G. A. Cohen - Against Capitalism - Part 2

[@Berzerk-cr2cy]

Brilliant. So simple yet so compelling.

[@edisonyi1188]

His comments on education are so astute. It is popular to criticize education for not 'preparing people for jobs', as if the only purpose education can possibly serve is to become good workers for the capitalists, to become a better tool for profit.

[@Letranger]

You should read one of his later books (it's very short), "Why Not Socialism?".

[@WouldbeSage]

5:28 "The same system that overworks people (in the interest of profit) also deprives them enitrely of work when it's not profitable to employ them." That says it all.

[@jamesmorton7881]

I have been a closet Marxist, “The history of income distribution has always been political.” If you are labor ( have to work ) you are screwed debt, mortgage, car, credit card, no stocks, no wealth, hey the very definition of labor by the sweat of thy brow thou shalt labor ….. INHERIT ? ROB A BANK TRUMP DID OK ? INVENT ? LIVE VERY SIMPLY ? TRUMP lost, now what, stocks at all time high 10 s of millions are jobless, unemployment will run out COVID-19 rising, 240,000 dead interest rates at zero velocity of money really low, no jobs, no spending, no loans, ah save money Zombie companys M2 exploding Huge defense spending Huge National DEBT it shall be worst than the 1930s, unbelievable really, no job no house payment, homeless the lenders default that travels backward and outward, ((hey the economy)) no job is a cascading event, like an ATOM BOMB, more and more neutrons an avalanche. my spending is your income, please stay on the treadmill

[@Eliu5564]

This, this is brill. Our vociferous consumerism will never be abated, maybe until our human capital or earthly resources are exhausted.

[@85percentnation]

Excellent lecture. Verbalised a lot of ideas I had already in a simple, compelling manner.

[@MrPhilosopher1950]

Excellent points. The second part is definitely more compelling than the first.

[@suefew]

Shame he's no longer with us! We need him and his mind now...

[@expressexpose]

Even if it was part of "human nature". If there's a shred of possibility of eliminating this from your behavior, instead of feeding off it and nurturing it like capitalism does, then that's a possibility worth exploring. Whether capitalism only triggers and exploits a set of inherent urges or creates them from scratch is less important when the result is still disastrous.

[@xXWorldgamefunXx]

I love this

[@IIllytch321nonadinfinitum]

Sausage comment for the win. I'm refreshed by different ideas about economic theories, and will continue researching on the subject, as to fill myself with information that will hopefully get me to spread the word about said theory and to get more people to become aware that there are different ways to go about things than what tradition tells us. To be scared of change is stagnating, but surely the change would have to be gradual, so patience is probably necessary, as well.

[@baillar100]

Still much to learn from Jerry Cohen.

[@theseanze]

6:17 "They can barely afford to buy sausages to feed their children" Guy is hilarious, though I agree with his whole talk. Satisfyingly articulate on an argument that puts marbles in most people's mouths.

[@WouldbeSage]

@somor98 No! He's supposed to work on his hobbies or maybe do some volunteer work, all the while not worrying about where his next meal is coming from or whether the bank will repo his house.

[@StonefieldJim4]

An interesting argument. You've obviously given it a lot of thought.

[@milesdavis3409]

thank you for sharing this video, comrade. it's completely applicable to america as well and i wish he addressed that, but overall, great lecture.

[@adriansrfr]

Education is not limited to labor. Education is limited to people's desires and their means to pay for it. If people only demand education that is geared towards labor, then that is the only education that will be offered profitably. However, many find that there is more to life than just labor and are willing to pay for it. In the current system, courses are "offered" that have not nearly the demand to support itself, and would not exist apart from coercive land tax subsidies.

[@jemandoondame2581]

The market promotes education in favour of profit and not for the sake of education itself. It is not about what education gets limited to in the sense you are talking about.

[@KoroTrizuma]

And I as well: is it "human nature" that makes people want more? Or is it the capability of humans to devise language games in order to avert actually confronting distressing concepts - like cultural change due to the new circumstances created by political/technological development that place newer generations in different contexts - that allows us to construct such semiotic fictions like "human nature"? We can dance this dance forever. Because no one brought up this "human nature" you speak of.

[@Oneiricist]

@adriansrfr Education is limited to people's desires, then. But where do those desires come from? And how much should means to pay for education determine access? The problem is that education is a huge determinant in equality of opportunity, as well as a shaping force in society. Education itself is a creator of demand (e.g. for certain types of education) insofar as it's a process of transmitting values.

