Why the 270 Degree “Crossplane Twin” is Suddenly So Popular

[@MrQueLastima]

“But super twins pose a problem of their own. See, twins are lovable when they’re little, but grow ‘em up and they always turn out weird. And the same is true of engines.” Damn that's good.

[@gerryjamesedwards1227]

So is "ass-holding companies".

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Holding companies? You mean grubby handed banks?

[@gerryjamesedwards1227]

@@exothermal.sprocket yes, it's only a throw-away line during the ad bit where he mentions air-BnB.

[@NunoxFerreira]

😂

[@zeroninehundred]

As someone married to a twin, I endorse this statement on twins. Check back in a few weeks to see whether this endorsement holds if my wife finds this post. 😂

[@matthewpeterson3329]

Hey Ryan, Driving 4 Answers just uploaded a counter argument to your 285 degree statements. Very respectfully done, and I don't think I am alone in hoping to see a discussion between you guys. If for no other reason, just to get two smart dudes chatting.

[@ClaudeSac]

Thank you. Could not have said it better myself. Thank you.

[@DearMajesty]

This!

[@joshgts9675]

Yes! If you look at comments on that video, it's actually said multiple times that KTM chooses 285' because the 75 degree intervals sound very similar to their V twin 75' degree engines. Makes sense.

[@dirtygarageguy]

Hey Ryan, Driving 4 Answers just uploaded a video where he doesn't understand why OEMs made the 285 vs the 270... just saying

[@DearMajesty]

@@dirtygarageguy lol ignorance is bliss

[@btgmoto]

These videos are some of the best motorcycle consumer journalism available. And they just happen to be videos. I say that as a lifelong journo and rubbish youtuber. Respect to the whole team behind them.

[@charlesbarnett2724]

Very true.

[@panpantheman78]

agreed

[@Fairshotguy]

My brother and I modified a Yamaha XS650 about ten years ago. Changed it from the stock 360 deg configuration to a 277 deg by indexing the crank, cutting the cam in half and welding it back together with one side advanced to match the crank. Worked out to be a 277 deg firing order due to the odd number of splines on the crank; and while it's not a perfect balance it did reduce the engine vibration to the point that I could ride for hours without my arms going numb. The power delivery was smoother, and IMO it sounds much better than it did stock.

[@felipedourado5721]

If that bike still exists it would be great to see such machine and to listen its engine running. If it is possible please make a video about her and put it here on KZbin. Regards from Brazil.✌

[@chonkychookie6949]

I would hope you post a video

[@petermuller161]

There are videos of this crank phase mod out there. They do sound sick!

[@K_Nasty]

That sound like bullshit . I'd love you to prove me wrong tho 😂❤

[@avsystem3142]

@@K_Nasty Such engine mods as described have been done by Allen Millyard, they are possible.

[@joemuller2913]

You need to pay attention to Driving 4 Answers post on this. I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I am a structural one and I have no trouble following the basic physics. Respectfully, I think some corrections in your interpretations of 270 vs 285 is required.

[@1MrBryn]

Gotta be that guy and point out Yamaha had a 270 degree crank way back in the 90's with the TRX850. I've owned three of them over the years and they are just a delightful machine.

[@ernstverbeek1954]

And of course the TDM850 and 900.

[@grankvarsvik4153]

@@ernstverbeek1954 Yes, the TDM also was 270 exept the early ones :)

[@elsullo2]

I think that the TDM850 did too. Wonderful bike, and I almost bought it, but then I found out that the seat was held on by VELCRO patches!........................................elsullo

[@1MrBryn]

@@ernstverbeek1954 first TDM had the 360 degree crank motor from the road going Super Tenere. The TRX motor was a development of the Dakar race engine and AFAIK it was the first massed production road bike with said 270 crank.

[@guylr7390]

Ryan gets a partial pass on his Yamaha history error because here in North America Yamaha declined to sell us The TRX and the update ‘97 TDM 850. So many great models they kept from us.

[@anantkharade119]

I have never owned a motorcycle and I still find myself on his channel every time there is a upload

[@goldenageofdinosaurs7192]

I don’t currently own a motorcycle, but I’m definitely a fan of impeccably made videos & these folks are at the tippy-top of the game.

[@rutukedarbhagwat1746]

Me too

[@James-xw1rv]

It's only a matter of time, you'll join us sooner than later. 🙏😊

[@cheifreal]

That's how it starts. You shall soon be one of us. Mwaahahaha.

[@sameerkharade7750]

Heyyy, fellow Kharade😉

[@davidmallia628]

Brilliant how Ryan makes the effort to get the specific facts correct, and from first principles to boot. Insight that for the majority of us, would normally just fly over our heads.

[@shaundisch2020]

Still over my head, but I'll watch anything from Ryan Fortnine.

