Framemeister Alternatives - OSSC, DVDO, and SCART to HDMI :: RGB105 / MY LIFE IN GAMING

[@hualni]

This topic is really due for an update.

[@tyisafk]

How so? Just curious. I'm gonna try and get an OSSC soon to replace my RetroTINK 2X.

[@gordyowl9455]

@@tyisafk I might sell my Retrotink 2x and my SCART to Component transcoder to afford the OSSC, but I'll ned another transcoder for my CRT

[@brotothewilliams9890]

@@tyisafk ossc has new software

[@ChuckLopez]

@@tyisafk The OSSC has been upgraded via Software to the point in which it matches and in some scenarios surpasses the Framemeister. (does not means the Framemeister is now obsolete)

[@TsunamiUndine]

@@gordyowl9455 yo might wanna wait a little, they are working in a new OSSC Pro, they got one video up here in youtube, at the same time the OSSC classic is now with a price drop.

[@nebbii]

The production quality of these videos would make the framemeister jealous!

[@thehylianloach1995]

nebbii unexpected melee Yoshi

[@SkulShurtugalTCG]

I got an OSSC last month, revision 1.6. Honestly, it's been upgraded so much since this video was made, I see no reason to ever need upgrading to a Framemeister.

[@diegocrusius]

where did you get it?

[@almendraman]

OSSC is better anyways

[@richardnixon1397]

I’ve been thinking of buying an OSSC, but how is it better and what has changed since the review?

[@MrCed122]

@@richardnixon1397 It now has a HDMI port instead of DVI, it has 4x (960p) and 5x (1200p) scaling for 240p (and the 3x is now more compatible), it added a 2x scaling for 480p content, you can change the aspect ratio and you now have a ton of options for colours, scanlines, sounds and really specific video thingies like low pass filter.

[@clintoncronin2504]

@@richardnixon1397 it costs 10% of the price of the framemeister, has zero lag and has a beautiful 5x mode that makes 240p consoles look amazing on my 4k tv. I have an xrgb-3 that I put back in the box. I only use my two OSSC’s now

[@Call_MeJD]

This is the perfect video that I was looking for upscaling and capturing retro game footage. I can't imagine how much time and effort was put into making it but it was worth watching. Thank you.

[@SDMasterYoda]

It's crazy to think how much the scene has changed since this video was released. Even when just talking about the OSSC.

[@piotr78]

Any pointers to what changed? Only now starting to look at upscalers for OG Xbox

[@SDMasterYoda]

@@piotr78 For the OSSC, it used to just output 720p, but it can now can go all the way to 1440p. This recent video by RetroRGB goes over all of the newer options: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipXJd6GIYs2CgZo

[@piotr78]

@@SDMasterYoda sounds good! Thanks👍🏻

[@VideogameBucko]

Btw guys, just realised you never mentioned OSSC is fully compatible with Sonic 2 on the Megadrive, while Framemeister just gives a blank screen in 2 player mode :)

[@reiul9787]

Mine isn't. Two players I get black screen.

[@vivisect53]

Could be the TV that's the issue.

[@DomeCandyGames]

Wow, the level of research and capture work you guys do is impressive. Thanks for bringing us all this good information! Looks like the Framemeister is still on my Christmas list though...

[@Wflash00]

I know right? I really like the GBS 8200 though since I couldn't give two damns about scanlines (don't get me wrong I don't dislike scanlines when I'm using CRTs but I don't like simulating scanlines on HDTVs)

[@MCTV1000Faqs]

I also never understood the point of adding them to your modern TV. If i wanted scanlines i'd use a CRT. Some people seem to prefer them though.

[@MCTV1000Faqs]

FireLeo IV Your comment confuses me, i never suggested CRT's were an end-all solution to anything. I simply stated, that i don't get why people would want artificial scan lines on their games, when i think it looks horrible. I don't know what you think i meant, but your comment makes no sense as an answer to mine.

[@HappySlappyFace]

FireLeo IV 4) a crt will die sooner than a crt.... that makes 100% sence!

[@massaridrums1072]

MCTV Chris muy

[@rodrigomolinsky]

Man, I searched for scalers for years and didn't know about the OSSC. Kudos for you, guys!

[@michaelkindt3288]

0:00=Intro. 0:29=Opening. 0:45=HDTV built in video scalars. 2:38=External video processors info. |3:38=The 4 main features of video scalars. ||3:51=“A good video processor needs a good video signal!” ||4:26=“CRT-like reflexes?” ||4:47=“A true upgrade?” ||5:04=“A little something extra?” |5:18=brief Framemeister advantages/disadvantages. 6:13=Framemeister alternatives: 6:26=Generic SCART to HDMI upscaler. |10:33=Composite/S-video to SCART adapter. 11:45=HD Retrovision’s component cables. 12:13=All purpose RGB to component transcoders. 12:25=European TV considerations. 12:40=GBS-8200. |14:34=Sync Strike. |15:41=“mini-SLG” Scanline Generator. |17:02=“SLG-in-a-box” 17:27=DVD recorders. 18:22=Open Source Scan Converter (OSSC). |28:20=DVDOs. 33:19=Outro. 34:06=Ending. Framemeister: kzbin.info/www/bejne/amTHq6V5dsuIaaM RetroTINK-2X: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5W4nZZ_h5asnpY You’re welcome.

[@semarugaijin9451]

What is the chip tune played at 0:45?

