Four Automotive Myths That Just Aren't True

[@James-gf9jl]

I had a '89 Alfa 164 and remember being lectured by a Ford Sierra owner about Alfas being rust buckets. After two years he had rust blisters around his door locks and wheel arches. The Alfa was perfect.

[@novi0974]

Alfa 164 had 6 years rust warranty .. what a brilliant car ..

[@Nick-Emery]

164 was such a mega car, my mate had one late 90’s

[@jemimallah2591]

and then everyone clapped? alfas WERE rust buckets. they just largely fixed the problem (partly caused by poor quality russian steel but that was from being the only or even the main cause) by the time the 164 came around. the 164 was possibly helped by its design being assisted by saab, who possibly told the italians that maybe its not such a great idea to design the car so it collects as much rainwater as possible

[@module79l28]

@@jemimallah2591 - Did you even watch the video? Alfa Romeo never used soviet steel.

[@MaximilianvonPinneberg]

Parents had an Alfa Sud, replaced it with a Renault 16 and then replaced that with a new Sierra. The Sierra was rotten in 3 years.

[@CoastHobbit9340]

More popular automotive myths exploded by a pedantic petrolhead: 1. Vanden Plas is widely believed to rhyme with bar, although it is a Dutch surname and so it rhymes with mass. (If it were French, as some people believe, it would have a short "a" sound as in cat.) Hyundai is already a lost cause. 2. Audi rhymes with howdy. Anyone pronouncing Audi to rhyme with Lordy should be given a thousand lines. 3. Alpha Romeo, along with Stanstead Airport, fuel gage, radiator grill, hand break and (UK) driving license are not alternative spellings - they're simply wrong. 😆

[@Equiluxe1]

Many cars of the 60'&70's were rust traps, one reason was something called production steel, sheet steel that was rolled from stacks of steel and lead like some form of puff pastry. The idea was it made it easier to get deep drawings using softer steel dies or in some cases even concrete dies. This steel was not only highly hydroscopic but was also stored outside in the weather in many cases,I have personally seen it outside in the rain. The water that caused the rust was already trapped inside the car panels when it left the production line.

[@sevensixtysteve8662]

Yes it annoys me (probably because I own an Italian car from 80s) that the myth is perpetuated that all Italian cars are rust buckets - as if nothing produced by BL or Ford ever suffered from this problem. Truth is, mass produced cars from most manufacturers of this period rusted in a much shorter time frame compared to new cars we buy today. A lot of it was to do with poor manufacturing processes as you describe - my grandfathers SD1 was absolutely the worst car I have ever seen for corrosion and my grandmothers MG Maestro was delivered new with rust on the cills. In contrast, my uncles Lancia never showed any signs of corrosion in his ownership. My Lancia is 40 years old and thanks to a decent covering of Waxoyl, is rust free and still looking great. Standards and consumer expectations were much lower in the 60s and 70s and manufacturers just didn't build cars to a standard to last. Not even companies like Volkswagen were immune, with plenty of rotting Polos and Golfs evident. Volvo (due to their climate) had to build their cars with a different set of priorities and so majored on mechanical simplicity combined with under body protection. This contributed to increased reliability at low temps and a decent lifespan from the structure. The benefit Volvo noticed in countries with less extreme winters, was a significantly longer lasting car than a lot of contemporary manufacturers could achieve. The difference was so noticeable, Volvo ran a marketing campaign based on this point. Maybe this kickstarted the increase in quality in other manufacturers, who knows.

[@johnkeepin7527]

@@sevensixtysteve8662 It’s certainly true that manufacturing quality has improved over the years. In the past, there was an busy aftermarket for products like the “Waxoyl” that you mentioned. Some are still trading, like Ziebart, if you search for it, but probably not so popular now. I can remember when my old man had a job done on one of his cars that involved replacing part of the car’s flooring with new sheet steel, by cutting out a chunk and welding in new. That was a Riley 4/68, when it was about 8 years old.

[@southerneruk]

RR stood many of its components outside for a year to make it rust, this showed any bad metal parts, while the good metal would only have surface rust, which after being brush down make for the best paint key, there are still loads of heavy industry that still leave metal parts outside for it to rust

[@Equiluxe1]

@@southerneruk Castings are often left outside for months or a year or two so that internal stresses have a chance to work themselves out so that the chances of the castings warping are reduced when machined, leaving sheet metal out to rust is not a good idea as that certainly won't tell you what is good or bad about it all that happens is more rust forms where there is less surface oil.

[@garethifan1034]

Which would explain why, (Among other reasons) our MK 5 Cortina needed underfloor welding for its first Mot test at 3 years old. I'm glad those days are gone.

[@loveisall5520]

As a Texan I enjoy your channel because I get to see a world of cars that we aren't allowed to own. Thanks so much from a fellow car loving guy!

[@mcmaddie]

Aren't allowed to own? I thought it is/was 'land of the freedom'?!? :o

[@Jehty_]

Why aren't you allowed to own them?

[@worldcomicsreview354]

@@Jehty_ While the USA might give out Uzis in happy meals, they are insanely strict when it comes to car safety regulations. Other countries have caught up to US car safety requirements, but far more slowly (see the ugly rubber bumpers on latter-day MGBs). Of course, once Brexit is truly done, Britain will have both classic Minis and MG Midgets back in production (with electric options, of course - imagine a Midget with Tesla acceleration), AND a Lee-Enfield on the working-class living room wall.

[@Jehty_]

@@worldcomicsreview354 the cars mentioned in this video are oldtimers. I don't think that modern safety rules apply to them...

