☝️The Truth about High-Efficiency Furnaces | HVAC Secret Revealed👈

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5zYeYp7gZZ1i80

[@BrianMick-mz9np]

😮 Best damn straight dope I've heard in a while and I watch a lot of videos. I'm a retired math teacher and a ropes work /handyman and have to say I've watched a ton of videos to help me learn new trades and techniques and I must compliment you on your extremely extremely. Yeah I meant to say that twice. Well done video. So efficient and precise and what a good spirit. Keep up the great work super thanks!

[@bigdaddy5948]

From my 40 years in the field I've found that the 80 percent furnaces last longer. The secondary heat x on the high efficiency seems to fail to soon. That's just my experience not a scientific survey.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yeah the earlier models kind of suck but it’s partially a bad product and partially poor install… I feel like in new construction they don’t do a combustion analysis since they’re churning them out (on single stage systems) and they end up over firing the furnace and causing premature failure / rich burn. Our modulating systems burn very efficient when we run a combustion analysis, but I don’t think your experience is far off from most. 80’s are solid I like them, especially if you could them with an inverter heat pump and do duel fuel with a changeover from Heat pump to gas around 15 degrees or so… seems to be the sweet spot and best of both worlds.

[@FlyEaglesFly19111]

That is because the manufacturers don't use stainless steel. Not the cheap stainless but quality stainless. 90% furnace Needs to be flushed each year at spring at the end of the year so that the dirty gas deposits don't sit to rot out the metals.

[@georgewelker853]

@@FlyEaglesFly19111 or just buy a Lennox, they’ve been running a stainless secondary Heat exchanger for decades.

[@ArcolaBridge]

@@FlyEaglesFly19111 I have an Amana Air Command High efficient 90 Plus from the early 90s I think. The house was built in 88 so I know it can't be any older than that, I guess it could be original? I never knew you had to clean the Heat exchanger?

[@ron9381]

I agree but I found most of failures are related to temperature rise, running them below the 60° minimum return air temperature, and gas pressure not set right or changes over time which is very common.

[@lostinmyspace4910]

Great video on high efficiency furnaces. For me, I'd still go with 80% efficiency furnace because any cost efficiency you gain with 90+ furnace you choose will be costing you money when you call for a technician to fix the ding dong thing. It catches up with you. In the end I'd be more concerned about cost efficiency rather than natural gas efficiency. I even know another HVAC tech who s staying with 80% efficiency for his home, and suggestions to others to buy 80%. That's good enough. THUMBS UP!!!.

[@HobbyOrganist]

Learn how to FIX things yourself, why on earth would you need to call someone?? I'm 63, Ive NEVER called anyone because I learn how to do everything myself and have in my house, everything from installing a 200 amp QO breaker panel, conduit/armored cable and all wiring to replace a 4 fuse box and knob and tube wiring, all new copper plumbing, new roof, an added on room needing a foundation and block wall to grade etc etc. I installed my 96% 80K BTU Goodman furnace and all the ductwork and the gas line myself last Sept to replace the old Lennox G11-e, 80% 110K BTU I installed in 2003, I installed all new windows myself, ceramic tile floors, custom kitchen cabinets I built myself, concrete slab out back. There's NO WAY I'm calling someone in to do anything I can do myself! The only exception has been I had a local electrician replace my wiring from the weatherhead thru the meter and into my 200 amp breaker panel, and the only reason I couldn't do it myself was there was no way for me to shut the power off at the pole transformer. I plan to buy a few spare repair parts for the furnace to have on hand.

[@steveb8897]

​@♬ HовЬу Ояgaиїšт ♬ good on you but not everyone has $10k+ worth of tools and know-how that won't result in an expensive hack job!

[@curt3548]

I worked over 20 years in HVAC , Installing and service. and I chose an 80% furnace for my home. potential drawbacks of a 90% furnace are increased maintenance . costly repairs. for instance most ECM blower motors and ECM inducer motors are much more expensive than PSC motors. Also i have replaced many secondary heat exchangers from failure. just my opinion.

[@brentsmith4528]

The new wave of business in our area of wisconsin is the contractor's dont fix anything , they sell you on a new furnace regardless of age of old one and they are charging 8 to $12,000 for a new one, oh and people are falling for this, I see this all the time , semi retired hvac tech. Thanks for the good videos.

[@JackieBlack-x2c]

A high energy efficiency furnace gas, midline carrier cost $1400 to the hvac guys. They are marking them up double and triple...

[@MN_Fan]

I moved from a 23-year old 80% natural gas furnace to a 96% efficient furnace in 2000 in a home in Minnesota after doing a ton of research. I'm totally happy with the lower natural gas bills with my choice.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

That’s great! Sounds like it was a quality installation if it’s lasted that long, and Minnesota is cold so I bet it’s saved some money for sure!! Natural gas prices have really skyrocketed for us too recently

[@moonyvuong8054]

I'm in MN. My Natural Gas Furnace is original to home (1959), and it had finally broke down. Your comment is helpful!

[@andrewludwig9251]

99% of the houses in MN have a fully conditioned basement so high efficiency furnaces are perfect for that application.

[@dr00andrew]

This is one of the only videos on youtube that breaks down furnace efficiency for the average consumer to understand. Very well produced.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Thank you!! Glad you enjoyed it 😁

[@jamesszalla4274]

I was in HVAC for just shy of 30 years. I would never install a 90% furnace in a crawl space. I seen a couple over the years where the condensate trap froze when the furnace failed and the crawl space got cold. I conditionally agree on not putting them in attics. It depends upon the attic is finished and heated. If the attic’s unfinished and not heated, then it’s not a good idea to use a 90%. However, if the attic is finished and heated, it’s not a problem. I had a couple customers with with finished attics with 90% furnaces. They pretty much used the attics for storage. Only real caveat is to put a pan with a drain under the furnace with a cutoff switch in case there’s a condensate leak from the furnace, humidifier or AC. I had a commercial customer who had a 90% in a small closet that was accessed from the outside. The inducer went bad and the furnace died. The furnace had been out for some time and the trap froze. The facility maintenance guy said he was going to put a heater in the closet while I ran to get an inducer. I figured he was talking about a small space heater. Nope. When I got back, water was gushing out of the closet and into the parking lot The maintenance guy had shoehorned a salamander heater into the closet. It got so hot that it set off the fire suppression sprinkler.

[@lostinmyspace4910]

That salamder in the closet. That's what movies are made of. Can you say Steven Spielburg?

[@robertsitch1415]

I have had no problem with frozen condensate lines on my high efficiency furnace in an insulated crawlspace. Here in Canada, all gas furnaces installed since 2009 have to be high efficiency.

[@HobbyOrganist]

Only fools have such appliances installed in a crawl space they'll never have to crawl in themselves and filteres will NEVER get changed either, or in a hot/cold attic basically open to the sky with 130 degrees in the summer while the A/C struggles, or -20 in winter while the furnace struggles.

[@joelperigo7213]

@@HobbyOrganist I agree with not putting a furnace in a crawlspace. They don’t last as long and rodents love to make nests inside of them. But sometimes the existing furnace is already there and people don’t want to pay the extra in ductwork to have it moved when installing a new one. Installers don’t like it, service techs don’t like it, furnaces don’t like it, but rodents love it.

[@ttt-de6sm]

Did you ever have to remove brick from the foundation to get equipment to fit in crawlspace?

[@KPHVAC]

Don't forget to look into how well your home is insulated!! Also get your ductwork inspected. I was just at a customers home and she must be loosing 30% to 50% of the heat to the crawl space. Some of the ductwork connections had completely fallen off.

