FTC investigating "surveillance pricing"

The Federal Trade Commission is investigating "surveillance pricing," which could allow companies to view people's personal data to sell them products at a different price than what other consumers may see. Ashley Gold, a tech and policy reporter for Axios, joins CBS News with more on the probe.
#news #shopping #money
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[@tomperkins6389]

There should be no trafficking in personal information. Period. It's wrong on so many levels.

[@stchaltin]

Name and shame. Permanently boycott anyone using this pricing system because it’s absolutely insane.

[@xx133]

Not possible, if it were we wouldn’t have the world we have now (ie: pollution and carbon emissions). Individual consumption habits aren’t going to change capitalism. If all grocery stores do this, for example how can one survive in society? Also, then news clip states that individuals will not know when it happens. we need to organize, employees need to unionize, this is the only way.

[@frequentlycynical642]

Hard to do when you can't know it's happening..

[@stchaltin]

This opens up infinite lawsuits regarding chargebacks for higher prices that were charged due to illegal surveillance being used to price gouge at the individual-level. Imagine having to call your bank every single time you were charged $0.30 more for a tomato or $0.15 more per gallon of gasoline due to someone creating a digital profile of you. This is credit monitoring to a Chinese Communist Party social score level of dystopia and completely incompatible with capitalism.

[@2rx_bni]

Hear hear! We can find out once the investigation is complete and FOIA anything that gets covered up.

[@frequentlycynical642]

@@2rx_bni What investigation? By who? Dream on.

[@DunnsDayDash]

Airlines have been doing this for years with their ticket prices.

[@MsGenXodus]

Landlords, too. Rent prices change on the daily. If you applied for an apartment at one price, but the agent comes back with a higher price on the lease than advertised, that just means they think you can afford it. You've probably already got a non-refundable screen fee and security deposit on the place, so you're out some $$ regardless which decision you make on the rate changes. You can try negotiating, but that only works with smaller apartment complexes/ landlords. The big companies don't care if their units sit vacant.

[@xx133]

@@MsGenXodusyeah, let’s push back on these things also. Reverse this wealth and pow… concentration. We need to organize a grassroots movement, unionize, etc. of course capital will prevent that with every fiber.

[@cmdrls212]

no this is much, much worse. Say your bank sells your data and airlines notice you have 4000 dollars saved. well guess what, your ticket will be 4000 dollars while a person with only 200 bucks in savings will get a 200 dollar ticket. corporations will maximize draining your accounts if you have accounts to drain.

[@Paul_Wetor]

It's like having those electronic shelf tags change the price depending on who's looking at them.

[@MireilleLaverty]

If companies insist on surveillance pricing, then they should submit to “surveillance taxation” instead of the “sweet deal” they currently get from governments. ☹️

[@KittySnicker]

“We don’t develop surveillance software.” I bet the keyword is DEVELOP. They don’t develop it but they DO use it.

[@progshark]

Much like I don't develop the car I drive ro work.

[@john_nip_nop]

Yes - we are just the middle level supplier. The developers work from their homes (in Mom's basement) as independent contractors.

[@PavlovsDog-yf1wu]

We need legislation to eliminate this. The need to own a fundamental piece of hardware should never provide the right of others to take advantage of anyone.

[@artosbear]

We are way beyond fixing it with laws, because our government is part of this problem.

[@Zero.0ne.]

Rich going after the rich. Seems harmless in context of all the world's problems. Also a reminder that it doesn't matter how much money you have, nobody is safe from everything. We're all in it together.

[@mike_w-tw6jd]

The supreme court recently limited the powers of federal agencies. Also legislators get money for passing business friendly laws. We need strong leaders who can say NO to big donors.

[@Magicbean2727]

​@@artosbearHow would you fix it?

[@xx133]

@@artosbearno, it’s not. Our economic system is the problem. Government is just a machine. It’s a matter of who is controls that machine. If it’s capital owners, then yes, these outcomes are predictable. If it’s the people, then it’s a democracy.

[@tommyudo3195]

But Big Business is our friend and never lies about anything.

[@John_Fugazzi]

this began with dynamic pricing. a certain item in the past used to sell for a certain price for a long while. Now online you can see a different price on different days or even on the same day. Once you are used to that it's a small step to discriminatory pricing, a change in price based on data about you, not on supply and demand or other neutral factors.

