Frosthaven Review: The Long awaited Sequel to Gloomhaven

[@MtrCtyKid]

If there was ever a game to bring back the component drop for....

[@leadbones]

I'm so glad he doesn't do that any more. It killed a little piece of me every time.

[@Jsleezy_2000]

Triggered!!! 😂😂

[@azizmandar]

I was going to suggest he do this for the smorgasbord component drop once he's done with his copy. It would be insane.

[@MrCrixmadine2]

Ha

[@TheJDough1]

If he did a component drop, it would change to a review of the table that could absorb that!

[@nathanmays7926]

The biggest challenge is finding a group of friends committed to meeting regularly and see the whole thing through to the end!

[@JackgarPrime]

That's why solo is also an option!

[@scotthartley7837]

Been an issues since dnd was made too

[@Guido-vj7so]

Yeah best player count is problaby 3, but good luck completing this game with 3 adults. Solo is the way to go 😊

[@AlmightyCow1]

I hope they do a Jaws of the Lion: Frosthaven. These big boxes are just too much for me, but the smaller version is perfect. I hope they keep that line going.

[@marcelcwertetschka]

isaac pretty much confirmed in a recent interview he is considering that option

[@jeffschaub]

100%, I've yet to start Gloomhaven, but my young son and I are playing JOTL and LOVE the ability to set up on a whim and get a quick scenario completed on a school night. I rarely have 3-4 hours at a time.

[@Ikatik]

I agree. The biggest thing for me really is setup and tear down with the big box. Way easier to flip out the scenario book and 10-15 components needed per level.

[@Roundtablist]

Hopefully it's called Whiskers of the Sea Lion, or Flippers of the Penguin... Ahem - I may not be a dad, but I'm allowed to practice, aren't I?!!!

[@JonReid01]

​@@marcelcwertetschka when

[@namedjasonc]

*unless it's changed from Gloomhaven, the card in the modifier deck that you called a "complete miss" is actually "no damage". While the attack does no damage, if it has any other effects (like stunning a target or whatever), those still happen.

[@tomlangan990]

Yeah im only for the steam digital version of gloomhaven. It's been a great way to play as I often work away, so play online with a couple of friends. 2/3 scenarios a week. Not having to do set up or upkeep is fantastic. It merges gloomhaven with jaws of the lion if you buy the slc. I'm hoping they'll do forgotten circles then frosthaven. Will keep us busy for years!

[@mccallosone4903]

im very glad i tried it on steam before i setup the box i bought. i wasnt a fan, so i was able to sell my box at nearly full price. not a fan of the gloomhaven series at all, i hate deckbuilders

[@IamKnucks]

I know I'll be playing it for a long time, but I don't know if the people I'm playing with will be playing it for a long time. In that case, it's nice to have removable stickers so you can reset the board for new people.

[@rmathiesen5125]

We house rule the loot pickup thing bc we're casual dad's that only have 3 hours every few weeks so, we wanna see more of the content when we play bc will never ever get back to it. No loot left behind!!

[@MRG3M4R]

I use the removable stickers to be able to resale after we play through it. We were able to recoup almost 85% of Gloomhaven when we sold it. I'm guessing if you use the normal stickers you wouldn't be able to get a much.

[@birkhoms]

How do you go about the stickers that you have to put into the rule book as well as the scenario chart? I haven´t found a good solution to put them back in without going trough major hoops? Hence I have yet to start properly into the game.

[@elqord.1118]

Frosthaven is THE campaign game. I really won’t need another one for at least two years

[@ilqrd.6608]

@Patrick White Meh

[@siriactuallysara]

I’m glad they improved the story. There was only 1 part of gloomhaven’s story that I enjoyed and was memorable. Otherwise gloomhavens story was very skippable. Spoiler for gloomhaven- My favorite part by far was joining the demons and helping them overthrow the city and then the demons give you missions to track down the rebels. You work with demon Allies. That was so different I loved it. Most people choose to fight the demons, but being Allie’s with the demons and overthrowing the city of gloomhaven was extremely fun.