[@pablopicaro7649]

Liven in a rental once and the main supply flex duct fell of the supply plenum - owner didn't give a sh#t

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

@@pablopicaro7649 Yikes! That’s terrible lol

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Very true! We have a standard practice to check attic insulation on homes because of how much of a difference it can make. Sometimes people want to put in a high efficiency but they’d be better off focusing on new windows and getting attic blow in insulation.

[@brnmcc01]

@@TheHVACDopeShow New windows are very expensive these days, and what with all the shortages and supply chain crap, a lot of windows are on national backorder, and the lead time is absolutely rediculous. Heard from some window contractors several months lead time.

[@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936]

Older homes ( 1960ish ) with forced air heat were generally sealed with Duck Tape. The old timers would have used Pookie, which as far as I understand, does NOT break down, and does not separate at the joints like Duck Tape ALWAYS does. Current code may require screws at every joint. Better to redo all the joints with the messy stuff, and get the less fussy furnace. And have house pressurized for an energy audit. So many homes still have no, or insufficient insulation. The most effective measures to save energy/increase comfort in my 1960 house started with attic insulation increase, wall insulation, then windows. Also did radon testing before and after these measures. It is hard to breath in a ziplock bag. Some Oxygen is needed, Radon and monoxide is lethal. My furnace is about 35 years old, works excellent for heat, ok enough for the retrofit for AC, considering the duct sizing. Until furnace fails to require more than the once every 10 years blower fan or thermocouple..... a new furnace will likely be a high maintenance device.

[@idahooutlaw4952]

Hvac tech here.. this guy is speaking truth… some things to consider are pulling combustion from outside instead of inside, if you already have a high efficiency going back may not be a good option 80% venting can be extremely hot also at some point may need replacement and runs through chase so abandon it with a 90 may be a good option aswell

[@joem2197]

You are entirely correct. Installation is a must have, period. My propane quote was reinforced 3 times, one way or another, regarding their quality workmanship. And I would not refute that. Had a simple question about the process and the salesman never called me back. Two months later the company e-mailed me to inquire. Responded " All Set. " Installed a Burnham MPO Oil Boiler. and a mini- split heat pump and 2 other items to complement the new system. Had another quality company do the job. Used just over 800 gallons of oil last heating season. Hoping to lower oil consumption with the mini split. Figure the payback for the mini split should be 4 to 5 seasons. Thank you for your great videos.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Awesome glad you’re enjoying the videos! The mini split should help supplement for sure that’s great to hear

[@machintelligence]

I have had good luck with my 96% efficiency furnace. It is installed in a basement in Denver. It uses a sealed combustion chamber and brings in outside air for combustion. My only quibbles are that it runs the fan fairly fast to get every BTU out of the heat exchanger. The air rush noise is significantly louder than the old furnace.The gas valve failed at 4 plus years, but was under warranty. Seven years into it I am quite pleased.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Fan airflow can be adjusted via dipswitches on the board normally unless it’s a PSC motor. If you post the model number here we can tell you whether it’s an ECM / Variable speed and if it is you (or the installer / a tech) can adjust the dip switches to change the 1. Ramping profile 2. CFM settings (cubic feet per minute)

[@KPHVAC]

If you're on natural gas I would probably stick with a standard efficiency furnace. If you are on Propane it's worth looking into a Heat Pump or at least a high efficiency furnace! Your location, temperature, home, insulation, fuel costs, and electrical cost, are all variables that should be considered.

[@dknowles60]

heat pumps dont work that is why it got cold in the TVA area the TVA had rolling blackouts

[@KPHVAC]

@@dknowles60 They work great in my area, Western Washington State along the coast. It's always good to have a gas propane or wood backup for when it's really cold. Some of the Mitsubishi Hyper Heat units have 100% output at 5 degrees F!! For power outages a fireplace or wood stove is best.

[@Garth2011]

@@KPHVAC Many states such as CA are baning fireplaces, wood stoves and soon natural gas is on their list. That will eliminate the alternative backup plan for heat. Makes you wonder if they aren't really trying to have complete control on power usage one day and have the ability to shut you off or change rates with one swift stroke of the pen.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

@@Garth2011 Yes California is kind of ran by morons honestly lol… I’m all for practical electrification but they pass laws without giving any consideration to what the engineers will have to do to their grid to make sure things don’t fail. Inverter driven appliances will ultimately reduce amp draw and the brown outs / black out issues they have their if they’re able to beef up their grid but that state is a mess honestly. It is like they’ve politicized the whole thing without consulting with anyone who actually knows how electricity works 😂

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

@@dknowles60 definitely some truth to that, a single stage heat pump pulls a ton of power… but inverters can pull less than a space heater on startup so that’s normally the way to go if you’re doing a heat pump

[@tinman4585]

Licensed HVAC technician in Ct of 40 years i have put 90+ in attics and crawl holes but wrap heat trace on the condensate trap and pipe even condensate pump once or twice its fine. Rather see them in a basement though

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

You can definitely do it but we just prefer not to if it’s there primary heat source especially. Normally we do an 80% for the attic and high efficiency for the basement furnace if it’s a big home with 2 furnaces, since the upstairs attic furnace isn’t getting as much use in the winter by comparison it’s normally a good mix

[@modquad18]

Thanks for this vid, well done! I’ve got a Trane XE90 (LP) in basement that recently started puking water. Turns out there were 3 sources of water leakage and I’ve repaired 2 and working on the last one. Plan to redo all my hvac within 2 years and install a large solar array, so just starting to research what’s out there. I’m in the Midwest US.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yikes! Yeah, there’s a lot of options, Midwest gets cold so a duel fuel setup is worth considering depending on your budget especially if you’re doing solar. Definitely want to have backup furnace / or electric heat kit on your air handler in that type of climate. Thanks for the comment and let us know if you have any questions about a particular system and we’ll do what we can to answer those!

[@modquad18]

@@TheHVACDopeShow Thanks man 👍🏽 Yeah, EM Heat in the air handler for sure. Probably 20-30 days per year where we don’t get above 25F.

[@aaronb483]

I live about 30 minutes from Detroit, MI. It is in the top 10 cities with the worst Annual Hours of Sunlight. But I am also in an area surrounded with lakes, and I hit water about 10' down. I would like to get Ground water assist heat pump, but because of the expence, the payback is very bad. It's like the manufactures and installer are saying. We want the money the home owner is going to save.

[@modquad18]

@@aaronb483 Ugh, that is a bummer for such a shallow well. Could you use that water for drinking, etc? Maybe ditch city water and at least cut that expense too??

[@Pepe-dq2ib]

Its really situational. I live in MN and the previous furnace is an HE, so its logical to go with another HE. We also got a $1805 rebate check, making the 98% HE actually be cheaper than the 92% offered to us. We went with the Bryant 987 because our installer gave us the best insurance where we dont pay a dime on any repair for 20 years and a lifetime on the HX. I don't know if the price is good, but we paid a total of $6300 with full installation.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yeah it’s definitely situational but that is definitely a situation where it sounds like it made sense! Sounds you got a great deal with that rebate too, our rebate in Colorado is only $300 for HE furnaces

[@ArvindSingh-hf2zd]

Helpful video - thank you. A follow up on brands and if that is important would be nice. My technician is recommending Goodman and he has all HE furnace brands available. The other two quotes only recommended the brand(s) they carry.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Saw your other comment ;) thanks for watching!

[@timpeterson2738]

I bought a house last August 2022, came with original 1979 lennox wisper, moved from a 96% efficient furnace. This old furnace cut our gas bills by $80 bucks, it is the best furnace I have ever owned in 56 years, no question. I'll keep it forever thank you.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Is it a smaller house or different utility? That would reduce the bill more than anything… efficiency is just gas energy in vs. energy out

[@agems56]

Here in Calgary, our high efficiency savings have been eroded by high fees and taxes! So I will stick to my old '84 Lennox! Bullet proof reliability! Just like our old '58 in the old house I grew up in!

