Frame Trap - Episode 76 "The Cost of Fighting"

On this episode of Frame Trap, Ben, Ian, and Kyle wrestle with the highs and lows of recent releases such as Anthem, Dead or Alive 6, Kingdom Hearts 3, Astroneer, and more.
TIMESTAMPS
05:53 - Anthem
29:50 - Kingdom Hearts 3
49:57 - Caught in a Frame Trap: "That Happened!?" - Ridiculous moments in video game marketing
01:06:17 - Dead or Alive 6
01:32:48 - Astroneer
01:43:29 - Adventure Time: Pirates of the Enchiridion
01:53:42 - Earth Defense Force 5
02:01:10 - HOTTAKE: How do we feel about Super Smash Bros. Melee not being at EVO 2019?
02:20:40 - Emails
SPONSORS
Greg "TheDarkKnight" Kettering
Xotig (@xotig on Twitter)
JoJo's Dent Co.
Ohyescoolgreat
Accounts Payable
Gift of Heaven
Woof-Woof Games would like to draw attention to RAINN, the largest anti-sexual assault nonprofit organization in the United States - www.rainn.org/
Yoltmayne - / yoltmayne
Twitter: / yoltmayne
MEGA SPONSOR
River Horse Inc. - www.river-horse.com
Twitter: / riverhorsetrain
Email: [e-mail]
---
Graphics - Joe Ellis (@Joe_David_Ellis): Concept & Design
Chris Leroux (@ChrisLeroux): Animation & Motion Graphics
Music: "Illuminate" by Ethan Rank - artlist.io/song/4423/illuminate
Explosion Audio - freesound.org/people/Iwiplopp...
Explosion graphic - • Explosion croma key gr...
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#EasyAllies #FrameTrap #podcast

[@quagthias]

"What EA character could be added to Anthem a la Capcom characters added to Monster Hunter World?" Alex Hunter from the FIFA story mode.

[@themegagamesgamer]

Haha. That put a smile on my face.

[@thiagovidal6137]

They recently added the 2 fictional characters of the story mode of Fight Night Champion in UFC 3... So not that far fetched. Careful what you joke about. lol

[@zeldark]

I found the melee discussion fascinating because you rarely hear people complaining about SF 3alpha or takken tt (just two examples also with cult following till today ) not making the roster because there’s already newer titles represented . As tournament organizers, it’s always best to prioritize variety to include more competitors and attract larger audiences. I think it’d be kinda absurd if only ssb gets multiple titles on the roster every year when there are plenty of other fig series couldn’t get representation at all. Personally I think its much healthier to keep a diverse and balanced roster.

[@beetlehorn]

Yeah, Alpha 2, SFIII and even SFIV all have communities still going strong, Melee will still thrive but it's always been entitled to get a spot every year when its such an old game.

[@carpcarter6766]

"My swollen sword..." o_o

[@soulful_chris]

Kyle's reaction, too good.

[@YayWalterSullivan]

Timestamp plz, lol

[@Horrorgins]

@@soulful_chris Only the crushing reality of Pokemon Sword and Shield could bring him back.

[@Frumlock]

Pokemon swollen sword and bruised shield... is that something chat?

[@UC3rm0aNC4ysyZipDZotXnZA]

whats the game on the thumbnail?

[@Kmaitland89]

Killer show. I would watch you 3 do any show. Perfect mix of the cast.

[@tvPH-]

Episode should've been called "My Swollen Sword" tbh

[@Bman54X]

2:55:20 The 3DS version of the Master Quest had the entire world mirrored, but not the GameCube pre-order one Kyle was talking about. Ben was right about TP being mirrored, though it was only technically the Wii version that was.

[@nagihoko]

Fighting games are my favorite genre of competitive video game. So let me say that I don't watch Evo to watch "the best people be the best" in whatever game. I watch Evo to see people excel in games I care about. And frankly, I'm done caring about Melee. I have no desire to play or watch the same game for 10+ years just to be/see the "best". Games come and go because variety is interesting. Some people in the FGC will overly praise the Melee community for sticking with "their game". But I'm not here for one game, I'm here for the genre. The scene. And the scene can only move forward by developing new games and players, not by having the same 5 guys duke it out year after year after year after year. So goodbye Melee. You had some good innings. But we could all do with a change of pace.

[@KingKien95]

Like Ben said, you can have both. And the same thing happens in other fighting games too. Ultimate will most likely have some of the same top players in smash 4 make top 8 in Ultimate. And players like Sonicfox or Kazunoko who plays multiple games and always make top 8 in multiple different games will be there too and possibly win. So this argument makes no sense.

