Fw 200 Condor vs. Atlantic Convoys - Was it any good?

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- Disclaimer: This video is sponsored by War Thunder
- Check out my books -
Ju 87 Stuka - stukabook.com
STG-44 Assault Platoon - sturmzug.com
German Panzer Company 1941 - www.hdv470-7.com/
- Support -
Patreon: / milavhistory
Channel Memberships: / @militaryaviationhistory
PayPal: www.paypal.me/MilAvHis
- Museum Acknowledgements -
Thank you to the RAF Museum:
www.rafmuseum.org.uk/
Fw 200 restauration:
fw200-restaurierung-bremen.de/
- Social Media -
Twitter: / milavhistory
Instagram: / milaviationhistory
Facebook: / militaryaviationhistory
- Sources -
Chris Goss, Fw 200 Condor Units of World War 2, Osprey Publishing, Oxford: 2016.
Chris Goss, Focke Wulf Fw 200 - The Condor at War 1939-1945, Crecy Publication, 2017.
Deutsche Luftwaffe.de, Focke-Wulf Fw 200 F: Fernaufklärer mit erhöhter Reichweite, Mai 1943.
D. (Luft) T. 2661/1 Fw 200 C-1 und C-2, Vorläufiges Flugzeughandbuch, Ausgabe Juni 1940.
Jürgen Rohwer, Critical Convoy Battles of WWII - Crisis in the North Atlantic, Stackpole Books, Mechanicsburg, 2015.
Robert Forczyk, Fw 200 Condor vs Atlantic Convoy 1941-1943, Osprey Publishing, Oxford, 2011.
RM 7/2383, OKM B.Nr. 129052/38 g.kdos., Vortrag Oberst Coeler vom 9.11.37 über Entwicklungsstand des Materials der Seeluftstreitkräfte, 29.11.1938.
Sönke Neitzel, Der Einsatz der deutschen Luftwaffe über dem Atlantik und der Nordsee 1939-1945, Bernard & Graefe Verlag: 1996.
Sönke Neitzel, Zum strategischen Misserflog verdammt?, in Bruno Thoß, Erster Weltkrieg, Zweiter Weltkrieg - Ein Vergleich, 2002.
- Timecodes -
00:00 - Disclaimer
00:27 - Intro
01:29 - Bombers vs ships
04:32 - A question of planes [Fw 200]
11:31 - The coming of a scourge (?)
12:06 - War Thunder Sponsor
12:10 - Tactics & simulated attack
12:58 - Early operations
14:59 - Condors & U-Boats = ?
17:46 - Reading recommendations
18:45 - Reasons for success
21:22 - Fliegerführer Atlantik
21:50 - Countermeasures
23:06 - Escalation
27:36 - Condor: The Legacy
30:55 - Naval perspective [Drachinifel]
35:56 - Fw 200 - What is it good for?
37:49 - Recon is hard
40:06 - Fw 200 Restoration
40:52 - War Thunder: Sponsored Segment
41:56 - Outro
- Audio -
Music and Sfx from Epidemic Sound
#Fw200 #condor #militaryaviationhistory

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

*Video topic was voted for by Patreons and Channel Members, y'all be awesome* Correction: My number curse continous at 29:13. I accidentally wrote 55% for losses by Allied Air. Checking my notes it is in fact ~45%. Thanks viewer Scarecrow Repair who pointed it out

[@Joze1090]

No u :)

[@hazed1009]

More Chris! More! 😀😁Another fantastic video. Please do more like this, loved it. First time ive ever been amused to be hit with ads. "heres some ww2 ads" Boom adverts. I even didnt skip to give you the revenue. A very rare thing indeed for me. (i despise adverts!) But in the end, worth it for such interesting content.

[@RemusKingOfRome]

Excellent video. PLEASE setup an account on Od-y-See, I'm leaving this advert plagued site

[@yoda5565]

Were your relatives the ones who reported convoy positions? It would explain a lot.

[@johnwolf2829]

But what about all the amphibian aircraft with 2, 3 and even 4 engines? Germany had a great selection of those aircraft to work with, maybe a vid on those little-known planes would be a good idea.

[@Drachinifel]

Silly flying things menacing my precious shinys! 😀

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

*floating targets ;)

[@Luksky2701]

the man the Legend himself, man I love your Videos. You are the person that made me interested in navel history. keep up the great work

[@x7731]

Inter-service rivalry in a nutshell. Now all we need is MHV to complete the prophecy.

[@Rauschgenerator]

@@Luksky2701 Both of them; in the beginning I thought "oh well, this isn't presented very professionally"... but as always, it's the content that matters! And both improved over the time (as every channel does, that is not filmed by professional camera people...).

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

I didn't know the Skritt had ships ... .

[@77Cardinal]

Chris, I labored for 2 years in a US High School trying to speak and write German. I did not do too well and the remnants of my German education allows me to declare that I enjoy lemonade. Watching you switch from English to German and back in a highly technical discussion of history (which is one reason why I was interested in being able to understand the language) is not only impressive, I have to appreciate your effort and skill to be clear in English. I never would have had access to some of this history if YOU hadn't been better at learning a second language than I was. Thank you, Your Subscriber, John.

