Battlestar Galactica 3x5 Reaction | Collaborators

#bsg #battlestargalactica
0:00 Opening
7:14 Reaction
24:44 Review and Commentary
Editing and Visual Elements: Xander What
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[@jplace524]

From Tigh's perspective, he had to kill his wife because she committed treason. It must be hard to see other people he sees as traitors go free. It feels unjust.

[@crapface911]

thats actually a pretty good take

[@mijmijrm]

that's the problem with righteousness .. anyone who doesn't share your view is evil.

[@Trifler500]

26:58 - "I get that all of these people are hurting, and I get that they're all broken, and that they've lost people, and been through these traumas" Which is exactly why they should not be the people doling out punishment.

[@TheGoddamnBacon]

Fair. But to ask the question, who should be? Even the remainders on the fleet can't exactly be partial.

[@Trifler500]

@@TheGoddamnBacon Which is probably why Roslyn ended up deciding to pardon everyone. However, if I had to choose, I would pick people who were not on New Caprica. But it would be an official court, with testimony from both sides, etc.

[@l33tspaniard]

Imagine telling past you that you’d be fighting for Gaeta’s innocence someday

[@funnylilgalreacts]

It’s not lost on me at all 😂

[@colormedubious4747]

@@funnylilgalreacts The actor is an amazing singer. You might hear it for yourself some day.

[@Educated2Extinction]

@@funnylilgalreacts You are to be commended for willing to be wrong in front of so many, who just had to be wrong in front of a few.

[@neutchain7838]

Agreed. This show has the tendency to pick random side characters and develop them so well. Some of these 'side chsracters' will have so many layers a d so much depth by the end of the show that it will put other shows and movies to shame by a very wide margin.

[@necrosunderground]

@@colormedubious4747 *slow inhale*

[@jabberwock95]

The scenes where Anders leaves and Starbuck is "recruited" says so much. They don't want people who are objective. It's not a "circle of your peers". Anyone who opposes the murders wouldn't be on the circle in the first place.

[@talonkarrde9904]

Yeah, and three of the people on the circle are the most traumatized characters as a result of the occupation.

[@jerodast]

The whole thing is impressively realistic while making it laughably obvious about how flawed this form of "justice" is. The self-selecting jury, the rush to judgement, everyone having a different standard of guilt, the scant "evidence", the lack of transparency or public accountability, the blatant fact that each juror is motivated by a slightly different mix of hurt, anger and vengeance. And I relate to all of them. Except Zarek :P Great episode.

[@livetotell100]

"Maybe you can help me with something. I seem to be missing something. Do you know where my eye is?" I always thought that was a powerful scene. It shows how angry and messed up Tigh is.

[@mijmijrm]

- the correct reply would have been: "your wife has it".

[@TheGoddamnBacon]

​@@mijmijrmhot damn. Cold blooded.

[@icarus_falling]

Gaeta has an interesting storyline it has to be said.

[@pjsebadoh5412]

Copy that!!!

[@tofton1977]

One of the sadest too! (and that all thanks to Starfuck!).

[@Niven110]

@@tofton1977no spoilers

[@tofton1977]

@@Niven110 It's not a spoiler, i talk about what she do to Gaeta in this episode, she almost airlock the guy into space just so she could feel better about herself!

[@riffgroove]

And it gets better.

[@jakerydont]

12:38 Cylon Sex Chamber was the name of my band in high school

[@IkeThe9th]

In Season 2, when the Centurions infiltrated Galactica we found Jammer hiding in the weapons locker. He joined the Caprica Police, that all volunteer, but Cylon created bounty hunter group, to capture or kill civilians at the behest of the Cylons. Jammer’s redemption never actually happened. He was intentionally written as a weak character without scruples, informed ethics, or moral compass. I think he saved Callie, a friend - but not Roslin, Zarek or the others - out of personal guilt, but not moral responsibility. It is admittedly sad and ironic that he dies unjustly at the hands of another “secret” mob, dispensing justice in the shadows. I would compare & contrast Jammer with Gaius Balter for an interesting Book Club discussion.

[@JVDAWG1]

He is shown to have more of a moral compass in the webisodes The Resistance where he opposes the other resistance members getting civilians killed.

[@arthurwigglesby8590]

Couple of things you may find interesting with this one: 1. Early drafts of the script had the episode opening with Gaeta's execution. His being the informant was discovered afterward and was going to be what led Anders and Tyrol to questioning everything. The episode's writer had second thoughts and decided Gaeta would serve the story better if he was alive, so Jammer got spaced instead. 2. Speaking of Jammer, his and Duck's roles were originally reversed for the New Caprica arc. It was Aaron Douglas (Chief) who pointed out to the writers that Jammer was an established coward who had already expressed an "every man for himself" mindset, and Duck was the Cylon-hating Viper pilot. The writers agreed and swapped them in the story. So in an alternate show, we may have seen Duck buy it here instead. 3. Connor is played by Ryan Robbins. He was actually the Armistice officer at the start of the miniseries. They were going to open the MS with a montage of this same officer going to the station year after year for decades, leading up to Six showing up and the Cylons blowing it up. They gradually caked him with makeup and prosthetics to show the character aging. But they ended up cutting out all but the last bit where he's fully aged up and dies. Since he was largely unrecognizable and they liked the actor, they took the opportunity to use him again when the role of Connor was created.

[@MartinWWalker]

Nice one. I did not know any of that. Is it in the Extras somewhere?

[@colinloves]

Ryan Robbins. :) The actor that appears in every show I used to watch around that time. His had some great roles. But this one, not so much.

[@poogie_]

I love all this back story information. I had read somewhere (so it might just be a rumour but I thought I read it in an article) that Aaron Douglas was the one that named a lot of his crew. I think they had generic role titles and he gave the characters names. What you said about Ryan Robbins reminds me of James Jordan from _Veronica Mars_ . He played one character and then came back to play another later on. I really like him.

[@arthurwigglesby8590]

@@poogie_ You're right, it was in "Kobol's Last Gleaming" in season one. He came up with the names Tarn and Seelix, as the characters were unnamed in the script. He kept inserting the names into every take and they stuck. The writers/directors were very collaborative (many of the actors have said that they have rarely seen this on other sets), to where they were able to improvise and ad-lib within reason once they had a few solid takes as scripted.