[@ritterkeks]

Having owned (and destroyed) one, I would argue the reason for Yamaha applying the cross plane crankshaft so liberally now was their experience with the TRX (and TDM) 850 already back in the 90s. Both had a 270 degree crankshaft and I have to say it was a really nice engine, even though plagued by the mass market carburetors, like you explained. With expensive aftermarket components it became much smoother on the throttle! Phenomenal video, Ryan and F9 crew!

[@jockmcthingiemibobb3014]

Great bikes. I never understood why Yamaha didn't throw the TDM900 motor into an upgraded TRX frame with USD forks etc

[@jockmcthingiemibobb3014]

Great bikes. I never understood why Yamaha didn't throw the TDM900 motor into an upgraded TRX frame with USD forks etc

[@jockmcthingiemibobb3014]

Great bikes. I never understood why Yamaha didn't throw the TDM900 motor into an upgraded TRX frame with USD forks etc

[@valefur72]

I think the TDM 850 had a 360° crankshaft. Yamaha with the TRX was trying to cope with the sound and the power delivery of the Ducati V2. Also the lattice frame was Ducati inspired.

[@pietbarendse]

@@valefur72 The first generation TDM (3VD), built from 1991 to 1996, had a 360 degree crankshaft. In 1996, Yamaha switched to a 270 degree crankshaft for the second generation TDM, the 4TX, using the same engine in the TRX with some minor differences. According to Yamaha this was for the reasons mentioned in the video, but most people think it also had something to do with the fact that it now produced a sound more like the Ducati engines it was trying to compete with... The TDM 900 also uses a 270 degree crankshaft.

[@PyroTechGamer]

I'm constantly amazed at the quality of video that FortNine puts out. I literally never froth over any other content creator but the work that goes into these videos, the comedy, the interesting topics.... it's something else. Well done.

[@cstarr3240]

Ian McCollum (of Forgotten Weapons) once pointed out that the history of firearms was not a story of firearms technology, but instead is a story of production technology. The same is true for most products, including motorcycles.

[@Ovenman940]

It's an important principle in history as a whole. Romans could have made steam power but didn't need to because they had slave labour - only once there's a world power that benefits from banning slavery in the northern hemisphere does the industrial revolution begin

[@FortNine]

Very well put! That's why racing is so important - it takes the question "what's the best we can do for $25 000?" and adds a couple zeroes. I imagine warfare pushes firearm technology along in a similar (and sadder) way. ~RF9

[@andrewweitzman4006]

​​@@FortNine More in the direction of "what can we make cheaper and quicker when we have to hit the industrial production redline?". It is why America sitting pretty with an unmolested industrial complex and resource base was able to arm all the infantry with Garands. While the Soviets who had the Germans at their throat decided to abandon widespread issue of their battle rifle midwar to shift to cheaper bolt actions and submachine guns.

[@jaimemetcher388]

Production and materials. History isn't made by cool inventions, it's made by someone coming up with a new polymer or alloy that's makes it possible to build the cool invention; and then someone else coming up with the production technology that makes it possible to build a million of them. Meanwhile it's the marketing guy who gets famous for being the "inventor", and the investors take the profits as their reward for having money in the first place.

[@zachcd390119]

@@andrewweitzman4006somebody watched the recent battle rifle video

[@jeffpiatt3879]

This channel is what Cycle Magazine would be today, if it were still around. Enjoyable writing and content that you look forward to with each issue.

[@tzrider....7586]

I was just thinking that Ryan is the next Kevin Cameron, ..with humour!

[@Skidderoperator]

Cant not subscribe.

[@patw9175]

That last run of magazines was so good too. Shame they couldn't manage to transition that into video content but you know what, that shit ain't cheap to make and F9 isn't a youtube business, it's a retail business with a youtube channel.

[@jeffpiatt3879]

@@patw9175 You are so right about the last run! I remember the final copy was a sport bike comparison, where a bunch of different riders took some scenic, hilly route and rode different bikes and all weighed in. I remember them talking about the dry clutch on the Ducati "chattering" on the hot day that they road.

[@markmark2080]

Yes, you are correct, it was sad when they stopped after having been a subscriber for some three decades...

[@LetatDuPont]

Ryan makes me feel like my engineering degree is actually worth something

[@mrdesmit6038]

As a mechanical engineering student, that hurt more than i'd like to admit

[@Dave-sw2dm]

When mathematical possibility hits the wall of reality.

[@nmarshall8995]

Do a physics degree like a grown up

[@BrickcoProductions]

i know, but he studied art lol

[@WaechterDerNacht]

Get used to changing tolerances and filing change notifications already while studying... I once thought aswell that one might end up in an interesting job after this. ^^

[@dougvaneeuwen7946]

I love the mix of physics and history in all of these videos. Keep up the great work.