[@terminusest5902]

We need more researchers with knowledge of German, Russian, Japanese and other languages at access original documents that have so far not been translated effectively. This has been vital in filling in blanks and removing many misconceptions that have developed since WW2. There is a huge wealth in documents that are still available. The Battle for Midway has been a clear example where western historians relied on very little and incorrect information translated into English. Giving us a better understanding of the Japanese view and checking for mistakes made by historians. Other mistakes made by historians have also proved false so we need to refer to original allied documents as well. Part of the problem has been from biased views on WW2. Including biographies by German veterans and military leaders. The same problem happens with Soviet history. On the Soviet side of Operation Barbarossa, we have some very different descriptions of Stalin's actions. Some saying he isolated himself for days or weeks when important decisions need to be made. And many Soviet commanders were fearful of making decisions themselves without Stalin's approval. But some evidence shows this was wrong. Another author was investigating Russian archives to try and find the remains of Hitler or what happened to them. He may have found part of Hitlers' skull. Soviet propaganda has also had a bad influence on history and western historians have not had much factual information to base books on. Early WW2 historians also made mistakes that became accepted facts. So modern historians need to search for original allied WW2 documents. Some allied historians may also have had biased views or failed to do thorough research. Added to this was deliberate allied disinformation during WW2 which was reported in the media. There were many examples of allied disinformation to confuse the Germans.

[@thhseeking]

I remember, from High School, "Ich ube geige", which I think means " I am driving the guy who created the Alien creature" :P

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

Chris's English is INFINITELY BETTER than my German...😊

[@dogloversrule8476]

What he said

[@uberkloden]

German is a sister language to English. Germany is related to Britain, through Royal marriages and language similarities.

[@lmc4964]

my mother saw one of these as a kid, she grew up in South Kerry in the south west of Ireland , one crash landed about 3 or 4 miles from their farm. It must have been quite the scene

[@blackkers3189]

Wow that's really interesting, my Nan was from Kerry as well, never mentioned anything rhou

[@lmc4964]

@@blackkers3189 "20th August 1940 a German Luftwaffe plane known as a Focke Wulf 200 ”Condor” crash landed on Faha Ridge above Cloghane. The crew of six survived and were the first aircrew from Germany to land in Ireland during the war years and were happily imprisoned for the entire war. Imprisoned in the Curragh Internment Camp is a loose term as it is a well-known fact that the internees were allowed sign out to attend horse racing at the Curragh, to attend public dances and to visit the German Embassy. While visiting the German Embassy two German internees met their future Irish wives."

[@blackkers3189]

@@lmc4964 Wow, thanks, I'll look it up

[@TysoniusRex]

@@lmc4964 This is really awesome! Nice to see a happy ending for someone!

[@Vortex-7358]

@@lmc4964 that makes it sound like it was more intentionally crashed rather than forced to xD though I guess it better than being captured on the eastern Front

[@TheChieftainsHatch]

Interesting that they liked a beam approach. By the time of the Falklands, bow or stern was preferred on the basis that lining up on a target was pretty easy, the tricky bit was timing the bomb release. Of course, attack speeds were much faster in the 1980s. I wonder, as anti-shipping technique evolved in WW2 (For all nations), if there was any particular further evolution of the thought. This is, of course, separate to the matter of attempting to limit the amount of air defenses which could be brought to bear which you mention.

[@CastleGraphics]

It was probably somewhat dependent on the platform. The B-25Js used in the Pacific liked to use the broadside attack, as they used the skip-bombing technique which was most effective when a ship was perpendicular to your attack run. Plus, if you were using the 75, it presented quite a large target.

[@RexKarrs]

@@CastleGraphics If you were in a B-24 over the Atlantic Gap and came across a U-boat with its collective pants down on the surface, would you attack it as you were, or would you circle around to make a "by-the-book" attack, knowing that it might be able to dive while you were maneuvering? Likewise in the Med during Torch when attacking an Axis convoy with P-38s and B-26s. Did the AAF have tactical doctrine to guide you in the making of such an attack?

[@01Bouwhuis]

Well...a beam approach reduces the amount of aa fire and gives you the biggest surface an therefore chance for a hit. Like strafing a column of tanks.. For a torpedo run on would pick the broadside of a ship, there is a video on the swordfish and its sightingsystem for a torpedo.

[@ericgrace9995]

You should check out the Battle of the Bismarck Sea. Australian and American aircraft destroyed a Japanese invasion fleet, sinking at least 14 ships and destroying an entire Japanese Infantry Division and its equipment. The initial attacks were carried out by Australian Beaufighters , which the Japanese mistook for Beaufort torpedo bombers. The ships turned to face their attackers, presenting them with the smallest target. However these were Beaufighters, heavy twin engined fighters, armed with 4x20mm cannon and 6X 303s. The Japanese had presented the perfect target to these fighters - which raked them from bow to stern, smashing their bridges and destroying AA guns. The ships were then attacked by American Mitchells, skip bombing into the sides of the now defenceless troop transports. Destroyer escorts fared no better with 4 being sunk. All 8 troop transports were sunk. The next morning, Beaufighters retuned to destroy the lifeboats and rafts filled with the surviving Japanese soldiers and sailors. It was one of the most one sided and merciless naval victories in history.

[@BeKindToBirds]

Bombsights improved, fire control systems for aa batteries improved, ship speed improved Seems like yet another proof war is dictated by physics.

[@stnylan]

It's just great to see two of my favourite youtubers collaborating. I must say I note that Drach's segment (30:55-35:55) is probably the first time Drach has been kept to five minutes in years now. Well done! I dearly hope that was on purpose. :)

[@Drachinifel]

I admit nothing :D

[@jonathanhill4892]

Yes, but who wants Drach to be limited to 5 minutes?

[@stnylan]

@@jonathanhill4892 Fair point :)

[@michaelporzio7384]

more or less, more is better!

[@fernandofolgueira5191]

Well done collaboration! I’d like to see more of this from all KZbinr,s

[@samyzx3145]

I lost it when you took the Fw 200 flyer as a comparison for KZbin ads LOL Another great video Biz!

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Just trying to make sure everyone understands the concept of ads 🤣☺️

[@captain61games49]

And then I had an add immediately as he said that

[@trauko1388]

I have a Daimler Benz poster, Mercedes logo + Bf 109.

