Fresno is removing its pedestrian mall. Will it save downtown?

On September 1, 1964, the city leaders of Fresno, California broke ground a new pedestrian mall along Fulton Street (Fulton Mall), one of the city’s main thoroughfares. On March 3, 2016, when city leaders broke ground on the removal of that pedestrian mall. Will the removal reverse Fresno's fortunes?
Resources on this topic:
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Videos courtesy of Archive.org's Moving Image Archive and the Community Media Access Collaborative.
Photo credits:
Alan Light, Flickr
Geoff Livingston, Flickr
David Prasade, Flickr
Joe Green, Flickr
NYCDOT
Gruen and Associates
Minnesota Historical Society
Life Magazine Photo Archive

[@ragzaugustus]

Pedestrian mall or Pedestrianized Streets as we call them over here in Denmark, are a staple of most cities, however, they do require the following: 1. Parking areas surrounding the area. 2. Public transportation with stations either nearby or inside. 3. Shops that are actually interesting. 4. Proper maintenance. If you don't have ALL of them, you're project will failed hilariously.

[@Milnoc]

5. Shut down the Wal-Marts.

[@Hyperventilacion]

I'd add mixed zonning, if there isn't people living nearby it makes no sense.

[@Milnoc]

That too! I know that by personal experience. My office and home in downtown Ottawa are only half an hour apart by foot, with many local merchants in the surrounding area.

[@larrylitmanen9877]

Has nothing to do with a WalMart. WalMart is a food/clothing store, a necessary store vs pedestrian malls that are made up of smaller stores like Starbucks, book stores, stuff like that.

[@jasonmccall3950]

Iowa City checks the boxes on all of those. Adding events and festivals to the downtown area helps as well. Nothing better than sitting on a resturant's patio while enjoying the Ped mall.

[@hebneh]

I fail to see why putting vehicles back on a street will somehow magically revitalize any neighborhood. If there weren't people on the mall, there won't be people on the sidewalks of a regular street.

[@jaznoalpha7686]

I think it's ridiculous, the high speed's rail station is going to open up right at that pedestrian mall and would've brought a ton of foot traffic to that area.

[@CzornyLisek]

jasen ratnam Creating shortcut and/or increasing road capacity can ONLY make situation worse when there is problem with traffic. It's impossible to increase complexity of road system, make any shortcut or increase road system capacity without making all traffic problems worse if there are any to start with.(If there is no problems to start with it's usually good thing) That is because of things like: Braess's paradox, Lewis-Mogridge Position, Marchetti's constant, Jevons paradox and so on That's why if city have any problem with traffic it reduce road capacity(by decreasing number of lanes or just closing roads) and road complexity(no on-off ramps everywhere, no traffic lights)(with maybe exception of creating roundabouts(not road circles) everywhere)

[@misaelramos5442]

ItsZachTV Yes but, Fresno is not a small town.

[@flip1sba]

Misael Ramos Fresno is also not a large city especially when compared with LA or The SF Bay Area!

[@vegasmarc7252]

It's been half a year later, still crappy, smells like urine again, in other words, a TOTAL FAILURE!!!!!!!!! Not to mention the 20 plus million dollars wasted on this pet project. Bringing in the new USL Fresno FC to Chukchansi Park isn't going to help either, just look at the Grizzlies. High speed rail isn't going to happen either other than an unfinished eyesore so that's out the window as well. Go to San Diego's Gaslamp District, San Antonio's River Walk, or my very own Las Vegas' Fremont Street Experience if you want to see REAL successful downtown areas. Fresyes??? FresHELLNO!!!!!!

[@sauce_ur_patty]

Should've made it mixed use. Residential at top, stores below.

[@LydiaFortner]

There are several buildings in downtown now that are like that, near the old mall, but none actually on it at the moment.

[@aponcedeleon7428]

Yes!!!! It’s not that hard city planners. Put housing above the stores and life around the pedestrian malls

[@SagaciousSilence]

Pedestrian malls work if you have a downtown worth visiting. Santa Monica’s pedestrian mall is massively populated at all times. Fresno failed because it’s Fresno. Literally no one wants to visit, let alone live in, Fresno.

[@DoppeltubeGuy]

Your Lord and Savior so true

[@Locutus]

That is true. I went to Fresno only to visit the national parks in the area. It didn't occur to me to visit central Fresno. I stayed just outside the centre, near the interstate, with a street full of motels. Pretty dodgy area. There was a Taco Bell not far from the motel, had to take the car each time. Walking would have taken only 10 minutes.

[@agsilver2009]

Not everyone hated it there I'm waiting to go back. (It makes people flinch when I say that) but Fresno's community (mainly Hispanic) do hold few events downtown however it doesn't really connect with the city government. While not really thriving I do visit the few shops there. Growth is in the north side of town and no one wants to head south despite the new condos and beauty of downtowns tall buildings

[@vanessakachadurian7938]

Downtown Fresno pedestrian mall THRIVED it didn't hurt business it built it downtown. What hurt the downtown was the new subdivisions and malls out north. The landscape of downtown Fresno changed, good shops left or went out of business and it was largely hispanic businesses keeping downtown Fulton mall alive. This film is ok, but it suggests the demise of the downtown was because of the pedestrian mall and it had nothing to do with it. The parking and lack of attractions to downtown have also played a part. FWIW, even Sierra Vista Mall and Fashion Fair Mall have had to undergo big revitalization. Fig Garden is also going through one. Give people a reason to go downtown.

[@CityBeautiful]

Hi Vanessa! Thanks for the comment! I did not intend to suggest that the pedestrian mall caused the demise of downtown. I was merely pointing out that city leaders in the '50s thought it would save downtown and it didn't, and city leaders now think removing it will save downtown... and we'll see if it does. I am actually a big fan of Fulton Mall and sad to see it go (though I understand why city leaders want to change it up). Thanks again for the thoughtful comment!

[@danielboone72]

You are correct.

[@stefanicotta2302]

A big reason for the Mall's demise was because it took years for the construction of a freeway linking North Fresno to the Downtown area. I believe the original plan included a freeway system to provide that link. The drive from north to south was not convenient and once shopping options went in to the north, it was over for Downtown. The full Gruen plan was never fulfilled.

