From Toxic to Sweet: The Spectrum of Japanese BL || S4E21

This week we’re taking a look at Japanese BL and its ability to create such great shows on two ends of the BL spectrum - dark, toxic yaoi (non-derogatory) and soft, dreamy youth romance.
Has the term 'toxic yaoi' transcended Japanese BL fandom spaces - see the Home Alone toxic Christmas yaoi meme - and does it even have a space in the fandom anymore? Do 'toxic' shows and movies go 'too far'? Are the sweet, fluffy shows 'boring'?
As always, be sure to share your thoughts with us down below~
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#japanesebl #japaneseblseries #boysloveseries #boysloveseries #cherrymagic #mylovemixup #dangerousdrugsofsex #mypersonalweatherman #mybeautifulman #podcast #yaoi

[@Lollygirlpops]

Pixie! Hiiii! I think the Japanese anthology series you were thinking of with the beautiful couples is Kiss x Kiss x Kiss. I could be mistaken though! Interestingly, one of the actors in that is the same dude who’s playing Payu in the J version of LITA. And he was also in another of my favourite JBLs from this year, At 25:00 in Akasaka, where his role was to be annoyingly hot 😅 The show itself was pretty much on the wholesome end of the scale though. I’d also place Perfect Propose and Love is Better the Second Time Around in that wholesome bracket that Old Fashion Cupcake sits in. I still think I’ll give DDoS a miss. It sounds far too extreme for me but each to their own ☺️

[@LoveCastTheBLPodcast]

Yeeees! You're right, that's the name of the show, thank you! 😁 Also I recently watched the at 25:00, in Akasaka! Loved it 😍🤌🏻

[@Lollygirlpops]

@@LoveCastTheBLPodcast Aww you’re welcome ☺️ And wasn’t that show great! So glad you liked it! One of the few that have managed to stick the landing this year so far. It had such a satisfying ending 😊

[@pitterpater2273]

Definitely missed Alexa this episode (I'm an Alexa bias, lol), would’ve loved to hear her input, but great ep!! I’m glad we hear two sides of the love/hate relationship with JBLs. I would’ve liked to hear more of Kayla’s personal opinions, I feel like they were definitely more of a mediator/“I agree with both sides.” Nonetheless, awesome job! (You guys also never mentioned Minato’s Coin Laundry, which is my FAVE JBL of all time. I think it falls into being not toxic at all, but it does have it’s moments)

[@LoveCastTheBLPodcast]

We also missed Alexa this ep!!

[@ceeaich]

Interesting topic, thanks for going there! I like both healthy and toxic storylines! 👍 I have preferences and there are stories that don't appeal to me personally, but I think that's true for everybody 🙂 So, there’s so much I could say, but where I always land mentally when we're talking about a story or relationship that does not work in real life, I think it's important that we're drawing very clear lines about the conclusions we come to when watching these shows (made in this conversation already, thank you!) Especially since BL and queer media are genres with viewers/readers of all ages. - R**e is not sex, it’s sexual violence - R**e is a crime, and not a solution in any scenario - Performing a crime on a person who is at their lowest, to the point where they don’t want to be living, isn’t saving them. It’s taking advantage of them. I think it’s really important to point these out because, if we’re being real, I don’t think the majority of people are picking up a manga or watching a movie called, “The Dangerous Drugs of Sex” purely for the psychology (first, at least). Would exploring dark psychology be a part of it? Oh heck yeah, but most people are in it for the word “sex” first… This kinda reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with someone about "Fifty Shades of Grey". I was trying to make the point that while I don't think it's a feminist story, I thought that the act of a woman writing a story about a character who explores her sexuality in a "darker way" is feminist. I didn't do a great job at making my point then, I remember LOL... and for real, that book is pretty rough!😂 It can be a hard thing to articulate, so I appreciate Heather and Pixie for making their cases! It’s perfectly natural to explore dark places, as long as we’re pointing out things that are not acceptable in real life and dynamics in relationships that anyone shouldn't aspire to. Like, the relationship dynamics in My Beautiful Man… that's not the dynamic we'd want for ourselves, respectfully. But, it’s passionate, and fun to watch, and makes you think… which it the point. Totally agreed, critical thinking is required. Exploration is natural for every person, it’s just important that conversations, like this one, are happening and that we come to conclusions for ourselves about what is right and what is wrong. What is the lesson or value in the story that interests us vs. what is right for us in real life. ** omg, last edit sorry! There's so many heavy topics in J-BL/J-Queer media, so thanks again for taking a look and having this conversation! Hopefully I didn't offend anyone with my take, you can just delete this comment if I did, lol.

