frame size Then there's suspension types because all motorcycles are full suspension And most mtbs including full suspension vary wildly in terms of frame and suspension geometry All motorcycles ride on road, with the exception of small dirt bikes which this isn't one of A mtb can go on wildly different courses with different jumps, declines, and obstacles Yamaha offer less motorcycle models than canyon offers mtb variations, ignoring sizes which motorcycles don't have to deal with

[@holdencaulfied7492]

Bikes are a rip off. When you walk into a fancy bike shop, you need to realize that the margin of a new bike is paying for all that overhead. So while it's true that bike shops will charge what people are willing to pay, the price can't drop too much because of the costs of running the bike shop. If people weren't willing to pay the minimum to cover all that overhead, the manufacturer and bike shop would stop selling bikes rather than the bikes selling for "what the customers are will to pay". So that's a bit of nonsense. That's why there are direct to consumer brands that in some cases sell for half the price of the big name bike brands.

[@SRMal8723]

Exactly this. I've been looking through bikes basically, whole 2 last days (because i wanna start the hobby), and from what i have found out, a huge margin of bike prices is air. And the improvement to price scales, are extremely highly stacked towards the price. Basically at 1.5k you have a really good bike. Then when you pay double of that, you have basically still the same really good bike, with few minor improvements. A few, way more experienced bikers i ended up speaking to showed me how you can find a "no name" brand, that uses frames manufactured in same places, from same material, same components added to bikes, yet way more reasonably priced, than well known, expensive brands.

[@mclarenf1lm374]

@@SRMal8723 look at brands like Canyon, cube, giant and so on and you'd find 600$ hardtails with a mid tier groupset 2000$ is your full sus deore/road bike 105 it's big brands like those that usually get the best price on cheap stuff also keep in mind the groupset, it's the engine equivalent part for bikes

[@auggie9438]

What I love about pedal bikes is their accessibility. You don’t need to by a thousand dollar bike, anyone can learn how to work on a bike and parts are readily accessible, meaning you can get what you can afford and build out the kind of bike that best suits your needs

[@g7mikki337]

8:45 "It's in neutral" hahaha😄

[@amorphous_bones]

I’d love to see an itemized cost breakdown for the mountain bike; still seems like a ripoff even with greater performance and choice (ex: work boots come in ~18 sizes, 3 safety options, and 2 colors and rarely crack a grand even for the good stuff). Most outdoor products suffer from a pretty hefty yuppie markup, as well as very limited production runs and rapid new product development (lots of choices and output but effectively no economy of scale, whose cost the yuppie market will also bear)

[@DrMillF]

If you buy the parts separate from the bike you'll pay waaaaay more..

[@taylorhickman84]

I think the problem is too many boutique bike makers out there. There's no shortage of MTBs, but if they are being made from 100 different companies, you'll never see the benefits an economy of scale can bring to the consumer.

[@FlexibleToast]

​@taylorhickman84 you think the problem with the price is too much competition?

[@taylorhickman84]

@@FlexibleToast I wouldn't classify it as "competition", also I should have worded that differently as I feel it's part of the problem, but not the main issue. But if you compare the moto industry to MTB industry, look at how many more MTB manufacturers there are in comparison. If there were less manufacturers, they would be cranking out higher volume which can bring prices down. Their R&D certainly can't cost more than a motorcycle, so the only reason for their prices to be justifiable is that they don't produce in large volume. I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but as many have pointed out price gouging may be a key component. But until we see some internal documents that show profit margins, I can only speculate.

[@mclarenf1lm374]

Comment's old but so was my knowledge on this when this came out Issue with driving down costs with bikes is that there are too many reasonable variations of things you could only change at the start Carbon/Aluminum frame Frame Geometry Suspension Geometry Suspension Size Front/Full suspension Gearing Ease/Top Speed Tire size front and rear Groupset You're left with what would it be... 50 different options all things considered? Then again, you could always find the bike you want with a cheaper but very much sufficient groupset at 2k or a hardtail for 600$

[@ps1hagrid823]

I think a better comparison would be with motocross or enduro bikes which are also updated every one or two years and are just a couple of grand away from full competition bikes.

[@justinsmith7808]

Was looking for this comment as pro level MTB is nearly the same as pro level ktm dirt bike in price

[@Carlisho]

I disagree, its not even close. My 2024 KX250 has a MSRP of around 8k, pro level competition 250s are easily over 80k.

[@OusqaOuswaf]

@@Carlisho but enduro motorcycles are a lot closer to pro competition equipment right?

[@spicketspaghet7773]

@@CarlishoPrice vs performance. Truth is you can race just fine, and a pro can ride just fine, on any stock mx bike for that matter. The stock vs factory rides are closer in performance than a ktm390 and their motogp bikes. Especially in motocross, where privateers are running A-kit suspension bikes totaling around 24K

[@jacobvanhalteren7452]

yeah this isn't true at all. Yes you can ride a stock KTM in the pro class and guys have done it but consider this. Buying a top tier set of suspension for your bike is already 15k US, then you're looking at around 4k in motor work, and then the tuning. Let alone the cost of development for those top tier parts that they use.

[@zerocool5395]

7k for a bike is insane to me. I've owned over 15 cars in my life and none of them were over 8k lmao.

[@EPiQ_cR]

Interesting. I do think the "market" is the biggest issue with the inflated prices though. Even with breaktrough tech, you used to be able to get a race-ready downhill bike for 4-5K. Similar bikes in modern tech that is still primarily tension-driven cables is somehow pushing 12K.

[@DuBstep115]

The demand and covid exploded the E-bike market Prices whent from 3k to 4-5k and you get NOTHING for that extra 1k.

[@vincentwieser]

Most modern-day moutain bikes are using electronic shifting and hydraulic breaks many of them 4 piston calipers they are also completely carbon fiber including the rims and use suspension technology that you would only see on the highest emd motorcycles and sometimes not even there. $13k bicycles are not using cables there are no cables on them.

[@EPiQ_cR]

@@vincentwieserThat definitely is partially true, but not entirely. There are PLENTY of modern bikes that are nearly equivalent to tech you'd see in 2010-2014 (the last I shopped), but at 2x-3x the price. Suspension tech, geometry, and carbon quality may have improved, but I simply don't see any concrete items that actually justify THAT substantial of a markup outside of the growing popularity.

[@gravegaming2023]

**ck, 10 years ago I was doing races on a 500$ bike , of course I tacod my front rim pretty easily

[@joeyramstad8529]

And you can get a trail bike that would probably smoke a lot of 20 year old pro downhill bikes for $2000. And a pro on a $300 Walmart bike could probably kick a noobs ass riding a $8000 bike. the pro models are just that, Pro models. They're for advanced to pro level riders, riding to compare themselves to other advanced/pro riders. And of course things start to get wider profit margins and crazier prices when they get to pro level, just like they mentioned with the pro racing motorcycles.

[@Tonygue3978]

As a road cyclist, mountain biker, dirt biker, sport bike user, and cruiser user, this video was hilarious and shows how both complexity and simplicity fit each hobby.

[@paulmares9815]

"Hobby"?

