From the Beginning to Now | Lawrence Krauss | EP 182

[@locutus2962]

I'm a welder, and I listen to JP's podcasts pretty much all day while I weld. It makes me enjoy my job like 5x more than usual. It's like getting a college education while I make money.

[@abudrda]

Totally agree 👍 we shouldn't stop educate ourselves till we die.

[@r.g.1166]

I'm trying to get my son into welding. If you have a little time someday I would like ask you some questions. Peace!

[@devlincummingspas1682]

I’m an electrician. I do the same thing. Hahaha

[@Attackit2113]

Lol same here in Cosmetic Inspection

[@erichschinzel6486]

Funny you say that, feel the same

[@aleksybalazinski]

One of my favorite conversations I've ever listened to so far. It wasn't merely an exchange of ideas but rather a pursuit of truth, and you don't find this in the public discourse very often.

[@hellomate639]

I started getting a little annoyed with Krauss at the end because he kind of just did the annoying thing of getting too allergic to religion to develop an openness enough to discuss it in an abstract sense, without even crossing the threshold to entertain it in a sense that doesn't actually make any metaphysical claims. I worry that such an attitude will hinder the next discussion from being as interesting as possible. I also suspect that attitude is primarily what causes rationalists to persist in their harsh views on religion.

[@danteinferno175]

Peterson and his guest were on a roll in this podcast. They have great synergy. Looking forward to Peterson in the "hot seat" on Krauss' podcast!

[@lazygam3r183]

@@hellomate639 In the beginning after I became an atheist, I too had a strong disregard and contempt for religion. That has definitely changed with time and I now no longer care whether people are religious or not and view religion as key part of our history as a species.

[@Dunted]

@@hellomate639 I think Krauss was suspicious of Peterson attempting to learn as much about theoretical physics as possible, just to learn its ultimate limitations so he could 'smuggle in Jesus' to fill the gaps. Supernatural shenanigans indeed!

[@hellomate639]

@@Dunted I think that's a projection that is rather insulting to Dr. Krauss's intelligence.

[@odinsclone3436]

I spent 4 years with a girl very similar to this,,.we have a kid together and it took me 4 years before I saw the reflection in the smoke and mirrors. I thank God everyday for delivering me from that monstrous woman. I ended up finding the strength and insight to get my daughter and go by listening to your videos here on KZbin and I consume and scrap of information you provide. I've since read two books by you. One them being 1 2 rules to life. I have implemented as much new positive direction into my life and have decided to shoulder as much responsibility I'm capable shouldering alone without loosing mysql'f. And it has impacted my life in so many positive ways. I think back those darkest times. and it's a truly humbling and beautiful time. because from where I'm sitting now all I can see is a chapter in my life necessary to grow my character and my soul into what I now know as my best life. And the best part is my best life gets better every day in some incremental way weather small or large it improves because I don't lay down and go to sleep without improving at least one thing every day in order to make tomorrow and shade better than today. Thank you jordan peterson . I grew up with a single mom addicted to drugs and alcohol I never met my father and it took me until I was 30 years of age before a friend suggested I check you out .and that day at that exact moment you spoke to me in a way nothing or anyone had ever spoke to me before. It truly changed my life just like that. And it was the best most empowering day of my life. There has been some rough times during my evolution no doubt. But I appreciated every moment all the same. I embraced that struggle. I try to be happy to have even been granted the opertunity, and provided with the knowledge, and perseverance to push through those hard times and not only push through them but to grow from them. And learn from them. It's truly remarkable what a simple change in the way you see yourself and interpret your turmoil can and will make in your life just simply by saying no. I refuse to lay down and just accept this . This will not be what I was capable of. This is not my best effort. You changed my life. the first video I watched of yours captivated me and I began consuming anything I could find with your name on it. And implementing it as best I could and it completely changed how I live day to day. How I take each hardship. How i face my deepest fears. I learned how to be a man. And more importantly how control the monster within. How to call on it when I need to be heard. And how to speak with purpose and conviction . Thank you I'm sorry I wrote you a novel but I remember hearing an interview you did and you said when you need to hear positivity that you often turn to comments on your videos. Maybe you will read this . Or better maybe it helps somone else to take the reins in there own life and start making life an opertunity rather than it being there prison like I spent the first 30 years of my life.

[@chrissimpson7634]

"Education shouldn't be based on answers, it should be based on questions." - Lawrence Krauss Very well said!

[@BP7BlackPearl]

@@redmed10 He is saying the teacher should instill in the kids the desire to ask more questions.

[@BP7BlackPearl]

@@redmed10 I have no idea how u come up with that conclusion. Why would it cost more? We already have some teachers who do that and they don't get paid more. Many teachers are just lazy, or get that way. A good teacher is interested in their students as well as the topic. Good teachers voluntarily work overtime without pay cuz they enjoy it.

[@BP7BlackPearl]

@@redmed10 fight for school choice then. Its one of the most incredible things that parents cant choose the school their kids attend, even though they pay for it.

[@BP7BlackPearl]

@Kenneth Schrank The statement doesn't say there are no answers in education, just that it should be BASED on questions.

[@BP7BlackPearl]

U have to have the question first. Some answers are wrong, questions are never wrong. But, the point of the "saying" is, a good teacher will instill curiousity in their students, while giving answers but leading to more questions.

[@simonnevanpaesschen8335]

I admire Jordan Peterson more and more with every podcast . If politicians would be able to debate in such a way , life would be so much better anywhere in the world. I will need to listen a few more times to really grasp it, but what a great source of knowledge and wisdom in these 2 minds . I'm in awe .

[@groundedtruth1358]

That's because you're watching people embody the archetype and it strikes you as admirable. You know from somewhere that acting like that towards each other, and if more people did that, is our best bet in not only surviving but in making the time that we have here in our "quantum bubble of experience," good and aiming at better. Why does that manifest as meaningful to you? that's a deep question - so much fun!

[@stephendesjardins3626]

I am so moved by Mr. Peterson's raging determined refusal to allow the dying of the light. Rage on, sir. Rage on.

[@RussianBot4Christ]

Rage like a toddler running into a semi truck.

[@IrregularPineapples]

@Mark Jones it became very famous after the movie "Interstellar", most people know of the poem thanks to it by now.

[@hellalpha]

@@IrregularPineapples On the soundtrack you have the whole cast reading out the poem.

[@microapple97]

@@RussianBot4Christ Jordan has toddler-brain in some parts, Krauss in others. That's why they're having a conversation.

[@bruceami]

@@vaettra1589 Except there will be no we.

[@RhodieRowley]

I love hearing Jordan speak. I mostly have no idea what he is saying, but I can listen to it all day.

[@NoUsernamae]

That's pretty much most of his fanbase. None of you have any idea what he's saying or if it's correct or incredibly wrong.

[@scratchpenny]

@@NoUsernamae I think that's true of any public figure with a large fanbase. There is always the cult of personality with popular public figures. That doesn't mean those figures don't provide some value, however. People can come away with what they find useful, as has always been done in mass communication. Unfortunately, not everyone is capable of being an intellectual. Nor do they have the time.

[@NoUsernamae]

@@scratchpenny it's debatable. Any public figure that has a following like this provides very little value. People turn them into a projected ideal, get attached to that image, and spend much of their time being emotionally moved whenever they see something for or against what that person has said. Psychologically, having an image to follow is catastrophic because it is an impediment to self knowledge. But of course I'm also no longer just talking about Peterson, like you said, it happens with all, more so with Peterson because anger resonates with people an insane amount in the current times, because we are outwardly civilised, and inwardly a mess, I don't want to go into the details of that but it's a topic that must be explored. These people seem to be helping. But in most cases. They aren't. They're just a placeholder for the collective unconscious to project itself.

[@NoUsernamae]

@We're living in a paradox. I do. I listened to him for quite a while, not because "I loved hearing him talk", but because I wanted to understand his ideas as well as possible since I thought they were very useful, unfortunately or fortunately I found out that wasn't the case. And then I realised most people don't even bother understanding the ideas he tries to spread.

[@theflu6734]

Hahaha yeah seriously, but somehow I always know what he's getting at

[@darthwrath4236]

Lawrence Krauss and Brian Greene are the best theoretical physicist I've ever listened to as a layman who never even took 1 minute of physics class. They let you speak and complete your sentences before correcting you. Genuinely interested to know your questions. Never treat you like an idiot. Which is why I'll always listen to any videos of em. Just found this one, about 57 minutes in and it felt like 5 minutes. You have no idea how hard it is for me to spend more than 10 minutes on a video that's not related with comedy/satire. My ADD seems to just vanish when I listen to Lawrence, Brian, Dawkins and sometimes even Jordan. Thank you for this Jordan. Thank you for making it free as well.

[@handyjordan464]

"Tell Me What You Think About This." Or "Correct Me If I'm Wrong." These show Jordan Peterson's humility and openness to criticisms or refinement of ideas. These are some of his great strengths because they are constructive approaches. They should be printed on T-SHIRT.

