What is the Bike Industry Doing so Wrong?

[@dobbscycleworks]

www.cyclingweekly.com/news/price-slashing-pushes-canyon-into-the-red More bad financials announced today, this time from Canyon.

[@jaredfontaine2002]

Dude the industry MUST push expensive crap 💩 disc brakes etc because nobody would buy a new bike if they knew they could buy a Dura Ace 2016 road bike and be just as fast as the latest bikes. If Normies knew this the industry would collapse...

[@gk5891]

@jaredfontaine2002 I just don't understand cyclist. I can't afford a Ferrari so Enzo must be screwing me. Buy a Porsche and be happy. The rest of us will make do with our second hand Miata.

[@LFOD1776]

Jeez. Canyon went from $30M profit to $2M loss in a year!

[@layton3503]

Q - What is the Bike Industry Doing So Wrong? A - Overcharging --- you cannot compare the complexity of a bicycle to that of a motorcycle. Entry level Motorcycles are cheaper than mid-tier bicycles - it makes no sense. Sorry

[@gk5891]

@layton3503 It's not in their interest to "overcharge". You want to charge a price that maximizes your net profit. If your Ferrari you sell 14,000 cars for an average of $480,000 for $100,000 a car profit. If your Toyota you sell 11.2 Million for $27,400 a vehicle with a $2,800 a car profit. If Ferrari could cut their price $50,000 and make more profit, they would. If Toyota could raise their price $2,800 and make more, they would. The price is set to maximize the return. A few years ago the market was setting a higher price and now it's lower. Part of the industry will adjust and part won't make it. Just like any other business. The consumer always sets the price. If you paid $8,000 the bike was worth that to you. If you bought a $3,000 used bike instead, it wasn't. The industry will react to that.

[@sebastianelizagaray1155]

Part of the problem is with cycling culture. I have cycled on and off all my life. Last year I started joining some club rides from a local bike store. I was with my 15 yr old bike with 105 components surrounded by people with new >$5000 bikes and people were literally looking at me and making snide comments about my bike. The truth is I cannot justify the money to replace my bike and I was able to hang on at the front of the group ride just fine because I am really good shape. But this definitely discouraged me from joining the group.

[@netposerx]

Roadies? In MTB culture you might get looks if your bike is that old but MTBers are stoked you want to ride with the group. I love group rides as you get to see others ride the trails and see how you stack up with skills and endurance. Most MTB group rides are very accommodating so you never feel pressured to perform.

[@king1203M]

My bike is a Giant with 105 gears. I am not a race biker. And also i am much more confident that all this cycling will not help you when you are on a brink of a violent situation. So that why i did go back to box training and Fitness

[@mmurmurjohnson2368]

2009s 2010s bikes are excellent machines frankly designed around athletes who were doping, modern bikes are designed around cushy consumers. Keep your 15yr old rig add deep dish carbon wheels, an excellent upgrade, and smoke your group ride 🔥 I own a modern bike that's fun and different and fast but wouldn't really call it an upgrade, I burn 15k$ rigs habitually on my 2009 alloy Allez triple, With no plans to ever sell it, at a certain level of quality the differences are marginal. Ride on

[@doublejumpvideogames....]

​@@king1203Mcool story bro

[@Pmckean4115]

@@king1203Mthanks for bringing politics and homophobia into the conversation. Very productive.

[@andrewmayo6084]

Totally agree. The industry is eating itself. As for the snobbery aspect. I leave it behind. Ive been cycling for over 60 years.....on my own. Nothing can beat just being out on the open road. And if you want competition just use the clock. Nobody ever beats the clock!!!

[@GB-ez6ge]

Me too. I bought an honest to goodness used Gary Fisher Montage two years ago for $165 for rocky, muddy, rooty trails along the Potomac near my home. I leave the snobbery and aloofness behind but recognize that it deters sales.

[@AaronSchwarz42]

Do your own thing and go your own way, think differently This is the hallmark of the maverick American DIY idea when homes affordable ~ A whole generation of people who saw American economy boom after WWII Now we have globalization, price inflation, gentrification, climate change & worse

[@brandonhoffman4712]

I just started riding as an adult. My step dad openly offered his full suspension mtb to my brother and I, I jumped @ the chance! (2014 Trek remedy 7). I then broke my back in a car accident, gained 45lbs (on bed rest 5 months), healed up. I tried my walking routine, but my leg hurts and starts to get numb. I spent months being lazy, trying to change my body through diet. It began happening, but far too slow. The 1st thing i tried after 5 months was the bike. I went from needing a walker to lets try this bike before really walking... It almost killed me, i didnt make it around the block, and barely made it home. I could barely get off the bike, I had to go lay down, I was so sad and worried about my future. I put the bike away for 7 more months. I took it out 3 weeks ago, I've gotten my body into better shape, lost 15 of the 45lbs (before riding), and i was feeling like it was time to ride. Ive fallen in love, it burns my legs, hurts my ass, but i enjoy it! I feel like its my saving grace since walking hurts my sciatic nerve. Ive really only been biking 2 weeks with a 1 week gap because i bent my rim on a light pole (riding with no hands like I do). I just hit my 30mile goal 2 days ago, next up is 40, then 50. I do want a drop bar bike. I feel like riding in a group might be fun, but im here for me, and I can be happy solo. Im currently too slow for a peleton, im averaging 12.8mph (20ish km/hr) my max with the wind on flat ground with semi-fresh legs is about 20mph (32km/hr). I feel like my 2.5" tires and 3x9 drivetrain dont help, nor does the general mtb layout. Though they are probably less of a hinderance than my 200lb out of shape body.

[@gustavmeyrink_2.0]

I got into cycling BECAUSE I can do that on my own ie mostly to get away from people. I never felt any urge to join a cycling group or club.

[@rustyburger]

This is exactly how I ride - respect old man :)! - Genuinely. My goal is to still be riding into my 80s hopefully.

[@evilzzzability]

Cycling is suppose to be simple and aacessible. The industry has alienated people who still believe that.

[@Mike-jv8bv]

It still is and can be. It's just the brand names that are going crazy. This trend is everywhere, by the way. It will die off in the coming years.

[@redboyjan]

They're going bust so they won't for much longer

[@necromax13]

​@@Mike-jv8bv Cycling isn't accessible unless you go out of your way to find what works for you and your wallet. For beginners and broke asses, the entryway is straight up "buy used and pray you're making a good purchase", if you compare cycling to let's say, buying a motorcycle, you'd notice how f'ed up the whole market proposition is.

[@Mike-jv8bv]

@necromax13 tell me about it. Just bought a new harley. Love it though.

[@necromax13]

@@Mike-jv8bv Yea but what i'm saying is that with motorcycles there's a clear entry path into the hobby. If you were a beginner, you'd have the Royal Enfield Meteor 350 or the Honda Rebel as "my first cruiser" option, and on that price range there's a myriad of options, not just cruisers. If you wanted an "entry" level new road bike you'd have to fork out over a thousand dollars for a barely equipped specialized allez, or try your luck at the used market.

[@todd92371]

Remember when you were a kid on a bike. The freedom. The adventure. Not knowing where the next road or trail went. Just keep riding like that and all is good.

[@dobbscycleworks]

there's a song that totally captures that feeling. Yellow Bike by Pedro the Lion.

[@MarcDuchesne]

That's what they call "gravel cycling" those days, right? ;-)

[@justinbogart278]

My $400 BMX was the greatest thing on earth. Life was so simple.

[@todd92371]

AMEN to this!!!!!!@@justinbogart278

[@scruf153]

the best way to roll

[@lawrencefranck9417]

They have lost their collective minds. $14k for a mountain bike and $9k for a race ready motor cycle is totally illogical.

[@5280MTM]

This is exactly what I did. 20+ years of being in the industry, living in a resort downhill town and last year I was looking to pick up a new Trek Slash. When they told me the cost, I laughed and left. I decided it was time to make the shift to motorcycles. I bought a brand new Kawasaki and all the gear. I found a 1998 Beta Techno trials moto for 800. I know own 2 motorcycles, all the gear and I am still under what Trek wanted for their new Slash. No regrets. I still work part time in a small rental shop and maintain the fleet but I will not buy a new bicycle even with my pro deals.

[@SuperDeluxe80]

they need to prove to me how does a bike cost as much as a car because there no way they put that much time and money into a bike vs a motorcycle even a car.

[@wesstubbs3472]

@@5280MTM I can buy a low mileage BMW for less than most of bikes in the Yuppie bike shop around the corner. Let them eat cake?

[@pwang01]

I drive a 2012 car I bought for $12600 cash nine years ago

[@Hipnosis65]

The bicycle has been 2 wheels, a frame, pedals and a chain for almost a 150 years, and there ain't nothing a big bike company can do to make me, a 60 year old man, go much faster. Buy an inexpensive bike with 2 wheels, a frame, some pedals and a chain and enjoy yourself.

[@AlysaDunn-r6o]

that's what I love about a certain bicycle manufacture we stock at the store I work at. They have a lightweight single-speed bike with rim brakes, external cable routing, and upright bars, for $299.

[@honestreviewer3283]

If you're good enough for a $14K bike, a pro team will provide one for you. If you're not a pro, you don't need a $14K bike (but of course you're free to do whatever you want with your money).

[@the.communist]

👍👍👍

[@kelmuna]

Boom! Well said! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@Phil-dx8rw]

The reality is that there are a good number of people willing to Swipe their credit and go into debt to buy the latest and greatest bike. Most of those people, not all but most would be better served putting a fraction of that 14k into a coach or a good structuring plan. Instead spa ton on a bike put a fraction that and some grit into becoming a stronger rider

[@02SCDC5]

sames goes for people that buys ferrari and lambos if theyre fast enough will they buy one for you or just want to look fast driving slow 🤔

[@shimona500]

It becomes a status game for mamils

[@veloaa-montreal6924]

I was walking by a new Trek store and I thought "hey bikes! better have a look". I saw a 105 equipped bike and I was like "oh ya that's probably the only bike here I can afford", I Iooked at the tag expecting maybe $4K canadian and I was shocked; $9000!!! That's about $6600 US. For a bike with a 105 groupset!!! To be fair it's the 12-speed Di2 105 but still, that's absolutely insane.

[@dobbscycleworks]

I keep saying Tiagra 4700 is the new groupset of the people.

