Let’s talk about Finals…

DCI 2022 was a wild ride to say the least and with an exciting end to the season, there are a lot of opinions being shared. We wanted to share our thoughts about this years results and some commentary on the current state of social media surrounding this season of DCI!
Instagram: funlinerproductions
00:00 - Intro
00:35 - Prediction Review
02:18 - Final Results
06:07 - "It was rigged"
08:45 - Addressing the BD hate
15:20 - Outro

[@christopherdesio9290]

As a Bluecoat this year the vibe definitely was not of unresolved feelings. We were pretty deadlocked in 4th all season until championships so being up there is amazing and it’s something people will remember for a while. We were giving Boston hearts when the tie was announced and they were giving them back. Obviously I can’t speak for Boston but we were happy considering where we were all season.

[@jaden7063]

it was such an amazing moment giving hearts to yall :)

[@willkuempel5307]

It was all love at retreat, I think it was more of both corps celebrating each other's success, rather than feeling cheated.

[@xanderlee7488]

As a Boston member i can say that the tie was awesome for us. This year had been a historic year for Boston so to add a tie to the year really put the icing on the cake. During retreat we were giving hearts to the Bluecoats and them giving them back to us. I can’t speak for those Bluecoats members but we were so happy to win a medal this year.

[@BlueJayDro]

I can’t speak for everyone but as a bloo alum the members that I did talk to said it was an honor to get to share the silver with Boston especially with the great show they put on the field

[@XtremeSportX247]

congrats to you and your organization

[@XtremeSportX247]

@@BlueJayDro congrats

[@kennyhuntsman7982]

Hi Xander. How you doin

[@xanderlee7488]

@@kennyhuntsman7982 Slime

[@benpetrmichl1903]

So are we not going to address the fact that there are corps outside of the top 5? These guys are incredibly smart and know a ton about the activity, but all of their content is based on the top 5 groups. There's nothing wrong with that, but there were some great shows this season, and there were 2 corps that made finals for the first time in DECADES (Colts and Troopers). It would be nice to hear more about those groups because they're the ones making history in the activity.

[@jacob5676]

well it’s their content and they also marched for those corps so

[@CarloBarlo69]

Troop and Colts were amazing!!! And also their drum lines were astonishingly great 🔥

[@funlinerproductions7071]

Hey Ben! Totally hear you. To be totally honest we just don’t have the time. Top 5 shows is a lot already and we want to give you guys a very knowledge critique and we feel that if we tried to just throw in another 7 corps on top of that, we wouldn’t really be giving much thoughtful insight to those shows. Maybe I’m the future though!

[@benpetrmichl1903]

@@funlinerproductions7071 I can totally respect that! I just thought I'd throw it out there and hopefully see some more content in that realm (when you obviously have time to do it)! I love the reaction videos on this channel though!

[@MrDavegiven0330]

Not to mention it was the first time in finals history to have TEN 90s!

[@ericweaver1386]

Being a Bluecoat this year, I gotta say that honestly getting second was amazing and that I disagree with the unresolved feeling you're saying that most of us probably have. It seemed like an everybody wins sort of situation and I think all members of both corps area just happy to do as well as we did this year.

[@kianajaye_music]

As someone who's just recently gotten into DCI, all this criticism for BD, or Bloo, or any corps in particular, just really drives me away. I just wanted to enjoy some good music and support the students. It sucks to see something that can bring me so much happiness to be picked apart to atoms because 'drum corps aren't as good as they used to be'. It's unfortunate that voices like that are the louder ones :(

[@nickniehaus1763]

You should watch some early 2000’s shows

[@sambelling7809]

You CAN enjoy and support the music and the students (I might be misunderstanding your premise). If it brings you happiness, it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks. At the end of the day, those corps are there to put on a show for you (and for themselves, to see how their hard work paid off). I understand it is near impossible to filter out the vocal minority sometimes, but hopefully you'll still be enjoying DCI next year!

[@samsignorelli]

@@just__dave We got a little of that in the "old" BD in the mid 80s....social media today just makes it easier to be obnoxiously loud about it.

[@samsignorelli]

@@just__dave I marched 84 soprano..you?

[@mattodonoghue9191]

It’s a bit deeper than just pissed off fans. There is a deeper root to the disappointment. The BD organisation is amazing BUT the imbalance is off the charts for the competition to ever been competitive moving forward. Unless your involved with the BD why would you want to go into a season year in year out knowing the result!

[@Wahl95]

Hey, y’all. Carolina Crown hornline alumnus from 2015-2016 here. Thanks for always putting out great content. I am a huge BD fan and love their shows from all eras. It’s amazing to see how much they have evolved throughout the years while remaining excellent. I would love to hear your take on this. How is it that BD comes out of the gate year after year so far ahead of everyone else and STAYS far ahead for the whole season? Is there really no other corps that’s close? What are other corps missing? I would especially like to hear from Malik and Alan given their experience with the Bluecoats prior to BD.

[@travismusicanddrums1428]

As a Bluecoat, we are beyond happy with the tie and couldn't be happier after walking into Finals week in 4th. Not sure about Boston, but we are happy

[@brown55061]

I love that you horn guys TRIED to predict drums lol. Even most of the old bloo bangers did not expect them to win the Sanford, that was epic. As for score, Felini was SOO much cleaner than this so 98.75 is still a bit high IMO. I do feel judges slot all corps still in terms of overall score. They alwasy give higher scores at Finals and 95% of the time quarters or semis are a corps 'cleanest show. But you nailed it, BD writes shows to win rings. Scores shoudn't be dictated by undereducated fans in the stands who have never tripled tonged a lick or played a rudiment. Lets let the professional judges handle it and trust them. Great year for DCI

[@rdlcbrown]

"BD writes shows to win rings".....so the negative of this is that other corps don't write shows to win rings. No corps designed their show to win except Blue Devils? Is that a correct statement?

[@Brockstar]

@@rdlcbrown BD has more winning "brains" behind what they do. Look at the results.