[@pretol1]

These are all defense mechanisms of a person subconsciously understands that he shouldn't be talking to Krauss, because all he has to contribute to the discussion is "put your pants on in the morning"

[@jimmytimmy3680]

Anyone can say that. He starts with those ideas in mind but when Krauss or Harris asks Peterson a specific rational question, Peterson doesn't accept ir or attempt to understand it. Specifically, regarding Peterson's need to rationalize fiction and fairy tales of religions, in order to prove its worth in the 21st century, which is miceoscopic, to be fair, close to 0. That is stubborness and not humility.

[@Lulubelle.III.]

These are great things to say throughout a conversation where you shut the hell up and let the other person speak.

[@cannon7135]

@@pretol1 or you just live in a different reality..... you have problems

[@marcinspace]

@@jimmytimmy3680 lol they all dodge each other, have you even been paying attention to their conversations? It is a battle to come to a further understanding of the topic especially when two professionals in different fields are teaching one another different perspectives.

[@skateebee]

I don't think I've ever seen Jordan so excited to speak with someone! Also kudos to him for stepping way outside of his comfort zone!

[@bendavis2234]

He appears so much healthier than in some of his earlier podcasts, emotionally and physically. I hope the continuation of these podcasts serves as something that’s therapeutic to him and aids Dr. Peterson in his recovery!

[@emajinitllc3831]

you must never really watched Jordan then

[@nik4546]

These kind of discussions are desperatly needed these days.

[@dharmabeachbum]

They’re desperate for sure:)

[@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns]

Rob Koons vs Graham Oppy on Schmid’s channel.

[@XeLYoutube]

yea and deforestation monocrop polution of air and water, mass breeding 70 billion animals per year in horrible condition. alot of discussion and action has to be done these days. but we mostly focus on what we care or like. or affect us directly. sounds like we are too much and want too much too. but intelectualy yea. this is amazing and its intriguing how far or deep we can understand the world

[@danteinferno175]

Even though it was 2 hours, it was one of those rare talks that I could have listened even longer.

[@donnafoster5215]

Dr. Peterson’s honest attempt to understand something new is a wonderful model for engaging others. He doesn’t contend, but finds issues where he can get clarity on the topic.

[@thearbivs]

I haven’t seen Jordan Peterson this excited in a while!! Love this conversation

[@Igor_lvanov]

I think, he was excited like a child with John Vervaeke

[@thomasjones9559]

I think Nicole Arbour got him pretty excited 😝

[@unzarjones]

Krauss looked happy to talk to someone not in his field who could understand what he was saying.

[@jamesx2464]

@@thomasjones9559 or he's trying to show his wife that he's just excited for new guests as he was 4 Nicole LOL

[@MrHEDGEFR0G]

B

[@Comicus8102]

You can tell Krauss was impressed with Jordan’s ability to stay with him on some very technical aspects of physics. Jordan didn’t merely skim Krauss’s book, he actually understood it deeply.

[@VanHalensApprentice]

I mean he was tested to have an iq of 150. No surprise there. His mental acuity, especially at the age that he’s at and the drastic recovery he just had to undertake, never ceases to flabbergast me.

[@danielm5161]

Max Tegmark would be a great person in dialog with Jordan.

[@_BirdOfGoodOmen]

@@phasespace4700 cool

[@VanHalensApprentice]

@@phasespace4700 I can totally understand the disdain if you look at it from a purely reductionist and materialistic perspective. Honestly he’s just as much a romantic as he is an intellectual so there’s that as well. Would you mind telling me which idea in particular you disagree with so that we can discuss?

[@mahehahee]

Lol

[@BandasPalette]

Wow, the more I learn the more I know I will forever be a student of life. Great conversation!

[@AntiProtonBoy]

That's a good thing. This means there is always something new and interesting to learn about the world.

[@peaceislam1204]

.. but the question is, would it be beneficial to you..

[@JesusNOTreLIEgion]

continue your education as a student by listening to an opposing view provided by Dr. Stephen C Meyer. Just put his name into KZbin search and watch/listen with an open mind. with love, former atheist who grew up Catholic that now believes in the historical and spiritual accuracy of the Bible.

[@yumyum723]

@@peaceislam1204 it certainly isn't doing Islam any favours since tye Quran I'd riddled with scientific fallacies

[@oliviajames8630]

I am currently reading "1001 Atheist & Agnostic Quotes and Proverbs to Live By" Lawrence M. Krauss. And is AMAZING !!! BLEW MY MIND !!!

[@Lakoda26]

"How to fail effectively" Has me up out of my chair. So darn important.

[@clemsonalum98]

What’s fail? I always get a ribbon.

[@bitcoinbelle]

I am almost at "must" wear reading glasses so read "fall" and thought "That's one way."

[@hollismallory2757]

Hell yeah

[@HolographicSweater]

I think learning a martial art, or surfboarding is a good way to build this skill!

[@joev.8543]

More than half of proficiency in many activities, such as skateboarding for example, are about learning how to fall skillfully.

[@Gennys]

What a DELIGHTFUL conversation Jordan and Lawrence had. I can't wait for more conversations on this level from both.

[@nicholaseaves2591]

I love how many times i hear Peterson elaborate on one of Krauss's thoughts and you see this look of amazement, surprise and joy wash across his face as he agrees with what Peterson says

[@incognitomcde1360]

I think it is beyond expectation for someone like him to not only have the interviewer comprehend what you are saying but then follow up with relevant, interesting questions (outside of his colleagues, mean). It’s probably a breath of fresh air to take the training wheels off in conversation and to have the other person not get that glazed look in their eyes.

[@christopher227n]

@@incognitomcde1360 100% I get similar satisfaction, although I’m listening and not engaging in the conversation.

[@em1483]

I need to watch this about 5x; sooo much incredible discussion/info here. Impossible to absorb in one listen! Love the energy here; one of my favorite JP podcasts so far!

[@SolvingTheMoneyProblem]

Great conversation. Looking forward to part two on Krauss’s podcast.

[@AFriedChicken]

Krauss is a pea dough file and took Epstein's money and defended him.

[@Eric.Morrison]

If you're new, welcome. If you're not, welcome back.

[@meanwhileinsooke]

He almost died of drug addiction and covid what a fucking hypocrite

[@extraspecialk3244]

@@meanwhileinsooke He took a medication that his doctor prescribed him, then kicked it when he realized how bad it was. He never claimed COVID wasn't a serious illness. What hypocrisy are you referring too?

[@danteinferno175]

Totally underestimated podcast. Absolutely fascinating. And in previous podcasts sometimes I would feel like Peterson was "interrupting" his guest but in this podcast his questions were startlingly insightful and his enthusiasm only potentiated the responses of his guest. Anyone reading the comments here, watch the whole podcast! Fascinating!

[@graemejack9040]

Fascinating conversation. I love watching Lawrence talk because he's always so energetic and enthusiastic. It was awesome to see Jordan matching that enthusiasm throughout the discussion.

[@mcrobsaccount]

hes antisocial and is disinterested by any ideas other than his own, never expanded on any points peterson made. Typical scientist bore imo.

[@ianwinslett5013]

He talks about so many things and says nothing.

[@geoffreyferguson1643]

Yeah I find it attractive to my brain to listen to people who are passionate about what they are aware of.

[@ianwinslett5013]

@Sam Mathews The problem is that science has turned into a religion of its own.

[@mcrobsaccount]

@Sam Mathews can you explain to me the science that says there's more than two genders. Because that's the claim science is making today, is that a hypotheseis you're willing to subscribe to? Science has become scientism

[@charlesrump5771]

Whenever Krauss says "literally nothing", he means something.

[@CRHE]

Yeah, he’s been corrected by philosophers on this time and again, but he’s too full of himself to listen.

[@HolyKhaaaaan]

It means something that empirically is nothing. But just because it cannot be measured does not mean it does not exist.

[@glynsmith60]

To any JP fans...Im looking for an accomplished singer/acoustic guitar player with a folk/soft rock style to cover a fully completed song dedicated to Jordans 12 Rules books and philosophies.If you are interested and think you might be able to help let me know, and we can arrange contact! Thanks,

[@bryanfoster2651]

@@CRHE LOL This is not a question that philosophers can help with

[@GeroG3N]

@@bryanfoster2651 Yes, it is. It's literally semantics.

[@rictormantas]

I hope that these two brilliant minds come together more. This is one of the best learning experiences I’ve ever had

[@jupitermoongauge4055]

Krause is certainly intelligent. Peterson is just a fascist con artist

[@rossalthor]

Lawrence Krauss is an absolute legend. I remember this man as a frequent expert commentator on Discovery and History channel shows promoting science long before youtube even existed.

[@lightworker4512]

@Elder D Castañeda perhaps he is a flawed human being but I respect his knowledge in physics. People that point out flaws in others have their own deep seated flaws. We are all here to learn and evolve. None of us are perfect.

