Frank Wesson's Rimfire Carbine

First patented in 1859 and sold as a sporting rifle before the Civil War (in calibers 32, 38, and 41 rimfire), Frank Wesson added a military model with a 24 inch barrel and chambered for .44 Rimfire. His carbine was simple and efficient - although too simple and efficient for most troops to like. Distinctive for its dual triggers, the Frank Wesson carbine was a single shot rifle with a barrel that tipped up for loading when the front trigger was pressed (the rear trigger fired the weapon).
The carbine’s major shortcoming was its lack of an extractor - meaning that removing a fired case required prying with fingernail or a knife in the best case, and using a cleaning rod down the bore in the worst case. Despite this, Wesson did succeed in selling 4-5000 of his military pattern carbines to state militias including Kansas, Indiana, Missouri, and Kentucky (and a paltry 150 to the Federal government). They did see use through the Civil War, and Wesson continued to improve the design (by adding an extractor, among other changes) and selling it commercially until 1888. The carbines found their way out West, and were used by Indians and settlers alike, thanks to their rugged simplicity.
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[@yo10057]

It's Frank. Frank Wesson. I've covered wars, you know

[@freddykisback123]

"fantastic"

[@durn863]

Thats such a niche joke, im surprised 90 people got it XD

[@b33lze6u6]

couple of years later you go back, the mall is different but the same and you take selfies with a smaller nose. oh and no time limit.

[@KusagariBlues]

I've never even played Dead Rising, and I knew he was talking about Frank West. "XD"

[@hgpo27]

It's Frank. Frank West. Remember that name 'cause the whole world's gonna know it in three days when I get the scoop.

[@thomasschreiber9559]

Ian must live at the Rock Island Auction Co. a cot in the back room.

[@RockIslandAuctionCompany]

Yes, but there's plenty of natural light.

[@sn0dig]

and he has a bowl of water

[@nelsonnoname001]

Prob a hotplate to cook off of - And as many C-rations as he can handle

[@eisenkrieg553]

Thomas Schreiber Probably more like in a hole. It reviews the guns or else it gets the hose again.

[@jeffbangle4710]

He does occasionally go on supervised field trips to the range to fire some guns, but only if he's behaved himself.

[@AYellowPepper]

If this rifle would have had a extractor it would have been one great rifle

[@wilsonj4705]

On this episode of Forgotten Extractors...... When troops ditch your breech loader for muzzle loaders because they can load the muzzle loaders quicker that should be a clue you may have forgotten something along the way while designing the gun

[@drrazad]

Private: Enemy is approaching, Captain! Captain: FORMATION! READY! FIREEEEEEE! *100 Rifles unlocks simultaneously*

[@ruthfelldman8285]

You just stumbled onto the reason there isn't an extractor!

[@RukaSubCh]

It's a pretty good looking gun.

[@coltm4a186]

Ruka Erika I wonder how many shooters pulled the trigger that breaks open the barrel by accident.

[@ThaBigChicken]

Colt M4A1 I know it's an old comment but I believe that's why the pinky thing is there, so you can't pull that trigger unless you're over extending your hand and fingers. I also think it could be there to give you a better hold on the gun due to the fact it was aimed at cavalry, bouncing around on horseback seems like a good way to accidentally drop a weapon if you can't hold on tightly

[@michagebicki8690]

Gun Jesus during dinner is best Gun Jesus

[@coltm4a186]

Michał Gębicki His videos are good during any meal!

[@erniemiller1953]

The pinky finger guard helped to control the gun when opening the breach, when opened one-hand. This allowed the othe hand to be reaching for another round.

[@GeneralFantastic]

Frank Wesson: The Frank Stallone of gun manufacturing.

[@hunterjohnston8989]

I have just recently ran across 3 of these pieces. Thank you so much for uploading this video, Very useful information!