[@Chariblaze]

@@semarugaijin9451 Power Blade - Sector 1: Space Center (there's a featured music card at the very end of the video that lists the game sources in order of appearance)

[@semarugaijin9451]

@@Chariblaze YESSSSSS, Thank You

[@JulioCesar-dz1jo]

2:57 game? Please

[@Supersayainpikmin]

Looking back at this video makes me very happy where we are now with the Retrotink 5X.

[@justanotheryoutubechannel]

Man, I remember when I first hooked up my Mum’s old SNES onto my brothers LG LCD, through RF. I thought it looked *BAD* and knew that it was because RF was shit, but my dad refused to believe that there were better alternatives like an idiot and I still think he’s dubious about my RGB cables now. I wanted to find a better way, and luckily I found you guys! Thanks!

[@l3monpig]

THANK YOU! You guys have taken a mildly complicated subject and broken it down to provide solutions for all gamers.

[@ChrisHollandGuitar]

I just discovered this great channel - I've been binge watching and learning a lot! For retro gaming, I run s-video into a 20" CRT, with good results...but I'm getting the itch to dive into RGB.

[@Larry]

In all seriousness, have you guys ever considered developing a system that would fit all retro gamer requirements and run it as a Kickstarter? If you can make something comparible to the framemeister at half the cost, you'd succeed easily!

[@gabrieleriva651]

Hi Larry!

[@Larry]

***** Really? Have you got any links at all? I can't find anything :S

[@MrSadface]

HD Retrovision wants to develop their own box called the HDMIzer that takes nearly all common SDTV plugs and converts into HDMI.

[@JeanRodo]

Are you just baiting someone to make a bad kickstarter to make a video about it?

[@DaveDoc1984]

The OSSC is a bit of a nightmare to deal with so I have heard.

[@joshbimthedoctor]

This desperately needs an update, 3 years is a long time, the OSSC for example has come a long way. And the SNES with the dejitter mod is amazing.

[@gamerpoets]

Trying to find what the "best" option is today is proving difficult.

[@AustinTroth]

crazy to look back on this now and see how far we have come in such a short amount of time

[@8bitDNA]

i get chills when i hear the intro music. your videos a true video gaming bliss.

[@TheAmazingMoose-Man]

Oh man, a LOT of things has changed since this video came out…that’s insane and awesome

[@robertcarlson8867]

I hope you guys get a chance to check out the latest firmware update for the OSSC. There's a new option for having simultaneous vertical and horizontal scanlines with custom intensity for each row and column of the output. So not only can you put the light in the true MIDDLE of a scanline instead of on the top or bottom, you can combine that with the vertical to make an effect that seriously resembles vertical phosphor lines. I'd love to see a video that shows off some of the improvements to the OSSC over the last few years, especially from a scanlines perspective.

[@mathewtylerjordan5044]

This video deserves a mil watches but there just isn't enough people interested. I am and I really appreciate this!

[@CryptoJordanVR]

It'd be awesome if they would also do different videos for the the different types of converters. In other words, have one video that focuses exclusively on YPbPr Component to HDMI converters and have another video that focuses only RGB Scart converters, and then others for S-Video, VGA and ect. And it'd also be awesome if they would do a video on how a person can figure out what the best HDTV is for their specific retro gaming needs (rather than asking them to try and figure out what the overall best one in the world is because that'd be impossible).

[@Mamiya645]

"Do not think it's Framemeister or nothing" is what I tell people, this video has the right message so consider yourself +1 subscriber. Be sure to look out for old video scalers on a budget, you can make framemeister-forgetting great deals at a tenth of its price, someone put a great one in the wrong auction category and made me a happy camper a year ago.

[@UCs6ktlulE5BEeb3vBBOu6DQ]

I bet this video will be the reference for a long while for people having to plug a retro console on their tv's.

[@realRaven575]

Such a fantastic episode...I may never become "internet famous", but maybe my equipment will...LOL. Thank you again for all your hard work.

[@KWKBOX]

Yea I am just going to stick with my PVM 20L5 and be glad I got a framemeister for recording. You guys ever going to cover how to maintain and fix PVMs in the future?

[@mylifeingaming]

[Coury] Thats the plan. A friend just discovered a local retired CRT/PVM tech who is intersted in helping out. Much like this episode, its a subject that we've been intimidated by and have thus put it off longer than we should have. To have someone local to help out and really knows their stuff would ease my nerves considerably.

[@KWKBOX]

That is great news. I know you guys will do a very informative segment on it. Look forward to it. Keep up the good work.

[@Sebastian-xy3xk]

+My Life in Gaming Thanks for all your hard work!

[@BladeBlur]

Lucky guy

[@TooBokoo]

I went back and forth on buying a XRGB 3 Framemeister for a couple years. Finally, I realized that with how long I had been pussyfooting around, I could have bought the unit twenty times over and just been done with it. I finally picked one up last month and by God, I couldn't be happier. It was well worth the money to just buy it and be done with it. I never dreamed my old games could look this good and they really do. No regrets here!

[@WiggyBio]

WTF I just typed in google "Framemeister Alternatives" and I got a notification of this video....

[@WiggyBio]

the Framemeister is around £400 in the uk :(

[@MrThetechnologyguy]

God bless you, I thought $400CAN was bad enough

[@JCM217]

+Nemesis TheGreat framemeister is overvalued right now. They're about $100 more than they were about a year ago. Wait it out, they'll go down.

[@Broyale26]

Yes, Wait it out for it to jump another $100 in price.

[@djangofett4879]

The Framemeister is out of production.