[@andreww2098]

@@worldcomicsreview354 It's got nothing to do with safety standards, US safety standards aren't any safer than the rest of the western world,it's a trade dispute caused by Mercedes US, who objected to people buying Mercedes in other countries and importing them for a lot less than the massive markup of US dealers! cars can only be imported into the US after they are 25 years old where they would by their very nature be a lot less safe than a new car built anywhere! you can also add the chicken tax to the problem where light trucks and vans are taxed at 25% on import, though there are ways around that

[@YM-rm7mh]

A myth I heard years ago concerned the Russian 1st series Zaz 965. This car had an engine Even Less Powerful than the Infamous Trabant 601! The myth was that the Zaz engine had Not been designed as a Car Engine, but had Started life as the Starter Motor of the Largest Russian Tank of the period!

[@Strike86]

To expand on the Alfasud story with information from Matteo (Roadster Life)'s channel: The Sud used the same steel as Northern Arese-built Alfas - the reason they rusted so badly is that the factory was new, with a disgruntled staff more used to farming than building cars, and the several hundred micro-strikes that came during the Sud's production meant that bare steel car bodies were often left outside, totally unprotected in the weather between the stamping and welding plant and the final assembly line. There was nothing inherent about the design or specification of the Sud that made it any worse than most other cars built at the time - it was just poor management, industrial action and inexperienced workers. Lancia's reputation for rust is even more of an old wives' tale. Since 1989, every single Alfa Romeo product built has been galvanized, so the idea that Alfas are still rust buckets is simply not true. In fact, they're much better protected than most Japanese and many German cars. Amazing how one product can tarnish a manufacturer's reputation forever.

[@zairomolino4074]

Yeah second gen Alfa sud had a pretty decent rust proofing,not astonishing but good enough.

[@clivewilliams3661]

The story that I heard was similar in that the bodies of Alfa cars were built by an outside contractor who stored then in a leaky old warehouse, where they were rained on, the body cavities ingested water and when they were moved to the factory they were dipped in the usual protective primer that simply didn't adhere because it was wet. When Fiat took over Alfa they insisted that the supplier build a new dry warehouse to store bodies and panels and to ship then in covered trucks. I have an 1984 Alfa Alfetta GTV6 that had the new paint protection regime as well as being waxoyled by the dealer from new and it sits there today outside in sound paintwork condition and in a better state than my 1992 Merc.

[@simonmason8582]

My 1999 156 and 2007 159 both rusted to destruction.

[@razorback20]

My 1991 Alfa 33 was less prone to rust than my previous Renault Clio from the same model year. And yet, each of them was far from having the same reputation on the market. So, yes it's time to get rid of all this unfounded bias and prejudice.

[@GianniBarberi]

With the oil crisis of the 70s alfa became state owned and were politicians that created this project of a facility in the South

[@colrhodes377]

I'd heard all of them. In defence of the Allegro, I had one and it was wonderfully comfortable and reliable. It was our only car at one point and then I was given a Datsun Cherry 1.3 company car . The Allegro wasn't as quick as the Cherry but it beat it in every other respect. The Cherry went after two years but the Allegro stayed with us for a further eleven years as a second car. Even now, my sister has the Allegro * much work has been done * and while it's still running great at over 260,000 miles she is more than happy to spend a couple of hundred quid on it every year for the MOT. After all, as she says, she wouldn't get a modern car that reliable and comfortable for that money!

[@patagualianmostly7437]

Words of wisdom! I tend to think that the militant workers at BL tarnished the overall image of BL.... Shot themselves in the foot, as it were. Yeah, we know, the management was crap too.... but overall.... the product rolling out the gates was not up to scratch and that was poor build quality. Had the Allegro been just 10 or 20% better built.... it would have outsold the Mini....It was simply... a much better car. Thank you Red Robbo? Discuss.

[@adrianbeese2150]

I worked in sales at an Alfa main dealer from72 to 75. When the transporters arrived with the Sud they were inspected and most sent to the paintshop for paintwork especially the external boot hinges that were rusted solid. On the plus side the original sud sport was the best handling small car by miles at the time.

[@JamesClark-uz9wq]

Has someone mentioned the quote attributed to Enzo Ferrari with him supposedly saying that the E Type Jaguar was the most beautiful car in the world? I hear this one all the time but nobody can ever find a source for that quote.

[@Jonathan-dq8hb]

I've heard it too. Someone, possibly the designer or a company official , was on the stand at the car's introduction . Enzo apparently came up , looked it over , and made the famous comment. The rest was "...except for one thing. It doesn't have a Ferrari badge on it " .

[@Jonathan-dq8hb]

It was Norman Dewis at the Geneva Motor Show, when the type was introduced. He is the one who Enzo spoke to.

[@Gynra]

Thank you for this interesting video: I wasn't aware of a couple of those myths. Back in the 1960s Vauxhall had a reputation for rusting badly, which was supposedly caused by the use of inferior steel. However, my father, who worked at the steelworks that supplied Vauxhall, told me it was in fact thicker and better steel than that supplied to other British car manufacturers. As an aside, I think the myth about being allowed to shoot Welshmen with a bow related to Chester, rather than York. One would have to have a heck of a big bow to shoot into Wales from York, whereas from Chester it's a tad easier :)

[@johugra1]

The Alfasud story must have changed because when I had one the story was that some cars were made from a batch of good steel coming from Germany. I only had my Alfasud for 18 months and it did not rust so I always assumed it had come from the batch of German steel.

