French M1837 Rifled Carbine

Chasseurs à pied (aka riflemen or jaegers) were a relatively late addition to the French army, with the first battalions being officially created in 1839. A new firearm was needed for these chasseurs as future sharpshooters and shock troops. Luckily a new rifled percussion carbine had already requested by the powers that be in 1833 and though the hard work of Mr Delvigne, Mr Brunéel and the Marquis de Pontcharra, the rifled carbine model 1837 is created, France's first military percussion rifle.
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[@18robsmith]

Morning coffee in hand, ready to watch :-) some time later...... "What an interesting bit of history and engineering" :-) :-) Morning coffee now consumed - perfect timing

[@danielkaczynski9702]

At 00:09, our dear Monsieur le Chap says, "I hope you have your favorite drink and snacks on hand......." Well, I didn't have any snacks, more's the pity, but fortunately I did have a nice bottle of Glenfiddich 15 year Unique Solera Reserve. A shot* ( entirely liquid, not black powder ) taken neat, has primed* me to listen to this absolutely fascinating piece of historical firearms arcana. With the invention of percussion ignition and the industrial revolution really rolling along this is an amazing era in firearms development. We, of course, know where the path led, but they did not. They had to tinker their way into the future. Kudos to Chappie for retracing their steps for our edification. I can't wait to see how this early steampunk blaster performs on the range. * Sorry about the puns, but I assure you they were quite spontaneous on my part. It seems that shot hit the target and I am feeling quite mellow now. Thank you, Monsieur le Chap, for suggesting it!

[@thebotrchap]

I am secure in the knowledge that our audience are people of impeccable taste.

[@danielkaczynski9702]

@@thebotrchap Thank you for your kind words, Monsieur le Chap.

[@TimDutch]

Very interesting weapon. Looking forward to seeing it being fired.

[@pmgn8444]

Looking forward to see the Mle 1837 on the range. Speaking of nerdy, love to hear more about that milling machine in the background!

[@thebotrchap]

It’s just a small generic chinesium mill sold everywhere. Each reseller puts their badge on it and gives it their model number.

[@marcusott2973]

Friday morning and I don't have to work....this is great. Coffee and croissants on hand.

[@Chilly_Billy]

Quite a handsome example you have there, Chap. I look forward to a video in which you take it to the range.

[@peteranderson037]

A 1:6 meter twist rate is basically just there for moral support.

[@kwacker45]

Luv it!

[@stumpymacgabhann]

Thank you for that. Another little piece of history to add to the rest.

[@emoryzakin2576]

Beautiful and definitely different

[@simonjones6128]

Great job Chappie look forward to seeing it shot on the range

[@gratefulguy4130]

A bayonet for when you need your troops to clear the weeds out of the garden.

[@thebotrchap]

It must be completely unwieldy as a foraging tool

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Opens with reasons Not to WATCH? I'm STILL I AM HERE! AT The END! Sorry I did Not realize I was "Not subscribed?"

[@thebotrchap]

Welcome to the community 👍

[@nilo9456]

Chap, Thank you very much for that "Fill in the gaps" information regarding the transition between muzzleloading smoothbore flintlock muskets, and breach loading rifled barrel with self contained cartridges modern firearms.

[@tomhenry897]

Some pretty advanced thinking

[@michaelguerin56]

Thanks. Nice bit of history. I have read, probably in Major Myatt’s book on 19th Century weapons, that Thouvenin rifles were used in the Crimea.

[@EXO9X8]

A warm glass of milk and a fine tale of french rifles narrated by the chap.

[@thebotrchap]

No cookies 🥺

[@EXO9X8]

I gave the cookie to the mouse.

[@SmokinLoon5150]

Job well done. Thanks for sharing!

[@con6lex]

Thank you for preserving and making the history of this rifle and cartridge available. Paper cartridges are quite interesting...I have watched videos from British Muzzleloader on this subject. It seems like "lost technology". Very nice that you have and are preserving a rare firearm!

[@niklasaskham4208]

I’ve got drinks and snacks. Hello from New Zealand!

[@mattiaseriksson6422]

Yes! Another interesting rifle🙂

[@SlavicCelery]

Great series, both this one and the range video!

[@peterisaacs1344]

Have had bits of musket cap pepper my arm

[@petrimakela5978]

That's an absolutely gorgeous rifle

[@untermench3502]

For the period, a percussion carbine was pretty modern.

[@cedhome7945]

The little wall surrounding the cap might help if bits of the cap fly off .I have fired hundreds of shots with Springfield's and Enfield's and sometimes bits of the cap can come back towards you . anyone else have this happen out there?

