Analog Summing - Fuseroom Studio Masterclass

[@franzschreiner8668]

This is one of the clearest explanations of Summing. Well done. For those who are curious, the Dangerous box opens up the stereo range, and everything sounds a bit creamier and open. Indeed the bass line weight gets heavier. Awesome.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks Franz. I appreciate you liking the video and leaving me your nice comment. Thanks for the added feedback.

[@tyranic1]

My personal experience using analogue summing is that with very little effort my mix sounds finished way quicker. Each individual instrument appears to have it's own space in the frequency spectrum and you can pick out the individual instruments in the mix easier and the effects running through the summer seems to sound better. Now of course you can achieve this in the box, but it takes longer using more plugins and experience counts. I should note that i sum 16 channels of which 4 is mono the rest stereo pairs. The summing mixer is a Vintage Maker Filtek with Haufe transformers, then the stereo out goes to a silver bullet stereo tone amp for makeup gain this has neve and api transformers, filters and eq's. there's a ssl stereo buss comp patched in and out of the silver bullet and the stereo out of the silver bullet goes back to a orion 32. The effect of this chain gives your mix what feels like more stereo width and depth. You'll end up spending a lot of money for something you could get close to in the box. For some it ain't worth the expense and for the others who are a bit obsessive about their sound it's worth it. At the end of the day it's the song writing and the music production that makes a hit record, not which particular Mic, comp, eq or converter was used.

[@arizzoschettino]

Hi Tyranic1! Thanks for watching and for leaving us such an insightful comment, you covered lots of sides (thanks also for explaining your setup) and angles and it's all worth mentioning, from the technical side to the fact that obviously analog summing or ITB mixing won't make a difference against great/poor songwritign and music production. But this does not mean we can't discuss about it, and getting faster and better to the end result is a priority for every professional in this field. Thanks again, looking forward to more comments and insights if you ever drop by any other video we've released. Peace out,

[@stuff4826]

thats an ill setup. can i send you a project for a pass?

[@scottspaulding7965]

I would agree. Summing gives that added 5 to 10%, and I also find the mixing goes faster with less processing. But is it worth all that money.? It is to me, but I love hardware and have been collecting it for over 30 years. Summing is a great way to use it, and I love the workflow.

[@Gang-25j]

Again ppl say the song writing blah blah blah yet they use outboard gear also lol.

[@Truth565]

Thanks a mill, for taking the time to present this. It is really well done and clearly explained. Also you used a track 5hat made it easier to hear what’s going on. For those that don’t hear any difference, you need to listen on good headphones or in a well balanced or treated room. Also it’s not the coloration that’s important when using a summing box or plugin, because as we all know, there are a 101 different ways to add colour to a mix. The one thing a summing box gives you, or adds that you can’t get in any way is that separation, where the mix just opens up more, each instrument just seems to have its own space and the mix might sound wider. Both the D Box and NLS has that, but NLS doesn’t have the same weight. VCC has more colour and weight but is slightly narrower and less open. This is why many find NLS as thinner, but if you mix through it, you automatically compensate for that. I’ve used both and now use NLS, because it’s very difficult to add separation to the end of mix, but you can easily add weight or more colour. If you listen again with good monitoring, it’s easy to hear.

[@arizzoschettino]

Many thanks for your kind words! We appreciate you finding time to let us know! Thanks for enjoying the video,

[@fededj2002]

Reaaally like the waves. To be honest, I don't feel the dangerous makes that huge of a difference compared to the plugins, and the snare on the dangerous feels like it gets more on the background instead on the front like in the plugins. I guess it's a personal preference, but there is a fairly big difference. Mixing through these plugins might be the best idea, very good call.

[@arizzoschettino]

Hi Federico! Thanks for watching the video and letting us know what you think! Glad you liked it!

[@thesearethesuns]

Agreed, 100%

[@a3production277]

Finally, I saw someone that knows what he is talking about, I bought a lot of eq's and compressors as a hardware and plugins and I can notice the difference between them I feel summing boxes should be the last peace of gear you buy, it's the ice on the cake great tutorial the best I've seen for summing until today

[@arizzoschettino]

A3 Production Thank you so much for the amazing comment! We are humbled by the great words you used and we're looking forward to release more videos like these! As usual if you have any suggestion for a topic you would like us to cover, let us know!

[@baristajoes5087]

The Dangerous box was def the warmest and glued the sounds together more cohesively in my opinion. I use a Dangerous D-box and I would never work without it. I love Dangerous and their products. 1st Class company and products !

[@arizzoschettino]

Many thanks for the insight and for sharing your experience!

[@gengee21]

The analog summing version is noticeably warmer, more open/wide and has more depth. All the digital and no summing examples sounded more congested and harsh.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave your comment. I appreciate it!

[@MultiMrMayonnaise]

"Your bits are your headroom" !!! Perfect.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thank you for appreciating ;)

[@KendrickCreates]

I'm listening on Audeze Lcd2 through a DAC/Amp, and while there is a difference between the examples, it's negligible. Since most people won't have this solid of a setup, it seems to me that analog is a huge investment for an indiscernible improvement. Maybe this is because you do such a good job mixing that the digital sounds stellar as it sits . Great video. Subbed!

[@Utkarsh_A]

Do keep in mind you are listening through KZbin, as amazing as the LCD2's are they are being bottlenecked by the Audio quality of KZbin

[@largepoodle6036]

@@Utkarsh_A that is true, but it's how most of us listen to reviews anyway. In many gear videos, if you can still hear a drastic improvement in audio quality during the a/b's, it's obviously good

[@mutantbaby1672]

The assumption is that if the difference is minute on a good system then nobody will hear it on a crappy system. That's not always the case I'm afraid. Systems that are deficient in some areas often accentuate flaws in a mix. That's why you check your mix on your friend's bluetooth speaker or the car stereo inside a 1990 Corolla. And that's also why there are so many ugly sounding NS-10's on the bridge around the world.

[@atta1798]

It depends on the quality and standards of the professional and as a professional ...that is you want your work to be the best and for future reference.........a minor difference is huge....and you should aim for the best at all times...just a professional advice and engineering practice..especially for your artists and your work...get an LCD4 etc.....open back....etc

[@sekritskworl-sekrit_studios]

STELLAR class (even 5 years later)! Subscribing now!

