Furry Webtoons: Right and Wrong

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[@JackvsWebtoon]

kzbin.info/door/qJ41DvJN0f0nt7YgGtkucw

[@mr.mlaststandsite813]

Ok I’m the first one here so what is your take on tamberlane?

[@abbadullreee3298]

Hello jack,could you pls talk about the X-venture comics on your main channel? I've been asking for 8 days

[@kyrohowe3156]

​@abbadullreee3298 looking forward to that

[@JolyBatlove21]

The fate comic is a very tough subject at one hand the message they bring and the story telling is just gross and wrong but the art is really good and I know that doesn’t excuse the athurs but it’s well made and I have to give it credit for that at least. I also want to say that your reason for hating are valid I think the worse part about the comic is that its the most well nown furry webtoons comic and that’s just sad since their are better ones out their that most people have no idea about.

[@jcj268]

I love Africa. One of the first webcomics I ever read

[@decusq]

Honestly when it comes to the argument on "Why make them animal people?" I honestly don't think you need a reason to tie into the plot or have some deep meaningful reason. Sometimes animal people are just cooler. It's like asking Yoko Taro "Why did you dress those androids like Sexy Samurai Maids in Nier Automata" his response "I like girls" he could have tried to come up with a poignant reason like how the Androids are in servitude to their purpose and reason for existence... but he just liked the design. Not everything needs a proper explanation or point to exist, sometimes it just does.

[@Rexneous]

Yes, this right here. Some times I just want to enjoy something for the sake of it and not have to overthink tiny details in everything like a Fnaf game.

[@Gamerguy-ud1zo]

For shows like Bojack Horseman at times it can feel like it’s just to make a bunch of animal jokes in the background, but the type of animal they are does factor into part of the personality the character has and the world building does form itself around the fact that half the population is miscellaneous species that even have their unique cities with the under water city being one of my favorites.

[@InfinitySevens]

Almost all of my OCs were kemonomimi and I had some mutuals who were into Arknights (famous for its kemonomimi and anthro characters) who pretty much told me "they just are" when I asked about the lore reason. Lore functionality is neat but nothing is wrong with "rule of cool", and I still like to factor in behavioural quirks into my OCs related to the specific animal.

[@Rexneous]

@@InfinitySevens where can I find your OCs they sound interesting?

[@insertnamehere3794]

True,I have ocs that are demon species and they coexist with humans I only did it bc I think is cool lol

[@galacticdevil]

Am I the only annoyed by the fact that carnivores are always depicted as evil while all herbivores are always depicted as good. We need carnivores to hunt animals as means of controlling the animal population and to ensure the survival of vital plant species. Herbivores are far from helpless and the most dangerous animals are elephants and hippos. Carnivores are the most dangerous when they’re hungry, or when their offspring is in danger. We really shouldn’t be forcing our human concept of morality on to animals. So many animals were wiped to extinction because of this.

[@Doub1eSpark]

Lion Guard is my go-to for this strangely enough. They establish in the first episode that there's no evil in eating meat, but also establish that the villains were evil because they hunted for fun instead of food. Hunting is brought up in a positive light many times in the series despite the herbivores and carnivores often being friends.

[@VOLCAION]

@@Doub1eSpark LION GUARD MENTIONED 🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@alleirgunthyi]

Africa does it too, well kinda, theres both they hunt only for food but theres mean ones like Chui the Lions and one Hyenna thats jealous of the matriarch

[@Idkbro-rg9bn]

​@@Doub1eSpark OMG I LOVE LION GUARD

[@gayrurumon]

I totally get what you're saying, but I will say that the idea of "carnivores hunt to control the prey populations" could potentially get weird and eugenics-y in a setting where both predator and prey are sapient. Although even then, that idea could potentially be an interesting one to explore in the hands of a skilled enough writer.

[@NopeScope14]

I remember I was about 16 when Africa came out on DeviantArt. The artist was so friendly to the commenters and it was a warm welcoming to my first view on anthro comics. Arven probably has a lot of her other works on the site, which I absolutely adore to this day

[@Almonds24768]

The continent of Africa is gay???

[@splitdragon3004]

I recently had an interaction with the creator. They were a complete jerk. I said something along the line (on a KZbin VIDEO, not their comic) about how much I loved the comic, but had trouble waiting for pages to come out. And they went OFF on me, acting offended and basically saying "how dare you even mention how long it takes, you shouldn't have mentioned ANYTHING you didn't like" So yeah, I don't read Africa anymore

[@gayrurumon]

@@splitdragon3004 Please understand that creators of webcomics/any media that takes a long time between updates are pretty much _constantly_ pelted with comments asking for or demanding the next update, with varying levels of entitlement and nastiness. For this reason it is generally considered pretty rude to imply that a creator is not updating fast enough, even if it wasn't the intention of the commenter to come across like that. It can be a very stressful and demoralising type of comment to receive, and while that doesn't entirely excuse a rude response (although it is difficult for me to judge how rude the creator was actually being, as I haven't seen the comment in question and your description of it seems like hyperbole), I think it's important to consider why a comment like that may have caused the creator to lash out.

[@splitdragon3004]

@@gayrurumon It wasn't even on their video or their comic

[@archeduardo]

I disagree on the reasining that for a furry comic to exist it needs a reason for the characters to be furry. It's the same as asking "why did you draw this character with yellow hair? It serves no purpose! Recolor it to red!" Sometimes, furry characters exist in comics for the sole purpose that they look neat. You don't need a reason to have anthro characters in a world full of anthro characters.