[@thebotrchap]

We'll see, in any case the feature was dropped on all subsequent models. The cup in the nose of the hammer is supposed to mitigate the cap splash back but like you, I've had the odd bit of cap pepper my face.

[@untermench3502]

My right hand has several fragments embedded from percussion caps, so it's a good idea to wear safety glasses.

[@johnh4957]

so they used the ramrod from the breech end to seat the bullet? seems unwieldy, thought they'd have a a little hammer thingy like musket loaders use, looking forward to a test loading/firing I can't visualize how the breech block action worked/accessed, especially if done in ranks and file so as not to poke someones eye out! Guess I'll go look up the pistol vid as you suggested. Interesting to see the incremental changes made

[@thebotrchap]

Yeah have a look at the 1833 vid. I think your thinking it’s a breechloader. It’s a muzzleloader with a special breech.

[@johnh4957]

@@thebotrchap yep I'm confused!, hoping to understand if/when you can fire it! Lovely gun, looks better than my 2010 gun.

[@gatlingbert]

Great video . It takes a lot of testing to get these old weapons to shoot what you're aiming at.

[@thebotrchap]

In this case the unknowns are actually quite limited. The powder charge is known, as is the initial bore diametre. The sabot dimensions and material are irrelevant since its just a buffer and doesn't contribute to transferring spin to the ball.

[@viperscot1]

Excellent nerdtastic time 😁😁😁😁

[@tomhenry897]

Midnight here 6 am there

[@Simon_Nonymous]

Find us a 20mm wallgun Chap and let's see that in action!!

[@thebotrchap]

Any of the FR wall guns is on my wish list.

[@chpet1655]

Nothing less than a 25 mm or I’m out

[@thebotrchap]

@@chpet1655 but but I heard that it’s what you do with it that counts #sad

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Bit of a long one... Yayyyyyyy.. Wait.. it's only 20 minutes... I miss the long vids

[@thebotrchap]

I made that statement before actually starting. It ended up being shorter than anticipated (oops?)

[@tomhenry897]

How many got sold to the CSA?

[@thebotrchap]

I would assume none.

[@carlcarlton764]

Long? Well, in post Napoleonic France carbine is longer than you! 😇 PS: Clever pre minie ball system.

[@itatane]

Chap, the hammer on the last model looks very familiar. Was that style of hammer very popular on the continent? I think it resembles a Tabatiere shotgun hammer, but I am probably mistaken. (When you're a moron like me, it doesn't pay to be too sure about things.)

[@thebotrchap]

The 1859 carbine does indeed have the typical French heavy percussion hammer which appears from 1840 onwards. The Dutch, Belgian, Russian and Italian/Piedmont percussion arms have very similar ones. On the Tabby it is indeed the original percussion hammer.

[@NomadShadow1]

Cool

[@b.griffin317]

Oh good, the english version dropped.

[@thebotrchap]

Always drops immediately after the FR version for better YT stats tracking

[@onpsxmember]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing, making the paper prototype and lending your Famas to Ian. Nice to see he always had the case with him on the stages to lay it on the foam. Would it help you to know how the cartridge of the Lindner Umbau was made? I can't promise anything but I'll see if I can't find out more about it. I'm not so into BP, but I'm not far from Amberg, so maybe someone can help me to help you.

[@thebotrchap]

Thank you! I used to have a Podewils-Linder rifle so I’ve made the cartridges before.

[@onpsxmember]

@@thebotrchap What's the main difference on the cartridge itself to the M1837 cartridge? Did you glue in the cap as well and how to release? EDIT: Found out there is a annual paper cartridge competition near me, last one just 2 weeks ago with those period rifles/muskets.

[@thebotrchap]

@@onpsxmember The 1837 cartridge is closer to a classical minié cartridge but instead of a minié bullet we have a round ball on a sabot. I believe it’s the earliest form of cartridge for which in use the powder is poured, the cartridge is reversed, the projectile is partially inserted in the bore and the excess paper torn off and the projectile is rammed down. The 1840 cartridge has a greased patch nailed to the sabot. The 1837 has a greased patch too but I’m trying to find out if the cap in the sabot was actually used or whether it was ditched before the carbine was issued. The cap was just a press fit. Original French caps had no wings so there was a thin layer of paper covering the cap pocket.

[@onpsxmember]

@@thebotrchap I might have someone connected to more paper cartridge fans that could potentially point you in the right direction. I'll contact him. Can you give me an e-mail address to reach you? EDIT: I'v send him a mail and I'll CC you if I hear something substantial.