[@nagihoko]

@@KingKien95 I don't think they exist in isolation though. As Kyle said, the presence of Melee and how long the matches are has an effect on all the other games. Not to mention it does take up a "slot" that could go to another game. And yes, top players will show up again and again regardless of game but the pool of top players is a lot bigger. That's what I'm talking about here. When you talk about who could win SFV or DBZ this year, it could be one of dozens of players. When you talk about who could win Melee, it's one of five. And to reiterate Kyle's point, if you're a young kid watching Twitch at home, how likely are you to pick up Melee, really? You might not have owned a Gamecube growing up or even *seen* a CRT TV before. Is that person really going to invest in all this shit just to play Melee? Some will, certainly, but the vast majority will just play SF, or DBZ, or CS, or DOTA. The Melee scene is far from "dead" but it's certainly stagnant.

[@KingKien95]

@@nagihoko so basically just cuz it's not a traditional fighter and old it gets treated like this and that's ok? This is why melee was isolated in the first place, cuz the fgc back then didn't take it seriously. And so what if most kids don't decide to play it, there are some and they don't all have to be kids. And viewership is still high. There really isn't any good reason to have dropped it.

[@NSFSponsor]

@@KingKien95 They dropped it so other games could get shine and promotion. That's more than enough reason to drop it. Melee has been there more years than any other game currently on the main stage. It had its time(and will continue to at its own events). Also, old traditional fighters get the same treatment so don't play that card. People love Marvel 2 and 3, Alpha 2 and 3rd Strike, Tekken Tag and Tekken 5, etc. But those games are old and its time to move on.

[@KingKien95]

@@NSFSponsor cuz they're new and better versions of those games(mostly) from the SAME franchises. Marvel will come back whenever they make a good one. No new Smash game will ever be like melee, until then or if a melee hd is ever made. Melee is completely different which is why it deserves to stay. They don't care about giving promotion to other games, it's ALWAYS about money, except this time cuz I honestly just think they're tired of having to set up CRTs and Wiis. I'm not super salty about it, I just think that's lazy and unfair. Cuz if there was a melee hd on the switch, Melee would still be there.

[@terencecaron2922]

New Frametrap on sunday morning (here in europe) is just a christmas gift. With the best team, IAN and Kyle !! Yay !!!!!!!

[@peacockjive6847]

Where in Europe? ^^

[@UC3rm0aNC4ysyZipDZotXnZA]

whats the game on the thumbnail

[@TwistedFoo]

What a wonderful way to start my Saturday night!

[@killer1one1]

Ian's bewildered perspective on the DOA 6 season pass is exactly what I needed x))

[@Zomious]

STICKY FINGERS!!!! 1:04:45

[@paully88]

Elevates the episode from a 9 to a 10.

[@JudgmenTaichi]

*Zipper Man*

[@finallyjeremy8217]

Bob Dylan has an angelic voice! You take that back, Ian!

[@FreeDoM_nl]

Is Brandon the only one sending emails? He is in every episode.

[@UC3rm0aNC4ysyZipDZotXnZA]

whats the game on the thumbnail?

[@ComicsLamar]

I miss the old intro theme. It made me feel like I was in a jazzy coffee shop with friends.

[@kephalai]

god I want a whole show of just Kyle and Ben airing their grievances about pokemon...

[@generalwoofles6240]

Top 10: Issues Kyle has with Pokemon.

[@rinaldus4512]

Timecode?

[@kephalai]

2:20:49

[@ShallBePurified]

I want Final Bosman back, with Ben as a guest star.

[@kephalai]

@@ShallBePurified everyone wants Final Bosman back except Kyle Bosman himself lol

[@cmew27]

more of this lineup please 😍

[@BladetastersDelight]

Hands down best line-up

[@ThiefSakon]

awesome intro and outro song!