[@arizzoschettino]

I am so grateful 🙏 for your words, thanks!

[@diregremo]

The first part is gonna fuckus. Haha, love it!

[@arizzoschettino]

Ah! You got one of the Easter Eggs we hid in our master classes! Nobody has found them all, yet! ..that tip of Fuseroom sarcasm that helps us survive through the day ;) - Thanks for watching!

[@tonezmusic8758]

I cracked up when I heard it too! haha

[@dozasounds3852]

lol! had me on a roll too

[@largepoodle6036]

actually quite surprised at how well those two plugins handled the situation. sounded pretty damn close, and good as well.

[@arizzoschettino]

Many thanks for letting us know. Technology has really gone a long way and every month it seems the impossible becomes easy peasy possible!

[@agauerm]

Even listening to this via the speakers of a TV I can notice that the analog summing sounds better.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for watching the video and letting us know what you think!

[@DPSharky1]

Alberto, Absolutely fantastic explanation and Demo!!

[@arizzoschettino]

Thank you! I am glad you liked the video, thanks for letting me know!

[@aspiringcharacter]

I can definitely hear the constraints on the audio mixed digitally verses the character that's added from the 2 Bus LT. I like the illusion of space that it creates. I personally think the mix sounds a little more natural with it, which is kinda what my mixes are missing.

[@arizzoschettino]

Elijah Jones Thanks for watching the video and for the comment! Glad you liked the content!

[@TimKaseyMythHealer]

The dangerous summer makes its difference in the high frequencies. I'm listening to it on a smartphone and I can hear the difference. Turned my phone upside down so I couldn't see what was playing, and as soon as you switch from "dangerous" to "no summing" I could hear the sharp transients like razor blades cutting through. If you don't run through an external console it's going to cause the transients to be a bit more sharp and painful to the ear on the leading edge of the transient. What will be impossible to differentiate is if you compare a dangerous summer with an Allen & Heath GL2400. When you push the gain on the GL 2400 you will probably be able to round off the Leading Edge of the transients and make an indistinguishable sound between the GL 2400 and the dangerous.

[@arizzoschettino]

Many thanks for the insight and for watching. I appreciate your comment and sorry for the late reply, literally my bad as I had missed a batch of comments!

[@jcansus]

I can hear a difference because of the snare. All sound good to me. The LT summing makes the sound a tad warmer. The no summing sound was very clinical. The 2 plug-ins brings the snare up front a bit and seems to make the overall sound bigger compared to no summing. I like em all :)

[@arizzoschettino]

general_alvarez thanks for dropping by and adding yourself to the discussion! Very appreciated, also thanks for liking them all ;) and for pointing out the subtleties in your listening environment!

[@whitelionmuzikproductionz9725]

The dangerous music was so much platter in the low end and upper mids plus gave it a nice smooth top end 👍

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for the feedback and for joining in to watch the video!

[@kokostudioku]

Best explanation! thank you for the masterclass! Look like Waves & Slate give more saturated/color, and the Dangerous Box more warm and solid in the low end.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks! We appreciate the kind comment and we're glad you found it amazing!

[@JLorz84]

To me the difference is clear if you listen to the drums. The snare feels more compressed and punchy with dangerous, more clear with waves, more present with slate. The overall sound feels very richer in all the three summings

[@arizzoschettino]

Hi Lorenzo, thanks for watching and for letting us know what you think!

[@atta1798]

you can combine all this and yet get further variants and quality as per the production and creativity....etc

[@fleshtonegolem]

Great video. I really appreciate how long you allowed us to hear going through the many different sum types. Thank you!

[@arizzoschettino]

Hello! Thanks for the kind words, sorry I am replying now but I missed a lot of comments. My bad. Thanks for the good words, I am glad you liked the video and appreciated the intent of letting the samples sink in at each comparison.

[@mailacelo]

I hear that the analog summing gives more warmth and depth to the sound. The digital summing plugin makes the sound brighter to my ear and no summing sounds a bit dull.

[@arizzoschettino]

Marsel Willem Aipassa Thanks for joining us and leaving your comment! Glad you found the content interesting!

[@changli7198]

Thanks for this great shootout. Very useful. Dangerous hardware surely have that magic sounding, and slate digital also works well in similar approch. Feels like waves are in quiet different style, much thinner and crisp sounding.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for the comment and for subscribing! We are glad you liked the video! We are running a free live online masterclass soon, on the topic of "Recording a Great Bass Sound" and if you want to join you can get on board by simply registering at www.fuseroom.com/live - different topic but if you're there it will be fun! October 19th 2PM UTC ;) - Thanks again and rock on!

[@tutengenezemuziki]

This is Super Userful Maestro Alberto, THE BEST Analog summing Lesson I've learnt......SUBBED

[@arizzoschettino]

Nanobeatz _tz Thanks for the amazing comments. It's a blessing to read this was so useful to you, it was exactly the purpose of the time and effort we dedicated to create this! Share it with anyone who might find this worthwhile and - we promise - we will keep making more on other topics! Thanks again!

[@Icunstudio]

I heard the best Sum using dangerous sum...good and warm analog sum feel

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! Much appreciated!

[@darkpheenix3489]

Great comparison and explanation. Thank you for taking the time out to do this. I've been trying to ascertain if it is worth stepping into the analog summing world. You did a great A/B/C/D comparison. Thank you for taking the time to not only show a hardware unit in action but 2 plug-ins, that are for this purpose, as well. It really does put things in perspective for anyone interested in this subject. You have a sub! I look forward to seeing more videos from you. :)

[@arizzoschettino]

Dark Pheenix thanks for such a great comment! We are glad the video worked for you and it's giving us the good vibe to keep going with this style and cut! We're about to shoot new episodes and we look forward to have you with us! Best regards!

[@timmarrier]

Fantastic video, your explanations are some of the best I've seen for this kind of fairly technical audio stuff. Really enjoyed it, and wow, that room....that desk.....that...that workstation.......damn, that is an awesome setup, brother. Right on.