[@markhoffman]

Please check for a cracked heat exchanger

[@RockoRocko-rz7kx]

Wait until April when blackface triples the carbon tax. Wexit the only hope

[@pablopicaro7649]

95% efficient Lennox Pulse (buzz bom) G14 from late 1987 still humming along. Image the incredible savings from both High Efficiency AND extraordinary longevity (35 years). Periodic maintenance is done and Do test for leaks periodically. AC Compress is Lennox HS26 (SEER 13.6) an from mid 2003, So good efficiency and Longevity of 19 years so far.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

They don’t make them like they used to for a reason lol, and yes as long as your checking the heat exchanger for cracks some of those natural draft systems last a while. The whisper heats have a bad heat exchanger design but besides that the oldies can be the goodies!

[@Kiddro22]

@@TheHVACDopeShow you got that right! I have a Lennox Elite HE model and it’s been nothing but problems

[@bauhnguefyische667]

You can put a 90+ in the attic, but best case scenario the roof joists are insulated and condensate piping is insulated. We never have problems with them when it’s done that way. Inside the homes fenestration is best overall

[@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936]

For most people: Fenestration is any break in the envelope of the house... windows, doors and any other interruption for pipes, vents, conduits, etc. There once was a premium commercial steel door company "Fenestra".

[@bauhnguefyische667]

@@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936 that’s a pretty good definition👍

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yes you can definitely install them in attics… in our region attics aren’t conditioned or in the envelope so it becomes an issue when it’s -10F outside, and there’s ways to account for that with insulation Heat tape etc like you said but attic systems out here are normally second systems in larger homes so it’s typically not a good bet

[@MrNunna]

I live in Minneapolis & bought a Sears high efficiency (96% ?) about 20 years ago. I think these back them were made by Heil. Over that time I think I had to replace the INDUCED DRAFT BLOWER twice that I paid for at a cost of between $150 & $200 each. Since then, I've had a repair contract that's replaced at least 3 blowers. So I have no doubt it's efficiency is high but as far as saving money, if you have to add $150 to $200 every year and a half or 2 years to the operation of your furnace, it starts not looking so good. Next time, no dual stage HE for me. .

[@robertsitch1415]

Usually a 80% furnace has the same moving parts as a more basic single stage high efficiency model.

[@MrNunna]

@@robertsitch1415 Yes, but the weak point was the induced draft blower, not used on the single stage models.

[@robertsitch1415]

@Mr. Nunna every 80% furnace has one too. I do find that motor quality has gone down some since almost all massed produced ones are made in China or Mexico and likely by the lowest bidder.

[@Lake_Lover]

@@robertsitch1415 On my Bryant 80% single stage the inducer motor was making a god awful noise every time the furnace cycled. Local hvac guy wanted over $600 to replace. I found an oem replacement part in Indiana and replaced myself for ~ $225. Furnace has ran great ever since. Only other problem I've had is the igniter and a sensor on the exhaust pipe went out on it. Both of those parts cost me less than $50 bucks. Furnace is on it's 20th season now. Still running the R11 in the AC system. Replaced leaky A coil 3 years ago. If it starts leaking freon again I'll be forced to replace the whole system. R11 ain't around anymore unless you know someone - wink, wink.

[@s.j.5850]

Great explanation of the differences of the two types of furnaces, especially the part about not installing one in the attic of a home due to condensation issues. The extra (proprietary?) parts was a turnoff for me when considering one. I'm in the Southeast with the furnace located in the attic. Winters are also relatively mild so I'm sticking with the 80% efficiency.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Right on glad you enjoyed it!

[@Marty1911]

Great video right up to the part where you said that modulating furnaces do not need a combustion analysis. That is false unless you do not care about the safety of your customers. Just because the gas pressure is not field adjustable on a modulating furnace does not mean that they need not be tested the same as any other furnace. Safety should never be assumed.

[@williamhurst7766]

Thousand thanks. Lots of useful information for typical homeowner like me that is expecting to replace system in next few years.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Glad it was helpful! My pleasure!

[@boelsa]

Can you run exhaust venting through an unheated garage to make it closest outside wall? I don’t mean to vent in the garage. I mean run the pvc through the garage to make it to outside. Ty. Good video!

[@FreonChugger]

You can, but make sure to fully insulate the pvc piping

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yes you can and if the garage is unconditioned it wouldn’t hurt to insulate it I agree… long runs outside definitely insulate (assuming you’re in a climate with freezing temps) And make sure you have 1/4” slope per foot rise, otherwise that gargling sound you hear is the reason your furnace isn’t working because it means your exhaust has a belly of water 😁

[@joelperigo7213]

I am an HVAC service technician and I endorse this message

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Haha thanks! Cheers

[@billhamilton2366]

I live in Canada in a 1000 foot bungalow with a full basement and even in the depths of winter my gas bill never exceeds $100 per month. I have a medium efficiency furnace that I have rebuilt once and it uses powered venting and a masonry chimney with a stainless steel liner. I replaced the rotting aluminum liner last year.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yep good call that furnace is a better option than a high efficiency for sure!

[@mtejada1]

We just bought our house and it has a high efficiency furnace. It’s 1 year old. Luckily we didn’t get a house with a old furnace. Because price for a new one in nj is $8k !!!! Doesn’t matter who you call

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Nice! Yeah they’re not cheap 😬

[@SavedByFaithInJesus]

What are your thoughts on "Duct Cleaning"?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Get your ducts scoped it’s worth it if they’re dirty and a legit company… legit companies charge anywhere between $300-1000 for duct cleaning so a cheap Groupon probably is just a dude with a vacuum but it’s worth it if you’ve never had it done, or recently remodeled (drywall dust can really clog stuff up!)

[@joem2197]

Great info. Really feel HE is going to require a lot of maintenance, and there aren't enough HVAC techs who are up to speed on this. At 75, my home needs a new oil boiler. Need new infrastructure for propane, and the Bosch Buderus boiler is 87% efficient with oil. it's really a gamble. Oil ??? A mini split would go in the main room for backup. The fireplace is 95% heat loss. Plan to stay in my home for at least 7 to 10 years. Have a contractor with a crew up to speed on HE propane also. Thinking the house value would be higher with HE though. Live just north of Boston. Which way do I go ? Have well water which is treated and gets a ph of almost 7. Hear mainly negative comments on HE 95% boilers. It's a learning process for everyone. What CA is doing is crazy. Will keep looking for your viseos.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

We'll be putting out a few high efficiency boiler videos soon but our favorite is the Triangle Tube Combi and Triangle Tube instinct. I know very little about Oil other than Oil heating I've heard is very hard on units and you don't get a long life expectancy as a result. I don't know what your operational costs are but if Oil is high and someone advises you that propane is lower than it might be worth considering but I would find a solid contractor that knows what they're doing. And like I mentioned our go to for boilers is Triangle Tube, but anything installed properly will work well. Installation is key!

[@biblebloopers946]

Wow this is a lot of good information. How is there not more people commenting on this?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Thanks! We appreciate it and will keep putting out more :)

[@eladioflores3748]

Great video very informative we had two high efficiency furnace installed in our house and I don’t believe they ever tested the fuel to oxygen levels I feel like it’s not very efficient any idea what can I do. Don’t want to call the company that installed them as I feel they don’t know much about high efficiency, furnaces they primarily installed regular furnaces. If it’s any helpful, we ended up getting American Standard brand..