[@kbjerke]

Revisiting this vid after a year - Ian, would you like to fire one of these? I have a post Civil War 32 rimfire version and can provide 30 to 40 rounds of late production Navy Arms ammunition. I also have a Smith & Wesson 1 1/2 five shot revolver that could be included in the "shoot."

[@whatinthegoddamn]

Aww c'mon it sucks that he didn't respond to this

[@zacharyrollick6169]

Did you fix the extractor knob?

[@kbjerke]

@@zacharyrollick6169 It's on my "to do" list. I'd like to find an original replacement. Unicorn poop.

[@apimpnamedslickback6626]

this is a pretty cool little gun I like the look of the double triggers

[@waldo865sti]

You're getting so popular! Keep up the great content!

[@claytonforbes4763]

Proper use of air quotes ! Love it

[@vapelord420haloxsuicideepl4]

this comment has nothing really to do with this particular video, i just wanted to say that what you do on this channel is fantastic, the weapons you feature are always fascinating and you present their history and engineering in such a calm but engaging manor. ive been a long time viewer and im glad to see your channel has grown and hope to see you expand your range of content. i recently watched a series of your ww1 videos and i think more themed series would be very interesting. mostly i just wanted to show some support!

[@Rustebadge]

Daniel Wesson did have a son named Frank but I think these arms were made by his brother, Frank, born in 1828. His son, Frank, was born in 1853 and died in 1887. Brother Frank was making firearm before son Frank was born. I have a restored 2nd Type. Nicely made rifle.

[@drmaudio]

I would guess that pinky hook (whether effective or not) is to facilitate one handed operation. Important to the Calvary.

[@tranq45]

Gun Sense (drmaudio) : Also plausible.

[@user-tt8xf9td6b]

I know it is several years later, but it also looks as though it could be there to keep the shooter from pulling the wrong trigger as it kind of puts a person's index finger at the proper position.

[@dobypilgrim6160]

I had a post-war version .32 RF ammo. It was a fun little shooter. I sold or traded it when I ran out of ammo though. Oh, and it indeed had an extractor.

[@Caparco71]

I don't know why and I think it's from the nostalgia of the Mars Automatics 1902 patent with the circular lightning hole above the trigger loop, but seeing the breach trigger loop over the guard is really elegant looking and I love firearms like that

[@kenhelmers2603]

Doesn't get much simpler than this one! :)

[@loahnuh]

What can we do to drop the cost of this gun? No we aren't removing this convoluted double trigger system, we'll just get rid of the extractor. SMFH

[@HALLish-bl3bm]

I wouldn't call it converted, it's about as simple as a breach loaded gun can get, short of a gate latch which could open if the gun was just held upside down. One moving part that pivots, and a spring to keep it in place. Its just odd to have the release catch/button things be a trigger, but, there isn't any particular reason why this is bad.

[@hairyneil]

A rolling block would need more machining and precision, a pivot for the barrel is pretty simple. If you want to save on metal/time, issue a barrel and a hammer. Barrel in one hand, hammer in the other. Self extracting too, so that's helpful. AND it's left-hander friendly!

[@oscarm9649]

If he removed the second trigger, from a sales perspective, he is making a different model of gun, one that could be different from what is in demand

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

@@hairyneil doesn't sound like it would be friendly to anyone's hands!

[@witeshade]

damn, no extractor/ejector seems like some pretty dumb penny pinching. It seems like adding an extractor would have made the weapon much more popular and useful, and helped get more sales. Even if it was just some manual little lever or something... Ahh well, that's the interesting part of history I guess!

[@Nick13ro]

Yeah, but if that extruding piece would be at the top of the frame or the sides (since those are the only places it would do its job) it would also prevent a new round from being chambered unless you built the thing with pretty loose tolerances and then count on the case to expand to insure the extractor actually works on extraction while still failing to work in the other direction during loading. I guess he didn't feel like testing a bunch of prototypes until finally getting it right instead of just doing the simple thing and just sell the army his half baked potato.