[@theshogunstein6475]

How many of the people who bought Frosthaven finished Gloomhaven?

[@koalabrownie]

0.7%

[@bigd5773]

Tom, now that you’ve played KDM, does this seem like Gloomhaven with a KDM settlement phase added in? Seems like a “have a encounter with monster(s), take loot, have a settlement event/encounter, upgrade your settlement, upgrade your dudes, repeat” feel to it. Even the fact that it is super hard.

[@bigd5773]

Lol, right after I posted, Tom mentioned it a bit.

[@dominicthompson5443]

KDM was easy. Alot of broken mechanics to cheese the game

[@simonadams]

I had Gloomhaven but cooled on it hugely because of the set up and tear down, and because, for a supposed "campaign" "story" game, it doesn't pay off nearly enough for the time it asks you to invest. JoTL solved basically every problem. Frosthaven looks like a giant step backwards.

[@ilqrd.6608]

Use. The. App. Problem solved

[@Sinjet247]

@nos ad aquilonem Think they’re talking about the digital game version which does solve the problems of tear down and setup because it’s the entire Gloomhaven experience in digital format for a fraction of the cost and is fully online capable. Owned Gloomhaven and put a dozen hours into it but fell off because it’s such a slog, the digital game fixed everything for me

[@Rex1987]

i just hope there will be something like JoTL but for frosthaven.

[@simonadams]

@Ilqr D. if you need to use a campaign tracking app (I assume you're talking about) to solve problems with the boardgame, then it has serious usability issues a la Through The Ages. @Chuck Zodl ​If the answer is "play the video game version", well now you've put a boardgame into a realm where it simply cant compete: modern (even classic) video game rpgs are lightyears ahead in basically every regard. We play boardgame campaign for the tactility and shared experience, not really for the depth of mechanics, story, or world building

[@hugovandenbosch7593]

A good insert/organizer will significantly improve setup-time. Obvious downsides are additional (high) costs and needing to assemble it. I use an insert for Gloomhaven and every single session I found it crucial and was really happy with it. Just my two cents 😊

[@Snipercapt09]

Thanks for committing so much time and effort to this game before doing your review. You are more up front about your time spent and committed to bringing us a full picture more than most reviewers out there who rush out their opinions

[@JJW667]

Am I the only one watching every Frosthaven review because I’m just too excited while waiting for my copy?

[@IamKnucks]

I've always thought of cards as stamina. Not health. You can become exhausted.

[@SSJCyan]

It is that'd why stamina potions give u cards back

[@russellscott1151]

Jaws of the lion was great but we gave up on Gloomhaven because we got bored. 1) we very rarely managed to get any loot cos you just don’t have time in 2 player mode. 2) we never got to change character cos we couldn’t meet the right things to complete a quest. 3) every scenario was much the same, just kill everything. 4) story seemed redundant as it was just kill everything 5) no puzzles or varying interest. 6) we went up the levels (I got to level 9 magic user) but the scenarios just seem to get harder. You’d think as you got more powerful it might make things a little easier but nope just harder still. Now maybe some of this was cos we were in 2 player mode I don’t know but it hasn’t inspired me to go to frosthaven. Oh and the upkeep, we didn’t use the app as didn’t realise it exists.

[@annominous826]

There's no reason to dismiss the idea of removable stickers. My wife and I own Gloomhaven and Jaws of the Lion, both with the removable sticker sets, because we expect to keep the games for the rest of our lives and potentially play them again in 10, 20, 40 years. We have a modest budget and can't really keep up with all the great stuff coming out, so when we buy a board game, it's for life, unless we really don't care for it.