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

If you call a company ask for a “combustion analysis”… the company who installed it should be able to do it, but if they don’t or can’t or don’t have an analyzer you can call around and find a company that offers it the service will vary in price but it’s about a 1 hour process to check / tune… and it might not need tuning

[@browntigerus]

I would love to switch, but would have to redo HVAC venting (no biggy), but also replace the water heater with condensing or on demand.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

On demand water heaters can be nice if your bills are high and you plan on being there for a while.

[@PBS-nm1uu]

just found your site, please do sequence of operation, thanks

[@artboymoy]

I already have solar on my house so was thinking of switching out my old gas furnace for a HE heat pump. I live in WI and was wondering if it's an easy switch out. I guess I'd still have gas for the water heater but I'm not opposed to ditching that as well for a electric system. My house isn't that big. 1500 sq ft.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

You’d need backup gas heat most likely. The new daikin fit enhanced heat pumps heat down to -10 before switching over to gas but they’ll change the switchover point based on what temps it needs to keep your home comfortable. Most likely switchover temp would be around -10 to 0. You can do an all electric heat kit for backup heat but you’d probably be better off with a furnace. Depending on if your furnace doesn’t need to be replaced based on age you could use a Mitsubishi Intelliheat as a dual fuel option.

[@qwk351]

Thanks for another great video. At 7:32 you mention an inverter heat pump with a 80% gas furnace if living in South Arizona. Using an Inverter heat pump Ac is less expensive but the heat pump would be more expensive than a gas furnace. Here in Phoenix can we use an inverter type AC with a 80% gas furnace? Been trying to find out if that is an option. Any recommendations for this type of set up?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Furnace AC would work great in AZ for sure, you don’t really need a heat pump but you also don’t need a furnace because it never gets that cold. Daikin makes an air handler that’s 120v which eliminates the need for a new electrical circuit and makes heat pump air handler combo cheaper than furnace AC usually

[@DevilTravels]

Well, no high efficiency furnace for my cabin project. Now to check out high efficiency heat pumps to see if one can keep up with northern Wisconsin winters.

[@ross1116]

Cooper & Hunter are good for -22F

[@jko0526]

Two different contractors have told me that here in Wisconsin heat pumps are only good down to 30 degrees. I am in the process of replacing the system in my home but can’t get the right information to make me feel comfortable with the $17k price tag.

[@DevilTravels]

@@jko0526 I'm considering an 80% efficiency furnace with a wood burning furnace add on. Northern Wisconsin can drop as low as -40 and I'd like to stay warm in an emergency.

[@billderby1527]

@@jko0526 Wait until 2023. At this point Biden's free money will come to you in in the form of rebates on heat pumps. State by State will handle differently but some are instant discounts and will be substantial. Additionally R-410a which, is also already obsolete, but is the current refrigerant, does a better job at lower temperatures. Just be sure that your second stage or also called emergency heat can carry the load.

[@pablopicaro7649]

@@jko0526 Geothermal / ground source heat pump would work if you have space for ground loops or wells

[@ThomasBiskup-tb7mg]

Nice video but I wish you would have also included in your cost analysis the lifetime cost of service and maintenance into the equation. The newer high efficiency furnaces have ECM blower motors which are three to four times the replacement cost of a PCM motor which are found on the slightly less efficient furnaces. The induction motor(another motor on the furnace) alone on my Carrier Weathermaker Infinity furnace is close to $2000 to replace. It went out in the first 3yrs of my furnace and fortunately was covered under warranty. However, my ECM motor went out after 12yrs and I had to eat the cost of a new $1800 replacement motor. Don't even get me started on the special computer board that is needed on these high efficiency furnaces. This board also went out but was covered under my warranty(paid extra $ for a 10yr covg) . Normal covg for parts was 3yrs only! You also have a special thermostat that will cost anywhere from $500-$1000 extra. All these costs that you did not discuss are the true hidden costs of owning a high efficiency furnace. Yes, you get 98% efficiency and save on the amount of gas used, but why not settle for 80 - 90% efficiency and pay almost 1/2 the price for a furnace which will last just as long (18-25yrs is the industry ave for all furnaces). If I have a choice in the future, I will never again opt for the high efficiency model over the simpler less efficient one. Trust me, over the 20yrs you own it, you will save THOUSANDS of dollars over that high efficiency model in the cost of service and maintenance. But, if your conscience won't allow you to burn that extra 10% in gas, then better burn some of your dollars on that high efficiency model to soothe your conscience.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Very thoughtful comment, making a video about this because it's very true! Thanks for commenting!

[@_papad8434]

The a$$holes that installed my Rheem furnace (which I hate-very loud) 11 years ago are already trying to get their next sale in by repeatedly telling me that the average life span for gas furnaces is 10 years now.

[@jtcarroll123]

Looking to replace my Trane XL90 and A/C system in my home. In garage vented in PVC pipe. Any advice?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Depends on a lot of factors! Just don't overspend and don't underspend... if you plan on being there for a while then I would go for the most comfortable system. If you have solar consider an inverter heat pump (like a Daikin Fit or Mitsubishi intelligent for example). If you have very cold winters you'll still need a furnace as backup heat unless you switch to an air handler, but just depends on your climate!

[@southerner66]

Where I live, I was told that code requirements no longer allow HVAC installers to install an 80% furnace in a crawlspace.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

That is true for a lot of new construction but It depends on the area, and sometimes the rules for retrofit are different from new construction, although we do run across municipalities that make no exceptions and require high efficiency / 96% systems.

[@southerner66]

@@TheHVACDopeShow This was on a furnace replacement in a 1960s house. It had an existing 80% furnace installed in the late 1990s with an exhaust vent through the crawlspace wall, not via the chimney, and they said that that was no longer allowed.

[@The1JBanks]

they didn’t allow you to use a power venter?

[@southerner66]

@@The1JBanks I got several estimates from different HVAC companies, and they all said it was now against local codes to install an 80% furnace the way my old one was installed. No one mentioned a power venter. Maybe they were all trying to sell me a more expensive system. I haven't looked up the code.

[@Hogtownboy1]

@@southerner66 no even with most local codes only high efficiency are allowed as really replacements.

[@craigmarshall40]

Is it ok to install high efficiency unit in the garage ? I am in California in mountains at 3000 ft it does get into the high 20f at night

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Depends what the coldest night time temp is but at 20F you could have issues with freezing but not as likely. If you circulate the blower (run the fan) it keeps the condensate in the heat exchanger above freezing so you’ll have less issues, but a garage is probably better than an attic but not as insulated as a crawl space. Just depends on the design of the home, but if it’s high 20’s then you’re probably fine, and if you get a REALLY cold night just keep the fan running so it keeps the condensate in the heat exchanger and condensate trap liquid. You can also put heat tape but that stuff fails periodically which is why we pass on high efficiency furnaces in the attic

[@pablopicaro7649]

95% efficient Lennox Pulse (buzz bom) G14 from late 1987 still humming along. Image the incredible savings from both High Efficiency AND extraordinary longevity (35 years). Periodic maintenance is done and Do test for leaks periodically. AC Compress is Lennox HS26 (SEER 13.6) an from mid 2003, So good efficiency and Longevity of 19 years so far.

[@Garth2011]

Spark Plug original too.

[@marklake6292]

Pulse is very efficient and fairly quiet if it’s not an early model but these units are a positive pressure heat exchanger that will leak into the home if it gets a hole or leak . Lennox recommended a pressure test every 4 years the last I heard.

[@markgrove2030]

Hey Pablo that combo of G14 or G21 plus HS26? EXCELLENT choice; sold & fiddled with many of these back when.

