Precision Matthews PM-728VT vs PM-25MV Milling Machine Comparison

[@RonPoutre]

I just ordered the PM-728VT DRO today. It will be my first mill almost bought a Bridgeport the other day and decided I have enough projects going on. I am in the process of restoring an SB10L I have an Atlas 618 I restored a few years ago. I went for the PM-728-VT because It's light, it runs on 110v, its ready to run and made in Taiwan not China. I'll get a Bridgeport in 9 years when i retire, leave California and buy my retirement home. Then I'll CNC the 728. I ordered up a brand new Kurt DX4 vise today for it, along with a bunch of other stuff. Spent a lot of money today. lol Thanks for the vid Franco!!!

[@unionse7en]

good torsion test, more scientific that most anyway!

[@WHJeffB]

Cool cats! Appreciate the comparison video on the two mills... I've been looking at purchasing a medium-ish bench mill and want something robust/rigid, with good accuracy. I've seen your video no the PM-25MV and had contemplated that due to cost, but after watching this video, as well as a few others on the 728MV, I think that's the way to go. It appears to be a solid machine for the money, and looks to be of a higher build quality than the Grizzly equivalent. Regarding backlash... That can easily be worked around, I've used Bridgeport's with a huge amount of backlash and it's manageable. The best and most obvious way is to install a DRO, gives you absolute position, regardless of the amount of backlash. I'd much rather have smooth travel in the three axis'... Great walk around of the machine... Just have to figure out what I want to sell so I can use the money to buy one!

[@BruceDWolcott]

What do you use your mills for?

[@giantpune]

3:45 - This bit me in the butt today. I spent 20 minutes getting the chip tray and mill all bolted down on the stand. Then went to start tramming it in and there's 4 thou of lean i wanted to shim out of the column. On the 728vt, that means I have to unbolt everything from the stand and hoist the thing up in the air to access those bolts. Kinda disappointed that the "ultra precision" model is way more out of whack than my harbor freight mill was.

[@ronc249]

What was the table tram in the Y direction on the PM-728VT? I have been considering buying one but was concerned because the column is bolted on from the bottom of the machine and would make it difficult to adjust or shim.

[@TimothyHall13]

Thanks @Franco! 60"x30" is really a reasonable size for the such a nice machine.

[@CobraReady]

Thank you, this is the exact video I was looking for.

[@paulgarrigues5069]

Nice video, I use a similar method to check if gibs need adjustment, make small adjustments & notate feel of movement in between adjustments.

[@tommiller4490]

You and I have the same cats! I feel like I'm in the matrix.

[@thenetwerx]

Is your long term plan to retire (sell) the 25?

[@brucestarr4438]

Another difference, with the PM-25MV you can get away with a 110V 15A service. With the PM-728VT you need a dedicated 110V 20A circuit for it. I would have to upgrade my electrical service to run the PM-728VT in my garage. Just something else you need to factor into the equation. Your Russian Blue is not as skittish as ours is.

[@FrancoCNC]

Tucker, the all grey fellow, has very strong hunting instincts - he won't eat his food unless you play with him first. Winston, on the other hand, is very lazy and friendly.

[@brucestarr4438]

@@FrancoCNC Tucker looks like he is a Russian Blue breed. They have some interesting characteristics. We got our girl as a kitten from the shelter. You don't see many of them there and we were lucky in our timing.

[@MollerFarm]

came for the mills, subscribed for the cats :)

[@clort123]

What a nerd! Thanks for knowing all this and having two cats

[@thenetwerx]

Just for the hell of it I’d like to see that twist test on a full size Bridgeport mill. I’d expect zero deflection of course given the mass of the castings.

[@FrancoCNC]

I did perform this experiment on a Bridgeport mill (using the exact same bungee cord). There was very little displacement - less than .0005" which is no surprise considering the size/weight of the machine as well as the construction. Bench top mills are great and many of us wouldn't have a mill in our garage or basement if it weren't for them. But, when it comes to machine tools, bigger is usually better.

[@thenetwerx]

@@FrancoCNC It's a great test and really opened my eyes to what these little machines are. I found a new-in-the-crate PM-25MV on craigslist that I almost snagged. Guy bought it with the intention of doing a CNC conversion but never even unpacked the machine. Unfortunately someone beat me to it. Maybe a blessing in disguise though after seeing this video. The extra rigidity in the 28 over any distance on a part would be a lot of improved tolerance! I'm still shopping for and weighing the used Bridgeport option though.