[@patagualianmostly7437]

Yes.... I'd go along with that , except....as I recall...all makes seemed to rust very quickly around 1971/2..... and global production of poor steel was blamed. But yes.... Vauxhall did indeed seem to be the worst culprit.... "Rot Boxes" we knew them as..... Thankfully...it would seem most manufacturers have resolved this blight on their expensive offerings. Wheel arch linings in plastic being their salvation. (Where I live in the world: Rust on cars is never a problem.... because there is never any salt on the roads.....even sand gritting causes problems as it removes protective coatings.)

[@sdry1688]

Another that bugs! - There is no such car as a Robin Reliant ....lol Thanks Ed

[@charlesowen4728]

Thanks for this interesting look back into our automotive history. In defence of the dear old allegro. It wasn’t a bad car, I used to sell them for a while when the first came out. They were really only an up graded 1100. They were comfortable, roomy and they went well. The original ‘Quartic’ steering wheel was a bit of a hard sell but hey, it was the seventies. As ever keep up the good work

[@CoastHobbit9340]

Squared-off steering wheels are very common these days - look inside a Peugeot! The Rover SD1 definitely had a slightly squared wheel but no one seemed to mind. The Allegro was ahead of its time for that - if only they'd given it a hatchback!

[@RUfromthe40s]

i remenber when i saw the alegro i felt like it was a original design or a evolution of the austin 1300(GT or not)same engine of the mini 1.275 GT , the regular 1.3L was less powerfull, it wass bigger and nice lines in the car body but had already bought a new car two monthes earlier ,so i didn´t bought it for me , i´m not sure but in the 80´s they released a improved model ,maybe late 70´s

[@russellwilcox1180]

I can't talk from personal experience, having never owned an Allegro, but if they really were as bad as some would have you believe, why were there so many of them around?

[@vwestlife]

You can add onto the list the myth that the Chevrolet Nova didn't sell well in Spanish-speaking countries because "no va" means "it doesn't go" in Spanish. Snopes has an article busting this long-standing myth, which has even appeared in university textbooks as an example of a marketing blunder.

[@smittykins]

My ninth-grade Spanish teacher told us this as absolute truth.

[@alejandrowaiser1067]

The translation is true. In Argentina the Nova was renamed, I didn't know this was the reason

[@smittykins]

@@alejandrowaiser1067 “No va” does mean “no go,” but “nova” means exactly the same in Spanish as it does in English.

[@jemimallah2591]

@@Loveitdownunder it was renamed montero in those countries (and the us). it was only the uk it was called the shogun

[@ChristianMcAngus]

A big part of Italian cars rustiness was worker unreliability. Production would often be stalled due to industrial disputes and other reasons. Partly-prepared panels would get moisture on them while sitting idle.

[@brianhaygood183]

Ford's quote never said you couldn't get a car in the color you want if the color you want is grey, green, blue, or red. He simply said you'd get what you want if what you want is black, and that was true so long as he said it in 1914 or later. He wasn't lying. The idea that that was the only color ever made is something he never said, but was actually true after the first year. Japanning, or baked enamel, though we'd use the term varnish today to describe the technique called "baked enamel" then. Having the body match the frame and other parts of the car also streamlined production, so, while not necessarily drying faster, it did speed production and make it cheaper overall.

[@Mark1405Leeds]

If you look at the number of 50 year old Moskvich still on the road in Russia the steel can't have been that bad!

[@Soundbrigade]

We had one of these cars once and it was pretty normal. However I think the steel was thick enough to withstand a Javelin and would take ages to rust away.

[@thatcheapguy525]

I owned 2 Alfasuds, still to this day one of the best cars I've ever driven. they were incredibly reliable/economical/quick/handled well/comfortable/well appointed but they turned to dust at an alarming rate like everything Italian did back then. most cars from the 70s weren't built to last which is why few people had them serviced regularly (I was mechanicing from the mid-70s to the mid-80s). you're right about the All-aggro getting too much stick. it was a massive leap forward in refinement/practicality/performance over the 1100 even though it had that weird steering wheel, strange tapered brake pads and too much really cheap plastic inside. the estate version was a cute little thing though. but hey it was the 1970s, a period when most of the British car industry was under British Leyland and stretching out the life of ancient running gear in new bodies was pefectly acceptable.

[@oldbones4941]

Another good example of how a video should be made, well presented,well done

[@Mancozeb100]

Hear, hear... times 10. An absolute Sunday morning pleasure to watch Ed at work ! His quality of production is so good. It's almost like he's a natural! Actually... I think he's a natural!

[@peterriggall8409]

@@Mancozeb100 Melody is looking pretty spiffy too I notice.

[@ianmontgomery7534]

The problem with the rear window of the Alfa-Sud was the clips that held on the chrome strip. They were pushed in and broke through the paint all around the window. When I replaced the the bottom of the rear window of mine we took the rear window out and rust proofed it all around then replaced the window. Instead of replacing the chrome surround I filled the void with black Silastic and took the time to make it look perfect. i remember seeing an Alfa guy do a double take when he walked past mine at a service dealer. I spent over an hour telling him my views on the car which was mostly favourable -the fault was where they took the vacuum off caused that spark plug below it to burn out. being in Australia it didn't rust until after i had a collision and they didn't rustproof the repairs.

[@TringmotionCoUk]

Now I have a little more insight on the mini. I had the book by Graham Robson - "the cars of BMC". The "bloke down the pub" (metaphorically- I don't want to identify someone publically) used to hark on about his dad being a director at BMC. I found his photograph in the book - so I know it's true he worked there. He reorganised the production of the mini at cowley to be significantly cheaper than longbridge - meaning cowley cars made money and longbridge ones did not. So production engineering provides the answer to this "myth". The story went on that he left in the mid 60's (factually correct - I checked) saying "if this company carries on like this it will be bancrupt in 10 years"

[@lewis72]

BL certainly got their money's worth out of the A Series engine tooling.