[@cjimcook]

Would be curious to hear what you have to say about ground-source heat pumps. Am planning to build a new (retirement) house in Tubac, AZ in a few years. When I inquire about these, either folks have no idea about them or the costs are huge due to the need to drill four or five "wells" for the closed ground loops. Cheers!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Ground source heat pumps are not something we install or work on but I know companies that do. Big thing is making sure you hire a company that has lots of experience with them as it is 100% a specialty and can be a mess if done improperly. I've techs complain about them but again I have no experience. Road Runner HVAC is a company in Colorado that does them and is reputable (only does word of mouth advertising) and they know their stuff!

[@jeffreywolf5235]

I heard that they high-efficiency furnace only saves you 3 to $5 a month on your gas bill. To me that is just absurd to pay another $500 for the machine over an 80% and then the fact that the more efficient it is the more unreliable it is. Meaning it's going to burn out in 7 to 10 years where an 80% will last 30 40 50 years. Mine is 45 years old right now. And I just had to finally replace the gas valve for the first time. Right here the gas valves life expectancy is only 10 to 15 years?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

It depends on what you’re paying for gas… you have to extract the gas portion of your bill (less fees, for example Xcel out here charges $40 a month just to be on the grid and using zero gas). On propane it can be staggering because out here your bill can be $1000 a month to heat your home so a high efficiency really pays off quick… on natural gas in Denver though with $100 natural gas bill it can take 10 years to break even on the difference in the install costs. We always just ask people what their plans are and what’s important to them

[@pablopicaro7649]

Look at your cost of gas plus taxes and fees based on usage only. Probably about $7/Therm (1 therm=100067Btu). Calculate savings from efficiency rating. 80%/95%=84.2% so 15.8% less gas used. IF $1000/year in GAS cost (not fixed fees). then with better unit gives $158/year saved. over 20 years would be $3160 (disregarding any increases in repair cost - impossible to predict).

[@JayWozz]

It's not always about the money. For example, the major factor in my decision is to help the environment (as he pointed out in the video), but not be completely reliant on one power source (electricity).

[@jeffreywolf5235]

@@JayWozz unfortunately I'm on disability for the last 22 years so everything is about the money for me because all I get is a very small amount from SSDI. So everything I do has to be cost-effective or else it doesn't happen. And I have to do with all the work myself because I don't have any money to pay anyone else to do the work for me. It's hard enough for me to just get parts are materials to do the repairs.. have a good day

[@JayWozz]

@@jeffreywolf5235 I'm sorry; that sounds rough, and I totally understand that different people have different situations and priorities. My comment was just to ensure that people understood the other potential priorities. I'm not wealthy, by any means, but I do give back to people (especially my disabled aunt) and the environment whenever I can afford to. Take care of yourself, and I wish you the best!

[@Lake_Lover]

I'm surprised that nothing was mentioned about size of the home. I live in Illinois (poor me) - lol and every hvac tech I talked to mentioned that putting in a H.E. furnace in my house wouldn't really have much advantage because I'm only 1236 sq ft. The higher cost of the HE furnace plus service calls wouldn't be worth it. I'm also hearing about the new(er) 2 stage units. My son put in a brand new 2 stage unit (Bryant) in a 1050 sq ft house. I'm wondering just how much - or little savings there is on that unit vs. a std 80% unit considering the higher price of the 2 stage unit. One might be better off spending the additional cost of an HE unit on insulation etc - making your house easier to heat and cool. Thoughts?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yes on smaller homes and even large ones too insulation is always something worth investing in first. Doors / windows seals and tightening things up can also make the space a lot more comfortable although new windows can be quite an expensive project so it’s not usually a good bang for your buck in terms of savings

[@frankd8957]

How about the frequency of repairs and cost of repairs for a standard 80% unit vs a high efficiency unit? More parts and more complex parts typically means more service calls.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yes this happens for sure… condensation introduces a new problem to address

[@MrRjnr]

I'm in California. What do u think about getting a high-end Goodman GSXV9 or GVXC20 variable speed inverter AC unit, & pairing it with "just" an 80% furnace? (GMVC80)...furnace is in the attic 😁

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yes an 80% furnace in California is fine assuming you’re not in Lake Tahoe or someplace cold, but yes 80% is plenty for most of Cali especially if you have a heat pump as your primary heat source. For AC only same is true because if you’re in a mild climate (San Diego, Orange County, LA, etc) you don’t need a high efficiency furnace at all. I would just make sure the system is sized for the load because several systems I’ve seen in Cali (have family and friends out there) are way oversized and unnecessarily big for the climate. I’ve seen 120k furnaces when honestly a 40k or 60k would be fine provided the blower was big enough for the cooling load. Cooling will likely be a bigger load factor than heating in those areas

[@MrRjnr]

@@TheHVACDopeShow OK thx! I'm in the Sacramento area, so plenty hot in summer (110 today)....current AC is 4-ton, furnace is 75k (Goodman that came with the house when built); house is 2420 square feet, 2 story...system has run well for 25 yrs, so I'm inclined to replace with same ratings....any particular coil and zone control board you recommend?

[@mscurf8412]

Wish you could come out & service my 21 tear old carrier 91% 58mca080 16112. It is short cycling, code 34. Cleaned the flame sensor, after about 1.5 days the hsi failed, replaced. Still 34 code. Attempted to clean the drain hoses on the furnce & trap to condensate pump (on slab). There were rust particles in the hoses & rusted lowest screws in back of cabinet. Burner box at bottom. Also rumbling sounds from Burner box. Not sure what to do next

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Sorry for the delay just saw this comment, There’s a recall on that furnace, the heat exchanger is probably plugged up. I would have it checked for CO. The secondary heat exchanger on that system is known for “pin-holing” and if you have a sulfur smell out of the exhaust then it’s probably plugged up and bad.

[@petergunn9149]

I have a hydronic gas boiler that heats my house as well my hot water tank as one unit it’s from 1960 and still running.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Cast iron boilers are great and yes we’ve pulled out boilers from the early 1900’s… the oldest one we removed was over 100 years old before the heat exchanger finally cracked and starting leaking water

[@Paysoncougarfan.7885]

I have a Rheem AC & Furnace, single stage & 80%. Both are working fine but they are 18 years old. Can I replace the AC now and wait a year to replace the Furnace. We are retired and have saved up to pay cash. Have enough for the AC and probably not the Furnace. We could wait another year and do both later?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yeah I would try to get a good deal in the off season (whenever the weather is mild) since most companies wheel and deal that time of year. You can definitely do it that way or you can replace the furnace and coil in the fall before winter, and then install the condenser the following spring, and that can help break up the costs. Or waiting a year if everything works ok isn’t a bad idea, a lot of companies do package discounts because it is a cleaner install to do them both at the same time!

[@davehuber6949]

You should also look at a 80 % pulls air from your house so you have cold air coming into your home for combustion. We size the furnace for the coldest day and so 90% of the time the furnace is oversized this is why a 2 stage is a much better option. I removed a 100 thousand btu furnace from my house installed a 80 thousand btu 2 stage Bryant 90 I furnace my furnace runs on low fire 75% of the heating season in northern Minnesota

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

That is very true and in Minnesota a high efficiency is definitely worth it… Boulder is a very strict municipality in Colorado for efficiency and building codes and one of the interesting things is they require an recovery ventilator because when insulation is as tight as it is nowadays, you can actually not get enough air exchange with the outside (which can make it stuffy / uncomfortable).

