FULL FRONTAL'S On A Reflex Paraglider - What Is It Really Like?

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Full frontal?
No problem!
50% collapse?
Who cares!
Modern paramotor and paraglider wings are far safer and more stable than previously believed! I recently put them to the test and pushed the wings beyond their breaking point to learn for myself what they are really like in turbulence.
I've flown them mid-day in Death Valley.
I've flown them through rain storms.
I've ridden +/- 800 feet per minute thermals and sink... at 2:00 pm in the desert.
I've crossed 10,500 foot mountain ranges... at noon.
And in the end, the wing just keeps on flying.
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[@roberteshelman5917]

Been flying for 5 years and I have never experienced a collapse. My wings have been a Dudek Universal 1.1, a Velocity Core, and an Ozone Spyder 3. It has taken me a while to understand glider characteristics. I appreciate your expert insight on this. It's reassuring.

[@bitcoinbeast]

I was about to ask about the Uni 1.1 in this scenario

[@dnorthup65]

Great to hear your unbridled thoughts from your experience on these reflex wings.

[@nedmacallen]

Super big if you to say they are not as dangerous as you where lead to believe. Super awesome to share your experience super stoked for you and Judson to be doing that adventure! Fly on,safe travels

[@jeff28092]

I think it is awesome that you were man enough to experience different wings on your own and not just listen to your dad

[@TrevorSteele1]

Uncle* and thank you!

[@anthonyferraro]

Trevor first off thank you for this video! I'm a big fan of yours! I think you're one of the few people who has spent a bunch of time around both schools. By schools I mean Aviator training and Super training. The two schools share the passion of flight but have VERY VERY different opinions on training and gear. When you do a google or youtube search for paramotor training the top 3 results are Super, Aviator, and Captain training. I am not saying these are the best schools just the most popular on the interwebs. All 3 owners Dell, Eric and Kurt have been in the sport for many many years. Years in business/experience was a key item on my list when I chose training for myself. When I was choosing my school I couldn't find anybody like you who had first hand experience with more than one of the schools. Its no secret that you used to work with Super and now fly a product from the competition. The community would love a comparison of a dominator (the safest glider in existence and gods gift to the universe) VS a Spyder 3 ( A reflex hoax deathtrap). I am sure there are pros and cons of both wings but I would love to hear it first hand from a guy who has hundreds of hours on each. Hopefully the comparison could remain as unbias as possible.

[@J10on4ds]

Thanks for feeling this out for us Trevor, lol! "Bags" on the swingarms sounds kinda interesting, I guess we'll see more about those later?

[@TrevorSteele1]

Look up Scout Adventure Bags. They are side mounted bags desnged to carry cargo and gear for long cross country flights. I had them on there for the first time and was not used to them. After the first few flights I got used to them and did not have any issues "pulling" the brakes. Just had to adjust my arm motion to be slightly outward as well as downward.

[@577buttfan]

So no back flip 180 slam face first into the ground dead? lol

[@TrevorSteele1]

No backflipy spinny face planty thingy!

[@YTjndallas]

I’m not a paramotor pilot, but it seems crazy to induce collapses under 100’ of altitude.

[@TrevorSteele1]

Wasn't intentional lol

[@alfadanhighperformanceoutb8416]

Were you in full reflex mode when you took the frontal?

[@stephenkeen6044]

Oh wow! Quite an experience! Thank you for posting this. I assume having the bags means you were quite highly loaded on the wing also? Very glad you were able to recover without further incident, the worst results I've seen with low level collapses is when they didn't prevent the wing surge after, causing a dive (and subsequent swing into the ground).

[@captdanford3841]

awesome video mate.. very clear and answered a question, a lot of pilots would like to ask.. we are told by certain individuals..YOU TAKE A COLLAPSE ON A REFLEX..BOOM.INSTANT DEATH. lol. great videos mate

[@TrevorSteele1]

Just trying to show the truth about things ;)

[@michaelkennedy2528]

Someone is thowing a Super Fit right now lol

[@TrevorSteele1]

Super duper tantrum lol

[@michaelkennedy2528]

@@TrevorSteele1 I get so tired of seeing his sling that nub around when he says " It will do a 180 and death spiral you face fisrt into the ground!!"" Good for you for speaking up, all wings have dangerous characteristics, even the Dominator, but the most dangerous character of ANY wing, is the character pulling the toggles. Wings are gonna be wings, aviation is defying gravity, it all has consequences if you don't respect it. Good video and enjoy knowing he is probably like a fish outta water flopping around in a tantrum.