[@Notyouraveragename]

Honestly i recognized the Fate's Art anywhere from a commission i got from them years back. They're a furry artist and i was surprised to hear they made the 400 page furry comic that a youtube recommendation was being ranted over. I just came over from helluva boss but i checked it out. It's just slice of life / fantasy. Sure there isn't a plot but i mean as one person said. "Omg, real life is so poorly written, half the conflicts never get resolved, people die of boring stuff like old age without resolving story lines, sometimes plot points are set up then people just move or die or forget and nothing ever happens, and people can find out anything with one smart phone search yet remain ignorant by choice for YEARS, what a terrible story, completely realistic, 0/10". As far as The Fate by Enzo Ocelot goes, i mean it just seems like fantasy, for all the people out there, sometimes the novel is written in another language. Could you speak a second language and make a sastifying story in russian to a native speaker who's spoken it their whole life? I mean, it's fair to critique media out there, just as far as i can guess, it's probably someone's passion project or webtoon slice of life / dream fic. They're a good artist and i had fun for the price and i didn't mind at all. They do charming soft men, maybe the teacher setting is a bit potentially problematic, but it's also fiction vs a insert(?) If you don't like it, don't read it, there's no harm in that. A lot of clickbait for the $ seems to forget there are passion projects for people on the other end as well of hatedoms for clicks$.

[@tultsi93]

ikr? Saying furry characters need a justified excuse to be furries isn't inherently a bad thing. In Zootopia, all characters are anthropomorphic animals, because it takes place in the world where humans never evolved. In Squirrel and Hedgehog (yes, a North Korean propaganda cartoon), the characters live in a human free universe and use their animal ablities along with weapons. In Basil the Master Detective, there are anthro animals living among with humans, but they have to hide themselves because they're not sure how humans would react to the mice who are as clever as them.

[@Notyouraveragename]

@@tultsi93 Yeah, like i skimmed through their comic a bit. It did seem kinda plotless like a slice of life / escapism webtoon but i mean. Does it have to be? Maybe for us it's plotless but for them, 400 pages with like maybe 100$/month of patreons, it's not like a show like helluva boss with questionable writing for 15 million fans. Maybe the target audience is the author's own dreams, idk. They're probably just furry out of lore because the author is a furry artist and i got commissions from them before knowing they were a furry artist. I know that might be a anticlimax but people talk about DBZ, one of the most iconic series of all time. What do furry designs have against goku vs vegeta vs trunks vs yamcha vs gohan? If you change a snow leopard's hairstyle, you don't confuse them for a lynx. If you change Goku's hairstyle, he looks like Yamcha, if you put Yamcha in a Gi, he looks like Goku, If you change Vegeta's hairline, he looks like Tien. DBZ is a goated series but literally hair swappers reveal a lot of dbz distinguishing traits are literally just hair while Lynxes vs Panthers vs Lions help you recognize characters, even if it's just fictional stand ins. Maybe it could be deeper but Zootopia did predator vs prey with prey drive, Beastars did cannibalism and im not sure i liked it. Bojack flat out had them kfc entire human sized people on growth hormones for chicken for days, and it's flat out regarded as one of the least critically acclaimed bojack episodes. Now i think if you're reading for plot it's fair to comment that there's maybe not one, but it's also a 100 likes /patreon passion project. It's probably just escapism or a wish world for them. It's alright if it's mostly for them or people into that. There's a room for deep stories like Grave of the fireflies and action movies like Transformers, but i mean the person was pretty nice. They were to the point and limited edits and did a few tweaks to the character for what they liked that weren't 100% character accurate, but they were well priced and pleasant to work with at the time, and there's still a human behind every screen. Maybe the comic is mid but im still happy that their passion project seems to be making them happy and as someone who doesn't really know them, but have commissions from them. I'd just like to politely request maybe consider the alternative pov of potentially putting your heart and soul into a maybe sappy story only 100 people would read, and seeing "OMG, THIS IS THE STUPIDIEST THING TO EVER EXIST EVER!" ON IT. WORST. STORY. EVER!!!" Yeah it's kinda slow paced and mostly just a self insert of the author spending time with a fictional crush, but i mean. Let people enjoy things without directing a hatedom at em. Even if it brings up clicks, it's kinda rude to label it "WORST COMIC EVER!!".. no?

[@ameliecarruthers3822]

​@@NotyouraveragenameNot only is it romanticizing grooming but its also on webtoon, and predominantly 12-14 year old fanbase, which is wildly inappropriate

[@tultsi93]

@@Notyouraveragename Dragon Ball series takes place in the universe where dinosaurs never died off and aliens exist. Anthros have absolutely no reason not to exist in that universe. Beastars is compared to Zootopia because of its character designs and themes revolving around racism, but it's very dark and not meant for kids. In BoJack Horseman, there are anthro animals living among with humans, because they are their own race. You're supposed to think them as humans with animalistic traits. The Fate; if the characters were humans, the story wouldn't change. The major problem with The Fate is that it glamorizes toxicity and grooming, and romanticizes teacher/student relationships. If the characters were adults, it still would be problematic, because teacher is an authority figure and can easily manipulate the student. The author of The Fate is highly disrespectful towards her friend, since she normalizes it. Yes, she confirmed she based the protag on her friend, and the comic on her situation. She's showing to young impressionable teenage girls going on a relationship with their own teachers is alright.