[@natew48]

Also heat pumps are absolute garbage here in Minnesota. Get so many calls from people saying they don't keep up

[@pault477]

@@natew48 well yeah - that is why you must have a back up furnace to go on at 40 F

[@pault477]

Are there more issues with 90% efficient furnaces

[@davehuber6949]

@@pault477 most the problems I ran into is incorrectly installed are sized I have a Bryant 90 I that is 15 years old haven't even changed the igniter change filters monthly. But to be honest have only pulled burned assembly to clean 2 times. But it is probably like the munchkin boilers got a bad name 9 out of 10 that I ended up getting involved with where not installed correctly and that is what give them a bad rep the installers threw the installer manual in the trash and Installed it just like a 80% boiler

[@sophiathe380sl]

Thanks for explaining this. My HVAC guy went with the cheapest (80%) and I didn't question it. I'm questioning it now because I just got a $720 gas bill (165 therms) for one month. Should I have someone rip the furnace out ( 3 years old) and replace it with a 90%? I'm wondering if it's worth the investment.

[@DrewBarnett144]

that’s because the price of natural gas went up 300% on January 1st

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Correct gas prices have skyrocketed recently. If climate allows and you can find a reliable contractor that is familiar with heat pumps, a high efficiency heat pump that can pair with an 80% furnace is good (depending on the climate) because the furnace can act as backup heat when it’s really cold.

[@pat750]

I've heard you talk about pairing an inverter heat pump (Daikin Fit?) with an 80% furnace in a dual fuel setup. Doesn't the inverter heat pump have to communicate with the furnace to vary the speed of the blower for both heating and cooling? An 80% furnace would not typically have a variable speed blower or communicating capability. How would that setup work?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

DM80VC is a two stage variable speed system and communicates with the Fit

[@pat750]

@@TheHVACDopeShow I did see that after I sent the comment. Thanks for the response.

[@glevideo]

Just 3 weeks ago we had a Bryant 5 ton Variable Speed inverter air source heat pump installed with a 24 SEER outdoor unit. It replaces an older open loop water source heat pump which had lost much of it's capacity to heat. Natural gas is not available here so our choices were limited. This new system has DOUBLED our electric usage. I even have the electric heating portion programmed out on the communicating thermostat yet the power bill has doubled according to the charts on the power company web site while monitoring our daily usage. This doesn't seem efficient to me.

[@MarkBeckstrom]

Very interesting and informative. My complaint is the annoying sounds added whenever a graphic is shown. I watched to the end but almost quit halfway through. All I ask is WHY? It does not enhance or better inform.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Part of it is engagement and what people expect from a video in order to stay engaged, we have newer content coming out and always looking to strike a balance to get the best viewing experience. Thanks for the comment and feedback!

[@DGill48]

Ten years ago, state building regs and the "architect" conspired, and left me with a hi efficency in my attic. Total distaster. Tried everything to stop it from freezing....4 different ways to drain, heat tapes, extra insulation, finally had to junk it and buy an 80%

[@pablopicaro7649]

Look at your cost of gas plus taxes and fees based on usage only. Probably about $7/Therm (1 therm=100067Btu). Calculate savings from efficiency rating. 80%/95%=84.2% so 15.8% less gas used. IF $1000/year in GAS cost (not fixed fees). then with better unit gives $158/year saved. over 20 years would be $3160 (disregarding any increases in repair cost - impossible to predict).

[@KPHVAC]

If you plan to stay in your home for a long time, and you are on Propane I would go with a Heat Pump!! Yes they are expensive but you get AC and might save $2,000 a year on Propane!!

[@wally6193]

Right, and expect to have to replace it again in 8 years or less. Not exactly a great value.

[@KPHVAC]

@@wally6193 A quality Heat Pump should last 15 to 20 years. Trane, American Standard, Mitsubishi, Daikin, and Carrier, Bryant, and Lennox are all pretty darn reliable.

[@wally6193]

@@KPHVAC I don't believe that, sorry. Known too many people who have had problems.

[@KPHVAC]

@@wally6193 That's understandable. There are plenty of contractors that do terrible work and unreliable brands. Every year, I see dozens of failed furnaces and heat pumps that are 8 to 12 years old. It's almost always a Coleman, Goodman, York, or Maytag.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Agreed or run a natural gas line if at all an option that pays for itself typically too, but still recommend backup heat like an electric heat strip kit. The best inverter heat pumps still really start to lose capacity in my experience after they hit 10 degrees or so. Our works great and we’ve used in -20 before (VRV life) but our primary heat source is a boiler so the heat pump just supplements and provides forced air to help get things up to temp.

[@LScofield1]

I appreciate the information. Best wishes!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Thank you and likewise!

[@N1ghtF1re]

My house has 2 high efficiency furnaces, one in the finished basement and one on the 2nd floor. When we get near 0° F, the moisture in the chimney and the drain start to freeze and they shut down, forcing us to use portable heaters and both fireplaces. The people I've had out to look at them have all said pretty much the same thing, wait until it thaws. The exhaust on the basement furnace comes out the side of the house, between floors ~8' off the ground, it has an ice sheet all the way down the wall.

[@scottwebber652]

I’ve seen a stalagmite of ice on horizontal exhaust in the gwn.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yikes, that sounds like a pain. You can also insulate as much of the exhaust as possible especially if the exhaust is running outside that can cause issues like freezing. If there’s an ice sheet down the wall the exhaust can probably be redirected to point away from the home although depending on the region the existing exhaust termination may be vented in a way that avoids wind exposure as wind can cause false pressure switch trips / issues. But the exhaust shouldn’t freeze if the furnace is in a conditioned space, but I’ve seen this happen when a large section of exhaust is running outside but not insulated (meaning if you have 5 or 10’ of pipe or something outside). Just food for thought but someone should be able to identify the issue or prevent that from happening. Do you know what the error code is? If it’s a pressure switch it can also be from the furnace not being tilted forward enough to drain properly (it only needs a VERY slight forward tilt) but if it’s tilting towards it’s back what happens is on very very cold nights the condensate builds up enough to affect pressure conditions in your furnaces heat exchanger / exhaust system, so that would be something to check too

[@hoffrun]

I have a high efficiency furnace , and was advised to always run the fan which seems to be effective. Is this true with all furnace installations , and do some furnaces run more quietly than others ? My technician suggested that with the next replacement , to consider a less efficient unit.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yes some run quieter, depending on why they recommend fan on that may be a recommendation to counter poor original duct design or just troubled areas or a sizing concern, but if your bills are low and have a smaller home an 80% isn’t a bad option although this may change in future years as gas prices fluctuate

[@turboice]

What about if the attic is spray foamed? Would it be okay to put a HE furnace in there since it is somewhat temperature controlled?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

In a conditioned space, yes 100%... if it's the same temp as the outside though that's where you have issues because it drops below freezing. but if the attic is within the envelope of the home it's not an issue

[@SavedByFaithInJesus]

Excellent poster on the left side....

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Haha Thanks, very close attention to detail!!

[@SavedByFaithInJesus]

@@TheHVACDopeShow Sooory, I forgot to say thanks for the video... very informative. Electrician by trade, sorry I put an outlet in your cold air return...

[@shiddy.]

thanks for taking the time to make this

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Thanks for watching!

[@vincentfauconnier1460]

hi. my home is equipped with a Rheem classic 90 plus in the basement and i'm starting to look into replacing it and the AC unit. i'm in central Illinois and the system pulls air from inside the house. I have city gas so wondering what I should replace this with ?

[@igor_oak_tree]

I am west of Chicago, 20 years ago had installed American Standard Hi, Eff 2 Stage furnace 100 k BTU and 3 ton AC for my 3 k sg. ft house . No problem at all , just clean up Honeywell electronic filter 2 x year. I have try avoid collect exhaust condensate inside , pitch pipe to outside, but it took a week build up big ice cube /2x2 ft/ in subzero temp/ I turned it backward and ice slash to half. Now I collect condensate in sump pump and runs tru Neutralize/ Cartridge / must when cast iron submersible pumps into cast iron sewer because of acidity. This is no needed for condensate from AC coil.