[@thebotrchap]

@@onpsxmember Absolutely, they can use [e-mail]

[@chomocharlie3997]

1:29, Well, later, in the War of Southern Secession, the Unionists had the sharpshooters from Wisconsin who definitely, more than once, saved the day at the battle of Gettysburg!

[@luissantiago5163]

Oh neat

[@cheesenoodles8316]

Cool.

[@ThePerfectRed]

"The French copy nobody. Nobody copies the French." - This thing just looks wierd, right down to the hammer and the percussion nipple on the barrel that absolutely blocks your sight. Then, a 6 meter twist rate; did they want the ball to hit an enemy before turnig once?

[@thesteampacketinnknottingl9620]

720p are you kidding?

[@LN997-i8x]

It's almost certainly an issue with KZbin processing the upload, there's not much he can do about it.

[@BlokeontheRange]

I think it is indeed, the vids aren't showing HD processing complete.

[@mikehoare6093]

Chap , More about anything between mle 1837 and mle 1858 ! There´s little to no literature about the guns of Mexico, the Carlist Wars and Solferino. I gotta say, your rifles look suspiciously new, hmmmm...............and I bought me last week a 1868 Chassepot with matching numbers as a birthday present. What to say, the idiom " never fired, only dropped once" applies 110% !!! The bore is as good as my Parker-Hales, Shiloh Sharps or Gibbs rifles. Your Chassepot cartridge making tutorial will come in handy !

[@thebotrchap]

Don't forget Crimea! I guess they just had rigorous cleaning regimens since there was plenty of action in that time frame, both in Europe and colonial conflicts. The infantry rifles are relatively plentiful but the Chasseurs carbines are quite scarce, particularly the tige carbines. Still you never know, I never thought I would find a 1837 after all! Chassepots are generally in good condition and actually were rarely used after 1870/71. Keep in mind the many thousands that were captured or given as war reparations to Prussia, I'd say most of them that didn't get converted to Gras just sat in warehouses for most of their existence before heading for surplus.

[@mikehoare6093]

@@thebotrchap you need to put forward a manuscript "french rifles 1822-1853", I mean really, there´s nothing on the market. Instant bestseller ! What´s intriguing, especially to me, is the belgian stuff which is looking similar to the french guns ! It would be nice to get some deep insight, from my Serbian perspective !!! Did the Legion Etrangere get any of these ?

[@jodc2760]

@@mikehoare6093 The Belgian built straight copies of French muskets (after 1815). However there rifles were sometimes in .577 caliber rather than in French .70 caliber. From 1831 to 1861 the French foreign Legion was armed with the same smoothbore flintlocks and percussion as the regular infantry. However after 1861 they began to use the elite "Model 1859 carabine de chasseur" rifles (same gun as the one shown by the Chap).

[@jodc2760]

@@mikehoare6093 Difficult to understand today, but before the end of the 1850s the French Foreign Legion wasn't considereed as an elite force, but rather as a bunch of "disposable foreigners". The Elite soldiers were the Zouaves, the Chasseurs and Marine Infantry.

[@mikehoare6093]

@@jodc2760 I know history very well, thanks !

[@johnstacy7902]

One could argue that the British adopted the Baker based in no small part of their experience in North America with those plucky colonists armed with hunting rifles.

[@thebotrchap]

Not really, the British had the Ferguson rifle and the Hessian auxiliaries had Jägers armed with rifles too. The Baker is essentially a reworked German Jäger rifle.

[@MrNatWhilk]

Monsieur Chap, I didn’t hear you specify the bore diameter, but I’m tentatively assuming it is around 17.5mm. If that’s correct, the Greenhill formula indicates that a twist rate of 1 turn in ~2.5 meters would be needed to stabilize the ball. If the gun had a reputation for poor accuracy at “long” range, I submit it is because the “rifle” is essentially a smooth bore. But I’m looking forward to the shooting video!

[@thebotrchap]

I did didn't I! The bore is 17mm. It's interesting that the follow-up model which bumps the charge up to 6g apparently gave adequate results.

[@johnfisk811]

A brief reminder that the Greenhill formula was created for artillery pieces so is unreliable for small arms.

[@jacobhelena3665]

@@thebotrchap By "follow up model" are you referring to the 1838 Fusil de Rempart? Do you happen to know if its twist rate was changed?

[@chomocharlie3997]

2:03, Algeria was to the French, what the battle of Lexington and Concord had been for the Brits, no?

[@carlcarlton764]

🤔 1837 restautation period? King Charlie got dumped in 1830, by 37 you'd be into the period of the French citizen king. Damn if I remember his name or goofle it.