[@CriticalComplainer]

Setup and take-down are the primary reasons I play this game on PC. The digital app for Gloomhaven was a HUGE boon for me. I'm sure Frosthaven will have one eventually. That being said, the game's "Difficulty" is purely a result of how massively punishing the combat decks can be. The wild variance between taking double-damage and missing an attack can absolutely end a mission in a totally unfair way. Rarely, if ever, does my attack flipping double-damage ever matter because most of the time, I'm taking actions to min-max my hits to perfectly kill something or even overkill something.

[@Trockenmatt]

There is an official house rule where you treat Crits as +2 and Misses as -2

[@CriticalComplainer]

@@Trockenmatt Yeah, I noticed that in the digital version. I'll need to give it a try sometime to see how it feels.

[@Redskies453]

You can equip an iron helmet and treat x2 as a +0. Only two in the shop tho. Buy a bless at the sanctuary and your miss prob goes from 50% to 25% per reshuffle.

[@bobbobbing4381]

What I take from this review is that it is like some RPG video game as a board game.

[@dressydressy6246]

I’m loving the Gloomhaven app.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

In case you missed it: The score was 9/10.

[@VeeeeryyyFaaaastSlooooth]

Great review. For me Gloomhaven and this aswell is just too much. Too much stuff, too much setup, too much for sake of having too much. Jaws was awesome tho, similar thing for Frosthaven will be an instabuy.

[@Kingeptacon]

Players could really benefit from a dedicated gaming table that you can just leave the game sitting on for a few months while you go through the campaign.

[@kennychan6645]

I liked jaws of the lion - it’s easily 10/10 for me but I am sure I won’t get frost heaven or original Gloomhaven as I hated the setup time. Let’s come back to this when we see a streamlined frost haven jaws of the lion then we can discuss…

[@Judgegyd3]

They did announce that they will be creating a scenario map book for both gloomhaven and frosthaven after the success of jaws of the lions scenario book

[@kennychan6645]

That’s great to know! I will be waiting with cautious…

[@Zorayas]

Hey Tom, do you have any plans to review the Luck Duck app for this? Would love to know if that simplifies setup etc.

[@InnerMedium]

I would highly suggest the Xhaven app. Extremely reduces time between scenarios.

[@KurtDepner]

Thanks for the review, Tom. Still waiting for my copy but no worries; working our way through Sleeping Gods right now so that should preoccupy my time for awhile. 🙃

[@Vijay-tg7hf]

Sleeping Gods is so fun haha

[@PsychicLord]

Mine arrived yesterday, so they are still coming through.

[@ramonosuke]

I wish they use a book(s) for the scenario maps like they did in Jaws of the Lion. Having to sort through all those tiles was one of the things I despised in Gloomhaven.

[@Br0kenM0nkey]

Sadness that Dice Tower couldn't get 3 others to do a group review with Tom.

[@koalabrownie]

They sometimes have a second review for the same game though not recently-

[@PappaTrond]

Thanks for the review - can't wait to get the Gang together and play it ourselves. :)

[@VillainCollector1]

Nice review Tom!

[@scotthartley7837]

Just bought jaws of lion to play with my kids. When i get through and move to frosthaven. Can we use the old classes in frosthaven or are those forever gone

[@christophthunecke8496]

Hey, you can take your characters from Jaws of the Lion and use them in Frosthaven as well. Loved Jaws of the Lion, although I think that the characters itself are nicer to play in Frosthaven. They just have more variables. And there are still "easy" characters to play if you are playing with younger kids or people who have never played the game. Worked pretty good for us. That being said, it is your game, so feel free to play whatever characters you want! =)

[@nshaw1299]

The image of Tom talking over the huge grey box, tapping his hands on it, looked like the french knight taunter from 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail'... 'I blow my nose at you, you silly English keniggets!!'

[@ThymeKeeper]

I don't understand why games have to be made woefully difficult and then allow the player to scale down. They should be made easy, or at least average, and allow the player to scale UP. What's the difference? There is a HUGE difference between allowing someone to change the difficulty level because they don't feel good enough and need to be challenged LESS and doing it because they feel TOO good and want to be challenged MORE. One feels like failure and the other feels like success.

