Fox Nerd Explains How Mang0 Won Smash Summit 11

[@Tophbbq]

YO I'M LIVE RN COACHING NOAHSW AGAIN BUT THIS TIME... in real life.... CHECK ME OUT!!! www.twitch.tv/tophbbq www.twitch.tv/tophbbq www.twitch.tv/tophbbq

[@Tophbbq]

ALSO THIS IS TOTALLY NOT AN EDITOR POSTING THAT COMMENT AND PLUGGING A PAST VIDEO SO THAT TOPH (ME) CAN SHOW THE PREVIOUS SESSION OF TOPH'S COACHING WITH NOAHSW AKA OCTET kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnOlYp6Oq8eAsMk

[@Saskaruto16]

We gotta acknowledge that the reason Mango is so good at watching for dash attack and f-smash is 100% because he spent so many years playing M2K.

[@Tophbbq]

100%. Mew2king even came by my Twitch chat the other day and said this himself, LOL

[@Rain-od6oc]

i just realized the thumbnail has the wizzyfan109 glasses that’s incredible

[@feris3410]

...I just realized the ones in the thumbnail are the literal pair I'm wearing now

[@jf4617]

Hi chippy

[@nivdy]

The quote still hits so strong. "There is so much more melee to be played"

[@Check_5_]

I’m not even the most avid melee player but I would watch a whole live melee lecture if toph held one like this

[@Skapes11238]

17:55 This was a point of emphasis on one of Tweek's podcasts about top 10 Ultimate players. They each have their own unique skill that they have pushed to the limit and thrived with.

[@ynz1923]

LOLOLLL the spacies getting grabbed by marth on netplay and rage quitting but being fine getting techchased or chaingrabbed or comboed by any other character is the most real thing ever. Especially on FD. God bless mango for winnin on FD ive found more foxes and falcos will finally play on that level without quitting out after smash summit 11 gf

[@SimplyAstonished]

Same. I had a fox not quit on me once on FD today. a few even took some games off of me. Crazy when they actually try without the thought in their head that its an instant loss. Lets go mango :)

[@isaacrobertfoley8203]

As a fox player I knew the nairs you were talking about while having the tab in the background LOL

[@mithias1]

This genuinely is THE BEST analysis I've watched. It's nice because you broke down situations and included the same scenario from other matches to help the breakdown. Thank you SO MUCH for what you do Toph!

[@billyhorchel5429]

Toph screaming at 11:39 has me fucking dying hahaha what the fuck was that

[@Se7enRemain]

The grand finals looked like a really high level 2005 match. The sloppy but effective improvisation, the wall tech Zain did on Mang0's down smash that you'll see like 13 times in an Azen, Ken set. Melee can start to look unrecognisable from itself 5 years ago. To see parallels from matched *15* years ago made me smile

[@miste.remusic]

For those who can dig astrology, mango and zain are one day away from exact opposite birthdays. Gemini/Sagittarius. They are all opposing signs. Basically you couldnt make a more perfect “enemy” in the zodiac than the sign that is opposite you.

[@JustButton]

Thats actually incredibly dope. If someone made it up for a story it would be cheesy lmao. The storylines just get better

[@Archrid]

I think you raise a good point about the whole character matchups thing. I think most of us remember that period of time where we had basically written off the possibility of a Peach beating Hbox and then lloD happened.

[@alexkfridges]

Mango's fox has always been better and more unique than his falco, in my opinion. Whenever mango reaches his absolute peak, it's with fox.

[@mattcrozier8308]

I mean part of that I think is that foxes peak is just higher then falcos

[@alexkfridges]

@@mattcrozier8308 implying that mango's falco peak is being limited by the character and he's playing falco the best he can be played? I don't agree. I think he's just a better fox than a falco

[@mattcrozier8308]

@@alexkfridges bro name me a better Falco then mango ? I don't see your point

[@jaredconway3142]

I think fox fits mangos peak more because when mango plays on point he is an aggressive powerhouse, and fox is allowed to be more aggressive than falco imo. That’s not to say his fox is better cause he can’t be playing peak all the time

[@grizzykuma5246]

@@mattcrozier8308 You're actually so right. The closest Falco to Mang is PP, maybe Wes, but the gap between best and 2nd is a loooong way down

[@Rain-od6oc]

honestly probably the best melee set ever

[@fireglue]

honestly probably the best melee set ever

[@neotamashi79]

honesty probably the best melee set

[@spoopdawhoop]

honestly probably the best melee

[@blackstar_850]

honestly probably the best

[@davelabonte7806]

honestly probably the

[@paxtonkocka3803]

died when he said the stuff about that good spaghetti

[@michaelmeade4767]

Random question for someone with more insight into the fox:marth matchup - how do you feel that frozen Pokémon stadium has effected the overall balance of this matchup? I was a little surprised to see that it was the stage that they were striking to, and I feel like nobody is talking about it. I also feel like historically, stadium has been a game 4 or 5 counter pick in this matchup more often than a starting stage. Just kind of a newer development I was curious about

[@grizzykuma5246]

Um, personally i think it actually balances it out into Marths favor. I'm no expert, but i think Fox handles and capitalizes on the transitons much better than Marth. I think they jank up the neutral for Marth players, while frozen allows the Marth play much safer and more consistently.

[@superjuddy]

a video of a fox nerd reacting and analysing another fox nerds analysis of the best fox player. we must be in 20xx this is so confusing lol

[@pIayingwithmahwii]

The best player at my local was an ICs who said that the key to beating Fox in any matchup was to make sure he lands in front of you. I think this is especially true in Marth-Fox. Think about a lot of the matchups Marth has traditionally struggled with. Falcon and pika are constantly trying to overshoot Marth and get through/behind him. Puff wants to be crouched or aerial weaving inside and around marth’s body.