[@slot9]

Worth the wait. Some notes: -Ya, sound effects! -Loved the bonus tip graphic+music combination! -Loved the drop shadow (on tryce) on tryces green screen footage -Loved the Karnov cameo! Thanks for the all the visual aids as to how these things actually look in motion. It was great.

[@CedricsSpecialLP]

I am still going to buy a Framemeister. It has no compatibility issues, allows you to tweak some picture settings, it's still fast enough and just looks better in my eyes. I am willing to spend double the price but have not as many issues. Especially with capture cards no matter what if 720p or 1080p.

[@retrogameroom9019]

Ive officially gone back to advanced video enginerring from college. Good videos guys. Keeping my brain cells sparking. Ever need a mainstream media contact message me

[@reddfloyd121]

Anniversary update for OSSC?

[@mailson4526]

Most helpful and well produced program about retrogames and tv setups ive ever seen. Thank you very much and greetings from Brazil.

[@AllieRX]

Amazing job as always!

[@diggiesmalls]

Have you guys thought about doing a separate, more slower paced series? Your videos are exceptionally though out, and have great production, but I often find myself having to rewind because I'm overloaded with info. You guys are extremely knowledgeable, so a lot of stuff you speak too takes a while to process. When you couple that with trying to visually compare the content, and in some cases read info on screen, there is just a bunch of info that all gets slammed together. Great stuff, though, so I appreciate what you guys are doing, and how much time and effort you put into it.

[@KabuTheFox]

been a good 3 years since this, think we need a RGB 105.1 lol

[@coreyoliver3182]

You guys are so awesome and go in so much depth and detail on getting these retro consoles to work great on HDTVs. I currently own at least 12 consoles all hooked up to a regular 36" CRT television I got from goodwill ready to go. Looks just as I remembered and love,however, I choose to retro game on my HDTVs using retroarch on my pc. Just for the CRT filters alone. The scanline filters in retroarch use shaders and take into account things like TV halation and color bleed and I forget sometimes I'm playing on an HDTV. The image is perfect too without having so many cords everywhere. This is side by side with my old CRT playing an original NES and my gaming laptop playing the same game on retroarch(using shader CRT-Easymode-halation). The framemeister can't really touch what a CRT Shader in retroarch can do on the same HDTV. Combine retroarch with a frontend like launchbox...and...well..it's not really fair in terms of image quality. Still, I know and understand why people go the different route. I know eventually my CRT will die and the only option I will have to play the original consoles will have to be with an HDTV scaler. I may also choose to have those 240p consoles on shelves for display and use retroarch. Those shaders man...they look authentic. Black scanlines alone are not enough for me. It's not an accurate CRT look and dims the image. All of us are hanging on for dear life to our beloved old console hardware, which will one day die. Even the chips on our original carts will also degrade and the information will be corrupted. Emulation is our future whether we want it or not. Hopefully we have at least another couple decades before this becomes a real issue. Emulation is viewed as icky to the purists in the retro community, but we will have all to suck it up one day in the future. Retrogaming right now is in a weird place for me personally. I find myself enjoying games more on emulators now than the actual hardware I spent a lot of time and money collecting and getting working right. That setup now is more like a display piece I look at that makes me smile than something I actually turn on and sit in front of. I look forward to having kids and seeing if they play these games on that original hardware with that setup.

[@troyBORG]

I'm using one of those SCART to HDMI things from Amazon, and for the amount I play my SNES. Its good enough for me.

[@Captain_Dark]

Same here my capture card can see it and it looks pretty good to me definitely better than fucking composite my snes looked like shit before I switched to scart

[@MusicmanUY]

Man these videos are A-MAZING. So well edited and informative, I applaud you guys!

[@marcrics]

Seriously considering a framemeister. Currently have og consoles hooked up to a crt and just use a retron on my hdtv. I know it's not people favourite console, but I'm happy with it. The video quality of the thing is pretty damn good :)

[@nintendokings]

With that setup, you don't really need one. It would be overkill by the sounds of it

[@alyx4436]

oh how far we have come........

[@WhiteJarrah]

I have two of those generic SCART scalers. I use one for my SNES and one for my Sega Mega Drive. I recently plugged my PC Engine Duo into it via a composite to SCART adapter and was impressed with the picture quality. The colours were much more vibrant than when plugged into my DVD recorder. But when I plugged my N64 into via S-video, the picture was in black and white. I'm a PAL user. Does it only accept S-video from an NTSC source or are there varients of the generic scaler that handle S-video?

[@colefreddy1]

Switch that generic scart scaler to the PAL singal, It wil automaticaly see it is S-video. I had the same problem

[@WhiteJarrah]

You mean by pressing the button labelled PAL/NTSC? I already tried that a few times, but all it did was change the HDMI output from 60Hz to 50Hz and vice versa. The S-video is still in black and white.

[@JBrothersz]

Great question! I want to know this too!

[@colefreddy1]

I didn't have this problem using a VCR with S-Video, maybe this scart scaler has problems with certain scart scalers

[@WhiteJarrah]

OK, a bit of a tip for anyone who wishes to use S-video with the Generic Scaler. All PAL S-video sources that I've plugged into it come out in Black and White. I've seen some sites advertise this scaler as a "NTSC to PAL SCART converter", so as an experiment I plugged in a Sega Genesis that had been modified to output S-video. I got the colour back, but the picture is very butchered. Full of smeared colours and rainbow artifacts. It seems the device only accepts S-video from NTSC sources, but does a poor job of handling it. Your best bet is to use the Generic Scaler for Composite and RGB sources and use something else for S-video. If you need a great S-video scaler cheaper than the Framemeister, might I recommend the Lenkeng LKV363. It has an input for HDMI, S-video and composite, accepts both PAL and NTSC, outputs in 720p or 1080p at either 50Hz or 60Hz, and yes it handles resolution switches on PS1 games seamlessly through its S-video port. The HDMI also strips copy protection.

