FROM ABOVE! - Skey vs Paralyze, Game 6 | CK

Terran vs Protoss - CK Survivor Series Semi Finals - Game 6
Want to support ArtosisCasts? / artosis
I stream 5 days a week, check me out:
→Twitch: / artosis

[@sebastianosuch273]

I played Brood War at the elementary school 25 years ago. One day, who knows why, KZbin proposed me a Broodwar game cast. I’m with ArtosisCasts for more than a year now.

[@Winnetou17]

Sometimes, the algorithm actually works!

[@stefanfilipov7254]

Same here lol, it's just I've been with Artosis a little longer :)

[@Girthbrooks715]

Same, it was the very first video game I played when I was like 7 with my older brother in 2000. The one day, for some reason KZbin suggested GGG and Artosiscasts. I’ve been back on SC content ever since

[@arthurp.4272]

Same here !!!

[@depot-lb8hl]

Not much different for me, but previously I watched Klazart and Diggity and Nukethestars. Props to Artosis for sticking around! The analogy with legos in this cast was kinda funny, but it's true, these BW games are still curious and worthwhile and the way to play somehow continues to evolve.

[@briancorbett3600]

Love the consistency of casts - really makes my work days more palatable!

[@aaronliedka7242]

Absolutely phenomenal game! Skey really puts up one hell of a fight the whole way through. Really excited for the next match.

[@fencserx9423]

Magnus will deviate from theory only when it makes sense to deviate. He still allows himself to be predictable in the opening. For example, MC will play the marshal opening as black EVERY TIME he faces a Ruy Lopez because it’s ridiculously hard to play against. So much so that it has forced “Anti-Marshal” lines to become common to avoid the complications. The formation of anti-marshal lines doesn’t change that he plays it EVERY time because it’s THAT good. And that’s the gas steal. It’s not your only build because you can’t play it every game, but when you CAN play it, you do play it, and force the opponent to deal with it

[@dimayurchenko4859]

Thank you for videos, different formats, tournaments, and ladder as well, for all

[@jermainejohnson3953]

❤❤❤ Breakfast and Starcraft. Couldn't be better🎉

[@aaronliedka7242]

Made pancakes with cookie crisp and cocoa pebbles in the batter. In right here with ya, although several hours later hahahah.

[@bartonfang]

Sun Tzu art of war concepts can dedicated to almost all strategic development. And one concept in frontal conflict is to have the enemy follow your pace so that you can always keep the initiative on your side. Even general concept of SC of beating your opponent economically was summarized as always putting your army in a spot of not being defeated instead of winning. Though I think SC evolves around the map design, since the basic interaction between the races has been figured out for ages. Map distance and path of attack really pushes the new builds so to speak. I personally think every modern map is to balance Terran performance against P/Z, since tank is such a powerful zoning unit while the rest of terran army has a very hard time to secure a base into mid game. if the map is too narrow and short, then tank just dominates, whereas if the map is too big and wide then terran just get out marcoed-economically. I recommend doing an experiment, where we do "newer" builds on old maps, and see if they work just as well. If they don't, then it is more of a map influencing strategy not necessarily players becoming "better".

[@QT-Sei]

This is sound thinking. Siege tanks (and to a lesser extent, other splash like reavers/lurkers) are, in addition to pathing, why more open maps are more prominent.

[@ferencdojcsak8576]

This was much more intense and back-n-forth than expected, but I absolutely dig it. Just like the competition format and you efforts!

[@iqless7313]

I agree, I like all types of BW games but my favorite is the longer, back and forth type

[@monkleyt]

I like that you draw the parallels between StarCraft and chess. Tempo is a chess term, but absolutely applies to StarCraft

[@MarcoAshford]

I also play chess and poker and SC. Something about these games are related in strategy. This is where men get their joy from.

[@bjornljsswe]

Love the variety in games and scenes lately. Keep it up!

[@kundogb]

What a game, such a clean game from both, beautiful to watch!

[@Fanelan053]

Excellent work Toss

[@TuEIite]

Great game, good back and forth for map control, good rectangle theory.