[@garyangelstad5212]

In canada you have no choice to take a high eff. 80% eff furnaces are not for sale here anymore

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

I’ve heard!

[@artfordlowery490]

My Heating Ac 😩 contractor here in North Carolina suggested installing high efficiency heat pump in MY attic and said it would last longer, I'd said please 🙏 installing in Crowell space under the house 🏠 the help keep it dry

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

High efficiency heat pump should be fine in the attic, that’s not a high efficiency furnace different technology

[@davidgordon8102]

You say only 80 percent, but I remember the old days when you were getting only 60 percent sometimes not even 60. And so many were oversized for the space they heated it was almost criminal. I've replaced many furnaces with one that was half the btu input and the customers gas bill went down by half. On another note there are millions of high efficiency furnaces in Attics that work perfectly fine 99 percent of the time.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yes we are normally reducing our system sizing when replacing systems since often they were oversized… and yes the high efficiency’s work fine 99% of the time in an attic, but when they don’t it’s the coldest night of the year because there’s no envelope to insulate it and it can’t keep itself warm with -10 degree temps. That’s the only reason we advise against them in attics, they always have cold night service calls in the winter out here in Colorado

[@mentalgame5608]

What if the Attic is fully Insulated? Is an attic still a good place to put a High efficiency furnace?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Fully insulated and part of the conditioned space is fine, it’s just to prevent condensate from freezing

[@microcolonel]

Whether your furnace is in the attic or not, if you have an unconditioned attic with ducts in it, you are throwing away a massive amount of your heat anyway.

[@Pabliskis]

I'm in Canada. We installed a high efficiency furnace in our unfinished attic and it still surviving -45°C. However, we built an insulated room with 2x4 around the furnace and the Nest thermostat never allows the room to be below +5°C. So it is doable to install a high efficiency in an unfinished attic. Also, I installed an electric heater in there. I have never used it but it is in there as a back up incase of a furnace failure.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Backup heat is always smart and that's definitely the way to go with those types of temps, and creating an envelope for the furnace will prevent the issues I was referencing.

[@anonymous..-]

Heat Pump with gas emergency. Love it.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

For sure!! These are our favorite

[@kennixox262]

For a standard multi speed 80% gas furnace and 16 SEER HVAC system, got one estimate today from $62,000 to $39,000 for two systems for a 3,200 SF house. Outrageous in my opinion. I could see up to about $30,000 on the high side. Am I wrong?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

It really depends on the companies overhead and the market you are in. I know I’ve heard of bids higher than that in places with very high costs of living (heard someone in Northern California quoted 8k for a basic water heater). That definitely seems high but again if that’s in an expensive market it might not be that out of line. My guess is you can find a reputable company to install it for less than that. Is that just for replacement of existing?

[@Default78334]

I just got a quote for around $30,000 for an 18 SEER variable-speed dual-fuel setup for two units (4-ton and 5-ton) for a 3,800 sq ft house for what it's worth.

[@kennixox262]

This was from the Costco HVAC contractor. Put in two Lennox Elite, two stage furnaces, a 4 ton & 2 ton Lennox Merit two stage, one 17 SEER 2 and there other 16 SEER 2, cost $21,000 and change by a company that also does Mitsubishi. Overall, a clean pro job. Original units did not have plenums on the return or supply side. Builder home 2005, Las Vegas. Original stuff was Lennox builder grade stuff. Original price of the house $806.000. Will be selling in a couple of years and wanted to put in a nice system but not over the top equipment. Both systems are horizontal units in the attic. This being the desert, little condensation except in monsoon season and then not much. Lived in Charleston, SC and would pump out over 5 gallons of water a day. @@TheHVACDopeShow

[@michaeldixon7961]

I know that some Goodman heat pumps use timer to do the defrost function- I have seen the time interval selections on the board. I think- but do not know if my Trane XR-12 ( Now getting somewhat old) defrosts by timer or if it senses the need for defrosting and defrosts only when necessary. One contractor told me that ALL of them just use timed defrost. If that is untrue, then he is on my do-not-call list. Can someone clarify this for me please.

[@rodneytrynor7374]

hydronic heating instead of forced air

[@davidkreimer2970]

Heat pumps will always be the lowest cost system in operation, but this system will rarely be designed for modern human comfort in extremely cold areas. Ground sourced geothermal heat pump will always be cheapest in operation in all instances, and will pass this comfort test. And it will always be cheapest in all other areas as well, with few exceptions. In addition, upon sale of a building, a cheaper operational HVAC system installed anywhere should yield better returns, based on cheaper lifetime of expenses. Furthermore, if air conditioning is required anywhere with heating, you automatically receive this with a heat pump. It is clearly a matter of 'pay now, or pay more later', in all these instances.

[@dougbrown1797]

Great points - Thanks for the advice db

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Any time!

[@andreaberryman5354]

I bought a house with single pipe condensing. No clue about them. So I'm going to have to rwplace it in 5 years then?? Our governor decided to do a natural gas ban, so I have to go electric heat next. It gets sub zero. My furnace is a good girl. It's nice to hear her fire up.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

You shouldn’t have to replace it in 5 years necessarily, is it older? The natural gas ban is annoying if you get sub zero temps then a backup furnace is definitely helpful but maybe just get a low ambient heat pump like a Daikin Fit enhanced (coming out September 23’) or VRV life, they keep up down to -10 or colder sometimes and then backup electric heat or furnace kicks in

[@craighoff7793]

I have a 96%propane that cycles too often can't set my thermostat more than just over 2 degrees separation can I get a different thermostat?

[@bcoldwell1]

Thanks for addressing this issue and mentioning landlords (me) and tree huggers (me) and people with cash laying around (not so much). I just finished a high end, SF remodel of a rental and tightened the envelope and installed solar. I tried several contractors to try to do air source heat pumps, but I found these guys living in the dark ages. This is in Minneapolis, but still, there guys really had no idea where the electrification of heat is going. Pipe fitters better start honing their refrigeration skills, that's all I can say. I damn near bought my own, but instead, ended up installing a HE gas furnace, and will have to wait until it's replacement time again to see if the word has changed. As it stands, the home uses less than half the energy it did (gas & elec) prior to renovation. And, I do regular filter changes and have annual service on all my rentals. Most decent landlords I know understand the value of keeping tenants happy and keeping their equipment operating properly.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

That's great! Tightening up the envelope / insulation is huge especially with an HE furnace, sounds like you did your research and took the right approach. More and more contractors will get on board with heat pumps as things progress but contractors tend to resist change lol and the unknown of new tech.

[@stevenbryant4718]

Is all the hand waving the DOPE part?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Nailed it 💪☝️

[@dknowles60]

nat gas use to be cheap since biden took office it went from ,36 cents per cubic ft to 1.20 dollars per cubic ft

[@Garth2011]

Yes and the cost of gas never changed for the energy companies. The Governement must be taxing the industy who supplies gas to the utility co's in a big way. Our bills show "cost of gas used" the gas used and then "cost for distrubution" which is the cost our local utility charges to bring it and run their business. Our bills have doubled in just one year and the bill shows "cost of gas used" as the rate that went up, not our gas company so that is how the feds are collecting all of that revenue Trump said we were going to get screwed on if Biden/Green New Deal/Pelosi/Schumer etc. get their way. Also, this has much to do with the UN focus, another cluster Trump said was a waste of the citizens money.