[@Sinreal]

It scales both ways, easier and harder.

[@lassepoulsen7777]

The video claims that GH was hard. Gloomhaven wasn't woefully difficult (perhaps a few scenarios where slightly overtuned/luck dependent). But it also had classes that could solo 3man setups easily. So wouldn't spend too much energy being concerned with FH difficulty based on Tom Vasel. I do appreciate that designers attempt to have a reasonable challenge as the baseline. If you ask me, then GH was for the most part too easy (in particular at higher levels with better gear available). It started out great though.

[@haukionkannel]

@@lassepoulsen7777 If you read the comment in Steam. People complain that the game is too hard, so yeah... I like the difficulty of this game and GH was not too hard, but i like complex games and dice chucker's did not like this game at all because they did lose even at the easiest level...

[@lassepoulsen7777]

@@haukionkannel sounds great! Gaming in general needs a return to the times when normal difficulty involved being challenged :)

[@tomasxfranco]

This is the kind of thing that I think works better as a videogame.

[@synnical77]

Yup. Since Gloomhaven is on PC it's the only way I'll consider playing it going forward. Online multiplayer is a plus

[@RageBadgerGaming]

Having played both, I much prefer the tabletop version.

[@SeerMagicX]

@@synnical77 Agreed. There is 0% chance I'll ever own Frosthaven in physcial form. I will buy the pc version day 1 when it come out.

[@shaneannigans]

I agree. I've almost completely abandoned video/computer games (including app-dependent board games) MUCH prefering physical versions... but this system is one exception.

[@djb3v]

Agreed and this would be a lame one. Gloomhaven video game? Hell no.

[@Snowbo92]

How do the road encounters feel compared to Gloomhaven? A bunch of the GH ones are so obtuse; they don't give you enough information, and are sometimes punishing regardless of the choice you make (sometimes, without even knowing how either choice will affect the outcome). Is Frosthaven any smoother with those?

[@alifant1944]

I just played through 5 scenarios. I can assure you they got even more confusing. It's clear that Isaac is playing with us: the results of an event are usually the opposite of what you think. We've faced an event with a resolution that triggers only if one of you said specific words during the discussion!

[@Snowbo92]

@@alifant1944 Eugh that's disappointing. My friends and I just ignore the GH encounters completely because of how frustrating they are... we just added all of the possible reward items into the merchant deck, and unlocked all of the scenarios

[@giannisc.5254]

So, with all these stickers and stuff you open etc. Is this a Legacy "one and done" game ? How do you play again from the start if you put stickers on the main board and the rulebook ? I guess the ones in the rulebook you can ignore, but what about the ones on the board ?

[@b.minister]

I just watched his other video (and I own Frosthaven) and he said that it really isn't made to be replayed. I guess you could, but it would be a huge pain. You are putting stickers all over the place and opening things that can't be resealed. It's meant to be played through once, but for a very long time.

[@giannisc.5254]

@@b.minister I'm guessing they might release removable stickers like they did for Gloomhaven Jaws of the Lion. Having said that, i strongly dislike altering the state of something i own so this is a major con for me. Whatever, every game doesn't have to be for everyone, so maybe this isn't for me. I'll just play something else. Thanks for the info !

[@KarpetRydOFunk]

Oh, no! They're using that map reveal system they introduced in Forgotten Circles? I absolutely despised that! I don't care if it "spoils" the scenario a bit, I hated pausing the game to flip through the book and set up a new tile.

[@Fwoggye]

Okay then just read ahead and set up the whole map at once. That's the beauty of cardboard gaming, play it your way!

[@Redskies453]

I agree. I play solo so I just set up the whole thing. I might raise the difficulty one level as I do use the privilege of planning my entry to a room based on the occupants.