[@fresnofultonartmall3995]

This is the Fulton Art Mall channel replying. Yes, we agree with all the points you mentioned. Please check out and share the films we created describing the history and ultimate demise of the Fulton Art Mall. The films detail the political machinations from the very start of the mall to the end involving Mayor Ashley Swearengin who dealt the final and underhanded death knell to the Fulton Art mall. FultonMall.org

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

@@blista2 Don't attack people personally based on your own lack of understanding of what they wrote.

[@edgarsandoval289]

I go to Fresno all the time and rarely do I ever stop in Downtown. There's nothing there besides drug addicts and this one place that sells ridiculously long burritos. You can reopen the street, but unless you add something there, I won't be stopping there anytime soon.

[@swinde]

But, unless people are coming there, no one will build anything either. Vicious circle.

[@janreal84]

Ridiculously long burritos sounds pretty good tbh

[@pongop]

The Anaconda burrito?

[@dawnv3436]

This is really dumb, it's the ZONING. If people don't LIVE there why would they GO there?

[@DoncasterA1Music]

I live in Fresno and normally downtown seems deserted. A big contrast from when I used to live in Chicago

[@nsengstad]

ChicagoLTrain115 I'm surprised there's such a huge difference between Chicago and Fresno..

[@stugonmonday7511]

Blame shitty city planning

[@pro100]

Come on, you can't compare Fresno to Chicago

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Downtown Chicago is deserted after 7pm or 5pm in some areas.

[@justthecoolestdudeyo9446]

I live here too, and my experience with downtown is the same. My belief is that the city downtown has failed because there hasn't been adequate investment in things like public transit and smart planning around downtown to give anybody a reason to go. I visited Denver to attend an event in their convention center, and the downtown region there was beautiful, because it was pedestrian focused and had buses that ran the length of the area. I've heard that water policy may have played a role as well, but who knows. There weren't more things to do (or at least, none that I had time to do), but I had a blast just walking around and looking.

[@jiainsf]

if Fresno's downtown doesn't have the parking space, then they need to better their public transportation if the city is as sprawled as it seems to be, then maybe a mixed use zoning would work better hopefully Fresno finds a way to turn this around

[@1014p]

Jia Hong Situ down town Fresno is not a desired place to walk around. It’s full of bums and crime rate isn’t good either. There is also shops few care about there. Plus I was in several shops and it wasn’t uncommon to find trash cans full of paper towels and poop. Not joking, if there wasn’t a waste bin next to the toilet it was a pile of poop filled paper towels or toilet paper.

[@kwood55981]

Downtown Fresno is a shit hole. Your only go there if you work downtown, or have jury duty or to fight a traffic ticket. No one goes there to shop or have lunch. Its dangerous, bums, crackheads and lots of homeless. Trust me I live close to Fresno. Plus you have to pay to park. Every parking space have a meter, or is a pay to park garage. It's a waste of money to try and fix up downtown.

[@brucebanana4486]

As someone who lives in Fresno that Public Transportation is bad here. The bus takes too long because of traffic. I wish we have bus lanes so we can separate buses from car traffic. I also want to bring back streetcars because we used to have them until we eliminate them around the 1930s or 1940s. The biggest mistake we ever did. Also, the bike lanes are an awful design here.

[@skyearthocean5815]

Bringing cars back into a pedestrian space is the exact opposite direction we need to be going.

[@howtubeable]

Why?

[@ericengvall8619]

I think it's because people aren't getting enough exercise, and it looks like pedestrian malls encourage people to walk more. Also, more vehicles on the streets obviously means more pollution of particulates in the air.

[@megaboz42]

@@ericengvall8619 Doesn't any type of mall encourage people to walk though? Fashion Fair is 4 miles north of downtown and is nearly a half mile long. We used to walk up and down the length more than once. Why go there rather than downtown? Because of the stores that Fashion Fair has vs. stores (mainly the lack thereof) in downtown. There's never any shortage of people at Fashion Fair, or Sierra Vista, or River Park. All of these have outside pedestrian mall features to one degree or another; built into the design of River Park from the start around the movie theater and added to Fashion Fair and Sierra Vista as times changed and expansion was done.

[@pongop]

@@megaboz42 Good point. But speaking for myself (different than most), I hate indoor malls, so I don't use them. I used to go to the Fulton Mall, however (before they changed it -- now I don't go anymore). With parking on the outside of the Fulton Mall, even more walking was required. So I did get some exercise by using the Fulton Mall, and I don't from indoor malls. I also used to ride my bike through the Fulton Mall, which was safer and more pleasant than taking the downtown streets, and I also got exercise that way. Also by strolling/biking the Fulton Mall, I got to enjoy the fountains, artwork, and historical monuments.

[@allgoo1964]

No shopping center, shopping mall will work unless there are customers to spend money. Work on the economy first. Not the other way. Restore the income equality.

[@MariusRenn]

But why? As a European it is difficult for me to understand why these pedestrian malls fail in the USA when they work so well in Europe and even Asia... pretty much anywhere else. What makes one successful and the other fail?

[@indianajoels]

The U.S. is heavily dependent on the automobile. While most of Europe and many Asian countries have excellent public transportation, most American cities do not. California is in the process of creating a high speed rail system but there is a large percentage of the population that's against it. In Fresno and much of the central part of California, land is relatively inexpensive and developers build huge housing developments on former agricultural land. People from larger cities like the San Francisco Bay Area and Los Angeles who can no longer afford the cost of living there, move to to cities like Fresno because the cost of living is so much lower and you can buy a much larger home. This constant expansion leads to the abandonment of older parts of the city.

[@hopeworldstudio]

Lots of land, large single family homes in that area. Not dense enough population. No cool work & live high rises.

[@visethreachsothy6952]

we’re fat nah just kidding

[@tinayork9940]

been here 3 years and NOTHING will save this awful city ... crime rate is higher than the employment rate .... never in my life called 911 and be on HOLD #ThrowTheWholeCityAway

[@tommeier8969]

Sorry to see that it didnt work. Here in Germany pedestrian zones are a story of sucess. Every city has a pedestrian mall. And downtowns are booming. Also people are coming back to downtown there they could find the hole service a city could provide like transportation hubs, doctors offices, restaurant and city life.

[@ProducerJakeyJam]

Tom Meier Though that's not true for every town. Especially smaller low income towns are struggeling with cheap and unattractive shops or empty windows.

[@glx1987]

@@ProducerJakeyJam Fresno has a Population of 500.000 People. This ist bigger then Nürnberg or Zürich.