[@gs3173]

Thanks for taking the time to make this!

[@NinjaxShadowXx]

I love this channel.

[@decadentia84]

Great video guys, can tell a lot of work went into this one.

[@xandergatien3811]

Ah! Thats one of my favorite songs from Klonoa 2 Soundtrack at "10:59"

[@CosmicEffect]

Awesome work guys, this was a joy to watch and I'll be rewatching many times on the future. Thanks MLiG!

[@Broyale26]

Got a Framemeister on the way for my Sega Saturn! Tired of the terrible image quality on my flatscreen.

[@koopaGG]

I know a lot of people don't have room to get a nice CRT in their gaming space but I think this just goes to show how much easier it is to do just that. While they may be heavy and take up space, it's a much cheaper, less confusing, less involved, and often times better looking solution.

[@MarkFrankJPN]

plus you can still play light gun games.

[@RobbyHuang]

Framemeister can't be beat it seems. I would definitely say just save up for a framemeister, it'll be worth it in the long run. EDIT Nov. 3, 2018: The OSSC has since become the best in my opinion. Just got one and the 5x mode for 240p is just beautiful. Amazing stuff.

[@Sebastian-xy3xk]

Yeah

[@johnnyherrera4519]

agreed

[@RedArremer]

It's still my overall winner after comparing it to the OSSC + VP50. However, I couldn't deny the speed advantage of the latter. Additionally, the way the VP50 scales, you don't have to worry about dialing in an integer-perfect image. You can just zoom to whatever size floats your boat, and it will look as good as it does at any other zoom setting. The downside is the image isn't quite as sharp as the Framemeister, and there's a little bit of ringing. That's the trade-off.

[@Sebastian-xy3xk]

KarbuncleX The Framemiester is better for a new person as it comes with everything needed. I would only recommend an OSSC+VP50 for either a Speedrunner or a person that already has an OSSC.

[@JCM217]

I just keep hoping for a new model :( I love my framemeister, but there are some areas that could really use some work.

[@TVsBen]

Two and a half years on, it's super cool to watch the section on the OSSC and then realize how far both the hardware and the firmware have come. This is a great historical reference, even if the data is kind of not current. Would be cool if you could cover everything in the OSSC now that so much of the caveats have been either addressed or worked around, like 1080p output with like 4x and 5x, the weird SNES sync issues, and so on.

[@mylifeingaming]

[Try4ce] While not entirely comprehensive, I kind of consider our 4K TV episode to be our big OSSC update.

[@TVsBen]

@@mylifeingaming I just saw it and I agree, it's a great update.

[@Waifu4Life]

35 minutes to say "Stick with the XRGB-Mini for now" :p

[@Sebastian-xy3xk]

The OSSC is really nice.... If you play using a PC Monitor....

[@Tw1tchNES]

I was really hoping you were wrong with this assumption, but it pretty much dead on after watching the whole video. TL:DR stick with the xrgb mini for now

[@Waifu4Life]

Murphy M Where exactly did I say that it was a waste of time or made any negative remarks?

[@CyborgNumberBlue]

I'd be careful with this. Elgato capture cards only accept Rec. 601 or 720x480p, rather than the standard 640x480p. Not sure if that's what the OSSC outputs. Further, the fact that the line tripling results in a non standard 720p makes me thing the Elgato wouldn't accept it, either. Hopefully somebody finds out soon.

[@CyborgNumberBlue]

I play on my PVM, but use a signal distributor to output to my SCART to HDMI scaler/Elgato combo and use OBS to record and convert the picture to the correct aspect ratio.

[@CreativeMindEnt]

Great episode guys! Now I'm interested in the OSSC combo setup. Thanks for all the info.

[@tylerschauss1877]

240p x9 = 2160p... 4K? :O

[@Powerman293]

Retain Bucks That's what I'm hoping for from an OSSC 2. And hopefully it has functions like signal conforming and the zoom control from DVDOs built in

[@troyBORG]

Yeah. With my new 4k TV, and only having HDMI inputs I can't wait for that. Right now I'm having my thing output as 720. (240x3=720; 720x3=2160p)

[@ccateni28]

- MIND-BLOWN -

[@wschippr1]

Tyler Schauss I doubt it'd over much benefit over 720p and the TVs internal scaling. You are talking a serious major cost increase for negligible benefits.

[@Ballowax]

Yes, yes it is:D

[@RetroPowerUp]

I've learned so much from your series. Thank you guys so much for putting these videos together. It makes it easier for us newbies to figure out the best setup for our TVs. Thanks again!

[@TheShangryLlamas]

The best way to do it is to get a PVM. Really wish I had one.

[@OrangeGeemer]

I feel like I should be paying for this videos, they are just so well done.

[@ranukehshiga6328]

You should consider a gaming monitor rather than a tv, those have lower input lag around 2-4 milliseconds, and proces the image much better( meaning without the things you usually turn off on a tv)

[@GRUSSNewton]

Really good video! I have the generic scart to HDMI scaler for my retro streams and also the arcade forge scaler for use with my VGA screen with my Saturn tate games. It all depends how far you want to go with your setup and how much room you have to play. If you are lucky to have a dedicated room/space then a CRT/PVM/BVM is my personal recommendation. Great stuff guys! Very interesting to watch

[@connorwesthoff948]

I just watched a 36 minute video to find out that all alternatives are shit and that the true alternative is practically the same price as the thing I was trying to alternate from

[@DhinCardoso]

NAILED IT!