[@FrancoCNC]

@@thenetwerx Cool. I've thought about using a knee mill as a starting point for a CNC conversion. The problem is the big heavy knee can be problematic when you try to make it the Z-axis. You don't see very many "real" CNC machines that use that design. They generally put the Z-axis on the quill of a knee mill but then you have limited travel.

[@thenetwerx]

Franco yep, you are correct. I wouldn’t convert it to CNC. It would be for manually machining larger, heavier one-off projects that simply won’t fit on a bench top mill or require more horsepower and rigidity. In an ideal world I’d have the space in my garage and funds to have both a Bridgeport and a nice CNC mini mill. BTW, have you watched any of the Titans of CNC Academy video series?

[@ikbendusan]

@@FrancoCNC you could perhaps add gas struts to the knee

[@nickfrancola273]

Why are you holding tucker and Winston

[@yota4004]

pulling on the metal cover is different than pulling on the spindle isn't it?

[@VEGA3alp]

I have converted a PM25 to cnc and acknowledge it's shortcomings by taking smaller cuts and plenty of them. You don't have to wind any wheels, hopefully you just have to watch it do the job.

[@anthonyortiz7924]

Hey Phil, in hindsight would you have done anything different, like perhaps upgrade to a newer model for cnc, or are you happy with the PM25 cnc?

[@VEGA3alp]

@@anthonyortiz7924 well bigger is nearly always better, but I'm pretty happy with it. I did go a bit overboard with the power of the stepper drivers though, turns out that I could have got away with controlling the whole machine with a gecko G540 on 48volts according to "the Corvette guy" channel. Anyway I find it a handy machine to have for jobs that are too heavy for my routers.

[@kevinkeith2927]

Hello, Franco. What CNC Kit did you use for the PM-25 Milling Machine? Thank you.

[@davinwatkins22]

What is the up and down buttons on the fine feed drop for

[@mrmax1984]

I saw your craigslist ad in which you're selling the 728VT. Any particular reason you opted to keep the PM-25MV over the 728VT? I was looking at the PM-25MV as potentially my first milling machine (no plans to CNC at this time), but your listing has me intrigued.

[@FrancoCNC]

The PM728VT is a good machine - better than the PM25MV. Truth be told, the PM25MV may be the next item to hit the auction block. I'm dealing with some changing circumstances that require me to spend less time in the garage and more time focusing on other things.

[@anthonycash4609]

Wow good video. I need some help please. I know that this video is 2 years old. But I just received my PM 728 VT milling machine December the 6th. I have not been able to get in touch with anyone at precision mathews due to the holidays. Mine has 800 thousandth back lash in the X axis which is unacceptable to me. In your video you said you could adjust it out. Please tell me how. Thanks in advance for any help you can throw my way.

[@FrancoCNC]

That is quite a bit - over 3/4 of an inch. I would look at the collars - it is possible that the may not be assembled correctly. The nut under the saddle should have set screws on it (or something like that) to spread them apart to take up some of the backlash. But, it sounds to me like there is something loose or not assembled correctly.

[@anthonycash4609]

@@FrancoCNC thanks for the advice. Got in touch with precision Mathews today. I pulled the table off and found that the brass nut for the cross slide screw was the problem. One screw was backed completely out and the other was hardly even started. When I would move the table back and forth the brass block was moving with it causing all the back lash problems. Got it tighten back up and all is good now with no back lash. Thanks for the help.

[@FrancoCNC]

@@anthonycash4609 I'm glad I could help.

[@aaronfaust9548]

Thank you. You help make my decision. 728 it is

[@tonysplace8009]

Nice job and nice camera work 👍! I'm saving up for that 728

[@sto2779]

PM-728VT is $1K more than the PM-25MV, with your honest opinion you think it's worth it when it comes to precision and tolerance for ease of usage with a CNC? Thanks.

[@FrancoCNC]

Aside from the smaller size, the PM-25MV is just as good under CNC control as the PM-728VT.

[@sto2779]

@@FrancoCNC Thanks for the reply. Also what about your opinions between PM-25MV and G0704 under CNC? The G0704 seems to be about $500 lower now. Would the PM-25MV be much better for $500 extra?