[@ArcolaBridge]

Am I supposed to clean my heat exchanger? In my 2,700 sqft house I have an Amana Air Command High efficient 90 Plus. The house was built in 1988, I think this is the original furnace? It has a stainless steel secondary heat exchanger I'm told? I replaced the igniter and the draft inducer as the nuts that were holding it to the screws rusted and fell off between the back of the turbine and the housing and jammed up the motor and overheated it. It has three flames and they all seem to be going down the tube pretty quick and narrowing to where you can't see them anymore, the one on the furthest side of the gas supply is a little less symmetrical that way compared to the other two but I don't see any roll out and the damn thing works well. I have a 6-in Merv 15 plus carbon 25x30x6 filter housing with an April air that I keep the house at about 65 to 75% humidity and I just keep the Central fan on 24/7.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

It may be original could tell based on the serial and age if it has an “88” or “89” in it might be… asymmetrical burn on one of the burner chambers could be blow back from a crack or rusted out tube… you can this if it burns evenly on startup and then when the blower motor (main fan) kicks on if the flame spits back or changes at all, it can be an indication of that issue. Or just a dirty burner assembly (pulling and cleaning that / removing dust will fix that too)

[@Rickmakes]

* unconditioned attic. You can install in a conditioned attic.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Correct, lots of people have commented on this. I should have been more clear, within the envelope of the home

[@erkl8823]

I feel AWFUL for anyone having to buy propane. I haven't seen prices in awhile now, but around 20yrs ago, when i still lived with my parents, they were going through $900 worth in just over 5 weeks... which is obviously INSANE, you could BUY A GD *HOUSE* FOR THAT!!!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

For sure Propane is outrageous oftentimes we put in a heat pump if we can, or geothermal starts to make sense at those prices

[@stephenjenner484]

In Canada many crawl spaces are becoming encapsulated which means they are perfect for the installation of a HE Furnace. Why would anyone want a mid efficiency 80% putting 400+ plus degrees of heat out the chimney. You would have to be crazy especially with carbon taxes in Canada

[@williambrennan5701]

high efficiency = high repairs. you can pay in utilities or you can pay the repair man but your going to pay , one option leaves u cold till the repair man fixes it . if you put solar in to run heat pumps in a rental the Tenants just set the air conditioner to ridiculously low temps in summer and high in winter . be sure to install a thermostat that's about impossible to remove . put the thermostat wire inside conduit and an actual lock on the air conditioner maintenance panel outside . Tenants will just cross the red yellow orange and green wires . seen this done before. they had a stripped out area of wire just before the ac outside where they would cross the wires to override the 78 max temperature setting on the ac . they kept it tucked under the large pipes insulation and wrapped the wires in clear tape. the only thing that slows them down on abusing your HVAC equipment is that high electric bill . they don't have to know what they are doing either this came up just now on a KZbin search. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZaYpnd7fcZ3pKM

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Very true!

[@mikerozic7225]

Thank You!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Likewise thanks for watching!

[@WhittyPics]

Does the same apply to heat pumps

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Not sure which part you’re referencing but no not at all, different tech in how they work. Heat pumps are fine in attics and won’t cause issues

[@erkl8823]

Well, why do you think even *we* call *ourselves* "CON-tractors"...? We're just trying to *take your $* !!!

[@Mulagin1]

Can I install an 80% propane furnace without having a chimney?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

You’ll always need to run an exhaust somewhere

[@HobbyOrganist]

I installed my 96% 80K BTU Goodman furnace and all the ductwork and the electric and gas line myself last Sept to replace the old Lennox G11-e, 80% 110K BTU used furnace I installed in 2003 in my house that never had any ductwork. That old Lennox was probbaly WORSE than 80% when you factor in that open to the sky 5" flue and that the furnace took all it's combustion air from the room (basement) which meant it was pulling heat down from above and cold air in every little crack and gap anywhere, the 96% Goodman takes all it's combustion air directly from outside, it's also 80K BTU instead of the 110K BTU the Lennox was, so the savings should be significant from the 16% more efficient plus no more cold air dropping down the 5" flue when the Lennox was off, or the cold air pulled in while it was running! then the fact it's 80K instead of 110K and keeps the house easily at the 73 the thermostat is left on

[@staticsock]

Great info!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Thanks our pleasure!!

[@hkgonra]

The #1 question for potential contractors is how do you intend to get rid of the condensate. If a pump is anywhere in their answer run far away from that contractor !

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

If there’s no floor drain sometimes it’s the only way, with a safety switch wired in pumps work fine usually, and have a 5 year life or so. We show people how to replace them it’s pretty simple but it’s important to wire in the safety switch

[@glenarseneau4796]

Their is good rebates for high efficiency furnaces also not just on solar

[@nejdro1]

3rd reason not to buy the high efficiency furnace: Because the HE furnace draws outside air, it is not automatically changing the household air by sending it up the flue , as does the lower efficiency furnace. This means that to keep your house air from starting to smell stale, you will need a mechanical air exchange to bring in fresh air, OR you can open your windows now and then to change the air. SO MUCH FOR HIGH EFFICIENCY! The same phenomenon happens in summer when you run the A/C for long periods and your wife complains the house is starting to smell and opens all the windows!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Very true! Then you end up having to put in an HRV (recovery ventilator) to bring in fresh air. It’s definitely a double edged sword

[@virgil3241]

For a family, the air exchange thing isnt much of an issue. With people coming and going all the time and doors being opened, dont you get a lot of air exchange that way anyway. Perfect method, no. Guess it all depends where you live and dont need to worry about outside air quality.

[@frankd8957]

Yes, but by using inside air for combustion in the 80% furnaces and then exhausting it the indoor humidity will drop very low if it is cold and the unit runs a fair amount. If furnace is not in the home proper, like a crawl space, this is not an issue. Placing a humidifier on the furnace will help but it takes Btu's to evaporate the water. The wood in the home will dry out. Newer homes have a timer installed on the bathroom exhaust fans to exhaust some air every hour.

[@nejdro1]

@@frankd8957 I never had problems keeping the household humidity up, either with a furnace mounter humidifier or a free standing humidifier. That was in Chicago's very cold weather. Here in Portland where I now live, winter time humdity is not a problem, as it is much milder and humid outside.

[@virgil3241]

@@frankd8957 Blanket statements like the video, or this, aren't for every scenario. Everyone lives in different places. What works for you wont work for someone else. Think heating in Texas is the same as Alberta, Canada? And the same for cooling. As for low humidity, that can be controlled with a humidifier. And when its extremely cold, as in -40, you want low humidity in the house otherwise your windows get condensation on them.

[@AngeloScarcia-o7e]

can I take a 9000 btu mini split AC 19 SEER and put a 2 Ton A coil in my plenum run two system AC

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Probably not unless it’s designed for that. The system setup design you’re describing is VRV life, it can connect to multiple heads and central air

[@nicholashaines4136]

also if your super rural diy because chances are your hvac guys are not content to make 3-4 k on labor and also want to make 5k on upselling the equipment, industries like this thrive on customer ignorance so thank you hvac dope show for uploading excellent information

[@garyangelstad5212]

Heat pumps wont generate enough heat in the colder climates. Might work in the lower mainland of bc, and hydro is cheaper but other than that the heat pump system, whether its air sourced or ground sourced, is always installed with a back up elec system

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Or backup dual fuel

[@sssssnake222]

There is one ultra-critical step that one must take when installing a furnace of any efficiency, you must perform a heat rise before the job is finished. All furnaces come over fired from the factory. If you do not reduce the gas pressure to the burners before you leave the job, expect to have your name thrown in the mud.