[@ProducerJakeyJam]

@@glx1987 I don't understand what your point is. However, with are there so many people living there? If it has such a low quality of life, how come that there are so many people living there voluntarily? If there are many job, the town should have a budget to create an attractive living space.

[@ThatOneNerd14]

@@ProducerJakeyJam Simple, its cheap to live in Fresno. I live close to there, and believe me, people live in the city because its so damn cheap in all aspects. Food, housing, etc. The problem is, is that the city devolved into ghettos (sadly). Some residential streets lack street lights, and some streets are broken and unfixed. But, people live there because they can't afford somewhere else to live.

[@NicholasLittlejohn]

Csrs are wheelchairs for Americans.

[@Supadubya]

Fresno's pedestrian mall failed because the city didn't make adequate roadway improvements to get there (such as highway access to nearby parking garages), provide sufficient Mass Transit access to the area, or adequately relax zoning laws in the area so higher-density mixed-use (both residential and commercial development in the same space) development could spring up around the pedestrian mall. ALL of these changes are necessary for a pedestrian mall to succeed. Nobody's going to walk around a pedestrian mall if they have no easy way to get there and live/work too far away...

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Pedestrian streets are pointless unless lots of people live and / or work there.

[@BigDiccNicc]

I'm a teenager and native from Fresno and describing the city is like this... Lots of potential, but never fulfilled. If you want to have downtown up and running again as you reflect on your nostalgia. You have to update the business to current generations liking. Okay there can be some local businesses, but having the whole damn downtown be that is preposterous. Update the theaters to be versatile to movie films, concerts, live action plays, and to any other liking.

[@SonjaHamburg]

That seem to have been the problem. Not the lack of cars.

[@57ttocs]

As someone who has spent significant time in Boulder, Denver, and Aspen in the past five years, I love pedestrian malls! In my opinion they give the city a gathering place and a soul.

[@jppsfingers50]

My grandfather predicted that North Fresno would run its developmental course in 20 years and that when they ran out of room, the developers would come back and cheaply rebuild all the areas left behind, starting with downtown. He told me that in 1992, a year before he passed. He owned a construction company and damn if that isn't coming to pass. Fulton is going to get gentrified to hell. And so will the rest of downtown Fresno.

[@MichaelScottRamming]

I wonder if the downtown Fresno redevelopment will be moderated by the cancellation of the high speed rail phases that would connect to the Bay Area and LA ....

[@shelleygreyrealtor]

@@MichaelScottRamming I was thinking the same thing. I'm hoping they pick the project back up. I think it would benefit many people in the near and long term.

[@danielrose1392]

I don't see any cafes or restaurants with outside seating areas in the video.

[@pro100]

That's what they're hoping for in the near future

[@franksmith2200]

I have a hard time going outside for a sidewalk café when it's 104 degrees out for two and a half months

[@zyxwut321]

The biggest problem is a weak REGIONAL economy. California's a pretty impoverished state once you get away from the Bay Area and SoCal coastline. Fresno initially grew as first an agricultural and then a light industrial center, both outdated elements of a modern economy today. It was already showing its wear and tear by the 1960s when the first revitalization was done. Without fundamentally addressing the core economic problems it won't matter WHAT they do to their downtown area.

[@Cheeseatingjunlista]

Precise and totally accurate - having read many of the other comments I can only assume they have not read yours, rather undermines the more frenzied responses that tend to ignore fact in favour of unsubstantiated binary hostility....

[@ThatOneNerd14]

I live by Fresno, and I agree. Most of the city lacks public lights, and sadly poverty. Many people resort to going to cheap supermarkets. Fresno, as many other cities, fails to change how widespread the economic issues are...

[@robroux6074]

Fresno and the valley are Californias crash crop to feed the US. Fresno is not changing at all as long as the US is giving them subsidies.

[@blad5311]

Alarfin417 I live in Kern County and I have to agree with you a lot of big cities in Central Valley are utterly shit but small cities usually tend to do better

[@pongop]

@@ThatOneNerd14 Very true. If you look up Food Dessert in the dictionary, you'll get a picture of Fresno's north vs south sides.

[@kthomas9641]

My local pedestrian mall, Sparks St was also modelled after the success Kalamazoo, like Fresno it was fairly depressing up until recently. Around 5 years ago the provincial government relaxed the laws around serving alcohol making it easier for restaurants to open licensed patios.

[@Supadubya]

Karen Elizabeth Thomas exactly! Governments need to relax laws holding the downtowns back! They also need to relax zoning laws so that taller buildings with more space for businesses and housing can spring up around downtown centers! Nobody's going to shop downtown if they live way out in the suburbs- there need to be dense housing areas, offices, and other businesses AS WELL AS shops clustered around downtown centers...

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Liquor should be central to all commercial development plans. Secondly, CUT TAXES, YOU FUCKS.

[@alexgraham77]

I live in Ottawa too. Sparks, and the downtown to a lesser extent, is a failure, because our city is nothing but sprawl. With the exception of the Market and Elgin, Downtown is dead after government workers leave to go back to the suburbs at 4 pm. Sparks in particular is a wasteland. We need a concentrated population that lives close to the core, not 9-5ers. That's what makes a downtown vital - people.

[@AsellusPrimus]

I just spent 4 months as a visitor in Ottawa. I definitely saw that the restaurants kept people on Sparks Street, but I also felt like the whole thing is a huge missed opportunity for public space.

[@TheSpecialJ11]

A common thread I'm seeing between successful pedestrian malls and failures has two things. Successful pedestrian malls have good transport to get to the mall, either by car or by foot, and have mixed use, with the businesses on the lower floors and residences and hotels above. Ideally you would also have some form of attraction with regular events, such as a sports stadium. Imagine how easy it would be to have someone come in by rail, eat dinner in the mall, stay in a hotel above the mall, shop around and have lunch in the mall the next day, and then go to the ball game and take the train home that night.

[@pongop]

There were/are underground tunnels underneath all this too! And that history is even more fascinating (and secretive) than the Fulton Mall story.

[@alexbutler9343]

It's a mistake to remove it with the High Speed Rail Station coming.

[@danielboone72]

Having a High Speed Rail is a mistake...........BIG mistake!!!

[@matthewalvis9729]

+danielboone72 why?