[@LoveCastTheBLPodcast]

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us! No need to be sorry - we LOVE comments like these :D I think your conversation around 50 Shades and how it can kinda be both things is where I was trying to go with my thoughts on DDoS. It's such a nuanced topic to take on and I know that there's loads more we could have probably covered + could have worded some of our thoughts in a better way. Like you said, it's a very difficult thing to articulate, especially while remaining respectful of each others opinions. Totally agree about the need to draw very clear distinctions around the conclusions we come to in these types of conversations and what they may look like in the real world. And, as always, remain respectful when people have differing opinions from yourself. Thank you, again, for taking the time to put down your thoughts into this comment. I really enjoyed reading it and you had me thinking further on some of the things I was saying in this episode

[@AngeLstoCooLforU]

It's funny how polarizing "happy of the end" is when I thinks it's a masterpiece. People either really love it or really hate it. I think my favorite bl of all time Honestly I can see why it is categorized as "toxic" when really I think it's more traumatic if anything. The characters make choices that are very understandable considering what they have been through. Very heavy show that requires a ton of trigger warnings but genuinely if you can stomach episode 4 it really all makes since. If anything happy of the end is more comparable to "bed friend" or "sing in love"

[@LoveCastTheBLPodcast]

Isn't it great that there are so many different shows that cater to so many different people?!?! I didn't watch Happy of the End but I can appreciate your love of it.

[@AngeLstoCooLforU]

@@LoveCastTheBLPodcast truly the beauty of jbl and its ability to cater to everyone ❤️

[@susunabl]

I dont think you really remember or watched the entire Happy of the end because it did make sense or at least more that dangers of drugs and sex. He hit him because he wasnt actually looking to sleep with that night, he was only looking for the card he stole from the guy he used to live with. That they decided to sleep together after that is just like any other BL.

[@LoveCastTheBLPodcast]

I said in the episode that the first episodes made no sense to me and I couldn't finish it. So I didn't watch it all. But I'm saying that as just my feelings and not a comment on if others enjoyed it. I have pretty controversial likes myself, so no judgement here ☺️

[@HanhonymousLex]

Fun topic. Theory: I think something to consider when you are defining "toxic" and why there's a blurry line of whether "Dangerous Drugs of Sex" is considered BL or yaoi is the evolution of the terms, and how various people coming into BL these days were introduced to it. Old-school followers of yaoi may be more embracing of the toxic beats because of how they're used to it from the beginning, and when the genre evolved into these live-action BLs, many of the stories have become softer and sweeter because live action makes things more real. These days, I believe a lot of people see BL with an emphasis on the "love" -- sweeter. Like Thai BLs definitely lean toward sweeter -- KinnPorsche was an outlier!. But JBLs tend to still embrace the spectrum, probably because of where the roots lay. Also, why people is BL is different from person to person. I remember a friend of mine being shocked when I said that the couple getting together isn't the most important thing for me. Don't get me wrong -- I do want that -- but not to the exclusion of all else (i.e. emotionally authentic character development, etc.). Otherwise, I'd just want fan edits. So I'm all for exploring the so-called "toxic" content in many of these shows if it's done well and truly does challenge the power or psychological dynamics. I can take a degree of toxic for sure. I loved My Beautiful Man, but I draw the line at TharnType lol. Of course YMMV. (Also End of the World With You started out very toxic but ended up sweet, which may be my favorite trajectory for JBL.) I have yet to watch Dangerous Drugs of Sex. I've been properly warned before I delve into that! OK, jumping off my soap box now! Thanks for the recommendations!

[@LoveCastTheBLPodcast]

Everyone has their own threshold of what they do and don't enjoy, and I think my biggest critique of the 'toxic' side of BL is that the shows don't often come with any warnings. So, unless you're fully immersed in the fandom, you're often going in with no warnings at all. The potential to be severely triggered is high (like I was with DDoS :/). By all means, make the shows that are 'toxic'. But give people decent warnings!! I feel like we could have spent much longer discussing this topic - there's just so much to dive into! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this one :D

[@HanhonymousLex]

​@@LoveCastTheBLPodcast true! since it's all under one umbrella term, there's no indication of difference in content!

[@sprinkles4375]

It is Eternal Yesterday.

[@LoveCastTheBLPodcast]

Took us way too long to remember what it was called haha!

[@nachico94]

A show is BL even if it's really toxic. They are toxicity in the fluffy one and the romanticism it. I don't agree with rape use as plot point to trigger the audience. Rape is rape even the raper as ""good intentions"" it's traumatic not a therapy tool. We have the same problems in not BL content.

[@LoveCastTheBLPodcast]

I think our biggest takeaway from this discussion is the need to have proper warnings on shows that contain 'toxic' themes so people are properly warned before watching!