[@DuBstep115]

@@paulmares9815 Cycling is a hobby, motorcycle can be a hobby, means of transportation and work equipment

[@m0nss7erKill]

As mountain biker, I see road bikes as scam

[@DuBstep115]

@@m0nss7erKill Triathlon bikes are the biggest scam of them all

[@tubecated_development]

@@DuBstep115Cycling also a means of transport/commuting, carrying cargo etc

[@jamesjenkins8373]

I myself am an avid Mountain Biker, and work in a bike shop. The modern bike industry is a weird one to say the least, some examples the bike brand we sell almost all of the bikes the whole sale cost is almost half of the retail cost, parts from the big manufacturers are also around the 30% to 50% markup as I have been observing. Just my bike alone when I bought it in January it retailed for $5,000 and I got it with employee discount for $2,234.91 with a $10 donation to a bike charity the company runs. Another one I upgraded my front fork to the factory/ultimate version, a $1,100 ish fork retail for $584 from one of our distributors

[@nikolaossakellis4058]

Can I buy a bike through you dude? I'll pay you 500 bucks just to get that discount

[@andrewgraham8561]

So 50% of the money you pay simply goes to those moving the product from the factory to your hands. What a scam.

[@Mankylovlov]

specialized

[@kinmaul160]

@@andrewgraham8561 A local bike shop is typically a small, locally owned business. They have to pay their employees, the rent/mortgage on the building, and local/state/federal taxes all while trying to make a profit themselves. Depending on geographical location, their business may slow to a crawl during winter months. Also, they are not just "moving the product from the factory to your hands". The bikes come partially assembled, so they have to finish the build and double check the factory installed parts to make sure everything is safe for the rider. A single minimum wage ($7.25/hr per federal law, but some states are higher) employee earns $15,000/yr. You are not going to be able to find qualified people for that wage so you are going to have to pay more. In addition to just salary, the employer has to contribute to things like unemployment tax, social security, and Medicare for each employee (my example is specific to the US but there are similar costs in other parts of the world). A rough estimate is that an employee is going to cost you 1.25 to 1.4 times their salary. That means that $7.25/hr employee actually costs the owner between $18,750 and $21,000 each year (again you won't find anyone to work in your bike shop for that). There is markup on literally every single product you by because no one is in business to lose money. I think people look at markup in a vacuum and immediately think they are getting "ripped off" because they don't think about the costs of running a business. No business can survive by selling a product at cost. Just having 3-4 employees a decent wage means your shop needs to clear over $100,000 in profit to just pay them. There are companies that sell bikes direct to consumer, and as you can expect, they offer significant savings if you are capable of assembling it yourself.

[@Bertie..]

Why I buy all my bike stuff from AliExpress now.

[@720Two]

I’m an engineer by trade. Personally, the R&D on the various models presented seems minimal. Material cost , excluding the carbon , is relatively cheap. Production is minimal, assembly is simple and quick. Overall seems overpriced paying 8K for a bicycle. I see a lot of of comments stating “quality materials and / or products” to manufacture the bicycles. Am I missing something here? But a good gearbox is way more expensive and difficult to produce that a few offset sprockets. But I guess this is every sport. Once you in , it becomes about what you own. Buy the name play the game

[@yamaha-rb9tk]

It happened during all the covid bullshit. Outdoor activities away from other became popular. MTB riding became popular, specially among people with money. This drove up prices and a lot of people buy bikes now for status.

[@Sareth94]

that, and diminishing returns - if this bike is 80% of full pro - i.e. 80% of a 2 million MotoGP bike - there's a lot of ungildened MTBs way cheaper that maybe reach 70 - 60 or 50% for a fraction of the price. Also it's *purely* a hobby machine - no one rides MTB / trail bikes to work - it's a luxury entertainment item, not a transport device.

[@Milkmans_Son]

Apparently you didn't notice, but costs for everything went through the roof during that time.

[@dannygarland3637]

prices havent changed that much tbh apart from the fact you may need to source a bike from another country that has stock and import it which has some shipping fees most shops wont just absorb. most supply chain issues fixed now. many of the 2024 model specialized bikes are 1-2K cheaper than the previous gen models

[@cyjan3k823]

Prices of motorcycles also went up significatly during and after covid, it was always prices quite close

[@eighty6gt]

Bike prices and price for quality are dropping fast today.

[@mm6705]

I think the point about buying a high level mountain bike because it needs to be durable and reliable....is kind of a weak point. They make incredibly solid mountain bikes for 1000 dollars (especially on the used market) and a non professional rider will ride just as poorly on it as an 8000 bike. I could understand if they were talking about protective equipment like shin guards or helmets or something...you know ACTUAL insurance to protect one's body.

[@dannygarland3637]

durability and weight mainly. also just general better function

[@HannyDart]

from my experience id say: no they dont! especially not compared to what mileage a motorcycle has to endure. ask me how i know... cracked two carbon frames in the last year by normal/intended usage. Mountainbikes are neither durable nor reliable compared to motorcycles for their intended usecase

[@dannygarland3637]

obviously not compared to motorcycles theyre less durable im saying carbon bike frames are stronger than alloy bike frames. motorcycle frames can be 10x as heavy and dont have to worry about most of the characteristics that go into a MTB frame@@HannyDart

[@ADAMJWAITE]

@@dannygarland3637 You're dealing with the law of diminishing returns. The value of a $1,000 new bike compared to a $7,000 bike that's 10% better because it has titanium nuts and bolts is of no comparison. And there are a lot of disadvantages to carbon. Although lighter and stronger then aluminum, once you exceed it's breaking strength, failure is more catastrophic with carbon so the financial risk is much greater.

[@mm6705]

@@HannyDart i'm surprised companies still even use carbon fiber, and haven't gotten sued. It's one of the worst possible material choices for a mountain bike frame...and its obviously not advertised that their frames WILL develop microfractures at every single hit from rocks, drops, falls against hard objects... Dont buy a carbon fiber frame, again.

[@creedm3040]

Great video! I think MTB’s are grossly overpriced. One consideration not pointed out is the severe depreciation suffered by MTB’s. My Santa Cruz Blur dropped 50% in one year. Why? The new model had flavor of the year suspension upgrades. I still have it and it still works fine. The difference is you can get a pre owned MTB for a fraction of the MSRP . It’s the engine on top that makes the difference. By far motorcycles deliver the most value. Best!

[@kevinm.n.5158]

To be fair, if its carbon, there is a huge stigma as it were considering they're prone to cracking and certainly delamination. That primarily bombs their used value. Al frames.... uhh... idk

[@garyking508]

A great argument to only buy on the used market. New bicycles have scary depreciation.

[@14erGuy]

Great point about buying used. I started buying used some years ago and realized upon selling them when I bought my next bikes that I was breaking even each time rather than losing money. My current bike would have had a retail price over $9000 when it was new. I bought it for $4000 four years ago and it could probably still sell for close to that and rivals any new bike in terms of capabilities and features. I doubt I'll ever buy a new bike at the shop again.

[@garyking508]

@@14erGuy Well mine was cheap because it needed repairs, which were dead easy to fix (thank you for non-mechanically minded sellers!). As a result, I could resell at a profit.

[@dirkmohrmann8960]

Depreciation is a great way to determine how much something is actually, functionally worth, versus how much you are paying for fashion or novelty. Works for many different things, not just vehicles.

[@Maxsmotoshop]

Just because you’re willing to overpay does not make it valuable😂 I think the mountain bike guy insulted all the mountain bikers

[@robertcurtis3807]

I am a motorcycle rider, and an acoustic mtb rider. It really ticks me off on the prices of good mtb, and downhill e-bikes. You can even buy new motorcycles cheaper than a lot of preowned Ebikes.