[@lightworker4512]

@Elder D Castañeda If Lawrence teaches Ethics, I will not listen. For physics, I enjoy learning from him.

[@lightworker4512]

@@MeMe-qc6ow how did universe begin then?

[@wheelInmotion430]

@@MeMe-qc6ow actually guys like Krauss are trying to get away from the Big Bang because it actually helps prove the existence of God creating a beginning point, that ha since expanded. They like the multiverse idea or throwing around terms like “dark matter” or infinite emptiness.

[@wubdubb3374]

too sad, they've wasted their lives on nonsense lol. they cant comprehend reality.

[@robertlee918]

I've felt so profoundly lonely all my life until now. Thank you Dr. Jordan Peterson and Lawrence Krauss!

[@microapple97]

You know what I want? A better way to connect with people who are watching the same KZbin videos, because I've struggled with profound loneliness too.

[@theohuioiesin6519]

Just take the risk and exchange email addresses. I won’t spam you.

[@fisch5220]

These conversations are more packed with information than just about every school class I’ve ever participated in. Geez what a time to be alive!

[@jamesgreig5168]

I was just thinking that. This 2 hours had more information than 1 year of my university course.

[@brendabarbosa5923]

I had never heard of Dr Krauss before and after hearing this discussion, I’m obsessed! I want to read all his books and listen to his ideas. He’s so easy to understand and follow, despite the ideas and discoveries being so complex. Plus, he just seems like a nice guy. He and Jordan together are such a good combination for interesting and provocative discussion. Thank you for doing this and enriching my understanding of the Universe. I could listen to them talk for 2 weeks straight!! 😝

[@oghaki5097]

Look a little further into this guy, he is pretty awful, surprised Jordan had him on.

[@ScottyHugefellow]

Glad you like listening to him theres heaps of content out there. He converses well with Dawkins, I recommend their talk on titled something from nothing and his talks on the Issac Asimov memorial debates

[@jamesgreig5168]

Great physicist, but his attempt on Global warming was less than startling.

[@swordarmstudios6052]

Jordan asks good thoughtful questions. He's a good interviewer for scientists.

[@pretol1]

It's a nice thing to do when you have a "bring your child to work day", but it's not something scientists enjoy on a regular basis.

[@electricpigs]

agreed

[@Arjun-eb1yc]

He seems to know enough physics to ask good questions and make it interesting.

[@parmachine470]

Obviously, you are not in a position to define what a good question is.

[@A_M_Bobb]

No he isn't. He tries desperately to support his original narrative-driven beliefs.

[@harrypalmer3481]

The older I get the less surprised about people I become, with increasing sadness. I'm so pleased at being surprised by how well this discussion went, thank you Gentlemen!

[@chewie8910]

This is awesome. When I was 14 or so, more of a church boy, I watched a couple of debates with Kraus and fundamentalists, and I disliked him because of my indoctrination I felt attacked and I was close-minded. Since then I haven't seen anything of him. I saw him in the thumbnail and remembered him so I was curious. I love this guy's mind and attitude, I have a lot of admiration. And I'm feeling pretty good about myself because this means I've grown into a more open minded person myself.

[@phineasrathbone6230]

If only he didn't visit Jeffery Epstein's island I might still have some respect for him

[@chewie8910]

@Melissa Oestreich I'm more of an agnostic. I believe there is a god, but I know I can't prove it rationally, and I understand that I don't know the meaning of life, and I embrace the mystery of life. (even though I believe there is a meaning that I discover little by little every day if I'm on the right path)

[@chrisc7265]

I was raised secular and find atheist mode Kraus to be missing the point entirely. I dismissed him based on some other recent convos, though I agree this one is pretty good.

[@apracity7672]

You dont have to prove it rationally, its already been done through many logically deductive arguments with sound premises. For instance the argument from contingency, the cosmological argument, etc

[@zzzap5425]

@@apracity7672 isn't that a method of rationalisation? Mind my lack of understanding in your statement. Just a question. Are you saying that due to his presumably right deductive arguments there is no need for rationalisation becuase its already done by the arguments? Again, i have not fully grasped these concerpts.🤔

[@jamesharris184]

How am I supposed to watch from the beginning to now in one sitting... Every time I start the rewatch it ocurrs to me "now" isn't what it was yesterday, and this realization is compounded by difficultiea I am having with my time machine but time waites for no one and I won't wait for me, or so admonished Mick Jagger Once Upon a Time. Thanks for bringing this wonderful guest into my event horizon. I am looking forward to his books!!

[@connorhaskins4332]

1:52:30 gave me chills. It felt as though the ‘selves’ of each individual began fully trusting one another. It’s obvious that JBP is held up on his conversation with Harris, and I love him for it, because I ask people what they think about that discussion all the time. That 4 part conversation reveals a lot of potential to discover more synergy between science and religion. 1:53: 10 “Everything is subject to question. Nothing is sacred” -Krauss I would argue he might just hold that one idea scared, above all others, knowing that it’s the only chance at further discovery. Glad to hear JBP back on a roll. I have missed his thoughts and questions. Upward and Onward, Gentlemen. Thank you for the conversation. Made cleaning this damn carpet much more ‘meaningful’

[@Soulslayer612]

Very insightful. I'll have to go back and re-listen to the Peterson-Harris "debate".

[@danielosetromera2090]

If "everything is subject to question" then that very statement should be also subject to question. It's a self refuting claim.This kind of statements never fly and show flawed thinking. And yes, "everything is subject to question" is itself a dogma. You can't escape dogma. You just can't.

[@connorhaskins4332]

@daniel oset I would agree! That’s what I appreciate about the sentiment. It is a dedication to embracing ignorance, and, in my opinion, emphasizes the importance of referencing someone else’s experience in order to more fully understand your shared reality. Krauss would probably laugh and say exactly. He often does on his multi phased discussion with WLC. He’s more than happy to defend the idea that all current conceptions are in fact, false. I also don’t see any other way to ensure the pursuit of improvement, or more comprehensive understanding. People use to think smoking was good for you, and the wealthiest were traditionally the most overweight… ideas tend to change, the idea that everything should be questioned, doesn’t though. It might be dogmatic, in so far as it is an assumed, collectively sound, pursuit of progress.. please correct me if I mis understand, you seem to use dogma as a pejorative term, or that dogma has no potential for solvency amongst this sentiment. I’d say the statement that you cannot escape dogma, is then, in fact, to be brought into question. The fact that these ideas can go round and round is probably a good indication that there is more understanding to be had. Hell, we’re probably both wrong One things for sure, this discussion will be entirely different, before too long

[@connorhaskins4332]

@@Soulslayer612 thank you, Sir. Please do! I’m not here to advocate that one side or the other is more accurate, I believe that following closely does potentiate ‘siding’ with one or the other. I believe people will hear these conversations differently, depending on their own personal desires. As someone who has spent time researching, I can confidently tell you that people can make data to fit whatever they need for funding. Sad, but true ! The nature of the profit monsters.

[@connorhaskins4332]

@@danielosetromera2090 what do you mean they ‘don’t fly’ .. in what context are the deemed unacceptable, and why does a brainstorming session always have to fit the bill of the SQUO ? Seems a little overly conservative, considering the nature of this discussion. The ideas expressed are openly skeptical of their own suppositions, so I’m not sure how can you listen to this, and make such a resolute value judgement on the merit of a single expression. Qualifications? Data?

[@meinking22]

My initial thought during the discussion was that Dr. Peterson was trying to identify the precise cosmological moment at which chaos is first injected into the universe, but then the 1:25:00 point kicked in and we're talking about the religious impulse, scientific method, meaning, physics and a potential proto-framework for the Woke psychology. Fantastic stuff from both participants! Thank You

[@midnightwatchman1]

your comment saves me from switching off. it is the same thing he speaks about all the time at all this conferences does not say anything particularly interesting and giving opinion on topics that was not asked

[@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns]

No serious engagement with any of the best philosophers of religion.

[@PrivateSi]

I thought Peterson was mostly assessing Crazy Krauss's lefty liberal delusional, lofty, mindset and attitudes.. False humility that disrespects humanity mixed with conceited arrogance for himself and Science. Krauss is a proper nutter.

[@midnightwatchman1]

@@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns Krauss clueless and even worse he boasts about his ignorance. basically, if he does not know anything about it is not worth knowning. Philosophy and religion are useless in his worldview because he cannot test it. then comes up with his own framework which is equally untestable for finding purpose out of purposelessness

[@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns]

@@midnightwatchman1 I agree, although I’d qualify your use of “test” by adding the word “scientifically.” I think to an extent one can “test” the claims of natural theology with reason a la Josh Rasmussen, Ed Feser, David Bentley Hart, Rob Koons, etc

[@nelsonang]

wow... when there’s humility, there’s beauty! extraordinary men... thank you!

