Furnaces for cold climates… high efficiency?!🔥🤔

[@christopherhaak9824]

I self installed a Goodman gmvm 98% efficient furnace last winter. It's awesome. Very long run times on low, very even house temperature. Sips NG. I actually downsized from previous 37 year old furnace and it works so much better.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Nice! That’s great to hear

[@jochimbenschneider1915]

I bought a 96 Gas furnace from Amana last October. It’s worked very well and has a 10 year warranty on parts and labor. Finally a good warranty

[@MrRjnr]

I have learned so much from your videos in the past 2 weeks!! (and subscribed 😁)

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Right on! Glad you are enjoying them

[@MrRjnr]

@@TheHVACDopeShow know any good installer in the Sacramento area?

[@scottmannebach1284]

Setting the temperature above 69 in Wisconsin will melt your friends when they come over.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

I don’t doubt it lol!!

[@robertlong7723]

My home is a 2627 sq ft ranch with high ceilings (9’+) built in 2002 for Chicago winters. I have a 2627 sq ft English style basement (70% below grade 8’ 10” walls) that maintains a 65-68F temperature year-round. The home is heated by a 22 year old single stage Bryant 132,000/107,000 BTU 80% gas furnace and cooled by 4 ton A/C. The temperature setting for heating: 71 day/65 night, cooling: 76 day/78 night. The thermostat measures an average runtime of 5.2 hours per day {Dec, Jan, Feb} and 3.2 hours per day in July. Do these runtimes indicate that my system is over-sized? The basement is unfinished open space that is used daily with: work shop, crafting, billiards, table tennis, etc. I would like to increase the basement daytime temperature to 70 degrees year round. There are two wall registers (with louvers) installed at the far ends of the main supply trunk (east and west). There are no returns in the basement. There are no supply registers on the north or south end of the basement. There are 7 windows on the east wall and one window each in the south east and north east corners. Can I assume that any conditioning to the basement would lose some BTU’s to the outside and some to the upper level of the house? If so, is duct sealing in a semi-conditioned space pointless? Would conditioning the basement space by five degrees reduce the heating/cooling requirements of the upper level? Should I consider zoning the basement off of the existing HVAC or would it be better to install a separate HVAC for the basement? I plan to live in this house for 5-10 years, not enough time to have a high efficiency HVAC to pay for itself. I want to be prepared for a replacement if it becomes necessary.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Ton of useful information here very detailed so thanks! As far as 2 systems vs one (meaning one for basement and one for upstairs/main floor?) it will always be more comfortable to have separate systems. Zoning can be an ok solution with dampers but two systems will typically function better however just because zoning never really works ideally when the system is sized for to serve two spaces and only ends up serving one. The exception is communicating zones with communicating zone board. It will maximize comfort quiet and also effectiveness so it reduces capacity if it’s cooling one zone. As far as savings your right, this is all about comfort and what’s more comfortable so if you’re trying to max out comfort maybe consider two systems, if you want cost effective keep it as one and potentially zone if needed. Yes on “heat loss” staying inside the conditioned space so if you run more ducts to the basement you’ll just get better airflow, but airflow balancing (via a manual type of balancer on any new duct runs) would be a huge help Just because as you modify original ductwork you throw off airflow to the rest of the house, so having the ability to modify airflow in the future goes a long way to make sure you don’t throw things off. Hope that’s helpful! Duct sealing is not pointless at all it’s actually awesome because you’ll get better airflow to its intended location. This is through products like aeroseal, it really does a good job improving airflow and is worth doing. As far as sizing you need a load calculation to know for sure I can’t really tell anything from runtimes unless you know the system only runs for 5-10 minutes at a time when it’s on that would be a sign of short cycling (except on warmer winter days). Typically a systems should be able to cool 2 degrees an hour although heating will normally be quicker than this, but on the coldest nights everything even properly sized or oversized systems can struggle so we normally size for -4F in Denver for the winter heat load calc, and Chicago is probably sized much colder.