[@TorquilBletchleySmythe]

I repinned the crank on my 1977 Ducati Parallel twin DM 500S to 78' back in 1992. It was a crap engine to start with and i had spent way too much on it, being a highly tuned and modified ex race bike. After much fettling with points cam and valve timing to get it to fire and run, the improvement was insane. A heavy lump of an engine was finally producing respectable horsepower. The thinking behind the mod was using the two pistons as one, albiet with a very long ignition stroke. One fired, and then the next just after the first had passed 78' and still completing fuel burn. The riding sensation was like a gallop, and with a little more fine tuning of carbutrttor and intake manifold length, she was like a big single with a double tap thump and gobs of torque. The DM 500 had a balancer originally, which came in handy, but it was still "unique" to ride on long runs.

[@Dragonborne223]

>reads title >i have no idea what this means >reads channel name >go on then

[@dirtcopdualsport]

Same

[@k4muk3nu]

>reads title >i have no idea what this means >reads channel name >go on then >watches video >understands what the title means >huh, neat >likes yet another FortNine video 👍

[@AK-in3qm]

Us bro Us

[@EricT01]

I'm just here for Motorcycle Quentin Tarantino.

[@pedroclaro7822]

Yeap yepa

[@AshleyPomeroy]

06:56 - don't underestimate the power of sheds. The entire British defence industry was created in a shed. The Sten gun? A shed. The Avro Vulcan? A big shed. A big shed that was designed in a smaller shed.

[@calvinnyala9580]

Same with tech companies. Google? In a $300,000 home garage

[@riesvanwijngaarden3417]

Don't forget the L96A1!

[@mfbfreak]

Alan Millyard. Nuff said.

[@steveh6373]

The jet engine

[@waynebrissette9459]

Add ACORN/ARM to that list, built in a UK barn.

[@randomOAS7]

Every time I think there couldn't be another esoteric motorcycle topic I probably don't even need to have explained to me, Ryan brings about a science/math heavy explanation I didn't even know I was going to love until I was a third of the way in. Great video.

[@D_Turn]

My exact sentiments! I only clicked on it, not because I thought the topic would be of interest, but because I have never clicked on one of his videos (even accidentally) and not watched the entire length, thoroughly enjoying all of it. This one did not disappoint either! 😏🙂 And as a bonus, I learned something interesting that I didn’t even know was something I wanted to know about! 🤓

[@michaelmacwilliam3370]

As both a KTM twin owner and a father of twins, I loved everything about this video. Cracking watch, thanks as ever.

[@davebrown3957]

Once again I find myself enthralled in another of Ryans’ science videos that help to explain all things motorcycle. I own a T7 and love the bike…in fact bought it because of your video on this very bike and its engine and frame geometry. Always look forward to your videos…keep up the great work!!

[@markr641]

I was wondering when KTM were going to be mentioned as my 890 is much smoother than I expected. Thanks for the education as always

[@RedRupert64]

It's smooth because of the balancer shafts.

[@pgkr67]

@@RedRupert64 its more about the 20% increase in mass, compared to the 790. They both have balancing shafts..

[@RedRupert64]

@@pgkr67 Both the 790 and the 890 are smooth, regardless of the weight of their crankshafts. It's the balancer shafts that cause both of them to be smooth.

[@youtubeaccount5153]

My Super Duke is an absolute dream to ride.

[@Win7ermu7e]

The line about how they are so willing to spend money kinda goes out the window when you know that all their bikes are built in China.

[@raphiseth6942]

I love to see these videos that show the influence of regulations, engineering, cost, and consumer wishes.

[@hailwood900]

Ryan does an amazing job explaining the real world of design engineering. I spent my career in that world, and Ryan gives the closest to correct layman's explanations that I've seen. There are still a lot of factors he's not discussing; patents for one, the PV diagram for another, but he's doing great.

[@FortNine]

Oh good! I have a whole video on how California is ruining motorcycles coming up. ~RF9

[@DVDPlus]

@@FortNine Even more the EURO regulations?

[@timberinternational2377]

@@FortNine oh goody, just what I wanted to hear.

[@frederickjeremy]

@@FortNinejust my .02 but we could just replace motorcycles with everything in that sentence and it would be true in my book.

[@vutunglam3934]

wake up babe, Fortnine just dropped a new video!!

[@dirtcopdualsport]

I’m awake I’m awake!

[@THX5000]

You talk to your waifu body pillow too, huh?

[@vutunglam3934]

@@THX5000 what if I am? envious?

[@panloon7776]

Thanks babe

[@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne]

"Not tonight babe, I'm watching FortNine"

[@coryholliday7570]

Very interesting and informative as usual. I can’t help but point out that Triumph twins started offering 270 degree cranks in the mid 2000’s in the Speedmaster and Scrambler models.

[@RedRupert64]

Yes, and Yamaha before that. Honda were relatively late to the game. Yamaha are the most innovative of the Jap manufacturers, and I love them for that.

[@cmptuomp3]

Yamaha had the TDM 850 MK2 (1996) and TDM 900 since 2001. Maybe you didn't get them in NA but the TDMs are super popular in Europe. Great bikes. Both 270 parallel twins.

[@fabienlemasson6146]

I was searching for such a comment, thank you for bringing it up. Also the TRX850 (same engine), not the best, lightest or fastest, but very likeable bike.