[@doujinflip]

It can just as easily be put back in, just add bollards

[@Cameron-hu6hg]

+James Davis the train doesn't go from 'nowhere to nowhere', it will go from anaheim to san francisco, (Which includes the midsize cities like fresno, and the big ones like LA and San Jose) and eventually will span from San Diego to Sacramento. California is not going broke, in fact, the debt to gdp ratio continues to drop. Debt doesn't matter, you could have $1 in debt with a gdp of $2 or $1 trillion in debt and a gdp of $4 trillion. The $1 trillion in debt is twice as good as the $1 in debt, as the gdp ratio is 25% vs 50%. A lower gdp ratio means it's easier to pay it off and handle payments. California's public debt to gdp ratio at the moment in 2017 is about 16%, and is expected to reach 14% by 2020. Also, one of the reasons why the rail cost estimate has skyrocketed is due to factoring in inflation, which influences the cost especially when it's many years behind schedule. If you had to build a system by 2025 that costed $100, ($10 per year), but it was behind schedule so now it's going to be done by 2030, ($6.6 per year), additional inflation applies to the estimate, which at a rate of 2% per year average, it would cost an additional $10.41, bringing the total to $110.41 for 15 years, It's still just as easy to afford as if it were $100 for 10 years, as inflation results in higher overall gdp, which means higher incomes, which means more tax revenue at the same tax rates. The speeds are also going to be 90 MPH for short stretches, 125 for medium stretches, and 220 for long stretches (LA to SF would have an average speed of at least 200MPh, given time for acceleration and deceleration). That will make it one of the fastest trains in the world. Lastly, this project, even if costly, will provide huge benefits for the central valley, as it will provide quick affordable intercity transportation for commuters and tourists, and provide an option for long distance train travel for residents, commuters, and tourists. The only problem with this project may be the ticket prices, as public transport isn't designed to be profitable, it's designed to be economically stimulating and to improve efficiency, congestion, and quality of life, and as a result is and will be subsidized. Maybe it's time for less fox news as your source of information.

[@Locutus]

Awwww but mum... I like Fox News. It's one of the best news stations out there mum! ;(

[@lordoftheflings]

American planners and architects just dont seem to get it and just keep giving us trash and then keep wondering why downtowns dont thrive. Don't they understand that for downtowns to thrive they need just a few simple ingredients. 1.) A critical population density. Downtowns need a critical mass to make the vibrant. but most of that critical mass has to be in people that live there. Right downtown, among the stores and businesses. And two the housing needs to be affordable, not just for the technology manager, but for the the bartender and barista as well. Otherwise you have cold and sterile cities with nothing but glass high-rise condominiums that are empty during the day. 2.) Respect the relationship between the street, and where people live. The people who live downtown should be connected to the streets via balconies, and low enough to the street where they can see whats going on and could yell and be heard by someone down below. (i.e. limit the heights of buildings) 3.) build squares with outdoor seating and cafes and restaurants around the edges. and 4.) have the buildings touch each other. 5.) make it truly walkable with amenities such as bakeries, and restaurants (not just the corporate restaurants but the mom and pops ones as well). 4.) DO NOT design primarily for the car! If you follow those steps you will have truly great and active cities that can survive any recession. Stop giving us big box shopping centers with a sea of parking pavement! Stop giving us shitty strip malls and suburban housing developments!

[@FreewayBrent]

I'm curious to see what happens when that entire strip is redeveloped. I pass through Fresno at least a few times per year, and right now, there's really no true "go-to" district in city that is walkable and full of character. Sure, there are some foodie and coffee gems within the city (I particularly love Kuppa Joy Coffee off North Echo St, and Valparaiso Cafe & Roastery in DT Fresno). The Tower District is probably the closest thing you'll find to an area with character, featuring a concentration of restaurants, bars, cafes, shops, and the historic Tower Theater, but it's still lacking a bit in terms of having more businesses in the area. I suppose Old Town Clovis counts as well, but that's still in a completely separate city. Hopefully the city does the Fulton Street redevelopment correctly, and kicks off a development boom that spreads throughout the rest of downtown. There's a bunch of historic buildings in the downtown core that could be utilized to attract the city's residents. California's 5th largest metropolitan area (I'm lumping in the Inland Empire and Ventura County with Greater LA here) really needs a go-to district. Trendy restaurants, 3rd wave artisan coffeehouses, boutiques, cafes, gastropubs, etc. Stuff that will draw in the crowds and give the city some buzz.

[@yacetube]

Planning should not be only about business: america's long time mistake, still going on, while developed world grows on. This clearly shows America's flawed short term business vision. The country really is all about business and economics. And by nature, it's unstable, it changes all the time! American city neighbourhoods, downtown thriving, then declining, then thriving again... that's america, because of the importance of business and low importance of physical geography, it changes all the time. (whilst european and world downtowns have been more or less lively for centuries. with ups and downs, but weren't abandonned and are lively today, with remaining pedestrian streets, old architecture and old streets grid. American planners always try to look for what is best for business.. Pedestrian street, removing pedestrian street.. putting it back.. who knows, with E.Musk's cars, maybe removing it, and in a 50 years, putting it back again... Whatever time does on cities, cities are still here, don't adapt them to a ephemeral today's economic trend, just make them "better", they're the place you live in! The fact is city planning shouldn't be business planning. It's more complex: business should be taken into acount, but not ONLY. Because, business, work, is a PART of life, but not the only thing. When it comes to building, physical features, city planning, .... planners should be here to give a long term vision, more complexe, less money oriented, looking towards a more idealistic vision: not what business needs right NOW, but, what do we WANT ? Pedestrian, not pedestrian? Pick one goddammit, ... cities are about human beings, not JUST business. Pick a vision of how the world should be, stop changing all the time, or you will never know if what you did was a good idea or not. Give it some time. Cities don't just work or don"t work. Business come on go. Trends, and people, consumers, inhabitants behaviour come and go. Adapt your cities to what you THINK they should be. And wait.

[@MyCamilla1989]

yacetube Americans are like that with everything. Their perception of life is entirely points based. They only care about the score, the ROI and nothing else. I blame the unnecessarily heavy sports games concentration in their k12 and college education.

[@jmurphy1973]

The Sioux City, IA and Iowa City ped malls couldn't be more different. I can't ever remember the Sioux City ped mall ever being busy but with a Big Ten university in the back yard, Iowa City's ped mall is as busy as ever. Granted, it's full of drinks on weekends, but still busy...

[@maxpayne2574]

There's one obvious reason for the failure of pedestrian malls. Most Americans are to lazy to walk 3 blocks. People will drive around a parking lot for 15 minuets just to get a space closer to the store.