[@bryansnaylor]

We work ourselves to death to achieve what society tells us is success. We must break free from this system of materalism.

[@VixenishEmu893]

Communism

[@jackietate4047]

That quote about education is infuriating.

[@afaultytoaster]

do you have any formal training in sociology or psychology

[@ondeia]

Question is, if somebody in the capitalism doesn´t have more rights than others, because he could create these rules of law. Or if he is automatically is in the better position to earn money because he can use additional assets I do not have. Then sheer inequality of wealth undermine my ability to play within the rules and have influence on inability to comment the rules. Is not this way to totalitarianism too?

[@themaninthebox73]

I pose a question: Is it capitalist society that makes people "want" more? Or is it human nature?

[@agapeiron]

@Letranger Ah, another "in Russia" comment/reference.

[@Oneiricist]

@adriansrfr "Social engineering" seems like just an alarmist way of saying "policy" or "law" (since it's all social at some level.) Or is there a more rigorous sense that you're using that term? I watched the video,but I think the analogies are a stretch. Segregation is highly problematic for maintaining stability in a pluralistic society. Equality of opportunity in education is important even where meritocratic capitalism is concerned, let alone socialism.

[@nactan]

@somor98 he SAID poor people's houses need bricking

[@cduck88]

6:00 spot on Cohen.

[@adriansrfr]

Unemployment is caused by either minimum wage laws or the fact that too few people demand a particular good or service. The alternative is to pay people for services of which no one wants or needs, which is slavery for who is going to be made to pay for it?

[@jemandoondame2581]

Ever heard of the industrial revolution? Technological development also plays a role. Or for example changing your job makes people temporarily unemployed etc. Just read Adam Smith.

[@MrDoremouse]

Greed is infinite.

[@bonobonober]

Wow

[@adriansrfr]

@Oneiricist, equality of opportunity many times is used for social engineering. KZbin Walter Williams liberty and discrimination.

[@emmashouse]

Brilliant. But it raises the larger question, should sausages be the only thing we feed our children?

[@--__.--]

Yes.

[@Eliu5564]

Yeah, I forgot that the Chinese and Indian factory workers in their respective capitalist countries have the same rights and privelages as you and I.

[@mystech2125]

@emmashouse Sausages are all a growing child really needs.

[@Hirfel]

fuck I want sausages now

[@distopiadnb]

wait, marginal utility works for a given basket of goods.

[@afaultytoaster]

look up the law of diminishing marginal utility and answer that yourself

[@Jorjun]

Everybody with an objection to capitalist coercion, volunteering to reduce their labour time must use this 'liberated time' to supplement their own shelter, safety, education, entertainment, inebriant & nutrition, since they may not have enough to purchase all of life's essentials in required quantity. For many, submission to capital power is preferable since money is such a convenient way to enlist the cooperation of strangers in providing essentials. Is time spent in amateur, localised activity really more valuable than providing & distributing professional goods & services to other demand-supplicants? The answer really depends on your specific attitude to external direction of your time, your ability to keep safe & entertained & skill at making your own beer.

[@Eliu5564]

It's amusing. Here in America, where "democracy" is heralded as the greatest thing since transportable music, we still don't overwhelmingly incorporate democracy into our workplaces. No, we leave that to the Board of Directors or any another undemocratically selected conglomerate. Hey, at least we get to elect a whole score of inept, crony buffoons to office.

[@beatsNstrings]

many of this mans critiques are critiques of government, not free trade in my opinion. people with a monopoly on education purposely under-educating the populace to 'know their place' is absolutely not a criticism of capitalism. it suggests that concepts of the free market need to be extended to education of the young, so they can shop for a school that meets their needs and interests..

[@beatsNstrings]

if a school was not sufficiently teaching a child the parent could pull them out. there would be many schools with no particular allegiance to some seedy company. the burden of proof would be on the school to show parents that their curriculum was getting their graduates into desirable jobs and those schools would flourish.

[@somor98]

Jerry was a bit silly in his young days huh! So is the bricklayer supposed to work even though no one needs his services?!

[@williamkyburz]

it seems that some of Jerry's criticism towards Capitalism applies to any system. The terms "Capitalist", "Socialist", "Marxist" are all interchangeable.