[@mario101395]

I think the nature of games needing patches to stay relevant really hurts a ton of games potential to properly develop to the competitive level that melee has. Sure, a lot of these esports will still get insanely high level play because games getting patched usually doesn't change the game enough for it to literally be a whole new game, but patches on even the smallest thing in a game have crazy ripple effects that will definitely cause certain factors of games to be relearned, which sets back the competitive development of a game. I think an interesting example of this is actually Dota 2 because although I love the game and it has some of the most insane competitive play in esports currently, there are tons of moments that show how patches can tend set the skill back of certain players due to either meta shifts or just mechanical changes. But yeah, this Melee grands was nuts because the game hasn't changed, but the level of play has and it really felt like I was witnessing the birth of the next level of Melee. Game is fuckin sick, also great video! Keep em comin!

[@DoomJoy666]

fox marth is simply 50 50, they both have equal counters to everything they can do, they also both punish insanely hard on each other. they are equal i think, the player thats better in the match

[@DoomJoy666]

what if it was actually 51 49?????????

[@seanathan1]

17:10 blur saying chaingrabbing is hard makes me laugh

[@somaghost]

I hope my paisan Scar doesn't let you get away with calling pasta noodles. Unacceptable.

[@alexkfridges]

Yeah that's straight up blasphemhy.

[@RiffRaffish]

PeoplesChamp

[@befferyjefferey]

they just start ranting about this as soon as mang wins

[@_tikho5220]

Short Version: He used Fox.

[@ピカリFritzyBeat]

11:38 Toph with the Toy Story Woody laugh

[@electromagneticlemon]

BUZZ WATCH OUT AN ALIEN!! WHERE 11:38

[@RiffRaffish]

LMAOOO

[@trisckit]

lmfao

[@BL3446]

Fox Nerd? I thought Fox Gang demoted you to just a commentator? lmao. jk. Great joke and even better analysis here. Good video!

[@JadenSmithEyes]

Title confused me because I already watched DruggedFox review *edit: makes esense now

[@Hitmonchu]

yo 11:35 is a whole jumpscare LMAO

[@OneTwo1989]

I'd love if youd actually play clips for longer and analyse instead of talking about the game in a paused clip, i wanna see the actually scenarios not 40min where theres 30 seconds of gameplay

[@KittSpiken]

Hmm, talking a lot of snuff about having the heart of a Shiek main Mr. FOX nerd

[@BL3446]

Did Toph get a haircut mid video!? lmao

[@IIIISai]

Nice Title

[@KuhEssen]

You are definitely reading too much into the random on slippi quitting

[@lakessbm]

All my nairs are going to be good nairs😂

[@Frank7489]

What’s the significance of the glasses with only one frame in it?

[@Frank7489]

@uuubon why does none do it? Did wizzy used to do that or what? Where’d he get that from idgi

[@christiansanchez2307]

THERE SO MUCH MELEE TO BE PLAYED

[@mbabaneamputee7725]

I was waiting for this one. Fudge Leffen. Toph > Leffen

[@kennythekid130]

Why are you bullying wizzyfan109 with the thumbnail? He hasn't done anything wrong :(

[@arvenasaur]

Spagettios with the best parm to top lol

[@BananaLugh]

all i got from this was michelin star spaghetti 10/10

[@milk4you1200]

Great video

[@joshuabell5600]

Toph is awesome man

[@zeke547]

is that wizzyfan the fox?

[@zalooooo]

yo toph you gotta link druggedfox's video in the description. gotta rep his insane content! love yours too, keep it up, great analysis kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKuugX5np9x2eck

[@Fattyb00batty]

I loved all the talking but you barely watched any of the video you where trying to base and get points from. Then you just cut away to you talking about another point. Would of liked a little less PauseChamp

[@slpn2314]

maybe mango was making zain play bad :)

[@arturoliu1219]

Not sure why melee players always have to shit on other games but whatever

[@Eval999]

Lmao people really watching Zain throw by missing punishes he basically never fucks up over and over and they're still gonna say its the best set of all time because of the context of Mango winning summit.

[@Frank7489]

Mango played under the same pressure, he dropped really important stuff as well, yet he clawed his way back again and again to win. This level of play from Zain might of not been his best but it still would of crushed many other top level foxes. Lmao

[@Eval999]

@@Frank7489 I prefer sets where both players play well

[@dhaxiskhadhammer]

I think it's just the context that makes it hype af. First tournament back from covid, biggest pot. Mang0 just had a legendary losers run all tournament and he did it using his Fox which he hadn't seriously played in Tournament in years (outside of Hbox). I absolutely think that technically it wasn't the greatest set but it's definitely "one for the books", for lack of a better quote. There's recency bias, and the Mang0 hype so maybe eventually people will not still consider it the best set ever, but you can't deny how historically important this set is for the community and honestly that's the hypest part of it all. But hey, it's all a matter of opinion.

[@2000Doriyas]

What other player could put Zain under the same pressure as Mango? It’s definitely the context of a strong player making the other strong player feel uncomfortable and forcing mistakes. The pressure was ON, and Mango outlasted him. You can’t act like Zain was not playing well just because he made mistakes, EVERYBODY makes mistakes during tournaments.

[@ghiidra__]

agree

[@Instinct_JM]

I legit don't think the grand finals from summit 11 was that good. I think both players played average at best. Zain also proved he's the biggest choker in melee history so far.