[@marklabelle7371]

Damn, how did I just see this? F-in you tube. Thanks Trevor! I feel better now…

[@jasoncosner733]

🍻thanks for sharing this information!🙂 doing great keep up the good work man 👍🏻

[@bitcoinbeast]

Thanks for the insight. The Viper is an advanced wing. Id like to hear your thoughts on whether you could get a Uni 1.1 or Nucleon 4 to collapse in a similar situation?

[@DesertLover71]

Would love to know the wind conditions that caused your collapse. Wind speed etc. thanks.

[@bstang93]

The ending was the equivalent to a mic drop on your uncle haha. Very well explained! I wish you could have gone through thee same conditions with a Dominator wing to see how that would have handled it. It would be interested to see how they both perform to see the safety of the wings.

[@TrevorSteele1]

My uncle! And a dominator would have not been safe in those conditions. It would have handled it worse.

[@bstang93]

@@TrevorSteele1 I made the correction in my comment. Very interesting! I'm still learning about all the different equipment in PPG.

[@yfz450manny]

Nice video but you left out some details. What was ur trimmer / speed bar configuration at the time of the collapse? What did u do exactly to cause the wing to collapse again? Etc.. Follow up pls. Thanks.

[@TrevorSteele1]

Trims were at the first red line

[@pintail120]

its not ozone's hottest wing, there are many more EN C and EN D wings eg. two liners that they sell that will make the viper look like a beginners wing.

[@TrevorSteele1]

This is true, however, this is ozone’s hottest paramotor wing

[@pintail120]

@@TrevorSteele1 That is accurate

[@NUMB3RL3SS]

Thanks for the info, Trevor.

[@flyguyjesse]

Love your videos bro, good job!

[@jerrydelyea5820]

Hi Trevor. Jerry from up in Canada in the rocky mountains. I have been paragliding for near 30 years, I'm 60 years old. I have been paramotoring for over 10 years. I am currently flying Dudek's race machine the BOSON for flying tandem or trikes and of course it is a reflex glider. I have flown this wing in very rough air trimmed in and trimmed out on my trike. May I ask were you trimmed in when you took the collapses? When Dell talks about doing a backflip 180 is that trimmed out or in? Flying in rough air trimmed out my wing seems rock solid, same trimmed in. One point that always comes to mind with ppg pilots, they learn to fly and from the first day are told to fly in smooth air, my point is this. So many things about flying a paraglider for me were learned in my free fly days long before flying ppg. I think the majority of pilots are maybe completely unaware of how to active pilot and from there stems as you can imagine many problems. You are an active pilot, I see this by how you fly and react, you understand. Would be a great topic if you care to do a vid on it, cheers brother, thanks for another informative video. Jerry. Go sub to my channel if you like. (:

[@advpilot2833]

I agree this would be great content for a video. I am one of those pilots that was always told to fly in smooth air. If you hit rough air you need to active pilot. I can’t really tell you what this means. I have a good idea but “how” do I do this? I thought of buying a ground handling wing to help with this but have been told that really won’t teach me much. I fly larger trike as well. Currently on a Macpara Charger 2 39 and fly at high altitudes.

[@ioanenache6686]

@@advpilot2833 ground handling is very very good to start with (it's a must actually), however the real active piloting will come when you start free flying in strong thermal conditions, that will really hone your skills aquired from ground handling

[@PPGMatt]

Great video!

[@michaelmiller6848]

Have you ever taken a complete collapse in a dominantot? If so what was the recovery like?

[@madsloper]

Sky tap angel channel did a collapse video of paramotor reflex wings three years ago. Check it out. Great recovery skills nonetheless on your part.

[@TrevorSteele1]

SImulated collapses and real world collapses are very different. I've seen his video. He also did the collapses on a Ozone Spyder 3 which is a beginner wing. I took real world collapses on an Ozone Viper 5 which is an advanced wing.