[@koicaine1230]

This doesn't surprise me at all. My husband and I can sit side by side, open up our Google browsers and each see completely different "news" articles etc. This has been happening for years and we will do "price searches" on things and wait for the algorithms to think we aren't going to buy and offer us "reduced prices" for those items. We aren't falling for their games.

[@tomtom1541]

That's because Google has personalized adverts. Need to use an adblocker or turn off cookies, and log out from Google.

[@bobblacka918]

Imagine you enter an appliance store and ask the price of a refrigerator and the salesman says he has to open your file first. Then he looks at your purchase history and job title and gives you a price based on how much he thinks you can afford to pay. Essentially, that is what the software is doing.

[@newagain9964]

Not only just purchase history and job title…they’ll look at several to several dozen metrics to establish price for a person.👎

[@yavannapr]

Doctors offices already do this at the time to recommend treatments. 😥

[@morrismonet3554]

Building contractors do this as a matter of course. One price for one side of town, another for the other side of town. Look wealthy and you will pay more.

[@Schnellanie]

I noticed this with flights and hotels a couple of years ago. If I don't book immediately, the price will go higher the next time!

[@mr2_mike]

Incognito mode helps sometimes.

[@matiasj4327]

this is so dystopian

[@ropro9817]

They should investigate airline pricing!

[@dianahill5116]

A form of stalking -- as to what people purchase -- when and how often -- Etc.

[@justadudeintheworldman.120]

Your credit card statement reveals all that

[@CheekyBird790]

Shop like its 1969, in PERSON!

[@Levish01]

Any place that doesn’t have fixed prices like car dealerships are not any better

[@progshark]

Only works if the in-person option has the item you are looking for.

[@progshark]

Only works if the in-person option has the item you are looking for.

[@jeaniesmith5261]

I noticed what I search for and don't buy it goes up in price later. I see when I buy products a lot of the same brand the price has gone up! I will pass on that higher price until it comes down and sometimes I do feel that works! Who know. I do know everything we do is tracked at some point! I was always to as a kid you do not have to buy if you don't like the price and if enough people practice that things might change!

[@moreanimals6889]

It is common for businesses to not post prices and charge different clients different rates and say what the prices are verbally. This is actually illegal. What the FTC is investigating, has a similar effect. It restricts completion and makes pricing more expensive for everyone, even pricing out some.

[@willowstrance]

Why is this even surprising to anyone? This stuff has been going on for some time. It's not going away till the people stop acting like lemmings and stand up against the corporate welfare state.

[@BlaqkstarFPV]

This should be illegal

[@TedChickenNugget]

Yea, THEY don’t develop the software…somebody else does

[@Wongseifu548]

We already see that with airlines dynamic pricing model

[@desiv1170]

I remember having some car problems a long time ago and I pulled in to a place to get it checked. I was out of work at the time, but just coming back from a job interview, so I was all dressed up... The quote was crazy high. No way I could afford it... Went home complaining because I couldn't afford it. My dad took the same car down to the same shop the next day and asked them, and the price was much lower... He suggested they saw someone dressed up in fancy clothes and decided to give me the high price as I could probably afford it... This is just the high tech version of that...

[@Sashazur]

The funny part is I remember reading an article about a studt where they had people go into car dealers to negotiate prices and found the exact opposite - the better dressed people got better prices. This was decades ago but it wouldn’t surprise me if that still happened, since they could figure the wealthier person is less of a credit risk

[@desiv1170]

@@Sashazur Yeah, for buying cars, that makes sense too ..

[@rangledangle3371]

Doesn’t McKinsey & Co just come into companies and tell management to lay everyone off? What would they know about this?

[@aryaastark9201]

I'm sure they suggest companies do this. They are a consulting company, so if they are hired to increase revenue, this would be one way to do it.

[@josephs3973]

- Is there anything you do so people with different ability to pay, pay different prices? - We do not develop software that recommends pricing targeted to specific individuals. Their avoidance of the question can be sliced so many ways.

[@Goldmageman]

Clever PR statement saying they don’t have different prices for “specific individuals” and not “we don’t recommend different prices.” Which means they probably are recommending prices based on groups of customers. You may not have a specific price for you as an individual but a price for you based on the group that you fall into.

[@aryaastark9201]

Exactly.

[@ThinRedLine_Matt]

Find a person that would fall into another group they would categorize and do a direct comparison. Should be relatively easy to prove.

[@trinasyoutube]

This is infuriating to say the least!