[@pamdidetube]

Thanks for saving me time.

[@joshimatv]

i bought the one at 6:48 two weaks ago for 25 bucks and it works great on every console except nintendo 64 because it comes with a high blurr effect that not even scart can deal with... you should try it out

[@Ballowax]

So Basically what you're saying is that the SCART to HDMI box sucks. The GBS 8200 Sucks, The SCART to Component box sucks, and the DVDO products sucks. Also there is an alternative called the Retrotinx 2X which is 90 bucks and that SCART to Component(aka the CYS2100) is not a pike of crap. You just need an well built RGB SCART cable for your game system of choice, a SCART to RCA audio break out adapter and a CRT with component inputs or an HDTV with native 240p support over it's component video inputs

[@aarongarza4769]

joshimatv “weeks”

[@justinmitchell7115]

Props for using the Grandia II soundtrack (a game of which I plan do upscale with my Dreamcast)

[@Xnerdz1]

I must be the only one in the retro gaming world who doesn't like scan line effects...

[@daleford9157]

Xnerdz nope I'm right there with you.

[@scanlinejunkie]

I like them on a CRT but if playing on an LCD or whatever I've found that I prefer no scanlines.

[@JBalmoreS]

They are usually poorly made, just putting black lines across an LED (or LCD) doesn't come close to a CRT. Usually the brighter the image on screen the more sharp and thin the scan lines are but the backlighting ruins this effect and makes the image look darker with scanlines. This is why I'm just waiting for a cheap OLED before I buy an upscaler.

[@Alex-wq1hp]

I am the same

[@TastyLemon123]

I prefer crisp and modern-looking picture to scanlines

[@TheBacklogOdyssey]

Great video and great information! I've been drooling over a Framemeister for quite some time but haven't been able to pull the trigger. It's exciting to see that a cheaper open source alternative is here and to see how it evolves. Definitely going to have to look in to it. ;)

[@CaptainRufus]

I either emulate or do composite through my Commodore 1084 monitor. Much easier. Ymmv.

[@preamstrikbiz0]

I bought an OSSC 1.6 the other day cuz of this channel , let alone this video. I bought a ypbpr to hdmi out scaler box online and it struggled to hold a signal on my television. Looked into it but, a for sure shot to hve a great image for a ybpbr console such as the Sega Saturn in my instance , go out for a reasonable cost investment into a OSSC . Straightened out my whole issue with the Saturn to my game tv, and every tv IV tested with it since. Now ima try scart cables and see the differences between that and component

[@juliochavez1308]

FIRST!! I've been waiting for this episode :D

[@realevostevo]

Great video guys! I started with a generic scart box but upgraded to the mini after getting more familiar with RGB. Now the old converter is used as a practice board for soldering Lol.

[@tylerrector2782]

Last time I was early Harambe was alive

[@gamerguy425]

my god that intro alone was orgasmic! so well done!

[@wschippr1]

How long till a company makes CRTs for the retro game market? My guess is when decent CRTs become rare.

[@wschippr1]

Extron crosspoint is perfect! I I needed several outputs for my setup, thanks for the info my dudes!

[@AlfaTrion]

Man, this ep must have taken forever to film, capture and edit. I made sure not to skip the ads.

[@animedrawer69]

Framemeister's now cost $700 now that they are discontinued

[@rzeka]

FUCK.

[@JustGameEverything]

Don't know where you're getting this information from. Framemeister is here to stay and they are still available from Solaris Japan for approx $330-$350. They are out of stock and will be available January. I purchased mine 2 weeks ago, arrived from Japan in 3-4 days.

[@animedrawer69]

DeathReaper461 They've announced the end production date for Frameisters will be February 2017. So once stock runs out that will be it. Presumably they will probably have a product to replace it hopefully. I was going by prices on ebay. Glad you can still get it for "cheap" www.micomsoft.co.jp/micomsoft_news3.htm

[@JustGameEverything]

I guess they are preparing for their new competitor (OSSC).

[@Charlie97L]

They've said they planned enough stock for through the entirety of 2017, at least.

[@RedLP5000S]

I think I'm sold on the OSSC. I would primarily use it for my Neo Geo AES and Turbo Duo. I already have the Retron 5 for the 16-bit consoles. Awesome in depth video guys!

[@WhiteJarrah]

6:45 Would you believe it!? Bob from RetroRGB BLOCKED me from his KZbin channel for reporting better mileage with that generic upscaler than he got! He was claiming that he was getting 7+ frames of lag and even vertical flickering during screen scrolling. I went into the comments stating that I was able to get 0.7 to 1.5 frames of lag using the 240p Test Suite and never had the issue with vertical flicker. I even posted a link to this video concerning Corey's lag. Hell, I even AGREED with him that the scaler was a good solution for games that switch between 240p and 480i. And what's Bob do? He casts aspersions on my video expertise, accuses me of "trolling" and spreading "disinformation", and blocks me! What a self-righteous prick. Using his logic, Corey and Try would be blocked if they posted what they said about this scaler in the comments of his video.

[@snookers5123]

I have a generic one as well, and doing the manual test on the 240p test suite always nets me 0.5 to 2 frames, which says more about my reaction times than the scaler itself. IMO it just boils down to your tv or monitor's upscaling. My PC's monitor with a 1ms response time nets me these times, while my TV fares a lot worse.