[@arizzoschettino]

Hi Tim! Alberto here reporting for duty (nothing better than a bit of home computer time on the 31st ;)) - Many many thanks for such a great comment, I am happy you enjoyed the video and the channel. Thanks for the nice words about the room and setup! It all expanded a bit since this video, more info on fuseroom.com - if you are ever in Berlin please come for coffee and we can have some chit chat! All the best and thanks for the warm vibes,

[@michaeldodds5026]

Night and day the DM box sounds better than no summing or the plugins. Out of the plugins I preferred NLS. I own both these plugins and only ever tried the MixBuss module on the stereo out but I'm going to try using it on the groups like you did. Great video thanks.

[@arizzoschettino]

Much appreciated, thanks for your comment and for watching the video, until next time!

[@OdinOfficialEmcee]

I hear the most subtle difference in the low mids. It just fattens things up and gives a bit more presence to things between ~100 Htz and ~600 Htz. However, I notice almost no difference between the digital options and the analog box ( a bit more snappy and forward drums). I believe that it will not make or break a mix and offers very little for how much it costs

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for your detailed comment and for watching my videos! Much appreciated.

[@kicksncapz]

I like the dangerous music, then the slate, then the waves

[@arizzoschettino]

Marcus Dwayne Gonzalez Thanks for watching and letting us know what you think!

[@shakleton768S]

great stuff... i learnt alot!! thank you alberto. loved how the drums sit in the analogue pass through and love the sound of the NLS as an in the box alt

[@arizzoschettino]

Greyhem Simpleton Thank you! Many thanks for leaving this comment and letting us know. It's obviously always a great pleasure to read this! We just made available to the public two master classes that were held live, online, some months ago (and were available initially only to participants). They are about Mid/Side and Getting a Killer Bass Sound. Happy Holidays!

[@rjferrara9206]

BEST YT video on this subject...thanks alot!

[@arizzoschettino]

@RJ Ferrara many thanks for that! Truly appreciated!

[@NikolausBrocke]

First, thanks for the good explanation of summing ITB and OTB. Now it's the year 2021 and things have changed a lot since the dangerous 2 bus summing box invented the product category for external analog summing mixers in 2001. 20 years ago! At these days I worked in the audio industry in one of the 3 top DAW brands. 20 years ago the DAW companies demonstrated that mixing in the box is possible and that it will be a serious alternative to produce in the analog domain. Of course these ever improving DAWs have been a competitor for analog gear producers. A lot of these big studios with huge invests in their equipment still existed. Their return on investment had not been payed off and therefore they had to justify that analog is much better than the "digital toys". And at that time they were right. Digital productions could not hold up to the analog standards. That is the reason why the product category "analog summing mixers" entered the pro audio market. They wanted to provide the signal quality of analog to the growing group of digital producers but without the need to invest in a 500.000 $ large format analog console. I can remember a lot of discussions (and verbal fights!) at that time about the superiority of analog vs. digital. The big challenge for the DAWs was the question: Why do analog mixes often sound wider, deeper and sometimes "crispier" than digital mixes? Today we know why: 1. Due to the phase inaccuracies of analog components when summing a lot of channels. 2. Due to the manipulation of the sound by analog components. 3. Due to the distortion analog components produce the hotter they are driven. 4. Due to the amount of outboard equipment that could manipulate/color the sound in a creative way. That diversity of analog gear didn't exist in the digital domain. 5. Due to the digital converters that have not been up to the quality of today's converters. 6. Due to the lacking of technology to emulate analog gear in the digital domain (e. g. convolution technology). People were used to the "sound" of analog. Let's jump to 2021. Today nearly all popular music productions are produced "in the box." due to economical and convenient reasons. (Andew Schepps, just to name one of the older guys:-) The price for a studio-day dopped significantly. The budget record companies pay for production is a fracion of the budget in the 80ies or 90ies. Most big and famous analog recording studios have been disappeared or have been bought by private owners (vintage lovers). And the sound (quality)? Music (no matter of personal taste) never sounded so good today. I only mean the technical quality of the masters. Quality: This is not at all an issue! ADCs of 384 kHz, 32 bit integer, high end clocking technology when syncing with external devices (Possible with an interface under 2000 $!). Although this bit depth and sampling frequency is not necessary for highest quality. It does not sound better. Higher sample rates can even sound worse! (kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5umqHypiZWLbq8) Sound: This is also not an issue. There are so many plugins that can emulate every nuance of the analog sound and even go far beyond it. Everything is possible. But you have to search for these tools and willing to try them out if they work for you. That means: investing a lot of your valuable time. It is a matter of fact that you can rebuild the sound of the most expensive analog gear with a plugin. Providing you really want it and you invest some time. Tactile experience: This is the big advantage that analog gear has over software. Until today there have been many attempts to create controllers for software. Only a few really work well but they are much more expensive than all your software and your converters together. And the investment in it is a big risk. If a the protocol or the support for it has stopped after some years, your investment has not payed off and you can not use it anymore. Using small controlles can not substitute the need of the mouse. Investment Still a big advantage of hig end analog quality gear. Software, Controllers, DSPs, Converters have much more value loss then quality analog gear. You can still have fun with quality analog devices in 20 years from now. Conclusion If you are mixing in the box and want to improve sound quality or gain attitude with an analog summing box you can do it if you are willing to pay more than 3000 $. But you can do this in the box too - no problem. With even more possibilities. Hui, that's a lot of text I wrote. I hope there is something in it for you.

[@arizzoschettino]

Wow! Thanks for taking the time to write such an essay! That's not even a comment anymore! I appreciate your info and enjoyed reading them. Thanks again for watching and letting me know what you think.

[@NikolausBrocke]

@@arizzoschettino It was my pleasure to be inspired from your great video and that you took the time to explain that matter.

[@arizzoschettino]

@@NikolausBrocke You are most welcome. Your warm words once again are humbling and truly appreciated. I'll keep releasing new videos and try my best to keep the spark of curiosity up in all those who sit down to watch them.