[@wigmanmania259]

Animal Jingoism is never a requirement, but it is a powerful visual narrative tool, like, if the bully is a wolf, then of course it would make sense for the nerd to be a sheep, thus making their relationship instantly understandable

[@lettucetheleafwing]

my visible horror whenever Jack brings up The Fate

[@mullerpotgieter]

Honestly, you don't really need a "reason" to do anthro characters. The creepy statutory comic for self gratification is one of few instances where its really creepy. But just look back at classic Disney. Robin Hood is a beloved classic. Could you replace all the characters with humans? Yes, easily. But you'd also lose a lot of the charm. The artists had fun designing these characters. The animals they chose for many of them helps reinforce some of the themes. Like how many of the peasants are small rabbits, so they're easier to oppress. The king is a lion, a symbol of royalty, but also scrawny, Its not deep symbolism, but its just more fun to watch. Anthro characters can easily offer up a lot of fun and variety. Simple as

[@marocat4749]

But robin hood makes really good use of the symbolism as shortcut for characters. Robin sly for example. That is making something of it.

[@mullerpotgieter]

@@marocat4749 Its doubtless playing into it, but not essential like Zootopia or Beaststars. More just icing on the cake. And again, you have more variety in designs

[@PantherCat64]

I enjoy drawing anthro characters more than humans (I suck it either way but I enjoy it more). Yet for a comic I’ve been trying to make, thought there’s doubts at every turn, for some reason despite the fact I wasn’t going to make them furries, I somehow ended up with a king cheetah and a… uh… we’ll if I told you what it’s inspired by you wouldn’t get the right image, but point is neither designed was meant to be a furry. The first is just because the design was too complex but wanted those cheetah tear drops, so I cheated and just said “screw it he’s a cheetah now” and the other character was never meant to even existed other than a passing comment every now and then, so she’s an accident all around. So uh… yeah I wasn’t trying to have furry protagonists at all but now I have two furry space mercs, and that’s okay because I’m proud of my two furry space mercs. Came out better than the original idea.

[@shanon2ns]

taking the opportunity to recommend Tamberlane, it features an animal based society and follows a human child as she grows up and everyone around her tries to figure out what she is without breaking the archaic laws that restrict the flow of information.

[@cat_mama]

I know that one!

[@jamesjustjamesclgames6574]

The art is very good

[@mylastaccountgotdeletedtha6936]

Now how can I make this about TwoKinds, dreamkeepers, HousePets, and Lackadaisy?

[@strangeaelurus]

HOLY SHIT I WAS OBSESSED WITH TWOKINDS A FEW YEARS BACK

[@pierre-mariecaulliez6285]

Don't forget Slightly Damned and Prequel ;7

[@jazzratoon]

I love housepets, sadly it hasn't been update since February last year.

[@PantheraArven]

OH GOD HI!! 😂 It was such an amazing surprise to see this video in my feed and I wanted to say thank you TONS for your kind words about the comic ❤️ it absolutely means the world to me that you like it so much. A lot of work goes into every single page, and to know that the project is so beloved, makes it all worth it ❤️ it makes me so incredibly happy that you often bring it up as an example of a good comic, and I hope that you enjoy the future pages :) I understand what you mean regarding giving a reason for characters being anthro. It's a valid argument. Storytelling is not only about the characters, but also the world they live in. In order to make a fictional world more believable, the author should take the time to show how the characters affect the world they live in, and how the world affects them. Animals and humans interact with the world in very different ways. If we make an otherwise human character anthropomorphic, we should reflect that in the world the character lives in. How does the infrastructure around them change? Do they live in a different shaped house? How do they drive a car? How do they drink from a glass? Why are they using otherwise human items, if they do not fit their biology at all? It's all these little details that can break the immersion of the story, and make it look like the characters are anthro "just cause". Zootopia is a good example of a well built universe. The characters are all humanoid animals, but the movie takes extra care to explain why they all live together and most importantly, how. They each have their own infrastructure that matches their biology, and they are the way they are for a reason. They still do things that we can empathise with as humans, but they do them in their own unique, animal-like ways. I hope this makes sense hahah 😂

[@MasterThunda22]

Hi Arven!

[@kikodalaya0601]

YIPEE JACK UPLOADED

[@Gabriel-Crandall]

Skeleton or samurai?

[@slimedserpent]

I don't think any character inherently NEEDS a reason to be the species or form they are. I do agree that you're point is good, but it's one of those things that come down to preference. A lack of reason isn't really a 'wrong' way to do it as much as it's just that having a reason makes things a lot better. And I do agree, I enjoy characters that are affected by their species in some way whether it be acting as the species usually would or having some feature that's relevant to the plot.

[@Gamerguy-ud1zo]

It would be interesting if Jack did an analysis of Bojack Horseman use of furry type characters which has a lot of character and world building around the fact half the people are different animals that leads to some unique scenarios like the under water city.

[@Jose04537]

I loved the puns. He slept with another man! An otter man! (It's a double pun, because it was actually an otter, and because otter is slang for a slim hairy man in the gay community; unlike a bear, which is a chubby hairy gay man)

[@sapientbirb7350]

A personal favorite of mine is Darbi, an R rated webtoon centered around a baby T. rex and the chaotic world he lives in. At first, it seems like it's just a comic for cheap shock value, but as it goes on, it takes on a more mature and spiritual tone. As a fair warning to anyone interested, there's a reason why it's rated R, and it's not just because of the blood and gore. You're going to see some things that you could have lived just fine without seeing. I do have my personal fair share of critiques, but I ultimately do enjoy it regardless and have genuinely been excited for each update.

[@luckyday915]

DARBI MENTIONED

[@BH-fr7hq]

DARBI 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@Alistorshenanigans]

RESPECT THE D

[@blackosprey2219]

Darbi mentioned!! That one is my all-time favorite!

[@RickyFSeiei]

Character being a Furry in the fate comic is a weak argument compare to normalizing Groomming for the sake of Romance. I seriously don't care if a Furry character existence needs to be justified or not. But it is more appealing than having Human character where the Market is oversaturated with Humans.