[@NightsShadow1]

I was there live all 3 finals nights. Let me tell you that everyone wanted an underdog story , that is what they wanted to reward. I think largest fan reactions were Troopers, Regiment and Boston. But man when Devils hit their first impact I knew they were going to win. The judges are not judging fan reactions, they are juding the kids. Their brass sounded nothing like any other corps, absolutely incredible. Honestly, unpopular opinion coming, if the scores were rigged it was in Boston's favor, their finals run just wasn't there for them and as much as I love their show the brass just doesn't make the same sound and the guard, while being absolutely stunning, had multiple drops and they deserved their second place in guard finals and to win the Zingali award. My favorite show was probably the Regiment, but I don't think they deserved to win, you can have both. What you say is true, though. I was hesitent about Devils show when I was watching it online, but seeing it live 3 times you get it. Also when you are live you get a wider perspective than you do on camera meaning you have more opportunity to see the minute spacing mistakes and other ticks you have no chance of seeing on the screen. I was a BD hater in high school, but as I grow and get more educated and sophisticated and look at the show more objectively the BD shows speak to me much more. The BD hate is like going to a symphony and talking about how much you hate it because it isn't a rock show. In a lot of ways the judges have to compare these 2 objectively and can't come in saying I want the rock n' roll show to win because that excites me more. I could go on for days but if you really go through the score sheet line by line it makes a lot more sense that the corps are being judged fairly and not just being slotted.

[@XtremeSportX247]

Great review

[@christopherwilson4197]

exactly how I feel. maybe not the disliking bd in high school part lol but yeah honestly bac had a lot of mistakes in their finals run and I totally thought bluecoats were gonna clinch second and here we are lol. crazy season for drum corps but I'm glad I was a part of it marching BDB

[@XtremeSportX247]

@@christopherwilson4197 after Boston messy run, i thought they would get 3rd but remember its an average of scores not just the finals run. BD had already placed high at prelims and semis so they would have had to really score low to make 2nd overall

[@gunner-qf9eh]

@@XtremeSportX247 Incorrect. Scores are not an three night average. Only captions are.

[@XtremeSportX247]

@@gunner-qf9eh yes u right ✅

[@reynolds727]

I’m a 96 vet. Having experienced the first tie at finals, I can attest to the feeling of a slight letdown with the unresolved nature of the finish. It fades with time though, and I can still wear my ring with pride at a drum corps show :) What I will say is that the ire directed at the Blue Devils for their success was around then as it is now. It was certainly not as public without the internet, but people were just as upset when Madison or Cavaliers lost because they loved those corps or their shows more than ours. (I really don’t blame them with the 96 Madison Scouts’ show, it was mind blowing live lol). What I found interesting at the time was how feelings towards us changed as our success picked up. I marched 2 seasons prior in 92 and 93, both 4th place shows. As a horn line member, we were treated like rock stars wherever we went at shows, and we were generally a crowd favorite, or at least one of them. Start winning though, and suddenly the system is rigged, our shows were boring, and there’s no possible way we were better than …fill in the blank of your favorite corps. That emotion is just amplified on the internet, and by a string of wins unequaled by any other group. Keep up the good work. Even us old farts enjoy watching your take on things. :)

[@Wahl95]

Dude, the ‘93 hornline is UNREAL… one of my personal favorites in BD’s storied history of brass excellence.

[@cavie95]

Cavalier alumni here. I have no malice towards the kids, but the majority of the shows of today don’t connect to me. Blue Devils and Cavaliers included. My favorites this year? Crown and Phantom. I miss BD of old. Those shows are the ones that emit emotion to me. Also guys, stay above board. If people call out your corps for being boring or not emotional, respect that. Don’t attack the crowd for their opinion.

[@malikneille]

Fair, but I think you’re missing some context there. Our gripe with the “boring show” comments is that people are saying that THAT is why they shouldn’t have won. I think that’s a bit silly. The opinion of it being boring is totally fine with me. Just trying to explain that they won because of achievement above all else and that we shouldn’t be so confused by that.

[@vidalrodriguez2001]

When GE can’t open up the spread between Boston and Bloo enough on either night, and music and Visual are all over the place, it’s honestly tough for ties to happen now. It was crazy to see it happen on both nights. Keep in mind that the public would have never predicted Boston and Bloo tying, I don’t think it’s a foul play “judges wanted a tie” thing Also: Keep it up dudes, if y’all are able to get together again for the coming season, give an insider, experienced perspective from guys as young as y’all are, it’s definitely very interesting to hear what you guys have to say all being multi-year veterans of the activity. I’ll say BD’s show wasn’t exactly my cup of tea, but I also still wanted to see it live, didn’t get the opportunity to at my local shows, but I’m sure it’ll happen next year, I try to attend at least 1 live show a year, and at least with how drum corps in general turned out in its first full season back, it was a massively successful season for many corps and the product out there for many was top-notch! Looking forward for what corps have planned for next year!!

[@oldsoulmermaid1543]

I also want to add that Blue Devils had the most complex book. That would be evident if you had all of the top 5 corps perform a stand-alone performance one after another. The Blue Coats show was left exposed after they did a standing performance and it showed how much it relied on the narration. What Blue Devils did in having their long ballad feature was brave. That’s not to say that the performers didn’t execute it wonderfully. Also, every corps has their aesthetic. Boston, for instance designs much of their shows with their guard as the focal point and feature (I don’t blame them…their guard is awesome!). Blue Devils, on the other hand, uses a softer approach using their guard to enhance, rather than to be a full on focal point of the show.

[@Brockstar]

Take away the gimmick from BC's show (e.g., a standstill with no props), and you're left with....garbage. Not the players' faults. They did a great job. It was just a terrible show. BD's show killed!

[@KingJasonSlots]

This discussion is extremely well done! Very enjoyable!

[@squillz8310]

BD winning brass has been a long time coming. They honestly sound a lot better now than they did on the System Blue horns and even then, they sounded reeeally good. I'm really coming around on my thoughts about Tempus Blue. It isn't my favorite show of the season, but it's a damn good show nonetheless. I'm just getting more excited for next season already lol

[@turkishdelight6032]

Isn’t System Blue their brand? If so, then they’re basically saying that their own instrument manufacturer isn’t good enough

[@WilliamBottka]

@@turkishdelight6032 yes, exactly that

[@squillz8310]

@@WilliamBottka system blue has folded. They no longer exist.