[@atta1798]

what is the IP/invention USPTO number dangerous has on that box?....one thing your forgot to mention and elaborate....the analog to digital translation/conversion....key and critical....and indeed an issue......most can only do 24 bits D to A..great comprehensive attempt to encapsulate all in the paragraphs...your investment sentence is not clear. Sound statement not 100% accurate...as well as #4 talk to the big guys Bob Ludwig, Bob Katz..real professionals that do understand the audio quality.......digital still lags behind analog...for those types of productions......of course you can make a hit and a grammy w digital of course ...etc You have clocks to synchronize your signal path made out of Rubidium if you understand the implications.....as well as to understand sound not only on the time domain in the frequency domain to fully describe the infinite analog signal when translated to digital........A hybrid approach is the best of both worlds.... I still see 40 year old experience producers come up with some productions that are squashed, narrowed, empty yet their ears and brains are shut and think they know what they are talking about until I master their Mix in a hybrid set up and they bow at you......just silly after all those years in the profession....best to go for high end analog equipment and the best converters you can find..PRISM....Merging Technologies...etc....your investment will be fine and the quality of your work.

[@NikolausBrocke]

@@atta1798 Thanks for your valuable contribution.

[@stefanopioclemente6821]

Grandissimo.... very very interesting. Great presentation!!! I will start tuo be your fan from today. Bravo

[@arizzoschettino]

Grazie Stefano! Your comment is truly appreciated. That's why we shot all those videos, glad you loved it!

[@liforfor6972]

after listening multipple time, this is the differences 1st the bassline in the dangerous sound more defined 2nd the top end on the dangerous sound more smouth while in the nls and ss sound a little bit harsh or a like there is a little boost at this erea 3rd the the dangerous overall sound sound like floating while the others is very static i can be wrong but this is what it sound to me but to be honest for me it's not a very big obvious difference you have to listen very carefully to be able to catch these things so it's not a big deal i'm listening using senhizer hd650 so maybe in speakers i can hear more differences who know. thanks for the video

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for enjoying the video and leaving your detailed feedback!

[@dizzyvisionz4493]

listen to the "S"s' and you will the difference. You can hear the saturation on smoothing those out. Sounds richer

[@arizzoschettino]

Thank you for letting me know what you think, your comment is appreciated. Good point, too! Sorry for the late reply and thanks for watching!

[@prula]

Massive difference.. No summing sounds mushy in the low end. In addition the clarity is much higher on the high frequency's with summing! I need it!

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for letting me know and for liking the video!

[@nikumeru]

The difference after youtube compression is not that big, but it's audible, the analogue summing box gives it a nicer bottom and makes a bit more 3D, the plug ins were pretty close.

[@CyrilleBoucanogh]

the 3D effect is about the crosstalk leakage factor. I don't get it why the software developers don't take it on account of their plugins.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for letting me know your opinion and watching/enjoying the video. Sorry for the late reply as I had missed some comments, my apologies!

[@DalleyMusic]

Check out the: A Designs Mix Factory Summing Box. From samples I heard it sounds better than any other summing box in regards to getting that "Class A console" open & airy 3D sound. Now if someone could only make that into a plugin!!

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for the suggestion! We haven't checked it out, yet.. but we'll keep an eye out for it!

[@DalleyMusic]

@@arizzoschettino kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHrMhqqonptmndU

[@SpektorBaal]

Yeah i heard it. The Dangerous is better it feels more real. I am also using mytek 8x converters so they really show alot.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for letting us know your opinion. The Myteks are great converters, we just finished working on some jazz recordings and they are stellar. Good choice!

[@alexhormann8931]

The analog summed mix in your example sounds more compressed especially in the kick/bass correlation, has definitely the most saturated sound - probably caused by summing several D/A converters - and the most overall glued together character. But I guess it strongly depends on the summing plugins settings and especially the processing of the sum itself to come closer to the analog impression. I'd give it some extra saturation and a little linear phase multiband compression of the low end as an approach for a better simulation.

[@arizzoschettino]

Alex Hörmann Thanks for watching and leaving your comment!

[@KRISNAMUSIK]

very very WARMING , AWESOME SOUNDING

[@arizzoschettino]

KRISNA MUSIK Thanks for watching and for the nice words!

[@groovecat7]

Brilliant presentation. Thank you, sir!

[@arizzoschettino]

You are most welcome! Thanks for taking the time to let me know, it means a lot to me.

[@1erwayne]

Differences are subtle but are there, imo. I agree that hardware processors make more of an impact, for me, than the summing. I use a 2bus+ and I can totally hear the difference. I do agree this is one of the best video's I've seen anyone do. Great a/b and selection of gear. Subscribing!! Wayne

[@arizzoschettino]

1erwayne thank you so much for the amazing words. We're glad it worked for you! Until the next video, thanks for subbing!

[@churchlesssociety]

Wow, the Analog 2 Buss sounds like it puts a covering over the entire envelope. In my opinion, neither digital Sum sounded like the analog, and between the 2 digital the slate was just a hair less brittle, possible something that can be rebalanced in the individual busses am guessing. Hey all in all, I found your Chanel today, and as a brother in Christ I just want to tell you how much I love you for sharing this gift, your clipping vs limiters was God sent today, Thank you so much and stay blessed.

[@arizzoschettino]

Hi there! Many thanks 🙏 for your kind words, I'm glad you liked the video and found it useful along with the rest available on the channel. All you see here exists because of the support of my Patrons, so your thank to me is a thank to their (also financial) support. 🙏

[@OscarBerglund]

the plugins sounded very aggresive to the dangerous 2-bus unit. there wasn't much difference between the no summing and the dangerous summing but it just placed everything a little smoother and i could tell it every time it went in and out with my eyes closed. great comparison, this really shows that hardware is still relavant today, even though plugins has gotten very very good.

[@arizzoschettino]

Oscar D'vine Many thanks for your detailed comment and for watching the video!