[@willie3262]

Speaking of Connor’s son and the Armistice Station officer, what ever happened to Boxey???

[@knoxminis1211]

Episodes like this are why this shows is so great. It's not easy to watch a lot of it because it feels real and is how people might actually behave after such events.

[@efremvercaigne7265]

14:26 "He has really shown that he's changed quite a bit." Everyone who knows how the episode ends: "About that..." :D

[@ray24051]

They could have gave Jammer a trial and thrown him in the brig afterwards, Adama would have never agreed to this.

[@michaausleipzig]

It's always triking to me how much Galactica has changed from season 2 to season 3. First on the outside of course. She took such a beating during the blattle of New Caprica and she will carry the scars she got that day for the rest of the show. And she will wear them with pride. But also on the inside. Before, Galactica was a purely military ship. Remember how civilians were checked when they came on board in season 1 and how they even increased security after the Dorrel incident? Later a film crew was given unique access to something civilians never got to see first hand. And after Pegasus arrived she was just one of two ships run that way. In something that felt a bit like the Colonial Fleet again Galactica and Pegasus were military ships, civilians travelled on the others. That's changed now. From now on, there's a constant civilian presence on overcrowded Galactica and the ship starts to feel very different. Sure, the CIC and other sensitive areas are presumably off limits but people simply looking for a place to sleep will set up camp in whatever unsused storage space they can find. And they'll make these spaces their own. Galactica is their ship now just as much as it is Starbuck's for example.

[@fasstaerke]

the great thing about zarek is: in these TV shows we tend to think that everyone can change completely und become a purely good guy. it happens soooo often, we all know these stories. but its not how the world works, bad people usually dont change, ever, some do, but not the majority. bad people stay bad. zarek one of the best written characters on a tv show and his story is not even over

[@darthmuppet]

This episode is the perfect representation of what I love the most about this show… its willingness to show that even the best people(Chief) are still messy, complicated creatures who are capable of making really awful choices.

[@riffgroove]

Oh, the irony

[@darthmuppet]

@@riffgroove SPOILER WARNING just in case: Yeah, I had to be VERY careful with how I worded my post due to the ironic thing you’re referring to. 😅

[@j3pelfrey]

Especially when put under strain and pushed to the brink. I remember every time that Rosalyn would adjust the number of survivors on her whiteboard what a perfect metaphor for the amount of strain on these people.

[@DaveOwen-vn6ie]

Another strong powerful and emotional episode! Tigh & Starbuck are so so broken at this point in the story! Tyrrol came to Gaeta's rescue just in the nick of time! One of the many favourite episodes of this amazing show

[@Drewe223]

Zarek hasn’t really changed, whether you agree or disagree with him he is a man of principals and he makes decisions around those principals.

[@c1ph3rpunk]

For a show about things that aren’t human, they sure put on a display of pure humanism. Greed. Anger. Revenge. Hatred. Love. Caring. Hope.

[@michaausleipzig]

Much has happened in these 16 months. We are going to have to deal with the aftermath for some time...

[@christipton9494]

So so happy when I see your BSG reaction drop.... I love watching this though your eyes..

[@CrazyChemistPL]

And now you have an out-of the universe reason for Pegasus' destruction - they needed to free up some sets to rebuild them as Basestar interiors.

[@davebeattie9573]

There are eight numbered Cylons. Seven have been identified which leaves one unaccounted for. These are, One - Cavil Two - Leoben Three - D'anna Four - Simon Five - Doral Six - All have unique names Seven - Not indentified yet Eight - Sharon We have been led to believe there are twelve models, so that is five more to identify, if you believe that what Caprica SIx told Gaius is accurate? The loss of Pegasus and not Galactica. You say that you knew that we wouldn't lose Galactica because it's the title of the show ( 4:48 ). Sounds like you need to start watching some UK shows. Plenty of UK shows have lost their titular character and still continued under the same name. An example being Blake's 7. Four seasons, thirteen episodes per season, so fifty-two episodes in total. Rog Blake (the Blake in Blake's 7) was written out after the seacond season, making just two more appearances in the show, including the final episode of the series, where he, and pretty much everyone else gets killed off. The hero ship, the Liberator, was destroyed at the end of season three, and replaced with the Scorpio in season four. President Zarek. Zarek was Baltar's running mate in the election, and therefore became Vice President under the Baltar Administration, and therefore after the Second Exodus, he became President. This is similar to how Roslin became the President in the mini series, except he was next in line rather than forty-seventh in line. The Circle. As for his execution policies, they are actually based on real world examples. After WWII, those who collaborated with the occupying forces were rounded up, given mock trials (if they were really lucky), and summarily executed. The only evidence needed to convict was the word of a resistance fighter. Zarek's Circle, by comparison is quite ethical, in that it requires six unanimous votes. Any of the members can simply decide to vote not guilty, and hence no execution. So you can blame Sam for nearly putting Gaeta out the airlock. He could have vote not guilty, but instead walked out. Personally I have no problem with it. They have a list of names, and their offences. They can then find guilty or not guilty. If guilty then there is a signed execution order, but if not guilty, then no exection. There is no legal loop holes to be exploited. Example. When I served in the British army I was brought up on a charge. When my CO read out my number, rank and name from the charge sheet asking me to confirm that it was me, I replied "No SIr" and then give him my correct service number. Whoever had filled out the charge sheet had swapped two of the digits in my number, therefore I was not the perosn on the charge sheet, and as a result got off with the offnece. Gaeta (AKA number Seven?) Gaeta is still a Cylon and needs to be shot, or tossed out of a launch tube, or both. Again rewatch the mini series for the proof. The device on the bottom of the Dradis console appears after the first Cylon attack but Gaeta says that it's been there for about a week, meaning that according to him, it was there before the Cylons returned to the Colonies in force. As for why he was helping the resistance on New Caprica? Simple. Many of the Cylons didn't want to live in peace with Humans (and vice versa). By feeding intel to the Human resistance he helped them attack the Cylons, which helped twist things to the side that just wants to exterminate all Humans. His position in Baltar's cabinet lets him feed information to both the Resistance and the Cylons. Fleet Therapists. If there are any, I don't recall them, off the top of my head. The closest I can remember was Cavil (AKA One) who talked to the Chief after he battered Cally. And let's be honest, apart from being a Cylon, what he said to the Chief made a lot of sense. SO does the Chief take the lessons that Cavil imparted to him, or reject them because they came from a Cylon. Stones and Pounds. ! Stone is equal to 14 pounds. Both Adamas are professional military and they have expected mimimum fitness levels. William Adama is reminding Lee Adama of that fact when he says "keep jumping". William Adama needs to enforce discipline and basic standards. He can't go easy on his kid. He needs to be hard on him so others won't see a lack of parity in how he deals with his kid and others who serve under him. Gaius and the Cylons. Gaius' pills are recreational. He doesn't need them. As for the list of Cylons, see the first part of this comment. Also this is the first big indicator that the Cylons are begining to fracture as a culture. They function on consensus. The fact that a Three is telling Baltar that they have reached an impass, and that an entire model (the Sixes) can't decide is very telling. If I had to guess at how the vote went, I imagine that the Ones, Fours and Fives were against Gaius, with the Twos, Threes, and Eights being for him. Important note; we still have not indetified number Seven, or the remainder of the supposed twelve models. This line indicates that there are models that aren't getting a vote.

