Small Milling Machine Improvements - PM-728VT

[@d.j.roberts187]

By far… best instructor for small machine shop enthusiasts.. and no shame on Chinese equipment. Thanks for the videos

[@DavidMathis-c8v]

Dude I have 2 cnc haas mills, 1 cnc haas lathe, a serdi Valve seat cutting machine, honning machines, grinding machines, boring machines a full damned machine shop and so often I learn better info faster from her and her humbal mimi machine shop than I do from some of the other blowhard youtube machinest channels. Thanks Quin!

[@MetalMaggot46]

Since I started my hobby machining journey, and subscribing to your, and many other hobby machining channels, I got a job at a very large company with a plastics division. Not moulding. Machining. I work at a plastics machine shop, as the toolmaker. I get to cut all kinds of materials that I could never hope to afford in my home shop including high performance alloys for work/toolholding and the parts themselves which, despite being plastics, are more difficult to machine than most metals. I can comfortably take .400" to .600" (at 100-300ipm) DOC on our smallest mill in 6061 but some of the plastics we work with I dare not exceed .050" It really puts into perspective the massive chasm between hobby machining and production cnc machining and watching this video I have to remind myself that even your fairly large "small mill" isn't even 1/100th the weight of our smallest mill (Haas TM-1) and that .060 in steel for these little buggers is a decent cut. Despite all that I still come back to my little 21"x7" manual mill and cut stuff up at home. Thanks for the content and keep on keepin on

[@nt2080]

Another trick for hard/hardened steels (which we use to open out ring gear holes in hardened gears, and to drill out stripped set/grub screws), and is also fairly cheap, is masonary bits - grind the tungsten tip at a sharper point/edge and they can chew through a lot of hard materials

[@georgedennison3338]

The edge on masonary bits is intentionally dull so the bit can grind through the rock or composite, instead of trying to shear, as sharp bits do in metal/wood. I've been using a worn out diamond masonry saw blade from my wet tile saw in an old Skil 77 worm drive as a metal saw for 10-15 yrs. Added an air hose for cooling, & it's a slag makin' monster. Cuts fast in 1/4" & under, maxs out at 3/8+". Even SS!

[@theprojectproject01]

Masonry drills are great for drilling in Lexan and other hard plastics, too. Just don't expect a real round and precise hole.

[@DougBartosh]

Great job!! I am a just retired machinist, sold my shop and setting up a home shop and like your site! I am 69 years old and have been machining since I was 8 years old! I have learned alot of tricks from you! Thank You and keep up the great work. Doug from Pa.

[@thetrevor861]

Didn't understand the horseshoe reference the first time, but later, all became clear ! Nice one !

[@kyfho47]

Would LOVE to see PM Research offer a PM-728VT milling machine with QuinnPro upgrades based on all the little "niggling" details that you have solved.

[@brianbecher5781]

Seriously the best opening line of ANY KZbin video I've ever seen! 🤣

[@willjosephson]

Thanks for the reminder to be accurate where accuracy matters, and not chase tenths when it doesn't.

[@jimsvideos7201]

I'm surprised the various tooling companies haven't sent you even a modest set of carbide drills to try; your audience surely has many who could use them too.

[@Blondihacks]

I would not turn them down, that’s for sure. 😄

[@notsonominal]

If you wont trun them down, lets hope they're all the right size then:P

[@steveman1982]

​@@notsonominaloh, you...

[@adhawk5632]

Ebay $56 Aud, my first go at carbide 4 flute end mills, 8 piece, 2mm-12mm, no 7/9/11mm. SUPER impressed, sooo sharp and hard n heavy. The shavings off side milling steel wouldn't brush of my hands, like I'd grabbed a echidna. One(1) HSS 6mm endmill in my town in NSW is more than $60. Definitely give the ebay ones a go. The brand I ended up getting sent was PREDA. I'm stoked on them and will be getting a spare set, although they still feel dangerously sharp and no chips with lots of use. My HSS 2 and 4 fluids have a place, just not the go to in my BF16 mini mill with MT3/ER32 arbour and collets. Love the carbide❤. My mill has no quill dro, the next size up does, I'm looking at a retro fit with one like just installed, super useful vid, cheers mate👍👌🇦🇺

[@andrewgreen1181]

You should have slowed the speed down, it may not have work hardened the material

[@ColinChick]

I'm about as far from ever using such machines as are in your shop, and yet I'm always rediculously enthralled when i watch your videos. I thank you for your entertaining and enlightening content.