[@Rinneford]

That last overarching conversation about iteration was kickass- love frame trap because of discussions like these

[@EfryeN2]

Ben, I truly like your positivity and that you’re enthusiastic about so many different video games and genres! However, I also think it’s important to accept when other people are not. I get that the omnipresent pointless hate and negativity on the internet can built up some sort of protective barrier against any kind of criticism towards the things we enjoy, but not being able to talk about our frustrations with something without being shut down immediately isn’t much better. The issues Kyle brought up about Kingdom Hearts both here and and in Spoiler Mode are absolutely fair. Whether or not they impacted your enjoyment of the game is of course a different conversation, but simply brushing them aside feels kinda wrong. Similar things happened when he voiced his opinion about Pokemon Sword and Shield, which again, were all fair points. Several of my friends felt the same about the game’s reveal, and they all have a varying degree of familiarity with the franchise, so it's not just an issue for long-time fans. To get to the point of all my rambling: I feel like it’s become somewhat frowned upon among the allies to criticize games that others of the group love, and I don’t think that’s a good way to have a conversation. I get annoyed by constant naysayers as well, but that doesn’t mean we should close the doors to anyone who has an unpopular opinion. Personally, I thought the overall storytelling of Kingdom Hearts III was a huge bummer and simply badly done. But if we were to speak in person, I don’t think I’d dare mention it.

[@TalesOfNerdiaChris]

I didn't find Ben dismissive at all. I thought he provided enough room for Kyle to discuss the things he disliked and, as the host/moderator, moved the conversation forward appropriately while pointing out that games with flaws can still be enjoyed. I think Ben also knows that even though Kyle has things he disliked about these games he still really likes them overall. But hey, that's just how I saw/heard it. I think your criticism is important to provide since that's how you saw it and you provided it respectfully. Just thought I would throw my two cents in there since I saw it differently. L&R

[@alexanderchilton911]

Don't agree with this at all. Ben always tries to balance out the conversation. So if it is overly negative/positive he will try to counter argue.

[@ShallBePurified]

@@alexanderchilton911 I think Ben is one of the better allies at keeping discussions from being too biased in one direction or the other. As a whole, it feels like the group is hesitant to completely go all the way into criticism mode about Kingdom Hearts 3, and I think it's because they've been waiting so long for this game and has been constantly talking this game up for years. I think Ben, Ian, and Kyle were all pretty reasonable in this discussion, but they feel like they're holding back because of the other allies liking this game significantly more.

[@MellowFelloh]

Agreed.

[@MamaWaffles]

When Ben starts talking about DOA6, I definitely got the vibe that Ian and Kyle were like the supportive parents intently listen, despite not being experts on the topic. Love the jolly vibes and keep it up!

[@Soupkitten5]

This combo is so good. Ian and Kyle were on fire during the emails.

[@Alex-444x94]

Great episode y'all!

[@SmorgasLord]

Bioware really needs Kyle as a quest designer, but we need him here more

[@Edgemaster72]

CORRECTION: It's Marceline, not Madeline

[@kif1983]

I saw a documentary some time ago about struggling businesses. One of the points they made is that a lot of times they think "I need to raise my prices to survive" and how it almost always makes things worse.

[@Snowkoi]

Final Fantasy XIV is an online multiplayer game that works with a great story

[@ginapertance1767]

Question, Ian previously mentioned that Anthem would be better than it initially looked like and better than what everyone was expecting (he alluded that he knew people working in parts of the game); but at the end of the day, it was still very disappointing. Did he ever refer back to his initial comments on Anthem?

[@MilloLP]

no ofc not who does that xD would just be embarassing

[@TerranIV]

Recipe to save Anthem: - As you collect pieces of machinery around the world the Alchemist s figure out how to make a telescope and they spy another habitable planet nearby - the planet from Dragon Age - You decide to try and build a ship to get to that planet and you complete a bunch of missions to get pieces of technology to build this ship (and stop bad guys from building one). - Finally at the end of the game you figure out how to build your ship and you fly to Dragon Age's world - Then the next Dragon Age game is a sequel to Anthem!!! It portrays the conflict between this mid-evil fantasy magic world with the mystical technobably world of Anthem. - An expansion to Anthem shows some of the Dragon Age people bringing magic to the world of Anthem. - An the fans go wild (if they don't screw it up again).

[@droppedelbow]

Love this line-up.

[@mikkelharving256]

Great episode

[@Segab]

Pokemon not pushing its formula further to me sounds like GameFreak not knowing what makes Pokemon popular and great. They don't even try to deviate from the formula because they know it works just fine and they don't want to accidentally replace a thing that people will hate. It took Pokemon GO, *a third-party mobile game*, for them to even _consider_ removing random encounters, and even then they brought that back in Sword/Shield. They're SO scared people will disapprove of a tiny change from the original formula that they won't even try, so they add small optional gimmicks to it instead like mega evolutions, minigames, dressing up, petting, etc. What makes Pokemon what it is isn't the random encounters, or the locked camera, or the 6-party, or the turn-based battles, or the 4 moves limit, or the overly complex weakness system, or the 8 gyms. It's about capturing and collecting cute/cool monsters and then battling with them. Pokemon GO worked because they found the core of what Pokemon was and rethought everything else. Meanwhile GameFreak is stuck-up with keeping everything the exact same, as if trying new things with the camera or the battle system a bit would suddenly ruin the franchise.