[@Draffut2003]

The long awaited review of the long awaited sequel.

[@RageBadgerGaming]

Thank you for your thoughts on the game. I always love to hear other content creator's thoughts on the game. :)

[@marclarell]

At the beginning of playing gloomhaven i was have mixed feelings about the permanent stickers, especially the skill enhancements. But for some reason, perhaps because of the sheer size of the game, it feels so rewarding to progress the state of the game that i'd rather have permanent stickers than removable ones. As soon as we finish all possible scenarios i will hang the map up on a wall.

[@chucktelschow]

If you could only keep one, would it be FH or Oathsworn?

[@Kingeptacon]

I just bought both. I don't own a lot of games though.

[@mattr8853]

Any thoughts on the app? Gloomhaven Helper was quite literally a game-changer and I'm wondering if Lucky Duck has pulled off the same.

[@Gherkinkhan]

The app is quite buggy as of now. There have been rules mistakes, and some functionally hasn't been there. The old GH campaign manager was great; it's a shame they couldn't do this one as well.

[@iamspamus8784]

@@Gherkinkhan we use XHaven Assistant (the replacement for Gloomhaven assistant). It works pretty well.

[@Gherkinkhan]

@@iamspamus8784 I'll have to check that one out. Edit: My first comment referred to how I miss the excellent campaign tracker from Esoteric software. The xhaven app is a great scenario assistant, though.

[@Rincewindl]

They really did strengthen the two weakest parts of Gloomhaven, the between mission step AND the story, the story actually made me tear up a little bit as the game described a long forgotten kingdom in such simple but powerful words.

[@grungekids11]

Outstanding review, Tom! Thank you. (And missing the Eric Summerer voice overs for both the intros and outros. Is he still on board at Dicetower Studios?)

[@Noonycurt]

Yes, Eric is still with the Dice Tower. (He does "At The Table" with Tom.) They have removed the canned intros and outros though, which is ok for me.

[@grungekids11]

@@Noonycurt lol! Summerer's voice just set's the tone so well tho!

[@arthurdent9281]

I was kind of glad they stopped with the intro stuff. Kind of felt a bit dated.

[@Noonycurt]

I've played Gloomhaven for a while, but finally stopped because of setup and teardown time. Having even more of that is an absolute no-go for me.

[@Rex1987]

have you tried Jaws of the lion? the book you have there makes setup super much more easy and effective. It one of the main reasons why i like it more.

[@Noonycurt]

@@Rex1987 Yes, I have, and it's fine. I'll probably buy the digital version on Steam.

[@ghazkullthraka1698]

Its also 3years that my gloom is on my table❤️❤️❤️

[@Kentchangar]

Critical miss and double damage, Tom said: "When you draw both of those you shuffle your deck" Is that a mistake or did the rules change?

[@yobasux]

It was also in gloomhaven. The cards have circular arrows which means shuffle at end of turn. Monster cards can have same icon

[@Sgrand80]

It was always the rule. When you draw either, at the end of that combat phase shuffle the deck back together. The cards have the recycle type icon

[@yogibbear]

He's not teaching the rules, just briefly describing them so you can judge what's going on.

[@Kentchangar]

@@Sgrand80 Yes, that was the rule in Gloomhaven. He said: "When you draw both" instead of either which was confusing.

[@alejandrotuazon4831]

Imagine that the gloomhaven series of games has a longer setup time than kingdom death: monster

[@Static442]

Way longer setup!

[@kafka0622]

How does it compare to other race games like Heat?

[@UnimatrixOne]

lol

[@alcovitch]

I don't think Frosthaven is a game for you if out of this video you thought comparing it to Heat was appropriate.

[@kafka0622]

@@alcovitch Oh I know it's not a game for me but it compares just fine to Heat. They are both race games using cards.