[@risentra6181]

"Very simple, Very Simple" (Right Here, Right Now)

[@NativeNYker73]

Thanks so much for your observations! As someone who is a Bluecoats alum who only just recently returned to live performances, I can tell you that a lot of these comments are coming from band kids who have little to no real ability to articule distinctions between marching band and drum corps performances. As an activity, drum corps is not meant to look like , sound like, or, in any other way, emulate American Idol (or marching band, for that matter)!!! I personally listened to several of these ridiculous conversations on Friday and Saturday night in Indy. In some instances, the parents were just as guilty as the kids in committing these egregious errors of thought. As veterans of the activity, we'll need to forgive them their trespasses...for they know not what they do (only what they think they like)!!! Another thing that's important to remember is EXECUTION! Regardless of who we all might favor, every performer (and thus every corps) must know how to turn it on at just the right time. While Boston might have had the meatier percussion book, the fact is that the players did not perform well the notes that were written on those pages either Friday or Saturday night. I was sitting in the stands both nights and can attest to this fact. Further, the overall performances for Boston on both nights felt a bit flat. Perhaps explaining the tie with a late season surging Bluecoats. According to the averages leading up to finals, however, Boston should have been ahead of Bluecoats numerically, but that didn't happen because of the judges evaluation of how well Boston executed the more difficult aspects of its show. While I'll certainly never be accused of being an avid fan of the Blue Devils, as a fan of the activity, I will say unequivocally that the Blue Devils have and continue to do an excellent job of consistently knowing when and how to execute. That factor alone has allowed them to become one of the most winning corps in the history of the activity. There...you've earned my eight cents on the matter!!! Feel free to spend it however you'd like...😃

[@coolwiz7994]

I think everyone, EVERYONE, needs to go back and watch crown and BD in 2012. When these guys talk about a rock concert vs an orchestral masterpiece, those 2 shows were the epitome. Everyone thought crown should have won. They scored 97.5. BD won with a 98.7. Crowns show we had ALL SEEN BEFORE MANY TIMES. Loud, massive impacts with music we had heard. Cabaret Voltaire is still my favorite show of all time cause it changed DCI. It was visually mesmerizing and had a deep connection to many events in the past. It was the thinking persons show. But people HATED IT. Why??? Cause they didn't get it and could only relate to loud and pretty simple i.e. crown. I liked for the common good but in NO WAY did it deserve 1st.

[@rock27272727]

Based comment. BD 2012 is still the best visually designed show of all time!

[@coolwiz7994]

@@rock27272727 Based??

[@rock27272727]

@@coolwiz7994 just means that I agree with you!

[@squillz8310]

@@coolwiz7994 Based - being yourself and not caring what others think of you or your opinions

[@coolwiz7994]

I'm old 🤣

[@kevinthesnake4581]

As someone who’s marched the mandarins a few years now, I’ve seen everything that BD has put out and god damn can BD put out a really clean, well executed and performed show. I watched their show live so many times and some of my best friends were marching tempus blue. I’m not gonna sit here and act like I wasn’t rooting for boston to beat out BD tho lol. But man they were undefeated this season lol, people don’t realize that you don’t just beat out and undefeated show

[@ponyob3028]

I agree with yalls points but I can also see the others sides points too. I like BD. One of my favorite shows from them is 2005. But as of late, every show has felt like a sequel to Metamorph and I think people are getting tired of that. I liked the show this year but it didn't illicit any reaction other than "yeah... that's bd", just like the last couple of shows they've had. Not that they're bad, it just feels uninspired but that's not the members faults. They deserve the praise and scores they get for the hard work they put it

[@bradmichaels4302]

This right here

[@ethanhowells4920]

You got it spot on. BD knows the secret to winning, even if it means having a very simple show. I think that’s why people have been drawn to other corps like Coats, Vanguard and crown because they’re actually trying new things and being creative, even if it means their show is weaker. Not saying BD is creative, but they’ve been very very cookie cutter since 2017

[@ethanhowells4920]

Isn’t creative*

[@jakqer]

I feel like audiences like to be asked to fill in a show with their imagination. Especially sophisticated ones like theater audiences who are into show design and artistically intelligent elements. As Scott Chandler observed, sophisticated audiences want something that they they want to see more than once, whether it's a TV show, a movie, or a book. They want to be taken to a place that they want to revisit.

[@KleinkMusic]

I want to start off by saying that everyone did great this season. It's my first real time closely watching the season unfold in real time and it's super interesting to see how it all goes about. It's amazing that we saw two corps that didn't make finals in over 10 years make a return. It's also amazing to see a historic result of a 2nd place tie. So many great results and moments to be had and cherished. I have several friends I marched indoor with to cheer on. It was an amazing experience to watch it all unfold. _However..._ This BD talk is seriously a complex subject, or at least people talking about it is a complex subject. So many claims and reasonings and defenses. I think it all really boils down to this... People are just really tired of the dynasty. It's one of those questions that's more of "Why is BD different?" What puts them up top and keeps them up there? Let's just divorce this subject from the performers themselves because yes, BD wins a lot but it's not all the same ensemble. The cast changes every year. Some people stay the same but most people either move to another corps or age out, or just quit entirely. Really, what makes this _program_ stand out from the rest? Most of the top 12 have secured titles at least once, a few more than once, even fewer used to be the winning-est before BD came out on top. I hear a lot that staff retention plays a big part and I agree. What I wonder is why that isn't the case for most if not every other organization. What makes staff step down and move to other places? What comes to mind for me is Crown's design staff leaving for BAC after 2016. They secured their first ever Zingali and then book for another corps? I mean obviously it's working out for them _now_ but what made them do it then? Why are 'devs the odd ones out here in terms of staff retention? People are mostly just bored, seriously. Competition really is no fun if you already know who's going to win 2 months ahead of time. There's a reason that people get more excited when another corps wins. It subverts the status quo in the activity. And to the people who say "It's not about the scores! Placements don't matter. Just enjoy the performances!" respectfully, no. Just no. Yes, the core of this activity and how it runs is in the education space. Yes, this is a performing art, but people sign up for this activity to compete and get judged. I know not everyone does, but it's a fundamental element of the corps-style culture, and I feel it's very unhealthy to divorce this activity from the context of competition, because that's what it is. To say that the scores don't matter is to ignore one of the fundamental roots of this activity. Another issue is the famous "They just design to the sheets! They play to win and win only!" Well why don't other corps do it? Why don't they design to the sheets? Better yet, why don't they prove that they can present a masterclass of design while also being approachable and down to earth? If they prove that to the judges, then the devils will have to keep up. Design to the sheets better than BD and show them you're better at their own game while also avoiding being artsy and hard to appreciate. There's just way too much to possibly unpack but I want to pick your guys' brains more. Do you have more thoughts or answers? I'd love to have a deep discussion about this.