[@Truth565]

Oh and great looking studio by the way, very clean, elegant and relaxing vibe. Also I see you have the Softube Console 1. I use that with NLS to simulate a software mixing desk. Can’t afford an outboard summing setup right now, but maybe one day.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks Mike! Sorry for the late reply, I did miss a lot of comments and I am replying to them now on a daily basis, to catch up! Thanks for your kind words about the studio, I am glad you like the design and vibe. During that time we were having some classes on Console 1 and it was installed, yes. It belongs to my studio manager and friend, Markus. I am a huge mouse+keyboard user, as in literally zero faders in front of me..but it's definitely fast to use and catchy. I liked what I was doing when I tried it out.

[@sonamchedupbhutia4126]

Thank you, it helped but i had a little bit of problems. Good Tutorial

[@arizzoschettino]

You are welcome! Thanks for letting me know, it means a lot that you took the time to write it. Thanks,

[@4dmind]

You can hear the width increase on the DM 2Bus. It's slight, but it's there. And I think for my style and workflow, it's enough to warrant having one.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for watching the video and finding the time to drop your comment! Glad to know it works for you (and I repeat: this video has no endorsement whatsoever on what is best and worst, it's just my personal approach and workflow).

[@danield2000]

I had the Dangerous and it didn't do anything to the sound, just make it brighter and harsher. Try the Rupert Neve Designs or API.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks Daniel for watching and providing us with your experience! Do you use analog summing now? If so, through which unit?

[@danield2000]

Tonelux. Most of these summing boxes would benefit from inserts and at least one Aux send. That's why I am keen on hearing Rupert's 5060 and 5059

[@PhreaSpirit]

Love that Morpheus style armchair in the back. And HUGE thanks for the explanation! Suprisingly, Slate sounded the best to me. Very punchy

[@arizzoschettino]

You are most welcome, thanks for watching and sorry for the late reply. Yes, that's our producer chair but really, it's really Morpheus' ;) There used to be a nice bottle of Scotch there but I guess it needs replacing now ;)

[@tonezmusic8758]

Super helpful and informative! Thank you

[@arizzoschettino]

TonezMusic Much appreciated! Thanks for watching and for the nice words!

[@hulkslayer626]

Well I have no future as a mixer... I heard absolutely no difference lol :)

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for dropping in! You are far, far from being in trouble for not hearing a difference: not only things like these don't make or break a mix engineer but your experience, any experience, is adding to your background and telling you always a thing or two!

[@anders671]

What is your audio monitor?

[@hulkslayer626]

Ander S a pair of Bose headphones. Don't know the model... but thank you for the benefit of the doubt that it might be my equipment and not my ears :D

[@sampledfuture]

Focus on the snare it is the most obvious sound difference. Hope that helps.

[@mixingbyjohn4699]

I went to school for audio, I love it. worked on a few local artist projects. But I must sadly admit, most people can't tell the difference. The artist can notice volume differences. Along with problems with too much or lack of bass. Other than that they don't care. they just want their project to sound clear. Comparing differences in mixes like this is like opening photoshop and comparing difference in the "hue" of a picture. this is a very, very TECHNICAL and discrete practice. The irony is no one actually cares anymore. they just want the model to look great, and the picture to be great. Take care brother.

[@djdrewpyroproduction]

First I must say the song sound great! Second of all the mixes sounds good! The out board analog summing has some nice mojo more so than the others. After a while to me it’s a great song regardless of which mix. Toward the end the wave had to much of some thing but I wasn’t really mad at it lol. Thanks for this!

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks Andrew for watching the video and letting us know about it! Your kind words are really appreciated. Thanks for staying with us,

[@mutantbaby1672]

NLS imparts a satisfying punch to the music that none of the others has. VCC has a little honkiness in the mids. Neither of the plugins sound smooth like Dangerous but the Dangerous might be a little too far. There is a vividness to the unsummed that is reduced too much by the Dangerous. The sound stage also seems to have shrunk. All this depends on settings though. Drive them harder/less, the results might be different.

[@arizzoschettino]

Many thanks for watching the video and leaving your comment!

[@mtlman906]

Great description of signal flow

[@arizzoschettino]

Many thanks for your kind words! Glad you liked the video!

[@nicholastoo858]

Great explanation and examples! Thanks.

[@arizzoschettino]

Hi Nicholas! Thank you very much for watching the video, enjoying the contents and leaving us your kind words of compliment. Much appreciated, until next time!

[@SupeBeatz]

The Difference isn't much, But the 2-Bus has a more focused Center that's very pleasing. I actually like the Waves Summing as well, I can hear the difference even using apple ear plugs. I was looking into getting a Neve 8816 or the new SSL Fusion & I cant decide !!!

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for watching and letting me know what you thought! Apologies for my late reply but I missed some of the comments!

[@homeworldmusic]

Dude, what an excellent explanation. Love it.

[@arizzoschettino]

Sorry for my late reply, I just missed some comments and found out about them only a few days ago. I am happy you liked the video and my approach to it. Thank you very much, it means a lot to me to receive such nice words. See you around!

[@RogerWessel]

Thanks. Great lesson and explanation of analog summing !

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for watching and for your nice comment!

[@PelDaddy]

Differences are very subtle, but the Dangerous definitely sounded the best, even on these simple Bose headphones (I don’t consider Bose “audiophile”). I was surprised by how nice the Slate plugin sounded, though. No idea what the cost difference is (this is not my field), but the Slate was actually pretty impressive for software.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for watching and sorry for the late reply! I just found lots of comments I was not notified about (not an excuse ;)). Thanks for your comment and letting me know what you think. The difference between hardware and software costs are quite big considering that hardware requires not only a computer to run the tracks on (as in digital) but also the wiring, connections, routing, furniture, etc. to use it!

[@playmode3976]

Yes definitely a difrence especially on the reverb on the snare you can actually pinpoint where it's in that space of the mix depth wise all elements feel naturally there . Low end feels a bit more solid aswel not a huge difference but definitely there but only trained ears would pick up at the end of day I would pick analog summing over digital but would not make or break a professional mix As for the plugins well .....

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for the comment and letting me know what you think!

[@Pianitara]

I can hear more openess in the vocals in the 2 bus LT summing compared to ITB. VCC does improve the sound pretty well. But compared to analog summing, it lacks openess by a certain factor. Seperation and depth is what really matters rather than harmonics. Does getting a 16 summing mixer really worth it, if depth and width is a matter of concern? Thank you.