[@Digital-Plunder]

Did anyone else ever notice Jammer was supposed to be dead already? If you go back and watch S3ep1 at the new caprica police ceremony bombing, Jammer talks to and is standing right behind the bomber when he detonates. Hard to believe he would have survived, unless I missed something or maybe a scene was cut that left a small continuity error.

[@TheAD209]

Hi, thanks for all the awesome content! A stone is 14lbs, so Lee lost 7lbs (just over 3kg)

[@StumpyTales]

Its always a little bit bonkers to see Imperial measurement weirdness used in futuristic shows and movies instead of metric (especially when they use metric in other parts of the show).

[@jerodast]

Great, so it's either Stones or Kilos, BOTH measurements most of Sci-Fi's audience doesn't understand 😁@@StumpyTales

[@PassiveSmoking]

Normally I'd agree that they need counselling, but in this show the last person who sought out counselling ended up spilling his guts to a Cylon!

[@jerodast]

I may be wrong but I believe the number of therapists on the entire series is zero, which is absolutely hilarious when you think about the emotional tone of the show. It's pretty telling about their society that the guy needing to talk to someone was given a priest. Also maybe ties in with the fact their medical technology seems pretty basic for a spacefaring society.

[@gordongoblin]

In fairness, that cylon nailed it though

[@TroyConvers5000]

Takes one to know one.😂

[@MatthewStephensAU]

Everyone here saying that Zarek is right? Please remember that Zarek spent all of S1/2 ranting about 'abuse of power' and 'total dictatorships' on behalf of Roslin/Adama. And now that he's in office, he's ordering secret tribunals and execution squads.

[@MrEzuli]

It is like some people do not have morals, they just want to hurt the "correct" people. Vigilante justice after revolutions will always do more damage than it corrects. People really should read some history, especially personal accounts and not just some vague numbers from wikipedia articles.

[@LadyBeyondTheWall]

This show can bring out some people's true feelings on certain things that can make my skin crawl just thinking how many people also must be out there who think some of this stuff is just a-okay. And I mean people who actually agree with this stuff, not just "I want it to happen in the show because it's entertaining" kind of "agreeing with" but people who literally argue about some of these things being "good" or "just" or "acceptable. THIS is one of those things. Another big one being the people who totally, 100% agreed with Roslin cheating in the election because "Baltar wouldn't be a good President" - and again, not because "haha its tv" but the people who've argued with me that it's TOTALLY FINE to rig an election if you think the President will be a bad one. My god... that one just kills me. I've heard that one from way wayyyy too many people for my liking, along with all the people who say that about real-life elections. I've heard many times in real life that people should rig an election because a candidate is "dangerous", "bad", etc. It's honestly disturbing to think about sometimes. People don't seem to want to admit to saying that AFTER an election, but beforehand? It's everywhere.

[@jerodast]

There are times that government is corrupt or powerless and the only way to get justice is extralegal. Just look at any revolution in history you thought was righteous. But...Zarek is IN POWER. There is no fundamentally no reason he needed to proceed this way rather than a bona fide series of trials. Then you have the incredibly sloppy process, which tends to happen in rushed secrecy, which almost resulted in executing one of the most valuable agents the Colonials had during the occupation.

[@barryf7253]

Secret police, star chambers.... even with the best of intentions these things are dangerous as hell.

[@colinloves]

"Have you seen my eye!!" Once again, stella acting by the great Michael Hogan, esp with his interaction with Adama

[@christopherwatters6813]

Another great reaction video, Angela! I love this show so much for the flawed characters and the grey area that the characters often find themselves in- great human drama. I also loved your reaction to Exodus part 2. The look on your face when Galactica was dropping above New Caprica was the greatest moment I've ever seen in a reaction video. You made me laugh and cry at the same time. I figured you would love the episode but your reaction was priceless! Your videos rock!

[@richardtaylor1652]

Devil's advocate here but in this case, I actually agree with Zarek. The trials allow justice to be done to select people. It is a pressure release value for the Fleet. Without it, it would consume the Fleet in an orgy of uncontrolled vengeance and trials which would make it public, putting further fuel on the fire. New Caprica was a very dark and depressing period in the Fleet's history. If anything, this episode shows just how damaging that planet was to everyone.

[@flatcat6676]

This is one of my favorite episodes of the entire series. It deals with so much. You have to ask - if you didn't know and like Jammer & Gaeta would you have had such a strong emotional reaction to their "trials" and executions? Or near execution in Gaeta's case? Do a few good actions and good intentions outweigh being party to the murder of innocents? What is justice in situations like this? It's this kind of thing that always had me hooked on this show when it first ran, and that is a huge part of the rewatchability of the show now 20 years after the mini-series first premiered.

[@jerodast]

Did anyone really like Jammer? It was solid to contrast the two and highlight that BOTH were unjust, although handy they "caught themselves" before killing the likeable one but not the other one.

[@johnbarleycorn_]

Ryan Robbins, who played Connor, also played the officer sitting waiting in the Armistice Station right back at the start of the mini-series.

[@TheGoddamnBacon]

Somehow I never knew this, but now I can't unsee it. Thanks man.

[@Foxwoodpictures]

That is one of the most hardcore cold opens....

