FULL RE-BUILD OF A SHOWER PAN...from start to finish

FOR PATREON MEMBERS....you're welcome....and THANK YOU for your support !

[@jw5510]

I loved every minute of this video. Just had my shower built 2 years ago and now my living room ceiling is falling apart due to water damage from the shower. After watching your vids now I realize what a crap job they did. No one wants to replace the shower pan unless I hire them to do a complete bathroom remodel. I have been trying to learn from your vids because I might have to try and do it myself. I would love to hire you to fix it but I know you're probably booked until the year 2030. Thank you for all your knowledge.

[@twtw9589]

Looks excellent. Thank you for the educational tutorial.

[@beekeepermariadelgado6806]

I will watch your videos and let them run while I do housework. They keep me company along with my cat.

[@easyclean21]

What this is telling me is never be afraid to be over sure son as good as you are youre still going over board good stuff sir!!!

[@chrissvideos8405]

Your videos have convinced me that non professional shower builders should use a shower pan, as that seems to be the biggest failure area. Great videos

[@babyjanepad2596]

Once again, thank you for showing what to do and why not to do something. Very helpful!!!!

[@dgpuig45]

That was a very complete and good job. 1,000 times better than what was there before.

[@warrencogburn2198]

I personally would have left approx two inches of board to tape joints even if I feel it won’t crack . Better safe then sorry. Great job as usual.

[@harrisclarkson6584]

Rebuilt my shower a month ago but im still enjoying the videos

[@StarrTile]

Thank you sir 👌✌

[@timthetoolman9659]

Good job and innovative to use those 16x16 on diagonal....like it was a design thing

[@StarrTile]

Yes that's the only way that I could have been done because the 12 x 24 in that style we're not available

[@damiangarcia786]

That’s was good improvising

[@kennethlemke9826]

Excellent job…I feel for you on the lower angle cuts…that’s a lot of extra labor but it accomplished what the customer wanted.

[@StarrTile]

We were trying to do the math to make them somehow intentionally off straight but it wasn't working so last minute he decided diagonal and yes, a lot more work

[@jeremi7214]

Excellent video!

[@ExtremeRecluse]

All of my tile was floated, 1500 sq ft kitchen and bathroom floors and 3 showers. The work was done in 2003 by Italians. No failures yet. I remodeled the main bathroom, from bathtub to walk in shower, cast iron Kohler. Found all of the studs were absolute garbage. But, when you float everything, wall flatness isn't needed. The general contractors must love Italians. Save so much in lumber costs.

[@patrickmclaughlin6013]

Thanks Bob, nice build.

[@bertoshovlog4923]

Wow looks nice and great

[@chicken2u]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I loved watching it and learned a lot to my own. of course, it would be great to see how you did the wall back board, wall tiles, the curves and the hexagon tile. Would you please sharing it here?

[@raymartcay3202]

Great job

[@andrewlowe9264]

Grateful for you sharing this knowledge! Good stuff thank you from Senoia, GA.

[@T.E.P..]

Outstanding video .... this can be broken up in many shorter vids and #shorts and time stamps on longer vids would be superb. Every vid you produce are packed full of info. Hope your week is starting just perfect and thank you for all of them.

[@michaeljones2210]

That will work!

[@rechie973]

Great video

[@howardbailes]

A 30 dollar boroscope could save replacing a perfectly good P trap. jUST LOGIC

[@archibruin]

Question: is the outer edge between the curb and the main bathroom floor waterproof? I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to connect the old tile floor to my new curb. Same question goes for the shower wall - how to connect the old tile to the new. Thanks, love your content!