[@funlinerproductions7071]

Thanks for the very well thought out and insightful comment! To be honest there’s not much I’d disagree with here. It’s no secret that there is a substantial community that is very tired of the Blue Devils winning. To your point about staff retention, I think that has a lot to do with BD’s current dynasty, especially in regards to the design team. The staff works together like a well oiled machine and all agrees on the process and the pace. Also, another key element is the admin side of things. The member experience at BD is one of the best in the activity. When you get sleep and good food and sense that your staff prioritizes your health and mental well being, it truly allows you to learn and achieve at the highest level. In 2017, we had over 10 free days over the course of the season and never lost a show. Now this idea that BD “designs to the sheets” and “not for the audience” has always been an interesting perspective to me. Maybe my experience as a member and inherent bias makes me disagree, but at the macro scale, I don’t think Scott Chandler and the design team are even considering the judges and the sheets when crafting a Blue Devils production. Sure, once you get down to the nitty gritty, the staff is thinking about how certain technical aspects of the overall show concept are expressed in a way that can be best consumed and appreciated by both judges and audience alike. But isn’t that how all drum corps build their shows? I understand that some people may find BD’s shows harder to consume than some other groups but I think that may stem from a general ideology at BD that the goal when creating a show is to be the best Blue Devils ever. And sometimes that consists of pushing the boundaries of what drum corps is and going farther away from the typical band formula and more towards an artistic theatrical realm. Which many fans don’t find as entertaining. Anyways that’s my 2,000 cents and I appreciate hearing your thoughts on all of this! - Everett

[@KleinkMusic]

@@funlinerproductions7071 Oh Everett, you flatter me, hahaha! It's super interesting to hear a more complete story now that I have the inside perspective of an actual A corps devil. I honestly don't really believe in any judging foul play in this activity, at least not at the levels of DCI/WGI/BOA/what have you. Even if there are things that trained audience members can/can't see, even as a STRYKE Wynds member when we were a tenth of a point ahead of UTRGV in prelims, only to be nearly 2-pointed by them a day later. There may be bad judges, especially in lower and smaller circuits, but there are no intentionally malicious judges in my book. The only real answer is "They're just better." in most cases. I feel like the hate comes out of a suspicion, however. A sort of "How long can they really just _be better_ for?" As if the only real way BD can stay in the top 2 for 15 straight years is if foul play is involved. But honestly, looking at lot videos, designer insights, BD is just on top because they're simply better. I spent time with a friend the other day slo-moing and freeze-framing lot shots of BD in across-the-floors and the attention to detail is pristine. BD will doubtlessly be a consistent Brazale winning ensemble for years to come. The design team definitely compliments that. (Let's just ignore their virtual production from last year. Yeesh, who was put in charge of that disaster? 😬) It really does make me wonder why no other corps has matched the consistency of BD for as long anymore. I mean it's not like competing corps _want_ to lose. It's a shame that you hear "The only time another corps wins is if BD has an off year" nowadays. I'd like to see other corps step it up and see what they can do for next year. On the flip side, is it just me or have the last 3 winning shows kind of melded together? Honestly it feels like the trend of BD's core design has produced shows that center around how great they are. 2017: Metamorph is arguably BD's greatest and most memorable production and that isn't without reason. It was BD's 60th anniversary and the show focused on that change from traditional to modern, celebrating BD throughout the ages. 2019: Ghost Light was a more abstract concept but one that I think made a lot of sense for me personally, exploring different fantasies and worlds of play and creativity. I do smell a bit of 2017 in this show, however. I even hear some moments from that show. (Trombone feature, anyone?) 2022: I mean, come on. Do I even need to explain it? A show about the history of blue. While the specifics are very lost on me, and while I don't really know where "history of the color blue" fits in for this show, it's very much another "We are the Blue Devils" show. It was DCI's 50th and BD's 65th so there's obviously anniversary fever all over this design. This isn't really a jab as it is an observation. I remember when BD's shows were about more concrete and conventional concepts like the moviemaking of Fellini (2014) and exploring concepts and contexts of paintings (2018) and I kind of miss that. BD used to tell stories that, if not made complete sense, had a clear message. These shows nowadays are still generally effective but... Wait hold on that reminds me... What does the General Effect caption even _mean?_ I always figured it was about show design in and of itself. A system that rewards high execution of high-demand content and punishes low-demand content. Sure, a corps can play even quarter notes very cleanly, but simple content performed at a high level, although technically impressive is very boring and plays extremely safe. I thought GE incentivized riskier content by critiquing what goes into a show. There are so many definitions nowadays that contradict what happens in execution. It could be about audience connection but if that was the case, Crown's show this year would have done better. If it's about cohesion, maybe Coats or Troopers would have scored higher. GE baffles me and I wonder if the rubric can be made more clear... I've given you more than $1,000 worth of insight and perspective and I'm happy you paid some of it back to me. I'd like to hear more if you want to keep the thread going or want me to reach out. :)

[@JacksonJ02193]

I was at finals and here is my thing: I watched the Blue Devils show and I was blown away by the performance. I’m not going to deny that for a second. I would just much rather watch a fun show like Troopers or Bluecoats, or a show with an amazing background like Colts or Crusaders. Let me put it this way: I have gotten a few DCI shows stuck in my head (Troopers, Crusaders, Crown, Coats, Colts, and Cavilers) but I haven’t really ever gotten Blue Devils stuck in my head. Was their show kick-ass? Abso-fricken-lutley! Memorable? Yeah for sure! But it didn’t strike my interest like other shows did. After I watched finals, I knew the Devils would win. But idk man… they just didn’t strike as much interest. They play something beautiful, but people don’t want to see that every year…

[@Lacheddar1990]

The only thing I was curious about was BD’s score going up during finals when their best run wasn’t finals.

[@jakewilliams7484]

I respect all three of your opinions the most because I recognize your experience within the activity, but I disagree on the blue devils show. Nothing to do with the members, they have the best talent, and those performers are amazing. They deserve to be rewarded for what they do. But the product Blue Devils put out year after year is just uninviting, unaccessible, and boring honestly. From my "fan perspective" at least. What the judges score is what they score, they obviously love devils year in and year out. But this activity needs to shift more towards the fans and away from judges scoresheets. If fans arent targets audiences then this activity will never grow, and will probably slowly decline. Im not saying there should be a "Fan participation" caption... thats dumb. But more corps need to start thinking more about what those fans in the stands think when designing. The Bluecoats are a perfect example of that approach. That my totally "Fan perspective" opinion anyways. Thanks for the video guys! Look forward to seeing some reaction videos soon. 2021 season was not as fun without your opinions and reactions!