[@tultsi93]

The Fate would've been a little bit better and less problematic comic, if the protag was an ex-student of that teacher. They would dump into each other in the mall or something and being like "hey, did you use to be my teacher/student?" Then they would exchange few words and start chit chatting, and over time their friendship would develop into something more. There. I put more effort on this than the creators.

[@Jose04537]

Or... The creator actually saw no problems with it, or didn't cared 😬. Just like the manhwa Jinx, that portrays an abuse relationship as lovely and nobody points it out, because it's soft core porn barely disguised as BL.

[@tultsi93]

@@Jose04537 Except, people read The Fate and pointed out how toxic it is. And yet she told she based the comic on her friend's experiences as an abuse victim, and yet romanticized it.

[@Calbeck]

"This stuff was unheard of five to ten years ago" THE BELFRY, 20 YEARS AGO: am I a joke to you

[@DEUS_VULT_INFIDEL]

Having a reason beyond basal gratification for the characters being anthro hearkens back to a common rule of editing, being to cut parts of your work that don't contribute to the narrative in some meaningful way; Waffling exposition, overindulgent worldbuilding, pointless prose, character moments that amount to nothing, et cetera. It can be boiled down to just have a reason for everything you do, and is honestly a good rule of thumb for any kind of creative endeavor. Or any endeavor in general. And keeping them anthro as a personal conceit isn't a deal-breaker either, it's honestly worthwhile to have some in whatever you're working on as it offers you more than the mere enjoyment of the act to keep you invested and help you finish your project. It's important to like what you're doing after all.

[@TheUnmitigatedDawn]

Partly unrelated but I once saw a comment related to an LGBT work I'm a huge fan of that had a questionable artstyle. I don't remember if it was Hazbin Hotel or Rain/My Impossible Soulmate (it's probably the latter two) but the joke one of the critics said was "This looks like a furry comic but they're all humans."

[@haydenarlo1950]

It’s not that deep 😭 There doesn't need to be a reason for a character to be furry outside of the artist liking furries or wanting to draw furries Is there some deep meaningful reason your avatar is anthro?

[@ukitkatcello6306]

Hmm okay… so just thinking through your talking points here… The Fate is very bad because it is a comic about grooming a high schooler that doesn’t have much other substance to the plot. Afrika is good because it has its own engaging plot (for all the right reasons and not because grooming and hormone bait), and world building. You can choose to have your characters be furries for any reason you want… but it can make the world of your comic more interesting if those characters being furries actually affects the narrative (versus making a plot where they are human wouldn’t change anything about the narrative). I do like this take and it’s making me think about all the stories I’ve written in the past and trying to decide if the characters being furries actually made a difference in my world building or if it was just kinda there…. Definitely a good tool to use going forward-how does what the character is affect the plot? If that doesn’t have any effect, what messages does the audience take away that may not have been intended based on what the character is? How can we address those potential messages/ideas if they are not what the author wants to include in their story?

[@krnatsu]

The moment I saw this video pop up, I knew exactly why Afrika succeeds and why The Fate FUMBLED. One was made with intentions to have anthropomorphic animal characters, the other tacts it on because...reasons. It's actually why I'd argue Zootopia was so successful and why Sing, is brainrot. Not just because Zootopia, generally speaking, is just a superior story in almost every conceivable way, but because much like Jack mentions, they're animals for a reasons. The prey/predator dynamic is meant to be an analogy for biases, assumptions and prejudices. Nick is a fox because that animal is typically associated with being sny, sneaky and mischievous, all features Nick displays. Conversely I'm the entire run time of Sing, there's only ONE instance where what specific animal the characters are is recognised, that being the porcupine headbanging, whilst spewing quills everywhere. Other than that, it doesn't inform anything about any of the characters that they're animals, that's how shallow it is. 2 examples I think are great ways to integrate anthropomorphic animals into a story are BNA and Beast Wars (I'll explain dw). Much like Zootopia, BNA is using the Beast Men as an allegory for social commentary, but each character is shown as a particular animal to reflect their personality. Shiro of course is the long wolf, the alabtross is a pilot who flies across the world (its been a while since I watched BNA, so I only remember Shiro and Michiru's names), the wheezel girl is sly, conniving and manipulative. Beast Wars is obviously just, what if Transformers became animals, but still, each character is a particular animal for a reason. Cheetor is a scout, young and basically the Bumble Bee of the Maximals, hence he's a Cheetor. Megatron is the leader of the Predacons, so turning into a T-Rex asserts that he's their "king" and his desire to claim what G1 Megatron could not, ruling Cybertron and Earth. All of these I've mentioned are also very simple integrations of these ideas, so it baffles me that something like The Fate or Sing, treats it like a gimmick. I'm not a furry myself, but I do agree with Jack that if you're characters are anthropomorphic, there has to be a REASON other than, "why not?"

[@terryfik_1759]

Holy shrimp Beast Wars mention!!! Did not expect that at all omg You make rlly good points btw! Totally agree :)

[@calebpribyl5152]

Usually they pick an animal character (for platforming!) They try to either use it to make it look cool! (Like sonic) Or they try to use a characteristics of an animal (like how GEX uses to climb onto walls and use his tongue to grab objects for power ups! I remember when I was VERY little there was this show called “Between the lions” and after the show there was this sponsor for a restaurant called “chic fil a” and it featured a cow in a white background with a sign that reads “all in favor say moo!” I wonder why did that pick cows for their CHICKEN RESTAURANT but after getting older it makes sense when you think about it! These cows fight these restaurants called “circus burger” (you can guess what that’s a reference to!)