[@HandyMumm]

I have the exact same question

[@ohokayofficial]

57:23 ?? I dk if that answers your question

[@LarryDepontes]

always pan before wall board and always shower floor tile and grout before wall tile..always always and always

[@ohokayofficial]

5:37 - not trying to make an excuse for the previous installer, but seeing that glass sheet liner… I can sort of guess that they struggled with the glass material being less thick than the wall-tile So they probably tried floating it as it was installed (crew of 2-3 people) and then started overcompensating with too much thin set - then they probably didn’t tamp in the glass because of all of their thinset squeeze up 😂 Always fun to see liners around various showers, because you can see where the thickness variation was either a problem for the installer or a visual feature

[@davidmerkrebs9967]

how do you address the seam between the new wallboard and the existing wallboard

[@damiangarcia786]

I think you should tear out the niche tile and do the same hexagon that’s on the floor it was my house. But excellent job star

[@ExtremeRecluse]

I think I will stick with my Kohler Cast Iron shower pan. Will probably last long than this shower did.

[@gregorydeemer2108]

What are your thoughts about ONLY using Red Guard where the mortar pan meets the shower pan liner in an active earthquake area? Here in Alaska, my rebuild of a shower pan is taking place on the second story of wood frame home that can jiggle, sway, and twist quite a bit, and quite regularly with the earthquakes we get here. Granted, a big earthquake is probably causing more issues than just a teeny hairline fracture in the dried red guard membrane, but I'm wondering if you would recommend also putting in some other layer of thin fabric at the joint (1:09:20 )to help keep it fully water proofed in case there is any small and repetitive movement in the floor.

[@keithjetter6349]

Great Video! I noticed you made the sakrete layer level. Are you supposed to slope the pan toward the drain at all?

[@coolceelah]

Great job! Does the marble tile need to be sealed every 3 months to keep from the color fading?

[@StarrTile]

Yes

[@zimpler8340]

EVEN IF IT LEAKS, IT WILL NEVER LEAK😂! (The membrane is backup)

[@lazargill1818]

Excellent video but missing material details and pictures for beginners , Thanks

[@toddolson573]

Is your showet curb 6" wide, just wondering also if its marble?

[@csbarbourv]

Very helpful! Did you only do one layer of ardex liquid on top of the mud bed?

[@matthewdoyle4418]

I have a rather strange question... What is the smallest shower you have worked on or built I/E 3'x3' so on and so forth?.....ps thanks for all your efforts to bring all the real true life diagnosed comensce forensic studies in bathroom related water damage and or failures

[@StarrTile]

Yes a 3x3 is probably the smallest. And thank you for the kind words👌✌

[@kerpal1147]

How much would a job like this cost? My two person rectangle shower with a bench just failed and the plywood underneath is pretty soaked so trying to get an idea of a ballbark of the cost of this job, because I don't think I'll have the time to get all this done myself.

[@StarrTile]

There is never an across the board price because every contractor pricing is different and geographically speaking people make money on the coasts a lot more than other places.... If I'm not mistaken I charged about $4,500 for that job, but then that's a much larger shower than normal too, my average cost for a shower pan redo is about $3,500

[@politerabbit3100]

@@StarrTile well worth it! Excellent!

[@Clearview68]

I could identify the failure at the very beginning before any demo was even done, the curb. It was individual tiles instead of solid surface and, it was also drilled into. And that's where the leak was. All that was needed to replace the top of the curb with a new solid cap. Tearing out the whole floor, liner, bench, bottom rows of wall tile, etc..., was all completely unnecessary time and expense to the customer. All the previous prep work was fine. They just made the mistake with the choice of curb top material (which is usually the customer's doing) and letting the glass guys drill holes in it. See that happen all the time. So much beautiful and expensive work can be ruined by such a tiny little bad choice.

[@miodzio6898]

how did you connect old waterproofing with new one ( if there was one in the first place ) - i get that you had butered up the gap with thinset and waterproffed it but as you had said it is not waterproof if there is a gap that old thinset had made imposible to connect waterproffing together - will it soak up water and start to rot ? how exactly do those repairs work?

[@StarrTile]

There wasn't any current waterproofing being used, that being said most of your failure happens ankle below so my waterproofing would avoid any problems going into the future

[@TamirO79]

How did you waterproof from the existing tile to the new tile/repair? Its supposed to be overlap each other

[@StarrTile]

I'm not sure I understand your question, the existing tile that's on the walls doesn't need waterproofing, the waterproofing happened the 17 in down from the existing tile to the pan and including the pan

[@zlaninomma6986]

So you are waterproffing the whole pan now instead of just a perimetar? Did you move from standard liner to this kerdi or just for this job?