[@hairyneil]

There's a war on! Do you know the price of those bullets?! One should be more than enough for anyone.

[@worldtraveler930]

Wow! Two adds in Forgotten Weapons in one day!!

[@ap1s2k78]

love this channel

[@jamalsfro]

wow this is the earliest ive watched your videos aha. never been this early

[@wadekirby8575]

It looks like a grove on both sides of the breach that would let you get your finger nail under the rim would have been a vary useful modification to make(, perhaps with a round file at camp even).

[@Trumplican]

everytime i find a cool old gun and search it Ian has a video on it LOL

[@kbjerke]

THANK you, Ian! Great video. (As always.) I actually HAVE one of these, a later model, in 32 rimfire. It has a manual extractor, although the knob is missing. I could fabricate one, but haven't yet. Mine has what APPEARS to be an original "flip up" aperture sight on the rear tang, in addition to the rear sight on the barrel. Also, I had a very interesting experience when firing this rifle at the 100 yd range back in 1975, when ammunition was more available. (I still have about 50 or 60 rounds.) Feel free to contact me if you have the time! Cheers, Karl

[@thatwhichsmashes8261]

I'd take a bit of wire and make a hoop at one end and attach the other end inside the breach assembly so that when you load a bullet, you put the bullet through the hoop and into the barrel, that way when you crack open the gun the wire yanks on the case. Then again, I've never claimed to be a gunsmith.

[@STB-jh7od]

I wonder if the rear hook for the small finger was to give a better grip/steady weapon while on horse-back since, like you said, the cavalry were more likely to get newer designs.

[@RebSike]

Yet another gun that could've been an iconic battle rifle, but was undone by a poor decision about a seemingly minute detail.

[@drmaudio]

Slap an extractor on it and it is probably a nice, handy carbine.

[@joshuamarvin7400]

How the hell did Frank's daddy not whoop his ass for designing a carbine without an extractor?

[@Goatcha_M]

If he'd included an extractor that would have been an incredibly effective light arm, very quick to reload, what a missed opportunity. Of course you'd still be better off with a 15-shot Henry Repeater, but as far as single-shot carbines go, an extractor would have made it so viable.

[@myramadd6651]

I was thinking. it would have been easy to put a sliding tab that would slide under the barrel and allow you to slide the cartridge out easily.

[@russell6341]

There's rumors that the Cody Museum is building him guest quarters with reserved parking

[@charleslindberg829]

It would make a nice 32 acp or 38 special shooter. Lucky owner.

[@kampase]

Interesting that there's no cavalry sling loops, I wonder how comfortable it would be over your back

[@Immopimmo]

Strange that he went with a second trigger for opening the barrel. Wouldn't a lever/triggerguard be more sensible? Imagine when you have to reach quickly for your rifle and fire of a shot at an attacker and up pops the barrel! :o

[@HALLish-bl3bm]

Ian didn't mention a safety, so I assume it would be a bad idea to carry this thing loaded, because it'd be really easy to discharge it by mistake. So you probably would be fucked in that scenario, but for reasons to do with the other trigger than the one you where talking about.

[@ToastyMozart]

Immopimmo I would assume that was the intention of the pinky loop: to keep your hand in a consistent place so you knew where the actual trigger was. But yeah, a (nowadays) typical thumb lever would have been much better.

[@BoZoiD57]

+HALL9000ish back then the best safety was having the hammer at half cock or not cocked at all.

[@NateTheBrewer]

I wonder if the finger hook behind the rear trigger guard isn't to aid in indexing your hand so you don't accidentally go to fire the gun and reach too far forward and open the action... But I guess they wouldn't have thought of that if they didn't put an extractor on a cavalry carbine...

[@Jesses001]

Looks like a great, simple rifle. It just needs some way of getting the cases out. He really should had added that during war time. I am sure it would had sold better if the troops were happier with it.