[@samyzx3145]

@@trauko1388 Noice

[@namorhamsantorin]

@@captain61games49 Same

[@oddballsok]

22:20 instead of Sunderland; Liberator; In a 1989 interview with the Imperial War Museum in London, the Highlander’s captain, Colin William McMullen, described the dogfight as “really like a sort of Jules Verne scene, with these two enormous aircraft weaving about, shooting at one another.” After rescuing the american Liberator crew, “who were extremely angry at being shot down,” McMullen said the ship “dashed off and found where the Focke-Wulf had gone into the sea. And there were three Germans swimming for Portugal, which was rather a long way away, and we picked up the Focke-Wulf crew. And as they came on the upper deck up the ladder, [they] came face to face with the American crew. And it was only by great tact that we managed to prevent them continuing the engagement on our upper deck.”

[@Easy-Eight]

The hate runs deep. Back in 2002 there was a G.I. vet & a German vet. The two were Normandy veterans and the German went ballistic when the American said they shot prisoners.

[@contactohn7982]

Nuke em too, I always say

[@jamiekamihachi3135]

Now I want to see pictures of Condors and Sunderlands in broadside shootouts.

[@maxneild8151]

I know my Dad's uncle flew Martlets(Wildcats) off the Audacity and had several run-ins with Condors. He was credited with shooting one down after it had shot down his Commander. He survived the destruction of Audacity only to die later off Gibraltar on the Avenger. I met Eric Brown at Duxford and he remembered David and talked at length about the Condors...very dangerous adversaries.

[@TheSoundsage]

Remarkable story. Eric Brown shot down a Condor himself.

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

TILT: I had thought the Condors were almost entirely used for patrol, to find convoys for the U-boats. I did not realize they were expected to attack them also. I did not know their position reports were so far off, and it would be interesting to compare to British and American position reports, which I bet were just as bad. I know American USAAF reports in the South Pacific were awful, misclassifying ship types, wrong positions, wrong numbers, etc, and that communications between USAAF, USN, and Australians were pretty flaky, sometimes taking a day to be forwarded just a few hundred miles. Heck, one USN scout even messed up his message back to his own carrier, misleading them into attacking a small force as if it were the main force (Coral Sea? Do not remember)

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Yeah, I would definitely interested in comparing those. Wondering if they ever made a study on it, certainly would be something I'd assume they'd do

[@citadelgrad87]

I think the problem was “buck fever”, at least its similar. Long hours, grueling but boring patrols, then you see some ships and it HAS to be carriers, right?

[@MsZeeZed]

It was the beginning of Coral Sea and a coding error from a US spotter plane had accidentally upgraded the IJN warship types. Fortunately for the American carriers, who had launched a full strike, Japanese spotter flights had made a similar error and the Japanese carrier attack flights went wild goosing in the opposite direction after a US tanker. The opposing carrier groups were sat plane-less (except the CAPs) 150 miles apart both having sent their attack waves off at almost 180 degrees to the real location of their enemies.

[@Simon_Nonymous]

Yes a comparative study would be nice - I can only reflect what I have read, that their sighting reports accuracy for the U Boots to head for, was truly uninspiring.

[@Caseytify]

@@MsZeeZed I've read that according to legend the two forces actually passed each other on their way to their respective targets.

[@Seraphus87]

Mentions FW200 ads, compares them to YT ads... YT: "Hey that's me!" *slaps viewers with ads*

[@robinsonsstudios]

For completions sake, there was another heavy maritime patrol aircraft that was way more capable than the 200 but gets generally overlooked : the Ju 290 A5 Seeadler. It had tremendous range, heavy defensive armament and there were versions that could carry guided anti shipping missiles like the hs 293( I am not sure if these were ever employed tho). They were introduced on 1943 if memory serves me correctly but like with the 200 there were only few available since it was a big and expensive machine

[@williamzk9083]

The Fw 290 evolved out of the Luftwaffe 4 engine Ju 89 Bomber which flew in 1937. After the cancellation of all 4 engine bombers in April 29th of that year Junkers evolved the aircraft into the Ju 90A transport with the same wings and much of the fuselage. In 1939 the Ju 90A transport evolved into the Ju 90B which had a new wing and tail plane devoid of the Junkers double flaps wing and using Jumo 211A engines. The Ju 90B prototype became the Ju 290 with BMW 801 engines. It was meant as a transport but soon became a maritime reconnaissance aircraft and as you said extremely powerful, long range and multiple 20mm turrets. The vertical stowage bomb bay of the Ju 89 had been lost but since the main use would be as a maritime reconnaissance bomber wing pylons carrying Hs 293 and Fritz-X missiles were all that was needed. -The Ju 290B wasto be a version with the BMW 801T-J2 turbocharged engine, light pressurization and a large ventral bombing pannier that also added a ventral gunners position. The BMW 801-TJ-2 while not as powerful as the Curtiss Wright R-3350 had better high altitude performance due to retaining its 2 speed mechanical supercharger and large inter-cooler. The aircraft was expected to have a penetration speed of 600kmh at 30,000m. This is better than the B-29. - Bottom line with the Ju 89 and Do 19 German could have had a 4 engines bomber with 1000hp BMW 323 engines in service by 1939. The engines would rise to 1200hp with water injection. This would have evolved to Jumo 211J engines of up to 1450hp and finally the BMW 801 of 1700-2000hp. -Only about 70 Ju 290 were produced. No one took action to promote it. It's cl;ear that with Goering and the Luftwaffe in charge of aviation nothing would be done. Nothing became better until Goering fell from grace after lying about being able to airlift to Stalingrad in late 1942

[@flask0390]

This cooperation between Chris and Drach really is the perfect match. Both are very similar in there thorough and sober-minded way to approach a subject. This should be happening more often.