[@vinegardoppio5501]

I'm really happy that you've reviewed Africa by arven. They've been working on Africa for years and I'm glad they're getting recognition

[@MidnightMosaic]

Theres plenty of amazing comics on Webtoons that use anthro characters and I feel like they utilize those animal traits so well in their storytelling. I highly recommend Synthetic Instinct, a si-fi dystopian story about anthro animals and machines living in a society, and it even tackles the logistics of that world specifically with interspecies relationships, the artist does a beautiful job at illustrating the world and the amount of detail in every issue is insane. Another comic I would highly recommend is Tamberlane, a beautifully kinda cozy style comic about an animal society living in a small village when the main character stumbles upon a human baby, it is so fuking good holy shit.

[@Thesnake1312]

I don’t think making characters anthro has anything to do with anything, and doesn’t lend to the quality at all. It’s cool and all when there’s attributes included that have to do with the characters being anthro, but it doesn’t bring a story down at all either way. Why even bring up the point? Just my opinion

[@Camizuchi]

in the comic im working on both the main characters are dragonborns, while the primary reason for this was bc dragonborns are my favorite species, im still tying in a ton of world lore and plot stuff for that to make sense. I agree with what you said, if you're gonna make a comic with anthros, it shouldn't just be surface level.

[@velvi8359]

Why? Nobody else is held to this standard. Like we don't go up to artists who draw in an anime style and demand a reason for why they do so and judge whether enough if their work has enough "anime themes" in it to justify the artist's decision. If you draw anthro characters because you like drawing them, that's reason enough to draw an anthro comic. Even Jack here knowingly contradicts himself because he has examples of comics he likes that don't follow this logic. He's literally just making up an extra reason to shit on The Fate because he hates it so much.

[@Camizuchi]

@ I think Jack has a point though. Sure, you can have a good comic with anthro in it where them being anthro characters doesn’t add to the plot, but I think when it does it elevates the story even more. In my own work, making I’ve had a lot fun coming up with I twesting ideas for the lore and history of my characters’ species that I’m trying to use to elevate the narrative further. So yes you can have a good comic with surface level anthro stuff but when there is depth I think it can make the story even better

[@velvi8359]

@@Camizuchi Or you could just be adding a bunch of unnecessary lore and filler to a comic for no other reason than because you think you have to justify yourself. It doesn't automatically make your story better. YOU just personally prefer those kinds of stories, which is fine but not everybody is the same as you. Some stories benefit from not having a giant history lesson about a character's species or a complex Beastars-esque world dynamic/social hierarchy. Something like Night in The Woods benefits greatly from it's art style that I think would be lost if they were just generic cartoon humans, and there is no real reason they are animals except for maybe some minor character traits. I don't think spending hours going into why Mae is a cat would have benefited that story. That's the problem with painting with such a large brush, not everybody has the same taste and honestly it all just depends on the story and the skill of the creator. I'm also personally not a fan of Jack insinuating that the only correct way of making a furry comic is through a specific list of his own arbitrary reasons, otherwise its "degenerate filth". Like that's a bad mindset to have, why are those the only 2 examples in your head when you think 'furry comic'?

[@Notyouraveragename]

@@velvi8359 I think on the flip end it might just be youtube complaint content filling, as like a youtuber t hing not a webcomic complaint. Like you need 4 pages for a essay, but you have 2 pages of script, so you talk for 2 pages about how their noses are boring and there's not enough unicorns and you need more comments for ad revenue and your neighbors stole your hot dog.

[@Jose04537]

​​​ @Camizuchi Introducing in the narrative the fact that the characters are anthro is refreshing and if done correctly, adds to the story another layer of uniqueness. Otherwise you end up like Vivizpop. Their rendition of hell is uninspired and that setting adds nothing to the story, and barely affects the plot (and in fact, creates a lot of problems and contradictions having two stories in the same setting). It's just a shallow aesthetic, an American city with a hot topic filter over it. You could change the setting and the story would barely change. And the biblical lore is also wasted, you could had used a lot of biblical and demonical characters in a very interesting ways. For example, Adam been the one trying to redeem sinners, because of his guilt of eating the apple that Lucifer gave him. And the one doing the extermination is Abel (his son), someone who actually has a reason to hate sinners, because he was killed by his brother Cain, out of anger and jealousy. And the reason for killing sinners would be to send them to lower and lower rings of hell, for greater punishments. See? This way setting would actually be important.

[@Julie.Steam7]

I like the "arguing with yourself" bit, it shows introspection and nuance imo. It's refreshing on youtube

[@renarddubois940]

I think it's the contrary, everything should be furry unless there's a good reason for them to not be furry.. for example you want disposable villains that we're not supposed to have any empathy for, then make them humans..

[@Eusong]

I think an important thing to consider is that you *can* do whatever you want with your story. It's *your* story. But the appeal to other people is going to depend on things. Far more people will be interested in a slice of life that is human characters, than one that has them randomly furry for no lore-based reason. But if you'd rather draw them as furries and you're not concerned about how big your audience can potentially get, just do it!

[@nadibeast7664]

I have ideas for two furry comics, the first one will be with different races, not only the standard cats and dogs, but also sergals, vernids and hybrids of different animals. For example, the main character is a hybrid of a fox and a koi fish. In this world there is no police, everyone lives peacefully, no robbers, no murderers. But everything turns upside down when they find the body of one of the residents who was killed quite brutally. The city authorities tried to silence this situation saying that it must have been someone's bad joke. But this did not convince the main character, he is trying to figure out why in such an ideal world where no one had even the thought of harming someone, someone was killed. The peculiarity of this world is that thoughts or the desire to do something bad are blocked, but still there was someone who was able to bypass this restriction and do the irreparable. The main character will act according to the scheme "To find a murderer, you have to think like a murderer", over time he himself will manage to go beyond this limitation, he will start to follow the killer's heels, as a result of which he will try to kill him. The main character will survive and continue to go in the same direction, investigating the traces and bodies that the killer leaves behind. But he should do it carefully, because he suspects that the city authorities are somehow involved in this. The second comic will have a Christian undertone, simply because I've been wanting to do something like that for a long time, how a non-believing character goes through the path to a believer.