[@cben86]

Blame manufacturers for creating tiers of suspension and drivetrain components so brands can charge more for higher spec builds. Entry level crap components create an artificial floor and MTB fans are ok with it. There is no way it is more cost effective from an R&D and manufacturing standpoint to build 3 different versions of a shock and 4 different drivetrains.

[@YouTenaza]

Acoustic mtb 😂😂😂😂💯

[@johnlesoudeur3653]

An acoustic mtb rider...are you having hearing difficulties?

[@ridgeridermoto]

@@johnlesoudeur3653 It just sounds wrong

[@ShaneCranor]

build one.

[@jaygames1598]

Awesome seeing Yoann Barelli in a F9 video. Not sure i love the comparison of an enthusiast bike vs an entry level motorcycle though. In both sports, you can pay a lot for marginal gains. My mtb cost $3300.

[@JacesOwnWorld]

I can’t believe the number of people willing to spend over $6k for a non-EV mountain bike. That’s just wild to me. And yet, $6k seems to be close to the average price of a very good equipped bike. Blows my mind knowing mountain bikes can easily reach $10k, and even at that price, they sell! Why are so many of you willing to spend that kind of money in a mountain bike? Especially when you don’t race for money!!! How many times do we these $5-6k bikes go on sale, for like 40% off? Pretty frequently. That tells me how crazy the profit margin these bikes have! We need to stop buying them at full retail people! If they can still make money by discounting them more than 30%, then we shouldn’t be even considering buying them at MSRP! Save your money and buy only when it’s on sale!

[@bryan1956]

because there are people in higher tax brackets who can afford them. Also, they all have a common kink; they want something that most people cannot afford. So yeah, ego is in the equation because as you know, it makes no goddamn sense.

[@charrineau]

To clarify a point in your analysis of the manufacturer costs associated with delivering a custom bike order vs a motorcycle, the vast majority of local bicycle mechanics do not get paid living wage.

[@rowadorider]

as a mountain biker, (having owned multiple mountain bikes with just about the same price range bikes you showed), i agree that its very overpriced for what it is. But you do have the option to go spend 1/4 less and have the same fun, experience and exercise as the high end ones. It's just more satisfying to have access to pro level frames and components and a sense of pride of ownership of your bike when see the pro athletes compete in world cup and you have the same exact stuff at home. I think these prices are more geared towards professionals and sponsored athletes but at the same they make it available to the public to purchase.

[@campbell9825]

Not only that, but I would also argue that owning a lower end bike will allow you to become a better rider in the long run. Without pro level suspension and drivetrain, you have to work harder and learn how to use your body to compensate in the areas where the bike lacks. Also, you will have to repair and upgrade parts more often which helps a beginner to learn the mechanics of the bike and gain experience in problem solving.

[@austinlevi3452]

Imagine spending thousands of dollars extra just to have the same stuff you see on tv. You’re such a squid 🦑

[@aldrinmilespartosa1578]

The apple of the transport world. Buy less, pay more.

[@andyzacek9760]

Bicycle prices have inflated massively in the last 4-5 years. The quality of mountain bike parts has actually gone up a fair bit too, with 4-piston brakes, electronic shifting, etc... all technologies that were nascent WELL BEFORE the inflation skyrocketed, but for consumers were a convenient justification to spend 40% more than they did on their last bike for these next gen upgrades. But I hold that besides incremental geometry changes in the frame (and honestly, it doesn't cost much to R&D frame geos), a late 2018 pre-inflation bike is pretty much identically capable to a 2024 bike, even though the latter will retail for close to TWICE as much. BTW, where did bike companies put all that extra profit (other than in their own pockets)? Into paying off their R&D into e-bikes, and doubling down their investments in e-bike tech.

[@mrnorthz9373]

I doubt the quality has gone up, but rater the marketing that the new crap they are selling is way better than the older one has

[@andyzacek9760]

But some of the technology is definitely getting better, i.e more reliable, efficient, robust. Specifically brakes, droppers, and 1x drivetrains. I'm a total luddite when it comes to this stuff, but I have to service these high-tech mountain bikes (I am a bike mechanic), and even I must admit some of the new stuff is much better, even if the marketing is pretty hyperbolic.

[@mrnorthz9373]

@@andyzacek9760 its not really "technology" i doubt. Removing a front chainring and derraileur, putting bluetooth on a bike shifter or just making the modulation better has so little engineering for it to be done. Assuming the brake pads are the same, shimano can easily make their cheapest hydraulic brakes have the same modulation and power as their downhill brakes for like 1 dollar added cost.

[@andyzacek9760]

I'm curious why you believe these things. I don't think what you're saying is true at all. Mechanical engineering and manufacturing are not trivial, and there is real R&D that goes into this stuff. It's funny you say that about Shimano brakes, sounds like you don't realize they ARE all the same design already. The differences in power and modulation come from the higher quality of the materials and manufacturing, i.e. spending more than like $1 extra. For example, M4100 series are exactly the same mechanical design as M9100 brakes, but the 9100s feel much better. They achieve tighter tolerances in the cylinders by using more machining (more money) and use much harder piston material (more money, lots more R&D to develop the thermally tuned ceramic pistons). There is simply no way to make these higher end parts as cheaply as they can make low end parts, which the exception of a novel design which can perform well with cheaper manufacturing. Novel design and engineering costs money. Bottom-of-the-barrel mt200 brakes which literally cost $30 perform as good or better than high end brakes with worse designs that we had in the early 2000s, so the overall design is definitely improving as more engineering hours go into designing brakes. sorry for the novel @mrnorthz9373

[@mrnorthz9373]

@@andyzacek9760 yeah thanks for schooling me, the reason i thought this way was because i thought it just had to do with mechanical advantage. Ofcourse i know the tolerances will be higher and the weight will be lighter, but it really didnt make sense to me why this would increase braking power. If you had a pulley system with the ratio of 2:1 i didnt think you could really make noticable difference by using high end polymer rope and 3d printed titanium pulleys. Anyways, of course there is engineering and R&D, but bikes dont have anything new. Its just existing design. Hydraulic brakes long existed before bikes had them, ceramic pads long existed before bikes had them, and so on. Also, are the deore brakes you mentioned same design as the xtr brakes? Is t the piston on the xtr bigger and the shifter piston smaller?

[@jeffer1101]

I had a Norco Shogun BMX bike as a young teen (bought with my own money). I really liked it, for the week I had it. I was selling raffle tickets for a charity fundraiser and when I left it alone for 5 minutes in a townhouse complex, someone stole it and I never saw it again. I replaced with a Supercycle bike that was about $100 and had that thing for a decade. Never locked up, just sitting in the back yard, ended up donating it to Goodwill when it was just taking up space and wasn't getting used.

[@SirMo]

This reminded of that one time I saw a $14K S-Works mountain bike mounted on an old beat up $1000 Honda Civic.

[@LathanM]

As the owner of a 20-year-old, custom fitted and built Tommasini that would rival most bespoke suits in the amount it measurements and adjustments it took, it really was hard to understand how few factory options my motorcycle had. I guess manufacturers know the aftermarket will fill in the gaps. My Tommasini cost me $13K at the time, and the motorcycle I was riding was only $6k. My current motorcycle is only $9k. I justified the price on the Tommasini because I was an amateur racer at the time. Knowing that the bike was a 1 of 1 also helped with the price. I still race that bike today even though I have several others. There is that special magic in that machine.