[@drosera88]

Love your vids (and Drachinifel). Takes me back to a time where the 'History Channel' was actually a history channel and not the 'Ancient Aliens, baseless speculation, and reality show channel.' You seriously put out more history in 42 minutes than the History Channel puts out in a week these days.

[@robinmacfarlane4769]

great video. thanks. as a slight aside, my dad was in the merchant navy during the war, never saw a condor, but when boarding a new ship one of the first things he noticed after getting on board was the anti aircraft armament. A construction of angle iron with a sign on it saying: Not to be fired under any circumstance! It was some sort of rocket projector which hit everything above deck level on the ship on the one occasion it was used, including the bridge. there was no record of what effect it had on the enemy. they probably crashed from laughing. after all the ship was still there. sadly never got the name of the ship off him. pity. still miss my dad. all the best keep up the good work.

[@lotharhensel8194]

My old flight instructor told me that he messed up a navigation exam. From his point of view, that saved his life. All those who passed the exam joined the Conder squadrons and were killed. He also told me that the Condor's structure was too weak.

[@RaptorRed79]

Interesting! In all the conversations i have had with my Grandfather he never once mentioned this plane. I know he sailed with the Canadian Navy and did convoy escort duty for almost the whole war. He always said the Stuka was more feared. I guess they where more common in the air attacks that happened on his trips. However so I know Grandpa did not like speaking about the war. So I can understand in a way.

[@mathewkelly9968]

Probably never saw one

[@RaptorRed79]

@@mathewkelly9968 even if he had. He most like would not have know what they where called, and as I mentioned he Really didn't like talking about his experiences during the war.

[@jamiekamihachi3135]

@@RaptorRed79 was he on Atlantic convoys or the Mediterranean?

[@tomt373]

@RaptorRed79 As a dive bomber, the Stuka was better suited for the role of anti-shipping attacks.

[@RaptorRed79]

@@jamiekamihachi3135 Atlantic convoys Royal Canadian Navy didn't do much in the Mediterranean as far as I know. He sailed between Halifax Canada and Dairy in Ireland

[@kahoki]

Great detail on the Fw-200 and its role in the Battle of the Atlantic and co-ordinating with Drachinfel, as is has been an interesting second act of WW II history to have been reading Ballentine Books as a kid and to have so much more media available to learn and appreciate as a middle-aged adult. Neat to see that the Fw-200 had bomb bays on the outer engine nacelles! Nice touch with the Operation Bodenplatte reference ;)

[@jayklink851]

Brilliant video, and one hell of an interesting topic! Physically reading documents, and translating, from the archives must take both time and energy; thank you for creating this content!

[@CJ-nv8zk]

He does great work. When and if God willing I can support him I will in some small way.

[@nametrashatlife7443]

I’m watching hogans heroes right now

[@jayklink851]

@@nametrashatlife7443 Than you are an cultured officer and a gentlemen :). I love Hogan's Heroes, probably my favorite series.

[@jeffbonekemper8163]

"If you speak the Kraut ..." That is the most best/funniest/Wonderbra things since I heard this German trying to sing the 'Yellow Rose of Texas.' Danke

[@thestardusters7640]

I enjoyed this subject. During my career as a pilot with Eastern Air Lines I was mentored by a former Luftwaffe pilot who flew convoy reconnaissance missions in the JU-290. A report in that airplane would be appreciated. My mentor remarked that he soon realized that if the convoys were only carrying stones, Germany would eventually be buried.

[@clevernamegotban1752]

Germans sure did have a eloquent way of talking about defeat. "If you see a plane its Americans, if you see one taking photos its British, if you don't see one at all its German" etc. Always quick with a joke or something witty about losing. Ju-290 seems like a really interesting aircraft to have flown during the war.

[@garybrader8447]

@@clevernamegotban1752 the German's quote is "if the plane is silver, it is American, if it is camouflaged, it is British, if it is not there at all, it is ours."

[@VosperCDN]

It was interesting to hear about it's actual effectiveness, having read the contemporary stories about them. This plane still manages to look fairly modern, for such an older design (imo).

[@andrewblake2254]

It would have made a cool airliner.

[@makoja7693]

@@andrewblake2254 it was a cool airliner until it get converted.

[@momotheelder7124]

Contempory of the DC-3 which sort of created the template for modern airliners.

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

Friend's father was a junior ship engineer on the Atlantic convoys. Sadly died in the 1990s from health effects from the cold then. He always said he was amazed how he got through it, other ships he served went down to Davey's locker, one just one mission after.

[@Luksky2701]

9:40 minutes: they had ads, like youtube ads... *KZbin ad starts playing* Me: You mad genius!

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

[@teetar1751]

I think I appreciate your shift into the ad was one of the best, had a good chuckle, and watched your ad instead of skip. 👍

[@jltb5283]

Very interesting - Thanks! BTW I think your plant needs water.

[@jiks270]

Seems that directly it was ineffective but indirectly was a great success. The sheer amount of resources expended on the allied side to counter the handful of planes operational at any one time is quite staggering when you think about. Especially good episode IMO, good to see the colab with Drach and the cameo appearance by Bo near the end!

[@buffuniballer]

So like two things that seem to be opposites can be true at the same time. A menace to the Allies as the potential of an attack was indeed a menace. Yet a failure for the Axis as the resources expended for the destruction may not have lived up to the promise.

[@jiks270]

@@buffuniballer Yes, it's a question who wasted the greatest proportion of their resources on/because of the Condor. On outright resources I'd strongly suspect the allies but of course they had far more available.