[@jamesgreig5168]

Always a pleasure to watch Jordan Peterson interviews. I must say, Lawrence is far more comfortable in this topic then his lecture on climate. One field he is an expert, the other, climatology, he tried to be an expert.

[@TheZagiello]

After they finished podcast they started playing Warzone.

[@plimithsock]

Lol yelling I’m in the gulag

[@grunt6799]

HE'S ONE SHOOOOOOOT!

[@ChezzyKnytt]

@@plimithsock The image of JP fighting his way out of the gulag cracks me up lmao

[@christianebers]

Physicists don’t go to gulag. Only Jordan go to gulag.

[@marcos-gn8sq]

and that's that.

[@dnelson5638]

Now we need an interview with Stephen Meyer to get the metaphysical view on cosmology and his book Return of the God Hypthesis

[@camrobinson118]

As an atheist I have been troubled by Krauss' sometimes shrill rhetoric and out of hand dismissal of the value of religion, and equally, I have been perplexed by Peterson's confidence in the merit of religion's 'metaphorical substrate.' Their discussion, particularly at the end of the podcast, went a long way towards assuaging my concerns regarding their respective positions; particularly their dialectic has for me, put a more humane face on Lawrence Krauss' world view and given me a greater insight as to Jordan Peterson's somewhat vague endorsement of religion. For me, this conversation has elevated both their individual views of science and religion, and my esteem for their intellectual honesty.

[@missnellaful]

Very astute observervation. You pointed out a fascinating part that many may not pick up, thank you!

[@Jason-ln7ot]

Enjoyable conversation. I appreciate you Mr. Peterson . The world needed you. Its fact to me that God and what he is is the beginning of the universe. Scientifically it is the only way possible. Your guest is corret in some part but not about God and the Beginning.

[@chubzero7342]

JP is back baby! So good to see him recovering!!

[@titusabrasaxsux]

What happened to him?

[@Alex-hu5eg]

Schopenhauer's Law of Entropy: If you put a spoonful of wine in a barrel full of sewage, you get sewage. If you put a spoonful of sewage in a barrel full of wine, you get sewage.

[@firestorm8260]

So glad the latter results in sewage and not wine.

[@earthjin2000]

I think we all know someone that will drink the wine with a spoonful of sewage in it and get so drunk they will hit you over the head with barrel of sewage with a spoonful of wine in it.

[@whitealaskan]

Not sure about that. The FDA allows some strange stuff in our food.

[@roddydykes7053]

@@whitealaskan hair and sawdust are okay

[@tylerhill9510]

Is this quote in the world as will as representation or? You should also look into the ideas of shrodinger and plank?

[@sangeetsiv]

I'll say this for Dr. Jordan Peterson, whatever his personal motivations, the man is great at a debate. It's just interesting stuff and if you're worried about political bias you shouldn't allow that to censor yourself from watching people who don't align with your beliefs. Diverse perspectives really do matter. Lawrence is his usual great self in this, glad to see he's enjoying it.

[@r0ky_M]

You need to watch JP debate Harris and Dillahunty..he makes a right fool of himself.

[@ashok.vardhan.g]

@@r0ky_M I have watched his interaction with Harris at Pangburn, and in my observation I did not see him making a fool of himself, at any point. In fact the discussion stretched into 4 different occasions. About the Dillahunty one, I cannot comment on, as I have not yet watched it, so I am curious, at which point exactly did you observe him making a fool of himself?

[@ashok.vardhan.g]

@Budda Brotha I agree, hence my careful use of language, and the specific words "interaction" and "discussion" to illustrate their conversation.

[@galaxytraveler5779]

I watched many debates with Lawrence and religious scholars. Lawrence is fantastic in debates.

[@sysprogmanadhoc2785]

Peterson is my fav pseudo-intellectual

[@theheck5176]

I have watched Lawrence Krauss in several documentaries about space but this one with Jordan Peterson is blowing my mind.

[@greasybean08]

Two of my favorite fields coming together to make life make more sense. Thank you Jordan for all you do for people all around the world. You truly are an inspiration!

[@ryanballantyne1811]

What would you like to talk about? Peterson: “Yes.” Krauss: “Alright, I’m game.”

[@johnpepin5373]

I thought it interesting that Krause said the ground state of the electron is not zero because the universe is not infinite... suggesting a finite universe. I also found it interesting when he said someday other galaxies will be out of sight, because the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light... but I thought nothing could go faster than the speed of light. Which is universal in all frames of reference.

[@essaytv9527]

@@johnpepin5373 I'm no physicist, but i think the explanation to that was SPACE ITSELF is expanding, and so is not bound by the speed of light.

[@johnpepin5373]

@@essaytv9527 Maybe.

[@jomcduff675]

Dear Dr. P., Each time I find a new upload here, my mood lifts a great deal. So gratifying to listen, learn--and engage again. Thank you!

[@renupathak4442]

Love Lawrence Krauss' s enthusiasm, articulation, abundant knowledge, and, though himself, a brilliant man how simply he explains the complex. Thank you Dr Jordan for your pertinent questions. I marvel at your interest

[@josephmoya9929]

The excitement in Krauss's face. I really enjoyed this!

[@LuigiAguilarC]

Amazing to see 2 brilliant human minds having a discussion in the most human and humble way.

[@jamesgreig5168]

We are very lucky to experience two such intellects on this accessible forum.

[@dginev]

I missed listening to Lawrence Krauss more than I expected! It was absolutely rejuvenating to listen in to this 2 hour conversation. Each speaker posed something for the other to contend with, while agreeing quickly and clearly on a anything that got near to an empirical "common sense". Just a beautiful discussion with lots of educational nuggets and open questions for the listeners to enter into. Thank you!!

[@Remnants100]

I am in agreement with many of the comments here. This is without doubt one of the most interesting discussions ever posted on KZbin. Two great minds who are both able to articulate their particular views whilst keeping it respectful.

[@gamEnjoyLP]

Physic’s and psychology, two of the most fascinating topics! Really gives you a sense of the complexity and beauty of life.

[@philipslimko4627]

Physics definitely

[@Saral_Lekhi]

If u combine the words it makes Psychic 😋

[@robertokeefe5944]

Reason is the slave of passion.

[@argyriosvlastos321]

Listened to this again, and gained so much more the second time around. A study of physics and a basic understanding of these concepts should be central to all of us, even those not technically trained!

[@daviddeida]

Why?

[@johnirvine9942]

@@daviddeida It allows you to perceive things in a manner that is not entirely subjective. Once understanding these concepts you can conceive the world in such a way that is far greater than your individual existence.

[@lowellneese549]

Big bang is not real

[@johnirvine9942]

@@lowellneese549 How do you know?

[@sherryjohnson3804]

I have to admit this one Was a little too much to grasp

[@Killsringman]

Huge fan of both gentlemen on this episode, Jordan's proclivity to mass produce so many intriguing podcast talks one after another amazes me, and I chuckled with joy and interest of Lawrence's huge (and swift!)enthusiasm of explaining the laws of physics in here, which is of course remarkable. Thank you both so much for having enriched my life as well as many others!

[@BlockchainGhost]

Ditto! Aside the remarkable content & energy of the podast, it's truly enjoyable to witness how these two great minds enjoy talking to each other.

[@jasonmckay8793]

blow some more smoke up asses mate lol

[@ArtistVisuals]

@@jasonmckay8793 England lost and thats ok

[@amygolds2435]

I love listening to highly intelligent people speak. Their back and forth makes me feel so dumb and yet here I am learning every time I listen to JP ❤️

[@edmundas04]

The only problem with this podcast is that it’s too short

[@fatality9072]

We are so spoiled. We get to peek into an intellectual conversation with 2 legends for 2 hours and we still feel unquenched !

[@jamescollier3]

lol. omg this was 2 brilliant PhD's at a high level in two complex subjects at once lol

[@byjakeburgess]

never thought i'd see this crossover but i'm so glad it exists!

[@szotakandrei]

Imagine Jordan and Neil Degrasse Tyson

[@byjakeburgess]

@@szotakandrei in a perfect world

[@sandwich675]

@@szotakandrei nah

[@Eric.Morrison]

Krauss is bauss

[@stevepickford3004]

Shame Krauss couldn't listen for 2 seconds and actually have a conversation. It's sad that every public scientist seems to lack basic social skills.

[@alexisidro]

Yes! Two magnificent leaders of two amazing fields collide; one explaining why and how behind human behavior (psychology), and the other one explaining why and how behind nature (physics). Why I love both! 🔥

[@dasherfrommenasher]

WOW! Fascinating and exciting exchange between JP and LK. I am staggered with appreciation by the ability of each to draw out the very best from the other! I agree with every comment shared over the past 7 months, since this discussion was posted. I shall now listen to part 2 and follow-up with joyful reading from Genesis, Psalms and Romans!