[@nailbiter82]

I'm just guessing, but the fact your body is the 'engine' would require the need for extremely precise measurements?

[@LathanM]

@@nailbiter82, mostly for building the frame to the correct sizes. In my case they lengthened the top tube 4 inches over what a normal frame my size would be to take out the twichy nature of just extending the handlebar stem. The chainstays were lengthened and bent differently to allow for more heel clearance. Handlebars that are wider with a shallower droop. Lugged steel frame that is as light as carbon fiber. They even took into account that differences in my arm and leg lengths. like I said, it was like buying a tailored suit. You really got to spec each aspect of the bike. Even the lugs that hold the tubes together had options. The final bike I could ride all day comfortably. It was the same as buying a motorcycle and getting to spec every component down to the type of padding in the seat. It is overkill but so worth it if you ride a lot.

[@yumpbalump]

@@nailbiter82 Also, people of very different sizes typically buy entirely different motorcycle models in order to get a good fit.

[@flurgerbla7609]

As a mountain biker i found this video very enjoyable! Lots of these things are what id consider pretty big problems with the mtb and even bicycle industry as a whole.

[@ADAMJWAITE]

Yep. The bike industry has lost touch with the largest market, what the average consumer wants, and is instead pushing technologies, labeled as "improvements", that are bad choices for most people. Two examples are hydraulic disc brakes and 29" tires.

[@rstrakovsky]

@@ADAMJWAITE Lol, hydraulic disc brakes on mountain bikes are pretty damn useful, come on!

[@saturn5mtw567]

@@ADAMJWAITE WTF, did you actually just say that hydraulic disc brakes are not improvements?? JFC basically the worst example to pick, I absolutely would not give up hydraulic disc brakes

[@critzlez8593]

@@ADAMJWAITE bruh hydraulic brakes are one of the best improvements out of all of the tech that you could have picked.

[@ADAMJWAITE]

@@saturn5mtw567 What I said is they're the wrong choice for MOST people. There are a lot of downsides to hydraulic disc brakes and very little improvement over cable actuated brakes. Namely, cost and ease to maintain. Sure, if you're a hardcore racer or don't mind the cost of paying a shop or spending a significant amount on specialty tools and knowledge, then there are benefits. But that's not most people. It often ends up being cheaper to replace, then maintain hydraulic brakes. Whereas cable brakes are cheap, parts are readily available and they're easy to maintain.

[@RidersInBlack]

Paying over $7K for a mountain bike is like everyone paying a $100K for a new pickup truck. If you're dumb enough to spend it, they'll keep making it and keep charging it.

[@256shadesofgrey]

7k is definitely a premium product, but you'd be surprised how easy it is to get to 3-4k while just buying mid-range parts. Even if you build the bike yourself.

[@yamahafan5227]

Anyone paying over 2k for a pedal bike has too much money or not enough common sense.

[@cooltwittertag]

​@@yamahafan5227let people have hobbies damn, you better stop shopping yamaha and import some cheap chinese e motorbikes then lmao, wayyy more practical and cheaper too

[@PhilipBlank]

Great video! Working in manufacturing, it actually makes sense they are the about same price. Overhead cost and hidden cost are a huge part of the picture to actually making either of them. Then you have R&D, raw materials, and labor. India is paying $1.5-$2.5 an hour, so you can throw 5 people at a bike to build it for $10 an hour. The US tech’s are making between $18-30 for labor. Machining and carbon component production is ungodly expensive on the bikes, and the designs are like he said almost pro-level and very difficult to produce. KTM’s mostly tube-stock material welded together through robot tables, the and molded plastic which is about the cheapest material possible. The engine is probably the largest single BOM cost along with the brakes and rims. Like they said on the trim levels on these though, you’re picking a close to top bike and an entry level motorcycle. Walmart has cheap bikes starting at $150 bucks, just like KTM has the high end machines costing way more. In reality it’s not like the bike companies are walking away with buckets of cash, they are spending the money on the bikes when they build them and employees make a reasonable living. We just compare apples to oranges because they both have 2 wheels. If you’re looking into mountain bikes though, $1.5-2k is about the intro cost to getting a really great performing bike (maybe used) after that it’s marginal benefits and really honing in on perfection up to the big money bikes. Peace!

[@NunyaBusiness...]

I think the big reason they cost the same here in North America is because both are occupying the same budgetary space. Both are considered luxury/hobby items. Neither is considered the go to economical mode of transportation by any significant portion of the NA population. They are, for most intents and purposes, toys in the NA market. Unnecessary items are always priced up to the maximum that the hobbyists will pay. There are budget versions of both for those seeking the economical transportation versions (see cheaper bicycles and scooters/motorcycles). The higher performance items are going to scale up in price as the level of need for the item is being outweighed by the desire for features and luxury. So, you have $7K-$10K bicycles and $20K+ motorcycles for the dentists to play with, and then you have the "lesser" models of each for those with less luxury/hobby money in their budgets.

[@jorkusmalorkus]

be careful calling yourself the "significant portion of the north american population"

[@NunyaBusiness...]

@@jorkusmalorkus I'm a motorcyclist in North America. By the literal definition of what I said I don't consider myself a significant portion of the North American population.

[@taylorhickman84]

I think the problem is too many boutique bike makers out there. There's no shortage of MTBs, but if they are being made from 100 different companies, you'll never see the benefits an economy of scale can bring to the consumer.

[@geroutathat]

​@@taylorhickman84but the MTB parts are being made to scale, the brakes, gears, headset, bottom bracket are rarely custom. The frame is custom? That's it? Take triumph, they just brought out a race ready dirt bike, 10k, you can get smaller engine dirt bikes from bigger bike makers for 4-5k, but let's look at triumph, they are entering the dirt bike field, it's full of players, they have to r&d their own stuff, and they can pick from shelf for brakes, lights etc. in the end, the r&d in that race ready bike is way more, and they can sell it for the price of a mountain bike.if you're a custom mountain bike maker, what are you doing in r&d? There is one mountain biker and he makes his own bikes. Who out there builds their own dirtbikes?

[@-whackd]

Yes I don't buy any of this shit to get around affordably. I bought a used bike off Facebook and then added a Chinese electric motor and controller from ebay. Imagine buying a 9k bicycle that someone can just pick up and steal from you in seconds lol

It's cool to see how cheap mountain bikes are in first world countries, the same bike here in Brazil would cost at least twice as much as the KTM 390. I bought my 2022 Yamaha r3 for the price of a similar level MTB frame alone.

[@Vaylon.]

Look at it the other way around, they managed to make the motorcycle cheap in Brazil through scale and uniformity between models

@@Vaylon. Not really, the KTM in the video still costs 30 monthly minimum wages.

[@1gorSouz4]

I'm from Br too and can confirm, both cars and motorcycles are very expensive here, people just got used to the prices, but they're unreasonably high.

[@Vaylon.]

@ Yeah i should've said "cheaper" not "cheap", but you get my point. The motorcycle's price is lower in Brazil than in Canada, while the MTB's price is the same (which makes it more expensive for you by comparison).