[@Ther2000]

Great video! im actually very interested in the do26. Would actually learn more about these too as i cannot find much about them. But the design looks great on first glance. Keep up the great vids

[@yoda5565]

Excellent presentation of a much-maligned aircraft. The Condor's career with Lufthansa is notable, also its role as the "Fuhrermaschine". I do hope you get access to the one in Berlin.

[@whbrown1862]

Great episode! It is interesting that the lack of cooperation between branches of both German and Japanese WWII forces seemed to play a part in their ultimate demise during the war.

[@Warmaker01]

The only nation in WWII that has worse service cooperation than the German air force and navy, was Japan. Their army and navy loathed each other and did not mind leaving the other in dangerous binds. When Tojo was prime minister of Japan, he was still an active duty general of the IJA. In the early phases of the Pacific War, the IJN was looking real good with all their spectacular victories at sea. When the IJN was crushed at Midway, Tojo was happy because it took the navy down a few notches. Never mind that in the Pacific War against the USA, the navy had to win in a spectacular fashion for Japan to stand a chance. That didn't matter... As long as the navy was humiliated, it was all good for the army, even if it's for the worse for Japan.

[@spudskie3907]

At 9:41 he says, “Just like KZbin ads.” As soon as he finished saying that, a KZbin ad popped up. Well done my friend! 👏

[@knutboehnert3163]

Really nice that you mentioned the restored example at Tempelhof.

[@RadioactiveSherbet]

"There's so many wars with Germany." I laughed. I found it particularly funny being said by a German.

[@psikogeek]

Timestamp: 2:28 I thought that pretty funny, too.

[@metaphyzikal1]

Nice video Bismarck, I knew a few things about the Condor, but you really filled in the gaps in my knowledge. It would be interesting to see how the IJN dealt with shipping in the Pacific too, a topic I know absolutely nothing about, having only looked at the Battle of The Atlantic.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

The Fw200 was initially an airliner, capable of long range. It was pressed into maritime patrol because of it's range and relative speed. The plane was never properly militarized. This resulted in structural issues under combat loads and the tactics used while bombing. One of the biggest structural issues was cracking of the wing spars. The result of overloading and excessive G forces from combat maneuvers. As for how effective it was the answer is in the resulting CAM merchant ships. It was enough of a threat to risk pilots lives.

[@andrewtolley3706]

Thank you for an erudite and interesting presentation. Despite it's obvious short comings as a maritime patrol aircraft, it must surely be one of the most aesthetically pleasing Aircraft from FW design bureau. Another topic you might consider would be the battle of wits between Coastal command and both the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine during the period known as 'the batttle of the Bay' [Biscay] There is little archive film of the period, but it is well documented, and is a little- represented phase of the Battle of the atlantic that ultimately proved the supremacy of Allied tactics and new radar technology.

[@maximiliantomasoski4032]

I am a simple man. You synchronizing “starting with a bang” 22:43 with the ship blowing up is just stellar attention to detail and shows your great personality lol

[@ronjon7942]

Laf, yeah, that was great.

[@earlyriser8998]

great video...I grew up hearing about the Condor and how it was such an effective enemy....but then UI read the history and no one mentions the Condor ahead of the submarines.... so now it is finally clear that there were never enough Condors and they were never set up to fly critical missions to maximize ship sunks

[@andrewpease3688]

The condor forced a lot of expensive counter measures on to the British as you point out. Among them was a desperate need to armour the bridges of merchant ships. Armour plate was in very short supply which resulted in the very interesting development of plastic armour.

[@charliescott7764]

Fun Fact. The great Eric "Winkle" Brown shot down 2 of these which he called Kuriers while flying Martlets from HMS Audacity. He also flew Himmler's personal FW200. All described in Wings On My Sleeve. Great video again. Thanks

[@The_Modeling_Underdog]

Chris, a small correction on surviving Condors. The soviet Polar Aviation used a couple of them post-war, maybe three at best, for long range iceberg spotting and supply missions.

[@jamesd3472]

Very interesting video. I hadn't considered the potential discrepancies between the reported position and the actual position of the convoy previously. Easy to forget human error when looking at war machines. It would be interesting at some point for there to be a video on allied anti-shipping operations with the Beaufighter and Mosquito strike wings. Both as a comparison and just generally. I'm now remembering books that had lots of pictures of these attacks and how I thought they were the most amazing things in the world when I was younger.

[@gerardlabelle9626]

I was the opposite: I was mighty impressed that any ships and aircraft managed to locate and rendezvous with friendly units, let alone the enemy! I just assumed aircrews only had a very rough idea of their own location, especially in bad weather. “How on earth did they ever make it back to base?” was a vexing mystery for me.

[@ndenise3460]

Astral compass, drift sights a good navigator pretty easy to get within about 10k

[@hawkertyphoon4537]

"started with a *Kaboom* Bang..." It is good to see you grow up, you have become well-versed at your Craft. Keep it up!

[@FM_1819]

Loved that you used Bo's clip in the WT ad

[@charleswade2514]

As always great information and visuals. Your humor is appreciated too.

[@groupcaptainbonzo]

The Condor started the war filling in a niche to which the Allies had no answer. The tech was not available. But as is always the case, an answer arose, and the Condor became comparatively negated. Just a victim of progress

[@allangibson2408]

The Allies answered it with first catapult fighters and then escort carriers. FW200’s were very fragile aircraft.

[@scratchy996]

@@allangibson2408 The FW200 was a commercial airliner, forced into a role it wasn't designed for.

[@allangibson2408]

@@scratchy996 A LOT of Maritime surveillance aircraft are converted airliners. How well they are converted is an entirely separate question.