[@The.Viewer]

Omg I love africa sm, especially the completed map where they used the song "Nothing Left to Lose" from Tangled series AHHH 🔥🔥

[@mikedf2169]

This serves as a good tutorial for when I get started later on. Well done, thank you.

[@Koini12x]

Africa is one of the best "furry" webcomics i've ever read along with a couple others

[@Chalkanthit]

Tbh I really love Blades of Furry as well and I usually can't stand sport themed Stories :')

[@anglepsycho]

I gotta say my favorite still is Beastars. It is so nice and challenging to read, and the anime just took so many different liberties.

[@taylorcrawford4387]

Beastars was so good, it delves into the different animal characteristics of the herbivores and carnivores and also deals with societal issues such as interracial relationships and how life is for even the most minor offenders coming away from prison. Not to mention youth hardships, and family issues as well as what strains friendships and first loves.

[@luckyvulp]

Your arguments on "why make them animal people" are weak, it doesn't need to support the plot or themes, or even lead to unique interactions you couldn't have with humans, sometimes you just like that aesthetic. It honestly feels like a weird tangent where you were just looking for more to complain about in regards to that comic, when it appears there was plenty already

[@SageofStars]

I mean, I knew a few. Dungeons and Denizens, Endtown, Keven and Kell, or even Zodiac...mind, of those four, only K&K was still ongoing, and it lost a LOT of its structure in the mid-00s due to suddenly being published in a newspaper as a comic strip, thus it couldn't do the big stories anymore. Oh, and Zodiac, about an anthro world that suddenly has a lot of supers in it(as in the last few years have seen them come out of the woodwork) has come back, though it's mostly on Furaffinity now. It was a unique take on the genre, as it dealt both with typical super hero stuff, but also discussed things like why they need to be corporate just to afford to live, and why they can't get normal jobs with their powers. Too many characters, mind, 12 team members, the various government types within it, AND several villain TEAMS to deal with. Oh, you also have smaller projects like Micro Law. That one's cool too. Again, mostly on FA now, though he has a patreon, which has bonus pages made for the patrons. It IS a kink comic, with that title it's about micro/macro situations. Good scifi stuff, with a load of characters, but some very direct focus ones. Good stuff.

[@jeremiahwalker3795]

Jack Posted 2 videos in the same day! You are a saint man.

[@ewelun]

5:50 In my webtoon I also have some anthro characters. I mainly made them anthro because I can‘t draw humans like at all (and some lore stuff). I don‘t think that you need a strong reason for your character to be anthro

[@Jose04537]

If done correctly, it can add a layer of uniqueness to the story, or be used as a gag (isekai do that a lot).

[@MediaDroid960]

I wonder what Jack’s opinion on Two Kinds is

[@Jose04537]

Barely disguised soft core porn.

[@Bekawolf1]

Ngl you appeared on my recommended and I was drawn in by my favorite comic Africa in the thumbnail! Ngl you hit the nail right on the head!! Africa is 10/10 a really good comic!

[@Bookshelf_Dragons]

Just started reading Africa! Ty for the recommendation :D Love your content Jack!

[@alleirgunthyi]

YOU GUYS NEED TO KNOW ABOUT "Odisséia do Sol" ITS REALLY GOOD AND CREATIVE IF THE COMIC GET KNOW MORE MAYBE THE CREATOR POST A TRANSLATION IN ENG

[@littlemisseevee2309]

my thoughts on good anthro comics is this: Its all about goals, if your goal is anthro as an artistic choice and not a narrative choice its fine, however its often more interesting if the narrative takes advantage of it.

[@ShoyaStars1131]

As long as it has a good storyline or maybe along with a good art style. That’s perfect

[@Yoshistar238]

As a person who is working their own comic series with anthro's being the primary characters this did actually help.

[@5paulo]

I feel the 'for no reason' can work in two ways. One is that there's a reason why you picked animals for the character design. Sometimes it might be one of many options to pick, but in the end you're allowed to select up to your preference. Another is that the character design is a reason for something. Like, even if it won't change the major plot points, can be used for some jokes, or for framing the scenes. I think one thing worth remembering is that symbolism, even simple one, can be a good reason for a particular character design. It can aid the narrative, it might be used just to highlight what's already there. Like the case with bully vs nerd, where the wolf vs sheep relationship immediately sets off which character is which and helps imaging the relationship from the cover alone.

[@Stratelier]

One of the biggest counterexamples, of having an anthro cast "without good/narrative reason" would have to be . . . wait for it . . . Lackadaisy!

[@LilacMonarch]

Hard disagree on the "you need a reason to make them animals". Maybe the artist just likes drawing anthro characters rather than humans. Maybe the designs are just a lot cooler than basic humans and outfits. It doesn't need to have plot significance.

[@KipKatt]

the biggest struggle i have with developing my sci-fi comic is making things seem alot more foreign, like since its a different galaxy with different rules and it takes place in the 3500s its hard for me to make ideas or things in the setting feel foreign and unknown. its just a passion project for me atm, maybe later it can go bigger than the story and lore i have so far. i dunno yet, the idea and everything has only sit rent free in my head for 4 years :P

[@StarMouseZarry]

One decent example of the characters being anthro being part of the plot is Blades of Furry. After seeing this, I'm glad I never actually read The Fate yet, time to remove that from my subscriptions now that I know the premise.

[@reller82]

Poppy opossum was one of my favorites furry web comics that was sadly discontinued. Characters and designs are very fun!