[@Mannchini]

"I'm up for killing whoever needs killing, but it isn't going to make you feel better" - Amon Burton, Murder Snuggles.

[@StarlancerAstro]

I watch for the reaction and recap of my favorite TV series, but gotta say that eye shadow looks good!

[@shanenolan5625]

I suspect they are anti anxiety or sleeping pills. Something to give him a pleasant buzz. He was taking pills on colonial one . When the cylons came . On other occasions we see other characters drinking and taking pills. Like that . ( if memory serves adama on a couple of occasions)

[@mabutoo]

Starbuck guards her heart. The issue with Casey has put her in a dark place. She wants to lose that pain anyway she can on anyone she can. I had a law professor who’s first words resonated with me in situations like this. Never mistake revenge for justice.

[@eglantinepapeau1582]

i love your leaf pillow ❤!

[@krondarr8865]

This episode parallels history. There were a lot of collaborators that were punished in Europe after WW2 and a lot of German soldiers just said "They were just following orders" (Gaius). So keep in mind you might not like what they were doing to Jammer and the others but it was, in their mind, legal since it was a presidential (Zarek) directive. He was the rightful president at the time of the trials.

[@Icypenguigo]

Michael Hogan is yet another fantastic actor, and Tigh is definitely one of the breakout characters on this show from here on out.

[@jerodast]

It was just his right eye holding him back that whole time!

[@vadagget]

Lucy Lawless discusses a humorous incident during James Callis' nude scene: iF: "I interviewed James Callis awhile back and he said you had an interesting reaction to his public nudity?" Lucy Lawless: "He was standing there, and I walked in. He was standing there holding his genitalia and the camera was on us, so it might’ve been on his back, I don’t recall. It was over the shoulder on us, and at some point he took his hand away and fluttered his hands in the air. I just about had a heart attack! [Laughs] I’ve never seen a naked man on a set ever, or a woman for that matter. It didn’t used to happen in syndication. I do have to say, “well done there, man! Congratulations! Masel Tov James!” [Laughs] For somebody who considers themselves pretty fast on their feet generally I was gobsmacked, I couldn’t continue the scene. I think it was the only time ever that I have had to walk away from a scene because I was just flummoxed." iF: "Well it didn’t sound like you were alone, he said one of the techies walked into a wall?" Lawless: "It was envy. [Laughs] It was complete envy."

[@amazonwarlord]

SPOILER FREE: The BEST show, ever. EVER. So many consequences.such deep, human issues. Did you know there was a special session of the United Nations devoted to BSG because of the issues it tackled. And there is so much more to come. Helo has some interesting choices in a few episodes coming up. I wear K. Agathon dog tags to remind myself to stand up for what I believe in regardless of the cost. The best show of all time. Yes, Better Call Saul, arguably, was actually better in the craft, but BSG hits so hard, so often it takes top prize for me still. And the craft here is also so very high. Masterwork! Not flawless, but nothing bold and interesting ever is flawless.

[@plothole181]

I've always interpreted Starbuck suddenly demanding that Gaeta beg being her trying to get him to advocate for himself without actually advocating for him. It felt like she was having second thoughts, but was still too angry to actually actively call off the execution. Something about the look on her face right before she starts berating him and she had actually heard his argument which might sound legit. She wouldn't know since she wasn't there for most of the resistance stuff.

[@FuturePrimitive2]

I had a different interpretation of Starbucks outburst towards Gaeta in the launch tube, I like to think part of her believed Gaeta's story about the drops, she wanted him to repeat it on the off chance somebody could verify it.

[@chetjonstun3112]

Pity they couldn't have a team of Brother Cavil's to help their PTSD.

[@pjsebadoh5412]

😂 Everyone would just space/airlock themselves

[@jerodast]

I do want to know what his long game was with the Chief! Talk him into killing himself or someone else somehow? From the brief amount we saw, his style was unconventional but overall seemed helpful? @@pjsebadoh5412

[@ewplayer3]

Can’t wait for next week. The next episode has one of the 3 greatest speech scenes in the series. It’s a jaw dropper.

[@kalifstorch25]

Hugs sometimes solve problems.

[@johnow7]

Zarek is cut from the same cloth as Marco Inaros. No matter what he does that comes off as being a champion for the people and of justice, it is all about him and power.

[@Snapper314]

Jammer wasn't trying to help. He was a sympathizer who decided to work with the enemy, because that was easier at the time. His motivation was very different Gaeta's, who actually did want to try and help protect people as best he could, from within the enemies camp.

[@bustedsim]

Ehh, not exactly according to the webisodes. He started as part of the resistnce, but was unhappy with how cavalier Tigh and the others were with endangering civilian lives. He didn't like the Cylons either, but a Doral planted the seeds of cooperation in his head, enough so that when the resistance potentially put the hospital at risk, he decided to join the NCPD to try a more peaceful solution. Obviously it didn't work out that way, he got in over his head, made bad calls and became a lackey. But IMO he was never a "sympathizer" just a poor dumb kid who's world view got confused and was taken advantage of to the point he became the Cylons murderer.

[@IkeThe9th]

@bustedsim “…became a lackey” / “…world view got confused” / “…became the Cylons murderer.” Sympathizer. That’s pretty much what @Snapper314 said without all the irrelevant webisode stuff. You just added more background into why he became a Cylon sympathizer. Sympathizer is a more generous word than traitor, sellout, turncoat, counter-insurgent or murderer. His motivation - as you both said - was different than Gaeta’s.

[@AngeloBarovierSD]

⁠@@bustedsimAyyyup! And it’s all based on accounts of collaborators in various conflicts, especially WWII. We most often hear/see things based on the occupation and liberation of France but the dilemma of what to do with (and distinction between) cooperators and collaborators was true of all Nazi-occupied nations. Who only did what they to ameliorate or even to just survive, who did it because they were opportunistic and selfish, and who did it because they believed in the occupiers’ cause? And, once a country is returned to its people, who decides what to do with those who worked for the enemy?

[@Brendissimo1]

Regardless of his motivations, joining a Cylon-created police force which was quickly involved in numerous atrocities shortly after being created is absolutely something you could prosecute him for.... in a public documented trial where he's allowed to have counsel present and where evidence has to actually be presented and scrutinized. The problem here is the secrecy and lack of due process. And just hastily disappearing people and executing them.