[@WillWindWonder]

As a free flight pilot, I've never looked into PPG wings. I'm surprised that 5.8 is the hottest flat aspect ratio (versus >7 in hot PG gliders). Fundamentally, do you have any idea why that is?

[@TrevorSteele1]

We care more about roll then we do glide

[@WillWindWonder]

@@TrevorSteele1 Makes sense. Thanks!

[@CarlosTeixeiraAO]

sorry, you did everything... you did active piloting

[@user-wo6zt1hf9q]

Why does the industry use the term 'reflex' when it's impossible for a cloth wing to have a true reflex profile? True reflex wings are rigid, and have an inverted pressure gradient in the aft portion of the wing at low angles of attack. This profile gives negative feedback to a dive and is a safety feature in hang gliders. There's no such thing as a 'reflex' paraglider wing. It's impossible because there's no 'pushing' force - there's only one force on the risers, and it's a downward force 100% of the time.

[@EdgeofEarthParamotor]

Would be more informative to know if an A wing would have taken the same collapse…?

[@TrevorSteele1]

An A wing would have recovered quicker and with less help/assistance from the pilot. A wings are designed to open quickly without any pilot input.

[@EdgeofEarthParamotor]

@@TrevorSteele1 I know. I meant in comparison to the reflex in identifical conditions

[@WillWindWonder]

​@@EdgeofEarthParamotor that would be pretty difficult to fairly compare. Maybe it could be done in a wind tunnel.

[@paramotortheory]

So are you saying the hoaxflex theory has flaws? :)

[@TrevorSteele1]

Just a few ;)

[@CGreciful]

so what was it like vs. a "no-reflex" wing? Still just hands up and catch the dive? I did a few frontals in SIV on a "semi-reflex" and felt exactly the same as free flight.

[@TrevorSteele1]

Felt the exact same.

[@michaelcordero1111]

Thanks for the video, I'm glad you're ok, that looked nuts!

[@hillock10]

So T, what happened to your review of the CIMA PWR?

[@TrevorSteele1]

Soon

[@markcorriher4718]

What happen between you and Del ,fans want to know?l

[@TrevorSteele1]

Learned for myself what the reality of things were and couldn't continue selling equipment and training I did not believe in.

[@alexsheckell612]

@@TrevorSteele1 I 100% appreciate your attitude about all this. And you're commitment not to tear down others for your gain... I'm sure it's tempting at times lol. That is some good character! 🫡 Keep it up, I love your videos 👍

[@TrevorSteele1]

@@alexsheckell612 thanks!

[@jackofalltrades610]

Great constraint Trevor! Loved the video!

[@MichaelJeffers75]

Is the phrase "hoax flex" itself a hoax? Sorry for the pointed nature of this question, I understand if you skip this one.

[@TrevorSteele1]

True.

[@paraglidingSafety]

what was exactly your trim/speedbar configuration?

[@TrevorSteele1]

Trims were at the first red line.

[@sudosuga]

were you trims in, or trims out. Also Speedbar?

[@TrevorSteele1]

Trims at the red line (3/4 out) and no speedbar.

[@hillock10]

The testing would have more value if you did what Andrew does trims full in and out, full reflex, and using the speed bar. Why not go up again and do a more complete test?

[@TrevorSteele1]

Simulated tests are 1/10 as valuable as real world collapses. Plus these collapses were taken trimmed out, meaning the wing would handle them even better trimmed in.

[@hillock10]

@@TrevorSteele1 C'mon Trevor, SIV tests are real world collapses. They are extremely valuable for determining collapse recovery. I wouldn't be too critical of a guy (Andrew) who risks his life for the sport. His testing and follow-up discussion are always thorough. Your testing was not thorough.

[@TrevorSteele1]

Siv collapses are always more tame then a real world collapse. A dominator collapses and recovers well in a simulated collapse but handles real world collapses worse. Siv collapses are a “good” not “great” way of determining safety. They are for sure better than nothing. But - all I’m trying to say is that there is a big difference between siv collapses and real world collapses. Also your claim of moly tests not being through is ignorant. I quite literally pushed the wing to its limits in the real world and we all got to see what happened. I pushed that wing through stuff no one else would have dared to fly in and learned what these wings really handle like. Not trying to discredit Andrew, because he did take risk to test that wing and I acknowledge and respect that.