[@weareorigin]

I can confirm this story. At yard sales, I've seen people get back into their cars and move it 6 houses down, so they be in reach of their cars. Then get out of the cars again, & continue yard sale shopping.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

More walking and bikes than ever before in the USA.

[@louiscypher4186]

As he noted they can be successful even in america, however this video is a little light on information. The outdoor malls that worked, don't try to attract people to come into the inner city, they take advantage of people already coming downtown and focus on improving the experience so they stay downtown and spend money instead of leaving as soon as they knock off work. Bugger all successful outdoor malls try to compete with large shopping malls, most of them nowadays primarily focus on restaurants and cafes with a handful of boutique stores and maybe a small pub or a nightclub nestled in among it. Occasionally the space is used for small festivals and night markets, etc, etc. But that needs a lot of upkeep and maintenance, no ones going to go downtown just look at the few stores that didn't choose to setup in the nearest shopping centre, you need to give them a different experience then they would get at a shopping centre. Whilst empty fountains and narcoleptic drug addicts is certainly an experience you wont get at westfields, i wouldn't say its the best way to stop people going home asap. As for digging it up, i don't see how that will fix things. The fundamental problem is still there, why should anyone go to main street?

[@ThatOneNerd14]

Sort of true, but do you how far and dangerous downtown is from a residential zone in Fresno? The whole area is full of bums and gang violence, sadly. Sure laziness is part of the problem, which is why people choose to go to places nearest to their homes. Fulton mall is too deep into Downtown, and is also dangerous when comparing it to a walmart right by your house.

[@boulderarchitect]

I'm from Boulder Colorado, and the mainstream there is still a walking mall. Pearl Street is still beautiful. I don't think they'de ever remove it, especially since the downtown is really thriving.

[@pev789]

I live in Fresno and I never go downtown there’s nothing to do there, only to get parking tickets lol

[@billducas]

Once Fashion Fair Mall was built, that was the end of downtown Fresno. No amount of upgrades or money will bring it back.

[@mattwales2734]

Boulder, Colorado's Pearl Street Mall is successful, with it's art galleries. It has plenty of parking just a block or two off the mall itself. Denver's 16th Street Mall is also successful, but it has a dedicated electric bus line running up and down it. I'm surprised most of the malls have failed. It seems like an easy solution, but maybe not so much.

[@christianlibertarian5488]

Lots of places built pedestrian malls. Seemed like a good idea at the time. They just don't work if you don't build the highways and parking spots, as the original architect planned. Of note, shopping malls are also closing around the country.

[@NolePTR]

Down in Palm Beach Gardens, the Whole Foods and surrounding shops is an outdoor suburban mall. It's like they said "screw it" and built a "pedestrian mall" to save money. They even called it "downtown", but it's out and away in it's own purpose built area. They really like outdoor pedestrian malls down here because space is limited. They just build it next to the road and have that much more space for shops without making boring, copy+paste strip malls.

[@hebneh]

The fundamental and huge changes in retail in general have a lot to do with this situation. Look at the stores that were originally on this street when the mall was built; how many of them still exist? Woolworth's, Singer, Grants - either long-gone or only a shadow of what they once were. And these were often the "anchor stores" (to use a shopping center term) for many downtowns. And now, the same process that decimated downtowns is occurring at numerous shopping malls which themselves wiped out downtowns. Evolution in populations and the resulting changes in land use are constant and sometimes unstoppable.

[@pmexplore]

Can you do a series on cities in the USA that have mixed spaces? The USA does not seem to have mixed spaces so there is no good foot traffic anywhere.

[@danielaguilera474]

It's a very strange downtown. I grew up around it. It's not very centralized but pulls u in with its dystopian vibes and surprises, like chinatown. It's fun to bike around with a friend on the weekend when it's not Hot🥵 There's always something.

[@raygv12]

Fulton Mall improvements came out amazing. Definitely brought a lot more activity to the area.

[@aponcedeleon7428]

Think about it, a PEDESTRIAN mall you have to DRIVE to. That’s why they’re not working. Build up! With housing surrounding and above the pedestrian malls. Incorporate parks with the mall. Stop separating and spreading everything out 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@alexisbensalting8862]

The problem with majority of US cities is they are built around cars rather than built around people. If you want a successful downtown, you need to entice people to the whole area rather than a selected road.

[@mattherndon9317]

Cool video. Just visited pedestrian malls in Charlottesville and Ithaca in the last month. Hoping more cities get back on this kick cause they were both amazing.

[@zombie7770]

Since you did a video of them taking out the pedestrian mall. Now that the construction of the street portion of things is complete. It would be nice to see a follow up video on this Fresno downtown Fulton district. Although I was initially not supporting the idea of turning the mall into a street. I am pleasantly surprised that it seems like it's been handled in a very respectful way preserving the old artwork and at the same time opening up new business opportunities. Downtown is still walkable and hopefully more accessible and the streets can be blocked off for street and music festivals and events. Tech companies are also locating in downtown like Bitwise Industries and Fresno Ideaworks. About a year from the street being reopened I am seeing a transformation of not only the Fulton street,but also the surrounding area as well.

[@rylieboll8488]

I didn’t know my hometown had the first indoor shopping mall. I guess that’s what happens when you move 1250 miles away. Yet another city beautiful video that made me interested in something I didn’t even know I could be interested in!

[@pongop]

Fresno has an amazing history but nobody talks about it. Some of my favorite places: Forestiere Underground Gardens, Chinatown underground tunnels, Zapp Park, and Tulare Lake.

[@42042O]

I just found this channel yesterday. It's great!!!! Thanks :)

[@migo-migo9503]

They key is bringing the creatives. If they can attract the creative community to that area, it'll attract all other people. The creatives will bring the cool factor back and the rest will follow.

[@maumor2]

Update: it didnt work as planned Downtown still not really a desirable location after all that money wasted

[@wmtrader]

The pedestrian mall in Sacramento (the K Street Mall) was doing OK when I was a teenager in the 1980s (full of discount shops) and the Downtown Plaza was doing well (department stores and nicer shops) but when light rail was routed through the K Street Mall the shops along K street starting closing and eventually the Downtown Plaza failed as well. The K Street Mall was originally car free but a number of years back cars where once again allowed onto the K Street Mall in hopes it would improve business, it didn't. Many cities have moved to making their downtown more pedestrian friendly by replacing 4 lanes of traffic with 2 lanes of traffic (slows down cars), using the unused lanes for angled parking (increases parking) and adding landscaping at the corners and at the crosswalks (narrows the road and makes it safer to cross), see downtown redevelopment in Livermore California. I think what Sacramento needs to do is to route light rail down H street, remove the tracks from the K Street Mall and redevelop the K Street Mall in the same way that Livermore redeveloped First Street.