[@scratchy996]

@@allangibson2408 Maritime surveillance is one thing, the FW200 had to also execute bombing maneuvers it wasn't designed for.

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

@@scratchy996 Yeah,you can't compare dropping a missile to dive bombing.

[@navelriver]

Very well researched and presented!

[@deltavee2]

30:50 Drach's name pronounced in proper German sounds quite cool. Thanks, Chris. And thanks to Alex for actually doing a 5-minute video! Not to be taken as a complaint! I greedily consume the work of both of you from opening second to the last and the run time is irrelevant. You both research carefully and present clearly. There is a clear case for future generations making compendiums of the entire bodies of the works of both of you. Yes, you are both that good.

[@disekjoumoer]

Chris, your witty banter is pure gold.

[@rickmartin8626]

Another excellent and informative video. Thank you for posting this.

[@marcinzarod6612]

Great material, rich on details. I enjoyed your explanations, as well as great conversation with the maritime operations. I would love to read or hear more about the Condor unit everyday life, examples of u-boat coordinations etc. I found that Ospreys were too limited on those details.

[@bryandavies6074]

Great exposition and enhanced by the perspective leant by Drach. Thank you.

[@thelonious2213]

YES!!! Finally! I've been waiting for this one for months now!!!

[@josephrasberry3850]

Thanks for the content buddy love aviation and military history in general.

[@wytfish4855]

i'd pay double, or triple, even, to watch a broadside duel between the sunderland and the condor, really.

[@cannonfodder4376]

An informative video on a very much overlooked airplane, learned quite a bit today. Excellent work Bis.

[@pauld6967]

Another good video. At 9:25 your text card says "spooter" instead of "spotter." Just thought you should know & confirm that some of us are paying attention. As an aside, it is always enjoyable when you join Bo Time Gaming for War Thunder videos.

[@rare_kumiko]

Great video, thanks Chris! (and Drach)

[@jacobfessel9008]

Nice video! My grandfather was a Norwegian soldier on the island of Jan mayn and Iceland during the war. On Jan mayn the managed to shoot down a rw200 and also due to poor weather conditions it crashed into the only mountain. My granddad saved a toolbox from the wreck and cut out pieces of aluminum from the wings and had 3 letter opening knives made of it. One of wich I open letters with every now & then…

[@darwinism8181]

The WT audio had me alt-tabbing to make sure I hadn't started the game, queued, and bombed something without noticing

[@johngilbert6036]

Your Patron entry was Brilliant thanks for the smile. Content was really interesting.

[@americanpatriot2422]

Outstanding video and presentation

[@francescosguegliamariano5309]

Amazing videos… Big support for your passion and work from Italy

[@retepeyahaled2961]

Excellent video. Very strong analysis of the tactical and stratrgic use of the Condor. It would have been nice though to have seen more of the plane itself; for example technical data, comparison to the Sunderland, defensive capabilities and so on. Now something different: could you make an overview which airplanes stood out in history and modelled the history of aviation? When I look at the history of tanks, it is easy to mention several tanks that did just that: Renault Ft17 being the first with a turret, Pantzer III with an modern division of tasks among the crew, T34 regarded as the first modern tank...

[@ronjon7942]

I looked at the rebuild/build, restoration/scratchbuild of the Condor Bremen project. It is really a sleek and beautiful aircraft; to my eye it’s every bit as beautiful as a Constellation. A flight line full of both the military and commercial (?) variants would be a sight to behold. The Bremen project is proof of where there is will….the condition of the airplane pretty much makes it a 100% brand new handbuilt airplane, and the breakup of the original wreck when suspended by a crane did not help. Thank you for posting the link in the description.

[@TysoniusRex]

As one might expect, my favorite part was the shameless self-promotion. Thanks, Chris and see you on Patreon!

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Hah, imagine how those segments would look if only I'd put into them a fraction of the effort I put into the content :D

[@TysoniusRex]

@@MilitaryAviationHistory If it makes you feel better, you can tell your Dark Masters at War Thunder that I'm going to try it out. And thanks again for the video, it was very informative, as always, and I'd very much like to see an Inside the Cockpit of the FW-200 at some point. Happy Holidays!

[@CJ-nv8zk]

Never ever feel shame for your self promotion!!! Great work deserves it. I'm one of the leeches that subscribes but cannot support you at this time. Thank you so much for your work for one of my interests

[@acrumblingworld7756]

Wonderful and informative video. Though your mention of low operational rates of aircraft in WW2 makes me think about the Pe-8 and Soviet heavy bombers in general, perhaps a video on that would be enlightening as well?

[@justinwilliams2000]

I agree, honestly the first I’ve heard about those aircraft was in War Thunder.

[@acrumblingworld7756]

@@justinwilliams2000 I know off-hand, the Soviets only had one Heavy Bomber squadron at war start with Pe-8s and they just broke down more than actually got shot down. I believe the Soviets just gave up on heavy bombers until war's end after they all broke.

[@jamesvandemark2086]

As a kid I assembled a model kit of the FW 200 and was immensely pleased with it! Very sleek & elegant by my 11 year old standards!

[@peregrinemccauley5010]

Great looking aircraft . Top documentary .

[@edwardvincentbriones5062]

The U-28A Draco is a Swiss single engine aircraft. It is used for intelligence, reconnaisance, and surveillance today. I think this concept was indirectly borrowed from the Fw 200.

[@Gronicle1]

Good video....much thanks. Might be interesting to see how this stacks up against B24s and others used by Allies in the Atlantic.

[@atatexan]

Outstanding, Chris

[@thebigone6071]

I’m thankful for your videos Chris!!! You da bomb diggity dayum of military aviation historians!!!! The best!!!!