[@Segab]

I love Kyle's take on licensed games. It's probably what I miss the most about the PS2/Gamecube era where those types of games would come out every month, some of them would be shovelwares and some would be solid 7s. There's still so much untapped potential with those, yet most series end up only getting lame mobile games instead.

[@HylianTicipated]

God yes FRAME TRAP. I missed you.

[@Sage_Of_Thyme_]

2:40:17 Kyle, THAT is the reason why you're my favorite. THAT right there.

[@charoleawood]

I love it.

[@franjaff6919]

I'm glad Kyle's being honest with his feelings about the new Pokemon game. As a die hard fan who's been consistently let down by the franchise since the 3DS era, it's reassuring to hear that I'm not alone in my thoughts.

[@Kaleb_SMILE]

Dang i just realized since Pixar wont allow Square to re do their stories would Coco even work? Could Miguel be featured in the world if it has to take place after the movie?

[@Alextreme_713]

"Improvisational chainsaw fight" made me spit take; Too good.

[@7thsaga662]

Frametrap!! Dope guests 🙌

[@DerUserX]

Those thumbnails look sooo good.

[@Largentina.]

Thanks, I just got a manicure.

[@SolbergMusic1]

Now that you guys are in the studio can we please get four members back to Frame Trap? I want to hear more about what all the allies are playing :)

[@maxpower2448]

Finished the main campaign of Anthem a few nights back and carried on to see a bit more. I think Ian nailed it. The movement and combat are fine but everything else around it either isn't fleshed out or seems to be made as if it was a game made years ago such as in the case of inventory management. There are 3 mission types basically. - Go to area and clear all enemies - Collect 'x' amount of items and bring them back to spot (artifact fragments or echos) - Hold the area for 'x' amount of time Most games have repetitive structures but dress it up with set dressing such as set piece moments, surprises, unique mission variations, unique mission enemies etc which is where Anthem falls flat. As far as the main campaign goes only the last 2 missions and 1 mission in the middle actually add any dressings mentioned, also the last 2 missions seems to really up the quality in chat between characters and moments. It's a shame the same quality wasn't shown over the whole game. The fact that Ian touches on that they haven't taken any design tips from the trial and error of other games is spot on and Ben saying that as far as time wise there are just better things you can go play right now. I think expectations also took a hit around some more enthusiast and higher end console owners too after they (Bioware) said in a few interviews that E3 demo would quality would not be downgraded and was played on an Xbox one X, and then it releases downgraded and is much different which was already a hit to some peoples expectations. I think the 6 given from the review is pretty spot on. Curious to see where they take Anthem and what they add in the future and see if they can bring it back around, but I won't hold my breath. This is a great panel. Keep up the great work boys :)

[@dfreitas4218]

“Swollen Sword” Too blue guys.. too blue. Lol

[@JennyBonBon]

I care about all the "side" characters in KH3. That moment when the thing with the one dude happened was awesome. Actually, the whole end game was super amazing

[@tefargentina]

Hats off to Massive for halting all DLC to fix the first year after the release of The Division. That's how you communicate to your playerbase you're working for the quality of life and not to sell the next broken thing.

[@Tidus5005]

I remember the marketing campaign for Dante's Inferno so I answer Ian's question about 'murder'. It was the Sin of Wrath. Yahtzee from The Escapist received a sealed wooden box that played Never Gonna Give You Up and it could not be switched off. The package also conveniently contained a hammer which was to be used to smash the box open and presumably bash the speaker inside to stop the music. Once opened, the box contained a note informing Yahtzee that he had committed the sin of Wrath.

[@ByondAShadow]

There's a lot said about the new Pokemon game, and I understand the fears that Kyle and everyone has, but I still think there's a lot of surprises in store for us. I also feel that we are overlooking the fact that this is definitely still a game marketed to new gamers, especially young children. That being true, i don't know if Pokemon will ever be a BotW style game...

[@guillermo5050]

I can't find any source for that skrillex nobody thing but I believe it 100%

[@matthewmanduchi491]

For gluttony, Dante's inferno sent out cakes made to look like severed limbs made of red velvet cake and flesh covered fondant icing.