[@arizzoschettino]

Hi Gregory, thanks for letting me know what you think and for finding the video useful! As I said in the video, analog summing is for me a matter of routing, session and outboard handling, more than it is a matter of sound from the box itself. In building a hybrid situation without a console, with multiple ins, outs abs outboard, I'd go for analog summing all the time.. which box you choose is a matter of personal taste and features. But I would still send the various outboard pieces to a summing box because of the electrical interactions that - in my opinion - make it all work better and faster to set up, and also sounds better. However, I would not recommend someone to move from ITB mixing to OTB just by getting a 16ch audio card and a summing box. Not enough benefits compared to the investment. Stay ITB, charge less, be faster with prints, save time and go fishing! ;)

[@Pianitara]

@@arizzoschettino Thank you for providing such a helpful input. Much appreciated.

[@arizzoschettino]

@@Pianitara You're welcome!

[@soulchorea]

I heard a noticeable difference with the snare, when the Slate stuff was engaged. Little more definition in the bass when the Dangerous bus was engaged....but other than that, they all sounded great to me!

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for the comment! We're glad you liked them all and until next time!

[@soulchorea]

Whoever did the original recording did a good job :)

[@arizzoschettino]

Thank you! Alberto Rizzo Schettino has handled all the recording, we'll pass on the compliments and he'll be happy to hear them ;)

[@oinkbastudios3150]

I think these days the reason why people use summing units is so that they can wire up their analog gear, synths, etc.. So in that respect they are very useful without having to buy into a console. The 2Bus doesn't have traffos (far as I'm aware), but summers like those Neumann v475's and Neve 8816's do.. so if your looking to get that big console sound (and warm up your digital).. that's the way to go !!

[@arizzoschettino]

Oinkba Studios Thanks for dropping by! The new Dangerous Music 2-Bus+ offers output transformers on the output pair that can be adjusted in "saturation" through a non-stepped knob. Our 2-Bus is the original design and does not have any additional coloration feature to choose from or adjust.

[@anthonylopez7146]

MUY BUENO yo creo que la suma analoga abre el estereo ,le da mas pegada .la aclara bastante a la mezcla,se nota bastante,yo tengo una humilde mackiee y algunos compresores de gama media,y se nota la diferencia,paso todas mis mezclas por esos aparatos y gana mucho en calidad,gracias,saludos desde argentina

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for letting me know what you thought of the video and on the sound, thanks for watching the videos and one big hug to beautiful Argentina!

[@makshoo]

Would like the center from the 2BUS-LT and sides from the SSL haha. Buy yeah, not so much difference besides that one with no summing. KZbin is not the best place for sound comparison, and in subtle things like this a 0.2 db difference in volume could be the choice maker. Good video tho, big ups!

[@arizzoschettino]

Maksymilian Biernacki Thank you very much for watching and commenting! Until next time!

[@anthonybuckley4162]

2-Bus sounds deeper and wider very clean but software has aliasing artefacts and the no summing is dull lifeless . nice master class Thank you.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for letting me know what you think and for watching the video. Glad you liked it and sorry for my late reply: I did miss a lot of comments that were not notified and now - shocked - I am replying to all of them as I feel terrible to have ignored them. Thanks again!

[@KeithMarvK]

The dangerous 2bus was definitely the warmest. Surprisingly to me, the Slate digital sound is right behind the 2bus. Not as round, but still ok. The Waves sound was thinner. Great video. Nice song choice for the example as well.

[@arizzoschettino]

Hi @Keith Harris II, thanks for the nice words on our video and for letting us know what you think. Truly appreciated!

[@guadadvent]

Salut bonjour Sorry to join so late But the difference is not big between the version The snare only seems to really benefit greatly from the summing technique Beside that all the version are good I think a client would not mind unless we give him the opportunity to listen to the different versions A bit EQ move can help the snare though I think you should test on a finished mixed for us to really see a difference Thanks for the class I did subscribe because I love the way you teach Blessings

[@arizzoschettino]

Hello @Tidave971 - don't worry you are not late for class ;) Thanks for watching and for contributing with your opinion. Real feedback is what keeps these videos real. We appreciate you liking our method of teaching. Looking forward to more chances to talk about audio stuff! Thank you,

[@the_newvoice]

Slate did a pretty good job, but Dangerous is just smoothing and everything goes deeper, because that micro-roughness is soften. And the bottom. At least now I know what 2BUS is)) Thanks!

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for dropping by, watching and commenting. I appreciate your kind words, glad it helped!

[@the_newvoice]

@@arizzoschettino Thanks!

[@sekritskworl-sekrit_studios]

Thank you.

[@godface81]

I find the results absolutely interchangeable, the D box ect are useful if you need DA converters or an exspensive speaker controller, but with the way things are going the plugins sound amazing nowadays plus if you want to sum things to get analog feel there are so many way cooler options for tweaking the sound then just ins and outs like the d box. Also things with tubes and nice transformers for nice meaty analog if desired. thanks for the video though

[@arizzoschettino]

Many thanks for the time to comment and let me know what you thought!

[@adamwarren8893]

I struggled to hear a difference, the Slate plugin seemed to make the most difference by making things bigger and warmer but that’s all I could hear. It’s a great song though, so groovy!

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks Adam! We appreciate you taking the time to stay with us for the master class and for your good words on the song. Glad you liked it!

[@djTorchLive]

Hi, very much enjoyed your Masterclass. I do have some questions in reference to the quality of the equipment needed to attain favorable results. I have an Antelope discrete 8 Interface. It seems to be setup for 8 channels of summing If I wish but I was wondering if a "prosumer" piece like this used in an analog summing environment would compete with simply something like a Slate Summing emulation plugin? What level of conversion does one need to have to make analog summing beneficial?