[@stormynight4895]

Interesting, dynamic, life-changing, and other buzz words to help the algorithm! I recommend!

[@Vicilrs]

WOOHOO NEW VIDEO DROPPED

[@TJRageQuits]

I enjoyed this video and your narrative of what makes a good or bad anthropomorphic /furry comic , The idea of using anthropomorphic characters with their potential to show up with their natural animalistic feats or mannerisms to make the anthro characters stand out is what makes the character development stand out.

[@Rieylthegoober]

Not really related to the video but you should read the misadventures of misfit and meiko! It gets pretty crazy during the recent episodes

[@termitesc.aardwolf3644]

You should check out Preeny Has To Repeat 6th Grade. It's one heck of an underrated gem in terms of furry webcomiocs.

[@themphantom9138]

I love these Right and Wrong videos so much and I am glad I am able to take notes (also "Bojack Horseman")

[@agurios]

i kinda agree on what you're saying because I had the same thought about furry comics that have anthropomorphic characters for no reason. I was writing this webcomic adult drama script with mature themes and I kinda wanted to draw the characters as furries only because It is kinda easier for me. But, being honest, it kinda made no sense to me after a while, due to the fact that the characters could be perfectly human. So I ended up not trusting in that idea. Maybe I'll just write anthro stories with a reason to be from now on, in fantasy or sci-fi settings. It's not a BAD thing to have furry characters in our "human world" but I agree that sometimes it feels off.

[@estonedreveldo735]

as someone who absolutely loves writeing, a web comic is something i would absolutely LOVE to do some day! but the problem lays in the fact i cant drawn, nor do i know many WHO can, and much less so willing to do a webcomic XD regardless of any of that, Its a sort of dream of mine to get my stories i wanna tell out there, and web comics certainly are a fantastic medium to exspress many things, without haveing to write a page full of sensory details

[@wolftail2558]

I would love to watch your thoughts on the Warrior Cats comics/graphic novels (I love them but there is a looot of bad stuff you could cover) Lackdaisy is also a beautiful masterpiece in my opinion!

[@101404angelchick]

0:22 i actually like that furry webtoon. It's super cute

[@sajidthecoolkid3749]

This is so funny rn i just got a ad for webtoon right as i clicked on this vid

[@lizyfoxXD]

I'm am a fan of furry comics! There's something about them that make me curious I like that you're talking about that subject! That's good! 😊

[@blackglurakx]

I’ve been on Webtoon many years now. The first comic that lead me to it was Lumine which recently ended… I dunno if that counts as a ‘Furry comic’ though… hm dunno. Others I’ve read over the years and or still read are: Twin Dragons, Straylight Tiger, Nebula’s Civilization, Chronicles of Adala, The Dragon Tutor, Astral Sounds (though that one is more about aliens), Sirius of Earth (excited to see what the creator does with this after Lumine now), Pixie and Brutus, I Think Like You, Duncan and Eddie, Lost Domain, Moon Rise, Bloodrain Valravn, Bird and Boar, Blaze Core (more of a superhero comic but has some animal aspects), Urban Animal (definitely a stand out), Shingi: The Spirit’s Playbook (that one is more of a curse situation with him transforming), Don’t Hate, Chakra Battle of the Titans, Super Secret, The Wolf & Red Riding Hood… Damn man typing them all out… I read a lot of stuff… and that is only the comics with animal and furry characters… I also read far more other stuff like City of Blank, Flow, Glacias, Star Children, etc.

[@AwesomeYena]

Africa is furry? I just thought it was just an animal comic. I have a similar belief, if you're going to make your characters non-human, [E.G. objects or animals] why not embrace it? I get a little sad when an animal character's traits are not acknowledged, or when they just act completely like humans. Blech!

[@dog_pawz]

FINALLY SOMEONE TALKS ABOUT AFRICA!!!!!!! i LOOOOOVE this webcomic so very much. it's absolutely gorgeous, the traditional art is INSANE, and the story is so wonderful!! thank you for giving attention to this masterpiece.

[@krampus7520]

2 minutes in and i want to say, Jack you are a huge inspo to me (I know you wont like my comic 😔) to be able to have 7 different youtube channels like i dreamed bcause it ca be done, and you've done it.

[@serpanalfie]

Speaking of cool animal comics: I hope so, Golden Shrike, The Ghost of the Gulag. Also manga Roijura Brothers. It's a manga about dude dreaming of becoming a gangster and he gets transformed into a cat... so he becomes cat gangster. It has really good art style and I find it underrated. As for furry comics... ig only Lackadaisy. I really prefer choosing furries for the aesthetic, bc many times making them allegory for some types of oppression is just stright up human bullshit that do more harm than good. I find it irritating as nature works different than we depict it and ppl might harm the animals due sterotypes. Many herbivores are more than capable of defending themselves and many animals aren't only meat or plant eaters. If using animal traits I much more like just making it just the abilities or quirky/fun fact traits. Ex. Zebras liking to live in a cities due to big population. Horses being those PE class type of persons who gets angry at you for simply not being good at their game as reference that race horses can get invested emotionally in races. Goats being great climbers.

[@akloidz345]

i saw that derideal sells in some events their comics and post regularly in social media, i did´nt know that he also posted before his comic on webtoons, but yeah, for singles and short stories is cool but a full book whit fully developed art hyper detailed saturates some of the special of the focus i guess

[@tymarscott6548]

I don't like furries (no hate, just not my thing), but I REALLY love the AFRICA Webtoon 😅😅😅. Normal animals that talk is much easier to digest.