[@GigaMan91]

I think Melee being excluded from EVO 2019 is most of all because the organizers got sick of lugging around CRTs.

[@bryanmoberg8408]

Murder is not one of the seven sins, the closest to that would be wrath.

[@suchasquare1886]

I did not play a lot of it but didn't SWtoR do that thing where the entire party is part of the dialogues or cutscenes? Couldn't Anthem have done something similar to that?

[@overtherenowaitthere]

Yup, people in your party who you teamed up with could roll to make a dialogue choice

[@lawthirtyfour2953]

I think a frame based on one of Isaac's outfits from deadspace would work great.

[@razasaeed5053]

I think this is my favourite Frame Trap to date. The Dead or Alive 6 season pass conversation was fascinating because I didn't think someone could defend it as well as Kyle did. Although, I didn't totally agree with him, I thought he made really great points and changed my opinion about it slightly. I also thought the conversation about Pokemon Sword and Shield were great because I love how critical Kyle can be about something he loves so much. My favourite part was when he called out people who called out people who apparently expected "too much" from a new mainline console Pokemon game.

[@AquamentusLives]

The story played out pretty well in Borderlands 2 during online multiplayer.

[@Vvonter]

I wonder if asking for Pokemon to be more ambitious with their productions is like asking for EA to be more ambitious with FIFA. Since like what Ian said, would an impressive Pokémon game increase their user base? I mean Breath of the Wild did took open world tropes at the expense of some tradition some fans weren't completely ok with. I suppose it's a give and take. Since FIFA did add a story mode and I don't think that increased it's userbase that much.

[@keir92]

Vvonter Pokemon doesn’t need to do anything much at all. Each game acts as an entry point for a new group of kids so they limit themselves to very incremental improvements.

[@artoriasoftheabyss1575]

Fifa is Fifa. It is based on a real life sport. You can only do so much when you have actual limitations unless they go full arcade sports. Pokemon isnt and shouldnt even be compared.

[@phazonmasher]

Atelier Lydie and Suelle also published by Koei Tecmo had a $90 season pass. That added new characters, new fields pulled from other games and entire soundtracks. For fans, it seems worth it, but it's not a good look on the outside. I'll be real, I bought it, but I'm a bad person who buys JRPG DLC because I want to support the genre despite how much DLC costs.

[@RobAryeeArc]

"Destiny Ain't Cheap" vibes.

[@TerranIV]

Anthem would have been a good solid game if they would have simply made Fort Tarsis an open world city where I could walk up and talk to someone (still in my suit) and then immediately run to the edge of town and take off into the sky or jump in a walker-thing and fast travel somewhere. If they HAD to have first-person view, just make it an option like in Red Dead 2.

[@LetsChat]

OH SHIT I LOVE THIS THEMESONG. You picked like the best 4 second portion of a generally mediocre song.

[@UC3rm0aNC4ysyZipDZotXnZA]

whats the game on the thumb nail?

[@hko9845]

Agreed with almost everything Ian said in the whole show. Love to hear him interacting in a serious way in these conversations as he brings points I don't see other allies making. Completely agree to his comment on Pokémon. It's not like Zelda or Mario at all like Kyle implied. BOTW isn't a game made to appeal to "hardcore Zelda fans", it's a game made for people who like open world titles, which are huge these days. This may or may not include Zelda fans. A few fans disliked the direction the series moved to, but they were replaced with new people. Zelda was changed because of low sales and Mario actually keeps reusing the NSMB stuff to this day because it's more popular than the 3D series. Pokémon is simply different. At its core Pokémon is and always will be a turn based RPG series that has to be acessible to all ages. The number of people just waiting for a hook to jump in is smaller than people wanting to play an open world action game, Pokémon has already the people they wanted hooked in and risking changing what makes Pokémon what is is could be a huge mistake. Alienating their fans won't bring them even more consumers. And it's not like they only make the same game everytime, they're different enough for people to go on endless discussions about the best and worst generations. The differences between Pokémon titles are like the differences between FF 1 to 6 and no one would say these games are the same.

[@grazooka9901]

Was falling asleep to this and heard "Madeline." I'm wide awake now lol

[@mrhipshot]

I missed most of the Pokémon conversation because I was laughing at “swollen sword” haha

[@FebreGundam]

Kyle's reasoning for Melee being out of EVO is flawless. And he doesn't even have to mention the quality (or lack thereof) of the game itself...