[@lylewalker5681]

This right here in my opinion is the absolute core of what’s wrong with the bike industry. There’s no real supply for like the mid-level, aggressive, fast training bike, that you can also sort of commute in, and you also feel comfortable locking up in the city. Either spend three months salary on a bike, or (after getting lucky finding someone who has something in your price range) you take your chances buying a used bike that probably doesn’t work out as well as you imagined and it doesn’t fit you well, and things start breaking down faster than you thought they would. There should be Ultegra mechanical groupset bikes with drop bars, that have aggressive geometry, that are in the $1200-1500 range. Not that 4200 to 6000 range. It’s just flat out, greed, like most things. These companies are just too greedy, and they’re run by people who only care about profit and don’t have any real attachment to cycling culture. It’s obvious. Or if they do, they are getting absolutely vetoed by people who are in the company and only care about profit.

[@carlholland3819]

@@lylewalker5681 there are bikes that are 1k. theyre used, but your grandkids will be riding them long after youre gone because they were made from high quality steel. guaranteed the groupsets still work too, you dont have to spend thousands of dollars on a bike, you just want to

[@patty109109]

And an entry level 105 bike is $2k. I bought a new mTB recently from canyon. There are others like them-the local bike shops charge massive margins. Canyon this second has a di2 105 bike with a cf frame for $2600 USD

[@DarrenX9]

What model were you looking at that cost $9k? In Canada the Trek Domane with 105 Di2 is CAD$6k (still a lot of money, yes, but not 9k).

[@pocket83squared]

In chemistry, there's this concept called the _limiting reagent._ The idea is that, in any recipe, one of the ingredients is going to run out first. How does that apply to bike riding? Well, long before your equipment performance has determined the outcome of your ride against your favor, your muscles have already fatigued, your cardiovascular system has reached its limit, and you've become dehydrated and/or exhausted. It's not the bike; it's the rider. Expensive bikes are either the luxury of a pro or the affectation of a chump wannabe. Unsure about which you are? Well, if you still have a job _other_ than being sponsored, you aren't the former.

[@dobbscycleworks]

Love this! and couldn't agree more.

[@JennVanMassenhoven]

We have a bike group in our city that does 40-80km rides but they insist that you have to sustain around 34km/hr to ride with them. We have another group, run by a group of young men who restore vintage bikes, that is a no-drop ride. They average about 20km/hr. They're a friendly, inclusive group and more reminiscent of what cycling groups should be. We are not pros, we don't need to ride like pros.

[@vodizzzle]

Understand the point, but 20km/h? That’s not road cycling, it would feel slow even on a fully…

[@deonbean6426]

Same in Oklahoma

[@enki42ea]

​@@vodizzzleyou don't have hills, do you?

[@vodizzzle]

⁠@@enki42eaI live in the Austrian Alps 😅 and I am really not trying to brag here that my rides have an avg speed of more than 20km/h …Or do you mean miles per hour maybe?

[@carlholland3819]

20mph isnt hard to sustain if youre in good shape. of course cycling is more about posing than exercising

[@cooperswayadventures]

Totally agree with what you say, I've been riding 51 years. Racing, MBs, road, travelling etc. The sport has become snobery and im glad these companies are suffering with their stupid prices! There's enough really decent second hand stuff about now.

[@deadstump4970]

I think it has always been snobby. I remember racing MBs back in the late 90s and seeing the carbon and TI bikes and thinking they were rocket ships or something.

[@cooperswayadventures]

It certainly has, but its same as any other industry now. A British company that begins with an R....,😂 used to be a great bike shop, now its selling carbon frames with problems...and its like most now, walking into a boring boutique with own brand BS

[@the.communist]

Spot on.

[@Gma7788]

There's 2 problems happening at the same time. Gen Y wants to be social but they don't know how to do that. And, bike industry was taken over by weirdos on the fringe of mass population. They've been told to do what they're doing by an even greater set of dumbasses in business finance world. Local bike shops died before the year 2000. I lost 3 shops and 20,000 Local residents. Bad doesn't describe it. My whole city was destroyed. I haven't had a conversation with a bike shop in 30+ years. They've been maximum shit for 40 years. The professionals are cheats and have been for multiple decades. I've RETIRED FROM LISTENING TO ALL MEN. I did that decades ago. Mass population keeps deluding you. I'm glad the internet is destroying their delusions. I'm glad they're eating themselves alive. They can keep destroying share holders money. Retail just keep buying up all production items. The consumer is irrelevant cause stock market keeps funding all this stupidity.

[@993mike]

On the subject of “gatekeeping”, I’ve been a roadie from many years and recently started mountain bike riding. Man, a lot of those dudes are a real pain in the ass on trails. They openly want you off of “their” trails if you’re a novice and can’t keep a pace they feel is appropriate, and many have no patience and mock noobs. That was definitely not the experience I had when I started road riding. Unless you own the land the trail is on, just deal with it and try being a mentor instead of a tool.

[@GamebossUKB]

Charging over $10,000 for a human powered vehicle is ludicrous.

[@jackbecker4866]

Tell me you know nothing about bikes without telling me you know nothing about bikes. I don’t disagree, but the industry is a weird and wild spiderweb of everyone kinda pushing each other back and forth. There’s a lot more money and innovation in these “human powered vehicles” than you’d think.

[@GamebossUKB]

@@jackbecker4866 I’ve been a cyclist for over 10 years, the difference in efficiency and features between a $1,000 bike and a $10,000 bike are marginal, the types of people who love riding will be happy with $1,000 and the types of people who enjoy luxury will he happy spending $10,000. There is absolutely no logical reason for spending that much money on a bicycle.

[@GamebossUKB]

@@jackbecker4866 I’ve been a cyclist for nearly 10 years, started very young with cheap bikes and worked my way up, there is nearly no difference in efficiency or comfort between a $1000 bike and a $10,000 bike. One is designed for functional riders, one is designed for luxury riders and enthusiasts. It’s fine spending that much on a bike as long as you aren’t lying to yourself.

[@ElAndresRodriguez]

​@@jackbecker4866 whichever way you put it, there's no reason a bicycle should cost significantly more than a motorcycle that is infinitely more complex

[@Reanimator999]

​@@jackbecker4866So called innovation in cycling is just wannabe engineers overvaluing their nonexistent skills to me.

[@andreaslindenthal6654]

When I started road cycling I joined a club of elderly bike enthusiasts, doing 150 - 250 km all day trips. One of the organizers, age 68! isn't even using a road bike, but a 25+ year old aluminum trekking bike, flat bar. He can do a 30 average and outrides most on alpine accents. Long story: ignore the snobs, enjoy the ride!

[@SteveWeltman]

So cool. I hope I’m that guy when I grow up.

[@scruf153]

I commute on a $700 gravel bike I mite hit 14mph going down hill the rest of the time maybe 10mph at most really do not care about speed not the point

[@splashpit]

I daily 30km for work on a 30 year old Alan cyclocross in hard yakka and blunnies , the Lycra fraternity don’t acknowledge me not even a nod .

[@GB-ez6ge]

But he could spend $6000 and average 31.275. What a Cretan!

[@andreaslindenthal6654]

@@GB-ez6ge He's too chill and has no ambition. And on any steep slope he just keeps outclassing everybody else so hard, it's not even funny.

[@sprocketandwheel]

I have been in the bike industry since 1982...currently an independent sales rep for many well known brands..in my opinion, the product managers are designing bikes for other industry professionals..they lost the common peoples need with proprietary parts..new look at me engineering and coming up with solutions to problems that do not exist..

[@SteveWeltman]

So thoroughly stated! I agree. No one needs a $10K+ full CF framed bike. It wasn’t a problem that I had. I wanted a bike and, if I only bought what I needed, would have bought an aluminum framed 105 groupo with rim brakes. These bikes should not cost $4000. It’s just not good for the sport or recreational rider.

[@HansensUniverseT-A]

You're spot on, I've been riding bikes my whole life, even being well into my 30s I've yet to get a driver's license, i don't need one, i can do anything on the bike, because of the increasing snobbery and ridiculous markets, i started salvaging and restoring old vintage Norwegian steel bikes, they're the most fun and comfortable bikes I've ridden, and they're functional too and extremely economic, they were designed and built to last generations of abuse and neglect, they came complete with full cover stainless steel fenders, a stand, lights, a rear rack, service manual etc, heck some even came with a neat little toolbox with a pump, tools for servicing your bike and a patch kit, we need more bikes like that on the market, bikes for casual regular folks who just want to get around.

[@henriks5008]

Exactly! I second that!

[@dobbscycleworks]

This just made me think of a scene from Silicon Valley where their beta test did incredibly well but then when they launch, no one wants to use it. They realize they had only given the beta to other tech guys, and not real people, so they didn't get any real world feedback just what their fellow engineers thought of it.

[@JohnBowl14690]

These $10K plus bikes are not for the common people. They are for pros. If you're not pro riding and want to go fast, build a road ebike. Or just buy one. But if you build one, you can slap in a 1000W mid drive motor and blow away almost all competition riders.

[@dougpence3862]

I think cycling was more fun when they were made of either steel or aluminum only.

[@asambatyon]

I feel the whole system is broken. When you watch GCN, they are never telling you about afordable bikes for enthusiasts. They showcase the latest and greates. Their videos are about: Aero vs lightweight, while most of us would not care at all of the differences. I personally felt free when I moved to a steel frame with parts that, while great (GRX anyone) I can still repair myself. No more drooling after things I do not need at all.

[@rustymustard7798]

Yep, i work at a bike shop but i can't afford to buy a bike lol, it's out of control with no reasonable options for regular people. There's no entry level anymore. And 90% of the stuff they hype up is meaningless to me, even if i had the money i'm not using dropper posts, wireless shifting and all that trendy BS. I ride singlespeed anyways lol. I just want a simple, solid OG two triangles of steel frame with horizontal dropouts, steep headangle, high BB a 60-80mm fork, mechanical disc brakes, and something like surly hubs with 26" dx32s. My only real options anymore are used dirt jump frames, 10 year old forks to avoid high travel, and just keep riding my dx32 wheelset.

[@Driver8takeabreak]

One of the reasons I can't stand Bicycling magazine. I was gifted a subscription by relatives a few years ago and it was so rough to read. It made me feel so bad about my old bikes and gear. And the bike reviews had "value" bikes in the $5-7k range, while 90% of what they were reviewing were over $10k.

[@Enigma71559]

Exactly! I ride a Pinarello. A 2017 GAN. I follow Pina on I-Gram and ALL they EVER post is the latest paint scheme on the Dogma F. You would think it is the only bike they offer. Which is probably the point. As for GCN, the bike companies provide them bikes for free, so of course they put them on the absolute best of the best because that's what they want to sell.

[@cho4d]

GCN is a company that wants to make money and they will not bite the hand that feeds (big name bike brands)

[@Enigma71559]

@@cho4d You're absolutely right. I'm not blaming GCN. It's the way business is done.