[@Angry-Lynx]

Yes I had tdm850. Can't say bad thing about it, it's good in every aspect, just not amazing at anything. Reliable Workhorse kinda bike without any character or emotion which isn't bad thing necessarily but for many people it'll be a deal-breaker. I had both sides of that equation bikes and appreciate both worlds, wild ktms and reliable Japanese

[@LS-uv9gg]

We got them in Canada. Ryan might be too young. I loved the sound of my 360* Twin Honda, and despised all the other 180* twins sound (still do, lol) I always loved "proper" Sport V-2's and V-4's for their sound, and perked right up at my first hearing of a TDM 850 in person. I filed away the memory that 270* sounded awesome. Now, I love the sound of my 270* first gen 2012 NC700XA. When first finding out about it's architecture, I immediately bought one.

[@rensgreuter8152]

@@fabienlemasson6146 Agree !!

[@robertandmariajames8190]

About to say, what about the TRX850? Yamaha brought out 270° in the mid ‘90s

[@Gofr5]

Pretty cool video. Never knew about the 75/285 degree bit. Yet another reason for me to love KTM, not that I needed anymore reasons to. However I am on their proper v twin, but nice to know their parallel twins are proper also.

[@E-087]

Had a duel with a F850 GS some time ago. I destroyed that pal with my 890 ADV R. In paper differences are minimal, IRL there's a big performance gap in favor of KTM

[@CadaverCo]

I was thinking the same exact thing. I love my superduke to death 😍

[@normangraber1047]

Best channel on YT. Always. come away knowing a bit more than I did before watching. Still riding after 64 years on two wheels.

[@thepaperboy9009]

Voted best segue's to sponsor, with out even feeling or noticing it. 👍

[@youtubeaccount5153]

I never noticed a sponsor. Who?

[@jj.1412]

..and then being disappointed that Fortnine is shilling for a company that cannot operate in the same country in which it exists ( I reaaallly wish we could rent out our Bikes in Canada. *cries* )

[@AlanWalls-nu2ke]

I had a 96 TRX 850, the only bike i regret selling- 270 crank sounded amazing slowing down or speeding up and fun all through the rev range...Yamaha is not afraid to try something different and i love them for it!

[@alanpennykid133]

It was not a Holden based engine in the Repco Brabham V8 that Phil Irving designed in the 60s. The F1 championship winning engine he designed was based on a Buick alloy 215 V8 block, the same engine that Rover bought the rights to and then built the Rover V8 which then got built forever. For those that didn't know Irving was Australian which led to his involvement with Repco to develop the engine.

[@r-for-rabbit]

Very very close! The Repco V8 was in fact not based on a Buick 215, but an Oldsmobile F85 (which according to one site I read he purchased for 11 pounds to start testing on). The Buick version had 5 head studs per cylinder, but the F85 had been developed for turbocharging, so it had 6 head studs per cylinder and Brabham and his team thought it would be more appropriate for competition. As both of the engines were developed at the same time in GM and it's only a little machining to the same basic block, it's only a small difference. But now you know. You are dead right about the fact that Holden had nothing whatsoever to do with the Repco F1 engine though. Phil had a long association with Holden later, building race V8s for the touring cars, but it was well afterward. As an Australian motorcyclist who owns a Rover V8 powered car, this slip up made me question just how exact all the research at F9 is... but I guess it's just one wrong word in a long (and quite entertaining) video.

[@dragoclarke9497]

Actually it was a slightly modified MZ TS250.......or was it the CZ?

[@amirbechor3768]

a year ago I bought myself a KTM smt 990, it was sitting in someone's back yard for 3 years, so I got it for so cheap, I fixed it up and mended it but when browsing through the workshop manual I found out about their 75° offset V twin, and was baffled. Why would they do it? what is this odd offset supposed to achieve? I remember scrolling google for hours trying to find an answer, but nothing. Now after a year of owning it, I finally get it, Thanks Ryan!!

[@BartoszBanachewicz]

I'm not sure if the math is the same on V-twins; after all, the piston's mass moves at an angle, and i think the 90deg Vs are the perfectly balanced ones.

[@amirbechor3768]

@@BartoszBanachewicz Correct, but you are referring to primary balance, and the video discussed, between other topics, secondary balance.

[@Blockbuster2033]

​@@amirbechor3768Yes, but on a V motor the forces of the secondary imbalance are not pointing in the same direction. On a V motor the reason to go with a narrower angle is because of packaging and weight centralisation reasons. Aprilia had a 60° V angle on their Rotax motors in the RSV Mille. KTM has the 75°. Both are imperfect in terms of primary and secondary imbalances, but are much smaller than a 90° motor

[@amirbechor3768]

@@Blockbuster2033 If we use trigonometry to examine what you said, we can divide the forces of the V twin engine to y axis and x axis, the force on the Y axis of cylinder 1 will be the Sin of 52.5° times the length of the stroke, and the Sin of 52.5° + 75° time the length of the stroke for cylinder 2, same goes on for X axis only with Cosin function. we can assume that the forces on the Y axis of each of the piston on a 75 or 60, or 90 degree V twin engine are equal. or am I missing something?