[@funlinerproductions7071]

Thanks for sharing your perspective! I agree that the Bluecoats definitely is a great example of excellent drum corps that is also easily accessible. In terms of what’s best for the activity, I think at the end of the day we have to remember it is a competition. And that competition drives the innovation of the activity. You may not see it, but BD’s creativity has helped evolve the activity forward along with other corps like Bluecoats and Crown. Another thing to remember, your favorite corps doesn’t have to win in order for the overall community to enjoy the activity as a whole. A lot of people immediately jump to “I’m done watching drum corps” simply because their favorite corps lost. But the show is still just as enjoyable regardless of the placements.

[@malikneille]

Do not forget that this is a competition. Shifting the attention away from scoresheets means no one would be clean. Drum corps is about excellence first. For me personally, it’s hard to see or hear something that’s dirty and still be positive. Also, I believe that the Blue Devils are really good for DCI. I think the way corps are pushed into greatness and innovation and curating an attention to detail within their membership is in part a response to the standards the Blue Devils keep. At the Bluecoats in 2016, we talked about the Blue Devils all the time(maybe even to a fault). Knowing that you overcame the Blue Devils is special because you know that the Blue Devils never let up.

[@Brockstar]

If you want gimmicks, stick to pop radio. BC is the pop radio of drum corp. While I recognize their feverish fanbase, I strongly believe their approach will devolve the activity. You like sing along (e.g., the ending of BC 2019), go to a karaoke bar! If you take the gimmicks out of the 2022 BC show, the music simply wouldn't stand. It's a terrible show. Conversely, you could take all the GE out of BD's show and it'd still be exemplary to listen to. I'm aware GE is becoming a bigger and bigger factor in terms of DCI scoring (which, personally, I'm mixed about), but for 2022 it literally could be removed and BD still had the best show. For contrast's sake, if you look at BD's 2018 show, Dreams and Nighthawks, the GE was insane and it actually had relevance. It wasn't just a giant prop that sat and did nothing. It wasn't endless, pointless narration. It developed an arch, building into a composition. BD simply elevates this activity and I'm so grateful that's acknowledged in the scores.

[@esfunkytown9926]

I'll be honest when i first started getting into DCI i was a hater towards the blue devils i'll admit. Through 2011 and 2013 I was a hardcore crown, bluecoats and scv fan. I still am but i was one of those people who were getting tired of seeing blue devils constantly winning. And i never really understood their shows or grasped what they were trying to do for their show. In terms of shows i like is shows like crowns 2012 show and bluecoats 2010. Shows that hit you in the mouth and blew your face off as fans would say. But when 2014 DCI year hit that changed my view about the Blue Devils. When i went to see them live at San Antonio for the first time i was blown away. They sound so powerful and clean , so well balanced throughout the corp. And it showed in the score they got at the end of the year. Now i wouldn't say it turned me into a fan just yet but i understand now why they are so good. That show in particular is one of my favorite blue devils sow 2014 right next to beat my heart skipped. All this to say I acknowledge them and some shows they put on ill give it a clap. And there are some shows were i really enjoy them. P.S. that tank closer is beast!!

[@averybyars5782]

Y’all should definitely react to the troopers show, coming from a trooper I have never gotten more complaints and congrats than after every show even going back to the beginning of tour in Washington

[@chaselabash6695]

I absolutely believe BD deserved to win this year. They were so much cleaner visually than everyone else. I think the 98.75 is a little inflated. Their run Finals night wasn’t great, mainly in the brass and battery musically, which is reflected in them getting 3rd in Brass and 3rd in Percussion finals night, which I think is accurate given the new judging peramiters. That run being a top 10 show ever just leaves me a little confused. But a well deserved gold medal, fantastic show, fantastic members, fantastic execution. Congrats on a well earned 20 BD

[@SaneTheBro]

"I didn't hear any emotion in the Blue Devils show" Try turning the volume up

[@breadenjoyer7986]

I completely agree about the tie, and most of the scores BD just had a very strong 3 nights, I thought they did a fantastic job, sitting I Lucas oil hearing the tie announced was crazy tho lol.

[@anthonylam3922]

My favorite show was Blue Coats, but watching the Blue Devils show proves that they are just at a different level in terms of music and vis and there is no question why the Blue devils won in the end.

[@nolanxx24]

I watches your predictions video then i wrote down mine right after and guessed the bd finals score correct

[@steamedbryce]

8:54 The 2020 quarantine definitely changed internet commentary as a whole. Every fandom has gotten saltier since then and most of them are mainly complaints about their subject. The echo chambers have grown substantially and most them (especially those originating from reddit) are comprised mainly of negativity.

[@zachyd120]

i love you guys and respect your opinion and i also believe that blue devils absolutely deserved the win, but i think you guys do have a quite a bit of bias when it comes to the connection to their show because obviously you guys already know the staff, designers, etc. it’s kinda their job to translate it easier to US so we can see all the deeper meaning and be moved by it. also i feel like you guys could talk more abt other corps… bd is great but i feel like most people would like to hear abt ALL drum corps and not hearing majority about one corps

[@BerserkRain]

I mean they have said plenty of times they have bias and even in the prediction vid but the irony is that their educated guesses were pretty accurate sense they actually saw SE Championship in person which is later in the season. Also ik people say this often about the show design a lot but it is the designer job to create a show for the corps not their job to specifically create a show that allows the corp to succeed and perform not exactly where the crowd understands everything off of 1 or 2 watches at face value. And also if u look at their past vids they do talk abt other corps but ofc I get that u want them to talk abt tons of others but ofc that takes time. Ofc ik it is ur opinion on a lot of stuff so I respect that but like yea I see u think that BD deserve it which I do too even if my fav show was BAC.

[@noeesparza1382]

Yall should definitely do more lower corps, no offense but I’d like to see judging from the lower ones to for members that marched them ( me at mc ) but Fr I’d like to see a comparison of Music City, Pacific crest, and Acadamy.

[@glenolesinski9442]

Honestly I would love to see some judge tapes released. Would help convince people it’s not rigged.