[@NickRatnieks]

When I was a kid nearly 60 years ago, I bought William Green's book which covered the Condor. In it there was nice photo of a Condor with its wings falling off- a broken main spar. About the same time I bought that Revell model which I was very proud of completing. Eric Brown in his autobiography who was flying from HMS Audacity mentioned in this analysis shot down the Condor although he uses the other name of Kurier.

[@ronjon7942]

Greg from Airplanes and Automobiles referenced your channel, Chris, and recommended it, and I’m glad he did. I appreciate your research dilligence, your prolific work and your humor, and trust you’re an authoritative and authentic resource. I really enjoy your work.

[@johnfrench1239]

Superb as ever and hugely appreciated - thank you

[@1ProfessorXavier]

Off topic, but your English is excellent; I had to slow playback to .75, (you talk fast) but your English is far better than many others. I'm nearing 70, this old man appreciates your efforts. As to the FW 200 capabilities, inherent issues due to its civilian design ought to have been addressed from the get-go. In my opinion, as a recon aircraft, the original design would have sufficed, its mere presence dividing convoy escorts efforts between the aerial threat, and the U-boats. It is a matter of record, that Goering's attitude obstructed proper cooperation between the kriegsmarine and the few FW's available. At sixteen, I'd built a model of this aircraft; a Revell 1/72 kit molded in light blue (ecch) plastic. There was NO mention of hard points being put on the outboard engine nacelles for bombs; and was a huge surprise to me when observed in your video. The FW200 C-1 [First military production version according to Wikipedia] offered no date; however, I feel that a far more aggressive design correction for military purposes, would have solved the deficiencies of its design as an airliner. Information I gathered on the web, seemed to be a chronic weakness just aft of the wings.

[@johanrunfeldt7174]

Why didn't the Germans use the Heinkel He115 more? It had almost the range of the Fw200 (3300km vs 3500km according to my copy of Blandford Colour series Bombers 1939-45) and was a purpose built torpedo floatplane. The Heinkel was available before the war, so available they were offered fore export (Royal Swedish Airforce had 10 and the Royal Norwegian Airforce had six, both countries before the war started). Finland also purchased He115, and used them not just in naval warfare, but also for dropping and retrieving forward patrols on Russian lakes in the Continuation War.

[@rand0mn0]

By the way, Chris is getting funnier and funnier with his off-hand comments. Much appreciated.

[@moistmike4150]

I've always wondered why the FW 200 wasn't more effective at convoy interdiction. To my eye, it appeared to be an beautiful design and quite advanced for it's time (at least, it looked as much). Amazingly well-researched presentation!! Danke sehr MAV!!!

[@deaks25]

Definitely learned a lot from the video. I’m curious: was the FW-200 ever fitted to carry torpedoes? The FW-200 kind of sums up one of my theories about why the Luftwaffe lost against the RAF (after sheer industrial capacity): while the German’s had to make do throughout with a converted airliner and bombers retrofitted for maritime roles, the RAF ended up with aircraft designed for maritime roles like Sunderland’s, Catalina’s, Beaufighter’s and the purpose-built aircraft on the Escort Carriers.

[@Eo_Tunun]

Here you forget that the He 111 and Do 17, despite being introduced to the public as civil designs, were bombers that got a camouflage as being harmless civil planes from the start. There were no civil versions of the Ju 88, He177 or you name them. What with sheer industrial capacity, the Nazis were in a better position either. In the war in the Atlantic, an unarmed branch must not be forgotten: Alan Turing and Bletchley Park! The Nazis didn't know their messages were read for a very long time. When waging the capacities of the Reichsluftwaffe against those of the Royal Air Force, you find that the Luftwaffe choked all initiatives by designers to make new designs. The Oberkommando ordered and bought what they thought was needed, Heinkel's He 100 was refused, the He 112 which could have been a fighter to equip the German carrier Graf Zeppelin was refused while the Me 109 simply was useless as carrier type etc. In Britain on the other hand, Bristol Blenheim, Supermarine Spitfire, De Havilland Mosquito and Avro Lancaster were planes that were either designed or designed and developed to early production level entirely on the initiative of their engineers, and they prove to be key in the success. My personal opinion is that Ernst Messerschmitt at best was a mediocre engineer who focussed way too much on numbers and too little on matters as flyight characteristcs and qualities like reliability of his designs. This put extra stress on the pilots and demanded extra skill from them in order not to die from take-off or landing accidents or going straight into the ground as some crudely automated system decided to do its own thing in critical situations. The high numbers of accidents with 109s as compared to the Spitfire for example tell a story. Of the 3500 109 E version built alone, some 800 were lost due to accidents. That is the same number as with all versions of the Spitfire and Seafire built combined, and includes accident prone fields of operation as aircraft carrier operation, which the 109 never saw! Still Messerschmitt delivered the majority of fighters for the Luftwaffe. I think he contributed much the the RAF's success.

[@klobiforpresident2254]

One of the primary reasons for the 109's instability during takeoff and landing was the landing gear's short width which was a consequence of the requirement for rail transport.

[@danskeroonie6303]

I believe it never carried torpedoes despite the obvious gondola. I think the gondola carried either 16 x 50kg bombs or the 900L drop tank. As Chris points out in the video, the Luftwaffe’s view of anti-ship bombing was negative and resources may not have been allocated to seriously assess its viability.

[@HauntedXXXPancake]

Considering the failure-rate of the German torpedoes, not having that option might have increased their sinking-numbers 😄

[@Eo_Tunun]

@@klobiforpresident2254 That is true. Another reason was the way too small vertical tail and rudder which were not able to compensate for the corkscrew-effect, then there was the great angle of attack on the ground which made the "Automatic" slats necessary, which never operated synchronously, often putting the plane out of balance on take off and landing. Add to that the flimsy hydraulics of the landing gear which tended to fail (An issue that keeps haunting the few 109s that were restored to flying condition after the war.) …not a brilliant design.