[@RedRupert64]

They chose the 75° V-twin for packaging reasons only. There's a balancer shaft to take care if the vibration.

[@sandyshelton5]

Thank you for making motorcycle engineering simple to understand

[@randombuilds8336]

Yamaha experimented with a 270* xs650 for flat track in the 70s. Guess there wasn't enough advantage to keep going. Lots of people have made a 277* XS650 using stock crank parts for a long time too.

[@rodintoulouse3054]

Just saw a video from “Driving for answers” doing a serious analysis of the claims of this one and without being and engineer, I think he got it right and that some of the claims here are wrong.

[@tom-rz4zg]

The key take away from d4as response is that both 285 and 270 have their advantages and disadvantages. Eg 270 may have better primary and secondary balance, but the rocking couple forces would need attention to be as smooth which would require a larger rotating mass compared to balancing the primary/secondary vibrations of the 285, which affects peak rpm, harmonics and curve. Different strokes for different blokes just depends on how deep ya wanna reach in ya pockets for F all difference noticed by the consumer.

[@m.b.82]

You're ignoring the Yamaha TRX850. I believe it was the first 270 twin on the market @ 1997 They use a balance shaft. Great bike. I have one.

[@alanbrown5593]

Imagine how cold and boring life would be without a Fortnine video. We thank you most kindly.

[@onemanmob6756]

Yeah - particularly here in Australia

[@ortnerendre4197]

1995 Yamaha TDM 850 and TRX 850 was maybe the first? Great bikes and engine. I have TDM 900. The video is fantastic, I knew a lot of things, but at the end I didn't know the new information about 285 degrees at all :) Thank you very much!

[@starseeddeluxe]

I don't think North America got any 270 degree cranks in anything, until very recently. We didn't get the TDM or TRX bikes (I have never even heard of that until reading these comments). I recall that the only twins they made in the 2000's, were the Kawasaki W650, which eventually became a W800, and the Triumph Bonneville 650. There weren't any other parallel twin bikes for sale. They basically forced Americans to have sportbikes, and Harley bikes. I may be forgetting a model, but if there was another parallel twin, it certainly wasn't well known.

[@starseeddeluxe]

It drives me crazy because the Kawasaki KLR650 should have been converted into a KLR600 twin, back in 1989. They made the Kawasaki EX500 Ninja twin in America, and that had a proper liquid cooling. So they already had the engine, all they had to do was put the EX500 engine into the KLR650 chassis, and then people would have a legitimate cross country bike. Kawasaki seriously missed the mark by not making that bike. I met a neighbor some years ago. He had put a CB650 4 cylinder engine into his XL650 Honda enduro chassis. It looked factory, the frame was mostly completely stock, it just had a couple extra supports, and he said it rode beautifully. It's just not clear why they forced American people to only have big singles.

[@jasondunn8894]

Interesting as always gentleman. As an Aussie my eas pricked up at the reference to Holden engines. I love that you do your homework👍

[@FortNine]

Phil Irving is a credit to your country! British motorcycle engineering may have advanced significantly quicker if he was never tempted to return home and switch to cars. I bring him up whenever Kiwis get too smug about John Britten. ~RF9

[@piltrid1]

@@FortNine LoL, you'll be bestowed an Honorary Australian Citizenship for that last sentence!

[@Sdblahm67]

Pendantic point - it wasn't a Holden engine Phil Irving tweaked for the Repco Brabham FI car - it was based on the Oldsmobile version of the Buick/Rover 215 V8, never used in any Holdens. An automotive colleague of mine (we were Melbourne based) attended a Phil Irving lecture in the late 1980s, said he was absolutely brilliant. Went into depth about the coming challenges of emission standards. Also tore apart the "Sarich" Engine which was Big News in Australia at the time "It was a bad idea in 1923 and it's a bad idea now"

[@eIicit]

So grateful Ryan makes these videos. The man is an artist.

[@dolphinride5157]

Ryan's one of, if not the best motorcycle vloggers out there. I always look forward to his videos! My next motorcycle will have a crossplane: Suzuki GSX-8R; hopefully, sometime later this year :)

[@allenhuling598]

A nicely presented education on motorcycle engine design wrapped in humor....well done, team!!🤘

[@gregorymccoy6797]

Thanks for not dumbing this down too much. I really appreciate engineering topics like this done by a competent video crew and writer.

[@johnmccloskey8524]

Yamaha built the 270 degree TRX 850 and TDM 900 from the mid 1990s onwards. Great bikes and my favourite twins 👯‍♂️

[@aumkar2]

360 twins, one of the greatest bike configuration ever made. A Phenomenal video as always!

[@vitorferreira8899]

The 270° twin just works! Love my MT07!