[@RikkiSan1]

Yeah I've had the generic one as well and honestly I have never had any major problems with it. The picture quality is good and I don't really notice any lag. I know there are better upscalers out there but for the price and being able to play retro consoles on modern Tv's, its not that bad. I think it's kinda messed up how a lot of video quality guys think that they are the final word when it comes to which product people should use.

[@jimmyhopkins1]

that is not a good look , ouch

[@WhiteJarrah]

@trevoratkins9965 For some reason my comment keep disappearing. I'll try again. It has escalated far beyond that. After he published that second video and somebody shred it in a Facebook group, I left a Facebook comment stating that he blocked me after I reported better mileage. Bob responded on Twitter by falsely alleging that I had 'stalked him' onto other forums and said that I was a 'Flat Earther'. Both are complete lies. I never spoke to him again after he blocked me on his first video, let alone stalked him. And Flat Earthers are not welcome on my channel. These lies resulted in my being kicked off the Framemeister & OSSC Facebook group.

[@HeavySandwichguy]

Thanks to you guys, i'm currently enjoying my ossc with my sega genesis. Thanks guys!

[@pennyandrews3292]

I suddenly feel very grateful that we were too cheap to upgrade to a full HDTV all these years... my old Plasma from 2006 handles 480p over component video almost perfectly, and it even has D-Sub input. I still have a CRT in the bedroom for my SNES and my VCR. Having to deal with equipment that won't take anything but HDMI sounds like a nightmare, because HDMI inputs pretty much never let you bypass the display's internal scaling. Nearly everything I own is component or composite, and the new TVs would make it look horrible.

[@djangofett4879]

My 2015 Samsung smart TV does 480p really well, PS2 looks excellent. 480p isn't the issue as its widely supported. 240p is the issue because its support is almost non existent.

[@mat4547]

A fantastic review as always. I have a slg in a box and apart from some snow in the image it has been a great workhorse. Yes a cheaper option,but I can't fault it for day to day play. I just couldn't justify the frameisters price for my setup. I did also start with the scart to hdmi scaler that Cory mentioned which is a great starting point in rgb to modern display.

[@OkamiiSenpai]

Holy fuck I need to stop watching these videos, you're going to make me go back to broke

[@davidv4018]

I don't have consoles, nor crts. But i find these videos super informative.

[@Gamerguy8585]

And framemeister causes lag you should probably mention that

[@mylifeingaming]

+Gamerguy8585 [Try4ce] We do mention its lag several times. It has about 1.5 frames, plus more depending on your TV. It generally will be faster than plugging directly into an HDTV regardless. It's not the fastest, but it is very fast.

[@ArtemioUrbina]

they did

[@Gamerguy8585]

+Artemio Urbina where

[@ArtemioUrbina]

+Gamerguy8585 at 27:58 and at least once more during the video. I guess you didn't watch it?

[@Sebastian-xy3xk]

1.5 Frames of lag is very very hard to notice during regular play (I don't know if it is even possible to notice and I'm lag sensitive). I'd think about it more if you are a Speedrunner as they have to be measured down to the Frame.

[@RandomisedGamingYouTube]

This is a great video guide for the options currently available and this covers in detail a lot of the problems you can face using these devices. Worth noting there are three major TV standards of PAL, NTSC & SECAM (France standard). That said you do slightly gloss over the issues with the framemeister. Poor handling of 480p means its not the best scaler for the Dreamcast, PlayStation 2, Gamecube, Wii or Original Xbox and for the cost you expect it to be able to handle those consoles to the highest ability as all support 480p and 720p for some games in the Xbox's case. Another point that should have been explained is that not all games work with all scalers even some titles refuses to work with any scaler at all. This can be an issue for some PAL developed games which were designed to use set resolutions in 576i. A case and point of this is Snake Rattle 'n Roll on the Mega Drive, which when run at 50hz refused point blank to work with almost any LCD TV or capture device we tried, in fact it only appeared to work on a PAL CRT or devices that could rescale PAL sources. Users should keep this in mind with any scaler, as some games just point blank will not work. PAL users should also check that any scaler they purchase supports 50hz if they plan on using PAL consoles with it, we used a mix of both NTSC and PAL consoles for our videos. While it won't be an issue for folks in the USA, some PAL games will not run at 60hz, so you will need a 50hz scaler to capture and play some games. Example of some of the issues of 50hz/60hz can be seen in our Mega Drive: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHrRaqyljLGClbc and Sega Saturn videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e36tp6pjr5yHodk While you have included it in other videos a quick mention of the PlayStation 3 backwards PS1 disc support and the Wii U, Wii disc support is worth a mention as they allow older games to be played on HDMI. We've also tired a mix of scalers to see their results, the generic scaler is great as a cheap way to capture RGB as most capture devices even in Europe don't direct support RGB Scart so require some form of converter. As you say the picture's not great but it does the job, it does allow for HDMI scaling as we used it to scale a 720p PlayStation 3 game up to 1080p such as with this Destiny video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/noXFmZaKitSJqrs Far better for taking screenshots as when paused the sharp edges of the image return, it also supports Secam. From our own experience S-Video to Scart converters are best avoid as they normally don't correctly convert the signal over to composite. Using them in the past on CRT's and LCDs normally see the picture converted to black and white and you would likely get the same rainbow effect on the PS2 even if you just directly plugged it into a scart port on any LCD TV. While the Framemeister and DVDO look to be far better scalers for the PSP, we did try the LKV8000 it's better than doing a straight, upscaler but there is a fair about of blur and it doesn't correct scale smaller elements such as text: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYmpn5d8ZbVqnNk We've tried a couple of VGA scalers with the Dreamcast neither of them that expensive the first one we used for our earlier videos included some artefacts and noise in the background of the picture: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3bVi6SNaZtgra8 but the second one give a perfect picture with also no errors and removed the issues seen in the previous one and we've used it for all our later Dreamcast videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJ_IY42hasqCnKs On the OSSC it was mentioned on a few sites including one of the sites you linked in the video that line tripling doesn't work on PAL. Quoting them directly “PAL 50Hz signals are accepted. For 288p and 576i signals you get a 576p50 output. Line tripling isn't available for PAL sources.” retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ossc.html Again good video, right now it's fair to say there isn't an all in one perfect scaler at this point while the framemeister is very good. It's still not perfect and there is still room for a better retro console HD upscaler on the market.