[@choosecarefully408]

@@bustedsim That needed to be referred to here. There are too many people - over 99% of people who still don't see the hypocrisy of these six even at the end of this episode. The hypocrisy began _with_ the resistance. They killed humans forever to do some symbolic non-harms to people they disliked. For what? Blowing up hospitals is _not_ treason? Amazing how people won't ask the questions they're not forced to, eh? Hail Hydrah.

[@maspleben]

I think it's a good time to tell you: Gaeta is my favourite character in the whole show. It is starting here... Would love to know if others who have seen the show think the same? Without spoilers?

[@rajwahi7387]

Mine too!

[@maddyc2412]

Definitely mine too

[@Trifler500]

You might be interested to know that in the original show, Adama was a member of the Quorum of Twelve.

[@baron7755]

Zerek was Vice President under Baltar

[@bryanreynolds8721]

Starbuck is such a complex and awesome character but toxic is also a good way to describe her. The way she deals with trauma is unhealthy to say the least. I have always loved how this show deals with complex issues like suicide bombings and how the fleet dealt with traitors after the second exodus. It really made the audience consider issues they probably will never have to personally deal with in real life but realizing some people do.

[@jerodast]

Her tone saying "I just want to hurt someone and it might as well be you" has always stuck with me. Actually surprisingly self-aware for Starbuck haha.

[@LauraSilverlief1]

A tough thing to swallow is that everything Zarek said about having an open trial is correct. I think that part of the reason that Roslin pardoned everyone is because of what he told her. I'm not justifying his actions regarding the Star Chamber justice, but he can be annoyingly correct.

[@AaronMT]

I just discovered your channel. This has been fun to follow along as I've been rewatching the series too. I'm also on Season 3 now.

[@jennym2276]

They used to have brother Cavil they could get counsel from

[@neutchain7838]

This is a beautiful episode. Literally nothing happens, 0 action just people talk. The writing is amazing and the acting is impeccable. They spend time dealing with the aftermath of the occupation. If you honestly look at each character's story before the occupation, add what happened to them during, you will understand and not at all surprised to see where they are now. In fact it makes perfect sense. It's so nicely done, adds further depth to the characters and this will be the foundation for their actions going forward from here. Without those, none of that would work. This episode would be considered a filler nowadays....idk about you guys but I would be happy to take a few seasons of filler like this. I always had a huge respect for this show when they wrote themselves into a situation like this occupation that presented an opportunity for them to 1. don't even go near it, ignore most of what happened and just continue the story, or 2. go deep and dark, explore this tragedy from different POVs and not shy away from being disturbing or uncomfortable to watch. In fact they use it to help telling further stories as a direct result of it. Not one time did I feel about characters or stories that they didn't make sense or not undestanding how did we get here. Genuinely feel sorry for the people sleeping on this show.

[@xanthespace5141]

After triumph and joy of liberation from enemy forces, no matter who the enemy is, this aspect always comes up, logically During WW2, the French had a wave of executions, arrests and public humilations before the provisional government was properly instituted. I remember seeing a photo of a French woman, shaved, paraded down a street as a traitor for...having provided services to the Germans. The Norwegians hanged Quisling. Actually basically all of the liberated countries executed and imprisoned people. And the pursuit of collaborators never stopped. For example, in 1987 the US deported an Estonian Holocaust participant to the USSR. There are still commandants and guards of Nazi concentration camps getting put on trial in Europe. Germany sentenced one a couple years ago, even though he's like over 90 years old And we see that with recent or current conflicts. In Afghanistan in 2021 the Taliban targeting translators who helped NATO forces. In Ukraine, those who helped the Russians (and the war isn't over yet). I'm not sure if it's surprise that I feel seeing your reaction to this episode. Yeah, sucks for Jammer, but it's not like everyone'd be okay with his association with the Cylons

[@Brendissimo1]

Yes, but there is a clear difference between ad hoc reprisals conducted by local resistance cells (illegitimate) and organized war crimes trials conducted in the public view and according to agreed upon standards (legitimate). The core of this episode is about vigilantism, and vigilantism is all about the absence of the rule of law and public scrutiny. It's not punishing these people that's so wrong, its the secrecy, lack of due process, and lack of public scrutiny.

[@jerodast]

@@Brendissimo1 Absolutely. Supporting Zarek's plan is utterly missing the point of these historical examples, which were PUBLIC. Really don't get these people saying this was the way for "the fleet to vent their anger" when the fleet didn't even know about it! Really don't get the people agreeing with Zarek (and Roslin's) aversion to trials for crimes. Trials and deliberative, regulated justice are WHY those holocaust perpetrators were still being sentenced in their 90s. They work.

[@robertjames8220]

Star Chambers have had many permutations in several countries since the first recorded existence of one in England in the late 1300's. Although these "courts" -- which frequently operated outside official channels and were sometimes used to prosecute and punish the too-powerful, and others to act as a kangaroo court to the benefit of the Crown -- originally began with official sanction, the modern term usually refers to a "shadow court" system. In post-WWII Europe, there were many accused of collaboration that were killed by citizens eager for revenge and "justice", often (perhaps usually) without due process. This kind of behavior is best understood as a trauma response, where people who cannot otherwise relieve their feelings of betrayal by collaborators decide that only blood will do. And they're almost always wrong. These characters have just been savaged by what they've been through. Jammer's execution was literally on "the 3rd day of the Second Exodus". They were on the run for years, then conquered and brutally occupied, then ran for their lives losing more people. They are literally right back where they were immediately after the loss of the Colonies. And not a PTSD treatment program in sight. I frankly would have been shocked if there HADN'T been this court.

[@Sgtshadist]

Getting closer and closer to my favorite song Bear made for the show. To this day its my ring tone. And no, everyone who had seen the entire series it's not THAT song. The one I speak of comes from episode 9 of this season. I'm enjoying your watching this as it's a touch back to seeing it all for myself that first time. Thank you.

[@kerry-j4m]

I LIKE this episode,this subject needed to be addressed,after all this isn't TNG. LOL.The president pardoning all collaborators was-WISE-and necessary,just like Lincoln pardoning the South ( the people running the government,soldiers,etc,etc,. ) he knew the US needed to be whole again and that was the best to do that. Forgiveness breeds unity.