[@abbasmoosvi9508]

This conversation took me back to Max Weber's lecture, entitled 'Science as a Vocation' - if you haven't read it, do yourself the biggest favor and check it out. It is mind blowing, in the truest sense of the phrase.

[@psalm1197]

Thank you!

[@chrisd997]

I like dr Peterson trying to understand and most importantly how hungry he is to learn more about quantum physics. respect Sir ✊

[@multiquantumwell]

In fact he fears the truth that there's no god. He Is worried for loosing his metaphoric substrate of his ethos ☝️😂

[@avatar2833]

@@multiquantumwell I love Dr. Peterson, but he did not dare make those wishy-washy religious sophistry he usually employs in his pseudoscientific apologetics for Christianity. When it comes to psychology, and psychiatry, he is a truly gifted doctor and writer (also his cultural and ideological critique of modern culture).

[@treyjenkins5672]

Haven’t heard from Lawrence Krause since the Richard Dawkins era. Should be a good one.

[@nima_mirzaei]

Exactly

[@stormhawk31]

After William Lane Craig destroyed him in a debate, he kind of went away quietly.

[@jwscheuerman]

@@stormhawk31 WLC is a formidable debater, in that he makes very effective use of rhetorical devices which can be hard to spot on the fly. However, his arguments are weak.

[@treyjenkins5672]

@@stormhawk31 William Lane Craig lost that debate😂😂

[@stormhawk31]

@@gregoriosamsa2722 He has a right to have opinions on those topics, but he'd do well to actually think them through before opening his mouth about them.

[@thetodhunter2124]

This was a particularly memorable one. Really enjoyed it from beginning to end. Such high quality conversation. I think it is key that both participants take the time to define context to words or phrases which both Jordan and Lawrence did regularly. I get the feeling they both enjoyed this one too

[@paulusclovis4363]

Pp p

[@m.deadly5952]

What I love about Jordan is that he is able to be both the opponent and the moderator at the same time . like at the end when Krauss made few points that Jordan clearly wanted to address yet the moderator within him was able to contain him to end this at a beautiful note .

[@marktullis6484]

I have a couple of degrees, a little understanding of science and physics, but seriously, I know nothing. This may be the most interesting discussion I have ever had the privilege to listen in to...

[@parmachine470]

were your degrees in nonsense and bull shit?

[@hughjanus7176]

@@parmachine470 The internet surely isn't a kind place :P

[@joshtaylor8617]

Par Machine KZbin scholar right here

[@lucamatteobarbieri2493]

@@hughjanus7176 Don't feed the trolls, just ignore them ;)

[@alanjohnson9336]

Saying you know nothing is a sign of your intelligence

[@PurpleChevron]

Huge fan of both of these gentlemen. I found the discussion enormously productive and cordial.

[@tartanbessy436]

Thank you both 💛 this is helping me understand my anxiety. Being Autistic with ADHD and not being diagnosed with either until my late 30s and into my 40s, life has been in equal measure amazing and awful. My brain doesn't have filters so my brain never shuts up and does not filter out unnecessary thoughts.

[@craigfowler7098]

Try meditation

[@tartanbessy436]

@@craigfowler7098 have done since i was a teen ☺

[@craigfowler7098]

@@tartanbessy436 Great to hear that. I would recommend the Linden method

[@babsharris6724]

Homeopathics have a pill to stop thar & shut your mind up its Coffee Cruda & I've used it for years. It takes about 3 days .

[@257799nico]

As a former Krauss fan, and a current Peterson fan, this is an excellent treat.

[@Craznar]

As a former Peterson fan, and a current Krauss fan, it is also an excellent treat.

[@HelpMeFindTheseSongs]

"Former" Krauss fan? What do you mean?

[@510tuber]

lol why aren't you a krauss fan anymore? Did the religious people get to you?

[@bigmac8574]

Lawrence Krauss is a badass! Major fan!

[@ruyan247]

@@510tuber Krauss went on an ultra woke TDS spree and then got me-too'd. I devoured his books back in the day, but when Trump came along he became unbearable just like Harris for instance. I admire Krauss and Harris but they went a little too far.

[@CanWeGetDeep]

I’ve wished for this exact podcast for a few years now. THANK YOU

[@CanWeGetDeep]

@Phil Stevens thank you Phil Stevens

[@charlierose5569]

Hello, everyone. I just want to say that I have been here since 86,000 followers. Can’t wait until we hit 4 million. We love you, Jordan!

[@joshuaswick]

The difference between someone that appreciates first principles and someone who doesn't. I applaud Lawrence Krauss on his patience here.

[@guitar0wnz]

It is just absolutely insane how every guest is a home run

[@WrinkledPlatypus]

I'm glad Dr Peterson pushed him on motivations of scientists today. I see too many that are clearly motivated by political beliefs, like the fact that he was a part of the doomsday clock. That's not a scientific tool, that's a political tool used to produce an emotional response.

[@alaricgoldkuhl155]

I think it's deeper than political. I think it's a translation of scientific consensus into a language that we can intuitively understand. I think we need way more of it.

[@WrinkledPlatypus]

@@alaricgoldkuhl155 again, there could be "consensus" politically but the concept of the doomsday clock is completely subjective and reminds me of another "consensus" that we should never question, which, as a matter of fact, he might have been showing off his religious beliefs on that subject too based on one of the obviously placed books in his background.

[@64kdawg]

My god, this channel is bringing the brightest minds in the planet together.👍🔥🇨🇦🇺🇸 Dr.Peterson is assembling the intellectual AVENGERS🔥

[@Cliff4242]

I am a fan of Dr.Krauss thank you for hosting him.

[@briantrombley3115]

Did you know he went to Epstein Island WAY more than once?

[@chriscain5116]

Jordan your words of wisdom have helped me a lot. Wish you were my dad seriously.

[@ruizhang2452]

Love that quick little sympathetic smile on Peterson's face when Dr Krauss said his point couldn't get across in OxfordUnion debate because "they are all woke". 😁

[@fs5775]

more like a wry smile, it was fun.. ;)

[@FFLFFS]

Lol ...the festering sewer pit of mind controlling. (Apparently lightning is the cure.)

[@slorang414]

timestamp?

[@ruizhang2452]

Sam Lorang 1:30:30

[@michaelparsons3007]

People like Krauss are the ones that made the way for the woke with all their meaningless BS. Krauss is such an idiot he doesn’t realize that without meaning you can’t compete evolutionarily. He’s one of the stupidest smart people I’ve ever heard.

[@nik4546]

Two of my favorite public intellectuals having a conversation - just when I thought Mondays couldn't get any worse, I got a pleasant surprise :) Greetings to both of you from Croatia!

[@kubrickenigma7977]

It's conversations like this that KZbin more of a global blessing than otherwise.

[@noenken]

This was great, can't wait for the second meeting of these two.

[@gregorywilkinson5731]

This got real good towards the end hopefully there's a follow up soon

[@john99776]

Totally disagree. It was good during the better part of the podcast, and then, just like religious people always do, Jordan started trying to make weak arguments to finish with, hoping to salvage some of his beliefs in the vain hope of overpowering Krauss and have listeners go away distracted by his religious nonsense.. I see this happen again and again, especially with Jordan. He always exhibits his weakness of religious belief, trying to make it look scientific. Which it is not....it's simply mental weakness. He squirms around and tries every feint and trick to make this foolishness sound convincing. He does it in every discussion.....and it doesn't fly. I don't respect the fact that he doesn't give it up and become convinced by reason, but just keeps it up nonetheless.

[@Sawedoff53]

I agree

[@Sawedoff53]

@@john99776 you don't know

[@gregorywilkinson5731]

@@john99776 how do you know?

[@CrimsonFlameRTR]

@@john99776 "He always exhibits his weakness of religious belief, trying to make it look scientific." It's like you don't even listen. He actually does the opposite. He makes it look un-scientific, because it is.

[@areyoureal4707]

"It is so remarkable that it sounds cliche, it's like a discussion of love." 😊

[@holysquire8989]

What unites these two is their passion and joy for ideas and this joy suffuses the listener.

[@SirEebRhawl]

I’m really impressed by this conversation. I didn’t think those two would be a good pair.

[@josemaldonarico]

Curious people usually are

[@paulfrederick1568]

When Peterson wants to learn something, he shuts up and listens.

[@PoetlaureateNFDL]

I agree. Was thinking the same thing!

[@JackT13]

At the risk of sounding like a dick, I think you’re missing the word ‘think’ in this comment.

[@chris5559]

Just an amazing thing when super smart people get together.

[@feralhamster2429]

Would love to see Jordan talk to David Lynch if possible.

[@vege4920]

You cant talk to David Lynch. He just will just stare into distance and go on a werid monologue.

[@mattturner5429]

@J M Why do you say Lynch is a postmodernist? Has he labeled himself as such?

[@SimonHuggins]

I'd like him to speak to Father Christmas. But I'm not sure how relevant he would be to the kind of things Jordan would typically talk about. Except maybe the mythology element. Who knows, maybe Santa is a Jungian at heart.