[@THX5000]

Can't beat the sound for the price of those yamahas.

[@SteevyTable]

Thanks Todd Howard.

[@Drakkheart]

That feel when your bike is mentioned in an F9 video! 🥰

[@davidvitan3590]

It's a great engine. One of teh best ever made

[@RacingRalphEVO]

@THX5000 You can get an actual 90* V2 cheaper - the suzuki SV650 ;)

[@adam346]

these purely informational videos are some of my favorite! Keep em' coming! Plus I love telling people I have a "720 degree single".

[@Ethan2xm85]

360 single for me 😂

[@dirtcopdualsport]

I love these videos!!!!! Questions I never thought to ask answered impeccably by Ryan F9!!!!

[@lewdog9647]

Yamaha had the 270 degree crank in the 1996 TDM 850. It is a lovely bike but it was released in the era of super bikes and was considered as boring in comparison to the other bikes on the market.

[@midenking9651]

Id really love to see a video on Single Cylinder history and pros and cons. From modern china engines to Rotax to original designs in bikes.

[@maximusoakley]

That crinkle sound at 1:56 had me searching for lose speaker cables.

[@marcstlaurent3719]

Another great vid Ryan and Peeps . Another reason for the classic 60’s and 70’s 360 twin ala Norton/BSA/Triumph was that Lucas Electrics (The Prince of Darkness) could only muster a spark every 360 degrees of crank rotation .

[@wibblywobblyidiotvision]

And even then, only if it could be bothered.

[@matthewallen1894]

Poor Yamaha, having their efforts with the TRX/TDM totally overlooked

[@mugrun]

The amount of research you put forth in your content is always second to none. I don’t even ride, but I am subscribed just for the sheer entertainment and educational value.

[@relph3]

I own an F800r and a Nuda 900r, both with essentially the same twin pot engine design from Rotax. However the the F800 uses the 180 deg. crank and the Nuda900 uses a 315 deg crank. The 315 deg Nuda900 has a lot less buzzy vibrations at cruising speeds but overall sounds and feels less refined than the F800 in a good way.

[@Daschickenify]

Honda did a 270 parallel twin earlier than the Africa twin, the NC700 in 2012 was also one.

[@Sickmond910]

I was going to post this but see you did first! Someone else has some NC love

[@charleetho]

The Triumph scrambler had a 270 crank back in 2006

[@ardijanuar2036]

KTM always did an expectional engineering, their motogp engine is actually 86 degree V4 rather than 90 because they foundnout that's the smallest angle of an V4 with perfect balance like 90 degree one. Making their engine just a little bit tighter for handling and packaging advantage.

[@R15YZF]

They changed to 90 like everyone else

[@ThaBootyBandit]

And its still slower than the duc

[@thatkarnotaurus8123]

Euro teen here. I don't own a motorcycle personally but dream of owning one someday. I could always get a 125 in the near future but really do not have the financials for both it and living in the future. Still, always watch your content whenever it's uploaded. Quality is unmatched!

[@simosmaximos3642]

I am riding an 890R its an fantastic Engine with no matter how many times you sit on it it always brings a smile to my face. Poweroutput and Accelleration is always a surprise

[@martycech5844]

Brilliantly written, produced, narrated & filmed video! Bravo…🥇🏆😎

[@FOKSOFF]

A video of the Aprilia SXV 450 v twin 4 stroke 2008 and its history and why they stopped making them would be interesting on your channel. Those bikes were ahead of their time I believe.

[@bobbennett2075]

I had the RXV and it was the scariest bike I have ever owned. Also one of the prettiest.

[@jacquescrusan9500]

I took some time a few years ago to look into the origin of KTM's LC8 V-twin (going over Road and Track/Motorcycle magazines articles, along with releases from KTM themselves), and in that search I found that KTM wanted to make a V twin that had a smaller 3 dimensional footprint than a typical 90-degree V twin from the likes of Ducati and later Suzuki with their SV lineup. Originally the LC8 was slated to be a 72 degree V-twin in its design stage, but was later changed to 75 degrees. I always wondered what the reasoning for that change was. Now I know.

[@valefur72]

The first modern bike with the 270° crankshaft, was the YAMAHA TRX 850. That bike had the TDM engine, that originally had the 360° crankshaft. They were trying to copy the Ducati V2 sound and power delivery.

[@MrBradfordchild]

I’ll have to go and look, but I’m sure it was 72degree crank, a fifth of a circle. Also, the TDM900 was the first of the 90dgree

[@bikerbobcat]

Thank you for this very clear explainer on environmental standards and engine design. I'm just a simple lil guy but you really put things in very clear terms I can completely understand. Always enjoy your work.

[@lukereilly4963]

I think this guy is my favourite motorcycle KZbinr. No brashness. No hotheaded hot takes. No drama. Just cool facts, cool topics and good information presented in a calm manner but not lethargic in the least. Good show.