[@FarmI3oy]

Just what I needed to wake up to.

[@pointlessmanatee]

YOU STOLE MY FIRST COMMENT REEEEEEEEE

[@KuraiChanZ]

Seems like Skey broke off too many tanks to destroy the bottom left base, especially when there were basically no probes there during the mid-ish game. That on top of spreading too thin.

[@sigmarick840]

Great Content!

[@buneuocheng678]

This game is tight, Skey almost had it. After the shuttle drop, definitely Paralyze had the great advantage. Nice job defending the bridge.

[@attention_shopping]

gg, great wp from both

[@CR-un7wl]

The ability to force a deviation in strategies definitely leads to more chaos, I love those kinds of moves and I generally think that if you can do it without forcing yourself into an all I situation it should be used.

[@blizzfreak245]

I actually think your metaphor with chess fits that if you should gas steal. Magnus forcing opponents out of opening theory into something he is more comfortable with is exactly how a gas steal feels to me.

[@beaustebbings6968]

In terms of chess theory and in star craft it makes sense to get your opponent into an unfamiliar position. I think following the first basic moves is important in both though.

[@Zandros]

I love playing chess and I agree that opening memorization is something I don't find particularly fun. The problem is it's required so make sure you don't instantly lose your games. Starcraft openings are the same. You basically need to memorize openings so you know what your opponent is doing now, intends to do in the future, and so that you know when you break the opening you are doing it safely.

[@abacadabra9161]

New upload..."ah yeah! That's the stuff"!

[@MrTBSC]

well ... that was quite the grindfest alright ...

[@eZeero]

AYYYYY! Niceeeeeeee ❤❤

[@blastedt]

I swear we used to see a lot more arbiters than we see today

[@Casual_Stroll]

Wrt putting games in weird states and winning that way I can't speak for a pro level perspective but I climbed plenty of the way from Bronze to Masters in SC2 with that approach. Just focused on trying to overtax them and make mistakes happen on their end and those were some of the most fun games.

[@jackbaxter-williams8059]

Economic win. It seems so weird but makes so much sense.

[@pearlscott4273]

@artosiscasts regarding chess, Starcraft is too different to make a comparison in this regard. For something like a gas steal compared to chess move order novelties, chess is pure strategy while Starcarft has math and strategy. It's mathematically effective to steal gas a result of the exchange between the assimilator expenditure and the lost mining time of SCVs. The other effects, like pressure and delayed build orders are more strategic.

[@jamesgraessle7295]

Hey RT! A thought on magnus' opening deviations and how they could apply to starcraft openings. In chess, deviating in the opening should be good for your opponent if both sides continue optimally, but humans do not play chess (and certainly not starcraft) perfectly. The idea is, the player that is more comfortable with the position is likely to make fewer, and less serious mistakes. I'd say whenever you make an opening decision in chess or starcraft, that's not "optimal," it can be justified if you're getting some sort of advantage in relative player comfort. As an example, i can think of a few terran pros that are very uncomfortable getting their gasses stolen, and will therefore decide to take a slight disadvantage in order to block this. I could imagine a protoss player, who, for example, isn't comfortable playing in a situation where he goes to steal the gas but terran cancels the SCV and blocks the gas steal. This isn't good for terran, so protoss likely won't want to spend a lot of time preparing for it, but if that situation is simply more uncomfortable for the protoss than the terran, i could see wanting to simply avoid that line altogether, and play a normal game. Thanks for the game, as usual =)

[@jambootful]

Loving the tvp fest thanks for the casts artosis! Random question but do you think youll start streaming on youtube as well at some point?

[@eulogp9888]

Honestly, by far the worst matchup and overrepresented on this channel. The terrans basically use the same 4 unit army all the time without exceptions.

[@jambootful]

@eulogp9888 I mean thats just your opinion man. I've been enjoying this showcase of talent between players I dont know or know very little of. Also artosis' energy and passion for the game comes out in his casting from attention to game details, love for players performances and micro events really is the icing on the cake for me. Really think artosis' service to Starcraft over the years is an incredible thing and I still enjoy watching him play or cast brood war after all these years. Phenomenal.