[@chrisnorman9980]

Those gigantic over-scaled concrete fountains and pyramids they built down the middle of K Street in the 60s were hideous and, at night, made the street look dark and dangerous. At least, now, with the construction of new housing and conversions of old buildings to mixed use development,?Sacramento will have more of a customer base for stores and restaurants. Before, as soon as the state employees and office workers went home to the suburbs, there was no reason for them to drive back into downtown. Downtowns must be made into their own “neighborhoods” if they are to ever have a chance for success again.

[@BlueHen123]

You can't one size fits all for every city. I'm in Fresno and can report removing the pedestrian street has not worked and I can tell you why. In the old days, people lived near downtowns, had their jobs near downtowns and did their shopping near downtowns. This has changed. Now, aat least for Fresno, downtown is merely a place for government with City Hall, Courts and other associated business. The buildings are old and not much space for growth. Most businesses want new, fresh areas. Also, most want to be near the customers who are also choosing to live in newer areas, farther away from downtown. The city hoped to "revitalize" downtown was a mistake in thinking. It will never go back in time to what it was, because America will not go back to that way. Instead, they should have maximized downtown for what it is, a civic center of sorts. Building the ballpark was nice and a pedestrian mall would work great with it. So it's ironic the two happened near the same time. Any money spent on downtown is a waste. Unless it's to demolish the empty buildings and turn the land into parks...or perhaps a prison.

[@hmmm7150]

@BlueHen123 I agree. In my opinion the US should instead allow mixed use buildings in residential areas if they want to see people out walking, socializing and shopping.

[@mobilityproject3485]

We had a pedestrian mall in Worcester, MA, called the Worcester Center Galleria, and it was removed in the 1990's, following the construction of the Auburn Mall in the sprawling southern part of Worcester. It could *not* compete.

[@mrlover4310]

I bet the local councils did not lower taxes and rent for businesses. But ripping up a road or putting pavement is best solution.

[@KJParadise]

I was thinking about pedestrian malls when you said they weren't successful. I was thinking, "But the cities I've lived in, like Iowa City and Denver, had great pedestrian malls!" Then you mentioned them. :)

[@jamesberry8034]

Thanks for your videos. I just discovered your channel this evening, and I'm really enjoying what you do!

[@mr51406]

The problem with pedestrian city malls is that nobody wants to be a pedestrian. Even when (especially when) they’re in a privately owned (sanitized) suburban shopping mall. (And they fail too, where is that statistic?) Only poor people are pedestrians. The only malls that work are those that have some sort of fashionable or trendiness value. One mall that seems to work is Church Street in Burlington, Vermont. But Vermont is a deeply blue state... (I’m a geographer, btw. Great video, great channel!)

[@whechi]

Why would any city get rid of pedestrian space..... As populations increase, the solution to transportation is definitely NOT the car.

[@fresnofultonartmall3995]

This is the Fresno Fulton Art Mall channel replying. Yes we wholeheartedly agree. Please check out our films describing the real unvarnished history and demise of the Fulton Art Mall. The truth is shocking and sad. FultonMall.org

[@karlwjm]

The Mall was a dangerous part of Fresno, especially at night. Getting rid of the pedestrian mall and putting back traffic was the best thing Fresno ever did.

[@MrGeocidal]

The pedestrian mall in my city is still bustling with crowds of shoppers.

[@tonybobay6276]

As a resident of Denver, the 16th Street Mall is a crazy place sometimes. It has a terrible stigma amongst suburbanites especially, but the city generally despises the place as well. Basically like a less intense, more linear Times Square. The only reason people frequent it is because a completely free rapid shuttle service supports the entire length and makes it the most efficient route through downtown if you are walking. Guaranteed quick passage with 1-3 minute intervals makes it the go-to when downtown, but the Generica "big brand" shops with generic overpriced offerings and/or the congregate of beggars and pan-handlers in a pedestrianized setting is not why most people usually come down there.

[@regularcommonyoungman1011]

How are ya from Fresno California

[@youp9543]

check out the Lincoln Road Mall in Miami Beach, very popular.

[@mikeh3189]

Successful pedestrian malls need at least one of the following to succeed: A) A nearby college population (preferably one within walking distance) B) A reliable stream of tourists C) Surrounding downtown streets that are not closed off and open to parking D) A large downtown residential population E) A large downtown If you do not have at least two of these things, then do not attempt a downtown pedestrian mall

[@ChilapaOfTheAmazons]

Did anyone ask why some pedestrian malls have been extremely successful while others have failed?

[@CityBeautiful]

That's a great question, and one that's difficult for researchers to answer. There are people working on it, though, and I plan on doing a follow-up if their conclusions are interesting.

[@legoshaakti]

I like what Madison, Wisconsin did about state street, its main pedestrian mall. Instead of building an expensive new space, they just closed off the street to cars. Today, state street is thriving.

[@eboulangerie89]

Your map forgot about Memphis having one. It added a pedestrian mall along it's Main Street called the "Mid America Mall" (now just the "Main Street Mall") in 1976 and it added trolleys along it in 1993. Businesses did die off due to several factors, one of which was the lack of vehicular traffic and parking, but mainly due to crime and lack of people living downtown/wanting to visit. Forty years later the northern end of the mall is still kind of stagnant, but the southern end has a bunch of restaurants and on a typical evening there are plenty of people out on it. Also along it and the whole thing has apartments/condos (one of which I live in). It is very walkable/bikable and if you want to drive a car, you just go a block over. I think it would be a mistake to remove the mall. The use of the street with/without the mall probably wouldn't change.

[@SonjaHamburg]

WHAT? Bringing cars back wont fix anything! Every town here has a pedestrian zone and they are the life of the city. But they need interesting shops

[@TVegaC]

should do a combination of both! ample space for a pedastrian sidewalk with parkings and a low speed street

[@CityBeautiful]

That's what they have planned. We'll see if it works.

[@adamben-shimon7513]

My home town of Las Cruces, NM did the same thing. They built the downtown mall in the early 1970’s I believe and it helped for a few years. But in the 1980’s through 2015, the downtown mall was always dead and it was only used on Sundays for the farmers’ market. They removed the mall in 2016 and now it looks a lot better and the downtown is slowly coming back to life. Now I live in Denver and he is right, Denver’s 16th Street Mall is always full of people and it looks really nice and lively. Boulder’s pearl street mall is also popular.