[@bedwyr84]

🤣🤣🤣 🎣🎣🎣

[@alcovitch]

@@kafka0622 They are NOTHING a like. You have a timer with your diminishing hand size, forcing you to be efficient, but in no way is Frosthaven (or gloomhaven) a race game. Comparing them is absurd.

[@nicksims2827]

Regarding the difficulty - this is a major underrated strength to me. Tom found it hard, so he adjusted the difficulty and now he lives it. There are 8? difficulty levels. I can’t think of another game with that amount of variability. It means that it can be just challenging enough for everyone and you can adjust it depending on your party capabilities at the time

[@koalabrownie]

These games both look cool but JotL is as far as I'll likely ever go and even then, it doesn't get played. I could only play it solo while watching my son but if it comes to a solo game I'll break out MU X-Men first.

[@Kamo442]

A digital version would fix the downsides

[@Dyskresiac]

I loved Gloomhaven. But then I cooled on it after Jaws of the Lion. Jaws is just so superior. It's really refined. And I have a feeling I will cool on Jaws for Frosthaven. You can see the improvement, the playtesting, the feedback. I cannot wait.

[@Mahler1988]

I don't really get the "cooling on Gloomhaven" part, I see it a lot nowadays. Well, that's the (big) base of the work and then the devs expanded on it. It is the masterpiece that broke all standards and renewed boardgames. It's like saying you've cooled on Mario Kart 64 because Mario Kart on the Switch exists.

[@Dyskresiac]

@@Mahler1988 I've cooled on it because it's not a masterpiece. It's no Mario Kart 64. It's SNES Mario Kart. It tried a lot of new things and a lot of them really broke ground. But many didn't. Retirement system is awful, the battle goals in Vanilla are bad. And Gloomhaven is just straight up broken. Triangles, Spears, Music Notes, and to a slightly lesser extent Lightning Bolt, Cthulhu, and Diviner break the game immeasurably. While we used to struggle early in GH the later half was one shotting without breaking a sweat. And the story was atrocious. Gloomhaven did a lot right. It also did a lot wrong. Jaws wasn't just an introduction it was also a distillation of the system. And it worked better without all the clunk and jank of Vanilla. Frosthaven is that refinement further and. It may very well be the Mario Kart 64 where you actually get to see the full realization of what they were trying to do with the predecessor

[@Mahler1988]

@@Dyskresiac For me "cooling on it" has mostly to do with being tired or fed up with something, not looking back and saying in retrospect "nah, they could have done a better job" while it's clear that creating something new is the greatest effort there is. Refining is easier. Let's put it this way: in the history of boardgames, do you think historians will take Gloomhaven or JotL or even Frosthaven as a landmark?

[@Dyskresiac]

@@Mahler1988 You can define "cooling" however you want but if you use your own definition, expect that dissonance with other people using it. Cooling means it was once hot and easily in my Top 5, and nowadays I couldn't even bring myself to recommend it to anyone. It's still probably too 50 but it dropped immensely as the campaign went on. Start with JotL into Frosthaven. Skip Vanilla entirely I don't think what historians will say has any relevance in my reverence of a board game. Historians will cite Risk and Catan before Gloomhaven but I loathe both. They're not good. They're boring.

[@walt776]

I play miniature games that give me all the satisfaction of Gloomhaven with far less complexity and components. True, you do have to provide your own miniatures, but that is easy enough for fantasy games. That is why I think gloomhaven worked far better as a computer game than a board game, where a lot of the micromanagement was done by the pc.

[@mccallosone4903]

agree 100 percent. im glad i played it on steam before i dug in my box, so i was able to sell my gloomhaven at full price. Frostgrave is superior to Frosthaven

[@dahobdahob]

I'd like to watch this, but I'm still waiting for my box....