[@HanaRoad2]

Yes, I suspect that Amazon does this. That’s why I use separate search engines so that I can find the best price. Otherwise I notice that I suspect that Amazon notices that I regularly buy certain products and so they inflate the prices of those items knowing that I use that product regularly and assuming I won’t double check the prices. I have no proof, just experience of what I have think I have notices. I can’t directly accuse them because I don’t want to be sued for defamation.

[@grammygirlforgod9326]

OMG I was out of state with my mother in hospice. I had used my brother’s phone to look up rental car prices to book a car for my daughter who was flying in. When I used my phone to book the car, it gave me a wildly different price. Like I literally had my brother’s phone in one hand and mine in the other, on the same website. Weirdest thing ever.

[@Desaved]

They need to investigate Amazon!

[@awifeinterrupted]

Brick and mortar stores are looking pretty good right now

[@BillLaBrie]

Too late.

[@SquizzMe]

Turn personal data into a free market. If companies want our data so badly, they'll pay for it.

[@Pou1gie1]

@1:30 You probably could find out that you were being overcharged by using a friend's computer or info/data (w/ their knowledge) to shop and see if the price is different. Maybe even use a neutral computer at a library or other space to see if the price is different. Changing your device is usually how you can get around this. This is one of the reasons why having all your payment methods and info on devices is a bad idea.

[@ISayNukem]

Unacceptable.

[@briantaylor9958]

Companies also will make employment offers based on this info. They check people's credit and either do not extend employment offers or lowball salaries based on credit checks.

[@tech-bore8839]

This has been going on for at least a decade, if not longer. Not sure WHY the FTC is doing something this late into the game.

[@aryaastark9201]

Better late than never.

[@SlavTiger]

because of greased palms

[@john_nip_nop]

They are not doing something - they are investigating. Most consumer law violations (even when obvious) are never enforced. Not charged criminally, not sued in civil court. But they log many hours investigating.

[@sowlarraleigh7511]

Personally seen amazon doing this.

[@Sondan1988]

The police literally by your data to track you.....why is this surprising to anyone ?

[@handlaidtracksand3dprinted922]

Wow! Google etc really IS Evil!!! Cash is king and doesn't leave any cookie crumbs.

[@ThraxMan84]

Hotels/Motels engage in dynamic pricing as well.

[@progshark]

The future sucks!

[@puchi1388]

That is insane!!! Flip phone here I come 😂

[@shad0wCh8ser]

"surveillance pricing" = discrimination I clear my cache then check the same thing on private mode just too see if prices change. But one thing that I have noticed is if you see something and don't buy but you keep looking at it, sometime the price goes up a few cents to entice you to buy like get this before price really goes up. I still don't but and check back in a week and the price fall down. I think they get ppl on the FOMO behavior. Amazon is the worse, they will shoot you sales and as soom as you buy it the price goes back up after 1 buy so you can neve go back to get a "sale" item. I'm on to all the tricks.

[@johnrountree370]

Stop ordering everything online. Go into a local store and support your neighbors who are in business. Communities rely on sales tax revenue to offset operational costs. Buying online insures that you will no longer have local merchants to sell anything and your community will have to raise taxes to deliver the services you expect. How did America become so stupid?

[@jacobsoby3910]

The target app actually gives you lower prices if you're near the store but not in it... This is a well documented " feature "

[@Komainu959]

Clearing your cookies really won't help because you're logging into these sites to make purchases.

[@hrysivjt67]

It’s been this way for like a decade in the aviation sector… shouldn’t be surprised by a company acting terribly and the government doing nothing. America is for the corporation, by the corporation.

[@levmoses742]

One way to see this happening is the browser you generally use will have higher prices then a browser you use rarely. I’ve seen this with products and flights.

[@markkostka6897]

Ashley is not going to say anything of value here after the opening statement. This interview with her was a waste of time. They could say this, they could say that, they may do this, they don't have to do much legally and she seems clueless about it all.

[@CatWhiskering]

They also do a lousy, mealy-mouthed job of defining "surveillance pricing" and its implications for consumers. It's basically black-market pricing, which uses data about your income, search history, credit history, and spending habits to customize the price of something to be the absolute maximum you're willing to pay. For example, if they detect the shopper is a 30-year-old woman who buys designer stuff she can't really afford on credit, because she's very brand-conscious and wants to appear richer than she actually is, the price of the D&G sunglasses she's been looking at for a couple of days might go from $500 to $600, because the AI figured out that she likes them and is willing to put stuff on her card that she can't really afford. They use your data plus algorithms to determine how desperate you are to have something, then charge accordingly. The key to beating them is not to play their game. Shop at discount, low-tech grocery stores like Aldi, WinCo, or Grocery Outlet that will never have electronic price tags. Buy cars used from private owners in your neighborhood, not dealerships. Don't buy designer crap. There's beautiful jewelry at estate jewelry stores. Costco also has jewelry, and big-ticket electronics like TVs and computers.