[@wemustdissent]

Very much looking forward to the next episode reaction. Won't give spoilers but lets say with a human on a basestar the show starts to give more of the Cylon cultural perspective that is pretty interesting to see. Also guessing you have probably already watched it by now as video editing takes time.

[@timmooney7528]

In British Imperial measure, a stone =14 pounds. The stone continues in customary use in the United Kingdom for body weight.

[@maddyc2412]

That still means nothing to most of the world who use kilograms 😂

[@timmooney7528]

@@maddyc2412 Most Americans don't know the metric system or old British Imperial measurements.

[@Daniel-jg1uk]

Tigh, Starbuck and likely most of the others are PTSD'd out of their skulls at this point, courtesy of the occupation and their time in the Resistance. It's most visible in Tigh and Starbuck, the self-isolation, the restlessness, the constant anger. For them, the war just hasn't ended. They wouldn't talk to any counselor even if any were available, they would only ever confide in those "who have been there". If you're interested, read up on trauma psychologist Bessel van der Kolk, who worked with a lot of veterans. As for Tom Zarek, he was some sort of insurgent in his youth, probably knew about the effects of trauma and why this needed to go on or it would find some other outlet. He also probably knew he'd have to bear the guilt of signing off on it so Roslin could take over with clean hands and the fleet could have a future again. Cynical as this may sound, he took one for the team.

[@BrentAgeofGrogu]

Yeah this was a really dark episode, it had to be done to forward the story and close the situation of what was going on, on New Caprica, the more interesting thing was that in the original BSG from the late 70's was that the Baltar who existed in that series was pure just evil betrayed the Humans and lived on the Cylon Base Stars, so its cool we get to see what goes on here with Baltar and the time on the Cylon Ship. cool reaction thanks again for it. PS as for the pills that D'Anna gave to Gauis i think they were intoxication medication (for the hang over, he was a heavy drinker while been in charge of the Colonys)

[@Ugnutz]

That's the thing about collaborators after every war in history they have always been treated harshly like after WW2 usually just put up against a wall and shot

[@ferdnerkel]

Ya didnt catch the missing eye patch on Tigh in the baltar dream. 😂😂😂

[@MrHws5mp]

If you're not familiar, you should look up the treatment of collaborators in European countries after they were liberated from the Nazis at the end of WWII. Executions, imprisonments, public humiliations. Some of them were just ordinary women who hooked up with ordinary German soldiers, either through genuine love or just to get a bit more food.

[@guyvaderproductions8882]

Jammer deserved 100% of the spacing.

[@wilgarcia1]

been enjoying your The Expanse reactions. So fun =) Is it wrong that every time you say Holden, I think Mc' Groin? I think it was Joeys stage name in a friends episode. tee hee hee

[@PhilipGilliland]

The trials may have been 'legal', but I think we had seen Sam realize that the executions were not giving him a sense of satisfaction. The Chief, in my mind, was almost there after Jammer had been killed, and he had talked to Cali after the fact. You could see the internal conflict in him. I think that if Starbuck had kept her mouth shut, Chief would have quit the six like Sam did after Gaeta would have been spaced.

[@nyghtmoon]

​@@Velanteg Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[@thelatenightbar]

Rough episode.. Jammer got spaced !! LOL

[@343guiltyreflex]

Its awful, but this is often the fate of collaborators after a liberation

[@kerry-j4m]

Yeah,this happened all over Europe when US forces liberated cities/towns from the Germans,but,US forces also did some not so great things too. Some naughty things.

[@kimleechristensen2679]

In Denmark when WW2 ended alot of collaborators got punished. In the beginning some was even executed, especially those notorious ones that was known to have committed the worst crimes, but also some of the "little fish" collaborators got sentenced with harsh punishments or death, eventhough their crimes was nowhere near, in what you would normally consider worth giving a harsh or death sentence for. But that was how vindictive the mood was in the population right after liberation, it was only later, a year or so, the mode changed and convicted collaborators was given lessor sentences, even some of the "big fish" collaborators who had evaded capture in the immediate aftermath of liberation, but captured later, got lesser sentences than some of the "little fish" got in the beginning. Lets just say it was not entirely the proudest moment in Danish justice history. 🤔🤔🤔

[@Brendissimo1]

The difference is when handled legitimately, war crimes trials are public and conducted according to a uniform agreed upon set of laws and basic legal principles, including the right to have counsel present, etc. The fact that these were conducted in secret tells you everyone involved knew it was wrong and didn't care.

[@elzar760]

Not condoning Tom’s actions, but think of it from his perspective. He’s spent most of his life using the law to attack the system. Doing something wrong, getting into the legal system, then playing the public opinion against the legal system or the legal system against itself. From his perspective, he knows that crafty people and lawyers would turn those trials into a complete sideshow and a mockery. It would have been a disaster to try and put all those people through that process. That’s Tom’s perspective because it’s what he would have done if he was on the other side of the law in this case. So really, there were two options if you didn’t want that debacle. Tom could only see the one option, which was to just get all this done without the public part. The other option is the only one Roslin had left, just pardon everyone and get rid of the problem of how to handle those people and the trials.

[@neutchain7838]

Exactly. It's a very complex character played perfectly.

[@richardtaylor1652]

To add to that, he knows what the Fleet needs is unity and cohesion. Trials, lynchings and showboating would not help the situation which is extremely precarious morally and politically. He basically sacrifices his political and morale integrity to allow some steam to be vented so the new cabinet can take over with some stability.

[@jerodast]

Huh? He literally created a lynch mob! @@richardtaylor1652

[@ProYada]

"He's a changed man, I'm sure'", oh sweet summer child.

[@romo_lampkin]

Commenting for the algo, keep on killin it

[@baron7755]

get ready to be mad many more times

[@JuanMartinezromero-k3g]

You are an adorable woman i like your channel, and battlestar galactica is my favorite tv series, congratulations and greetings from mexico. I will continue watching your reviews .UN ABRAZO.!!!