[@VideogameBucko]

Nice work guys :) We're still working on the SNES issue and I've got some new OSSC features to discuss on the live stream.

[@BSAElectronics702]

Another brilliant episode, you guys are amazing! time to slide oner to Patreon and drop a roll of quarters 😊

[@CarcinogenSDA]

Will you guys make a short video about the particulars of how to handle games with resolution switches? The GBS8200 seems to be the solution.

[@ryanamberger]

One line had me think of something. Could you imagine a television manufacturer making a TV that is geared toward scaling retro consoles properly with a crap ton of inputs to keep the need for wire filled setups unnecessary. Would he so so cool.

[@sparksterz]

Wow...a lot of content for a 100 series :P Keep up the good work!

[@triple_lei]

Another great video! I have two DVDO Edge scalers myself. Love those things. I originally bought one to correct the PSP picture when outputting via component, to be able to capture at 240p _at all,_ and to capture pre-HD systems in 720p60. It's how I connect my Dreamcast via VGA and RGB SCART and the Edge does a good job zooming and stretching out the overscan. I also enjoy the DVDO Edge's input switching capabilities, but I had to turn auto-switching off because bad things can happen when playing games that switch resolutions. I'll admit I still wanted a Framemeister to get the _real_ best best, but now with the OSSC it looks like I'll be sitting pretty; I'll basically be getting the picture quality and zooming options of the Framemeister with less lag!

[@mylifeingaming]

+Justin Sison [Try4ce] Yeah! If you already have an Edge, you're poised to get more out of the OSSC than most people! Definitely get on that wait list!

[@GoldenGateNum9]

The best gaming channel on KZbin ❤

[@danielstrzel2271]

Yes! I've been waiting for this made my Saturday morning Thank you!

[@HockeyCrab]

Oh god, I have been waiting for this episode for months

[@WhiteJarrah]

8:11 OK, I did some tests with my PAL SCPH-9002 model of PS1. I'm using the Generic upscaler and the Luma as Sync cable from Retro Gaming Cables. When I try to play a PlayStation game, even a game that doesn't switch from 288p to 576i, the console switches from PAL to NTSC and back to PAL again. Last night, I did a little experiment. I took the official composite AV cables, plugged them into a composite to SCART adapter and then plugged the adapter into the upscaler. The exact same thing happened. As far as I can tell, this issue is common to ALL fat PAL models of PlayStation. Today I brought my upscaler to my local Gametraders shop and they let me test the consoles they were selling. They had a SCPH-1002, a SCPH-5502 and a SCPH-7502. Every one had the same problem as mine. Just before the cutscene, the console switched from PAL to NTSC and PAL again. I cannot confirm if this problem is also prevalent with PSone slim consoles. The Gametraders had a few models for sale, but no power cords. The guy I spoke to from Retro Gaming Cables tells me they test all their cables with a PSone slim. I've asked him to test Driver, hasn't written back. I can confirm though that the PS2 doesn't switch between PAL and NTSC just before the cutscene. The PSone was released around the same time as the PS2. Maybe it also doesn't have this problem. Again, I haven't yet been able to test the PSone. Is there any way to turn off the Generic Scaler's on screen messages? This PAL to NTSC to PAL switch wouldn't be a problem if only the on screen messages didn't appear. When the switch happens, the message pops up in the bottom left corner on the screen and remains there for about five seconds into the cutscene. And when using my Elgato Game Capture HD, these on screen messages are captured with the recording.

[@joshdieckmann595]

Great video, and very informative! I don't have as much need for a product like this ATM because I have an older Sony WEGA rear-projection LCD, and it does 240p and 480i reasonably well already, though not without a bit of occasional color weirdness. Still, when I'm ready to upgrade to a larger TV, or this thing finally kicks the bucket, this kind of info will be indispensable. I appreciate the depth you went into! I'm thinking about maybe the OSSC to get a better picture from stuff like my JVC X'Eye, or a PC Engine, or maybe even my Game Cube. You've just earned a subscriber & Twitter follower!

[@GameEscape]

I am going to preface this comment by saying that I really enjoyed this video and appreciate the immense amount work that went into making it. That having been said, I have to agree with +Ted Soto on the issue of upscalers. While it is a fascinating niche within the hobby and seems to be one of the last, unexplored avenues for content creators on KZbin and retro gaming enthusiasts, to what degree is devoting time and money to all of this equipment just a kind of technical masturbation for its own sake? I would, personally, prefer to use the money that I could spend on a Framemeister or all of these other solutions to just buy a rare game and enjoy it on an old CRT or, if possible, on emulation via my main tv or PC monitor. I would rather devote what free time I have to actually playing games rather than modding consoles and wiring up new equipment just to eek out moderate improvements in fidelity and response time. As long as the latter is within a reasonable tolerance, I don't care about stretched pixels or other distortions. To me, the essence of retro gaming resides in the content and not within the elaborate technical duplication of older standards on newer technology. I am curious what other gamers think.