[@c2thamax246]

How about car manufacturers selling the data from your car’s computer (driving and maintenance habits) to insurance cos. for exactly this reason?

[@test-193]

Years ago I suspected Southwest Airlines of doing this. I would search a flight, get the date, time, flight number and price information. Then close the web browser. The next day when I did the same search, the price had jumped up by $40. On a hunch, I deleted all cookies and internet cache, then I repeated the search and surprise!!! The price went back down. It was a sneaky, underhanded increase in price based on previous searches in my cookies! Isn’t that a form of wire fraud???

[@tzgaming207]

Congress needs to pass an act to ban all forms of consumer surveillance. Corporations literally have _zero need_ to be collecting this information except as a revenue vector. No more ad tracking, web pages monitoring your actions, smart speakers & phones listening in to your conversations, etc. No more bundling opt-in to trasking in an EULA. Your product or a feature of can't be dependant on acceptance of tracking. You can _ask_ if someone wants to take part in your program, but it needs to be blunt & clear, not buried & disguised in sales-speak. No selling or sharing of collected data with anyone. Commerce & trade worked just fine for millennia without tracking, I think the corporations will be just fine.

[@sarscov9854]

Damn. no wonder i get things cheaper than my friends. I'm an enormous cheapskate. If the prices go up they know I stop buying.

[@Sashazur]

If you use your web browser in private mode it won’t keep cookies, so it’s one way to help avoid this happening online. But some sites may actually punish you for doing that with higher prices; this variable pricing stuff is definitely a double edged sword.

[@philoctetes_wordsworth]

How could you possibly know?

[@im.empimp]

Multiple consumers buy the same product on the same day at the some time but are given different prices.

[@ano070602]

Companies do this by tracking your history on your devices. Opt out of everything you can

[@69dblcab]

I absolutely have seem this at the big Smiley online store.

[@A3Kr0n]

Extracting the maximum amount of money from a person is an American right and a way of life!

[@karenbaird7402]

It is easy to tell my neighbors got a better price I want their price People do talk

[@victoriamahon3765]

Amazon and airlines do this EVERYTIME!!!

[@2rx_bni]

We literally live in hell. This is AWFUL.

[@ThinRedLine_Matt]

Find another consumer with different income level, finance situation, etc... compare prices shown to you for same items. Proof should be relatively easy for this case.

[@effervescent_smegma-s1w]

UBER & LYFT do this. It's why prices are different for me & my friends when we order to go to the same place from the bar.

[@yavannapr]

Federal Gov. should already make a move on restricting all this data collecting and selling we are been targeted with.

[@SeerSeekingTruth]

But science and technology are the best thing to ever happen to mankind so I don’t understand how anyone can be mad at this. Welcome to everyone’s future.

[@northernhills863]

If this tech process were only ever used to offer discounts and bargains to entice shoppers who are likely to be interested in particular items, this could be viewed as consumer-friendly. The problem, of course, is if the process doesn't just work down from a unit 'set price', but might also work UP, which would be insidious.

[@residentevil4life]

Ticketmaster, airlines, and Uber are absolutely guilty of this. Ticketmaster especially is the absolute worst since they refuse to release ticket prices ahead of time and if you hesitate to buy a ticket for under a second chances are someone else will take it from you for big ticket concerts the day of release.

[@danleignone8247]

The airlines are already doing this. Your first itinerary search (say Southwest Airlines) will yield a price, and by the time you’ve done subsequent searching and go back to Southwest the price will be higher.

[@ojmardueno]

Demand pricing or dynamic pricing as well as surveillance pricing should be banned…

[@creepycassette]

Who predicts the fines (if proven guilty) will be less than the profits gained from this practice?

[@ybemad]

So we're going to have digital redlining now!? "Innovation"

[@dmitriyapak]

Uber is already doing that with no accountability

[@hans6304]

Protect yourself, always double check prices using several web browsers on incognito mode on different sites. Use thes results as your line of defense.