[@hillock10]

@@TrevorSteele1 I don't know collapses are collapses regardless of SIV or unexpected. The only differences is one is caused by the pilot purposely to test recovery behavior, and "real world" when flying may be unexpected and sudden which is scary. EN ratings are a must for wings. You can't argue that recovery testing has limited value, otherwise EN ratings would have little to no value and no one would use or trust them. There is a reason why the Spyder 3 is not EN rated and is likely it could or did not pass the EN recovery testing. EN ratings act as a shield against dealers or manufaturers who may make unsupported claims about passive safety.

[@paraglidingSafety]

1. why were you flying trims out (fullreflex) under 30 ft? seems to be unnecessary risk taking 2. you cannt tell how they are after 3,4 collapses, I know a pg wing where 1 in 20 gets really shitty, the rest beeing ok

[@TrevorSteele1]

1. Wasn't moving forward trimmed down. I had no options but to trim out in order to not be pushed back over the lake behind me. I wasn't in full reflex, I was at the red line which is where reflex starts to "engage" or become effective. 2. The initial collapse speaks for itself.

[@paraglidingSafety]

@@TrevorSteele1 thanks, but then the title is misleading if you were not in the reflex mode

[@Johnny-gb7eh]

Nice dude. What trim setting did you take these at?

[@TrevorSteele1]

The FIRST RED line

[@Johnny-gb7eh]

@@TrevorSteele1 I'm not familiar with that wing ... Is that in reflex profile in that settings?

[@arch0nindustries]

@@Johnny-gb7eh the red line and up on the risers signifies reflex profile

[@ryandinan]

@@arch0nindustries On Ozone wings, I thought the red line and below, just identified the range in which it was safe to use brakes? Above the red line, tip steering only. The wing itself is always in a reflex profile, to varying extents of reflex...ness....

[@TrevorSteele1]

Yes this is correct. Red line is when the reflex profile starts to "engage?" and where Ozone suggest you do not touch brakes.

[@amberrose111]

This wasn't the "full frontals" we were hoping for... 🤣💀

[@codyking4342]

So I have an honest question….you just posted a video showing you taking multiple collapses on what appeared to be one flight. Would those collapses have happened on a dominator? Your uncle spews so much bullshit that its hard to decipher the truth. And flying these reflex wings now, what is so much better about them vs a dominator? Are they faster, is it just better for acro?

[@TrevorSteele1]

Yes the Dominator would have collapsed. The Dominator is actually more likely to collapse then reflex wings. It does recover very easily and quickly. Had I been on a Dominator during the flight where I took the collapses, I would have taken probably double the amount of collapses. It's hard to say what a Domiantor would have handled them like, but it would have most likely been less "violent" then this wing. Although this wing did handle them VERY well. To judge a collapse you want to look at 3 things. 1. Altitude loss 2. Direction change 3. Ease of recoverey The Dominator doesn't loose hardly any altitude, It doesn't change direction, and it recovers quickly and easily. This wing (Viper 5) didn't loose hardly any altitude, doesn't change direction, and recovers decently well. *side note - the recovery would have been much quicker and easier if the wing wasn't trimmed out and had I not hit the adventure bags when I went to pull brake.* So based on those 3 things, the Viper 5 actually handled the collapse very well. I've taken a few collapses on Dominators that were about as "violent" as I did on the Viper 5. And here's the thing we also need to keep in mind - The Ozone Viper 5 (wing in the video) is a high aspect ratio (5.8) wing that is for the advanced pilot. It's by NO MEANS a wing for new or even intermidiate pilots. Why I point that out is that even though it's an advanced wing, it handled the collapses very well. The Dominator is safe don't get me wrong. But the Viper 5 has proven to be safe as well. Reflex wings are not the "death trap" "hoax-flex" we've all been led to believe. ---------------- Your question about why refelx wings are better then the Dominator is tough because what reflex wing? And better in what way? Generally speaking reflex wings are more stable (less likely to collapse) and faster (cruising and top speed). Every reflex wing is different. There's dozens of different reflex wings so you can't compare the Dominator to all of them. I'll tell you this - I've helped a bunch of Dom/Flat Top pilots try modern wings and every single one of them bought the new wing. Every one of them realized withing a few minutes of flying it, that they are better in every way.