[@brittongolfwang]

sick

[@fdmackey3666]

Reminds me of the confusion some people experienced when the "Dan Wesson" brand of revolvers first arrived on the market. I'm somewhat surprised that ANYBODY purchased this rifle for active combat purposes over a muzzle loader as I have seen better designed (for active combat believe it or not) single shot firearms that came out of backyard hobbyist machine shops....No extractor?....I'm sure that worked well with black powder ammo.

[@fdmackey3666]

Donna Sanders, I'm aware of the weapons shortages that existed on BOTH sides during most of the Late Unpleasantness....But the design in and of itself simply did not lend itself to any kind of serious combat. I would have much preferred a much faster to reload sling shot and a bag of smooth, flat river rocks to the Wesson carbine.

[@Clockwork5quirrel]

Even a small scallop so finger nail or knife extraction could be used more often would have been useful. I wonder if no one filled one in.

[@zacharyrollick6169]

It looked like they beveled the sides for that purpose.

[@RDBremner]

Very interesting info. Where can I find more info on this rifle, aside from Wikipedia? The carbine seems pretty cool, but I can't find any period type information in documents.

[@AutisticPotatoe]

good last name

[@Golde2Good]

I had a feeling it'd be missing an ejector.

[@Th3Sabator45]

I dont know other peoples opinions on the guy, but in the book "documentjng the weapons of the lbh.", wendel grangaard says the army gave shoshone scouts Frank Wesson rifles. Any one else know of it?

[@adaw2d3222]

Can you do the Maynard carbine?

[@zacharyrollick6169]

A screwed on manual extractor would have helped greatly.

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

It looks so tiny :-o

[@jerryaddington3310]

Another cool looking gun thanks again, Now you never called Frank Wesson out as a War Profiteer , although making a carbine for the Calvary without an extractor or a really strong extractor to eject casings seems to me to fit the bill. You brought up to save cost but looking at the breech from you video it looks like below the barrel is where the hook from the first trigger engages to lock the breach ? A cut above would allow an spring loaded extractor to be cheaply and easily installed as long as the mechanism for the first trigger was stronger. The first trigger looks cool but the same desired effect could be achieved much more easily especially when considering casting or milling a double trigger card and another trigger are required. This is just speculation on my part as I don't think anyone knows why Henry Wesson did it, but when I see a Single bore barrel with two triggers I think a marksman's gun. first to cock or set the sear to breaking point and the second trigger is a hair trigger for the shot. Now cutting down the barrel to make a carbine would not allude to a marksman's rifle but it was not brought up that even at that time when you see it and even though the first trigger just unlocks the breech that people would assume it is more accurate, just as a aesthetic selling point! Maybe I am looking into it to much but I like to know the reason behind the reasoning! Keep up the good work!

[@roadpanzir]

Rimfire time!

[@five5105]

No extractor at all? No even some kind of simple manual one? *WHY?*

[@Rick1885]

No extractor? What the fuck Frank?

[@feraligatorade99]

Hahahaha, I thought the same thing, lol

[@garrettgarrett7974]

Sounds like an early M-16.

[@bertiidol76]

I have this model in bronze metal! You have any idea this origin?

[@bretthutchison3991]

So would a rifle like this need an extractor and an ejector or is the extractor sufficient by itself

[@johnstacy7902]

to bad he didn't make a 56/50 Spencer versions...

[@charro7037]

No extractor, no weapon : this beautiful carbine is useless…

[@cudwieser3952]

Just a thought. Didn't you say it was originally a sporting gun. Is there a possibilty of oversight or optimism on Franks part to off load a basic rifle that was intended to be cheap from the start with no complication for those simply taking their time, yet not grasping or caring what the military actually needed when having to shoot in a hurry. It just seems Frank was naive to military style firearms as opposed to a bad gun maker.

[@simoncampbell5802]

No extractor. We really take current technology for granted nowadays.