[@lawerancelanham]

The people who sell Kirby vacuums do this exact thing...and they even told me. They were going to "cut me a deal" and said the people a couple streets over paid twice what they asked from me. I didn't bite cause they were too damn shady..

[@ebinrock]

If companies are going to have variable pricing for products (probably in the name of "equity"), then there ought to be a mechanism online (or in person) for the customer yo negotiate price. As Robin Williams' Popeye said in the movie, "I pays ya what I feels like payin' ya!"

[@jakubadamowicz]

Wendy’s does a version of this too, they have different prices in different locations and change few times per day.

[@Kelly-yx9tn]

I will put things in my cart on Amazon. When I go to the store I look at the prices and wherever it is cheaper , I will buy.

[@ChiCityLady]

I assumed Amazon always did this, especially since they know your shopping history.

[@Ittakesonelifetolearnhowtolive]

Airlines have done this for years.

[@ben_r_]

Use web browsers that offer privacy protection, and ad blockers to minimize tracking!

[@choccolocco]

They also need to investigate what I think is supply and demand manipulation. Products are held back for a while, the. They flood the market with extreme price increases. It’s not inflation, it’s totally different. Also, do something about the obvious price gouging they claim is “inflation”.

[@Jay_A5]

Don’t they already use location data to change price. If your in different areas or countries u get different prices

[@davidlawson4281]

From Axios! Not interested

[@BicycleFunk]

Interesting.

[@vermiform]

This is so scummy and i won't be surprised when it isn't made illegal

[@ropro9817]

I'll bet that ride sharing companies like Uber are doing this too!

[@Sashazur]

They already adjust prices depending on demand etc but they are up front about that.

[@RefreshingShamrock]

​@@SashazurAs a driver, no they are not. There is zero transparency about demand. Uber can claim "things are heating up" but when I go online I won't get any calls. Uber says "You could earn more 🤑" but when I work when they suggest I don't make much more. Uber charges wildly different prices even if the trips are of similar travel times and distances, and they don't tell us how they calculate those prices.

[@coreymay918]

Mastercard has some nerve

[@skybluskyblueify]

The "specific individuals" wording is deceptive. They group various people as those that can afford higher prices. They then raise their prices for groups of people. That is lawyer-speak so they won't get in trouble is the government or people that watch this show etc..

[@vegasroller7026]

Maybe prime should make comparing pricing online normal we can bypass the company by simply sharing our experience with each other.

[@BillLaBrie]

They were doing this 10-15 years ago to some extent. iPhone users paid more.

[@brightpage1020]

Consumers give these companies permission to do this when they agree to use the site while allowing all the “cookies” the service includes to run the company’s algorithms. Consumers have widely agreed to this. Whether they realize it or not because most skip the fine print or don’t take time to understand the legalese.

[@odesangel]

AEI: Artificial Equity Intelligence

[@tickytacky8078]

Welcome to racehorse level price gouging and inflation. And people said we were being reactionary about AI.

[@DeenaMilkers]

of course mckinsey is involved

[@ExtremeForever]

Oh and guess who's benefiting or getting their CUT. The FTC will be slapping them with fines and all the money goes to them. Great opportunity to gain something from finding out about somebody's wrongdoing.

[@ExtremeForever]

@AtomicGirlNYC Idk if you're trolling, but I'm not. On a serious level. I've been tracking some of these fines that's happen throughout the years and even in the past, but because a lot of them don't make it to big news or headline news it's often overlooked. I'm talking about some big corporations here. Google, Microsoft, Amazon, 3M, Ecolab, Facebook..... just to name a few. Most of them are just code violations involving workers right, business practice, or wrong doing to others, but most of the fine just go to the government agency who issued the fines or lawsuit and it ends there. No information on how the money is spent or where it really went or what the agency will do with the money. Unless it's a fraud that involves victims losing money that's the only time people or victim get conpensated. I'm surprised there is no documentary or anybody investigatiing this.

[@BrianCinBengals]

Amazon. ‘Nuff said.

[@SlavTiger]

what do you wanna bet a lot of data is scrubbed before the check

[@Todd-r8b]

The pot is calling the kettle black 😂

[@kikijewell2967]

Wasn't privacy guaranteed in the American constitution?

[@CatWhiskering]

Unfortunately only against the government, not private corporations. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against _unreasonable searches_ and seizures, shall not be violated..."

[@robertstan2349]

rich ppl don't like the idea of them being charged more simply because of their income 🤣