[@darrenquirk2269]

I always thought the criticism of the Allegro styling was rather harsh, the square steering wheel being the exception to this. I like them, particularly in brighter colours like orange or yellow.

[@scootergeorge7089]

Closed captions say "five common automotive myths" 0:19 I first heard the backwards aerodynamics claim directed at the Ford Pinto hatchback. Supposedly pro stock racer Bob Glidden had Ford measure drag on the Pinto and as a lark, turned the car around in the wind tunnel and found it created less drag that way. Until now, I believed that trait was largely confined to the Pinto. thanks for clearing that up!

[@andicog]

As an ex alfasud owner and professional paint sprayer I'd say that the steel in Alfas may not have been Russian but it was poor quality, these cars rusted fast, a lot of cars rusted back then but alfa steel rusted much faster than say Ford steel, a rust scab that started under paint would be a hole in no time. My friend worked for an alfa dealer back then and the suds were rusty off the boat, boot lid hinges would be siezed on delivery. Mind you, I worked for Peugeot and a good few 605's were painted before delivery due to rust issues. 👍

[@3ducs]

Alfas from the 1950s and 1960s rusted badly too, I've restored several of them, the tin worm loves them. Jaguar XK-Es also rusted merrily.

[@grayfool]

I have a couple more for you Ed. No Audi sold in the UK have indicator bulbs fitted at the factory. When Audi realised that nobody used them, they saved some money buy not fitting them in the first place. In the eighties, the sales contract for the Ford Escort XR3i stipulated that if you didn't wear a basball cap back to front every time you drove the car, your mum would confiscate your car keys. I'm pretty sure they are both true>

[@razorback20]

🤣

[@FergR]

My favourites are engine related: The 6R4 engine is a cut down Rover V8, The Lotus 900 engine is based on a Vauxhall and The Hillman Imp has a Climax engine.

[@GRAHAMAUS]

All basic cheap cars of the 70s rusted, because no car company used much corrosion protection such as zinc dipping and the paint was acrylic, not epoxy. British roads are routinely salted in winter, and there's your prime cause. My first car was a 1970 Viva. At 8 years old, it was already fairly rusty and tired, and that was normal for Vauxhall, Ford, Hillman, BL, Fiat, etc. An 8-year old car today is considered nearly new as long as it's been treated reasonably well.

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

I remember spending many hours looking for information before the internet. One of the biggest problems was finding practical information. For example if you needed to do a job on your car you could get a repair manual from the local library. However in practice you really needed to talk to someone who had experience doing the job... The man in the pub probably had never actually done it... but any ideas were better than nothing.

[@James-gf9jl]

That's probably why I wasted hours shopping around for a metric adjustable spanner.

[@AlexTenThousand]

To go further into the Alfasud (and Lancia Beta) rust issues, which mostly afflicted early production models, we have to get a look into how and where it was produced. In 1968, the Italian government and Alfa Romeo renovated the old production facilities at Pomigliano d'Arco (near Naples) as part of a plan to industrialize Southern Italy, but for some reason, the people who got hired to work at the renovated factory were mostly the same who renovated it, leading to some early issues with workers who never built a car before being takes with a whole sub-brand of new cars (as Alfasud was meant to be a whole branch of Alfa Romeo), and on top of that, the frequent late 1960s/early 1970s strikes meant that steel panels meant for use in cars were often abandoned outside for days, leading to early Alfasud models suffering from early rust.

[@CoastHobbit9340]

Another part of the problem was, apparently, that many of the assembly line workers were from farming families and simply sloped off from work to help with the harvest rather than finishing the week's production. It is nonetheless strange that management hadn't taken the local economy and working traditions into account!!

[@razorback20]

I heard another story about southern italian workers being reluctant to apply anti-rust coating under pretext that 'it was irritant to their skin'. But, Luigi, we have provided you some protective gear to avoid that. Why are you not wearing it? Because it's too hot in there. *facepalm* 😮‍💨

[@AlexTenThousand]

@@razorback20 That one most likely ain't true - keep in mind these people came from rural areas where they either worked the fields or brick & concrete, it's not like they didn't know about protective gear or cared much about skin conditions.

[@davidw6469]

An excellent and interesting little video. You could make a mini (pardon the pun) series of these. Super script writing and delivery.

[@21stcenturyozman20]

Ed turns mythbuster. Great! 👍 I'm sure there are more such myths out there. Keep busting them!

[@Oddman1980]

6:18 I have a 2012 Ford truck that is painted "green", but it looks black unless it's a bright sunny day. Interesting that the model T was sold in a similar color.

[@datathunderstorm]

Your videos are absolutely fascinating and the presentation / delivery is top notch. You’re doing an amazing job! 😊👍🏾

[@pauloconnor7951]

The panels / Bodies were allowed to sit ...... before primed & painted. There's a video that explains how long. Also strikes contributed; hence sitting longer as bare steel.

[@psdaengr911]

The Model T "any color so long as it's black" quote had a context. It was referring to the time when production was being rapidly and then massively scaled up by simplifying the design any optimizing the production facilities, simlar to what Tesla did for a while, producing only white or black vehicles for weeks or months at a time in China. For Ford this was during the Highland Park and early Baton Rouge plant production.

[@feedingravens]

What I heard about the Alfasud was that it was actually built in the Sud, the south, in a new factory in Sicily that was right at the coast. But the Italians had a habit of striking frequently, and in that time the freshly built raw steel bodies were standing outside, totally unprotected. Outside, with the sea near, they were getting salt spray right on the raw steel body. So you had the main source for rust, the salt from winter, integrated into the car, even UNDER the paint. No wonder the people said the rust before you buy them...