[@torreyholmquist9562]

We own a rental in West Yellowstone, which annually will have days where it's the lowest recorded temperature in the lower US. Last year there was 5' of snow in the yard and winter lows hit -20, or less, a few times. As a rental, there's a 26yr old Heil 80% that is still working fine and we have access to the property to change filters, etc, but still, it's worked hard over those years. I hear the line of thinking that an 80% is lower in cost and possibly a little more bombproof, but with heating bills in the $600/mo range last winter along with 'winter' typically lasting from October - April, the high efficiency option is appealing given pay-back time. Adding the new PVC isn't an issue with the location of the furnace. Thoughts?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Putting out a video on this shortly! It sounds like the payback might be there but as another commenter commented, the components are more expensive so a basic single stage 96% efficient system is probably a decent option since there will not be a big efficiency savings increase from a basic single stage system going up to a modulating for example (this is only a comfort feature / quieter). Hope that helps! 80% systems are more “bombproof” lol. Idk if solar with an inverter heat pump is an option but if your bills are $600 I would break out the gas portion to be sure on the payback. Thanks for watching!

[@torreyholmquist9562]

Appreciate the feedback - thank you!

[@doubled2375]

Liked your video. I’m in the Texas Hill Country and I Wish I had this information in 2018 I would have gone with a Single Stage. Instead I got the 2 Stage. Now in the Summer Time my Lennox High Seer Efficiency Electric Furnace kicks ass. Last few years we have been averaging 100 F + anywhere from 50 days up to over 100 days a year and my furnace never skipped a beat. Very quiet and Low Bills. Now since 2018 our Winters have been Colder than usual and that’s when my furnace starts to struggle. Soon as it hits 32 or Lower it gets noisy from the cycles and no warm air. The air is warmer than outside but not enough warmth like a Single Stage. I been looking for a video or something that I can read to show me the best way to operate a 2 stage furnace during the winter. Do I need to change to a higher air flow filter (I have a Merv 11) or remove the Real Feal Setting and just run Normal or what to help me Squeeze out some more warm temperature during the winter.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

It should satisfy temperature on the thermostat if you have a 1” Merv 11 filter that might be too restrictive and causing overheating. If you have the ability to add rails for a 2” thick filter that will help with airflow… but you can change the ramping profile settings so that it kicks into 2nd stage quicker. Your contractor should be able to adjust the dip switch settings on the furnace and / or make adjustments inside the thermostat to adjust how it ramps. Normally it’s done via dip switches on the board of the furnace so it involves reading the manual and is a little complex for a layman, but a tech should be familiar with this. Hopefully that helps, if not lmk and we can provide some guidance!

[@status101-danielho6]

Here's a complicated question. I've been slowly upgrading my home envelope, the latest being going from an R20 to R50 roof, better attic venting, and solar blocking window treatments. Those three retrofits alone cut my heating and A/C in half. So now my medium efficiency 45,000/60,000 dual stage furnace is only on for 6 hours during the coldest days (50 heat degree day), which works out to 9,000-12,000 BTU/hr in heat loss. Not quite PassivHaus, but close enough to EnerPHit. Do small natural gas furnaces exist , or am I a candidate to eventually switching to a cold climate heat pump? (not that I mind, 80% of my gas bill is just admin fees and right-of-way charges)

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Insulation is huge! Makes such a big difference… how cold is the coldest it gets? If it only gets 50F outside you don’t need a low ambient heat pump any heat pump will work, but I would still opt for an inverter like a Daikin fit just for comfort factors because it’s so quiet. Also the heating BTU you mentioned is normally input not output, so I’d need to know your altitude to De-rate, but at 50F you’re probably not in the mountains so any heat pump would be able to keep up just fine.

[@meltingpotonradio]

Thank you for this informative session. What would you recommend for a New build in very cold places like Saskatchewan Canada? Standard or HE? Natural Gas is cheaper than Propane here as well.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Probably high efficiency based on run time, energy rates inflate on average at 3.3% a year so it should pay for itself if you’re in the home 10 years+ with cheap gas

[@greasypetes]

Sask. power/energy will only allow enerstar rated (he) installation on new or retrofit and they offer rebates

[@donaldjackson1154]

Good information

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Thanks! And glad you found it helpful

[@SteveF-g5x]

First time buying a furnace for my house . Is a 66,000 BTU efficient good for a house 1290 square ft house? Older house with older doors and older windows. Built in 1914-1917. Ranch style with a basement.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Potentially, what state / location? Depends on climate… for Southern California that’s more than needed but for Minnesota maybe right sized? Just have to do a heat load calculation. Also if it’s 96% efficient that’s an output raising of close to 64, if it’s only 80% then that’s only 53k output (actual heat to the house).