[@patsk8872]

Surprised you cut the entire little Zarek speech at the end and are against him because... I believe he was right. In their situation, imagine attempting to try hundreds of people for high crimes and treason. They couldn't. It would have been a circus, paralyzing the fleet, ending with Roslin signing death warrants and Zarek was absolutely right. Roslin didn't even dispute it, she had nothing to say and her solution was the general pardon. That's heartwarming and a "nice" solution, but a pardon doesn't mean those people aren't guilty. Some of them deserved a lot of punishment or even to be airlocked, even if Gaeta happened not to. I really liked this moment for Zarek because he had the guts to do what no one else did.

[@defiante1]

Can be argued either way if secret trials and executions were right or wrong, but he was absolutely right about witch hunts. Roslin did have no answer. It could be said that extra ordinary situation of the last humans means the pardon was the smarter option but... who can say for sure. But she knew Zarek was right about public trials and basically admitted it even if she didn't have the guts to admit so to his face.

[@JustJDx]

I do think she understands Zarek's standpoint and why collaborators need to be punished in some way, but it still needs to be done professionally and as objectively as possible. Personally I don't even have an issue with the punishment itself but the way it was done. The people executing the "traitors" were mostly driven by hate, not justice. They wanted (or rather needed) to take revenge for their suffering. To hurt those back that hurt them, directly or indirectly. Don't get me wrong, these things happen in real life as well, and I can't imagine what the occupation survivors must've endured and felt towards the human opposition. Their feelings are absolutely valid and justified. I don't condone all the inhumane acts the defectors help enable or were responsible for themselves. But I'm also not an advocate of putting people on trial without fair judgement or proper oversight. These individuals were violently abducted in secret, on their knees with a bag over their head waiting on death, dehumanized in an abandoned room, with no real way of verbally defending themselves (let alone receiving legal representation). People like Gaeta, who helped the resistance would've been killed if it wasn't for Starbuck accidentally spilling the beans right before he was suppose to be spaced. That shows this whole setup wasn't really done that well. Imo the people in the execution room weren't fit for the job because they didn't actually care to what degree someone was truly guilty. In their eyes individuals who ended up there deserved death or worse, end of story. That said, I agree Roslin didn't necessarily come forward with a better option either.

[@StevenIngram]

The thing that gets me about Tom Zerek is that on the grander scale, he's kind of a force for good. I mean, his methods tend to be terrible or subversive, but his desired outcome is usually moving the needle in the direction of good. You know? Reminds me of a song lyric... "I'm on the wrong side of heaven, but the righteous side of Hell." That's Tom.

[@StevenIngram]

PS. 1 stone = 14 lbs.

[@davidkelly4210]

​@@StevenIngramyou assume it's a 1:1. Stone could mean a pound like G-4 is C-4 and frack is... You know.

[@ChrisBrown-or8ky]

Tom Zerek is a ideologue and populist and ultimately promotes "mob rule" for self gain. He's the sort of character who'd openly promote lynching if he thought a majority of scum would vote for him. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a fascinating and charismatic character and wonderfully acted, but ultimately one of if not the most dangerous ppl in the fleet (and I include cylons in that)

[@StevenIngram]

@@ChrisBrown-or8ky Oh, I don't think he's a good person at all, I'm just saying that on a longer timeline his actions tend to benefit humanity. Like when he used a smuggling operation to evacuate people. He's clearly got his fingers in all the shady pies, but when push comes to shove he helps out with the resources he has. Those resources tend to be criminal enterprises and make him look like scum (because he kind of is) even when he uses them to the benefit of the fleet. LOL So, he can accomplish objectives... but NEVER through conventional channels and he never looks good doing it. LOL

[@StevenIngram]

​@@davidkelly4210 I don't think I'm following what you're saying. If 1:1 means all things are equal, are you saying that 1 stone = 1 lbs (1 : 1 vs. 1 : 14)? In which case, Lee's line seems ridiculous. Who brags about losing a single pound? You know?

[@doc0815martens]

As for your question at the end, I have a short essay in response for you, as the series frequently raises philosophical questions. 😉 I think there is only one answer - this is not law, and it has nothing to do with law or justice. It is vigilante justice initiated and sanctioned by an illegally acting president. Some totally biased (for lack of a better word) people who are not judges, lawyers or jurists of any kind are supposed to decide if people are guilty. The accused only find out when they are to be executed and are allowed to say a few parting words or beg for their lives. This is nothing different from what the Cylons did before. The six people, on the other hand, are accuser, judge and executioner in one and there are only two possible verdicts, acquittal or execution, whereby acquittals are ruled out as verdicts simply because of the involvement of the six as victims. What are the charges and convictions based on? Only on what the six believe they know, i.e. assumptions. It is not for nothing that believe is an expression of not knowing (!), even if it is far too often understood as a similar, weakened word, which contradicts its actual meaning. Because they know far less than they believe, above all absolutely nothing about what happened in the background and led to people making the wrong decisions. They only surmise, and because of their experiences, their greed for revenge supersedes reason and common sense. It is not for nothing that it is said that in the Middle Ages it was unhealthy to be the bearer of bad news. Because the bearer was tangible, in contrast to the actual cause and therefore often the poor bastard who was punished. ^^ Back to BSG, absolute proof does not exist, lawyers do not exist, there is no trial, no defence, no different views, accounts and perspectives of events, no explanations or at least clarifications for/to actions of the 'accused' that could have a mitigating effect. When they let the 'convicted' have their say, the judgement has already been passed and any further words fall on deaf ears. This is the central element of an unjust nation, no legal proceedings, no due process, no defence or at least comment on the charges, just revenge. Vigilante justice according to the law of the strongest since the executors are six, each 'convict' is individual. He cannot defend himself at any time and just because a 'president' signs or claims something does not make it right or correct. On the contrary, it's wrong, Zarek knows it, and that's why he goes to Tigh and the others, even though they originally hated him, the terrorist, and would have preferred to execute him. That's why there has to be an independent judiciary that scrutinises every law, every executive order and so on. In the case of BSG, as far as this is possible under the circumstances, i.e. by applying and respecting the laws of the colonies while suppressing feelings. Certainly difficult, but a profession is not always easy, not even that of a judge. Finally, my personal explanation as to why there are six people and the vote must be unanimous. There are 12 colonies with a Council of 12 that passes laws. Currently, however, BSG only has a questionable Vice President Zarek and nothing else. So he takes 6 people who vote unanimously in favour. With a maximum of six assumed opposing votes, it would be a stalemate which is then decided by the acting President Zarek. Zarek is the one who initiated the whole thing in the first place, so one can assume that he always agrees to a conviction. It's quite interesting how topical a 20-year-old series can be when you hear the rhetoric of a certain presidential candidate in the USA who is constantly talking about revenge and retribution, and when you imagine his future Ministry of Justice. ^^

[@stefanconradsson]

Ronald D. Moore is a fracking genius for pulling this reboot off. I'd love to pick his brain apart for a week. He's for the series what Commander Adama is for the fleet. Cheers 🍺

[@chetjonstun3112]

He basically copied the Occupation of Palestine. The IDF are the Cylons and the New Caprica Police Force is the Palestinian Authority. In which case, Tigh and crew are Hamas.