[@FrancoCNC]

@@sto2779 If it were me, I'd buy the PM. But, I'm sure the Grizzly would also do fine. But, I do believe the PM is better than the Grizzly and the people who run the show at PM are super cool. You'll get better customer service from them.

[@ADBBuild]

Are all the mating surfaces of the ways scraped? In pictures, it looked like just the x-axis was scraped.

[@addertooth1]

I just got a 728. I can confirm that ONLY the X axis is scraped. I felt the description could have been more clear.

[@k4kfh]

Does their stand have a hole underneath where the column mounts so you can get to the bolts? Or do you have to lift the mill off the stand in order to get to those bolts? Also, did you have to shim the column at all to tram it (or did you even worry with that)?

[@FrancoCNC]

Hi. There are no holes in the stand. I've not had to shim anything to tram in these mills. But, that is not a promise that you won't have to shim yours to make it "perfect".

[@durangotang1681]

WhAt was the runout on your pm25?

[@tymz-r-achangin]

If you have column twist, youre being too aggressive into your cut. Just take the cut slower and there's not going to be that .001 - .002 twist of the column

[@giantpune]

Just ordered my PM-728vt to replace the harbor freight mill. The DRO model is on back order for a couple weeks which gives me time to make it a spot. I'm trying to figure out where in the garage it will sit when it finally gets here. Can you measure how tall the blue stand is and how far up from the floor is the bottom of the table or X axis crank or whatever sits lower? Basically, I'm trying to figure out if this can sit beside my existing work bench and be tall enough for the table to overhang over my work bench if that makes sense.

[@3dmakerzone75]

Good comparison. I'm going to try that torsion test on my PM30.

[@csxal]

Land Mark, I was going to reach out to you with some questions about your PM30 conversion and I can’t find the video you replied to me with info. Hope you see this. Thanks Al

[@perchowski3021]

So glad u did this! About to buy a mill and wanna get a Precision Matthews.. its gonna be the PM-25, PM-27V, and PM-28. Gonna be my first mill I know nothing lol.. figured I'd get the bigger one since all the reading I've done says to get the biggest you can afford. Or even the biggest you cant afford lol..

[@3dmakerzone75]

Don't overlook the PM30-MV. The PM728 does have some nice features like built in oiling of the ways, worm gear adjustable head tilt, better bearings, and possibly better finished ways to name a few. However the PM30 has a 2 HP motor, larger work surface and 160 lbs more weight. If I had it to do over it would be hard to choose.

[@909Kodak]

Your column distortion test is very much subject to backlash. Like you said it’s all in the setup. Same test while making a “heavy” cut might be a better test. Having sad that that the pm 727v beats them both for that size of mill.

[@mikenorman3136]

Can you tell me what the main decisions you made to go PM over Grizzly or other similar brands. I have a G0704 and a G0720R that are both CNC. I’m looking for a good machine to keep as manual now. BTW, great torsional displacement comparison. If you can move the heads .002” with a bungee that’s wild! Imagine the displacement taking a decent sized cut. I have to do that test on my machines.

[@FrancoCNC]

Grizzly is a great company and I've purchased a lot of items from them. I had a G0704 mill. I feel the quality of the PM stuff is better. PM is also a smaller company and they seem to have really good customer service. Truth be told, nearly every machine is going to have some kind of displacement under load. The other day, I grabbed a hold of a Makino CNC milling machine while an indicator was on the spindle and I could push it around several tenths (.0001") without too much effort. Honestly, the best test for any machine is to make a part. If you can hold your tolerances and get good finishes, then you are doing great!

[@jakers785]

This may be a stupid question and for that I apologize, After a CNC conversion do you still have the ability to use the machine manually Just a beginner trying to understand better thanks

[@adubz54]

depends on the kit tbh

[@BM-jy6cb]

Somehow, I don't think I would be able to persuade my wife to film me justifying spending a few grand on a new mill! Nice videos though. Thanks for posting.