[@Trevor22302]

Well, in 2019, Prosperie called out BD for audible dirt at least three times and still gave then a 10 in achievement, and that .1 was enough to give BD the championship, so judges tapes obviously don’t matter.

[@glenolesinski9442]

@@Trevor22302 well part of it is risk reward. They have to be rewarded some how for their achievement. I mean, if that tape was never released you wouldn’t have an idea at all. So it did help.

[@gunner-qf9eh]

@@Trevor22302 So Prosperie isn't a good judge? Let me ask you this.............in 2008 when Prosperie had BDs drums in 5th, and Phantom Regiment won by the slimmest margins, was he a bad judge then?

[@skywriter9016]

Great 2022 season, but before I sign off can anyone explain to me what the 80's Wayne Downey photo billboard in the Bluecoats show meant?? And is he getting any NIL royalties?🤔 Thanks! NOW I'M REALLY DUN...

[@DoubleJmtz]

There is clear preference from audiences which sways their thoughts on which corp “deserves” to win. At the end of it, scores are dictated by performance. I can say for 2019 I LOVED the bluecoats. It was my absolute favorite, but i wont deny they had a less than perfect run in Indy, and couldn’t hold off BD. This year even at San Antonio BD was undeniably clean. This year’s brass book was insane and insanely executed. I think BD wins because they take the risks, so many clips this year of the screamers struggling, but they turned it on when it mattered most.

[@mattodonoghue9191]

So what were your thoughts on Finals then? Maybe retitle this video, a reaction and defence to the Blue Devils winning?

[@funlinerproductions7071]

Watch the first half of the video again! Maybe you will catch it this time

[@oldsoulmermaid1543]

The Blue Devil’s show is a grown up show…a thinking person’s” show, if you will. There are layers upon layers to Tempus Blue to which those who’s only education in music is pop concerts, the layers and nuances are going to be totally lost on. I think Malik’s analogy of the difference between going to a rock concert and the museum is right on. I would add the analogy of a pop concert and symphony. Totally different animals. Boston, Blue Coats, and Crown had amazing shows! But everything is handed to the audience and all of the elements are intentionally meant to appeal to the younger demographic. Which is great, if that’s the route you want to go. People don’t seem to realize the the scoring in DCI is not made to reflect how a show makes you feel or whether it makes you jump out of you seat after a back flip or streamer waving. Also, I do want to address the ungraciousness of fans…I was at many live shows and at a couple I saw the same group of Crown fans. At both shows (one of which was semi finals) they made a point to get up out of their seats and leave as Blue Devils were in the first 20 seconds of their show! The epitome of rudeness! I was so excited to attend DCI finals weekend for the first time for my son’s age out year, but it was tarnished somewhat by the nasty and ungracious behaviors and comments by the fans all weekend. Do they not realize that nearby could be standing a family who has sacrificed for years so that their child could participate in this special activity and sacrificed to be able to attend finals? I don’t think this behavior is prevalent between the corps…they are fans of each other. But the arm chair judges…OMG! This summer has been very eye opening and I’ve sadly had a first hand look at the downslide of society where manners, empathy, and decorum have no place. Thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent wrap up!

[@robinli4931]

Okay but who goes to a marching band show to "visit a museum" and learn about the wisdom of Ancient Egyptians and Lapis Lazuli?

[@DavidThePercussionist]

I predicted blue devils we’re gonna get a 98.725 but they got a 98.750 so close

[@Splooie010]

Wonder if you guys will dedicate a vid to the Bluecoats Alumni performance??

[@mbmaccin555555]

I was just surprised watching BD live in indy on finals night and recognizing how unclean their brass was because they were super clean the other 2 nights. Brass and percussion got 3rd. Their victory run was better though lol BD well deserved first though

[@siedenzwei2254]

I personally LOVED Boston's show as well as Bluecoats'. Even going as far as showing both to my family who usually views all of drum corp. as the "museum" experience you were talking about with BD. This was odd to them since I have been a die hard fan of BD since 2003. However when watching Bluecoats and Boston's finals performance, I have to agree with the judges; there were cracks showing in both shows as amazingly written and peroformed as they were. I have a head cannon for finals; every show in the top 12 is 1st place material with 1st place performers. The only thing seperating each placement is the execution on THAT LAST NIGHT. The fact that everyone who I showed Bluecoats and Boston's show to was EASILY pointing out ticks despite not really knowing what a tick was, is very telling. Rifle drops, musical glitches, SLIGHT differences in musical interpretation; I reiterate, in my mind ANY of these corps. could've taken this championship and personally bluecoats and boston were my favorites this year. But in my opinion BD came to compete. I only watched their finals performance, but BD was on point. The issues that second place had was virtually invisible in BD. In a fair world, Boston would've taken their first title, but to say "its rigged" is to completely undermine all of the hard work they put in this season in order to (excuse the caps lock here but I cannot understate this next statement) GIVE THEIR BEST PERFORMANCE IN THE HISTORY OF THEIR ORGANIZATION, WITH THEIR HIGHEST SCORE BY ALMOST 3 POINTS HIGHER THAN THEIR PREVIOUS, AND THEIR HIGHIEST PLACEMENT BY 4 POSITIONS (and again I can't understate this) WINNING THEIR FIRST MEDAL! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? THEY SHOULD BE PARTYING IN BOSTON RIGHT NOW! (alright caps lock over, sorry) Not having their legacy questioned by people who in my opinion don't love this sport. To all the performers and fans (in the words of a 2013 judge to Carolina Crown) Thank you for touching my life.

[@undefined1022]

Would love to hear about other corps outside the top 5🤷‍♂️

[@closersdci]

9:23 For real, if you don't like a corps then don't watch any of their shows and bog down those who actually enjoy the corps. All of these people who crap on the DCI corps have never marched corps or regular highschool marching band in their lives. 🤷🤷

[@steamedbryce]

"The Blue Devils write to the scoresheets!!" It's a competition. Everyone's writing to the scoresheets at least a little bit. Do you know how many times my designers and techs tried their hardest to predict what the judges wanted to see on a given show night?

[@joshuashanchi9327]

Well at the end of the day, isn't the point of a marching band show to entertain the crowd? Who goes to a football game to see "art" that's "difficult to consume" during half time? What's the point of putting something on the field that only you understand? So that you can feel sophisticated about yourself? This isn't your recital for your masters in music.