[@bonnerfigueiroa]

@@Vaylon. The motorcycle price is not lower here, and by a looong shot. the same m3 here cost basically 2000 CAD more. both are more expensive, the only reason the mtb frame here is even more costly is because consumer tolerance

[@Dipshidiot636]

I'd like to thank the academy for allowing me to be this early

[@juliann267]

I was hoping for a breakdown of the industry. How can anybody defend the horrendous bike priced nowadays?

[@storegga]

Great video. Value wise in my opinion I'll never agree that a pedal bike is equivalent value. As a life long rider of both, I've been priced out of ever upgrading my MTB or road machine. So I actually sold my last two Specialized and Giant TCR bikes for 30% extra than I paid for them new and used the money to build high end machines with custom frames. If you know where to look you can build reliable great value bicycles, for a fraction of the cost of brands with identical components. Conversely I could never build my Ducati for cheaper costs than the Bologna brand. Also my Motorcycle has held its value where my Lapierre MTB halved in price/value. in a couple years. Therein lies the value of a motorcycle for me.

[@aluisious]

What Ducati do you have that held it's value?

[@storegga]

@@aluisious 848 Evo. Ironically just sold it for more than I paid in 2012. Factoring inflation etc, it's done not too bad. My own upkeep. The belt servicing is costly if you pay dealerships.

[@bajaadventurerider]

13 years ago I was super involved in Mountain biking specifically cross country, I competed and won multiple state and national championships even giving it a go for the Olympic Team, at the time I had to work on a bike shop and my salary would be exchanged for components to build my bike from scratch, ended up up building a trek elite 9.9 worth 7.5K for around 3.9K, now that I ride motorcycles Im getting the itch of biking a little bit just for fitness, but I can’t wrap my head around the pricing, thats why in giving bikesdirect a go because the pricing seems much more fair for what you are getting.

[@John_Ridley]

I've gotten a couple of bikes from BikesDirect. The road bike I got, I put about 15,000 miles on it bike commuting until I retired. For almost everyone, a BD bike is going to do just fine.

[@raylopez99]

Wow, you were almost Olympic caliber? That's impressive.

[@number4cat1]

I'm sorry you missed out on the Olympics and a Knighthood, but what did that brag have to do with pricing?

[@jmw8403]

@@number4cat1 How is that bragging?

[@----.__]

I got ripped off by bikesdirect. They took my money and didn't send anything. Avoid at all costs, literally.

[@alexisbongdevera3500]

Lets be honest, yes mtb has exotic parts which are for weight reductions but parts are overpriced really. Btw im a mtb biker and motorcycle rider as daily commute.

[@adam346]

to an extent you are not wrong but everything they said in the video is also true.. to customize your motorcycle you literally have to do it all after-market.. most $5k+ bikes from dealers, you customize as you want to so it's the final product...

[@alexisbongdevera3500]

@@adam346 Yep the customizable option of bike are really helpful for riding it really make your own bike technically. It just really depends on how deep your passion is and how deep your wallet is 😅 but great video btw hahahaha nothing against it just having honest thoughts about bike industry.

[@PaulSpades]

Well, it's really the drive components and suspension that costs an arm and a leg. No, I'm wrong, a "good" wheelset costs two arms, and carbon fiber frames haven't gotten cheaper either.

[@alexisbongdevera3500]

@@PaulSpades yeah try a kidney for wheelset 😅

[@cben86]

@@PaulSpades suspension and drivetrain components are such a racket. Brands create multiple tiers so they can set a price floor with the terrible cheap stuff and then have huge premiums on the higher spec stuff. From an R&D and manufacturing standpoint, it makes no sense to offer so many tiers of the same product.

[@matlane602]

Can't believe you got Johan to be in this. He's such a legend. Great vid. And I love both sports

[@Blackielude91]

I have the “why is your bicycle so expensive?” discussion several times a year. Now I have a slickly produced video with a great cameo to do the talking for me. Thanks for another banger, fortnine! Side note: I was wondering if Ryan ever got back to it after falling badly in that downhill race. Looks like he just got a nice new Sight!

[@defecationzen]

he finally realized he was in neutral the whole time back then.

[@J-Bibble]

There is a really good point being made at the end of the video about motorcycle ergonomics. It's crazy that every bike doesnt have at least some small level of seat and handlebar adjustabilty as a standard feature or as part of dealer setup.

[@Fogbrush]

Kawasaki have the 'ergo fit' system with different seats, bars and pegs - although the prices for the accessory parts are too high in US and Europe.

[@SoybeanAK]

There are a few things you can adjust with simple tools, RevZilla made a pair of videos on the subject. And then everything else is adding parts, from $39 risers to $390 seats. But you're right, it ought to be complementary if the dealer's gonna charge for setup anyway. Still funny how we have to go with a different number of cylinders to get a different frame size...

[@FruitPunchSamura1]

Do you really want to pay $30k for a KTM 390 with all those complexities introduced in the manufacturing process?

[@PovilasPanavas]

lately most bike has some handlebar adjustments, and most seats has two positions. So I think at least it's getting better.

[@cyjan3k823]

Yeah, its very good point when someone says it out Loud. I get bigger frame is bigger change than it might look like but literally no sizing is So strange. I want a small motorcycle and Best thing I can buy for my size is scooter because 125s/250s are usually very small. I dont want to buy 600 or bigger because I am sure it hard to stay in speed limit in city and I See people struggling with the weight of bigger bikes in traffic

[@lakim00]

Haven’t seen a vid from you in a while but damn they are refreshing. Funny, meticulously informative and feels more honest than 99% of anyone.

[@tonyvandyke7588]

I’ve owned three mountain bikes over 2k and one over 10k. The difference? A couple grams and design style. As a matter of fact, my ibis mojo carbon was the first and only bike I owned for less than a year before selling it and when I did, I bought a better bike for less and a motorcycle. I now own a Deviate Claymore which outclasses the ibis all day long and a KLR 650 which can carry my Claymore not only to the trails but through them as well.

[@OneManMutiny]

That’s a massive flex! Carrying a mountain bike on a KLR650!

[@juddphilby9015]

same reason a phone or coffee maker cost as much as a motorcycle....... people have more money than sense

[@vinerwe]

My neighbor here in NZ has a $19000 carbon fibre E-bike that he bought used for about $12000. The depreciation on these outpace motorcycle depreciation I would think. Probably due to the tech advances noted in the video. I could get a 2 year old KTM 890 right now for $19K with less than 10K kms. Like someone else said here, it's about status.

[@coreygolpheneee]

It's more of a thing where the boutique brands that become reputable in the community will hold their value, because they are made in low volume. A 90s Klein MTB or Yeti is still a 1000 dollar bicycle

[@SingleTrackMined]

Excellent! You guys are awesome. As both a MTBer and a motorcyclist I appreciate the look into the differences. Another top shelf video!

[@joshpollack5936]

From the perspective of someone from the Santa Cruz bike and Tesla side of California, I couldn’t agree more. They’re paying for an identity not a product. And like Harley they can charge whatever as long as the marketing team keeps working overtime

[@KhanyisoMapuma]

Nothing can justify the cost of those bicycles. HE even admitted it unknowingly by saying "They are worth what you're willing to pay" meaning that the intrinsic value is NOT worth the price

[@CleverAccountName303]

If they are so overpriced, in other words profit margins would be massive, then there should be plenty of competition in the market. In fact, You should probably start building bikes.