[@we2968]

Opening line got me. Hahaha. You'll have to update us when you pull that quill DRO bracket back out and put a hole in the top for electrical hookup for a LED work light inside there. Or perhaps a mounting hole to bolt in a bracket for something (mount for a magnifier, a camera you don't mind sacrificing, FogBuster air/mist nozzle, etc). Always a pleasure, stay safe and have fun.

[@oldfarthacks]

Why not a work light and a camera? One of the really cheap little box ones would fit with room to spare. Just mount a glass cover that can easily be wiped off and replaced when it get broken.

[@petem6291]

Hey Quinn, Thank you for always putting the metric equivalent in your videos I find it very helpful in trying to learn the metric system better.

[@notsonominal]

Its also a lot easier to follow along from home in the future:)

[@oldfarthacks]

Actually I find the Imperial to be a bit modern. I liked the Cubit reference, but she really should have given that as 0.08 fingers.

[@asciimation]

I grew up metric but am building an old British car so have the opposite problem, I've had to learn imperial! I prefer it as it's much easier to come up with pleasing ratios of measurements, if that makes sense.

[@troelshansen6212]

It's really not that hard; imperial machinists use the basic idea of metric all the time when they speak of "thous" and "10 thous": Scaling the unit by factors of 10 is exactly what metric do. In fact, one could ague that instead of speaking of thous" and "10 thous", one should measure in "milli-inches" and "(100s) micro-inches"

[@asciimation]

@@troelshansen6212 That makes sense now you mention it. But the trouble when you have a metric trained brain is I always think of a thou as 'about .025mm' and that '1mm is about 40 thou' which makes it tricky to do precision machining!

[@RonCovell]

Good job, Quinn!

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

It has been 50 years since I had my mech engineering training. Used little of it during my work career but now you have me glued to your channel.

[@firebird8600]

Yay!! It's Blondihacks time!!!

[@imkds55]

Thank you Quinn! You solved the issue I have with my PM-932 quill DRO. I have been using a work-around and can now fix the actual problem. Don't know why I overlooked the thin bracket. Thanks again.

[@ChrisHiblerPinball]

Form, fit, function and higher quality direct replacement. Ya gotta love it. I’d buy a lottery ticket as soon as possible too. :-)

[@johnbarnwell400]

Thank you so much ! This dro problem has perplexed me on my PM 728 until today ! I will be making the same bracket for my machine ! Thank u so much for figuring this out . I thought it was just slipping ! ! I also just ordered the priest tools power lift … THANK YOU !

[@hopelessnerd6677]

I learned something from this video. If all the holes are in the wrong place, the errors cancel out. I'm going DRO shopping!

[@wrongtown]

Appreciate you providing the measurements converted to cubits mate 😁

[@donaldsutherland244]

Thanks Quinn! I have an old Rockwell mill, and did a quickie install of a quill DRO, same issues that you had, my mocking up of a solution has been sitting on my mill too long though! So! It's time to do it "Quinn's Way!" (I apparently have a lower tolerance to equine footwear!) Thank you for the inspiration. You are inspiring!

[@samiches2008]

OMG!!! I replay the opening over and over... HILARIOUS!!!!

[@brianstreck4061]

Thanks for entertaining me, Quinn. Also, thank you for educating future machinists. Thus, keeping our craft alive.

[@MattFieldPhoto]

Been wondering about the quill dro on my PM25 similarly. Mine has though what i had assumed was a solid block of metal instead of a sheet metal bracket. But upon removal it turns out it’s actually a rectangular block of gray nylon or similar. Machined a direct replacement out of steel and now it’s rock solid. So thanks for that inspiration!