[@rangerlongshot]

As someone who started racing motorcycles in the 70's and mountain bikes in the mid 80's it's insane that a road bike can cost more than an electric start fuel injected 450 four stroke MX bike with state of the art long travel suspension, adjustable engine mapping, quick shift, traction control and launch control.

[@vetracer217]

My sentiments exactly! As an MX racer from 1975-2006, I have made that “very statement” so many times lol. Yep, pretty sad that we can purchase most any 2024, 450F for $10k, or a 250 for 8k. The disparity is OFF THE CHARTS.

[@erikgarfinkel3304]

That was 55 years ago.

[@gregkosinski2303]

Yeah it’s especially crazy with road bikes because by the time you’ve spent maybe $1500, you’ve gotten so much of what you could ever want out of a road bike.

[@gibbogle]

They will cost whatever some idiot is willing to pay.

[@JerryHazard]

​@@gibbogleThis is exactly the problem. I mean, spend what you like on whatever - not my business. But the industry also knows, and plays by that rule.

[@joekrusec9066]

No one ever asked me if I needed disc brakes…and yet I can’t get a good bike frame with rim brakes any more. A bike should be simple and mostly low tech so that when stuff breaks, it’s easy to fix.

[@peterjv8748]

That's ok. Nothing wrong with vintage bikes. I prefer them.

[@dgleitaocontratos]

That is my issue too, came back to cycling with rim brake bike, wanted to upgrade wheels, can’t find a good deal anymore, and if I do I can’t upgrade the frame later for that set of wheels.

[@rochester212]

TF are you talking about? There must be 500 million used bikes with rim brakes, I paid $220 for my most comfortable bike, a 2002 Merida with Ultegra 6500 group set, best bike I ever had.

[@joekrusec9066]

@@rochester212 I might not want a used bike.

[@Gk2003m]

My old road bike with wheel brakes does just fine. Except that when there’s been too much road grime chewing up the rims, those rims (usually entire wheels nowadays) need replacing. Else stopping from high speed becomes unpredictable. I would very much rather replace a brake disc than an entire wheel.

[@nl_2652]

I live in Colorado Springs. The bike shops here have actually done a really stellar job of stocking things the average person can afford! Very thankful for them and their focus on being people oriented over just selling.

[@dobbscycleworks]

those are the shops we really need.

[@RealMTBAddict]

Springs here too 🤟

[@carlholland3819]

stocking cheaper bikes is focusing on selling considering nobody can afford a 10k+ bike

[@tomruth9487]

@@dobbscycleworks I'm 71 years old and have been racing and riding since I was 10. I owned a bicycle shop in the late 1970's. At that time, clothing was something that we just started to sell. Online bike stores were just starting and as a result, we lowered our prices, on bike parts, to compete somewhat. This was a smart move for us as we got to be known as the lowest priced shop in town for bike equipment. We were a very low overhead neighborhood type shop. We started our shop with a $6k total investment. Yes, it took us a couple of years to build up our shop and inventory before the 3 of us owners could make a living. We were in an unreal time of the industry. There wasn't a bike that came in the door that we didn't have parts for or couldn't fix. Now I look at the bike industry and wonder what happened? When I was 15 years old I bought a full campy Schwinn Paramount for $234. I just got some Sidi shoes the other day for $250. It really made me stop and think. Yeah, sure money today doesn't buy what it used to, but you're right about what's happened to the bike industry. I don't need the same bike as Mark Cavendish and I never will. The bike industry has over time shot itself in the foot. It's been bleeding for a while now. I wonder if it's similar to the electric car industry? Not all of us can afford a $40K plus electric car or a $14K S-Works Tarmac. Sure, my house is worth a lot more than when I bought it, but I would give up all the money if it could get life back to some sort of reasonable level in this country. I could go back to downtube shift levers, I really could. I would love to see average people being able to afford a college education, a house and even a new bike once in a while. Wtf happened America?

[@anybody1955]

You do have a couple great bike shops in the Springs. Wish all were as good.

[@rolk9581]

You nailed it; I completely agree. I was feeling bad about riding my aluminum rim brake bike but no longer. instead of shelling out I will continue to rock old school. Thanks for posting!

[@dobbscycleworks]

rim brake for life. I am considering doing a video on building a little aluminum crit blaster for fun.

[@s.j.5850]

Your bike will probably outlast the latest & greatest wonder-bikes!

[@cframes]

Riders now a days are calling that "under biking", it's all the rage. Just goes to show the staying power of a good classic bicycle.

[@kiwishitloard2568]

I brought my aluminium frame bike over 10 years ago it cost me $1000 which at the time was a lot of money for me. I ride about 100kms a week commuting to work and it does the job. I see no reason to fork over 1000s for a new bike that will do the same thing

[@rolk9581]

@@kiwishitloard2568 I hear ya; I just returned from a fantastic ride on my Trek Emonda ALR. It still delivers great performance and feedback since the day I bought it. All I need to do is lube the chain and I am ready to go for the next one!

[@Phil-qz6oc]

My local bike shop is hopeless. Whenever i ring for a part, it's not in stock. The warehouse is 4 minutes down the road, but they don't allow collections, and it's a 5 day lead time. The shop is full of over-priced clothing, and about 4 or 5 staff just stood around. Meanwhile, 90% of the people who walk through the door come with their bike looking for a repair, and it's a 2 week wait as they've only got one mechanic. As much as i want to keep my LBS, it really doesn't benefit me at all. They need to re-think their structure, or go the way of the dodo.

[@-IE_it_yourself]

good points, stock these days must be a nightmare and bike shops need to step up against the industry and say fuck you we cant stock a million different non compatible parts. when i worked in a small shop it was hell each year some new tech that did NOTHING to improve how the bike felt and was way harder to set up. and bike shops dont get some special secret repair manual. you get the exact same shimano PDF then everyone can get. i feel you on the 2 week delay, but it is just what it costs, in a market where people undercut online and shops loose business. it is hard to have the space and find a good mechanic willing to deal with internal routed cables.

[@qcriverrat]

The LBS here are obsessed with lightweight performance road and mtb. Meanwhile the people who spend a LOT of money and time on their bikes twelve months a year are all riding steel and bagging up their bikes. None of which is stocked within a 90 minute drive of here. It's beyond stupid.

[@markg0410]

The consumer has it rough these days. First, your shop has to order parts because the industry has become so specialized that, as mentioned in other comments, few shops, if any, can stock all the various parts needed. Second, repairs take two weeks due to having one mechanic (bike mechanics are not known for their six figure incomes) and the backlog of repairs in the shop. This backlog is the result of technology that has outpaced the 'typical' consumer, requiring a visit to the bike shop for even the most mundane maintenance. There is a video on KZbin featuring a mechanic replacing worn headset bearings on a Cervelo with internal cable routing, hydraulic brakes, and a handlebar that had to be dismantled. How many people have the technical knowledge, time, and tools for that project? To change the bearings on my 2006 Scott requires three bolts, 20 minutes, and a cup of coffee.

[@lylewalker5681]

In my opinion, bike shops should be way more focused on affordable, lightweight, dependable road bikes with drop bars that people can also use part time for training rides. There’s just no entry level where people can walk into a bike shop wanting to get into cycling, and get something that’s comfortable and fun to ride, that isn’t at least two or $3000. And That’s with the crappy group set, let alone if you want or something like 105 or ultegra. It’s just too expensive, they’ve written themselves off for like a large segment of working class and lower middle class people. And that’s who could really benefit from cycle commuting, too. Everything’s tailored towards wealthy 60-year-old doctors that are riding bikes that they do not need for their performance ability, and just like to look flashy with their equipment.

[@qcriverrat]

@@lylewalker5681 The matrix of options is overwhelming to most consumers. I haven't bought a Trek in years, but last time I did they had 3 different levels of aluminum and 5 different levels of carbon. Must have had 4-5-6 different drop bar road/cross/gravel bikes. It's all gotten nuts. The fact that Walmart bikes and other direct to consumer options are a fraction the price is also pretty revealing. Is anyone willing to give their LBS the benefit of the doubt after the last 4 years?

[@Name-vu1kn]

Bikes also became insanely expensive because the industry decided that it was going to make solutions for problems that consumers didn’t have. Exotic alloys and electronic shifting sounds great until you realize it doesn’t make you ride faster, it made your wallet lighter though. All of the online sellers that you spoke of going under sell the name brand junk. Bikesdirect is still chugging along because they sell entry level bikes. I’m also the guy on the aluminum frame, mech grupo bike, average kit as you described.

[@georgekrpan3181]

Bikesdirect has a Ultegra Di2 carbon bike for $2799 and a Ultegra Di2 titanium bike for $3499. They also have a GRX 2x10 carbon bike for $1399!

[@Name-vu1kn]

@@georgekrpan3181 They also sell bikes for $300 to $400 for entry level consumers. They really cover the whole market.

[@sailingaeolus]

I've had four Bikesdirect bikes and really enjoyed them. Very reasonably priced and do fine when taken care of.

[@georgekrpan3181]

@@sailingaeolus I've had many BD bikes too.

[@lylewalker5681]

The electronic shifting push just seems like it was completely targeted towards wealthy, middle-aged and older men specifically. Like somehow people are afraid of mechanical shifting, or feel like it’s just too much effort. And it’s as close as you can be to actually going to an electronic bike, without actually going there. It’s just so goddamn expensive, and unless you’re professional cyclist, it doesn’t really give you any real advantage over mechanical groups. Start off cycling and use downtube shifters, you will quickly get used to it, you’ll be fast, you will not be spending $5200 for a road bike. So much of getting fast is understanding inherently when you need to use your gears, what gear you need to be in, anticipating what gear you’re gonna have to be in as you see a hill coming up or some undulations, understanding where in the cassette you are, adjusting the shift at the right time, using momentum, etc. All that shit is just something that real cyclists need to master.

[@surferx10]

Personally I think a good price for a new entry level road bike should be ~$500. Even $1000 is asking a lot to get someone interested in the sport. I've been riding a bikes direct wellington 2.0 3x7 (~$400) for the last couple of years and it's been excellent. There's definitely a feeling of inferiority, however it still gets me from point A to point B averaging 15mph, so that's a good enough introduction for me. As I keep accumulating miles the justification for dishing out ~$1500 on an upgrade is growing, but I still feel pretty satisfied with what I've got.