[@feralhamster2429]

@J M that could be true, but I’m interested in the things they might agree on, especially with respect to creativity and art.

[@billdenbrough501]

Peterson is at his worst when trying to explain art. Watch his video exploring 'Mulholland Drive' which I notice has now blocked comments. It would certainly be a funny conversation.

[@treyjenkins5672]

“I’m tempted to take it in that direction, but I think I’m going to continue to torture you about the structure of the universe.” Couldn’t have said it better myself JP.

[@brockmann4815]

Well it seems like the temptation got to strong during the end ^^

[@Choscura]

I sort of like seeing the last honest priest of the Roman Empire bouncing around everybody else's temples and learning how everybody has the same 'gods'

[@jjroseknows777]

Maybe one of you can tell me what WAS the direction that he was tempted to take it into? Maybe you can tell me what minute... I'd like to check out that point in time.

[@brockmann4815]

@@jjroseknows777 If I remember right, it was the realm of meaning and psychology, but he explicitly wanted to talk about science.

[@dialektischerjokus7648]

To see Krauss on here is... a really good sign.

[@Jonagold92]

The fact that we view "being in the center of things" or "being a part of the most" as something of value - tells more about our perspective, how we think as social animals, than of our actual significance in our universe.

[@510tuber]

Too bad you weren't on this podcast.

[@markm2092]

Don’t forget about quantum physics and it’s implications about observation. What does that tell us about our significance...Not trying to counter you, just something to think about.

[@johnnyb7271]

Fair point. But I feel like if you truly experience those things, being at the centre of the universe say, through transcendent or psychedelic states, (which i have had a handful of personally) an awe factor comes into it and that awe spreads out into a deep sense of meaning and purpose, and interconnectedness to all things and the universe at large. So you experience it AS IF its more than mere social interactions and our perspective and thats all that really matters tbh, the truthfulness (or lack there of) is irrelevant because you experience it as the most truthful thing you've ever realised, and discovered to be true. That's just my view though brotha wtf do I know✌

[@Jonagold92]

@@markm2092 Significancy is a made up human term, as a concept it is meant to highlight things that are more relevant for selected goals. It is a relative term, first we should select what is the goal/aim and then we need something to compare with, to be able to determine the significancy in a group of things. Significant in what context? Significant in our perspective? Perspective shaped by human needs and values. Do we value simplicity or complexity, why do we value what we value? Built in fascination for challenges or social construct, both?

[@Jonagold92]

We are continuously being fooled by our defaults to think/chase something that doesn't matter or isn't relevant. Values must come from somewhere, to have something to live for. Thats why we have feelings which shows us the ways which have worked for our ancestors. Not being too much in conflict with our instincts will give us peace in our minds. Everything is subject to changes, instincts too, better lead them towards sustainable preferences. As long as our aim is to survive as humans. Survival instinct, feels purposeful.

[@jonafaria]

“You could say, ‘What good is a Beethoven symphony across the span of a trillion years?’ Well, none, but what good is posing that question?” -JBP

[@sohibmohamed9548]

@Pinned by Jordan B Peterson really?? who's gonna fall for this?

[@ekrem_dincel]

@@MarmaladeSally I don't think whether something is profound or not is absolute so I don't get your point.

[@jackfiercetree5205]

@@MarmaladeSally while things he says may not be quite as profound as he implies, that does not automatically lead to, he's an idiot. Also, the profundity of most prose will be found inside the reader... which may sound pretentious, and I guarantee you Krauss can derive much more profound implication from E^2=m^2 × c^4 than you could ever imagine...

[@waltermh111]

@@sohibmohamed9548 The point is valid though and JBP has discussed things like this before, that there are things science simply cant answer. That are outside of its purpose and ability. So if you think science must be able to prove everything or it isnt worthy of consideration, then he has a point. Its like if science cant recreate or understand love perfectly, does that mean it isnt real or meaningful? You just disagree with the point, but it doesnt make him an idiot anymore than it makes you an idiot.

[@emajinitllc3831]

or what good is this comment on a video of debate on this topic..merely nothing. who knows, there isn't an answer only subjective opinion

[@SvenRognelund]

This was the most interesting discussion I've heard in a long time. Those two hours passed in 20 minutes. Thanks!

[@paulusclovis4363]

Pl

[@luisfabricio6439]

You should watch the one he just posted with Sir Roger Penrose

[@InvincibleExtremes]

As a welder. I listen to this man all day and grow tremendously as a result. Least I feel like I do.

[@gogawriter9718]

The biggest respect to Peterson from Russia

[@malpais776]

Also from Texas

[@B-Nice]

This was amazing!! Looking forward to hearing them together on the Origins Podcast!!

[@rafaelfreitas6159]

I'm just letting my appreciation on how deep a thinker JP is.

[@Lost_In_LA]

I'm blown away that Jordan is keeping up with a physicist on topics such as thermodynamics and creation of the universe.

[@revolutionboysgymnastics7794]

A great discussion all around. 1:34:15 - 1:34:25 Dr. Krause assumes that what he truly wants and what is good are different. The bible contends that they are the same. This is why he missteps/fumbles words at 1:34:04, when he says the "motivation changes" he knows he doesn't believe his own words. To be fair he doesn't know what he believes so an inconstant thought was all he could articulate. Respectfully, the motivation dose not change Dr. Krause. I thoroughly enjoined your talk. Also hats off to you Dr. Krause for setting Jordan straight on the time thing. :)

[@frankmuysers6001]

When the galaxies of psychology, physics and psychedelics merge, we'll hit a whole new level of understanding and finally grasp the origin of the religious impulse. This conversation speared straight in that direction and I enjoyed the ride.

[@pretol1]

"galaxies of psychology" is all you need to know about the Jordan Peterson audience.

[@cindyd2956]

@@pretol1 I spit out my tea when I read that 😂

[@TheWorldTeacher]