[@awaisdon2868]

I really like this style of video, would love to hear more car myths busted.

[@automobilistic]

great video! I'd never actually considered that most cars would be more aerodynamic going backwards. It seems very obvious now, but it goes to show there's always learning to do!

[@craigcolavito5606]

Hey, love your channel too, glad to see you're a Twin-Cam fan as well, Ed needs more views as far as I'm concerned!

[@mikep4566]

A story told to me years ago by a Lancia fan was that the Italian car industry blamed the rust problems they encountered on the switch from positive earth to negative earth, when dynamoes were replaced by more efficient alternators. Sounds ridiculous, until you learn about the concept of sacrificial anodes used on ships. But whatever the reason, all cars used to rust. Galvanisation has put a stop to that thankfully.

[@anthonystevens8683]

A great video Ed as usual. Many cars of yester year had design deficiencies that held water in some way. Some were mechanical (lack of drainage holes) along with production where body shells had to move outside in the rain from one building to another. Other issues could be aimed at the perceived anti rust treatments that were OK for a year or so before breaking up and forming rust traps accelerating the metal moth. Adding external trim was also a problem where push/screw in mounting clips could wear the painted mounting points adding even more rust traps. Thankfully things seemed to have moved on... from a body perspective anyway. Back in the day a 10 year old car could have been perceived as living on borrowed time due to body rust, these days the car body in many cases out lasts the engine and running gear. Cars could last even longer if the costs of things like suspension, labour costs etc didn't exceed the scrap value of the car and that is a big shame. A quick question, does a London Taxi still have to a) have enough headroom for a gentleman to wear a hat and b) be able to perform a 'U' turn in the street?

[@richardsmith579]

The Alfasud’s workers kept striking, leaving the car shells rusting in the humid salt-laden air of the bay of Naples until they returned for an occasional spot of work.

[@Andy-xs3ld]

My Alfa was made from the same material as tea bags (not Russian tea bags 🙂) but it was faster than anything any of my mates had.

[@mcmoose64]

It was rumoured that all Fiats and Alfas came to Australia as deck cargo on a submarine .

[@patagualianmostly7437]

Like it..... probably true as well!

[@SabotsLibres]

A caveat for the black Fords: in the UK, it was impossible to get a black Ford from the factory from the end of production of the 100E and 103E models in 1962 until the early eighties. Even then, it was rare to see a black Ford (I drove possibly the only black Cortina in 1981)

[@andysaunders3708]

I had a Lada. It was a tank. My Toyota Cressida was an absolute rot-box in comparison. It was condemned at around 65000km. The entire left rear 1/4 just seemed to vaporise. Sad.

[@1unsung971]

Co owned an Allrust And Aggro for a couple of years in London. It was all beatup on the outside but never failed to start and run really well. Can't recall what happened with it in the end.

[@billolsen4360]

Paper your guest bedroom walls with Soviet Rubles! 2:31 The red Mini looks so sad in the face with those headlight brows. Those Austin & Morris 1100's are still a beautiful design - wish they had sold it here in the states.

[@H-Zazoo]

Most cars in the 70s were more aerodynamic going backwards. Unless you were towing a caravan. Then you weren't.

[@randomchannel1712]

The truth about all Italian cars from that era is NOT that they used soviet steel BUT PARTLY RECYCLED steel, ship steel as it's called, plus very poor rustproofing and generally Italian QC

[@southerneruk]

BMC to BLMC to BL, the nationalisation of industry to save jobs, and it worked, it was that well set up the profits was paying for UK Debts to the USA. Before the sell-off, these nationalise industries paid the WWI debt to the USA and the 1920/30s debt and nearly paid off WWII debt, before it was all sold

[@MakerfieldConsort]

A very interesting video. I must admit, I did know a couple of these, but I suspect that's from the comments to previous videos. Hopefully this is the first of a series?

[@TwinCam]

Depending on how well this video does, and how many more I can come up with, who knows?!

[@MakerfieldConsort]

@@TwinCam I can think of a couple - chances are you'll know them already, but I'll message you anyway to jog your memory.

[@shankarbalan3813]

Well done Ed. Keep bringing nice interesting content of this kind as well. It’s great for people who love esoteric information and trivia.

[@davidpeters6536]

Very good, enjoyable few minutes. Some of the new designs, like BMW and Lexus are hideous thanks to the huge grills. Keep 'em coming Ed.

[@kins749]

Great video, well researched and referenced, unlike many out there

[@sahhull]

i owned an Austin Allegro. It was a great little car. Reliable, easy to service, cheap to insure. It was honest transport. Someone stole it and burned it.

[@andrewmoorhouse687]

Great video Ed. I’d never heard of the hay bale in London Taxi myth and the bonus on the Allegro was a great one to end on. 👍

[@Lucan-ve6zc]

Terrific channel. I hope it grows and grows.

[@jimbrown5091]

Pretty much all grades of mild carbon steel will rust if not treaded. Steel is by definition mostly iron, which will rust (form iron oxide) when exposed to oxygen. I worked in heavy equipment manufacturing for decades, our vertical panels are basically made with automotive grade sheet metal. Anything that sits in the factory unpainted has to have a rust inhibitor on it. Thicker plates are shot blasted to strip off rust and scale prior to painting...but any scratch or dent that disturbs the paint results in immediate rusting. The trick to keep cars from rusting is 1. Galvanizing (adding a coating of zinc or other non-reactive metal) and 2. Paint with multiple layers of urethane based coating to keep oxygen away. Datsun /Nissan cars of the 70's were notorious for rusting while in transit from Japan to the US...zinc dipping ( and thicker steel) took care of that.