[@pongop]

Dear City Beautiful -- Cool video! Two fascinating Fresno places and history (if you're interested) -- Forestiere Underground Gardens! And the Chinatown Underground Tunnels! Both of which Fresno didn't care to preserve, and actually demolished most of. But at least we have what we have left.

[@Hako2004]

I have avoided going downtown in Fresno because the streets are a confusing maze, and some streets change from one-way to two-way to add to the confusion...and then there is the parking issue, and parking meters. I just don't have coins in my car.

[@kairon156]

I love this channel. I have a general interest in infrastructure and I've been learning so much through your videos.

[@HappyfoxBiz]

In Adelaide,we have a pedestrian mall, it's one street that's dedicated to shops, it was opened long ago, it's still popular today not because it's the only one but because it's constantly being maintained and revitalised, the street is packed almost every day and it shows that if you constantly put effort into it and keep it as a premium location and not just another pedestrian mall you can make it work long after it's expected lifetime. When you improve a city you can't just sit back and say "we are done" because that's when the sewerage starts to back up, Chicago failed miserably because it put all it's cards into stacks that they expected to last more than the lifetime but it failed because of that and other stupid things that it has done. So in the end, keep your city exciting and maintained while managing things for the future to come, even if you're wrong... you can have fun being wrong when the people are excited

[@Randomaited]

The seemingly obvious way to revitalise urban centres is to make them actually affordable places to live (so at least rent control, but a better/more sustainable option is transferring land and property ownership to community land trusts so residents are in control of their own living conditions), with both the public services and employment opportunities within walkable/short public transport distance (so also having inexpensive or free public transport that gets people to where they need to be quickly). If you make cities places people can actually live and want to live, they'll do well.

[@johnm9548]

Year's ago Jackson Michigan also put in a main street pedestrian mall ... it was a total disaster! Years later they tore it out and little by little the downtown is coming back to life.

[@johnpilge9249]

I remember the Fresno Mall as a kid. It was never as crowded like the images shown. On Sundays, it was almost deserted. Even the trams didn't run on Sundays. I left in 1968.

[@pongop]

I think its busy days were the 70s through 90s. I went to the Fulton Mall from around 2009 (after moving here) to a few years ago when the city re-opened the streets. I did shopping, eating, hanging out, biking, music shows, etc at the Fulton Mall. It wasn't super busy, but people still went there, and there were several businesses, restaurants, and food carts. You could get good deals there. There was an indoor swap mall with multiple vendors with booths. It kind of reminded me of shopping in other countries. It was pretty cool. Since they re-opened the streets a few years ago and some of the older businesses closed, I don't go anymore. I hate indoor malls so I don't go there either.

[@IgorRockt]

If you want to know how to actually build a "Pedestrian Mall" (which is btw probably the most stupid name somebody could have given to a shopping street reserved for pedestrians), look no further than the "Hohe Strasse" ("High Street") and the "Schildergasse" in Cologne, Germany. THIS is how you create a pedestrian space which works! See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohe_Stra%C3%9Fe and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schildergasse Quote: "The Schildergasse is a shopping street in central Cologne, Germany, and with 13,000 people passing through every hour, it is the busiest shopping street in Europe, according to a 2008 survey by GfK."

[@chipskylark5500]

Boy what I would have given to be there to see Mayor Ashley Swearengin when she was swearing in to office

[@dougules]

It would be interesting to do a follow-up to this video.

[@matthewbenavides7694]

I am from Fresno it did not work. Downtown has a confusing pattern of streets that makes it still hard to access with many one ways. Further those of us who live out of the area can access similar shops often closer to us. There is not much reason to go eat sushi there for example when there are plenty of places near me.

[@Ric-Phillips]

A pretty one dimensional account of trends in public spaces, and particularly Gruen’s work and influence. For example no mention of how he was prevented from realising his full design for Southdale, how vehemently he renounced malls in his later career, and how the same factors prevented him realising his vision for urban renewal - of which the Fresno mall wall only one project. It comes down to the factors by which “renewal” I’d defined. Not stated in this video explicitly, but nonetheless implied that retail activity is the real indicator. References to public artwork not withstanding. The question of whether urban renewal is possible in a wider context of functional fragmentation (a criteria for defining sprawl) is possible. The soft rhetoric about the capability of civil leaders to make decisions is a little disingenuous. The interesting question is whether civil leaders are capable of seeing the problems of urban spaces outside the narrow bounds of commercial activity. The town squares of Gruen’s pre-war Europe, which drove his enthusiasm for renewal and reform in the US were not simply nicer places to shop. They were more integrated ‘third spaces’ in which the more complex functions of a city’s culture could be performed. The difference between failing strip malls (carless or not) and shopping centres and public spaces that work is predicated on the intention they serve... do they provide any reason to be there, if you are not interested in spending money?

[@JohnMFlores]

Interesting points, Ric Phillips, but this is a video about Fresno, not Gruen, so the focus on local leaders and their intersection with larger trends is of interest. And perhaps the focus on retail activity as the primary measure of success is too much, but there is a valid point here, that the loss of retail activity is what caused the decline of downtowns in the first place. Yes, other civic/non-retail activities are nice but not always necessary. On the other hand, retail activity is necessary.

[@erwindewit4073]

Yes, it is interesting. Most European cities are transforming or have transformed to a mostly pedestrian area which is friendly to bicycles as well (no, not cyclists). But you would need public transport links into the area and lots of traffic has never made anyone happy. Besides, it turns out that it's actually better to have multiple modes of transport throughout a city centre, and therefore cutting down the area for cars and parking (well, parking garages also work). So it would quite surprise me if more traffic through the street and area would actually revitalise anything. It would just make it more polluting and dreary...

[@jfjf-yn6wj]

hey if you are gonna get rid of the mall might as well just get rid of the whole city while your at it

[@dalex60]

The Numb-Nut Supremes who planned this redux, failed to include REAL PUBLIC restrooms... Way to go Fresno!!!

[@MaxBrains]

The real mistake wasn't building the pedestrian mall; it was building a beautiful, expensive pedestrian mall that few people would ever have access to because the transportation infrastructure was half-hearted from the start. Freeways and parking lots are expensive and ugly and nasty, and a comprehensive network of public transit is expensive and an anathema to most American municipalities, but either way, people have to be able to GET there.