02. A BRIEF SYNOPSIS OF “LIFE”: Everything, both perceptible and imperceptible - that is, any gross or subtle OBJECT within the material universe which can ever be perceived with the cognitive faculties, plus the SUBJECT (the observer of all phenomena) - is to what most persons generally refer when they use the term “God”, since they usually conceive of the Primeval Creator as being the Perfect Person, and “God” (capitalized) is a personal epithet of the Unconditioned Absolute. However, this anthropomorphized conception of The Absolute is a fictional character of divers mythologies. According to most every enlightened sage in the history of this planet, Ultimate Reality is, far more logically, Impersonal Absolute NOTHINGNESS (otherwise called “The Tao”, “The Great Spirit”, “Brahman”, “Pure Consciousness”, “Eternal Awareness”, “Independent Existence”, “The Ground of All Being”, “Uncaused Nature”, “The Undifferentiated Substratum of Reality”, “The Unified Field”, et cetera). In other words, rather than the Supreme Truth being a separate Blissful, Supra-Conscious Being (The Godhead Himself or The Goddess), Ultimate Reality is Eternal-Existence Limitless-Awareness Unconditional-Peace ITSELF. Because the Unmanifested Absolute is infinite creative potentiality, “it” actualizes as EVERYTHING, in the form of temporary, cyclical universes. In the case of our particular universe, we reside in a cosmos consisting of space-time, matter and energy, without, of course, neglecting the most fundamental dimension of existence (i.e. conscious awareness - although, “it” is, being the subject, by literal definition, non-existent). Just as a knife cannot cut itself, nor the mind comprehend itself, nor the eyes see themselves, The Absolute cannot know Itself (or at least objectively EXPERIENCE Itself), and so, has manifested this phenomenal universe within Itself for the purpose of experiencing Itself, particularly through the lives of self-aware beings, such as we sophisticated humans. Therefore, this world of duality is really just a play of consciousness within Consciousness, in the same way that a dream is a person's sleeping narrative set within the life-story of an 'awakened' individual. APPARENTLY, this phenomenal universe was created with the primal act (the so-called “Big Bang”), which started, supposedly, as a minute, slightly uneven ball of light, which in turn, was instigated, ultimately, by Extra-Temporal Supra-Consciousness. From that first deed, every motion or action that has ever occurred has been a direct (though, almost exclusively, an indirect) result of it. Just as all the extant energy in the universe was once contained within the inchoate singularity, Infinite Consciousness was NECESSARILY present at the beginning of the universe, and is in no way an epiphenomenon of a neural network. Discrete consciousness, on the other hand, is entirely dependent on the neurological faculty of individual animals (the more highly-evolved the species, the greater its cognitive abilities). “Sarvam khalvidam brahma” (a Sanskrit maxim from the “Chandogya Upanishad”, meaning ‘all this is indeed Brahman’ or ‘everything is the Universal Self alone’). There is NAUGHT but Eternal Being, Conscious Awareness, Causeless Peace - and you are, quintessentially, that! This “Theory of Everything” can be more succinctly expressed by the mathematical equation: E=A͚ (Everything equates to Infinite Awareness). HUMANS are essentially this Eternally-Aware-Peace, acting through an extraordinarily-complex biological organism, comprised of the eight rudimentary elements - pseudo-ego (the assumed sense of self), intellect, mind, solids, liquids, gases, heat (fire), and ether (three-dimensional space). When one peers into a mirror, one doesn’t normally mistake the reflected image to be one’s real self, yet that is how we humans conventionally view our ever-mutating forms. We are, rather, in a fundamental sense, that which witnesses all transitory appearances. Everything which can be presently perceived, both tangible and immaterial, including we human beings, is a culmination of that primary manifestation. That is the most accurate and rational explanation for “karma” - everything was preordained from the initial spark, and every action since has unfolded as it was predestined in ETERNITY, via an ever-forward-moving trajectory. The notion of retributive (“tit for tat”) karma is just that - an unverified belief. Likewise, the notion of a distinct, reincarnating “soul” or “spirit” is largely a fallacious belief. Whatever state in which we currently find ourselves, is the result of two factors - our genetic make-up at conception and our present-life conditioning (which may include mutating genetic code). Every choice ever made by every human and non-human animal was determined by those two factors ALONE. Therefore, free-will is purely illusory, despite what most believe. As a consequence of residing within this dualistic universe, we experience a lifelong series of fluctuating, transient pleasures and pains, which can take the form of physical, emotional, and/or financial pleasure or pain. Surprisingly to most, suffering and pain are NOT synonymous. Suffering is due to a false sense of personal 'doership' - the belief that one is a separate, independent author of one’s thoughts, emotions, and deeds, and that, likewise, other persons are autonomous agents, with complete volition to act, think, and feel as they wish. Another way of stating the same concept is: suffering is due to the intellect being unwilling or unable to accept life as it manifests moment by moment. There are five SYMPTOMS of suffering, all of which are psychological in nature: 1. Guilt 2. Blame 3. Pride 4. Anxiety 5. Regrets about the past and expectations for the future These types of suffering are the result of not properly understanding what was explained above - that life is a series of happenings and NOT caused by the individual living beings. No living creature, including Homo sapiens, has personal free-will. There is only the Universal, Divine Will at play, acting through every body, to which William Shakespeare famously alluded when he scribed “All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players.” The human organism is essentially a biopsychological machine, comprised of the five gross material elements and the three subtle material elements, listed above. The ANTIDOTE to all mental anguish is to firstly discern pain from suffering, then to achieve complete relief from that miserable state of existence, by abandoning the erroneous belief in personal authorship, and abiding in the primordial sense of being (the unqualified “I am”, which is one's core identity). This is the very same peace which is experienced each night during the dreamless phase of the sleep cycle. This 'resting imperturbably as Flawless Awareness' can be practiced on a regular basis, until it is fully assimilated and integrated into one's life. Every person, from time immemorial, has been either intentionally or unwittingly seeking such causeless peace, most commonly by practicing one of the four systems of YOGA (religion) delineated in the sixteenth chapter of this work, or else in creating wealth and the acquisition of material possessions, or in psycho-physical pleasures. That peace of mind is often referred to as “happiness”, “joy”, or “love”, and often presumed to be a temporal state, since many assume, incorrectly, that continuous peace is unavailable in this life. Fortunately, that is not the case - it is eminently possible to live one's life acquainted with unbroken peace of mind, if destined. Following DHARMA (frameworks of authentic religion and societal duties) is not guaranteed to achieve that desired tranquillity of mind, but even so, it is beneficial for individuals, since it establishes a structure which enables one to more easily elevate oneself beyond the mundane, animalistic platform (i.e. the base pursuits of eating, sleeping and mating). Intrinsic to dharma is the division of the adult male population into the four classes of society and the inherent role of girls and women in society, as fully elucidated in latter chapters of this Holy Scripture. So, now that you understand life, and the reason why we are suffering here in this (ostensively) material universe, you are now able to become liberated from all mental suffering, RIGHT? WRONG! It is imperative to approach an authentic spiritual master to assist you to come to the above realization, by slowly undoing your past conditioning. Just as you have been conditioned over an entire lifetime to think one way, you need to be re-conditioned to think another way (in alignment with your essential identity as The Divine). For one who has himself for a teacher, that man has a veritable fool as his teacher. Even if you adhere closely to the precepts of a competent teacher, you may still not come to a full understanding of life, but if you are sincere, humble and dedicated, you will definitely find more peace in your daily life - all of which was DESTINED to occur, of course. Furthermore, if you are suitably-qualified and it was ordained, you may be fortunate enough to receive discipline from one of the EXTREMELY rare fully-enlightened masters residing on earth at any given time (perchance even the current World Teacher himself), and subsequently realize the aforementioned fundamental concepts, by diligently studying authoritative doctrines (especially the most accurate and complete of all extant Scriptures, this “Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity”), serving your guru with great reverence and devotion, and by deliberately avoiding undue harm to oneself, to other individuals, to society as a whole, and to the natural environment. ☮️

[@cindyd2956]

@@TheWorldTeacher wow that’s quite the synopsis. Thank you for thanking the time for this reply. You sound very wise World Teacher.

[@A_M_Bobb]

What?

[@mladenstoychev8254]

Never in my life had a conversation made me so happy.

[@mladenstoychev8254]

@@TheWorldTeacher replying to comments on KZbin. Lol I just appreciate being able to watch and listen such minds converse, man. None of my predecessors could do that.

[@TheWorldTeacher]

@@mladenstoychev8254 🐟 15. SUFFERING & HAPPINESS: To understand the nature of suffering, it is ABSOLUTELY imperative to first distinguish suffering from pain (and too, happiness from pleasure). There is a spectrum of pleasure and pain, with an extremely narrow neutral mid-point. Obviously, what constitutes a pleasurable or painful experience is dependent on an individual person's unique preferences. Not everybody likes the taste of chocolate. The feeling of pleasure/pain does NOT, ultimately, come from any external stimulus, believe it or not. It is located entirely in the mind and/or the intellect. That is the reason why highly-advanced spiritual adepts are able to renounce practically all pleasure-seeking activities, content with consuming simple foodstuffs and adequate sleep, and find continuous peace, happiness, and joy, within themselves (“ātmarāma” or “sva-sthaḥ”, in Sanskrit). Furthermore, the adjudication of whether a certain experience is either pleasurable or painful for a particular person can VARY according to circumstance. For example, one may have enjoyed consuming dairy products as a child, but as a vegetarian/vegan adult, find the taste of putrefied milk (cheese, yoghurt, butter, etc.) to be revolting. For one who is dying of starvation, the consumption of cactus leaves may seem to be rather pleasing to the senses, even though, in normal circumstances, it may be distasteful. There are THREE kinds of pleasure/pain: physical, emotional, and financial. For instance, consuming one’s favourite kind of fruit is physically pleasurable. Being hit by a falling coconut - physical pain. Falling in love is an example of psycho-emotional pleasure. Being angry at another - psychological pain. Winning a lottery is an example of financial pleasure. Being robbed - financial pain. There are three origins or CAUSES of pleasure/pain: one’s own body/mind (“adhyātma”, in Sanskrit) other persons/animals (“adhibhūta”, in Sanskrit), and material nature (“adhidaiva”, in Sanskrit). Some “suffer” pain from lack of money. Others “suffer” pain from an abundance of wealth. Some “suffer” pain from lack of food. Others “suffer” pain from an abundance of food. The quality of the “suffering” is different but the NATURE of the “suffering” is the same. OBVIOUSLY, in the previous paragraph, the term “suffer” is used in the stead of “experience”, because that is how the word is used in everyday parlance, in order to draw attention to the fact that pain can be due to an abundance of material opulence as well as a lack of material wealth. GENUINE suffering, on the other hand, is the result of mistaking oneself to be the author of one’s thoughts and actions, and other persons to be fully in control of their own thoughts and deeds. There are five forms (or symptoms) of suffering - all PSYCHOLOGICAL in nature: 1. Guilt/Shame 2. Blame/Bitterness 3. Pride/Arrogance 4. Worry/Anxiety 5. Regrets about the past and expectations for the future/Attachment to outcomes (i.e. being inattentive or negligent to the present moment) Suffering can be COMPLETELY transcended by understanding its source and consciously avoiding its manifestations. For example, as a child, your mother may have been particularly violent towards you. As clearly demonstrated in the chapter dealing with free-will, her violence was wholly due to her genetics and societal conditioning, neither of which were under her control. Blaming your mother for her actions leads to psychological anguish, which can only be cured by focusing on the sense of “I am”. In other words, by resorting to one’s essential nature (knowing one’s innermost being to be Pure Consciousness), one is emancipated from all sorrow. The initial feeling of anger towards your mother was a natural reaction to her violence, but the enduring resentment is existential misery. Any physical pain you may have experienced was just that - pain. That pain is not to be discounted, but it has probably faded-away into the distant past. The psychological distress or torment that you are currently experiencing is the ACTUAL suffering, and it can easily be negated by a proper attitude to life. When we contemplate painful past events (or possible future events) those thoughts occur, ostensively, in the present. It is simply not possible to experience the past or future - only the present moment and the thoughts and feelings of the present are experienced. Therefore, it is important to understand and acknowledge that suffering can only occur in the present and can be cured with mindful practices. It is beneficial to also consult a qualified psychotherapist on a regular basis, in order to slowly heal from such mental angst. When a man kicks his pet dog, the dog does NOT spend the remaining years of its life being angry or resentful towards its master. Dogs have very little concept of past, present and future, but live their lives from moment to moment. How unfortunate it is that lower animals are naturally more at peace with their circumstances than we highly-evolved human beings! Even if several of the more highly-evolved species of animals experience some of the five forms of psychological suffering, it does not seem to persist in the same way as it does for human beings. On a rather personal note, even before I fully grasped this teaching (and when I was a Theist), I sent the following message to my second ex-wife, which illustrates my understanding of her actions: “I want to assure you that I have absolutely no bitterness towards you WHATSOEVER for persecuting me. You are simply carrying-out the orders of your perverted, ignorant mind, and I pray that my Master forgives all your wicked thoughts and acts. My own heart is completely free of anger. I pity you and look forward to the day when you finally turn from sin.” When one fully imbibes the understanding that life is completely and utterly preordained, and that no living creature has individual free-will (see Chapter 11), one has no choice BUT to quit blaming, shaming, worrying, being prideful, and being attached to the results of his actions. Deep peace and happiness arises naturally as a consequence. Obviously, the understanding of the non-existence of personal freedom (as well as all the other concepts in this Holy Scripture) are also the result of destiny. The unfortunate fact is, even though unqualified peace is available to everyone, particularly in the current age (due to mass communication), very few human beings are destined for it. To put it very succinctly, true peace/happiness is simply the TRUE self. When the five forms of suffering come to an end (by liberation from the belief in individual agency), only unbroken peace of mind remains. It is completely independent of any temporal circumstances whatsoever. The common belief that happiness originates from sensory or psychological pleasures is an outright falsehood. One can eat only so much chocolate before the pleasure turns to pain. Even a man who fucks hundreds of beautiful women will eventually tire of his sexual conquests, and attempt to seek satisfaction by another means. “Pleasure” is often conflated with “happiness”, as are the terms “pain” and “suffering”. It ought to be noted that there is a rather blurry line between psycho-emotive pain and actual suffering, so any confusion is understandable. Cont...