[@iordeebeat]

Good video, yet surprisingly you did not mention the first stock motorcycle incorporating already in 1996 the 270° crankshaft configuration : the Yamaha "Trixie" TRX 850 The modem Africa Twin is a good 270° example, but 20 years later.

[@erat91]

Be interesting to know where the Nudas 315* parallel twin falls into this equation and why.

[@zzzak666]

The Yamaha TRX850 is a sports motorcycle with a 10-valve DOHC 849 cc 270° parallel-twin engine. First released in Japan in 1995.

[@flechette3782]

As an engineer I really enjoy Ryan's engine videos. I love hearing about the rationale they used in the design.

[@MixedGrid]

As an engineer did you find any problem with his core statements about the 270 vs 285? Because there may be some glaring improper statements he made. Still waiting for him to respond to those. Since usually his content is so spot on.

[@lindafoxwood78]

I rode a Harley for 11 years and Hondas for 20 years prior to that and one Yamaha for a year in 1987. I like your video so much. I love motorcycles.

[@nealmichal6978]

Did you forget the 1991 Yamaha TDM 850? It had a 270 crank as well. It was a marvelous bike down under.

[@valefur72]

It was 360°. The TRX had the 270° 😉

[@grigoriszkal3610]

Is there someone who can explain the Husqvarna Nuda 900's 315° crankshaft configuration? I fell in love with it's sound.

[@karihardarson1234]

I so look forward to your excellent videos! You are in a league of your own.

[@rmwaq]

Ryan creates Content like a Chef preparing ingredients to cook a delicious feast. Beautiful storytelling!!

[@mammocas]

I own a KTM 890 Duke R and didn't know it had a 285 degree engine instead of a 270. That makes me happy as it feels that little bit more special :)

[@ehiggins7476]

This shows you that on paper there are significant differences in design but if you didn’t know and rode a 270 degree and your 285 back to back you wouldn’t notice a difference.

[@ehiggins7476]

I also love KTM. Own a Husqvarna Svartpilen 701 and want a Duke 890 R

[@davidvitan3590]

That's gonna come in handy when it inevitably develops issues lol

[@mammocas]

@@davidvitan3590 Hopefully not. 4 years and 10k miles and no issues so far.

[@davidvitan3590]

@@mammocas Fingers crossed lol

[@tzrider....7586]

The exact crossplane angle will change with the stroke to rod length ratio. Great video nonetheless!

[@ryaandnice]

Ah! Good point!

[@ryaandnice]

Actually - no I wonder - what is the magic stroke to rod length ratio that perfectly hits 270 as max velocity?? Maybe someone was smart enough to tweak that into the design, and have it perfect and still have the cheaper manufacture of the right angle crank... Maybe the Royal Enfield 650?

[@tzrider....7586]

@@ryaandnice To approach 270, one would need a rod of infinite length and a very short stroke.....

[@aaykay4060]

@@tzrider....7586that’s what she said!

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Angle has to do with the relative crank pin relationships, not the the rod. Unless your wording is poor and you're talking about something slightly different.

[@paulfreespirit]

The Yamaha TXR850 and 850/900 TDM in the 1980's/ 90's 270 degrees cranks!

[@Knockelhead]

3vd is 360 850 gen2 is 270

[@paulfreespirit]

@@Knockelhead I had a TDM900, it was definitely was a 270 degree crank, great bike!

[@Knockelhead]

@@paulfreespirit yeah I had a 900 to. Had it for 4 years 30k km

[@mikkelglarsen6809]

I own a Husqvarna Nuda 900R with a 315 degree crank. As far as I know it’s the only bike with that crankshaft design.

[@scottburghart9278]

That was excellent and I loved seeing the cranks being forged......never seen that done. Very cool, thanks!

[@IRLtrolls]

If you want to get technical with the years. Yamaha did the 270° in 2010 with the Super Tenere 1200. Six years before the Africa twin

[@LeoinFrance]

So the new inline twin dukes are all 285 degrees instead of 270? Interesting to know.

[@noeserd]

Yep since the 790 they are 285, wish they were more reliabl though

[@whatsgoingon71]

​@@noeserdMine has never let me down since the dealer took care of the leaky factory engine seals during the run in service. I think that's par for the course in most new motorcycles. BMW has just announced that they stopped delivery of the new GS because the starter relay might catch on fire. 😂

[@nyomandimas12]

all of their parallel twins are 285°. not only duke but also adventure (and smt for that matter)

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Not sure they used this principle due to the math, or if they used this principle due to their 75° V-Twin engines which possess the same firing interval (hence the same sound).

[@mybigfatfrog7975]

@@exothermal.sprocket pretty sure its the math.

[@mojothejester9889]

I like the Husqvarna Nuda 900R with 315 degree firing, sounds lovely

[@richardsprings1414]

I love the way my first generation Africa twin engine works it's a great bike and I appreciate all of your hard work once again you outdid yourself

[@zubinel9540]

HANG ON! Can we please acknowledge the Yamaha 270 Twins of the 90's... The brilliant engine in the TRX 850 and TDM 900. They still feel smoother and sound better than most 270 twins today!