[@GrimDarkDude]

The master explains and reviews a masterpiece

[@LeeKenshin7]

I've played through most of GH and JoTL tabletop and it just became tedious with all the setup, upkeeping, rules, and tear down. Not to mention trying to meet regularly as a group. Eventually, I just solo GH 3-handed. Definitely gonna wait for FH to go on sale on Steam in a few years (I think I got GH digital for free). Will save me a lot of time and money in the backend. What percentage of gamers actually finished GH before the full digital version came out? I venture to guess that the number would be even less before FH digital is released.

[@Rex1987]

that is if there will be a digtal version of Frosthaven. Currently there isnt any confrimed news about this.

[@LeeKenshin7]

@@Rex1987 And I'd be fine if there isn't since I've already had the GH experience. Plenty of campaign dungeon crawlers and more to come. Though, I doubt Celophair would not do it especially since it can be built off GH digital. I wonder if they are just waiting to work on it until after retail copies are released. Let's see how well this comment ages in 2-3 years.

[@iamspamus8784]

I like Gloomhaven on Tabletop Simulator (TTS) via Steam best.

[@haukionkannel]

@@Rex1987 Yeah... I really doubt that there would be FH computer game. GH computer game has not been very popular. People think that it is too difficult...

[@kriskenmonroe1]

I just call it "Wisconsin, the game"

[@stingray1666]

As a native Wisconsinite, I feel this. 🥶

[@GGdeTOURS37]

I understood nothing LOL! May not be for us! We only play simple short games like Eclipse, Beyond the sun, Star Wars Rebellion or terraforming Mars. Nothing longer! Next one!

[@Slyfox1775]

Tear down and set up is nothing new here . We knew all this from the original.

[@thomascocks9136]

Jaws of the lion was quicker. They could have adopted something like that

[@alcovitch]

THey could have fixed it but instead decided to rip everyone off with a 10$ app.

[@Sgrand80]

@@alcovitch There is nothing to fix and the app is great.

[@Johnsemgawl]

The insert is a must. Best accessory I ever bought for a game (the Broken token one for GH)

[@justinsmith332]

Knowing this from the original doesn't make it a good thing.

[@frk0788]

Jaws of the lion: sweet spot

[@searose6192]

Happy to wait for Frosthaven digital

[@koalabrownie]

Why play a digital boardgame RPG instead of just playing a videogame RPG like Baldurs Gate 3? Or are the card mechanics that appealing?

[@searose6192]

@KoalaBrownie I enjoy video games, but I haven't tried Baldur gate. I am somewhat picky about my video games though. They have to look incredible and be very open world (Oblivion/Skyrim etc) or be storytelling games for me to like them (though I like some indie artistic games). I don't like MMOs or turn based combat usually at all. I just recently tried Gloomhaven digital because I have had Jaws of the lion for 3 years and never had time/space to learn it and play it, so I used the digital as a way to finally get to play my game. I assume it will be the same with frosthaven (I will not have an hour for set up and tear down till my kids are grown) so, I guess it's a sad replacement for boardgaming time, not really a "video game" time in my mind. 😉

[@koalabrownie]

@@searose6192 Oh okay. Yeah I prefer Skryim type games as well but there are a lot of isometric, single player party RPGs that people enjoy. Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Wasteland. Pathfinder, etcetera. But if you picked up GH digital to feel like you enjoyed the tabletop game you own, that makes sense.

[@searose6192]

@KoalaBrownie Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check those out 👍 Maybe by the time we get to Swamphaven I'll be able to play it😀

[@xCriticalStrikex]

I mean I absolutely hated gloomhaven because it was so stupidly hard, not because the monsters were hard but because you'd just deck yourself out and lose. That isn't fun. I'll never understand the hype for it. Really wanted to give jaws of the lion a bash to hopefully get into it and lose that buyers remorse but I was so put off. You've said this is still insanely hard and thats all I needed to hear, I'll hate it.

[@IamSalva]

Jaws is just the same thing. First Missions ok, then the "harder" missions start, and your Deck starts to be the worst monster to fight...