[@arizzoschettino]

I think the Antelope 8-ch is a great interface! Even with the best interface, however, I see little benefit to use a summing box just to go into with 8/16 channels and coming out with two. The benefits do not really make up for the cost involved in money and time. If you use 4-8 pieces of analog gear in-between the summing (as I end up doing in my hybrid mixing approach) then it might be your ticket, also for its workflow (very important) and not just for the sound of the unit, as I said in the video. Some people I know avoid that and got a couple top-shelf units (EQ+Comp, for example) and do not sum, just go into those two and come back, stereo in, stereo out. Others avoid OTB all the way and mix entirely in the box.. also because of budgets from them and/or production!

[@djTorchLive]

@@arizzoschettino thank you

[@100chuckjones]

Im sorry to disappoint anyone.. but the only way to get a true analog sound is to use true analog (IE- Tape).I did enjoy your video though. It was very interesting, very informative and great examples. I've tried many different substitutes and have been studying the differences and characteristics between digital and audio for years.I've got real close using summing but never all the way. I worked with analog for almost 20 years, then switched to digital in late 1998 (almost 20 years now) I've had really good results recording in digital (24 bit/great headroom, low noise floor) and run that mix to multitrack tape and mix from there. As I said, Great video. Thank you.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for enjoying the video and for letting us know about it! Your kind words are highly appreciated!

[@jonstringer3436]

Totally agree Chuck. I too have experimented in this field so much and have always got best results printing straight to tape as apposed to print digital and back to tape and of coarse yet again back digital. The only benefit I see here is the convenience of Copy paste punch in etc. So… the question would be what would you sacrifice? Sound quality? or the magical movements we can apply in the DAW. Really love your video by the way and thank you so much for your time publishing it. John from the UK

[@taylorgroove]

Awesome the Salte plugin sounds terrific, But when I listen trough the Dangerous Audio is like just The Sound ...I mean the sound that you expect to listen in a high end production, difficult to tell beacause is not my native lenguage , but trough de analog summing get the impression that you listen this song before, Greetings from Ecuador. Great Video

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks Charles! Don't worry: you actually expressed yourself very well! Thanks for watching the video, commenting and sharing your opinion! Big hugs to Ecuador from Berlin!

[@360takka]

The difference is very minimal for a lot more expense that the consumer would never notice

[@arizzoschettino]

Your feedback is appreciated! Thanks for watching.

[@embiebie3063]

listen from about 15;26 and follow the snare..... to my ears the waves nls ssl or " spike " preset sounds the best ..it creates more punch and edge to the snare sound ...the dangerous summ. made it more flat and nothing special maybe bit of wideness ....solidstate i cant describe between the 2 compounds i just judged... i could be wrong ...could be a loudness thing .. you decide. by the way nice vids .....keep up the good work and tnx

[@arizzoschettino]

mikey mokey Thanks for your feedback and for enjoying the video! Until next time!

[@mikemay66]

Excellent Video

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks! In a way this came as a Christmas gift, right on time! Much appreciated,

[@111calling]

Should you (typically) have your summing stuff only on groups or on the master as well?

[@arizzoschettino]

I don't use the summing box when mastering a 2-track, some people I know still do. With stem mastering, it's a different story I would probably use it.. but it becomes very project-oriented and it depends on the program, of course (and the budget the production has :))

[@JayBeBerg]

Excellent! Subtle, but seems to affect bass and presence. 2-bus slightly softer and less fatiguing.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for joining us and for your comment, JB Berg! Much appreciated!

[@JayBeBerg]

@@arizzoschettino Great stuff, thanks for sharing. Do you have a video on the signal chain? I'm interested in how exactly you plug everything together, from your DAW and back into it, what you monitor, latency, clocking etc. Cheers!

[@arizzoschettino]

@@JayBeBerg You're most welcome. No, we don't have a video like that at the moment, but if you allow us we could take this question to be answered in the next episode of our Podcast, live from the studio here in Berlin. It's available on iTunes and Spotify and produced on a weekly basis. open.spotify.com/show/4Athm84VjvKbc5egyzLTCZ

[@JayBeBerg]

@@arizzoschettino Yes, of course. I'll check out your podcast. Thanks!

[@arizzoschettino]

You're welcome, @@JayBeBerg - stay tuned later on this week for the new episode! ;)

[@rjferrara9206]

Alberto may I ask you for your judgement here? is the Lynx Aurora N 16 also fine for the AD conversion after summing or should I additionally go for a dedicated 2ch mastering converter? your advice would be much appreciated:)

[@arizzoschettino]

Hey RJ! The Aurora N 16 is perfectly fine and nobody will hear your mix and say: "AH! You totally went back to the Aurora N16 instead of having a 10,000 AD! I do not like the mix!" :) BUT, if you want to step up the game, obviously there are dedicated 2-track ADs that might give you more retention of the original. Will you notice? Will I notice? Beware that the client might also like that 'something something' the Lynx had on its way in. It's always challenging to say. So my answer is not about taste, but technical. There are technical 'better' options for 2-track (even the Lynx Hilo, to stay within the Lynx family *whose support has been invaluable to me in the past year when I set up my 2nd room*) but it's always a matter of perspective, budget, taste etc. Sometimes I had mixes that went back into the AD of a 2192 because a client loved it, the next month another client wanted the Apogee AD8000SE for it's 'magical 44.100 16 bit sound' (...?...) and most of the time I just go back to my Lavry Blue.. only to hear "no, please use the Mytek because my favorite jazz engineer used Mytek for the Hazeltine trio". It's all more about public relations and psychiatry than it is to sound :-)

[@juste_tommy2521]

Very helpful

[@charliekey2979]

how do you add hardware to the Dangerous box if it does not have inserts?

[@arizzoschettino]

I have it connected to a patchbay, all channels cascade through it so I can go out of the audio card, then into gear and then to the summing box. If I don't plug anything that way, the audio card goes directly into the summing box, it spills all of its 16 channels into the 16 channels of the summing box.

[@igmaribanez]

no summing wins for the low end, this analog loses punch, and waves vs slate are two different tastes, all summing win for the add of "life" to the track. this is my feel for today :p

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks! Your time to watch our videos and commenting is super appreciated!

[@gatlinproduction]

I agree. I experimented with the NLS Waves Plugin Way to much lows. I lost the punch to my kick. We can’t have that not while i’m a drummer. Put that can be fix. no problems Just add a little and do some cuts.