[@StarrTile]

I have been waterproofing the entirety of the pan for probably six or seven years, maybe longer, and yes I only use a fabric membrane when it is the best product for the job

[@zimpler8340]

Did you put silicone under the liner around drain flange like you usually do with the pvc liner? If not, why not?

[@StarrTile]

Sometimes I will if I think it's necessary but as a rule we are doing water and water out system and therefore no water whatever see that area anyway

[@twoserve2449]

I stopped using deck mud, and went to sand mix, it's a much better product for shower pan, not sandy at all next day 🙌

[@StarrTile]

I've been using sand mix since the very first shower a built 😂.... I've never even seen deck mud sold here in Georgia

[@twoserve2449]

@@StarrTile, I wish I knew about this product sooner, deck mud put me trough some trouble in different occasions 🤦

[@damiangarcia786]

Question. How come you didn’t lay down sand mix bed and then fleece. It seems like you doing liquid waterproofing twice when you didn’t need to

[@jazzmikegreg9894]

This is a flawed install. When the liquid membrane fails, the pan will be saturated as the drain weep holes are plugged below and trapped, known as a mold sandwich. The wall should have been gutted up much higher, It does not look like the new tile backer board was waterproofed to the original exiting. This will fail over time.

[@patrickmclaughlin6013]

Does that water proofer stick to the silicon caulk around the drain? Seems like it would not bond and leak after a while.

[@StarrTile]

Yes it does a pretty good job... generally speaking I'm using waterproofer first to neck of drain and then overlapping the silicone. The waterproof layer is your safety net and silicone is backup.

[@patrickmclaughlin6013]

@@StarrTile Thanks for the follow up Bob!

[@chadahlvers697]

Do you ever use the Kerdi shower system? Is it worth it? Very expensive....

[@StarrTile]

The Schluter system and one of the components is Kerdi.... Yes extremely expensive for no benefit oh, but I do use kerdi material on occasion

[@fostersteele5825]

Question we pulled out a tub it's a concrete slab under whole house. We wanna cut out the concrete floor and dig down 8inches and pour a new slab size of the shower pan so it's below the main bathroom floor. Then build pre slope pan. The shower door will mount on the edge of the cut out, which we will grind down on a slight angle sloping towards the pan. What are your thoughts on this.

[@StarrTile]

So you're trying to accomplish building a curbless shower basically

[@fostersteele5825]

@@StarrTile the pan will be 4inches lower than the slab/ the main floor. So when you walk up to it and open the door you will step down four inches into the shower pan the main slab is the curb if that makes sense.

[@StarrTile]

@@fostersteele5825 right but I don't understand the purpose of that if his not a curbless shower which in essence it would be, you would still need to create some type of slope going up to the entrance and all other sides so that water will shed into the drain where ever that happens to be. And I'm still curious as to what your specific question is

[@Mr_Glock19]

Lol this is one of those scenarios you’ve spent too much time thinking about if you “could” you never stopped to think if you “should”. What you’re talking about can definitely be pulled off but.. why? Just to step down into your shower then have to step up out of it..? Why not just do a curb the normal way and save yourself a shit ton of time money and effort for exactly the same result? Or if you gotta be a little different just do curbless?

[@fostersteele5825]

@@Mr_Glock19 the main reason is if it ever leaked its below the main slab not leaking onto the main floor. As far as stepping down 4 inches and then back up 4 inches you kinda do the same thing when you lift your foot up to step up and over and down into a shower pan built on top of existing floor.

[@BonBon770]

The water will never be able to get over the lip of the drain because you double waterproof which is a mold sandwich, when the water gets through the tile on the shower pan it's going to be stuck in that waterproofing and since you waterproof around the drain and cocked it's just going to sit there and stay saturated in the Overflow will eventually go over but it will stay saturated

[@StarrTile]

Interesting dissertation.... Doesn't work that way, fortunately for me.