[@KhanyisoMapuma]

He literally says in the video that they are overpriced but beats around the bush. Also there’s a HUGE profit margin with bicycles.

[@CleverAccountName303]

@@KhanyisoMapuma if the profit margins are huge, that would invite a lot of companies into the market to make bikes, and the prices would go down. Economics 101.

[@Riley_Mundt]

@@CleverAccountName303 Not when initial startup costs are prohibitive for most people. The barrier to entry exceeds the eventual profits gained.

[@CleverAccountName303]

@@Riley_MundtIf the profits are so outrageous, then it would be super easy to get a business loan

[@JoeBManco]

As someone that has spent as much as $3000 on an e-bike with extra batteries and $8000 on a motorcycle, both are fun in their own right. However the motorcycle can get me to work in 35 minutes. The e-bike takes me 1.5 hours and is impractical for doing so. Now if there was a pedal assist motorcycle capable of 70mph, I would consider it. Edited to add: I about spit out my root beer when the cabinet was opened.

[@zurielsss]

You are not the only one wiping liquid off their screens

[@Chronosmaster002]

Lol, I was reading that comment exactly when the cabinet was opened 😂

[@coreygolpheneee]

As far as the customization goes, one thing i love about bicycles in general, is that there are so many small boutique people making every component far better than factory spec for most bicycles, companies like Phil Wood i9 etc dont really exist in the motorcycle space in quite the same way 😊

[@JoshuaTootell]

Yoshimura makes bicycle parts 😂

[@Slayerofmothers]

Hahahahaha what a load of drivel 😂 Do some constructive thinking and you'll soon realise how much motorcycles and push bikes have in common when it comes to your comment 😅

[@spikev5842]

Ut-Oh ... dis-information alert 🤣

[@АнастасАнастасов-е6т]

Weeell, on the point of aftermarket customization, you are both right and wrong for motorbikes. From the experience I had, it really depends on the comunity of the bike you have. For example, a bike like a Honda hornet has close to no community because it is a bike that is mainly used as a donor for a custom projetct, but if you pick a bifferent, more boutiqie brand like Buell, the community makes soooooo many custom parts that there are basically no two Buell bikes that are the same, even I am not sure what the stock bike looks like, people make almost every component for the XB9SX model as aftermarket customization and in many different materials, you can find the same piece, for example, the hull piece for the head lights can be found from normal plastic, 3D printed or carbon, and this is just one of the hundreds of parts that gets customized till your head spins. People make so many custom parts you can absolutely for sure build the whole bike out of custom aftermarket made parts, and I dont know of a bicycle community that makes so many of the components by themselves. But overall yes, customization is very different between bicycles and motorbikes, and this aspect depends on very different things in both groups.

[@dseych]

I don’t have a motorbike nor a bicycle, yet here I am enamored by Fortnine. Outstanding work, every video is masterful. Cheers

[@marmotwisdom]

Its not too late.

[@trapper1211]

Because people pay it, that's all there is to it. If people will pay more for my product, I will charge more and people are gonna be happy anyways.

[@Wilberon_McBane]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! Please more of this MTB/F9 crossover stuff. So many of us are duel riders for both and this just nails it in an interesting and funny as hell way. Absolutely loving this 👊😎

[@cisium1184]

I had no idea that bicycles were that expensive. I will now light myself on fire.

[@jarenci1]

I ride both 😅 I sold my 2014 CBR600RR and bought an E-MTB that cost me more than what I sold the motorcycle for 😬

[@BOMBON187]

Something that took a team of engineers, hundreds of machinists, and years to design can cost almost the same as something that welder can make in his garage.

[@AndrewYakovenko]

As someone who started riding motorcycles after spending my money intended for the wheels of my new TT bicycle on Yamaha WRF 250 instead, I can relate to that. Especially given I still plan to return to that TT build eventually despite the wheels literally costing as much as a motorcycle. I still remember the times when it wasn't like that though, and the $5k+ bicycles were literally only for professional athletes. I guess everyone just wants to feel like a professional athlete, and F1 is just not affordable enough.

[@JoshuaTootell]

Your TT bike will let you race against pros.

[@AndrewYakovenko]

@@JoshuaTootell haha, good one)

[@TheStaniG]

I maintain that mountain bikes are GROSSLY overpriced because the push pedal bike club have turned into an IDENTITY rather than people buying a product. Overpaying for bike parts and being gaslit into needing every last "innovation" is what theyve allowed bike companies to push on them to stay a part of the club. Wont catch me dead paying motorbike prices for a mountain bike.

[@corail53]

You said it. People buy the marketing junk hook line and sinker in this industry and it is literally going in circles. We are seeing "new innovation" when it is just a rehash of something that was invented 20 years ago. The ever-changing standards in industry are just there to keep people buying.

[@carterthiessen2664]

You see the same thing in the motorcycle world with Harleys. Don't get me wrong, I love them, and I get why people ride them. But the pricing for new Harleys is the same thing as the mountain bikes. It's become an identity and they charge whatever the market will bear.

[@borisjankovici662]

Nail on the head. 100% correct. And bikes are the absolute worst product for this type of faddishness. It has nothing to do with amortization of costs. Heck, if it did the opportunities to amortize costs would be greater for bikes since they ALL take from the same parts bin!

[@goldfever4570]

Yeah cos bikers don't feel any kind of identity and never buy into brand marketing

[@ellwoodwolf]

This guy trying to say the 8k bike is close to race..... hahahahah bs

[@Treacherous_One]

As a lifelong motorcycle and MTB enthusiast, AND someone that has raced both ( going back to the days of NORBA in the early 90s ) I'm going to call BS on nearly everything NORCO guy said. Most of those "advancements" are minor and barely noticeable to most riders, and are the equivalent of BNG. suspension tech is marginal at best when compared to a motorcycle because the forces it has to act against are often counter acted by the forces generated by the rider. so it has ALWAY been a struggle to figure out how to actually make the boingers boing without turning them into a pogo stick while under power (pedaling). this has seen so many iterations of tech and design to try to solve this problem, its impossible to list them all. shifting is done by the mostly unchanged basic design as it has been since the 1960. yes there have been refinements, both good and bad and sometimes downright gimicky. But at its core, its the same as its always been. Braking has improved, tires have gotten better, there have been some improvements in construction. frame geometry is ever evolving but its usually highly specialized for what that particular bike was meant to do. you arent going to want to ride a DH or FR bike XC or on the road, and vice versa. lets face it, all the REAL advancements that were game changers are generally written off because they cost too much to make actually justifying the costs. The truth is, people want pro level bicycles because they want to feel like they are special or superior. The reality is any mid tier rider/racer, could mop the floor with the average weekend warrior on their top tier bike while riding a mid level bike. If people really want to be faster better and safer riders, train. spending 8 grand on a bike wont get you there. As Ryan pointed out, for average use for motorcycle consumers, you don't need all the top tier gizmos. and even having them, most cant tell the difference anyway.

[@corail53]

I mean he is a manufacturer rep - can't be trusted to not have a biased view. I agree with everything you said.

[@Treacherous_One]

@@corail53 you aren't wrong, every time he opened his mouth it was a sales pitch of techno weenie speak. It reminded me of sitting around the local bike shop back in the day, and having Mr. road bike guy come in to order that special seat post that are 16 grams lighter than the one he had, because he was convinced it would shave a tenth off his times.