[@igmaribanez]

Fuseroom Recording Studio UG you are welcome :p this is a very intersting share and a very nice track btw ! i don't understand german but this is hot ! i guess its about a weird friendship between a boy and a girl ... ?

[@igmaribanez]

gatlinproduction i assume that analog summ is all about adding harmonics, i prefer harmonic saturation plugins such as vertigo vsm3, bx saturator, manny dist, kush transformers, trash2, kramer tape, sdrr2 ... im working on em and this is just perfect for drums ( punch, eq, transient shape ect...)

[@RodneyD]

igmaribanez Summing also adds width and better separation of the stereo field. It’s allows the converters to be hit allot harder then you’re standard converters inside your DAW’s master stereo buss. In other words you can push your channel faders into the red while summing for musical saturation.

[@Psalmistjamel246]

I have this device in my studio i need help routing in protools can you help.

[@arizzoschettino]

One year later :) sorry for being this late, I hope you solved the isses :)

[@boxingmafia1435]

Great video thanks!

[@arizzoschettino]

Boxing Mafia much appreciated, thank you!

[@DatAnydex]

Very helpful video. Good job, and thank you 👍🏻

[@arizzoschettino]

Elias Antonas Thank you for joining us and for the kind words!

[@Shari_Tejp]

This is the best video about this topic and you are no-bullshit guy. I like that :D

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks Shari! Much appreciated. I am sorry for the late reply, I truly appreciate your kind words and they're good for the morale!

[@flyhi1ghkomp]

Please provide the .WAV files (DM, Slate, none) for comparison and analysis. Just the same length & section of the track (45 second or something) so I can switch back and forth between the files in DAW for better accessment. DM summing box is often of my interest. I have good headphone and monitor system but somehow I can't hear much difference in your video. Really like your video works and here to say thank you.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for watching and for letting me know what you thought about it. Unfortunately I cannot release the stems/tracks on licensing grounds but there might be more chances to do tests like these in the future. I agree that would definitely be better, I know the audio compression might play some role but I assure you that's exactly how the session comparison was done in editing, with the tracks lined up and switching around. I did my best to try and get to the optimal comparison, limitations notwithstanding.

[@elpablitorodriguezharrera]

The dangerous sounds richer and waves especially ss make it so cheaper on midrange

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for enjoying the video and leaving us your comment! Much appreciated,

[@DavidDavis-FA-photog]

For the money the Waves NLS is kicking ass as far as I can hear.

[@arizzoschettino]

Hey David! Thanks for letting me know what you thought. NLS is some solid platform for sure, often overlooked!

[@the_newvoice]

Best looking place I saw

[@arizzoschettino]

Thank you! We put a lot of effort in the construction of the studio. Glad you loved it, so much hard work!

[@the_newvoice]

@@arizzoschettino You're made a great job indeed! Good luck!

[@arizzoschettino]

@@the_newvoice many many thanks!

[@darkerartslab8240]

That´s a great lesson, thanks for sharing your wisdom Engineer I have a doubt about how you return your summed mix in a A/D convertor, you use two different kinds of Convertors for digital to analog and vice versa? Which is the name of the convertor you talked is a great convertor?

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for the nice comment! We are glad you liked the videos. Yes: we do have separate AD and DA units for using in the studio. Our mixes usually go back to Pro Tools through our UA 2192 or through an Apogee PSX-100. Both really great but very different in soundstage presentation! Other common uses are the Prism AD-1, we've used Larry, Mytek, Lynx and probably some more and they're all very good and trustworthy.

[@darkerartslab8240]

Thank you, have a nice new year!

[@marshalzua2918]

Thanks so much

[@arizzoschettino]

Thank you for letting me know! 🙏

[@gatlinproduction]

Help me more understand a more basic approach. exsample are you saying it’s like mixing in the box. Meaning taking all your drums Thur and aux. 1/2 keyboard and strings 3/4 all Guitar’s 5/6 etc print to separate audio tracks going the plugins?

[@arizzoschettino]

gatlinproduction Hello there! Yes, with real analog summing, even if you still have your ITB busses for groups, you will send your busses to physical outputs that then go into the summing box. The summing box will then give you an output pair that is indeed the “summed” result. That pair can go to any outboard you might want to use and then finally to an A/D for capturing back the audio into the DAW, for example. You basically stem heading out of the box instead of stemming in-the-box as it’s often done for jobs that require stemming for various reasons.

[@gatlinproduction]

Hey Buddy. I just tried Analog Summing using my NSL Waves plugin. I look at a video using it with waves. Man That’s hot!! But check this out. I’ve been mixing this way for years. But never brought back Analog in. I know I use to try this over and over again using my Yamaha Mixing Live Mixing Console and it was hard going back in forward. kzbin.info/www/bejne/foGrqopprK2piM0

[@rengrag4868]

2bus LT wins the race...more depth...thanks for this video...keep it up....

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks man! Appreciate your comment and feedback, sorry for my late reply, my bad I just found out about these comments I never replied to. Thanks for watching and joining my channel!

[@riktascale4]

Dangerous box=depth. Listen to the bass to vocal dimension vs the plugs. However I don't mix through my summing box because I can't get reference 4 sonar works to run on my print track. I get my best mix with ref 4 on my stereo bus then I run my stems though my summing bus for that ADDITIONAL MOJO!

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for your feedback! Sorry about the late reply, I just found out about these older comments. My bad! Reference should work on your printing if you route out an aux just for monitoring it, while printing the 'non Sonarworks' track clean (obviously you don't want Sonarworks Reference to be affecting your mix, just the monitoring). In PT, if you have issues with plug-in delay compensation, you can tell PT to ignore the delay on Reference and it won't bother you when you work in Linear Phase, for example.

[@ZimmermanTube]

I've heard the song with my eyes closed. Whenever I found something different I opened my eyes to see If I am right about what I was thinking while listening the song. To me the difference is not night and day. But there is some difference. To me I've found a little bit punchy snare and nice sibling vocal when it shifts from Digtal to analog.

[@arizzoschettino]

Thanks for watching the video and letting me know what you think. Glad you found it useful and good method on the blind test ;)