[@markherbert9613]

Hello good Sir: would you be able to translate your $100 break point on billing cost INTO an approximate amount of just only natural gas used, as our Canadian billing office charges and transmission charges in Alberta are a steady approximately $110 per month without the natural gas amount used. And the price of gas varies dramatically, so there is no way of knowing what your $100 break point really means; unless you could qualify the break point with more detail. Thankyou so much. I have subscribed to your channel. You have great value of information here on your site. Thankyou.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Right on glad you found it helpful! To clarify, you’re asking how to clarify your break even point for furnace choice between 80 or 96% efficient? Or your breakeven point between furnace or getting a heat pump? In Canada your only options are high efficiency 96% furnaces if I’m not mistaken, so there’s not a breakeven difference between the base model and highest end furnace model in Canada, it’s really just a comfort choice. For choosing a heat pump and gauging that it’s a much more in dept conversation. We have a video called “Heat pump breakeven” I believe that articulates how to calculate the comparison but honestly was a little confusing was the general feedback I got so I’ll be re-doing that video with more clarity at some point, but the big thing is look at your bill and look at the amount of therms or cubic feet of gas used (might be a different measurement for you) and base it on that and the actual consumption.

[@Matt-nr3nx]

I'm in Minnesota in a home that was fully renovated in 2009. Currently we run a 92% Goodman single stage original from the renovation. I'm all in on the dual fuel option but the question I have is what kind of electrical draw (starting and running) the system would be looking at if I were to run a solar set up that was dedicated to just the HVAC?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Depends on size of system and home size but normally the inverters are very efficient like the Mitsubishi intellhiheat for example

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

For example on startup they might pull 2-3 amps, and then while running at peak capacity pull 10 - 20 amps while they modulate. Inverters will always pull less power… in terms of KW you’re talking anywhere between 1 - 10 KW while running depending at what speed they’re modulating. In terms of what you’d need solar capacity wise, the best option is get a baseline and monitor your usage, and then add the heat pump and monitor the increase or change. This will also vary with weather / cold vs. a mild winter but at least you’ll be able to look at actual numbers

[@Kiddro22]

Everybody loves a Trane in my area. I can care less for them. All you’re doing is paying for the name. American Standard is manufactured by Trane. Same product basically with half the cost in some ways. But I would definitely go with a Daikin if I could. They’re not widely offered in my area though.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

That’s unfortunate but I agree American standard is a great alternative… Trane has the reputation of overcomplicating their systems, why have 1 board when you can have 3 lol

[@Alamodem]

WE have a high efficiency furnace. Totally hate it.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Why is that? Do you have lots of issues with it? Most common issues are due to exhaust runs, and the furnace not being tilted properly for drainage

[@luisgonzalez8415]

I have an AC Pro that is a high efficiency furnace. Is it normal to take 6 hours to go from 45℉ to 70℉? Also, I can not get any higher the 68-70℉?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Thanks for the post! Depends on the system need a little more info. Technically it could be over or undersized. Oversized symptoms are it’s not keeping up because it overheats and trips on high limit. But if it’s running constantly and not cycling off and just isn’t keeping up it could be undersized. If you post your region, Btu rating, and square footage above ground (not including basement) I can give you a ballpark on what it sounds like? 6 hour run time for forced air can be a little long but not bad, and again depends how cold. For cooling we tell people 1-2 degrees an hour, for heating 2-3 degrees an hour and able to hit design temp (normally 70-74) is ideal so you get more even heating. If it’s too large it will short cycle on and off

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

And for what it’s worth slightly undersized is better than slightly oversized and normally more comfortable because of longer run times. Thanks for watching!