[@BonBon770]

@@StarrTile so then you tell me how the water that you just trapped oh, that's going to be in the thinset saturated underneath the shower pan tile, tell me how that gets over the caulking that you did and waterproofing to get in the drain,

[@StarrTile]

@@BonBon770 if and when it gets into the thinset below the tile then it will dissipate out of the grout line same way it got in, same way that a wall would if a wall gets saturated with water... the assumption is the excess water will evaporate. You can also refer to the article link that I put in my community tab, if you read that he basically says the same thing that I do, when a shower pan is saturated with water, even with a pre-slope then it will always be saturated, I would rather error on the side of caution and have a small amount of water between tile and thinset than to have the entirety of the pan saturated.

[@BonBon770]

@@StarrTile 😅

[@BonBon770]

@@StarrTile that is totally incorrect with a proper pre-slope in the weep holes not clogged and draining properly a traditional mud-bed will never stay saturated, it will saturate and dry and repeat, it will never stay saturated or hold water,, That's the whole point.

[@OGCJ10]

I'm doing this exact thing. The "contractor" who did my shower didn't know what the hell he was doing. Water seeped in and messed up the curb and God knows what else. Do you apply silicone where the shower floor tile meets the wall tile? Or is that just grout ?

[@StarrTile]

I only use grout, others will use silicone but I don't see the point if it's done correctly

[@OGCJ10]

@@StarrTile thank you, much appreciated.

[@thomassavage527]

So, you're basically building a swimming pool...

[@jheiny1231]

So why no cement board or similar application around curb? Looks like u thinsetted the wood curb. Wrapped with pan liner / waterproofed then tiled.

[@jheiny1231]

Looks like u thinsetted the liner around the curb too.? Before waterproofing

[@StarrTile]

Cement board goes inside outside and on top of the curb, then buttered with thinset then waterproofed...it's irrelevant what the wall board is, the entirety gets two coats of a liquid topical membrane, it is Bulletproof, not sure how to answer your question any better than that

[@jheiny1231]

@@StarrTile it wasn't showed in the video. So it looked like you just thinsetted the wood curb or something. I work construction. I am mechanically inclined. I do everything around my house and dont like to hire anyone unless I absolutely have to. And I am a perfectionist. And like my work to last. I like everything perfect. Even all minor details. I re-did both my showers about 4 years ago using your videos and they still look as good after the day I finished. So thank you for that. It been awhile since I visited your videos and just thought maybe you were doing it a different way now or something. I know how things constantly change over the years!

[@mikeb8542]

Why no pre slop?

[@StarrTile]

Mainly because I don't believe they function as intended but more importantly because we waterproof our pan surface so it is irrelevant

[@felipegrille8082]

Brother you're not doing anything different than the last tile guy..I guarantee it

[@mram7715]

Wondering why you don’t wait to grout the floor until the wall tile is installed? This way you grout everything all at once Great video

[@StarrTile]

The floor is grouted first because the wall tile will eventually overlap that so you need everything solidly filled

[@mram7715]

@@StarrTile ahh, good point. Thanks

[@seekthtruth]

Pre mix wont dry? is that what you said. Lord why would it ever be useful for anything then?

[@StarrTile]

Premixed thinset is not meant for a large format tile, doesn't get enough air under it to dry properly...6x6 or smaller it would work.

[@MrTooTechnical]

Omg

[@StarrTile]

C'mon Dave, did you not see the stabilis has at the 1h 5minute mark? 😉

[@MrTooTechnical]

Of course. But they are not the rbeam 300 like I have. 😝

[@StarrTile]

@@MrTooTechnical 😝

[@franciscoibarra1232]

The seems to be like travertine tile they suck up water so maybe the water got sucked up and it probably got into the curb.. maybe. I'm still on 6min of the video

[@ktmv2718]

Where are you located?