[@gamesbok]

A hand guard to guard your hand and a butt plate.

[@GasNBullets]

sad because it could have easily been modified for a manual extractor bar....

[@ctlindcetera8321]

Frank Wesson's Rimfire Carbine

[@seanking2253]

Ian, did you just dry-fire a rimfire gun? (around the 2:09 mark)

[@papabeanguy]

why is center fire better than rim fire? (I just assume its better because really the only popular rim fire anymore is .22lr)

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Centerfire cases are reusable and their style of primer is more reliable.

[@alldaydevo]

why did they use hex style barrels back in the day? ive seen a few oldies like that and seems like it would be harder to make. i am simple tho

[@NRDavis-wl8vn]

Maybe not, as you could form the Octagon barrel using a rolling mill but a round barrel to be uniform would have to be turned on a Lathe. Just my thoughts, would have been nice to live in those times.

[@charliejenkins7314]

my buddies dad has one in .22 cal

[@Riazor1370]

Just turn it upside down, don't the empty case slip down? Or you must slicking and sanding the chamber to let it go quickly.

[@xXProjectEpsilonXx]

I haz one of these. 5k and its yours. Any takers?

[@thewolfpack5290]

no extractor... wow.

[@nelsonnoname001]

If they would of designed and inserted an extractor (I'm guessing a shotgun style break mech would work?) would be a pretty neat rifle - BTW how would you overlook something like this in testing? Think it would of been obvious the first shot... oh yeah they can take a knife out, take a knee, and extract the case... all while smoke and bullets are whizzing by you during a life threatening battle - Guess it was good he spent a little bit more later, but a little too late I'd guess?

[@RebSike]

nice profile pic p e /\ k e

[@zanegardner6488]

My grandpa gave me one. Has a cracked stock

[@Nukle0n]

Isn't the kind of bullet you describe known as a heeled bullet?

[@DeepPastry]

No, he's describing a modern form, where the bullet fits inside the case. A heeled bullet is the same size as the case, except the heel which is the part that fits inside the case.

[@you900001]

Profit margins don't mater if you cant sell the gun.

[@ruthfelldman8285]

2 triggers 1 pinky hook 0 extractors.... Proof It doesn't take brains to inherit a name or design a gun for the Govt.

[@vguyver2]

Surprisingly simple gun, and it looks like it had some quality. Terribly flawed execution.

[@ZTChong]

Can you do more video on Chinese gun? I am interested at that.

[@christopherdrekr1078]

Seems ok to me but my standards are very low.

[@adamwhitney6768]

Who else cringed at 2:06 when he dry fired

[@scrap-binweaponry5209]

me.

[@zacharyrollick6169]

It looked like his hand slipped.

[@davidbell5528]

So this the reason that .380 is a 9mm despite 9mm being .36ish?

[@Guy_GuyGuy]

Yup. Percussion .36 caliber revolvers were .375" but called .36 because the land diameter was measured, not the grooves. When the first cartridges came about which used heeled bullets, the measurement generally used became the grooves and .375 was rounded up to .38. Not much longer heeled bullets fell out of favor and the .375" bullet was downsized to ~.357" to fit inside the case (with hollow bases to expand and work in older revolvers with larger groove diameters).

[@kainhall]

back in the day...you cold only carry as much as your horse could.... when we got things like cars....didnt matter if the gun was 16 pounds....ya dont use it till you stop your truck, open the door, and shoot the deer. hunting laws were very lax.....

[@couchbear6108]

Fallout 3 BB gun

[@mrmoralman1]

7 dislikes? lol

[@luisrosario3502]

21st

[@silverstar4289]

Rock Island buyer premium. Won’t buy from them. I bid one time, pretty low, accounting for the premium of 23 percent. Didn’t win, but I get full color catalog and personal phone call before each upcoming auction now. Just like Barrett Jackson car auction. Prey on moneyed men, give them some booze and let them try to impress each other with how much they can over spend.