[@patagualianmostly7437]

Yes...I can appreciate that. Also...they claimed great MPG figures.... of course they could: The cars were self-propelled-tin cans! great MPG but...Lethal in even a minor accident. Are we seeing a return to that scenario with these overweight electric cars? The inertia is immense... any accident will be accentuated by that. You have to wonder...don't you... "save the planet with your electric car"....."kill yourself and your kids with your planet saving car."... What a crock of........

[@doubledee9675]

Aerodynamics - the original Citroen DS had a nose which was very sharp in profile. After a few years, attention was turned to the panel underneath the nose, and that was very much smoothed out. Of course, the DS was designed to be able to travel long distances quickly, rather than for rapid acceleration, and this is where the aerodynamic work in the original design paid off, to be boosted by the revisions .

[@willswheels283]

Great video Edd, about the Mini myth, I never knew that myth was that, I did believe that myth that BMC made a loss on every Mini they produced, but you’ve busted that one, thanks! Another myth is regarding the Reliant Robin three wheeler that Motorcycle licence holders had to “blank off” reverse gear if they didn’t have a car driving licence, this may have had some truth when three wheeled cars first made an appearance but definately a myth since at least as far back as the 1960’s. Reliant Robins we’re produced and sold to motorcyclists so that they had a choice other than paying for driving lessons and passing their tests before driving a “Car”.

[@patagualianmostly7437]

Sorry....but that is a myth as well. Reliants , even before the Robin had reverse and you had to have a full licence to drive one. I think you may be getting confused with the original three wheelers... that were driven by motorcycle engines ...some even had to be kick-started under the bonnet! The Meschersmitt three wheeler? And another one whose name escapes me....) They obviously did not have a reverse gear....so possibly, that was the loophole. Maybe.... just maybe, they did not require a full "car" licence.... But later Reliant Three wheelers you surely needed a car licence. (My Dad had one)(🙄) The major difference was the annual car "Road Tax".... they only attracted a tax of somewhere between a large motorcycle & a four wheeled car. For some reason....That was the clincher for my Dad.... I personally hated the damn thing! A freaking death trap: An accident looking for somewhere to occur. I never passed a Motorcycle FULL licence...I was a "L" (Learner) on machines up to 250cc.... But I had a full licence for cars....so I could drive the Reliant. Having just written that...you have made me re-consider: My Friend has a Full Motorcycle Licence & also had a Reliant at some point.... Mmm I'll check with him! As Arnie would say: I'll be back! Cheers.

[@willswheels283]

@@patagualianmostly7437 My Dad only ever had a bike licence and drove one for many years, I owned and drove one legally after passing my bike test, it actually helped me get more practise on my own for my full car license. The idea that motorcyclists could not drive a three wheeler unless they blanked off reverse first is definately a myth nowdays, this may have been the case initially but certainly not for long.

[@MrAvant123]

Great to see young men like this taking an interest in these topics ! Liked the Allegro fact ....

[@markdavis2475]

There are plenty of films on KZbin showing shocking rust on modern American pickups 😂

[@jameswells6003]

My dad really rates the Allegro. It's the only car he bought new back in the seventies. When it was only three months old he was to work in thick fog and he saw a lorry on the other side of the road going the other way. Then at the last minute he saw a car on his side of the road overtaking the lorry. He walked away with only minor bruises. The Allegro can't be all bad! It was a write off but the insurance company refused to write it off so 'repaired' it - apart from sharing the registration there was doubt it was even the same vehicle!

[@eddiehimself]

One really pervasive myth of modern cars in particular is that the engineers have free reign to design cars however they want and yet they choose to make terrible design decisions because they're apparently either utterly incompetent or they're just asinine individuals who hate mechanics and practical design. So-called "car guys" who have no understanding of how the automotive industry (or indeed any large engineering corporation) actually works are particularly responsible for spreading this idea.

[@RobsonRoverRepair]

I remember reading about the theory of 50s rust onwards that low back ground steel reacting badly to chemical treatment and also welding methods at the time, interacting with the radiation contamination in the steel lessing durability. Now I don't buy it but I'm no bio chemist or radioactive materials expert.

[@malcolmherbert5127]

The myth about Henry Ford saying you could have the model T in any colour as long as it was black actually has its genesis in the history of British railways. It came about from the Chief Mechanical Engineer of the London and North Western Railway, Francis W Webb, who when asked by his board of directors what colour his new locomotives were to be painted in, answered with that time honoured quote “ You can paint ‘em any colour you like as long as it’s black”. LNWR locos we’re indeed painted black, but reports of the time say that the lustre and shine of those machines had to be seen to be believed, so much so that it became known as BlackBerry Black.

[@mossig]

Old Lada actually has thicker steel then Fiat and rust less. Alfasud's problem was not one thing but many. First they used recycled steel(many German brands still do that) with a lot of impurities. The filled all crevices with foam before painting or dipping the bodies in rust protection. They where also transported on open deck boats to Europe and got covered in salt spray. Some recipient countries has prolonged dock and customs procedures(UK had dock strikes) so by the time the car was at the dealers they where already rusty. Some importers like the Fiat dealer in Stockholm went to Italy and bought up the cars that had not passed factory inspection for a lower price and was supposed to install missing and defective parts but failed to do so. So a window crank handle could be missing or no heater fan. That was up to the buyer to get fixed under warranty that then the factory had to pay for it. In the late 80.s Fiat stopped using recycled steel on the Croma's, that rust a lot less the the sister car SAAB 9000.