[@bobuk5722]

Oh dear, me again. Most of these cheaper capacitive DRO scales use a relative position indicating system. They know how far they have moved but have no idea where the scale zero is. To overcome this to some extent only the display is powered down - the position memory is kept active. So the scale uses some power even when apparently turned off. The more expensive high end models use an absolute position system. They turn off fully and know precisely where they are when turned back on. Since almost everyone manually zeros their scales when switching on it would be perfectly feasible for even the cheap ones to turn fully off - I'm not sure why they don't.

[@pete4918]

Wow... Nice work! Never stop refining those processes that add quality to the final piece. That's what separates the artisans from the weekend warriors. Love your work Quin.

[@termlimit]

The old mitutoyo quill dro on my Bridgeport will stay on until the battery dies in a month. I constantly forget to shut if off. Excellent video as always.

[@dancrea9407]

I've been looking at purchasing this mill and came across your video. Not only super informative but also entertaining. Loved your narration!

[@rossome3043]

New shop looks GREAT Quinn, keep up the great work n the cheesy jokes (cheesier the better). I hope to be watching you for at least as many years more!

[@MrTexgreen]

This video is exactly what I needed to see. I will start the quill mod on my 728VT today. Thanks for posting!!!

[@wesleygiles9259]

Great videos as always...! Love the fact you show your mistakes.. your good or bad luck when doing a project... Helps me relate more and also makes me think I might be able to manage some of these idea myself... Thanks for all the content..

[@smithbela8106]

Köszönjük!

[@bobuk5722]

Hi Quinn. I needed to drill some small holes in the side of a Mill support cabinet. I don't know what steel sheet it was but my HSS drills would not touch it. I resorted to carbide and it was night and day different. Well worth the money!

[@joschneider2344]

oh the omnious foreshadowing... makes me excited every time (=

[@chuckyounger7298]

Just want to say, I completely enjoy your videos, and make sure I don’t miss a single one... thank you

[@thaumaturgicresearchcounci4180]

Ah-hah! I think that must be the same problem I've been having with my quill DRO. Thanks Quinn!

[@Gottenhimfella]

It seems like the crappy bracket sets up a slam dunk situation where hysteresis rules

[@thaumaturgicresearchcounci4180]

Looked at the bracket that goes from my quill dro to the quill. Looks like a solid anodized block of aluminium... until closer inspection reveals it's a 3d print, feels like pla!

[@NBNracing]

Quinn, Thanks for your consistently great content. I really liked the angle bracket solution!

[@allenspark1080]

I'm a new hobby machinist and I have learned tons from you! thank you for making these videos!

[@petersgrayson]

Hey, great upgrade. Don't know if it would help here, but a good trick to have up your sleeve is take a masonry drill bit, sharpen it (clearance behind the cutting edge) and you can drill harden steel. It might need to be done a couple times, but ive seen it done on KZbin car channels when they need to drill say input shafts on gearboxes etc.

[@zombieprinting2670]

Love the new mill Quinn. nice little mods. I think the best fun on my last mill was making the upgrades that fit me best. :)

[@ego73]

Cubits, barleycorns, bath measures, sheckels, stone, and [of course] apples for measuring Smurfs...yes. LOL. Metric double devil-horns and Imperial double fist-pump!

[@garageofpower2891]

Cobalt alloy works great on stainless, and they are both cheaper and stronger than carbide, especially if they are TiN ed. That being said, HSS will drill stainless pretty easily as well, but you need to get the speed way down, like 1 - 200rpm or less on a 1/4 drill and keep the pressure up , you want to be hanging off the three arm handle on the drillpress or spindle. STub drills help for this because they don't bow as much under the axial load.

[@andrewedgecombe]

That was a long list of good luck in that install. Apparently the gods of fate like your channel too! 😂

[@Larry537]

Excellent! I have a 728 and will be making the DRO mount. For whatever reason my DRO will stay on and drain the battery. I very much enjoy your videos.

[@richardgardiner242]

Well that was very well timed 😀. I'm currently fitting the iGaging versions of these scales to my mill. I need to shorten one of them. They're described as "hardened stainless steel" and I was unsure if I would be able to use my bandsaw to cut them. Well the answer is yes! I don't at the moment think need to drill them but if I do - now I know I'll need a carbide drill. Thanks as always for your videos.