[@swampybwoy]

Wow epic game

[@sk8rboy177]

With respect to the opening theory stuff at the beginning. In most strategy games (for me chess and MTG) you would way rather have the initiative because if your opponent missteps while you have initiative, they die. If you misstep the game goes to even. The gas steal forces the Terran player to respond perfectly or the game can quickly spiral out of control. Plus, even if they do handle it well, the only thing the terran gets out of the bargain is an even game. Unless there are specific gas steal punish builds, most protoss should be gas stealing almost all the time.

[@perfectman3077]

I think you're overrating the gas steal.

[@nathanspeidel9195]

Arty is there any way to watch you cast the ASL games this year??

[@ArtosisCasts]

Yes they are all on AfreecaTV ‘s KZbin

[@Vognee]

Perfect

[@DAR0k88]

Magnus Carlson is right when it comes to weird/alternative strategies. Foundational strategies are good, but a player that practices/plays unique strategies has the advantage of knowing their weird strategy, while the enemy doesn't know it, and you know the enemies strategy. It reminds me of fog of war, where a weird strategy "creates" fog of war and causes the enemy to play blind, and it causes them to now play unpracticed even if they are playing the standard build. The standard build might be weak to the off-meta build, but of-course it requires a lot of effort to know deviant strategies while also being able to play standard if needed.

[@iqless7313]

Talking about parallels between chess and BW... I think Kramnik and Artosis are a lot alike when they play their games - when Kramnik loses he accuses the other person of cheating or not playing the game 'correctly' and Artosis, well.....

[@MrTBSC]

so what i am wondering about this format if any of the teams lose with the winner going against the zerg team will the losing team still have a go on the zerg team as well afterwards?

[@felixmolin5488]

I definitely do comparisons between beautiful strategy games like BW and various other games and sports. There's also surprising amounts of crossover from BW concepts to my work as a critical care nurse. When trying to save a critically ill or wounded patient you often have to make quick decisions with incomplete information under pressure while being mindful of how you spend your time. Do you micro or macro? Do you secure another IV or reevaluate the settings on the respirator?

[@CaptainXD]

Might not be fully understanding this, but why didn't Skey commit resources to establish a 4th base rather than target Paralyze's 5th/6th? Feels like he had enough units to defend a 4th, and even if he put himself out of position at least he's increasing his income to an extent and enabling a larger army in the future.

[@Neveragain905]

What a great game that was. I know its not like a super epic game or anything but man skey is a scraper. For terran only being on 3 bases against 5 base almost 6 base protoss at 1 point skey really put up a great battle even killing 2 bases of protoss to even out the game. Terrans tactical postions where very smart in that game extending the game longer than it should have in my opinion

[@alejandromedina3790]

Arty you good? Acid reflux ? IBS ? Indigestion?

[@Sciolist321]

You want to put your opponent in positions that they are unfamiliar with, but that you know well. So if every protoss gas steals, you should not: you've played tons of games without it, and your opponent has played few. And of course, vice versa. There'll be a Nash equilibrium on the correct rates that you should gas steal, but you can't calculate that equilibrium because you don't know the advantage you gain from being in familiar vs unfamiliar game states. But given that most people are stealing (assuming it's neutral expectation by now), the correct play is to exploit that by not. Let's say that gas stealing is positive expectation - well, that expectation has to be greater than the one from gained from forcing your opponent into a position they don't know and you do.

[@perfectman3077]

It's only really viable on 2 player maps, so both sides will have practiced their builds with and without it.

[@Sciolist321]

Yeh, I was thinking about that after posting the comment. What you really need are builds that work better on 2 player maps that don't use gas stealing. I guess proxy 2 gate is one, but you need something that isn't an immediate cheese too.

[@zlatkoduic1893]

gg

[@kbforme]

Artosis. My dog Dirk Nibbler will be turning 14 years old next month on the 9th and I'm hoping you can give him a shout out on that day.

[@TheRubsi]

almost a flawless game from paralyze when it comes to the decision making. Obviously mechanically you never have a perfect game, but any protoss player watching this should be taking notes.