[@TheWorldTeacher]

There are three kinds of PLEASURE, according to the three modes (“trī-guṇa”, in Sanskrit) described in Chapter 18: Pleasures in the Mode of PURITY (“sattva guṇa”, in Sanskrit) are those pleasures which seem to be difficult or hazardous in the beginning but turn-out to be sweet or enjoyable in the end. For example, studying medicine for almost a decade in university can be rather stressful and taxing, but once the student graduates and begins his career as a physician, he experiences the pleasure of being a healer to his community and earning a high-income. Pleasures in the Mode of PASSION (“rajas guṇa”, in Sanskrit) are those which are enjoyable in the beginning but turn to pain in the end. For instance, most everyone enjoys eating a slice of chocolate cake (or sweet tropical fruit, for those of us who are health-conscious) but the more of it one consumes, the more painful it will become, due to indigestion, bloating, and/or sugar-poisoning. Pleasures in the Mode of DARKNESS (“tamas guṇa”, in Sanskrit) are those which are toxic from beginning to end. For example, sleeping is a state of nescience (of daily life) and from the time one falls asleep to the time one awakens, one is prone to being attacked by one's enemies. Over-sleeping often results in lethargy. Smoking tobacco can also be considered tamasic, since ingesting smoke is toxic, and cancer may ensue. Humans have FOUR objectives, aims, purposes, or goals in life (“puruṣārtha”, in Sanskrit): 1. PLEASURE (“kāma”, in Sanskrit) includes all forms of sensual stimulation which provides a positive feeling in the mind of any particular individual. Thus pleasure-seeking is a legitimate aim, provided that it causes no undue harm to another living creature or to the biosphere. 2. PROSPERITY (“artha”, in Sanskrit) is seeking wealth in the form of real property or money, again, providing it has no detrimental effect on others (in other words, a legitimate means of accumulating wealth). Here, “legitimate” is used in the etymological sense of “lawful”. 3. RELIGIOSITY (“dharma”, in Sanskrit) signifies behaviours that are considered to be in accord with established universal principles, including duties, laws, morals, virtues, and righteous living. Read Chapters 12 onwards to become acquainted with the principles of religiosity/dharma. 4. LIBERATION (“mokṣa”, in Sanskrit) is freedom from suffering, as previously defined, and is considered to be the most noble of the four goals. This was traditionally interpreted as emancipation from the cycle of birth and death (“saṃsāra”, in Sanskrit) or soteriology (“going to Heaven”). As one goes through childhood, one naturally seeks sensory pleasures. As one enters adulthood, one starts to seek methods of acquiring material wealth, whether that be serving an employer, embarking on a mercantile enterprise, or seeking marriage to a well-to-do suitor. If and when one becomes disillusioned by pleasure and/or wealth, one makes enquiries into self-improvement and religious systems. When none of the former objectives provides the definitive peace and happiness which humans are ultimately seeking, one FINALLY aspires for liberation. Of course, there is no reason why ALL four objectives cannot be accomplished simultaneously. A truly-enlightened sage is fully comfortable in seeking pleasure (without going to undue lengths to achieve pleasure, and without being attached to the pleasures themselves), gaining sufficient wealth to meet his material requisites and the needs of his family, engaging in religious festivals and other dharmic activities (even if he has transcended all dogmas and rituals - most persons enjoy partaking in major religious festivities) and, of course, being liberated from the cycle of birth and death (or to be more accurate, from the sense of “doership“, which is, as explained, the origin of all psychological sorrows). “The animal does not have to face the kind of problems which oppress man and which are created by the operation of the intellect. An animal's sense of consonance and dissonance, affinity and antipathy, is intuitive and in-built as conditioned reflex, rather than subject to the complex interference of ratiocination, by which man is not only aware of his perceptions and actions, but also thinks about them. ” ************* “Pain and pleasure exist for animals, but it is not a problem for them, because the animal does not regret the past pain or fear the future danger. He lives in the NOW of nature. It is only the human being, who concerns himself with imagined opposites, which has a problem. There are, in fact, no opposites whatsoever, except as concepts, produced by the imagination.” ************* “It is impossible in life, to have the pleasure that is wanted, without the pain that is not wanted. They are, in fact, mutually interdependent, and therefore, inseparable.” ************* “One does not experience suffering - one suffers an experience. One who is aware of his true identity does not and can not suffer.” Ramesh Balsekar, Indian Spiritual Teacher. “Suffering exists, but no sufferer can be found. Actions exist, but no doer of actions is there. Nirvana exists, but no one who enters it. The Path exists, but no traveller can be seen.” Venerable Buddhaghosa, Visuddhimagga, 513.

[@michaellezama1398]

Ikr this convo puts a smile on my face

[@richardarcilla]

I am an electron captured by Peterson’s and Krauss’ proton/neutron.

[@cindysmalling4226]

This is so amazing!!! Thank you for this conversation! It’s powerful, enlightening and encouraging. “We are all religious. “We all want to believe.”

[@maxodgaard1335]

Not me, the world "as is", holds more than enough wonders.....

[@MrLeolesh]

@@maxodgaard1335 how do you know it exists, or rather how do you know what is a wonder in the first place? You seem to treat religion as a primitive science. Needless to say, you couldn't be more wrong.

[@maxodgaard1335]

@Leo Tsisin Religion and science mix as oil and water.... Religion no matter which, is a primitive way to try to comprehend the world.

[@MrLeolesh]

@@maxodgaard1335 it is not, nor is science. Thanks for demonstrating that you're utterly clueless as to the philosophy of both.

[@maxodgaard1335]

@Leo Tsisin Science makes you and me communicate now here on this platform on a server in the real natural world..... Religion will keep you dumb and ignorant. It will add nothing but fictional absurdities to human kind until enlightenment finally finishes it off....Sorry but it is what it is..... 🤷 what is even worse is that you got brainwashed as a child and now the delusion is so strongly built in you that you are blinded/cut off from reality..... You have the perspective of a child....

[@af4396]

A great conversation with two people that overlap 80% and diverge at the extreme remaining 20%. I think they both are trying to get around each other's "potential flaws" which I believe is as Krauss said about Peterson, that he may read into myth and theology too much at times and extract more out of it than it can actually provide. With Krauss, simultaneously being a bit dismissive about certain questions or too certain of some answers. But all in all, a very complimentary couple :P