[@Phil-dx8rw]

I have been riding seriously for about 10 years and my next bike will be a used bike and I refuse to spend over 3k, preferably quite a bit less

[@mbgk4190]

They are asking a lot for an entry level bike but still put on a tourney groupset, it is doing ok. My biggest problem with it is that I am looking at child bikes with unknown brands and they have the same groupset, ridiculous... What can I do? "Changing the groupset doesn't make sense, just buy the higher model" No, I won't reward these companies for their disrespect. I will change the groupset with a decent one, no matter the cost, and use the bike as long as I can.

[@surferx10]

@@mbgk4190 I'm not sure if I'm understanding the connotation of your reply correctly. My bike has a tourney group set (3x7) with friction shifters and I don't really have any qualms with it. It shifts reliably and fast, and the maintenance is super simple. I would like to better understand my options and the cost for an upgrade to tiagra/sora (preferably with friction shifters), but that's a bit outside my current knowledge in bike specifications and compatibility.

[@dobbscycleworks]

when I first started there were so many amazing companies making entry bikes in the $600 range. and sure they weren't the best bikes in the world but they certainly weren't the worst.

[@surferx10]

@@dobbscycleworks I think the industry should target around that price for starter bikes. You don't need the latest tech, all you need is a structurally sound, safe, and reliable machine. Ensuring the components have an easy path for upgrades is the way to go. A fair amount of my first dive into the sport has been getting the right fit with the components I have. Swapping out the saddle, handlebar tape, making adjustments, getting comfortable with clipless pedals, etc. but those changes were only something I felt were necessary after learning how my body interacts with the bike. Having options for cheaper components makes it much more financially comfortable dialing in bike fit. I now have a good idea what I'd be looking for when seeking to upgrade, something that I definitely lacked at the start. Fortunately, I think I made a pretty decent choice starting with the wellington, it has treated me well!

[@anand123456789]

Love this video. I view cycling as a low impact good cardio excerise that I enjoy and help me get back into shape. I couldn't afford recommendations of shops/people. Some clothes and shoe combinations were more than I wanted to pay for the bike. A couple months later, I ignored the noise, wore a shirt that's a little tight, picked up a used Giant Defy 3 w/alu frame for around $300 with Sora groupset (my budget), watched some KZbin on bike maintence, replaced the tires, lubed the chain, adjusted brakes slightly and just began riding 3-10 miles when I can. The bike is way faster than my Walmart MTB and just a blast for me to ride. To all the snobs / haters, I will just enjoy the ride and not worry about it. Hoping to start riding 15-20 miles when the weather gets better!

[@Thetoad738]

I started cycling in 1986 at 12 after watching the Tour de France on CBS. My dad bought me a $100 Free Spirit from Sears. I wrapped Benotto tape on it, took off the kickstand, and had the best youth I could ask for. The only smudge on that memory is the bike shop snobs with their Campagnolo C record Italian racing bikes. My Free Spirit had to weigh about 30 lbs, but I would keep up with their racers. My bike was stolen a few years later. I learned at a young age that it's about the feeling, not the tech. I never bought into the bicycle arms race.

[@simonleeofficial]

Late 80s I was a c record snob. Could only afford the brake levers and hubs. 30+ years later my bike has c record levers and hubs.. not the same ones, I just figure I like them..

[@dobbscycleworks]

there is a special place in hell for bike thieves.

[@FATFORKS]

I had a Free Spirit BMX that got stolen!

[@ubetterfold1]

1982, college dropout, met a guy who said I could make money delivering packages, took my little sister's two-sizes-too small LADIES' FRAME Fuji Sports 10 and rode it for 3 months until I got a Stumpjumper Sport. My bike snob housemate, owner of a Motorbacon, laughed when I brought it home, saying "You spent $500 on a PAPERBOY BIKE?!" rolling on the floor, laughing. Perfect bike for a messenger, rode it to death.

[@rochester212]

Nothing wrong with a vintage Italian road bike, you can buy one today....but a $500 Merida does the same job and weights the same too!

[@pmcollett]

Fantastic video. Absolutely nailed it! I try so hard to explain this to people in the shops I used to work at and to those in the community. So many people view it as necessary to have a 7-10k bike for 2-3 rides a week. It's wild.

[@s.j.5850]

When you place form over function that is what you get. Bought a titanium bike on Ebay for at least a third of the price it would cost new. A LOT cheaper than a carbon wonder-bike with disc brakes & electronic shifting.

[@remotecontrol9874]

Any amateur who pays $14k for a carbon bike is a fool. One crash and there goes your frame's integrity.I worked in the bike industry for nearly a decade. Nearly everything is over priced: $150 bib shorts, $120 helmets, $100 Sun glasses, etc. Back in the mid 2000s All carbon frames were manufactured in two factories in Taiwan, but a big brand frameset was 3x the price of a lesser brand. No one knew that. Despite all my knowledge and years working in the bike industry, I still ride alluminum bikes w/mechanical components, as well as carbon w/Campag components. Good is good. I could not give a crap what some wanker 25-year-old kitted out with Di2 on a specialized S Works Tarmac says. I've owned S Works. I paid pro deal discount prices. I've also owned budget carbon frames and can ride just as fast.

[@ivandenkov7446]

I remember mid 2000 even most aluminium mtb frames were mostly done in probably the same two factories in taiwan - maybe with the exception with few botique brands like santa cruz and nicolai was all coming from taiwan.

[@paulv2479]

I lived in Copenhagen for 6 years and it was so good to see a place where people used bikes to get from A to B. The bike infrastructure in the city is amazing. Over half of commuters get to work by bike. And most use very basic, inexpensive bikes. Tradies have cargo bikes. Parents take kids to school on Christiania bikes. Virtually every corner has a bike shop. I loved it!!

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

I'm glad you find Copenhagen a great place for biking. Sometimes I find it a bit stressful but since there's bikes everywhere that goes with the territory 😅 It's also easy to complain when you are used to a place and not view it in your more positive light. At least no one is looked at negatively because of what they ride. Only how they drive.

[@paulv2479]

@@charisma-hornum-fries exactly! I always love it when I’m able to be back in CPH and borrow a friends bike to get around. A wonderful city!

[@AK-oz4ew]

Right, because Denmark has insane car prices. A cheap Mazda MX-5 that is $32,500 from factory is slapped with 127.6% taxes including VAT, so the final price drumroll... $70,000+ for that car. The crappiest rusty buckets in Denmark cost like some brand new cars in US. No wonder they drug kids to school on cargo bikes in pouring rain. The public transportation is top notch however, I loved DSB trains

[@bvanderford]

And the wet cold weather?

[@joules531]

Great video, and I agree with all you say, but there’s something else that we’re experiencing now, that may also be making cycling less popular. Bike prices have now come to the attention of criminals, on an entirely new level, that we haven’t seen before. Here in the UK, in the larger cities, riding a decent bike could result in you being followed by moped gangs carrying machetes. We’ve had some really nasty incidents, involving extreme violence. Riding a nice bike, at least here in the UK, has become a potentially risky activity, and I suspect that this fear, or at least the perception of fear, is contributing to this major suppression of the bike market. I’m in my sixties, and I’ve cycled on some very high tech road bikes for over forty years, but there is absolutely no way I would buy a decent bike today, even if I had the money. It’s just not worth the risk now.

[@arBaal77]

@@benm468 part and parcel of living in big city - Sadiq Khan, mayor of london. You peeps get what you vote for

[@HansensUniverseT-A]

CULTURAL ENRICHMENT

[@grottybt5006]

I have a torn up seat on an old scabby bike. Old cantilever brakes and I've lashed my lights to it with string so it looks more cruddy. If anyone tries using 5th gear and stands up while peddling away I'll be getting it back very soon anyway (the chain skips off and you fall quite severely). I just have a basic cable chain with a code, probably doesn't need that tbh I've considered spraying it rust coloured and sticking carrier bags in the spokes

[@jonshaffer5793]

I guess you got what you voted for.

[@Jump-n-smash]

There are thugs going around with machetes? In an European capital? Are you serious?

[@sketchy0078]

I've just gone and built up a long term dream bike. It's a part NJS fixed gear with riser handlebars. The total build came in at around £1000 for a mix of new and used parts. My local bike shop bill for wheel build and all the bearings to be serviced came in at £230. The smile that he gave me when I asked him for a 36H four cross wheel build was priceless. Please all look after your local bike shop. We need them as much as they need us.

[@TulaneAve]

After a lifetime of cycling I've learned that my older gear isn't what keeps me from being competitive. Its me. For years I tore up competitive group rides on older gear. Now I'm older and slower, the same gear still serves me as well and I have the self-confidence and awareness to either accept where I am or find groups that fit my abilities. Yes, support your LBS...not the corporate stores.

[@s.j.5850]

As we get older we just enjoy the ride. We can smile at the wanna-be racer with the $4k plus bicycle realizing that one day he too will finally understand the wisdom & experience of simplicity.

[@dallysinghson5569]

That's kinda funny, what you lose with age is strength and speed but not endurance...

[@RAWHEADSPEAR]

Im just getting into cycling. So far I've gotten everything second hand (bike, shoes, pedals) and im gonna only in $236. But im having the time of my life not caring what everyone else thinks.

[@stevedrake2031]

Ive got a G T agressor pro, and I'm doing just fine !

[@nashgawri4869]

I'm 100% in agreement with your assessment. Bike and apparel prices are out of control. Thank you for introducing me to NeoPro, I'll be ordering some well needed cycling kit soon. We all need to remember to distinguish between needs and wants and not get sucked into buying the next shiny thing

[@dobbscycleworks]

they're really amazing kits, I need to order some new ones soon.

[@carlholland3819]

do you need to wear spandex to ride a bike or do you want to? because i neither need nor want to

[@erictoth4903]

Bravo! You have clearly laid out the problem and provided action that we can take. A reset is in order. Unfortunately, I think there are other industries in similar trouble. I have riden for more than 30 years. It is part of who I am. Two years ago I was able to buy a new bike that slotted in above good entry level but way below the high end and it still cost as much as my son's first used car. The math doesn't make sense any more. Keep riding and share the experience!

[@carlholland3819]

you should have spent less on your bike and more on your sons car

[@ffwast]

That was exactly my thought on it,that costs more than a used car I'm not buying that!

[@andrewsearle9258]

Rapha have a lot to answer for - when they first came on the scene their jerseys were so much more expensive than everyone else's. Rather than Rapha being seen as overpriced and therefore failing, the rest of the industry just seemed to say 'holy crap, we can sell our stuff for THAT much' and then did - it evened itself out, but upwards. (For the record, I agree that Rapha's kit is of the highest quality for the most part, but even so...)

[@henriks5008]

Very true! I also reacted when Rapha came along! 200$ for a jersey is just stupid! And the ppl who bought it sheeple. Nalin, Santini etc are just as good. Which every day rider needs aero woven mesh in their garment? You can get aero socks and skin suits for tens of thousands of dollars, that is insane!