[@nicholaschriss1706]

Thanks Driving for Answers for clearing this up.

[@therandomchannel02]

Damn! Who writes your scripts?

[@kanishka.b8550]

I just watched a video from “driving for answers” explaining why some facts mentioned here are wrong and I think many should wagch that too.. it explains on detail.! Thanks…

[@rodrigoafonso1995]

How about the sound? In my opinion the best sounding 2cil are v twins or 270° parallel, much superior to 285, 360 or 180.

[@JP6961]

I had a Yamaha TDM 900. The engine strated life as an XTZ750 duel purpose bike. Before duel purpose. Then it became a TDM 850, and TRX850 up grade road bike with carbs. But then 2000 they upped the anti, and fuel injection became the norm. All of the engines were 270 deg. cranks. Then Yamaha discontinued the TDM, the TRX was gone before it was a 900. But they kept the engine as a 1200 Tenere, adventure bike. I loved the engine. It sounded like a Ducati, and revved like a 4 cylinder. It was smooth and lively.

[@iamM4SK]

as a proud xsr700 owner i can tell you nothing feels more like a c8 corvette in bike form than a growling CP2 with a akra exhaust on it. chefs kiss*

[@RichardASK]

Have you tried an MT10?

[@hiddendragon415]

@@RichardASK No but my Mt09 is a blast.

[@F3udF1st]

Can't wait for D4A to take this on.

[@vicioussalta]

He already did! Great response, but I don't think it will be acknowledged by fortnine. Just like when the lean in or out in a corner video came out. Fortnine should collab with people like D4A in these topics.

[@F3udF1st]

@@vicioussalta He hadn't when I posted my comment. Agreed, Ryan should collab with D4A and Andrey Bodrov from Moto Control.

[@erizfolkz31]

I saw his video first. 😅

[@jlrutube1312]

But the question is,,,, are the 270 degree cranks almost as good as the 285 ones or is it true that if you don't have exactly 285 degrees then there is no benefit whatsoever to having a 270 over the 180 with regards to vibration? I realize the 270 sounds better than the 180 but is it actually smoother? If the 270 is almost as good as the 285 then does the small difference matter enough to be noticed?

[@craighoffman6876]

People like to bag on P-twins, but the 270 cranks are pretty smooth in practice when balance shafts are used. I have a Super Tenere and it barely vibrates with the cruise set at 80, certainly not enough to be an issue. With a Yosh can on it, at high speed cruise the deep and meaty sound reminds me of my old V8 powered lake boat 😆

[@stomp1Krr]

fascinating, engrossing, entertaining and educational once again! thanks, Ryan, and as always, looking forward to the next one already...

[@betterseatsinc2010]

Thank you for another awesome high quality video! It really brightens up my sad dark evenings.

[@Drunken_Hamster]

The 285 answer was exactly what I came here for. Goated. My favorite twins are 285s and 300s, in the V-twin world these are 75 degrees and 60 degrees. The former for sporty bikes, the latter for cruisers/muscle bikes. And that whole "half stroke is actually 75 degrees" thing is part of the reason why an even-firing V10 is such a magically perfect engine.

[@d.d.7287]

0:13 Kawasaki must have missed the meeting where everyone decided to go with 270 degree twins. They were too busy working to give the people what they really wanted..... A fuel injected thumper in the KLR

[@jimtitt3571]

As noted elsewhere Yamaha TDM's have been 270° for a long time, my 900 is and the 850 was as well.

[@robertchapman6795]

Ryan F9. I never thought I’d call you out! In the late 80’s/early 90’s, an Australian magazine called Streetbike Magazine, ran an article on a homemade bike named Spiteful (the original name for the Spitfire aircraft)270* Triumph twin in an RGV250 chassis. “What a cool idea”, I thought. A “V-Twin” with one head and one/one set of camshaft/s. If only a manufacturer did this, they’d save money/make a larger margin. In 1995, Yamaha released the TRX850. A parts bin special of suspension, brakes and ancillaries, strapped to a bespoke engine and frame combo. A bike which was far greater than the sum of it’s parts. Many litre bikes were embarrassed at ride days with a good rider on a TRX. And THAT sound!!! Best sounding production bike when graced with an aftermarket muffler such as the art made by Staintune in Australia! 270* should never be spoken of , without homage to the Yamaha TRX850. The first production 270* twin! 🏍💨🤤 [edit] I must still thank you for your ability to share quality technical information and still be entertaining and fun!

[@PetrHosek]

As a proud TRX850 owner I thank you for this comment and fully endorse its content.

[@stevenhanaway920]

And this is why trigonometry, geometry, and mathematics in general is important in everyday life, even when it comes to motorcycling! Thanks for including the breakdown of why a 285 degree cross-plane crank is geometrically superior to a 270 degree cross-plane crank!