[@chriswerb7482]

I am not sure about some of the points Drach makes. 1. The old Mk 1 Hurricanes were pretty much surplus to requirements. 2. Bailing out over the Atlantic was dangerous, but the vast majority of (all?) CAM pilots were picked up. 3. The amount a CAM fighter detracted from cargo carried can't have been significant. MaCs carried cargo in addition to.their complement of aircraft. 4. Later fighters carried (Martlet/Wildcat) could and did attack subs with 0.50 cal.and bombs. Just forcing u-boats to submerge so.they were much slower would really have helped as would queuing surface escorts and Avengers etc. Onto targets. 5. Aircraft also had a role in detecting and engaging surface raiders. 6. Escort carriers and their air groups also served on other roles such as supporting amphibious landings. 7. Had the Germans not deployed an MPA, thd Allies would still have had to assume they would, therefore non-existent Fw-200s would have still resulted in AA being fitted to merchant ships. 8. The top weight of a few 20mm AA guns was very limited and presumably had been designed in in ships of wartime design and construction.

[@martentrudeau6948]

I think this is an amazing plane. It was "in 1936 a Kurt Tank designed the Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Condor to a Deutsche Luft Hansa specification for air transport. The first flight, with Tank as pilot, occurred in July 1937, less than a year after work had begun. The Condor made a famous non-stop flight from Berlin to New York City in 1938,[9] proving the concept of transatlantic air travel.[2] The Condor would later be used as a maritime patrol bomber aircraft of some repute during the war." Wikipedia. It was a useful design first for civilian use and then adapted for military use. --- I always thought the Condor was cutting edge design in it's day, great video and Drachinifel video was a super good supplement video too!

[@archelonprime]

Thank you for this detailed and nuanced view of the "Fw 200 Condor." I can't help but notice how this is more proof of the long term detrimental impact of the LACK of cooperation/coordination between the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine! If only certain people in positions of power didn't insist on the Luftwaffe exclusively having combat aircraft...

[@Belfreyite]

This could have been in some respects a personal rift between Eric Raeder and Herman Goring. Goring's ego often outsmarted his brain, while both Raeder and more so Donitz, were far superior warriors.

[@archelonprime]

@@Belfreyite And unlike Göring, Raeder and Dönitz faced justice at the Nuremberg Trials instead of committing suicide.

[@andreinarangel6227]

Your best video to date. Well done.

[@mrmeowmeow710]

Outstanding video

[@mattwilliams3456]

That ad setup was so good I felt obligated to let both play fully. Bravo.

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Why thank you

[@robertleung9490]

Chris My first time watching! Excellent presentation! Detailed, informative and entertaining! Thank you time, energy and hard work! What prompted and fuels your interest in WWII and its weaponry?

[@ihategooglealot3741]

Your understanding of the difference between modern and historic communications is so refreshing compared to some youtubers and most TV documentary makers

[@davegoodridge8352]

I would like to see a video on the fight in the air for the Bay of Biscay. Thanks great video

[@thegreatchewwyexpress8044]

Awesome job Bis, I believe you've been around Bo a bit long considering your use of the term '"Dakka Dakka". Keep up the great work and wonderful vids.

[@jds6206]

The BMW mechanic in Fredericksburg Virginia who serviced my car for decades is an Iranian immigrant; been here in the states probably 40 years. He speaks technical German, having graduated from BMW's schools, and he speaks technical English. He is the gold-standard of mechanics.

[@laugenbrezel_]

And right there (9:40) I got a fabulous Add. Thanks KZbin.

[@GorduzBackstabber]

me too 😆

[@ericarmstrong6540]

Great video about a plane that needs more attention paid to its role in the battle of the Atlantic. Most interesting stat: The large number of non-operational losses this aircraft suffered, over 50%, IIRC.

[@installwebercarburetorsona6159]

lnteresting presentation thanks

[@glennedgar5057]

I recently listened to a video on the first air squadron in australia around february 42. the two leaders of the squadron had flown p40s against me109 in north africa. they taught the australians to fight the japanese fighters much like the flying tigers. the question what was the results of early british and german fighter combat in early north africa?

[@russeljohn3471]

Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. 😊👍

[@curtisweaver3682]

Great vid. Interesting to learn about more inter-sevice rivalry decreasing combat effectiveness. And what were a British catapult launched Hurricane pilots chance of survival. Chris...I am dreaming of "In the Cockpit" with a 200. Again...great vid.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

Fairly good. Only one pilot from a Cam Ship Hurricane was lost in action. FO JB Kendal, of SS Empire Morn, on 26 April, 1942, after shooting down a Ju88 and driving off a Blohm & Voss 138. He died from injuries sustained when baling out of his aircraft. There weren't many actual launches, only nine in total, resulting in four Condors, four He111s, and one Ju88 being shot down, and one aircraft damaged. One Hurricane, again launched from Empire Morn, in support of PQ18, landed safely in Russia. The Royal Navy also had five similar vessels, known as 'Fighter Catapult Ships' equipped with either a Hurricane or a Fulmar. The Hurricane flown by Lt R. Everett, RNVR, shot down a Condor on 3 August, 1941.

[@curtisweaver3682]

@@dovetonsturdee7033 Thanks for info. Even though few launches, it appears they would be successful.

[@scottjuhnke6825]

As always great stuff! I do have a question regarding the Luftwaffe and the, to my thinking, absurd number of aircraft types. With a view to economy, manufacturing, and resources, the number of different plane models seems that it would have been obvious Germany didn't have the capacity for. Is my perception wrong here?