[@SmeriglioDavid]

The Jersey prices are just bonkers. No rhyme of reason except because they can and at that price they do not need to sell volume, only enough. I noticed the same; prices for everything else also went up when other companies saw some people are willing to dish out twice the industry standard. The bibs are another story. There is no guarantee their chamois is any better than the decent brands at half the price and bibs are about comfort and durability. Cyclists may need to go through many before the one that suits them best is found. Not feasible at 200+ a pop. I am looking forward to Neo Pro and the newer Van Rysel stuff which is supposed to be released soon. I hope the cycling market corrects back to reasonable levels.

[@litespeed65]

Rapha- made in China junk

[@Reanimator999]

​@@henriks5008When I saw aero mesh jersey upclose by passing roadie, I thought he was one of those gay people who likes to wear kinky bondage mesh shirts at local LGBT event.😂

[@markg0410]

I plan on purchasing new gear (for the first time) from Rapha. Their Core collection is the line that I am considering. Jerseys top out at $95, and bibs at $105, I believe. Yes, there are cheaper options, but having purchased poor-quality kits in the past, I do not mind spending a little more for comfort. That said, for my purposes, I cannot justify $300 bibs from Assos.

[@briannyob7799]

Prices shot up during the pandemic. The previous $5k mountain bike is now a $7k+ bike. I was bike shopping last spring and wound up with a Norco Sight A1 because ot was a decent value. So many bikes I looked at came with low-end parts and there were $8k. Now, those same bikes are heavily discounted.

[@CenturyRide]

I bought a YT Izzo for about $7100 CAD (+ tax). The next year my husband bought the same bike for $5,100 - same build. And then it went sub-$5K. YT makes great bikes and if you get on their email list, you can catch very good deals.

[@truthiscensored]

Even Cheap Walmart bikes are $500...before the p-demic Walmart highest price for a Bike was like $150 maybe $175

[@svr5423]

My most expensive bike is around 1000 EUR. Dahon folding bike with generator, 24 gears, LED lights with capacitor.

[@karelvandervelden8819]

A quality alu bike with sora/tiagra is all you need. With grown knowledge you learn to optimize it.

[@dobbscycleworks]

Tiagra 4700 might be one of the most versatile in their whole line up. I have a complete groupo of it in boxes just begging for a bike to be put on.

[@seryjnymeteopata2162]

i have the very same feeling about mtb goupsets - currently using 2x9 and i was shocked how well it works and how i don't need more gears (i have just adjusted range of the crankset and range of the cassete, to achieve what i need). components are so cheap - i can replace a whole drivetrain for a fraction of a 12spd cassette.

[@karelvandervelden8819]

@@seryjnymeteopata2162 In the hilly Algarve I allways ride 2x 9 or 11 speed on the road. The terrain makes you shift alot. I noticed that 9 speed is not a handicap atall when speed differs so much. This must be similar on mtb. In other words; you do not need a tight cassette when its up and down.

[@einundsiebenziger5488]

While I admit that nobody needs Ultegra, let alone Dura Ace, I have to say that Tiagra and even more so Sora are really crappy groups. Especially because you can only get them for mechanical disc brakes only. The jump in quality to 105 (machanical shifting, hydraulic brakes) is significant and the extra 400 €/$/£ are totally worth it.

[@karelvandervelden8819]

@@einundsiebenziger5488 That is exactly how the bike industry tries to seperate you of your money. When you are only on dry roads you do need diskbrakes either. Last year I bought a lightly used Trek Domane rimbrake with Tiagra for a small fraction of the cost of a new Domane.

[@timw4383]

Thank you for this. When I started looking for a more aerodynamic kit, to replace my 20 year old jerseys, I was shocked to incredulous, manic, laughter, asking "who the hell is this for?" I was wondering who in THE hell needs designer bike gear. 😅 I ended up with Trek, great quality and texture, great prices. Thank you. Now, send a copy of this video to everyone in the industry.

[@maraorem3347]

My experience might be useful to any bike shop owners or employees watching this: The bike shop that's a stone's throw from my house is a nice big shop, merchandising is done well, the store really looks good. When I walk in there, the guys just look at me. I try to strike up a conversation about whatever, routes to ride, new gear in the case, etc., but they just give monosyllabic answers. I brought in a dented rim and they said, "yeah, it'll be a few days, we'll call you." I waited five. They didn't. I walked in to see and I got, "yeah, no, not done yet, maybe tomorrow." No apology or recognition that their customer service could be better. I don't shop there anymore. I ride 7 miles to the shop in the next town over because they say hi, they converse with me about my repair, we chat about local rides, etc. The shop is small and minimalist, really no decor at all, but the people are good. An LBS is an experience. I bet Dobbs Cycle Works is a cool place to hang out and buy stuff. So is the LBS I travel farther to shop at.

[@brandonhoffman4712]

Ya that stuff would drive me away. Reminds me of the last time I went looking for a helmet. I was out of town, one shop had a helmet room with all the helmets. The only real advice I remember hearing was "whatever feels good". I was mostly left on my own. I just got my bike back from my local shop. Bicycle Discovery, Fountain Valley, CA. I took it there after bending my back rim. They are not only the closest to me, but where i got my 1st real bike about 30 years ago. I had 2 poeople talking to me about my bike in depth, both thoroughly surprised I was able to ride my bike home with no hands! We talked the issue up and down, back and forth, it was great. I found out my bike is a 2014 (hand me diwn bike). I told them i didnt have a lot of money even though I was holding a full suspension mtb. We conversed options of just getting a new hoop and re-spoking it. They said it would be cheaper to just buy a new prebuilt rim. I asked about re-spoking it myself, they asked if i had done it, they recommended a new rim. I reluctantly went with their recommendation. I left my bike with them as insurance since i didnt pay for the parts they needed to order. They called me back 3 days later (Saturday) informing me they found a cheaper rim that was also the same brand as what was on the bike, I said sure! The next Thursday i was up and riding again. Great shop and great people. I have 2 bike shops I love, my local one, and the big one I worked @ as a kid. I went in a fancy bike shop once, it felt stale and corperate. They did have a carbon frame on a rack that felt like it weighed as much as a can of coke. I remember twisting my wrist and inverting the frame like it was nothing, and thats all i remember, that shop is gone now.

[@SirSamTheThird]

COULD NOT LIKE THIS HARDER! I have a young family and simply cannot justify upgrading my 10 year old bike. When I took it to a new bike shop (recently moved) for a tune up they told me there was no point maintaining it because it was so old, i just wanted to be able to change gears smoothly and they wanted to buy a new bike. This is brilliant and I will immediately be looking up Neo Pro and seeing if I can get their gear over in Australia.

[@lesliereissner4711]

You should be able to get NeoPro stuff very easily: they are based in Brisbane! As to having a 10 year old bike, my newest is a 13 year old custom steel Tommasini that I was measured for in Tuscany. Nobody on a mass-produced carbon bike from China will look down on that.

[@CenturyRide]

Amen to this! I started a channel of my own recently because I want to encourage 40+ people like me to get into cycling and give themselves a fit, healthy, happy life in "The Second Half". I think cycling is the easiest way to do that... but you're 100% right: the bikes are crazy expensive! And when it's a husband and wife it 2x the cost. I rode my last mtb for about 10 years until some dude with Turrets told me I was riding a "museum piece". Jeez. And then I bought a new bike. 🙄 Great video.. I may clip a tiny bit of your rant for an upcoming video. Subscribed!

[@dobbscycleworks]

Absolutely! go for it, always happy to meet other folks making bike content as well so I will sub to yours also!

[@stevelouie5928]

I just rode my 25 year old steel GT mountain bike the other day and it still rode like the first day I bought it. Of course I had to do minor maintenance on it but the only thing not original are the tires. I paid $400 for it in 1996 dollars. Still rides great and I had a lot of fun. New bikes today are pretty showy but they have cheap components. It's like they are built to be thrown away.

[@mattdog1982]

90s bikes are the best. I still see loads of old boys riding around on Raleigh mtbs from that era… bulletproof (uk)

[@CanyonWanderer]

So true what you're saying there! I'd love to support my LBS, they used to be very well known in a larger area, but a few years ago they've also gone the way of only selling S-Works and LiteSpeed. The store now has one of each in the window, almost nothing else. It almost has this "Do you have an appointment?" vibe...

[@JanBanJoovi-ol1qv]

Been asking myself about this earlier. What I don’t understand is why $5,000 to $12,000 price range for a bicycle is normalized. I walked into a Specialized store recently and many of their bikes are around that price range. Meanwhile, a brand new Honda CBR600RR cost around $13,000. The bicycle industry has been messed up big time. Hope this madness stops soon as it’s really ridiculous.

[@brandonhoffman4712]

5,000+ is normalized because carbon has normalized. 2,500 for the frame, 1,000 for mid tier drivetrain, 500 for a budgeted cockpit, 500 for rims. Were @ 4,500 and dont have tires or bar tape yet. And I had to budget in cheap parts to get there, like an Easton EA50 stem and seatpost. An aluminum bike with a similar build is sitting around 3,000... Maybe I'm a stickler for SRAM rival eTap? Im fully sold on powered shifting, I'm not currently considering budgeting that, im considering building around it. I can pick up an aluminum trek with apex eTap for 2,900, but im also a gear head (the actual gearing). The apex's 11 tooth cog is a deal breaker for me. Im not far off on my own build using their frame and budgeting less meaningful parts (to me).

[@JanBanJoovi-ol1qv]

@@brandonhoffman4712 I ride an aluminium road bike with basic group set and rim brakes, costing no more than $750 overall. I ride with my friends whose bikes are carbon with ultra expensive group sets and all. I don’t feel im lagging behind during our rides. We’re not professional cyclists and we’re not competing in tour de france. You completely missed the point of this video. An average cyclist doesn’t need a very expensive bicycle. It’s consumers like you who contributed to the messed up cycling industry that we have now. Because now, manufacturers are almost abandoning producing entry level bicycles and focusing on high ends because consumers focused on showing off, they’re more focus on the equipment than just riding the bicycle. With all those things you mentioned, do you think an average cyclist needs a carbon fibre bicycle and all those expensive stuffs that the cycling industry is feeding to consumers? I don’t think so buddy. You will simply say to each his own but then again, it’s that kind of mindset that led to the cycling industry that we have now.