[@lkm3s]

I think that culturally, American's would prefer to shop in an air conditioned space. Whilst the pedestrian malls have stores that have air conditioning, the time walking around the main street can be uncomfortable. The main street also tends to pull less trendy clothing and goods stores, and have higher priced food options than a mall will. That said, I lived in Charlottesville for 20 years and worked at a firm on the downtown mall for about half of that, and it is a well loved space by the locals.

[@liambean]

Bit of an error here. Gruen didn't invent the concept of an indoor mall and Southdale Center wasn't the first mall in the US. The first indoor mall in the US was the Arcade in Providence, RI, built in 1828. The first modern shopping mall in the US was Northgate Mall in Seattle, built in 1950.

[@VazDraeStudios]

The pedestrian mall here in Madison, WI (State St) has worked out well. They didnt entirely remove the street was the key in Madison. They made the sidewalks much larger, and the street smaller, and set it to no thru traffic. Only traffic on State St being buses, bicycles, and service vehicles. It works quite well and is always busy with people shopping, or going out to eat or drink.

[@davidfreeman3083]

VazDrae Studios Turning a street into no thru traffic. Sounds like a similar idea of the Maplewood mall here in outskirts Philadelphia's Germantown. But it sounds like it's almost a complete fail. Well then I guess some comments are right. It really depends on the neighborhood itself. Anything simply wouldn't succeed in a neighborhood that is continuously being poor and not safe.

[@VazDraeStudios]

It really does all depend on location. State St here in Madison works well. Its at the heart of downtown, right off of the state capitol square, it has tons of restaurants, bars, and shops. And its on the major metro line so getting to it is easy, especially for nearby college students. The end part of it goes into a plaza where the street was removed, and its commonly where food carts are during lunch hours. It really worked out here, but like you said, it depends on where, it wont work everywhere.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Governments shouldn't be able to restrict forms of traffic on streets. It violates the common law foundations of dedicated right of ways.

[@useodyseeorbitchute9450]

OK but the revitalization plan is based on idea of persistently stimulating local economy by using federal money to turn street in to walking zone and back? Should work, if done every few years ;)

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

I know this video is old, but the problem with removing pedestrianized space is you're expecting people to magically begin driving on roads nobody's been able to drive on in 50 years. Unless the former downtown mall roads provides a shortcut to somebody's destination, you probably won't see much new traffic on it.

[@riley_oneill]

You had some great footage of my Downtown Riverside Mall from back in the day. I feel we had a very interesting issue with our downtown mall. During the business week the legal industry and government workers and other office workers take up nearly all of the parking downtown. So businesses are struggling to do daytime business because of the lack of customers. Customers don't show up because parking is difficult and often expensive. However at night and on the weekends parking is generally plentiful and free. But for whatever reason its not the huge destination it could be. However, something that is now starting to change is that they are building housing on the mall. One building in particular has a ground level that is commercial and then 5 or so floors (I believe its around 100 total bedrooms) above it. So now the commercial area is slowly becoming a neighborhood and its not just a place where people work or perhaps do a little bit of shopping but a place where people live. My only issue is that I think it should have been 12 floors and 250 bedrooms and they need to build several more along the mall so there is perhaps 2000-3000 people living on the mall. The idea is not for people to drive from the suburb to downtown, fight for a parking space, pay for parking, and then experience the mall but instead people already live there.

[@julienbelair6524]

I've heard rumors that Richmond VA is considering pedestrianizing a street.

[@cameron7938]

Imagine throwing a party and celebrating taking out a pedestrian area to open it up for cars lmaoo

[@yggdrasil9039]

Pedestrian areas, higher density and mass transit connectivity - you need all three of those together, not just one by itself.

[@catbert911]

spoilers: it didnt save the downtown. I liked the charm, now its gone.

[@timdella92]

If it has no parking spaces or metro stations or even interesting shops. It would be revitalized. It doesn’t matter if the mall is there or not.

[@Arjay404]

Removing the pedestrian mall isn't going to do anything and will only be money thrown away. Pedestrian malls work in Europe, so the issue isn't pedestrian malls. What is killing malls is online shopping, especially in the US where most people buy their stuff online, In Europe much fewer people buy stuff online, but it's still happening. So what needs to be done is to give people a reason besides shopping to go downtown, something they can't get online. Things like libraries, parks, music venues like outside concert halls, sports facilities, outdoor eating cafes, etc.

[@EVENINGWOLF666]

If they REALLY want to help the downtown area they should get rid of the blasted parking meters, OR make so that you can park for longer periods of time before you have to put more money into them. Those meters were part of what killed the mall before, along with the renovation of the Manchester Center mall and the construction of Fashion Fair. No matter what stores are down there (and they need to create some kind of incentive for opening businesses down there) the parking meters will keep people away, always have, always will. My late Kung Fu instructor knew that the downtown area wasn't a good place for a business so that even when they offered him a space rent free and paid utilities for a year, he turned them down. No one really wants to go downtown unless the absolutely have to and that isn't likely to change anytime soon.

[@scose]

Raleigh, NC converted its pedestrian mall to streets around 2005 and it became one of the main nightlife areas in the city. Not sure why the effect was so dramatic because traffic gets congested at night and most people park on the perimeter and walk in anyway.

[@johnlabus7359]

It's not about whether or not an urban pedestrian mall ushers in success or failure, it's about whether or not there are people downtown or not. If nobody wants to be there, what happens with a specific street alone isn't going to change anything. That said, if people "believe" that a change will do sometime, they are likely to get an initial response by the public to the change. It would seem to me that It's how carefully the initial response to the change is nurtured that will predict its success or failure. If a city fails to establish the initial enthusiasm and "belief" before the change, it will likely be doomed.

[@midnightdangerfield2758]

I live in Edina Minnesota and I live about 10 minutes from the Southdale Mall but I never knew it was so important!

[@paulbroderick8438]

People are just tired of purchasing stuff they never really wanted, or needed, in the first place. The number of current vacant malls is staggering.

[@howtubeable]

Memphis turned Main Street into a pedestrian mall, and it was (and still is ) a disaster. Corrupt politicians and corrupt contractors have become rich. Ugly statues have rusted and been removed. Downtown Memphis is currently a sterile and empty place. On rare occasion, a sporting event will bring massive crowds downtown, but the effect is temporary.