[@adimifus]

Obviously the best possible route would be to simply get an old CRT, preferably a Trinitron or B/PVM monitor. However, there are obvious downsides to this. First, CRTs are huge. At least, compared to modern flat panel displays. Some people don't want to give up the space required for such a display in addition to a more modern display they'll most likely have for other purposes. Second, even though CRTs can be relatively cheap (or free), finding one at all can be a chore. I check Craigslist in my area every so often just to see what pops up, and I've only seen a PVM listed once (which I nabbed up). Consumer Trinitrons are more common, but they can be a huge pain to move. Especially the larger ones. Third, most new displays aren't designed to display this kind of material. Most people don't want their DVDs to look all blocky when scaled up to HD resolutions, so the scaling is softened more often than not. Not to mention improper handling of 240p. In addition, legacy inputs like s-video and composite are becoming less and less common on newer displays (especially cheaper ones) so being able to convert them to hdmi is rather important, even if the other advantages of a scaler don't matter much. For me, a CRT is absolutely essential for retro gaming. Old game consoles were designed to be played on them, so they will undoubtedly look and play best on them. Light gun games, for example, will likely never work with the current displays technology. But because they can be a hassle for some people, scalers can provide a means to play their older consoles on modern displays at nearly the same visual quality. That's how I see it, at least.

[@adimifus]

But you're absolutely in the end. The market for scalers for this purpose is very niche. Otherwise they'd be much cheaper due to demand. Many people will be more than happy hooking their games up to an old CRT with only composite (or RF!), and that's fine.

[@Nitroxity]

Not necessarily a fix for the Framemeister's few issues, but I think we are a few years off, even a decade off, from "perfect" scaling (at least as perfect as it can get). Still, I think some of these are really cool alternatives, ESPECIALLY the OSSC. I look forward to future episodes, especially one about the Game Boy family!

[@brandonhowes5364]

Bought a broken OSSC V1.6 off of eBay for $45 that was not working due to a 12v power supply being plugged into it, replaced 3 diodes and it is now working. Definitely a great option if you can find a fixable broken ossc

[@jaskwadrata]

Great episode guys - very informative and professionally presented, thanks for Your work and keep it up!

[@Arek_1]

Ah, I was waiting for this episode. I can't wait for my OSSC to be ready! Although phonedork covered various PVMs and BVMs, have you guys considered making a video covering multisync PC CRT monitors? They, unlike CRT TVs, support higher resolutions such as 480p. And they are generally more affordable than PVMs and BVMs.

[@homejonny9326]

This introductory song is soo epic

[@adamw2848]

Been waiting awhile for new info before deciding what to do for an upscale. I received an email this week about buying the OSSC. Even with the pound being down right now, if you manage to snag an order it's still over $200USD, and that's without the optical output add-on. While I applaud the open source aspect, I don't want to spend time tinkering with whatever scaler and it becoming a hobby in of itself chasing features, etc. If I am going to spend that much, might as well just get a Framemeister, I've decided. Known quality device, lots of features and options, and the price isn't that significant a difference to settle for the OSSC.

[@bennahum9642]

Great video, useful as always and the production value never ceased to amaze. As much as I root for the relatively low cost open source projects (especially when compared to the cold Micomsoft), seeing this, I think the XRGB Mini is still the way to go. The OSSC's method of going off-spec doesn't put me at ease and will probably bother people who have "Tweaking OCD" (I'm looking at you Bob). Overall, I think stability and compatibility is more important than speed, customization and even quality. Also, I 100% agree that the cheap 30$ scaler is not as bad as some say and is way better than going composite. Resolution switching on the fly is still a bummer though.

[@WhiteJarrah]

This may sound like a stupid question, but have you tried the Generic Scaler as a scaling partner for the OSSC? It has a HDMI input next to its SCART input. There's a HDMI upscaler for the PSP. It sends the YPbPr through a D-Sub 9 cable to a little box that upscales it to HDMI. It's called the Lenkeng LKV8000. I'm not sure it is an actual scaler or line multiplier, but my TV and Elgato wouldn't accept its 1080p output. The 720p mode worked beautifully, but whenever I switched to 1080p the TV would go to a black screen with an "unsupported format" error message. As an experiment, I plugged the LKV8000 into the HDMI input on the generic scaler to see if it would accept the 1080p output - it did! So maybe a combination of the OSSC and the Generic Scaler is the solution some people are looking for? From what you're saying in the video, I understand that the OSSC does a great job of converting 240p and 288p into 480p and 576p respectively, has the option of deinterlacing 480i and 576i, and offers line tripling for 240p to 720p. But the 720p line triple mode can be fiddly and may require a scaling partner. And although the OSSC handles 240/288p to 480/576i switches better than the Framemeister, the generic scaler handles the switch better. Maybe the ideal set up would be to feed normal 240p content into the OSSC which in turn goes into the Generic scaler via HDMI to normalize the 720p line triple mode, and for anything that switches resolutions use the SCART input on the Generic Scaler. It might make for a more cost effective scaling partner than the DVDOs.