[@brandonhoffman4712]

@@JanBanJoovi-ol1qv how about showing me where the cheap new bikes are. I dont feel I missed the point of this video. Im still new. Your throwing out numbers on old very used equipment. I just replaced a wheel on my mtb that cost 1/3 of your entire bike to fix including labor. Like i said, im still new. You come off like some kind of reverse snob yourself. You just talk trash and offer 0 input beyond your trash talk. You are exactly the kind of person discused in this video and in these chat rooms, and not in a good way. Im contributing less to the bike scene than you are currently, so take a chill pill. Im just looking @ the market and trying to navigate it. All you are doing is yelling @ people and talking trash. Ill take the trash talk if you want to at least help me figure out how to not contribute to your post apocalyptic bike industry nightmare. But if you have 0 input, you're just a troll.

[@johnmcclure-ou7od]

Some great observations. I own and run a small community bike shop in business for over 20 years. Still love bikes and sharing my passion with my customers. My view is the "Bicycle Industry", is generally dominated by bean counters who think selling one $14,000 superbike is preferable to selling seven $2,000 great rides.

[@jimmypoe4707]

I am from Colorado and have been mountain biking for 35 years. Colorado culture has always been nasty t-shirt, cargo shorts, and low top hiking boots. Grunge, in a word. It was about doing it, the skill. I recently moved to Florida and while visiting Gainesville, the equivalent of Boulder, I came across a group ride . The bikes however blew me away. $5k, $6k yeti full suspension bikes. High end carbon specialized and trek. The cars all had thousands dollar bike racks and the people were completely armored up with fancy kit everywhere. This is Florida...no mountains! Flat! Nothing you would need a full suspension bike for. I rode without a helmet on a leafy path thru the forest and the shame I received was as if I raped a cat. Definitely a snobby, rich culture here.

[@slappopotamus1001]

This is the first video of yours that i have seen, and it earned my sub. Please keep this going. You are honest and knowledgeable, and you seem to be a caring individual. Thank you.

[@Elivagar666]

Great video - the section you did on local bike shops carrying primarily high-end bikes turned me off from the sport from the longest time. If the barrier to entry was a several thousand dollar bike, plus all of the other necessary kit (shoes, pedals, helmet, gloves, pump, spare tubes, etc.), I figured I was priced out of the sport before I ever began. But now that I've got a bike and gotten into the sport, I just think bike manufacturers and local bike shops are having an identity crisis of who they want to cater to. Frankly, it's why I bought my bike at REI rather than a dedicated bike shop... they have bikes priced for the layperson rider like myself.

[@gordonmiller6691]

I see the opposite problem. Many of the local shops where I live only carry the lowest end builds. Anything above 3K is a non returnable special order item. There are no more demo rides so the best you can do is pedal a low end bike around the parking lot just as a fit check. If you order a direct to consumer bike, you have to get lucky that it fits or fight to get it returned.

[@dobbscycleworks]

yeah direct to consumer can be a very very good option, but I think it may be something better suited to people who do have at least a little experience in cycling already. especially if you do your own repairs? then you'd be golden.

[@creepinwhileyousleepin]

Always gives me some joy passing old guys at the lake on their brand new canyons or S works with my single speed aluminum bike.

[@peterjv8748]

I'm way behind all of you on my vintage steel frame mtn bike commuter conversion and having a blast.

[@danb3498]

Great video, very on point. The industry is pricing itself out of business. They want to sell more lower the prices or close up shop, bottom line. Sad it is with many other sectors too. Shop service in many areas is declining as well, only want to sell new stuff, old stock is hard to find to refurbish high quality older bikes. Have a 1995 trek 5000 with a 105 group. It was stellar for many years, once shops started putting new components, mixmatched with old, performance decline began. Bikes are meant to be simple modes of transportation. Most do not need disc brakes on the road, electronic shifting, etc. Service, simplify and streamline the industry as a whole

[@Omeiden]

I cant wait to see the high end bubble burst, they are doing us so dirty its insane

[@dobbscycleworks]

hopefully enough where top spec stuff starts going real real cheap lol

[@carlholland3819]

it wont be long, people have less money now than ever

[@gibbogle]

I don't understand this. The prices are high because people are willing to pay high prices. So you should blame those people (if you want to blame someone.)

[@Omeiden]

sure if you are new in the sport, this would make sense. cause then you wouldn't know what lead up to this point, and how rampant the prizes have gotten. do you know what the retail price of the S-works SL4 was just 10 years ago?@@gibbogle

[@normadicn5700]

Honestly. I buy used or discounted bikes only. I ve a road bike which costs 300£ brand new(2016 model and got it in 2019). I ve a cheap Carrera mtb for gravel roads and light trails. I think people get sucked into buying instead of just riding

[@msudlp]

I still ride my aluminum Tiagra Lemond Reno with mechanical shifting that I bought 20 years ago. Never felt inferior rolling up to the riders with the latest greatest bikes. I enjoy cycling, and this bike has served me well over the years. Never thought about buying a new road bike. Oh and if your wondering, it cost me $800 at a discount from my local bike shop.

[@BikeVanDad]

So so so true… when I was actively racing back in college (2008ish) I remember being able to get a very good XC race mtb for @ $2000. Not to mention the fact that you could get entry level road and mtbs with 105 or LX/XT for around $750-$1000!!!! If the industry doesn’t reduce the amount of their “elite” bike models and increase their “entry” models, people will walk away from the sport. In fact I’m trying to find a nice mtb right now for my wife who wants to try and get into it and in order to get a bike that is not totall garbage and crazy heavy, we have to start at over $2300…. This should not be the case … loved your talk ! Can’t wait to see more of your videos

[@zimmejoc]

I’m doing the same thing. I want to find an entry level trail bike that is decent and there just isn’t anything under that 2500ish mark that doesn’t come in at 35+ pounds.

[@dobbscycleworks]

yeah I remember my DREAM bike back then cost $1500... it had Ultegra...

[@bjmaston]

You may be interested to learn about quantitative easing?

[@VisionQuest7]

Living in a small apartment, I wanted a tri-fold Brompton but could not find one I could afford, so I bought a clone and when I brought it into a local shop that specializes in Bromptons to check out, I mentioned it was a clone and everyone in the shop turned to look at me! When I picked it up the next day the Brompton specialist admitted it was a good sturdy copy.

[@robertcrawford718]

Can you provide the name of this clone, along with whatever information might be pertinent?

[@VisionQuest7]

@@robertcrawford718 Other brands are "3Sixty" big in China plus "Mints" & "Pikes" . They all pretty much resemble the Brompton (think it's just one factory producing) difference is the name print on bike.

[@VisionQuest7]

Also 3Sixty is big in China, liaoge seems to be making wave by adding its own improvements to the basic design.

[@Daniel-yf9iy]

Exactly. GCN did a good video on “the bike you want v’s the bike you need.” I’d love to to restore a late 80s Colnago or even build a titanium frame and I could do it for less than 3 grand and the frame would be less temperamental than a high dollar carbon frame. In fact last year I bought a steel gravel bike (Kona Rove DL) and love it. Comfortable, responsive, I even signed up for an organized century to raise money and had a great time. Don’t get me wrong I love Ferraris but that doesn’t mean (even if I had the $$$$$$$$$$$) it would be a good choice for my lifestyle.

[@s.j.5850]

Smart man. The secondhand market has a lot of gems. Just bought a titanium bike with Ultegra components & Mavic wheels for $1,200

[@papalegba6796]

Used market most definitely where it's at. Crazy bargains out there if you're patient, Facebook good in the UK.

[@Daniel-yf9iy]

@@s.j.5850 Thank you! I’m not into fast group rides or racing so gives me a lot of flexibility.

[@Daniel-yf9iy]

@@papalegba6796 Thank you! 😊

[@daveanolik8837]

Great rant! I’m seeing community bike shops selling used gear, affordable used bikes, etc leap past the specialized and trek shops here in Oregon for what that’s worth. The LBS’s I’m seeing make it have adopted a whole e-bike thing: sales, maintenance, rentals. The community shops aren’t just living on sales - behind the curtain is always a dedicated board with experienced public-sector grant and fundraising chops.

[@dobbscycleworks]

yeah that is definitely driving sales hard. the trails out here are full of people on e-bikes now

[@raceace]

The covid pandemic aside, it's incredible to see so many industry giants going to the wall with so many years of ridiculously expensive Bicycles at all levels of performance. Sure, make hay while the sun shines, but a focus on short term profit and gouging eventually leads to a backlash.

[@leart78]

covid was a plandemic not a pandemic

[@nunyabidness3075]

Im not that familiar with what happened in the industry. Lots of industries raised prices, or focused on high end products due to high demand and short supply. How did these companies differ?

[@brokenrecord3523]

​@@nunyabidness3075 "and gouging eventually leads to a backlash." Does it matter if they differ or not? Everybody's doing it doesn't feel like a good reason.

[@dobbscycleworks]

bingo.

[@daltonbedore8396]

​​@@nunyabidness3075they dropped their ability to pivot towards affordability when the "sun stopped shining" and now their business model isnt competetive

[@yamahaespen]

The positive from this is that the people buying overpriced bikes will likely leave a good bike for us to buy on the used market as they upgrade

[@tokyojon4344]

When I was in high school, early 1980s, I bought a $200 bicycle called the Windsor International, black and gold. With that touring bike I rode with AYH (American Youth Hostels) from the GW Bridge (New York) to Montreal, Canada. It took just over two weeks. One of the highlights of my life. And the bike held up great. Even today, I see no need for a higher quality bike than that one, unless of course you're a professional racer.

[@s.j.5850]

AYH in lower Manhattan - the good old days!

[@tokyojon4344]

@@s.j.5850 Yes, I remember it well. Took three of those week (or two, or three week) trips in total. ... among the greatest times of my life.

[@keithhunter3910]

I was a Cat 2 racer in the early/mid 80's, and up until 10 years ago, I felt like I was slumming it if I didn't Dura Ace and XTR bikes. I now have 5 bikes and all of them are Craigslist purchases. As far as components, they are all mutts with mixtures of 105, SLX, XT, and Ultegra, and three of them are steel. Riding single track on my Ritchey P-650b makes me really happy. The big upgrade for me is having disc brakes on everything.

[@MrShanebizzle]

Great video man. I just bought my first gravel bike from a local place in MA, “Landry’s Bicycles.” They didn’t try to talk me into something I didn’t need, rather something that would be better suited to how and where I ride. So that was awesome. I see these trends in almost every industry, where if you are buying the “cheapest” of whatever product, you’re a “beginner,” where if you want to show you “ride” or “surf” or “catch”, you “NEED” the “PRO” or “ELITE” model. And with influencers who’s sole mission is to huck products to make a commission, and advertisers doing all they can to widen the gap between rich and poor, I think people are just slowly starting to not be able to afford even the “beginner” stuff. Not sure what the answer is other than just buy whatever you like and try to not fall for all the marketing and that just because something is more expensive, doesn’t always mean it is better. Anyway, thanks for articulating things so nicely in the vid!