[@ChiotVulgaire]

An old-school example of a furry artist doing a comic with anthros just because is Stan Sakai, creator of Usagi Yojimbo (i.e. That rabbit samurai that occasionally hangs out with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles). At first his characters were going to be all human, but he made a doodle of a rabbit with his ears tied like a samurai topknot and ran with the idea.

[@StephenKterror]

Here's also another comic suggestion: No North. Trust me, it deserves more recognition!!!!!! Though, the webtoon version of it has been significantly delayed for over a year at least, it still updates on Instagram.

[@evangraham2254]

Forrestdale is my favorite anthro comic. Always would read is every week.

[@anthares96]

i've been reading africa since 2013 and, man, i agree it's one of the best comics out there, not just furry. such a tight cast, mind-blowingly pretty art, stellar insinct vs choice and found family plotlines, the list goes on. go read it now, cannot recommend it enough

[@grantotters1145]

Omg Africa!! I remember being a teenager when the first comic came out and I've been a constant reader since then. They were my first view on Anthro comics (aside from warrior cat comics) and their other comics are also amazing!

[@sandcat2383]

Paused this video to read the entirety of Africa and it's so good I absalutely love the art and the characters 10/10 would reccomend

[@thebruh5745]

Shameless plug, but I would reccomend the "Mau Makan Apa" (or "What To Eat" in english translation, both Indonesian and English versions are on webtoon). Very short but entertaining read. Though the art may be inconsistent at times, and the story may seem uncomprehensible at certain parts, the author was a begginer artist at that time, and they did a really good job (they are now working on an animated adaptation of the comic, fully by themselves with episode 1 already out.)

[@hughie522]

I liked, "I Do My Bully's Homework" (hasn't been updated since June 2023, RIP). My current obsession is "The Day We Met" (by Falco), which is actively updating on Patreon (also available on Tumblr).

[@cat_mama]

Hi I'm new, I love webtoon and I am reading Africa currently, just popped in to hear your thoughts! I love it when webtoons are talked about outside of, well, webtoon.

[@rocatriste6664]

webtoon once recommended me The Fate! And I must say I saved myself from taking an eye on it just because I had to do something important

[@dragonmester9814]

About the "Make the characters anthropomorphic for a good reason", its not actually NEEDED to be plot related, having a character being anthro could just be an aesthetic choice, or a metaphor to something, or many other creative things possible to do with the idea of anthro. Of course, you want every piece of your story to make sense and connect well with each other, and really good stories can use every part of itself to represent an infinity of ideas, but sometimes, just by making your story with furries can make into something unique, wanting more from it as a reader its fine but doesnt make the story bad.

[@ReDoG129]

I've noticed I hope So, and Toufati Sawa are no longer on Webtoons because they don't like the platform.

[@BurnedOakHeart]

I saw Africa and immediately clicked 😔

[@spahghettiboi4150]

I was wondering where you were, then i stumbled upon ya in my recommended ahahahah

[@BlikTuberFictionalIsBased]

IHopeSo is honestly my favorite and the comic dub for it is amazing ngl. Africa is great too tbh along with the Golden Shrike a comic about deers.

[@Boredaf-dz8mv]

LET'S GO JACK UPLOADEDDDD :D

[@gayrurumon]

While I don't personally think furry media needs a justification for making the characters anthropomorphised, I do think there might be a reason why those that _do_ occasionally acknowledge or incorporate the fact that their characters are animal people into the story may be considered to be better than a lot that don't. Well, a reason aside from those things being interesting in their own right. That being: it's something which shows that the author has put thought and care into their setting and characters. If the author is asking themselves things like "Would the average door height in a furry world be taller to accommodate species with horns or antlers?" or "Would it make sense for the wolverine and eagle characters to not get along at first based on them competing for food in nature?"... those may ultimately be pretty pointless details to bother including in a story, but for a writer to even be thinking that deeply about the minutia would require some level of passion and dedication to their craft. So if that's the case, there may be some merit to the idea that furry media that actually engages with anthropomorphism beyond the aesthetic level tends to be better, but it might be correlation rather than causation (that is, the character's furry-ness affects the story because the author is a good writer, rather than it necessarily being good writing on its own, if that makes sense).

[@projectarduino2295]

A story can do whatever they want to their characters, ie. make them furry or whatever. A GOOD story has reason for why their characters are the way they are.

[@DragonNinjaAnimations]

Guessed which two it would be from the title of the notif- got 1/2 right lmao

[@TheEquation93]

Using your logic potentially against you, what is your lore purpose for your OC avatar character for being a furry, eh?

[@Aurablasterx]

SYNTHETIC INSTINCT MENTIONED

[@ladysybylgrey]

Tamberlane is my favorite anthro-comic ❤❤❤❤

[@elliotgabriel4580]

So in short: AnThRo BaD, fErAl GoOd

[@Jose04537]

A lot of artist draw furry characters because it's easier to make them distinct, which is fair enough. And even if the characters are anthro "for no reason", a little bit of creativity in incorporating said fact to the narrative is refreshing and make it unique. For example, I like how in a book (I don't remember), one of the character pointed out another character was sad, because of the position of the ears and the low hanging tail, different of their usual self. The body language of animals is more pronounced, making interactions a little diferrent. For example, lying would be more difficult, because it would be more obvious (body language); and hiding characters liking/loving/lusting each other also would be more difficult, because of their smell (heat). In the book, they needed a spray to neutralize said odor.

[@bookvee]

Someone once called my webcomic (boy gets superpowers but has to turn into a ferret to use them) "furrybait porn" because apparently, he's into the idea of quadropedal animals in spandex. I stopped drawing it some time ago because I just cant draw and am apparently incapable of learning, somehow.

[@inceptoadepto6055]

I think this is a good advice if you want to redo zootopia over and over again