[@6Sally5]

I don’t have a mill yet, but just enjoy watching you do stuff. 😁

[@llapmsp]

Nice upgrades, amazing how simple fixes make life better. Thanks for sharing.

[@magicbytes3835]

Hello Quinn, I sharpened a 3/16" masonry drill bit and drilled a hole in a used power hack saw blade, went through easily, that really surprised me. Good job on the milling machine. 😷👍👍👍👍👍

[@williamweesner1191]

Perfectly timed, been on the fence for going on two week for a 728. Thanks for the info.

[@nicolashuffman4312]

Hey Quinn, I made a adapter that holds a shop vac 'crevice tool' to the head of my mill. Now I just turn on my shop vac, adjust the vacuum to be close to the end mill, and suck up most of the chips as I mill. I think you would really like this. It's nice for deep pockets and also if you are dealing with something powdery like cast iron. It keeps my shop cleaner and keeps stuff out of my lungs as well.

[@georgedennison3338]

Do the same thing my mill & lathe...

[@jonnyphenomenon]

I just ordered one of these machines (yesterday) after watching a handful of your videos about it. I was going to get the pm-30v, but decided to go with the "precision" features of this one instead. I am hopeful that I made the right choice! - And as a side note: I'll be damned if I am going to use something battery powered on a brand new 4000$ lathe. even if it requires hacking up the device, I'll be putting a dc power supply on there somewhere to run that quill DRO. I had a similar situation with the laser alignment device on my drill press, which used batteries which would go dead in about 24 hours if left on. I just spliced in a 5v dc adapter behind the work light switch and powered it from that instead.

[@jonnyphenomenon]

also, what's the deal with the horseshoe up your butt? I don't think I understood the joke..

[@jonnyphenomenon]

Never mind. I googled it. Its a "Luck" reference... although, in your case, I think your luck ran out, didn't it?

[@paulmcdonough9595]

Nice one Quinn, I recently had a shock when trying to drill stainless (grade unknown) I trashed two drill bits, in desperation a reached for a masonry drill, no proper carbide drills here, and bullied it through. I know I'm not going to 'engineering heaven' but when you need those holes drilled something has to give and on that occasion it was elegance!

[@carlnelson6601]

Thank the gods you gave that leather dimension in cubits so I can use my trusty old Noah micrometer!

[@afryhover]

I enjoyed the aluminum bracket part. Just simple and fun doing the scribe then cut by eye 👍👍

[@wgm-en2gx]

Oh Quinn you are killing me! I need some steam engine machining!

[@mihaimastacaneanu8505]

I really love your videos. They have the right balance of everything; and mostly knowledge content and pleasure as if viewer would actively participate at building the things you do. I wanted to say also what @nt2080 already said; poor man's carbide masonry bits sharpened with small diamond Proxxon disk/hand tool. Proxxon mill-drill jig has good repeatability for angles and travels. Though I made limited use of them (carbide drills), they did the job when it was necessary in tough materials. Even (though I don't recommend pushing luck against purposed tools) sharpened carbide tips of a large masonry crown and used it in multi- fly-cutter style. For aluminum stock, off course.

[@sweetdeliciouscake]

Regarding digital tools without auto-shutoff, I do have a set of digital calipers from iGaging that does not power down automatically - and the power draw is so small that the battery has not needed replacing. I do manually turn it off when I think of it, but more often than not, I find it still on from last time.

[@lawrencewillard6370]

Different Mill, but your insights apply to it also. Thank you muchly. Neede this.😊

[@mperry9025]

Thank you Quinn

[@joeybobbie1]

Hi Quinn Great Job as always. Congratulations on the New Milling Machine. Really nice upgrades that you did. Thanks for the Video.👍👍❤️

[@EdwardLoftis]

I really like the wall mount for the band saw❤

[@lv_woodturner3899]

I have a Chinese no-name vertical DRO on my milling machine. This one does not have auto-off feature. This means when I forget to turn it off, I drain the 2023 battery faster than desired. It is SO easy to forget to turn this DRO off. It also has the soft rubber buttons which are meant to contact tiny micro switches on the board. These are often a hassle to get the button to work, especially when trying to turn it off.