[@hippy3000]

480p resolution still in the studio :'(

[@Acarinn]

LOVE astroneer. Unfortunately can't really play it on xbox with a friend it's like watching a slideshow. Runs smooth as butter on my buddy's PC but on the xbox one X it's a trainwreck when playing online. Comes and goes as if you are looking at areas of intense clutter and then looking away, but it just does that constantly regardless of what you are doing.

[@DuncanZ64]

Ben's Swollen Sword ( ͡◉◞ ͜ʖ◟ ͡◉)

[@1boshow]

I loved Kyle getting so angry at Pokemon

[@baircade]

if a jolly happy rainbow sprinkles cute baby animal franchise ever gets me that frustrated/angry before even playing please put me down haha end me ibooooo

[@MrDannyWright]

Ian "The form is the function" Hinck.

[@SuperBloodedge]

STICKY FINGERS!

[@julien2231]

Hold on.. swollen sword. Move on!

[@charoleawood]

Because in the original Funny Games you didn't get to see Naomi Watts, Tim Roth, Michael Pitt, or Bradly Corbet express their considerable acting chops. I can't say it's exactly the same as the way the Psycho remake was done, Psycho has its effect as a piece of film history, it is of its time and is best absorbed that way. But Funny Games in English with those actors is still very powerful and visceral, there is no sense that something is lost.

[@alexanderchilton911]

Why are people fine with remasters/remakes such as Shadow of The C./Crash/Spyro, but Link's Awakening is now a huge point of discussion? Why should the story and characters not be true to the original when people love those things? It's been over 20 years since the original release. I don't see why they should strive for a much difference experience when the original release hasn't been played by so many fans (and I don't understand why old fans have a problem with the game being true to the original). Other things like art style and price point is fair enough to discuss, but I think this idea that everything, even remakes of old Game Boy games, needs to do brand new things besides totally changing the visuals and remaking the game from the ground up, is a bit ridicolous.

[@qq-sq6qz]

Wait, i think I'm out of the loop here. Whats wrong with the links awakening remake? Looks similar to the lttp remake and that was amazing. Do they talk about it in the emails section.

[@alexanderchilton911]

@@qq-sq6qz Yes.

[@Horrorgins]

Those were collections (minus Shadow). I think the price point is the question. Paying $60 for what is still a Gameboy game in length and mechanics (if that's true) could feel pretty rough, versus say, a package that also included the Oracle games. As someone that rents as well as buys games though, this is a perfect rental, I think it looks amazing.

[@alexanderchilton911]

@@Horrorgins I specifically mention this not being about the price tho. Maybe it is subconsciously, but they don't mention it.

[@Horrorgins]

@@alexanderchilton911 You did, but while they didn't specifically mention it, I think it's what informed the discussion about Link's Awakening, along with the limited capabilities of the Gameboy. That's quite different to PS2 > PS4. For example, do you expand the dialogue as the text limitation directly influenced the way the dialogue was written? Do you change dungeon dimensions given the aspect ratio change? How much of the original design do you stick to when the tertiary elements that informed that design are no longer there. I don't have a preference, but it definitely makes for a different discussion than the other examples you mention.

[@tillist1]

kyle talking about the adventure time game was actual real life pro strats only

[@YoungsterSkaymore]

Correction: Pokémon didn’t take a year off after Sun and Moon

[@falagarius]

I'm 100% behind Kyle on Pokemon. I wanted a full 3D Console Pokemon game since day one. I wanted that on my N64. Now, it finally looked like it was going to happen: but no. It's just a marginally more modern version of what we saw in sun and moon. There's just actually no ambition. I'm still gonna play it and I'll feel like going on a date with my girlfriend on my birthday and she forgot.

[@cheappyv5156]

Kyle and Ian never ever talk girlfriends (although Ian likes to hang around girls). Kyle is an overall lone wolf on top

[@crastofer]