[@renniealba]

Thanks! My twin brother and I started in the sport at 6 raced for a majority of our lives. We both think the pricing is outrageous. Also, entry fees to local races too are insane!

[@mac9954]

6 months or years?

[@dobbscycleworks]

yeah thats another thing, they have gone bonkers in the last few years

[@tbz1551]

14:06 100% agree! I consider any potential cost difference at my LBS vs online as a small investment in local cycling advocacy, as it almost always starts at a good LBS. A strong LBS usually is a good indicator of a healthy cycling community. Supporting that by simply shopping there for the things I need, just makes sense!

[@S9999Frank]

"free repair" That is funny, changed all wires, one shifter, and some other things. The cost was around 1000 euro, which was incidentally the same as I bought the bike for on a black friday sale a few years earlier.

[@QABCOM]

Man you are preaching and I thank you! I have been feeling this hard! When my parents bought my first 🚴 bike in the late 80s this was unheard of. Now you have to have the latest and greatest!

[@ccclll987]

I was a mountain biker as a kid. Now I wanted to get back into the sport only to find out motorbikes are cheaper. I bought a motorbike.

[@drunkdriver]

That's the right choice

[@gregtitus2467]

Excellent video. The gap between high-end and entry level was very, very well articulated, and not just because I agree with most of what you said. I think you hit the nail on the head. Well done!

[@dobbscycleworks]

thank you so much!

[@bruceburnes3305]

Love the message and the commitment to our local retailers. I was given a performance reward about 15 years ago and bought what I think is the base level Madone, it was about $3,000. My kids, 30 something, are constantly asking me to get something more expensive just because it's New. I tell them I won't live long enough to be a better cyclist than my Madone is a bike. I'm blessed to have it. Tailwinds and friendly traffic, chip

[@andynaz5631]

The snobbery is what keep me away from bike shops. I walked into a bike shop and it was like they didnt want me in their cycling society. Im good with that.

[@thedanchan1815]

From a mechanic/ bike shop employee. Your first road bikes should be >500 and used. Your next one should likely be aluminum, disc, tiagra-105 and

[@mutex1024]

Why should your 2nd road bike be more expensive than your first?

[@dcgregorya5434]

I think suggesting used instead of just cheap is a bad idea... because yes, as someone into cycling, if you're watching you'll come across really good used bikes for cheap... but if you're new and just trying to find a bike to get out there on you'll notice most of the bikes for sale are garbage Walmart bikes selling for $50 less than their brand new price. It's defeating when you can't find anything good, you'd be better off at least being out there on an affordable bike. Just my opinion as a frustrated beginner.

[@oscarcaruso204]

The bike industry has been ruined by the same people who ruined car buying, FINANCING , manufacturers realized that if you can purchase a bike for $ 3900.00 intermediate level cash or $9000.00 for the latest and the greatest for $250.00 a month for 36 months , people always choose the latter! Great video !

[@neillippy]

I used to work for a bike shop and could not agree with you more. Support your local bike shop. You really do need them!

[@dsmhiggins67]

Bike companies started believing the high end customers were the entire section of the market that they should target… and ignore everyone else. It’s insane. Companies like decathlon will be the only survivors.

[@Mike-jv8bv]

This isnt just the bike industry this is every industry going crazy over hyper luxury and ultra expensive. This is the tell tail sign of an economy going crazy before recession.

[@marlonhernandez706]

I grew up very poor and my first bike was a rust bucket. I had it at the age of 14, my father made me throw it away, it was heartbreaking for me since it gave me a sense of freedom and happiness to ride it around. My second bike was not much better, it had no breaks but I rode this thing until the wheels fell off.

[@Smaug1]

Local bike shops are not doing themselves any favors by having horrible hours. They are closed by the time most people can get there from work. Closed Sundays. Open not very long on Saturdays when people actually want to be out riding.

[@johnlowkey359]

Whichever brand is bold enough to make a rim-brake carbon frame that easily builds to

[@dobbscycleworks]

For real, hell even last time I weighed my 2013 Tarmac it was sub 17lb from all the changes I had made. If you made a new rim frame in the 850g range the entire hill climb community would probably lose their minds and crash the market for second hand 2010 Super Six EVO's lol

[@rlm4471]

The reason that the industry wants to move away from rim brakes is that they think everybody wants carbon rims, and it is way easier to build carbon rims if they don't need to serve as a braking surface. Also, disc brakes are way better for most off-road riding with fat tires, and gravel bikes are super trendy right now. I mostly ride a 2009 Jamis Aurora steel touring bike with canti brakes. I would like to see rim brakes stay relevant, because they're light, cheap, and effective enough for many riders, but that will only happen if riders ignore what the industry is trying to do.

[@patohara175]

Preach bro, spot on 🙌🏼🙌🏼 What you’re talking about is def part of why I got away from road and got into MTB 🤘🏼😎

[@ridetotheright1]

I started riding in 1983 when I was 12. I have seen so many changes in technology in road bikes since I bought my first Raleigh Olympian steel road bike. My desire to go faster and faster over that 40 years had me throwing lots of money at minimal gains. Fortunately, I had a limit, and the bike industry not only pushed way past it, they totally turned me off.

[@JonathanCooper-t3q]

Well said ! As a 66 year old keen cyclist I have just invested in a second hand Ron Cooper steel road bike .. £199 plus a further £200 from my LBS skilled engineer upgrading bars and stem plus bar tape and chain etc. it rides like a dream and brings that smile to my face.. Ok I have other bikes - most of which are pre owned - but key is to ride them and have fun. My gravel bike is the one I use the most due to its flexibility and it is 4 years old and after 2,000km is still a joy to ride. I hope the industry wakes up and takes the heat out of prices. Brilliant sport … LBS are the key to supporting individuals - a good stop off for coffee and cake and someone to chat with hopefully..

[@NickTheDenverDirtJumper]

I'm a 105 guy all the way. Cycling is the new golf.

[@rochester212]

Oh, Tiagra is too good for you, huh? I guess you also change bikes every 5 years? You're just like the rest of them.....

[@NickTheDenverDirtJumper]

@@rochester212 yep you got me!

[@kamilkurzynowski3836]

People buy wines, NFTS, convertibles, art, watches etc. It can be an expensive hobby, but at least you can ride it. Cycling industry just grew up to cater to enthusiasts with deeper pockets. The only people offended by reality of it are people who want to assign some kind of strange merit to the simple act of cycling. But don’t get me wrong, I’m happy seeing companies like Rapha failing. Not because of their misfortune, but a simple fact of how stupid their marketing is. They admited on multiple occasions that their kit is severly overpriced, by regularly discounting it. Customers, are not stupid, they learn, and they did in this case. I once talked to a market rep of Nikon and asked him why don’t they sell old stock at a good discount, he told me that this would be an offence to the customer who paid full price. And in case you haven’t noticed, this whole chain of disasters is a simple market correction.

[@evanshaw17]

Totally agree with your analysis! I’m 75. I was a professional cyclist. My bicycle at the time cost me $250 was handmade by Aizon Trout and have the best Campagnolo equipment. I still have it. It works beautifully buying a bicycle that cost me as much as my used Prius it’s absolutely absolutely ridiculous. Driving away. The local bike shop is also a nightmare. I totally agree with you. Keep up the good work you’re right on.

[@ChrisOakes-z9s]

The problem is the bikes and their parts are ridiculously expensive, I refuse to believe that a bike regardless of the materials that are used in manufacturing or the technology required in developing a top end bike costs more money than a motorcycle or even some cars. It’s fast becoming a rich persons sport and someone is getting unnecessarily rich somewhere at the customers expense. I love cycling but this is crazy.

[@lolatmyage]

Just looked up some locally available parts - 5 meters of tubeless rim tape - 105 euros, two disc brake pads - 10-20 euro (same price as 4 brake pads for a car), brake disc - 15-70 euro (same or more as ones for a car) The prices are just insane and have been for a long time, it really is nothing but a fashion and lifestyle thing. There is no way 21 euros per meter is a normal price for that tape, there's no way a tiny 10-15 gram brake pad or a little circle of sheet metal costs the same to make as ones for a car. Bike parts are priced like luxury fashion items

[@JFomo]

Agreed, probikekit was the bomb back in the day.

[@dobbscycleworks]

one time they were a day late sending an order to me, which means it still arrived in like 4 days, and they included a hand written apology, a bottle, and a $25 gift card.... like.... just phenomenal. They didn't have to go above and beyond like that! But they did, because they got it.

[@MercyKillingsRides]

Man, thanks for this video. I didn't know who else shares my frustration with the sport's costs.

[@user-xg6zz8qs3q]

As an outsider looking in, this video is convincing me not to get into cycling. I recently bought a 300€ city bike from a mainstream sports shop. It's a pretty slow bike, but it's so practical for commuting around the city. The gearshift is surprisingly useful. The breaks break. I use the rack frequently. What more could you want? More expensive bikes seem to have fewer convenient features for commuting. And I think you guys are missing the point. Enjoy the ride. Save money on bus tickets. Save time during rush hour. A 300€ bike pays for itself in bus tickets. You won't die if you use a steel frame with a bottom of the barrel Shimano shifter and generic breaks.

[@lylewalker5681]

I get what you’re saying, but I’m assuming you’ve never had like an ultegra groupset on a bike or something like that. I assure you, it’s much more reliable, consistently works for a much longer period of time, it doesn’t lose the pull of the brakes as fast and need a Tune. The derailer shifts crisply for a year or two, without even needing to touch it. It makes cycling easier and more fun… in my opinion, and I promise you I’m not being a snob. But if you got a fast, light bike with an ultegra group set, you’d understand what I was saying. It makes a difference. And I’m all for cheap beater bikes that you can just commute with and not worry about getting stolen. But there’s something about a really nice, light, fast bike that makes you wanna ride. I think those bikes should be made in on the market new for much more affordable prices. People would get in a cycling a lot more, and then they’d move up to the higher priced models. Buying fast bikes and not going broke. I know that’s simplistic, but it’s the truth. They should find a way to make it happen.