[@SemiDad]

I loved my 1983 Alfasud. So much better than the Golf or Kadett of that era. Only in 1985 did the others catch up with the Jumbo & T car.

[@terrymofmich]

In 2003 Ford built special additions of their popular Focus celebrating 100 years of Ford being a car company. All those special edition Focuses were black.

[@zJoriz]

Some side notes: Didn't Mini take off after they started winning races? Or is that a myth as well? About aerodynamics: I think most hatchback-types of cars are that way not just because of the radiator, but also because of the hood/bonnet acting like a sort of point in a teardrop shape.

[@worldhello1234]

@7:42 Yes, but grills aren't that big anymore and it is only factor among others. If you have a rather chunky rear with a lot of surface area, I doubt that the grill makes a bigger difference.

[@nolesy34]

Tell that to hippopotamus rappers

[@edwardfletcher7790]

The rust issues were partly caused by lack of galvanising and bad steel handling processes.

[@gbone7581]

which car is galvanised?

[@edwardfletcher7790]

@@gbone7581 All cars since the 80's. Except some current Chinese cars.

[@CmdrVimes177]

Well researched, well written, well presented - good job.

[@DeltaDemon1]

The first 3 are very specific and very British. I hadn't heard of any of them and I don't even know what the first car is. The last one used to be a common myth but isn't all that common anymore.

[@peterriggall8409]

Fascinating Ed. I learnt a few things. I always thought the story of the Russian steel was true. Also surprised that the Minis biggest year was 1971. I would have guessed about 67 or 68. 👍

[@southerneruk]

The main export steel production countries was UK and Japan.

[@worldcomicsreview354]

I bet some spoilsport is going to come out of the woodwork and say Pepsi didn't actually have the world's 5th largest navy :( (Though I beleive the "warships" they did actually get were already decomssioned and part-scrapped, so were inoperable hulks. Pepsi couldn't have invaded The Isle of Wight and declared it a Coke-free zone)

[@mirisch64]

Finally, a proper explanation! I am so pissed off with the myth about the poor quality of soviet steel...

[@JurisKankalis]

Yeah. Because there are so many Ladas still on the road. How is Lada doing in Russia, by the way, after Renault and previously General Motors left? And how is soviet steel doing in the independent Ukraine? Oh, by the way - how are you still allowed to watch youtube? Isn't the entire world cut off - because the only truth you can stand - is the "truth" from Kremlin, not the entire remaining world (except maybe North Korea)?

[@peterriggall8409]

@@JurisKankalis Maybe not the time or place mate.

[@mirisch64]

@@JurisKankalis I have migrated to Canada in 2008, and this is not my problem anymore.

[@Soundbrigade]

There was a rumor that The Swedish Volvo’s in the 70’s were made by poor Polish steel and thus rusted a lot.

[@piwex69]

" Poorly referenced clickbait news sites" - there is a myth, that these are the most popular sites.

[@kevinbarry71]

Alpha did not use inferior quality Soviet steel. They used even more inferior quality Italian steel

[@michaeltutty1540]

The Model T "myth" is sometimes true. Prior to adopting the moving assembly line the Model T was available in quite a selection of colours. Fords built in Canada were available in colours long after those built in the US, because the assembly line was later being installed. As an aside, that original Ford factory still exists as the Shoppers' World plaza. There is a very simple reason why black was chosen for the Model T on the assembly line. Paint was not sprayed on the cars. Rather there was a paint waterfall and the Japan Black paint was literally and liberally poured over the assembled car bodies. The paint chosen was the one that had the right viscosity to allow it to flow over the entire car without runs in the paint, but would also dry quickly enough to maintain the speed of the assembly line. When it comes to aerodynamics, hot the airflow leaves the car is as important, if not more so, than the airflow at the front. These new cars with the ridiculous tail ends create a large vacuum that literally sucks fuel. I was broken down on the shoulder of the motorway after some lovely soul stole gas from my tank and replaced it with water. It was interesting to feel the 2 ton 78 Thunderbird shake as different vehicles went past. Needless to say, transport trucks were worst. Oddly, the then new Jaguar saloon was second worst. This was about 12 years ago now. The oddest thing is that it was older cars, with sloping boot lids and a lower end to the body that created the least disturbance, signifying a cleaner air flow. The thing is that at speed vehicles with a more upright front end build an air wedge that works. It may come as a surprise that the ancient Volvo 140/240 actually slices through the air rather nicely. Even odder, the back end of the estate does not suction up debris to anything like the extent new cars do. On a snow day like today, and I am heading out on an hour drive to do work on my 90, the tail lights will stay clear and visible the whole way. Then there is the magic of Volvo. Without a body part moving the entire station wagon sinks on the suspension as you pass the 100 mph mark, becoming noticeably more stable. Go figure that one out. The basic body hit the market in 67, and the roof and tailgate remained the same through the end of production in 93!

[@johnwalkley6746]

I remember growing up and learning to drive and there was a myth going around that the alfasud was a good car.

[@TwinCam]

No one with any sense about them would suggest the Alfasud was anything other than a good car.

[@jstevenson7121]

The alfasud was a great car ..... except for the monkey metal.

[@johnslater2488]

Thanks Ed, whatever the truth about Russian steel is, I can attest that early Alfasuds rust from the inside out. Any stone chip in an early car revealed oxidised steel. This compromised steel, wherever it came from, seems to have been used by Fiat, Alfa and Lancia from around 1971 to 1976-77 or so, it wasn’t just poor production engineering.

[@sadiqmohamed681]

It appears to have been due to two things. It was not galvanised or treated before use, and it was stored outside in the weather. Nearly every car manufacturer in the world had this problem before it was identified. I had an Alfasud for a couple of years in the beginning of the '80s and it was fine. One of my favourite cars and a real pocket rocket!