About the Melee drama at EVO. If Melee players wouldn't have expressed their enjoyment of Ultimate, Melee would most likely still be there. Or in other words, if Smash 4 had appealed to the melee scene, Melee would have gone out from EVO sooner. The major reason it has stayed that long is the amount of entrance it brought. Pretty sure the EVO staff feels Ultimate entrances will gather the amount of entries Melee + 4 have been doing (If not more). Viewership is important, but not really? Melee did 100k at the main channel of EVO during Sunday finals day, where for the past years games have been breaking viewership records. Like I recall GG doing 90k one year, and Kof13 80 something too. Evo Sunday always have the best viewership because only 1 game is highlighted. Smash games on Saturday have always done good numbers, but never the same as Sunday. I'm sure EVO staff expects DBFZ and MK11 (Even SC6) to be able to bring a close enough number of viewers during Saturday. So yeah, this was the perfect year to eliminate Melee and not have to deal with the CRT, all the floor room it was taken because of it and the fact that many people in the FGC and general EVO fans were annoyed at the fact that Smash was the only franchise to feature 2 games from the same series gatekeeping other franchises. Is Melee dead? I don't think EVO will kill it, but Ultimate might. Melee fans have claimed for years "We don't need EVO" but they know is a foolish statement. They have other events (Now), some dedicated exclusively to smash, but EVO is still the biggest showcase for any fighting game. I don't think anyone could deny that the reason Competitive Smash has peaked like this is thanks to EVO giving the exposure to Melee back when it came back in 2013. The Melee community did their thing to get in, but history could be different if EVO decided to hold that "buy-in" so the FGC wouldn't backlash them for including Smash (You know, smash is not a fighting game) and had included Skullgirls, the one traditional fighting games that deserve it that year. Is going to be interesting to see how Melee does because as much as people might like a specific competitive game if there's less competition many will end up moving to another with a bigger pool. And as much as Melee players might hate EVO right now, most of them have already expressed that they'll sign up for ultimate.

[@charoleawood]

I love Alita. Great flick. Hugo belongs there because he highlights Alita's naivete and flawed goodness on her coming of age journey.

[@marceljones7940]

how can you call shadow of the colossus for ps4 a remaster.... where does the confusion between remaster and remake even come from?

[@sacredarfaid3699]

Just to pile more onto the DoA 6 situation: In the YongYea video on this subject, he kinda mentions how the base DoA 6 feels like a downgrade to the DoA 5 LR because it they are hinting at highly requested characters from DoA 5 LR like Momiji and Rachel being future DLC and making you repurchase Mai, a DLC character from the previous game. Basically, they have done a poor job of making this feel more valuable than latest edition of the 5th game, and anyone that wants the most bang for their buck should wait for the inevitable 2nd or 3rd edition.

[@Frumlock]

The Pokemon armor talk depressed me deeply. On the other hand it made me think of Digimon. L&R

[@arjan666]

I felt Melee was always a bore to watch, and UNIEST is very underrated, so I'm happy about the lineup. Ben should give UNIEST a try, it has some of the best tutorial stuff of any fighter.

[@The_Jastrom]

Goofy is complicit, Garsh...

[@tennis22drew]

Looter Shooter sounds like a game where you rob businesses during a natural disaster. I think Loot Shooter is probably sufficient (or Shlooter if you are a GB fan)

[@luciddre4m]

Anthem feels like it originally was a single player game several years into development, and EA told Bioware to scrap what they had and convert it to a live service multiplayer game that was then released in an unfinished state.

[@PSpiceProof]

No, Kyle, you're not the only one who hates a pokemon game 2 months after playing it. They're super fun to go through, because there's lots to discover and challenges everywhere, but they're not memorable and at the end of the day you just get frustrated and feeling empty. The worlds, the characters, the interactions, even how you interact with or use your pokemon, it all feels barren and unexciting. I'll enjoy Pokemon Sword, I'll love Sobble to death, but it'lll just be burning through another usual pokemon journey with little to no lasting impact.

[@fastmovingvolcanomatter]

Just to throw in my two cents on the whole Melee-EVO thing, this absolutely doesn't kill Melee. I'm not even strictly certain it hurts it much if I'm being perfectly honest. The community right now is bigger than it's ever been. There are more National-level tournaments in a year right now than most top-level competitors can even go to, all with consistently good attendance numbers, all with great Twitch viewership. Melee will be fine, and frankly (even as a competitive Melee player), I'm super happy to see another game get some shine, especially one as hype as UNIST.

[@kyril98741]

Core value

[@charoleawood]

Swollen. Sword.

[@Dustin_McNab]

I disagree with Ian's assertion that the Pokemon fanbase doesn't have a lot of potential for growth. I think there are a lot of lapsed fans, like Ben, who are eager to jump back in if they see enough innovation in a new game. Monster Hunter World is a great example. MH was a franchise that had a reputation for selling poorly outside Japan, but MHW was innovative and exciting enough to break that pattern and attract a lot more people. Pokemon certainly has similar potential. Maybe the Pokemon Company doesn't have the experience to make that kind of game. My dream scenario would be for them to partner up with Capcom or some other studio that has experience making open world games.