[@user-xg6zz8qs3q]

@@lylewalker5681 Yeah I get that. But bike theft is so high in my city. I purposefully bought a baby blue woman's bike as cheaply as possible. I like that I can always buy brake pads, air chambers and miscellaneous parts for just a few euros. I tried a 1000€ gravel bike from Decathlon for 5 minutes and it was so fast and with minimal effort. However, the owner said that he wouldn't dare to park it in the street. So it's utterly useless for commuting. I am sorry. There's always the option to buy old and ugly road bike frames. And I see quite a few of those in the streets. I call them Frankenstein bikes. That's probably the next step forward. Can't the industry mass produce cheap bike frames and sell them to enthusiasts? Scratch that. Decathlon sells dope gravel bikes for around 1000€.

[@lylewalker5681]

@@user-xg6zz8qs3q I get what you’re saying. But I live in a city with a very bad drug problem with extremely high theft rates, and I have a flashy/expensive looking bike. And I’ve managed to keep it from being stolen for years. You can really lower your risk with some easy risk management decisions, and it’s not very complicated. Very simple stuff, like not leaving it locked up for more than two hours, definitely not leaving it locked up overnight, multiple locks, a lot of other things. Another one is having SPD pedals. Not for everybody, but bike thieves look at a bike with SPD pedals, and probably a lot of them pass. Because it’s hard or impossible for them to ride off once they defeat the lock. I still worry about it, obviously. But a lot of times, unfortunately, bike theft is a choice that people make. If that makes sense. Not to victim blame, but yeah. If you lock your bike up in a high traffic area with a cable lock and walk away from it for six hours, you are making a choice.

[@user-xg6zz8qs3q]

@@lylewalker5681 I have a U lock with an extra cable. It's the bare minimum. You can't do much more than that unfortunately. I am still weighing the pros and cons in my head. My cheap bike has strong utility. I am getting a fair bit of exercise out of it. And my anxiety levels parking that bike outside for 6 hours are low. Life has taught me that getting more luxurious furniture, cars, appliances, electronics, kitchens etc... is just not worth it. The most basic stuff goes a really long way.

[@9023gregb]

I go by the MRSP Challenge. Can you ride one mile for every dollar in the MSRP of your bike in a year? If not, you spent too much

[@WilyTuber]

It's a pleasure to hear somebody put out a focused, in-depth, and well paced, non-rambling analysis / discussion ON ANYTHING. This is a mega-ego, elitist hobby / sport and it always will be.

[@alessiozamboni4694]

Nah, it's the cyclists' fault... most people I know who do cycling regularly are obsessed with weight reduction, carbon fibre, etc... even if they don't compete. Most people don't understand you shouldn't buy the bicycle of the pros if you are not a pro; they just spend thousands of euros to save 500g on their bicycle because that is what pros are doing. The problem is that consumers often want what they perceive as the best instead of what is enough for their needs... It is the customers' fault, not the big brand's fault.

[@LVQ-so5th]

It's all relative. A person making $50k a year and buying a $2000 bike is spending the same percentage of their income as a person making $250k and buying a $10000 bike. But many here will say that the latter is being extravagant and is somehow bad for the bike industry. Buy what works for you and don't worry about others.

[@s_vincent6942]

You're missing the point. His only point is that there needs to be more affordable options.

[@michaelguerrera1463]

Dobbs, great content! My wife & I are small business owners since 2002. We're not hurting, but as a responsible fiscal minded individual budgeting is always back of mind! However my three road bikes have all been used, including my Jamis city hybrid. First: Caad10. Beautiful, no nonsense machine. Sold it tho size 60 just too big for me. Second: superSix Evo disc. Still ride it. Great bike, I love the engineering and ability to rip it up and find the comfort for those longer rides. Third: Scott CR1 elite. Beautiful compromise of a light, fast quality road bike that is very very capable, comfortable and looks amazing. This one always is calling me to get out! Im 52 now, I've been cycling all my life, road bikes for the last 9 yrs. All my bikes I've purchased used, did my due diligence on inspections and research. I can't see dropping that kind of serious cash when so many people simply will for example pay new $5k for a S works or canyon when you can pick them up for literally half on the used market because it's not what they thought, cycling. People sell for so many reasons too like always wanted the latest greatest... Not that I would purchase any of those in particular because I don't race, so recreational and group riding is my jam with an occasional few annual memorial or cancer/ support rides. As far as the snobs with the bmw bikes and expensive brand kits, well think about it, they have to act that way to justify the ridiculous money they spent, their bitter, and wont actually accept the true spirit of cycling, which is: embrace newbies, give back, get fit; body mind & spirit and freaking enjoy it for what it is: cycling. It's for anyone and everyone, not just those who can "afford" tge best stuff! it's not a fashion show, not a contest of the best/ most modern equipment offered... But they can have it. And their missing out on the most important part of cycling: freedom and community at the same time. Add some fun tech, competition and cool kits snd you have yourself an amazing outlet with hopefully great company that isn't trying to keep up with the Jones or needing to have "the best" when its mostly about pushing pedals and enjoying the ride! Thanks for the perspective! By the way, I've found many jerseys, great jerseys for awesome deals on eBay! I can't see dropping so much cash on unnecessary "brand" kits. Some of the best conversations I've had in life have been during a cycling event or group rides! Be good to yourselves!

[@Sith_Holocron_]

Rapha not Raphia. Raf-Fuh. And they are owned by the same people that own Bentonville. The wal-mart family. They state they do it because they love cycling and don’t care if you buy it or if they make a profit. They shouldn’t be included in your list. It’s literally a pet project of some billionaires

[@EgglyMcBagelface3]

I wear my work shirts when I ride. Chumps pay for cycling jerseys.

[@dobbscycleworks]

psh get out of here, I've seen you in kit with my own two eyes. that lycra clad butt fading into the distance as I gasp for breath.

[@EgglyMcBagelface3]

​@@dobbscycleworksYou've never seen me ride in anything other than a t-shirt. And I'll ride short-less if need be!

[@AGardella]

I have a 1986 Cannondale SR900, my dream bike that I purchased used for $280 that I still get excited about riding. I also own a 2011 Specialized Secteur, for longer more comfortable rides that I purchased used for $500. Bicycles themselves are definitely cool and the technology that has come along with them is incredible but I just love the action of cycling itself and thats what drives me. For me I dont desire nor require to have an expensive bike or kit. Just two wheels under me and the exhilaration of flying down the road. To each their own if course. Just get out there and fly. Thanks for reading this and thank you Dobbs for your video. Cheers.

[@rskng]

I don't get the rant. The push towards more expensive bikes is the same as in the car industry. All the car shows like to talk about and test high-end performance cars, and they are the dream of most people. The SL8 S-Works is basically a Ferrari. Not for everyone. Same with expensive clothing. There are very good bikes for 2-3k. Canyon Endurace starts from 1999€ (BTW, 2000USD in the early 2000's is 3500USD today, inflation). The "what is wrong with the cycling industry" videos are just sensationalism. Nothing in the cycling industry is different than any other industry (cars, clothing, tech, travel, etc.)

[@JohnBowl14690]

I don't get the rant either. This guy is talking about PRO equipment. Of course it's going to expensive! They are built for two types of people only. Pros and snobs. Either way, the prices are justified. Let's face it...half the reason why snobs buy expensive things is to impress others.

[@arnoldmuller1703]

Well I think it's about the development of the price distributions over time. Pro bikes were affordable like 15 or 20 years ago, now the prices more than doubbled, even inflation corrected ones.

[@rskng]

@@arnoldmuller1703 As technology advances, higher-tech equipment always gets more expensive compared to baseline equipment because you can just do more. and add more high-performance materials that just weren't available before.

[@stevedrake2031]

New sub. Really enjoyed your opinion on the nearly broken bike industry. Its like if you dont have a 5,000 dollar bike, you dont belong on the road.

[@davidnicholson6680]

I have no idea what you're complaining about. Specialized sells the Allez, Trek sells the Emonda ALR, Cannondale sells the CAAD. Giant sells the Contend. Etc. All are great bikes sold at reasonable prices. In fact I would argue that the $1,500 entry level road bike sold today is far better today than the same level $1,500 bike ever has been. Meanwhile, The Black Bibs, Pactimo, DHB, Decathlon and others sell well made bike clothing for good prices. These options didn't even exist decades ago, you had to pay for Giordano, Descente or Castelli from your LBS for the same price (adjusted for inflation) of the modern day $190 Rapha jersey. I know, I paid those prices out of my landscaping money decades ago. Sure, bike manufactures are selling top end bikes for ridiculous money... but that's because people buy them. People also buy $400 Assos and PNS bibs. This conspicuous consumption wasn't really a thing in the bike industry when I started racing in the late 80s, but it is a thing now. It's harmless and probably a good thing. 51 year old dentists buying Cervelo S5 is what funds the industry. Competition is also ramping up. D2C brands like Canyon, Van Rysel, Vitus (RIP?). YT, Polygon etc are selling cool bikes for great prices. Chinese brands like Elves, Winspace, Farsports and Yoeleo are producing excellent frames and wheels for outrageously good prices. I would argue it's never been a better time to buy bike stuff.

[@billydeewilliams8909]

It's obviously true the whole industry got greedy and are now paying for it (benefiting us, the consumers), but you're absolutely correct. Every brand offers high-quality, reasonably priced bikes, in addition to the lambo carbon machines. When I got into cycling, my local shop was (and is) a Trek. I pull up in a Tesla and tell them I need an upgrade from a 13-year-old hybrid bike I got for Christmas (and used to be my brother's in middle school). They sell me a $1,300 X-Caliber 8, which I still regret selling back to them as a trade-in (and right after I got a whole new frame on warranty; I was much fatter back then) for a $2,500 Checkpoint, which is my second favorite bike. They sold me an amazing Project One Rail for like $5,000, which IS my favorite bike by a huge margin. It was expensive, but I could afford it and it was totally worth it and, even more than that, exactly correct for the kind of riding I wanted to do. They sold my brother, who earns the same as I do, a $700 FX 3, which is the only bike he needs (I haven't been able to get him into MTB the way I wanted).

[@papalegba6796]

The used market is even better, seen some crazy bargains on Facebook. Met a guy last year picked up a custom built Reynolds 531 tourer from the 1990s, Shimano 105 kit, mint condition, £90. Beautiful bike, lovely paint job too, stunning.

[@BeaverTerror]

I stopped going to shops because the mechanics are so overworked and rushed that their quality of work is unacceptable. I make far, far more money per hour than the bike shop's labor charge, so I would love to offload my wasted time onto a shop. I would be saving a tremendous amount of money if I did that. But when the shop is so incompetent that I cannot trust it to do careful work, then the value of the shop is zero. Not just zero actually. Negative of zero. Now I do all work myself, including frame prep work on new builds. The tools were expensive but it is far easier to buy the tools once than to deal with incompetent shops.