[@Faruk651]

Excellent video and top notch skills & knowledge. But I am against custom shower base in a wood structure. Stupid building codes dictates so many non sense but for some reason it doesn't dictate anything for these custom shower bases which gets butchered all the time. If I could i would ban custom shower base in wood structure. I built my own house in Ontario and if I put a custom shower base in the second floor, i wouldn't be able to sleep. So i went with an ugly quality acrylic shower base that has no seams, no way of wicking moisture or failing overtime (unless it cracks for some reason). I never understand why people choose form over function in such critical places. 51:32 sums it. Thinset is not a waterproof material. You have a fabric cloth that overlaps and supposed to seal together with a product that can pass thru moisture. So to solve that you are applying liquid membrane on top. So it is your what ? third defence? There is no such thing as 100% waterproof custom shower base. It is only a matter of when will the moisture make the passage all the way to the surface when you realize there is a leak. 3 years, 8 years whatever.

[@StarrTile]

Yes I agree with most of everything you said, but I have taken out the prefab fiberglass pans that were cracked and we're leaking through a ceiling, so even that is not Bulletproof. However I've taken out showers from the 1980s and 35 or 40 years later it is finally failed.... Everything that we are doing nowadays is much much better than they were back in the 80s and therefore you have a solid three or four decades... assuming some wife doesn't like the design and tears it apart a dozen years later 😂

[@Faruk651]

@@StarrTile No offence to you or any trades person in this field who takes pride in their work. I watch videos of you, tile coach and sal even tho i have nothing to do in this trade. I just like learning about trades. You are all awesome and offer so much to people who follows you. Thanks.

[@zackje1]

What is the brand name of the drain assembly?

[@StarrTile]

Oatey

[@zackje1]

Thank you sir.

[@relaxn79]

Which water proofer was that?

[@StarrTile]

I don't know the company name, but it's a knockoff of Schluter kerdi material since I couldn't get any kerdi that day

[@relaxn79]

@@StarrTile I mean the painted on water proofer.

[@StarrTile]

@@relaxn79 Ardex

[@craftpaint1644]

Man that glass they like in the shower is just awful nonsense. Whatever, not like I gotta look at it again 😞

[@jorgesandoval8989]

You used the wrong drain for the way you waterproof your pan with topical membrane. Should’ve been a bonding flange where is the water going to go without weep holes . This method is wrong and takes too long . It won’t leak but it’s wrong and unnecessary.

[@patrickmclaughlin6013]

What happened to the "mold sandwich" theory? Not a thing?

[@StarrTile]

Sure it would be a Thing If you allowed water to get into the mortar but mold needs three things to grow, food, air, moisture, If you eliminate one or more then it will not grow

[@patrickmclaughlin6013]

@@StarrTile Thanks for the follow up Bob!

[@xX.D3DP00L_Xx]

builder here. bright brass is the ugliest shit on earth.idc if its door knobs, hinges, fixtures, door stops , cabinet knobs. its all ugly. 2nd ugliest is antique brass

[@felipegrille8082]

When you say something is totally unnecessary. Please explain what you would do..

[@felipegrille8082]

You're patch up job will fail eventually

[@StarrTile]

💯 nope..... And it is not a patch job it's a rebuild 💪🏻

[@robertroyles1165]

Why would you waist time having fans watch you paint the shower floor when we could be watching something more constructive.

[@qoolcat7383]

Good work. 2 thoughts come to mind though. First, if you don't completely cover the thinset used on the seams with the waterproofing membrane, couldn't water eventually just wick under the plastic waterproofing through the exposed thinset? Second, by applying sealant under the drain, aren't you essentially creating a quarter inch dam around the drain that will prevent some of the water from properly draining if it ever leaked through the floor tile?

[@StarrTile]

All the seams of the material are overlapped with a waterproofer because I don't trust the thinset to be waterproof. And my waterproofer is clearly pushed up against the neck of the drain and silicone overlapped, so potentially water COULD get into grout and hit the waterproofer, but it is such a small area that my in my mind it would evaporate the same way it got in between showers... and of course the alternative is the water in water out system where the entire mud-bed is saturated with water in hopes that it dries out, which clearly it never will, so I suppose you have to pick your poison

[@MNtwincitieswaters]

Im currious on walls with both steel beams and 2x4 construction. Would you fit 2x4s in to fill the bottom pan or would you use steel?

[@StarrTile]

2x4