[@malikneille]

There are different forms of entertainment. Not just the “stand up and cheer” kind. If you’re that concerned about it, then don’t watch drum corps for the scores. You will be forever dissatisfied.

[@skywriter9016]

Good discussion and illustration. Just remember guys can't please everyone in this hungry drum corp world. Blue Devils are like French cuisine, it's rich with different flavors of influence but doesn't appeal to everybody. Some people just like some good ol meat and potatoes like Phantom Regiment not so complex easy to digest and enjoy. Whatever your craving DCI has something for you! Thanks guys! and keep drum corp alive in during the off season. NOW IM DONE 😁👍

[@chrissmith8586]

Hey guys, love the podcast, and I totally agree with your points about how the Blue Devils receive too much hate. I'll start off by sayiong I think their show was the most well designed and executed of the year. Their show this year was incredible, especially visually, and they absolutely deserved to win. That being said, can someone explain how they dominated brass all year??? From my perspective, they were extraordinarily out of tune for sections of the show for most of the season, especially the mellos, and even in their chords don't seem to "lock in" as well as some corps that even place in the 6-10 range (like a Phantom Regiment). All of their runs and double tonguing were very clean, probably the cleanest corps of the season, but I just can't get over how much less powerful (in my opinion) their chords sound than a Boston or Crown, because of tuning or blending. Is it just me and my personal preferences that are dictating this??

[@ms.macabre]

The Blue Devils were extremely clean actually. In terms of what you may be referring to, such as finals night, could be little slip ups in a few solos since that was something that happened (but is okay!!). Their show compared to Boston, Bloo, and Crown was far more difficult and actually risky in terms of how it should be played-- and the fact they had pulled it off cleanly with synchronicity was stunning. I understand your point that these moments can be a bit off-putting, but every corps gets the jitters on prelims - finals and they make these mistakes, but the accumulated brass score ended up being that prelims and semi finals were REALLY good for BD then finals was also really good in that same aspect.

[@kolbyarnold]

As someone that marched bd this year, I would agree that intonation was our biggest problem as a hornline, but how hard our book was and how well we executed pretty much every other aspect of it besides intonation carried us. I also wouldn't say we dominated brass. Yes, we won every show except when Steven Page was judging (Atlanta and finals night) but they were all by very small margins, usually .1 or .2, never going past .3 against crown. Hope this makes sense. Obv I'm biased but that's just our perspective

[@squillz8310]

@@kolbyarnold I have a question cause I'm genuinely curious. Did the switch from System Blue horns have anything to do with those intonation issues? Or was that just to do with the amount of rookies in the corps? Just curious because I haven't gotten to talk to many members

[@kolbyarnold]

@@squillz8310 I honestly couldn't tell you about the other horns at all but the trumpets played on bachs, which are overall much much better horns than system blues but are notoriously out of tune. It also just wasn't something we focused on a ton, i wouldnt say it had to do with the skill of the members

[@NightsShadow1]

Did you see them live? Makes a big difference. Especially on Semi's night they really did sound a step ahead. Loved Phantom so much that night too! Going to a show is incredible the entire night you wonder how could this possibly get better and just does. I was a percussionist so I don't have the words but the sounds from the top corps hit you like a wall and you can only experience that live.

[@morganfuchs6547]

This is my first season following dci or even knowing what it is for that matter, therefore I feel my opinion is relatively unbiased. BD are incredibly clean both musically and visually, but I believe this is only because they never do the two together. All great musicians can be great while standing still, and all great visual people can be great without playing. The other top 5 corps executed both just as good (or better in the case of bloo and Boston) as the Blue Devils, and were able to do both simultaneously unlike the latter. To combat this, there should be some sort of regulation mandating a minimum playing while marching time. Drum corps is MARCHING BAND not MARCHING STAND TL:DR - There needs to be a minimum time regulation for marching and playing at the same time, therefore BD should be docked points.

[@calvinswaney3452]

L + Ratio

[@WilliamBottka]

Nah this isn’t it, bluedevils did the most moving (actually challenging drill) out of the top 3. It wasn’t my favorite show but your eye for challenge still needs to be learned

[@funlinerproductions7071]

Very interesting comment Morgan. We hear this argument a lot that “BD doesn’t march and play” and I think it’s really interesting that you assume this after watching the show. You say you’re relatively unbiased but the reality is that BD moves and plays more than both Crown and Boston. I and multiple other people have went and timed all three of these shows to see if this common argument is based in any fact and the result was that Blue Devils plays the most on the move followed by Crown and then Boston (I personally did not time Bluecoats show in this experiment). So your argument that Blue Devils gets away with a perceived excellence in visual and music by separating the two demands is actually more of an opinion that is not backed up by the facts. - Everett

[@Mattyfear]

People say they don’t like BDs show because they don’t understand it. it’s explained in one of the BD360 videos. It’s not like this is information that’s kept under wraps. And usually BD shows take more watchings to understand why tunes are selected or why a certain visual is being done. It’s like for Ink when people say the music for the drum feature sucks and the guard is dancing like strippers. Yes that was sort of the point, the guard was suppose to be distracting and seducing red riding hood and the music fit that. The more you watch these shows the better you’ll understand them and things become clearer

[@benkessler4439]

For another view, I just don't think a lot of people are interested in putting in the time to consecutively watch the show a few times to understand everything on the 5th try. Nothing against doing that if you want to but personally I don't really want to put in that time to understand a show. To clarify, none of that is the fault of the performers, but having the show designers write complex themes doesn't generally bode well with a lot of the audience that just wants to understand themes without having to look them up.

[@mesirpez]

Exactly. They literally broke down the whole show and it took people weeks to catch on. morons.

[@WeMissDimebag]

Conversely, if it takes 3 or 4 watches for a viewer to come away with a clear takeaway of your creation, you’re either purposefully obfuscating or you’re poorly communicating your message.

[@malikneille]

Yikes it shouldn’t take y’all 4-5 watches to understand. Perhaps this show is just 6’ and y’all are 5’11”. Corps should never water down their product otherwise we’ll be starved of what the corps actual potential is.

[@benkessler4439]

@@malikneille Yeesh man, I get you marched BD and all but being toxic is not the way to go about this. Just because someone doesn’t quite get a more complex concept doesn’t mean you insult their intelligence. Think about the influence you have before you say that stuff.