[@JazGalaxy]

I don’t think “lapsed fans” count as “growth” .

[@Dustin_McNab]

@@JazGalaxy Does it really matter as long as it gets more people to play it than the previous game? Also, Pokemon is in a unique position because they have a ton of casual fans who have only played Pokemon Go.

[@alexanderchilton911]

@@Dustin_McNab The thing is, Pokemon sells gangbusters no matter what. It is like Call Of Duty. If they change too much (see infinity war/Let' Go) people won't stop complaining. The lapsed fans (Kyle/Ben) still buy and play every game so GameFreak doesn't really have to try that hard and they have never been the most talented studio anyway so I doubt that they would actually be able to change Pokemon for the better in a major way. If they did it would take at least 6 years of development - and then the game would have to sell like 60 million copies to be worth it to make, which really isn't super feasible.

[@Dustin_McNab]

@@alexanderchilton911 I'm a lapsed fan and I haven't bought a game for a few generations. And it sounded like Ben hasn't been buying mainline Pokemon games either. So they can't count on the majority of their fanbase sticking with them, especially now with a competitor coming out like Temtem. They wouldn't need to stop catering to those faithful fans either. The Pokemon Company could continue to churn out games with the same design for years and they would always sell at least decently. I'm suggesting they get a bit more ambitious with who they partner with. It's clear they're fine with other developers making Pokemon games in other genres (Pokken, Mystery Dungeon, Go, etc.). So why not partner up with a AAA open world studio to see what they could do with the franchise? An experienced studio would know how to budget for a game that size. It would also be a safe bet because the the developers wouldn't have to worry about developing a whole new IP and the community would generate a lot of hype automatically.

[@alexanderchilton911]

@@Dustin_McNab Ben bought Sun and Moon and Let's Go, and as he says in the video he liked both of those games. Kyle loved Sun and Moon (gave it a 9/10 in his co-review with Brandon) Sun and Moon sold gangbusters, Let's Go is selling gangbusters for a spin off title. And spoiler alert, Sword and Shield will sell extremely well. I do think we will see Pokemon company go more in the open world/MMO style some day, but it will be small steps with every iteration. Unless they hire a ton of new talent.

[@borgs101]

Feel like the season pass for DOA is only for the hardcore fans. I've played DOA games before and enjoyed them, never bothered with DLC as I'm not big enough of a fan, given the DLC content is costumes and novelty items really if people want it and they are willing to pay then yeah I agree with Kyle, cant really fault that.

[@UGOTNUKED]

$90 for 62 costumes and 2 characters doesn't seem that bad considering games by now sell SINGLE palette swaps and costumes for up to $20 a piece.

[@ghoul1713]

also those 2 characters have 5 costume each

[@LordRoto]

No. That price is bad as long as everything is bundled. If they release the items individually then you could pick and choose what you want. Just because some companies are worse, doesnt excuse a less shitty move. It's still shitty.

[@GetGoodGirl1561]

Here for an eagle button.

[@corydedek8010]

Awhhh no Trials?

[@samuelcardwell577]

Ian and Kyle!!! :D

[@ToastyOs]

To me the difference between Zelda and Pokemon is that Zelda has made mistakes. Something like BotW can only happen as the result of learning from triumphs and failures alike. Pokemon has been treading through familiar territory and never risking failure, so the series has not been able to gain the experience required to confidently make giant strides.

[@DontEatWhales]

I'm with Kyle. The Sword & Shield announcement was overall rather disappointing to me. I wholeheartedly believe that Pokemon has been on the downward slope since the end of the DS era, and I was really hoping for the best out of this "real Pokemon game" that was coming after Lets Go, but alas, not a good first impression.

[@kaizoaudio1798]

Man, is thus what it felt like when I ragged on The Last Guardian? I’m really enjoying Anthem. I like the characters, and there are some I hate, not because they are annoying but because of their principles. It’s not as bad as everyone seems to think. I’m definitely in the minority.

[@TotemoGaijin]

Hey, someone has to stick around to be part of the small but dedicated fanbase.

[@lanadelrey3821]

I agree with Kyle on so many levels regarding Pokémon. The problem is that people keep buying the games still. There needs to be huge hit to the sales for them to change anything.

[@Horrorgins]

Skyward Sword kinda saved Zelda in that sense. That game fell off hard both in sales and critical reception. I'm guessing Nintendo knew they'd have a damaged property if they did that again.

[@TotemoGaijin]

@@Horrorgins Wind Waker was on the right track, but too ambitious for its time period.