[@russellslaughter2957]

Assimilator definitely needs a nerf

[@alexanderoaks2948]

tts arti is the shit, everyone loved the chinese tournamnet and we all love you. Start to grind ladder again. pls

[@detrockcity3]

photon cannon from downtown lmao

[@tohothewriter8002]

I really wanted to see Skey win, but I'm fine with Paralyze as the victor though.

[@Azuciea]

I think with any competitive like game, people start to tunnel vision and become ignorant to other possibilities. Its something Humans naturally do, and its weird. We need an outside perspective sometimes to see the something thats right in front of our face.

[@IsaacIlIlI]

Hey RT, could you release these without the player names? That way if we watch them back to back, we can watch them like a tournament without being spoiled. I understand these have lower viewer counts so maybe it's not worth it. But perhaps advertising them as 'race war tournament xyz week 1 game 1' will make more people giving them a try. As opposed to when they see an unfamiliar player, and don't click it because it's not a big name player.

[@FlymanMS]

This map is insanely Terran unfavored, but Skey played well. I hope Mihu is going to avenge Terrans on some better map.

[@somecooney5304]

SunTosis :)

[@freehatespeech6804]

On Dark Origin, Terran can predict that gas stealing attempt, and if he gets the timing right, send an SCV to block the ramp at just the last moment. If Terran does this, then it's better for Protoss to not send the probe. Therefore, there is a reason to sometimes not send the probe. However, on Blitz Y, the ramp is too wide, so on that map you can always send the probe.

[@ArtosisCasts]

No that’s not true. You are missing mini by time, and the well micro’s probe beats the scv. It’s still better to send the probe.

[@freehatespeech6804]

@@ArtosisCasts Protoss also loses mining time, and unlike when a probe is in your main early, it's not 2 SCVs not mining vs 1 probe not mining (you don't have to cycle the building SCV). It's just 1 probe not mining vs 1 SCV not mining. What's better than that? 0 probes not mining and 1 SCV not mining. Travel time is also shorter for Terran to the ramp, so Protoss' 1 probe loses more time than Terran's 1 SCV, if Terran psychically gets the timing right. You almost have a marine ready by the time the probe finally gets in, because of vision advantage and high ground advantage.

[@Zmej420BlazeIt]

@@ArtosisCasts you're too caught up in theory

[@alexfriedman2152]

Paralize, Motive, and Ruin are the BEst Protosses who aren't like ASL level. I swear Paralize is like BEst or someone like that. Just eprfect standard Protoss plAy.

[@stevengerrrard]

: )

[@tyvoyt75]

If you aint goonin, you aint livin brother!

[@luccianoedita]

Like this comment just as an appreciation button for the daily casts that Arty puts out for this wonderfully amazing game we keep enjoying trough the years

[@adammckay852]

Broodwar needs a patch so badly 😂🎉 just removing the range from probes and drones will breathe so much new life into the game

[@Winnetou17]

And might break it. It has plenty of life, so far.

[@Ziegfried82]

So you gonna nerf the SCV hp then too? That isn't a small balance change.

[@zeheero]

This game is stupid. the guy sends three ships and he flys all turrents. How is this fair?

[@cyberneticdex69]

ArtosisCasts, hello ... how can i send a video with a map that i made? it is made where player has to get with protoss and there are just enough minerals and gas to make a shuttle and go to expand with a new nexus on a rich mineral and gas field the map has 5 more players, all allied a.i. : 1 p , 2 t and 2 z 1 t and 1 z are just somewhere near and no res. the P player has to make dark archon and mind controll 1 scv and 1 drone to get all 3 races. being in the corner of a map there is only one bridge that unites to a ramp 3 paths where all 3 enemies get to attack the player ... and the rest anti air def. for the incoming hostile air units. overall the map gets you hours of groovy playing... i still have some improvements on it but now im on my 6th version of the map ... lemme know. 🙃

[@NicCagetheDickMage]

wouldnt a gas steal not be a deviation from opening theory? like sure the follow-up is less mapped out and certain but its a pretty standard part of PVT these days.