[@bloopasonic]

There is such a thing as "credit card speed" - shedding grams, deep-section rims, etc absolutely do make even an amateur cyclist faster. Of course no amateur cyclist *needs* a pro-level bike, but it is fun to throw a no-compromise race machine around a corner in a way that is hard to describe. That said - I agree with everything you said, the eye-watering prices are insane and really not justified by the marginal improvements that are mostly just marketing anyway. What makes it even more disgusting is that quality control is oftentimes nonexistent. I had to warranty the frame of a fairly upscale MTB because the holes for the bearings didn't properly fit the bearings. Spesh recalled a bunch of stupidly expensive bikes because their forks can break and kill the rider. Shimano is recalling hundreds of thousands of cranks because they can literally fall apart. Shit like that just doesn't happen in the motorcycle world (or car, or any other industry), at any price point.

[@Treacherous_One]

@@bloopasonic if you think the "no compromise " bike at the local shop is the same thing your favorite pro is riding, you are fooling yourself. those guys are all running full custom with one off or even prototype bikes/parts. It's been that way forever. even cog sets are often custom built. I Used to have drawers full of custom built XT and XTR rear cog sets for different courses in ratios that you would never find in any parts catalogs. There was famously one racer that jumped ship from his primary sponsor, but continued to ride the frame for years just repainted and relabeled to the new sponsor. Everyone knew, you could tell just by looking at it, but nobody talked about it.

[@bloopasonic]

@@Treacherous_One AFAIK the UCI rules require all parts used in competition to be available to the public? Some teams also sell their competition bikes at the end of the season, so it is quite possible to get an actual pro bike. But I don't really care whether my bike is identical to the one ridden in the TdF. I would love to get a bike that meets the same QC standards though - I bet Tadej or Jonas don't ride a frame where the bottom bracket is undersized and misaligned.

[@andrewince8824]

I blame corporate greed. Vitus is my proof of this. They're so affordable by comparison to other brands yet are easily of excellent quality and specs. It's something we've seen in many things. You're now paying for a brand name.

[@rossejera1661]

Theres a lot of brands actually that offer good prices. And yes sadly brand name plays a big part.

[@harrybenson9983]

You forgot to include customer experience. Most of the mountain bikers I have encountered on shared trails with motorcycles seem to be angry even when deferred to regarding right-of-way. While on my trail riding motorcycle I have been cursed at four times by mountain bikers over the years. I now just avoid those trails even though motorcycles cut the trails decades before the mountain bike was invented.

[@ThisTimeTheWorld]

I'm a friendly biker. I ding a bell and say hi or thanks

[@NONO-hz4vo]

I ride in both communities and trail riders on dirt bikes are a much kinder lot than mountain bikers. Hikers can go either way depending on how much they feel like it is a hiking vs a biking trail and the equestrian crowd is always the worse.

[@rgconnergmail]

Well, you would be grumpy too if you had to push your bike everywhere!

[@Schlabbeflicker]

As a hiker on shared-use trails, you learn very quickly to get out of the way or be flattened. Mountain bikers going downhill HATE to stop or slow down for people, and will make you acutely aware that YOU are in THEIR way.

[@tylerthomason9461]

You’re actually insane if you think 7500 for a bicycle is a fair price

[@h49suthar]

I have MTB worth 250 dollar which is very high-end model , alloy frame , 21 speed gears with Shimano derailleur , 29 inch tyre and its fantastic to ride. For 7500 dollar I can make my own bicycle with work shop and all the required tools...

[@dainiusvysniauskas2049]

@@h49suthar None of what you've described comes even close to high spec.

[@aaronleverton4221]

@@h49suthar Which model of Shimano derailleur and shifter did you use?

[@Minerals333]

@@h49suthargood luck buying all the tools for 7500 😂

[@matth8924]

@@h49suthar Sorry to burst your bubble. Run what you've got. but once you've experienced a proper mountain bike (around the 3K USD mark) you'll understand why they are so expensive... Its very hard to explain to someone who doesn't ride MTB why we spend thousands on our bikes.

[@8rett]

My two favorite things in one video hahahaha, this was great. Yoann in the box was fantastic

[@Starlesslemon]

So the bicycle argument is convincing yourself you didn't get scammed. A pro with a Walmart bike will smash you with your 8k bike.

[@diogomarques9663]

true, but that bike will be trash after 10 rides.

[@wayz5975]

nuh uh

[@720Two]

Facts😂

[@mergenocide]

@@diogomarques9663 Not likely. I dropped 300 on a Nishiki Pueblo, about the price of a Walmart bike and Ive driven that thing for YEARS across all kinds of trails with zero maintenance (because Idk what counts as maintenance for bikes) and I have zero issues. I've been riding it since march of 2020, literally hundreds of rides, I'm 6, 5'', over 300lbs and ride that thing hard af. Literally ZERO issues. Breaks haven't faded, rides like new. The idea that you have to pay the price of a fu*king CAR on a set of wheels and chains is pure cope. You were scammed.

[@ikarimisu0184]

that comparison is something else holy shit

[@terr256]

This is awesome! As a person who is a big mountain biker and riding I love the cameos! Also, this question comes up with my friends and now I'm just gonna show this to my friends.

[@Rancher1911]

That last joke was hilarious!

[@AleksiJoensuu]

Oh this is going to be interesting! First note: The Norco is a lot more expensive of a bicycle than the KTM is for a motorcycle. You could get a much cheaper brand new MTB, but that KTM is already on the sort of cheaper half of the spectrum. It's still a valid comparison, but I do think that they exist at different areas of their respective value for money ranges. Edit: Ah yes, as you bring up later in the video :D

[@AleksiJoensuu]

Heh, also like: "Why do you want the pro-level racing bike if you're not a pro?" Well, I guess a lot of people would buy the KTM MotoGP bike if KTM sold it at 8k and it was perfectly legal and practical to ride 🤣

[@adamswenson1093]

Yes, kind of like how a Ferrari is the same price as a Semi truck tractor, but they are in very different classes

[@KapitanPisoar1]

Norco is an absolutely average brand, nothing special about. KTM is more premium compared to Norco as brand goes...

[@kaptein1247]

The more expensive half of the spectrum also offers a lot more technology and newer more finetuned parts. Like they said in the video. A lot of bikes are cheap because theyve been the same for decades. But compare that to goldwings or the bmw gs'. The list goes on and on about the technology that gets put into those machines. While with bicycles its mostly just ergonomics

[@borisjankovici662]

The point is that they cost the same, but the motorcycle does vastly more and is made of far more parts. There is simply no justifying these expensive mountain bikes beyond saying that it's what the market will bear.

[@Josh_Hold]

I know they only put it there so we would comment but look at the other tabs. 7:07 As a mountbiker this is so true.