[@septimustavi9352]

Gloomhaven is focused primarily on the tactical combat...is an attack 6 but lose the card worth doing on an enemy that has 4 health? If its an archer, almost definitely yes (they always attack), if its an ooze then maybe not since they have 3 (maybe 4) out of 8 cards that are not attacks. Literally everything is situational. Gloomhaven also gets easier as your characters gain xp, gold and perks (especially the bonus perks from having retired characters) since the enemies level slower than your party and they dont scale based on how much gold you have spent on items and enhancements. Jaws of the Lion gets harder towards the end because you dont have as many options to spend gold on (enhancements are not a thing and there are fewer different equipment cards).

[@michaelaxton5005]

Cheating at Frosthaven so you don't have to. 🙂

[@manofaction1807]

This stinks of Shadows of Brimstone.... Color me interested.

[@briansavage9981]

We home ruled that if all the monsters are dead at the end of the scenario we get the gold on the ground.

[@ilqrd.6608]

A masterpiece. 9/10. Hu.

[@robando2922]

I asked my friend if there was a lite version of these games and he said "yeah, D&D" lol seriously though cool game but a little to much for me.

[@jonathangoodman9840]

A good starting point is Gloomhaven Jaws of the Lion. It is a smaller box that teaches the game over the first few missions. Only 4 starting characters which means you don't worry about retiring either.

[@elayeth]

Tom uses cm… 👍🏻😊

[@foonshanks5655]

The card combat system in these games just isn't for me.

[@tattooguy413]

Hate to say it… but this game is a haaaaard pass for me. Gloomhaven taught me, unfortunately, that prioritizing a career makes for not enough time to play something like this If they “Jaws Of The Lion” Frosthaven… I’ll check it out. Otherwise, nope Great review though Tom!

[@Sinreal]

You hate to say it? Really?

[@tattooguy413]

@@Sinreal yes…. Because I’d love to be able to enjoy this game and it’s mechanics, but simply don’t have the time to due to a career But thanks for your rich comment :)

[@joseroman3791]

My honest opinion is that this game series is just too tedious.

[@henrikwakman7776]

It's too much, with not enough sense of reward. It's work, not play, for me.

[@CptRoboto]

The cynic in me is like, “just buy a table top rpg.” Set up is 30 . . . Seconds.

[@duduoson5278]

Ahh Gloomhaven. A mediocre video game in board game form.

[@anab0lic]

hmm not really. I play a lot of these turn based tactical video games (Tactics ogre,Triangle strategy, FF tactics etc) and in terms of pure gameplay mechanics, Gloomhaven is up there with the best of them and separates its self from the rest with the card play mechanics. Stuff like graphics, storytelling, music etc isn't on the same level, but those are really the icing on the cake for me, gameplay is always king.

[@duduoson5278]

@@anab0lic Ah, a fellow srpg afficionado! I get where you're coming from, yet I disagree. I just find Gloom boring, despite my initial enthusiasm towards it. To each his own I say. To everyone who loves Gloom and Frosthaven - play the shit out of them and enjoy :P

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Not 1.1, 1.5, we at least give it that! 😁 If you like one or dislike one it will be the same for the other. I know I got no interest in it after disliking the original but I really just don't want to see #1 and #2 on BGG dominated by Haven games. 😒 If you are one of the fans though, you better have checked out Paul Grogans comprehensive tutorial video to learn to how to play the game.

[@ilqrd.6608]

Why? How is that ruining your enjoyment of anything if BGGs ranking (which has huge issues) is dominated by Haven games?

[@brianblessednn]

@@ilqrd.6608 And don't forget, someone with no interest in the game already knows whether you'll like it or not.

[@dean7713]

If they're that good, why not have them at #1 and #2? The enjoyment of the masses speaks volumes. Time will tell, if they're not your thing, oh well, play something else while we all grin psychoticly while exploring the tundra. 🥶🥶

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

@@dean7713 Then choose one of them otherwise we have the same Brass/Through the Ages /TI etc issue again