[@adynmoehring112]

that predictions post i got the bd and crusaders show right ;)

[@NifesTheCat]

BD should take people trying to stir up false controversy as a compliment. Their performance was infallible to the point where people can't find valid criticism, or are not educated enough to do so. I hope folks watching these videos would know that as DCI alum, with BD or otherwise, y'all would be the first to point out any serious flaws in a show.

[@dfa3366]

You had 4 corps in the 98 range and SCV in high 97. Plus you had them spread out within a point. Your picks were nothing surprising but your scores were way over inflated.

[@steamedbryce]

4:42 I think this is just like 2010 in that if the season was just one week longer Bluecoats would've placed 1st, compared to Cavaliers in '10.

[@ophs1980]

I would to see the odds on 2 corps tying for 2nd, for 2 nights in a row.

[@mdplez]

E: "I'm not here to berate the children." 🤣🤣🤣 So much shade! I love it. The children actually need to be berated, especially when they throw unwarranted temper tantrums.

[@davewroberts]

Right, that BD show is much more impressive in person...and if you watch BD's final 24 hours documentary on their channel, you can't say it's emotionless.

[@theunknowndrummer1209]

I went to dci finals, and the reason I’ve been at I bd this years is just because watching bd made me feel, arrogance. They knew they won, and they knew they were getting another run for the victory run. As compared to to bluecoats or even troopers where everything was on the field. And again I’ve seen all the shows in person. Blue devils felt arrogant to me. That’s pretty much all I have to say. Oh yeah, I also noticed the blue stars guard was cleaner

[@samsignorelli]

The difference between arrogance and confidence is that confidence means you can back it up.

[@funlinerproductions7071]

I think this “arrogance” you speak of has a lot to do with an almost mythical perception of BD that’s perpetuated by social media. Yes definitely in the past BD created a reputation of arrogance by wearing rings during shows and whatnot. But I know for a fact that the 2022 blue devils went out on that field with nothing but confidence and commitment and they 100% left everything out there. I can tell you from my experience in BD in 2017, even on finals night I did not ever think “I know I’m gonna win” even though we also had an undefeated season. I went out there and did my job and we were definitely not thinking about a victory run at that moment. If you felt “arrogance” from the corps that’s your perception but I do think you’re projecting. - Everett

[@samsignorelli]

@@funlinerproductions7071 To quote Ta;king Heads "Same as it ever was."

[@theunknowndrummer1209]

@@funlinerproductions7071 and I will say that’s one hundred percent a fair point. I’ve always had a grudge against BD, but never against the performers. I think the performance pool that BD has is frankly a step above everyone else, they truly compete on a level above even world class. But, my problem with it is the show design doesn’t back that up. I love everyone that marches anywhere, but when it’s finals night and your holding over a point above second place, Its hard to not think you’re already across the finish line, I did the same thing at state in high school band (not an adequate enough comparison I know but it’s the closest I can come). And this year has been an awakening for me. Now that I’m actively in the activity, marching on the same fields as everyone, I do appreciate everyone’s efforts a lot more now than I did watching from the comfort of my room. I hold nothing against any performer, but I do see flaws. Hopefully this Clears up my stance a bit

[@bradynhughes]

I did not agree personally with troopers in finals. I thought the crossmen looked and sounded a lot better. This is just my opinion, and I’m open to discussion

[@turkishdelight6032]

Drum corps fans have gotten really toxic. Constructive criticism is fine, but now we see seemingly younger audiences acting like traditional sports fans who only cheer on one team, and older fans who vehemently trash the costumes and choreography. Great to hear a professional perspective from vets like you guys

[@theoparlin8068]

To say that BD is emotionless is so dumb. That moonriver ballad brought tears to my eyes on semis.

[@steamedbryce]

Saying that GE is "when the crowd gets excited" is one of the most uninformed statements I've heard about DCI. No one knows what GE truly is. Judges have their own definitions and interpretations but they're just that. There isn't one definition and there isn't one way to write and thus win the GE caption.

[@benvitomilostudios4238]

It is also true that blue devils historically are the best. They have the most wins and whatnot

[@chromathederg]

A lot of the things that I've heard about blue devils that's negative could easily be said about other corps, the biggest one I hear in my band program is "they were trying to recreate metamorph" but if that is the case then what about vanguard? By that logic they were trying to recreate Babylon. I'm not the biggest bd fan but I hate how much hate they are getting. No matter who I liked most, those members put in an extreme amount of work, and deserved the win and getting to perform on the same field as them 3 times through the seasons even tho we aren't even close to being in their competitive bracket was an honor, they earned that win.

[@pickletm3336]

At the end of the day... Kudos to Boston, first silver and highest score in corps history. I forsee great things for them in the decade to come. I think it might have been Malik that said in a previous video, but I feel boston could def benefit from a tougher book.

[@SamuelmMorales]

8:49 it’s because it is

[@kotlingoddess]

First bro

[@tacos8910]

I think my complaint is the BD show this year is mid to other BD shows. Talent, executiom, and moments are all there but I think the demand of this show is definitely less than years like 15-19. But then again expecting pre pandemic levels of shows is unreasonable of me

[@luisbolus1917]

Woosh

[@bi0nic_chaos240]

The Blue Devils bias thing doesn't make any sense because two of them were Bluecoats before they were Blue Devils

[@bi0nic_chaos240]

And I don't understand why people hate any corps because they undermine the talent possessed by the performers. I just love everything about DCI

[@XtremeSportX247]

💙😈💙😈💙😈💙😈💙😈💙😈💙😈🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 Fans say the same thing about Golden State Warriors and Tom Brady. Anytime you have someone who dominates the activity and who masters the craft, the other people or other fans will find ways to discredit and demonize their talent. What I do know is that the Blue Devils make what they look so easy that it looks simple to many. Which is the same thing other athletes and sports critics say bout Tom Brady and Golden State Warriors. There is so much talent and details to what BD present. When you are that good you make the impossible look possible so they think it's too easy. I enjoy that BD still look n sound like BD while still being creative n innovation. They still wear blue lol.. 💙 they're consistent most of their designers and key staff are from the '80s. They don't flip flop every other year like other corps they are consistent with their craft and understand what to improve it year to year.

[@wsuf7025]

BOSTON SHOULDVE WON!!

[@josephgraziano2139]

BD music was perfectly performed but it seemed easier than some of the other corps scores. BD doesn’t

[@josephgraziano2139]

BD always plays harder music while standing still. While I don’t necessarily disagree with the results I don’t think they should have won GE