[@ilyafrey9038]

Cool, I had the same question at some point. Customization is the answer, but only partly. In the case you compared, the dentist pays for exclusivity (for nothing, actually). On top of that, most of those 1000+ components are outsourced from other expensive manufacturers like Shimano, so almost all components on a bicycle have at least double margins (don't forget the exclusivity one). And last, but not least, bicycles closer to 10k in price should be compared to something with R-RR-RRRRR from the motorcycle world. (here you also get a double margin on some components) Overall: bicycles are a scam

[@abhibeckert]

I've literally never seen a stock KTM. They're always customised - but since most motorcycle sales are secondhand sales, you don't order customisations as part of buying a new bike. Some of it would also come down to regulations - every configuration available on a new bike has to be crash tested/certified/fuel consumption verified/emissions tested/blah blah blah. Costs millions of dollars to do all of that and it needs to be done in multiple countries for each model. KTM sells a bunch of custom aftermarket parts you can install - from adjustments to suit taller riders to more comfort oriented seats to windshields to make a dirt bike ride well on the highway to an air filter that is worse for air flow but more reliable if you drive your dirt bike into a river. Third party accessories are obviously also available. You can pay your dealer to install any of them or do it yourself. A lot of us prefer to do it ourselves and KTM provides an extensive "owners" manual that includes instructions for things that really shouldn't be done by an owner.

[@niaedwards382]

For dirt/dual sport/street motorcycles, entry level starts around $4-6k USD, mid tier is $12-13k, and upper tier can be anywhere from $17k to $40k+ (stock). My first Mountain bike cost me $500 USD, my mid level neuron is $3k, and we all know that high end mountain and e-mtbs are going to be between $8-12k, but not much more. Road bikes are more or less the same. The used market is another story. As someone who owns a road bike (Madone), trail bike (Neuron), and a street motorcycle (r6), I see this comparison really lacks a true apples to apples comparison of price relative to lineup position. We are comparing a beginner motorcycle to a high spec downhill oriented mountain bike. A duke 390 is the second to last at the bottom of that category of KTM's street line up, whereas that Norco is mid-upper tier. The dentist thats going to spend $8k+ USD on a mountain bike probably isn't looking at a duke 390, he's going to get a GS type maybe the Duke 1290, which is $17k. The quintessential dentist/ weekend warrior motorcycle is the BMW GS,. is a $20k bike.

[@byjynydjshsnny2430]

but the other one is still just a bicycle its obvious that the margins are way higher.

[@niaedwards382]

@@byjynydjshsnny2430 100%, of course that’s true when you compare the margins on a high end bike vs an entry level motorcycle. But the margins on a high end motorcycle like a Ducati Superleggara V4 are terrible too. The thing cost $100k from factory, but is still just a motorcycle. I just don’t think it’s fair to start the conversation w “why do motorcycles and mtbs cost the same.” Apples to Apples, they don’t. I feel a lot better about the $5k I spent on my r6 than I do about the $3k I spent on my Neuron. I would love to know how much it actually costs to produce/build a bike vs what they sell them for now, because I think the value is abysmal. The tech may update far more quickly than what you see on the motorcycle side, but it’s also far simpler. Adding something like that fancy extra sprocket up front or a dropper post is far simpler than adding traction control or a quick shifter to a motorcycle. I think the AVERAGE motorcycle’s price and value is better justified when you compare something like a Duke 390 to a high end downhill.

[@rpower1401]

I have 4 operational motorcycles and 4 operational mountain bikes (two are electric). Quirk is I ride the bicycles more on both the KM basis and hours of seat time, about 4000km per year, largely commuting to from work. Out of town it's the motorcycle by default unless I need cargo space. All about balance.

[@danny-li6io]

Cycling has always been an “elitist” type of sport, so having a ridiculously overpriced, unnecessarily expensive product very much appeals to that mentality. Granted, you’re paying a lot for the latest research and development, it’s hand made, and has very high quality components, it still doesn’t justify that price point. In other words, people are willing to pay a lot of money to inflate their egos.

[@davidp.6303]

the customization is an interesting point, since the frame of a mountain bike is really the only specialized custom component. parts can be switched out basically completely independently of one another, and a set of pedals isnt going to make the whole drivetrain start acting up. a modern motorcycle on the other hand has lots of complicated systems that work together to make the whole thing run smoothly. in some sense, motorcycles are like mechanical watches and mountain bikes are more akin to custom computers. its hard to compare them on the point of customization since they are so different as consumer products.

[@thebikeracer]

Um...nope. Mtn. bikes all work the same to with way fewer parts. The major difference is weight. Maybe you get more with the suspension on a better bike, but the truth is that after getting into a mid-level mtn. bike, it's going to be tough to tell the difference unless you are a really good/fast rider. I bet if you put a pro rider on that motorcycle on a track vs any one of us normal folks, he still kicks our ass.

[@aluisious]

Your comment is a non sequitur. @@thebikeracer

[@thebikeracer]

Why? @@aluisious

[@ASAP2525]

Parts are not that interchangeable also standards are changing rapidly within the mtb world all the time so components 1-3 years ago might not always work with your bike.

[@rickywoods3101]

Different size bikes and people should have different size pedals, cranks ,dropper posts, handle bars and so on. Not to mentioned the different strengths or component for different type of riding, size and strength of the rider..

[@keepingitreal6912]

I was thinking it’s more related to the manipulation of the supply curve. Mountain bikes are as much as 60-70% overpriced and a correction is coming once true demand is realized.

[@dannygarland3637]

already has been big sales that mostly because demand has been too high to get anything in under 6 months for the past 3 years. new models are marginally cheaper but not by alot. us dealers net about 3-5% margin and soak up most costs a motorcycle shop charges (assembly+freight+tax+servicing) for so most likes no discounts from most dealers either unfortunately.

[@cyjan3k823]

I was hearing about that correction during covid, after covid and I still hear about it but it doesnt want to come. When everything is overpriced, including used market, you dont Have much choice (same applies to cars and motorcycles). Waiting, at least for last few years) was wrong choice

[@borisjankovici662]

People are just now starting to pay attention. Every name brand bike manufacturer has sold a $10k + bike for the last 10-15 years. This is nothing new, and it has always been ridiculous. Mountain biking has also become exponentially more popular. Some of it is genuine interest, and much of it is fad. There is no shortage of people looking to keep up with the jones who can be convinced there's value in a $10k bike.

[@dannygarland3637]

there is value in a 10k bike you dont know because you havent ridden them @@borisjankovici662

[@marcb4788]

The argument that companies should over charge just because ppl are willing to overpay for a bicycle makes me hate bicyclists even more 😂😂

[@mclarenf1lm374]

You're forgetting the part next to nobody actually pays the 8k price in the video Most bikes on the road are third hand, cost less than 1k, have had half of their parts replaced Most new bikes bought hardly ever jump over 3k On that note, if you've seen a straight handle bicycle without full suspension, most of those cost less than 1k brand new with all options to spend 8k on one means to buy the bicycle equivalent of a v4r

[@marcb4788]

@@mclarenf1lm374 maybe where you live, by me the bike enthusiasts outfits cost $500 alone as they ride in the middle of the road

[@drdumbo9124]

@@mclarenf1lm374eh not where I live. Most people really are spending that much money on a bike. Like anything though if you really use it and have a relatively low cost of living otherwise then it’s worth it for some.

[@borisjankovici662]

It's called the free market. It's the way it should be. Yes, be upset with the bicyclists who pay these prices. They are the reason bikes are expensive. If they didn't pay the prices, the bikes wouldn't cost as much. That is how it should work. He mentioned 30% profit for manufacturers and 30% profit for bike shops. Those are enormous margins.

[@johnschmidt1675]

It is the same in every aspect of life. A house in the middle of nowhere is worth 5x’s more elsewhere.

[@jeanangelo98]

One of my favorite FortNine episodes to date!