From the Ruins of Empire: Pankaj Mishra and Ian Buruma | The New School

[@rhyton66]

Best part of the discussion: Buruma says: "Hasn't Universalism done enough damage already?"

[@mcwarhol17]

The moderator seems so against the book what's his deal...I would attend the event to talk about the book not critique it. I mean this is like a live book review WTF??

[@garymorgan3314]

It's actually nothing of the sort. It's a very interesting discussion and Buruma doesn't seem at all "against the book." Unless I have completely misunderstood the discussion. I found it very enlightening.

[@ajaxjaiswal3442]

Love 💖 the moderator!!! He's cutting through a lot of his bullshit!!!!

[@user-cj1wr5lb1r]

Russia in 1905, as in 2022-24, has been European, but not 'western', while Japan wasn't then and is not now European, but has been western for well over a century.

[@zachbrown6609]

I am confused about the discussion about race during the 35 and 40 minute mark. Is he talking about racism being present in the west, and fear of immigrants in Europe, brings racism against Muslims in Europe? And what was he trying to say about racism in America? Can anyone explain? Republican campaign?

[@msenkyrikova]

Not a fan of the moderator. He keeps cutting the autor off. What is the point of him mediating but only to speak his own opinion?

[@christopherprim1973]

I think this guy's a lightweight. He has impressive sounding ideas; he can certainly analyze history and power from his perspective, but it's all the last couple of centuries' indictment of who the latest and greatest oppressors were. No one actually disagrees with that; we just want the long view, and to 'settle the score' on a greater scale, if such a thing is in our best interest. We know he can critique, but what can he build? What can he maintain?

[@tamer5017]

Most intellectuals are in the business of critique not creation.

[@christopherprim1973]

Yeah. I was watching Chomsky's 'Manufacturing Consent' again the other day. He's a great media analyst, and I wish folks on the left would check him out, and not just gobble up MSM wholesale, but we're all on our paths, and more will be revealed.

[@pancakeslayer101]

If you actually paid dilligent attention to the conversation he by no means draws a distinct binary in allocating good or evil on the side of the west or Asia. Rather the division is drawn between modernity/pre-modern empire and transferance of both technique and knowledge and the it's ensuing impact.

[@garymorgan3314]

Buruma looks a LOT like the late, lamented Tim Pigott Smith (with a soupçon of Tony Blair).

[@soros250]

I wish once, just once, someone would ask people like Mishra: How have people gained from Western imperialism? What advantages has it brought us? Universal literacy? Education for commoners? More rights for women and the ordinary citizen? Science? Modern medicine? Modes of mass communication? Sanitation? (Try living with open sewers and tell me that they're better than underground tunnels for your waste.) Yes, there are problems now that more people are living a Western lifestyle: more pollution and consumption, etc. That reality has to change, but going back to traditional lifestyles isn't going to make most people happy. Or, are we willing that some sections of the planet (or society) remain "underdeveloped"? (A possible solution for Africa, India, S. America.)

[@ashwaqahmed9656]

I think You should stay in your country no one want your “help”.

[@Sam-tz8ou]

India had better education system before the British came. Women had better rights under native Indian rulers, had democracy too. Most of the foundation for modern science was from what Indians, Chinese and the Egyptians had also to an extent Sumerians.

[@Sam-tz8ou]

India was the richest country until European colonial barbarians came and destroyed it.

[@pancakeslayer101]

I think you have have slightly misunderstood mishra's point, if I'm not being overly presumptious. The moderator, and both Mishra highlight how the dialectic of imperialism from the West is vital in birthing national mythologies which mimic (in function) similar nationalist notions developed in the west - this was due to Western materialism (in the broadest philosophical sense of the term) brought a degree of rationality and technical mastery unrivalled worldwide. This led to a split subjectivity in the colonial pysche, with at one level, an acknowledgement of the superiority of particular western modes of reason and organisation of polity and military - but at another level, an assertion of their own superiority in the cultural sphere and reorganisation/reconstitution in order to defend their own value-systems within a western meta-framework of states, national sovereignty, demos (even at a minimal level). Mishra is still extremely critical of the political culture and practices of the existing ruling party in India, and is very principled in that sense. He does not white wash people like Ghandi's own racialised hierarchies, seeing South African's as individuals lesser than Indians within the imperial hierarchy of citizenship.

[@zorgzarg9849]

This nonsense about Turkey and the EU never fails to make my gorge rise. Should Spain (if it wanted) be allowed to join the African Union? After all, there's nothing but a narrow strip of water separating it from that continent and it has some oblique, historical links to North Africa. Add to it that Spain took slaves from the shores of Africa just as Ottoman pirates raided the shores of Europe. What's good for the goose... (The EU is a monstrosity as it is, but that's another matter.)

[@garymorgan3314]

But Turkey is half In Europe!

[@NorthernObserver]

You mean Turkish occupied eastern Thrace.

[@dimitristsagdis7340]

Half !? pls do yourself a favour and check a recent map.