[@andrewjames7616]

Thankyou 👍 wimet carbide tipped drills are very good

[@rossnielsen6820]

As always, great video. I am considering that machine, and was pretty worried about that pull down. Whew!!! So thanks for this.

[@paulthomas3782]

Fantastic improvements to an already fantastic machine, I never noticed the mount bracket movement in my quill pro I must check it and do your upgrade if it is required, thanks for the wealth of wisdom cheers.

[@MacMcClelland-y9j]

Great fix for the quill DRO !

[@4Truth4All]

Nice segment Quinn. Definitely some quality improvements for the mill. I really enjoy your process!

[@vandegriftmichael]

A few additional upgrades. I took 1/2 aluminum plate and made a bracket around the spindle to add a depth stop, it could easily replace this bracket as well. I 3d printed a plastic washer to go between the quill adjustment knob and the head to reduce the backlash . I use Touch DRO and I have a magnetic scale on the way to try to integrate w and z together so the DRO tracks total movement of the cutter.

[@Blondihacks]

The backlash washer is a great idea!

[@JoelDrummond-n9p]

What’s the story behind the horseshoe?

[@jims6323]

Stainless has a steep learning curve, you did well to complete the mounting holes!

[@johnapel2856]

Great improvements! And, as always, I laughed out loud at "...because SHUT UP! That's why." Thanks, and Meow to Sprocket.

[@oldfarthacks]

I do love that comment as well.

[@bobuk5722]

Hi folks. Very useful ideas here. I've had trouble with a quill lock not releasing smoothly. The solution I have in mind is to add two springs to pull the locking rods clear when the lock lever is slackened off - they tend to jam slightly which is annoying. I'm interested in the mis-reading quill DRO as well. I've had trouble with an end mill cutting progressively lower than it should have. I was thinking it was me not getting the collets tightened up enough but clearly I need to check that it's not the quill slipping.

[@christophermadsen340]

You might already know this, but you can pull the lock handles outwards to clock the handle relative to the screw. You might find a slightly better angle so gravity doesn't cause it to drag. It's possible that even re-clocked it won't be perfect though.

[@vmitchinson]

I recently bought a set of diamond tipped drill bits and they worked very well in concrete. I think they might just be the answer to hardened steel.

[@berniejanssen2863]

Quinn, I had a pm940 from Precision Matthews and the quill dro would not auto shut off. And it would turn itself on if you moved the quill. Funny I found it annoying that if I bumped the quill and didn't notice it was on days later when I came to the shop.

[@RedDogForge]

for those wondering about that old timey measurement for leather... 4oz for example, that means a sq ft of that leather weighs 4ozs. thge reson for this method is that different tanning methods provide different material properties and thicknesses and the best method for determining strength is density of the hide, more so than the thickness.

[@Patroand]

Chère compatriote! Depuis longtemps je vous suis sur Yoube et j'admire votre perfectionnisme et la qualité de vos mouvements ainsi que votre obsession 😀 pour la propreté. Mais il me semble qu'il serait encore plus intéressant pour vous de vous procurer une vraie fraiseuse. Considérant que vous maintenant plus d'espace qu'a vos début, il me semble qu'une fraiseuse de type Bridgeport vous irait comme un gant. Elles ne sont dispendieuses et disponibles. Ce genre de fraiseuse porterait vos qualités à un summum de précision. Encore une fois merci de vos démonstrations. Bon succès.

[@MrCrankyface]

In a pinch you can also sharpen and use masonry bits when the material is really hard. Has gotten me through some iffy jobs.

[@Gottenhimfella]

Me too. And they're way more affordable, and don't snap on all days ending in the letter y.

[@nullcycle]

I absolutely love your enthusiasm! The improvement you laid out in this video were great! Thank you for sharing!

[@VincentGroenewold]

Very cool, I kinda left Ali Express et al as, like in the video, I kept on modding the issues.This was with 3D printers though, but it seems to apply to a lot of machinery. For 3D printers, I just saved up for a proper one and couldn't be happier.