[@saxon-mt5by]

Just like Japanese cars of the period... or British cars, or French cars, even, dare we say it, German and Swedish cars. They all rusted at the blink of an eye.

[@stephenarbon2227]

@@saxon-mt5by What about Vdubs, + older Volvos they seem to have lasted long after their replacements died.

[@patagualianmostly7437]

@@saxon-mt5by I particularly remember ALL MAKES & MODELS becoming rust buckets very prematurely in the early '70s.... They were SHITE.... But Vauxhalls seemed to be the worst affected. Which leads me to think, that worldwide, steel processors were trying some new "trick".... to save money.... And motorists paid the price of their failed experiment. (I once took a ship to scrap in Taiwan that was built in the early 70's.....Internally and externally, It was a complete mess due to rust.)

[@Keithj136]

There is no doubt that you are a star, what a great video.👍🙂😎

[@paulcharlton2353]

Nice one, that should cause some commotion down the pub tonight.

[@danevans3333]

So iirc in regards to the Sud, the reason why rust issues were so bad is because the assembly line and the paint room were across an open yard from each other and they didn't tend to bother covering the cars up before transporting them over and didn't bother drying them off before painting them either

[@1258-Eckhart]

On the Allegro, it's also more difficult to fair in headlamps because of the lenses as a critical element, whereas rear lamp clusters are not so critical and can be flush with the bodywork.

[@usernamesreprise4068]

almost right young man , the welshman thing ISNT a myth it is STILL a law on the statute books to this day. only the location is CHESTER (which is ON the border of North Wales and England) and not York, in as much as it was perfectly permissable to "despatch" ANY Welshman found to be still inside the City walls after the sundown closing, as at the time the Northern Welsh werent exactly errrm "freindly" shall we say towards Englishmen. and if still inside the walls would usually be up to no good. - although trying it today would obviously end up with you having a very bad day indeed.

[@MakerfieldConsort]

According to the Law Commission’s Statute Law Repeals team, who regularly field queries about such ancient legal oddities, this has its origins in a City Ordinance, allegedly passed in Chester in 1403 in response to the revolt led by Owain Glyndwr, and which placed Welshmen under curfew. They point out that it's unclear if this ordinance even existed in the first place, let alone similar ones concerning Hereford and York (where the targets were Scotsmen). If its very existence is in doubt, it's safe to say that it isn't on some obscure corner of the statute books.

[@deusdat]

There were dozens of other models claimed to be more aerodynamic backwards. Renault 12 for instance.

[@gabrielhowardMKE]

This is such quality content, great presentation, great editing, great pictures and footage, top job. You just got a new subscriber.

[@AutoReport1]

Another myth - fwd cars are more fuel efficient than rwd cars. In fact they're not. At least in the modern era, they're less fuel efficient. But they are still generally cheaper to make than rwd cars with the same body size and displacement. So smaller more efficient cars tend to be fwd. But if for some reason a company actually makes a rwd car the same size, style and with comparable powertrain, it invariably uses less fuel (and often for the same reasons has more power as well). These days it's pretty moot as EVs are unaffected by which wheels you drive.

[@antonmealy168]

Depends.. frictional losses are increased in transferring power through 90 degrees such as a traditional differential for a longitudinal engine layout was one factor, as was the additional weight of propshaft & separate transmission & differential casings. But everyone buys 4wd & big heavy vehicles in the name of safety anyway now. Efficiency be damned.

[@nolesy34]

@5:00 this comes from the paradox of when you really need a taxi its like finding a needle in a haystack... so taxis had available hay bales with a hidden needle inside so if you found a taxi and ear bashed the taxi about how hard it was to find a taxi he pointed to the hay bale and said.. not happy? Go get a needle.. since its the same as getting a taxi

[@gbone7581]

I heard the myth about the e-type Jaguar being more aerodynamic going backwards than forwards, I doubt that many (or any) modern cars are like that.

[@andrewstones2921]

I always learn something from your videos, and today is no exception. There are a lot of stories around the Allegro production. Have you heard the one about the early Maestro that if you jack the the back up on the original supplied jack that the rear window pops out.. I've wondered if there is any truth in that one.

[@Mancozeb100]

I heard that story about the Allegro !! Myths merging and melding !!!

[@Mariazellerbahn]

One thing I do know from experience ... if you parked a Renault 4 half on the pavement and opened the tailgate, you couldn't close it without levelling the car fully on the road.

[@saxon-mt5by]

A friend had one of the first Ford Escorts, the body of which flexed so much a door would burst open when cornering hard.

[@daveayerstdavies]

It was the 'facelift' Alfasud that made news headlines for going rusty, sometimes even while brand new and standing outside dealerships. Production methods and storing unfinished bodyshells outdoors didn't help, but the main problem was the injection of open cell foam into poorly drained body cavities.

[@farmideas]

The rust didn't make the alfas, suds and 33s, any less fun to drive

[@ThePussukka]

The Model T's probably all seem black to us now because we're so used to seeing them in b/w films and people have repainted the restored ones to black after thinking them of black.

[@davidhayes4814]

Dispelling myths, untruths…. half truths …. is always problematic, partly because what is true is either highly nuanced or unknown. I guess that BL lived in the land of missed opportunities …. as we still do today.

[@numberpirate]

6:01 love the way they spell "four door" as fordor in the lower right corner for $660.

[@wordreet]

BMW's modern monstrosities of grilles got you a thumbs up matey! I really dislike them! 👍

[@alm7707]

The myth that "bigger is better" was true in the 80's because a Cadillac was way better than a Chevette!