[@catherineharris4746]

Smack-er! Jk😂maybe😂😂😂👍👍

[@PA-Tammy]

I looked at both and for the money I got the PM-932v just for the size and HP

[@perchowski3021]

So is there anything the 728 can do that the 25 cant, other than work on bigger pieces and deeper cuts/more precise? I wanted to get a mill for hobby gunsmithing. I've made a few 80% AR lowers as well as glock/polymer 80 lowers. I've been wanting to build a 1911 but didnt want to buy a bunch of special jigs and tools that are only good for 1911s so figured I could get a mill that I could use for other parts as well, for example maybe some parts for my motorcycle or something. For my uses, do you think the PM-25 would be a good choice or would u recommend the 727V or the 728? After watching your comparison video, are the only differences size/weight/precision of parts and rigidity for the most part or is there a job that the 728 can do that the 25 cant without major changes ? Do you think the PM 25 is precise enough to cut the rails on steel 80% 1911 frames, as well as steel slides? Just want to make sure I get a machine that's capable/precise enough to cut rails in a steel 1911 frame which is probably the hardest metal I'd work with so just want to be sure its capable to cut nice, straight and even lines. Thank you for any feedback you can give me, I really appreciate it! Seems like the 728 will be a bit more precise as well as able to work on bigger projects but doesnt seem that I would need something like that for what I want to use it for.

[@FrancoCNC]

Hi. I think the PM-25MV would work just fine. You'll just have to make sure you don't push the smaller machine out of it's "comfort zone". But, if you can afford the bigger machine, you won't regret it.

[@perchowski3021]

@sammy awesome, thanks! Definitely reassuring to hear coming from people that actually own the machine.

[@perchowski3021]

@@FrancoCNC Just ordered the 728 last weekend. Deciding factor was thinking about all the "made in China" items I've bought over the years, most stuff cheaper clones of things and Chinese items almost always have low quality fitting, low quality material, or low quality assembly, usually thought is 2 of the 3 listed lol. So figured it would be best to put all my money toward the mill and vice, and since its backordered thatll give me time to save for a month or 2 for some tooling. Actually started to consider the PM-833V-T, but that would have been really pushing it considering the space I have and I'd also have to get a 220V electrical setup so decided the 728 was the best for my circumstances. Cant wait until it arrives! Hoping I learn more between now and then about setting it up and get all the guages and indicators necessary to set it up properly!

[@giantpune]

@@perchowski3021 I got the chinese mill in 2018. It was 1/10 the cost of this 728VT. It was fine for getting into the hobby. After a pretty easy life with a couple hundred hours on it, the chinese mill up and died on me. I was in the middle of milling a washer. A grade 8 washer from lowes, about 1/8" thick. The little china mill just quit mid-cut. Best as I can tell, its the motor that quit working. It runs about 1/2 the cost of the machine to buy a new motor from LMS and my 90 day warranty is up. I was pretty much sold on something from precision matthews. The extra 2yr worth of warranty is really what pushed me to the 728 over the 25. Hopefully they actually honor it without any funny business like requiring you to ship the entire mill back to get any service.

[@jbaileyknives7282]

Will the pm25 handle milling small slots through a 1/2" piece of stainless steel if you just take it slow with good end mills?

[@CNC4XR7]

Thanks For the Info!

[@harlech2]

Thanks for the video!

[@Z-add]

Precision mathews should make a special "cnc ready" machine. One that is designed to be user upgraded to a cnc mill as easy as possible.

[@lastofthetokra]

Iv been thinking the same thing. I don't know why they couldn't import a machine with ball screws and motor mounts. It would be a great value for us.

[@jimkramer4001]

they do, but you have to wait. www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-728v-t-cncballscrewkit/

[@mrechbreger]

I will take your test as a reference thanks! :-)

[@jimkramer4001]

Thanks for doing this. My 728 should be delivered today :) Now to see if it does have more room for ball nuts, and what size screws to get. Can't wait till end of July for the PM 'kit' so planning on DIYing it.

[@CarlPugh]

Well done! Love your cats!

[@MilanDupal]

Great compare. Thank you.

[@quickdrawmcgraw4394]

Thanks for the videos. Dont deploy those cats on us ease

[@catherineharris4746]

Outstanding!👍👍👍

[@glenfeane2265]

Them machines are now good . Bridge port style are better your one brakes at the ways over time get your money back

[@David_Best]

I would not enjoy trying to tram the column on the 728 with the bolts under the base casting. Terrible design.

[@coffeeisthepathtovictory1290]

$2,400 for the PM 728 + taxes + shipping + stand + tooling....

[@takisbakalis]

I see cats I press like

[@VikramSingh-hf5il]

Price in India

[@OldManPaul]

My cat would have bitten me 5 times!

[@jFloRED]

Hahaha funny how things happen. Inside joke

[@VanguardSys]

your audio is no good