[@peterfox2565]

As a point of reference my 2007 vintage Grizzly G0619 bench top milling machine has a similar style quill DRO scale and it does not have any auto shutoff. They definitely existed at some point.

[@MegaLostOne]

I finally got around to installing the upgrade for making the little DRO more accurate on my 728 today. I have the replacement DRO like you used here but haven't gotten around to installing it yet. It's nice not seeing the reading change 2 to 4 thou by the end of the cut.

[@CombatVombat42]

To configure the auto shutoff did you try "Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start"?

[@robertberger8642]

Excellent problem solving!

[@joewhitney4097]

Great improvements Quinn. Thanks for sharing.

[@terrytopliss9506]

Well done Quinn as usual. Thanks for the video.👍👍

[@davidapp3730]

Nice job. PM may adopt your bracket.

[@victoryvisiontour]

I have the same mill. I noticed the quill DRO issue too, but haven't taken the time to figure out what was causing it. I will fix it now that I know exactly what to do. Thanks! Looking forward to your other modifications.

[@bin_chicken80]

Hey Quinn, appreciate your videos! Thank you!

[@glennwright9747]

A few years ago I picked up a handful of aircraft drills second hand that were carbide tipped. I think they came from a Boeing plant in Seattle. Saved my bacon a couple times but most appear odd sized.

[@umahunter]

Just a tip another thing you can use for ways vise etc covers is marine grade vinyl I've used it for a bunch of stuff and so far haven't had any problems with hot chips oil etc 👍👍👍

[@jeyseychelles1370]

Ive never seen u this happy

[@jonrbryan]

I had exactly the same experience drilling a stainless scale for my quill. The only thing that would touch it was carbide. Tough stuff.

[@georgedennison3338]

I've avoided work hardening SS & other normally troublesome metals by throwing out the 'speeds & feeds bible'. I use cobalt drills & run at ~115 rpms. You can get right after it w/ feed pressure, but don't be as aggressive as you approach break through; it's real easy to snap bits at low speeds w/ too much pressure. Works for holes up to 0.700" or so. Also, I don't try to drill the entire hole w/ 1 bit. Take it in steps, but keep it at 0.30-0.35". If you get too cautious w/ the size increase, you can get a work harden problem at the margin of the bit's cutting edge. Also, I seem to have more reliable success w/ a gel cutting lube, than a liquid. When it comes time for carbide bits, I use either a solid carbide spade bit or a carbide edge & tip 2 flute bit rather than a conventional twist bit. The choice between spade vs 2 flute is based on depth of hole; spade bits have limits based on percentage of diameter. The spades are phenominal for center drilling broken studs & bolts, even if used only to get a good hole started. Neither spades nor 2 flutes do well outside of a drill press or mill, though they've done OK w/ a Porta-Align & hand drill. (The brittle carbide demands radial control of the bit or it's snaps in a heartbeat.) Hope that helps someone. GeoD

[@EngineerMikeF]

Best of good luck in passing the horseshoe

[@joselrodriguez5999]

One of the things I like more of your channel is that your machines are smaller than the ones in my shop so, in theory, if you can do it I can do it (not always true as your ingenuity is 1000% better than mine) :D

[@joels7605]

Very strong opening. Well done. I have the same mill and my z-axis is making a terrible noise now.

[@NikColyerMachineWorks]

Having problems with 316 stainless, try slowing the drill speed way down and use lots of oil. Using that trick and never wipe out a drill or work harden the stainless.

[@wilcojuffer5940]

Hi Quinn, when you drill 303, 304 or 316TI slow down your speed and used a center dril not 60degree but 120 degree but do not slow down your cutting speed nice video as well 😉👍👍

[@williamlambert2865]

Great video, love all the upgrades.

[@michaell397]

I don't use anything but carbide endmill's for the most part since the steels I work with are fairly hard even before I heat treat. In a pinch, even a properly sharpened Masonry carbide drill bit will cut most hardened steels. Just not for long. ;

[@manythingslefttobuild]

Great video Quinn, thanks for sharing.