[@bobturwilliger37]

Not sure where to the find them these days, but his commentary tracks on the DVD release are excellent. They're very natural, like a decent number of them are recorded while he's cooking with his wife as she peppers him with questions.

[@stefanconradsson]

@@chetjonstun3112 Flawed analysis: New Caprica was uninhabited before Tigh and company settled there. If anything at all, it is the other way around, but even that perspective is flawed for obvious reasons. Cheers 🍺

[@RubbittTheBruise]

@stefanconradsson How can you pretend that the occupiers are the victims? You sound like Mark Regev.

[@jeffburnham6611]

Raises an interesting question, doesn't it? Helo was the X.O. of the Galactica while Tigh was on the surface of New Caprica. What does Helo do now; go back to being just a backseater in a Raptor? What about Lee and Dee? We don't really see the bridge personnel from Pegasus, but now that Pegasus is gone, where do all of those crewmembers fit into the duty rotation aboard Galactica?

[@Starsaber222]

Given that Galactica was being retired, I wouldn't be surprised if this just got them back up to normal crew levels.

[@Sir_AlexxTv]

When you think the high-stakes episodes are gone .... oh dear when she discovers the secrets 😁 And BTW, Connor is an a-hole

[@fasstaerke]

Lioben is by my favourite cylon ^^ lets see

[@jayburn00]

One of their counselors was a cylons, remember lol

[@johnfrick9639]

They had a full year (or more) of Cylon occupation. I'm sure it was FAR LESS than pleasant for the humans. So this "Circle" was kind of reminiscent of the trials of Nuremburg for the Nazis soldiers, officers, politicians, and business owners (see the movie "Schindler's List" for an interesting take on that). It actually WAS better that Saul handle Ellen. He KNEW she was going to (and HAD TO) die. By HIS hand, it would have been (and was) more humane and painless. Had it been left to somebody else, even HE knew how painfully violent it was going to be. I think he would have dealt with THAT far less than what he's had to deal with. Probably would have drunk himself into a coma or took a long stroll out a short air-lock out of boredom. Yes, they really do need some kind of psychological assistance. Of course, the LAST one they had turned out to be a Cylon (Cavill), so... 😁🐺

[@amy_grace]

A lot of the BSG reboot (along with the 9/11 stuff, etc.) is a direct reaction to Star Trek in the 90s, particularly how Ron Moore felt Voyager failed to live up to the potential of its premise. The enormous impact of New Caprica and the way it changes every character and relationship on the show is quite deliberately the opposite of the way Star Trek put its characters through horrific circumstances week after week and then never mentioned any of the traumas ever again 😂

[@theaikidoka]

I admire Star Trek for a couple of the movies, and a number of episodes with great premises and writing. However, the fundamental starting point for the Trek universe is that humans have largely overcome their baser instincts and habits, and that good people with a rational and compassionate approach can solve any problem. For many, this optimism is what makes it powerful, for me (and I suspect for you), that makes it seem phony. It's dealing with your damage that makes you strong. Several BSG characters are seriously messed up emotionally or morally, but they TRY to be better. That's compelling.

[@alexanderriley2979]

Worse than that, it was hitting the reset button on character growth. For syndication purposes it's best if very little changes as possible from episode to episode. Same with the TOS era.

[@shanenolan5625]

Thanks Angela

[@richlisola1]

Zarak was right, either secret trials or forgive them-Public trials are would rend the fleet to bits-Just because that doesn’t sit right with some. Doesn’t mean it is wrong. I don’t know what is right in this situation. But considering all the hardships and horrors mankind underwent from the first day of the Second Cylon War-Genocide, fleeing, pursuit, occupation, the darker side of humanity, up to and including human collaborators… You’ll never get this show if you don’t put yourself in their shoes. You’re not warm and cozy on your couch. You’re in the muck, sick, starving, chased. And at best times, in an iron box drifting through space, jump to jump. No sunlight, no foresight into your future, eating bad, working hard. Staring into an endless night. Only when you can be where the Colonials are, can you appreciate this show.

[@Trifler500]

If their "stone" is the same as what we know as a "stone", then online unit converter says 1 stone = 14 pounds.

[@MrFilbot]

Don’t you love Tigh a lot more now? Post occupation/ eye loss? Great character growth he became the leader he couldn’t be back when Adama was shot.

[@funnylilgalreacts]

I don’t know about love, but I pity that man

[@garypeterson5960]

A FLEET OF DAM PEOPLE AND A FLEET OF DAM MACHINES COLLISION BOUND

[@AlbertHuebsch]

If was implied just before the occasion when he took a hand full of pills and a drink of what I assume was alcohol. He became an addict during the time on New Caprica.

[@gungasam3000]

What is that necklace from? It's so familiar and I can't figure it out

[@Sephiroth144]

Kira: Yeah, that's how you deal with collaborators... Oh, a stone is roughly 14 pounds.

[@hoodwinkiez]

Yeah, it's a tough watch, but it was a very human reaction to the events of New Caprica. It's good that it upset you. It should upset you.

[@chazzerous]

The thing about this show is you have to view it through the lens of 2000’s contemporary American culture. 9/11 happened, then the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan happened, so while this episode is DARK it also intentionally lobbies some hard criticism of how the United States conducted the Global War on Terror. Even in this comments section sentiment is not firmly on one side or another and some people still look back on those times like we did the right thing

[@ironduke333]

"I'm all for killing whoever needs killing, but it's not going to make you feel any better.“

[@funnylilgalreacts]

Amos is wise

[@livetotell100]

This is a messed up episode. It shows how vindictive and dark humans can be.