[@jamesmorton7881]

YES, they ALL have turned to CAPITALISM for economic growth. LOL GREED must be universal. “The history of income distribution has always been political.” If you are labor ( have to work ) you are screwed debt, mortgage, car, credit card, no stocks, no wealth, hey the very definition of labor by the sweat of thy brow thou shalt labor ….. INHERIT ROB A BANK TRUMP DID OK INVENT LIVE VERY SIMPLY TRUMP lost, now what, stocks at all time high 10 s of millions are jobless, unemployment will run out COVID-19 rising, 240,000 dead interest rates at zero velocity of money really low, no jobs, no spending, no loans, ah save money Zombie companys Huge defense spending Huge National DEBT it shall be worst than the 1930s, unbelievable really, no job no house payment, homeless the lenders default that travels backward and outward, ((hey the economy)) no job is a cascading event, like an ATOM BOMB, more and more neutrons an avalanche.

[@Synerco]

@@jamesmorton7881 Wow! You sure were having a normal one!

[@Synerco]

Could you provide some examples?

[@beatsNstrings]

you got me! i dont go to college so therefore my point is invalid. look if individuals are too dumb to wisely select, then logically its even more of a stretch that they can wisely elect...

[@adriansrfr]

According to marginal utility, the more cars that are produced the less of value they will be worth. How does can a company make a profit without serving people's wants and needs? If a company does not serve people, it will go out of business. A better analogy would be the government, which takes money whether or not it serves people's wants and needs.

[@jemandoondame2581]

Marginal urility says also that it will produce to the extent to make as much profit as possible. Obviously the demand plays also a regulating factor in that. Just look up 'Break even point'. So what he says does still apply. Read about the tools you criticise others with before criticising them with them.

[@foxlightman5114]

8:00

[@adriansrfr]

It would be better if he distinguished between krony capitalism/corporatism and laissez-faire capitalism. If you don't know the difference between the two, then it is highly unlikely that you know what you are talking about.

[@Zulligula]

Is this not ironic that we are watching this on youtube?

[@shanewagoner6505]

How?

[@sunwiitch]

are you one of those kinds of people who flips shit when they see a poor person with a flat screen TV

[@beatsNstrings]

silly advertisements dont fool the well educated. the fear of 'capitalists' advertising everybody into oblivion is a stretch. especially if youre advocating a state, which monopolized education is a far stronger source of misguidance. we were incarcerated in classes we (mostly) hated for our entire youth

[@ManyDog]

Goofy asf

[@frankphelps9281]

Life is about choices, including what to consume. I buy products because I want, need or simply desire to have them not because I am forced to or brain washed by a corporation. And this guy assumes that people are unemployed because corporations have put them out of work....many people do not want to be employed and choose to live off the welfare system. Many factors are not considered in this man's conclusion. Capitalism has created far more happiness than Socialism every will...

[@jamesmorton7881]

wrong Pendejo, more people than jobs, nothing for you The most memorable pages in Das Kapital are the descriptive passages, culled from Parliamentary Blue Books, on the misery of the English working class. Marx believed that this misery would increase, while at the same time the monopoly of capital would become a fetter upon production until finally “the knell of capitalist private property sounds. The expropriators are expropriated.” hint hint, two class system, neoliberal (capitalist) KILLED the middle class rich / poor Employer / employee Bourgeois / labor Lord / serf Master / slave In Marxist philosophy, the bourgeoisie is the social class that came to own the means of production during modern industrialization and whose societal concerns are the value of property and the preservation of capital to ensure the perpetuation of their economic supremacy in society. CAPITALISM IS UN- DEMOCRATIC AND IT IS BROKEN as in: you are labor, sorry ARE YOU THE EMPLOYER OR THE EMPLOYEE ARE YOU THE BOURGEOISIE OR LABOR ARE YOU THE LORD OR A SERF ARE YOU THE MASTER OR A SLAVE Can you quit your job ? retire ? No, then you are labor, make that a slave. LOL when can you retire ? $10B AT 3.65% = $1M PER DAY $365M PER YEAR $1B AT 3.65% = $100K PER DAY $36.5M PER YEAR $100M AT 3.65% = $10K PER DAY $3.65M PER YEAR $10M AT 3.65% = $1K PER DAY $365K PER YEAR $1M AT 3.65% = $100 PER DAY $36.5K PER YEAR $100K AT 3.65% = $10 PER DAY $3.65K PER YEAR What is wrong ? well punk, are you a slave ? That's right the Capital brings the relationship of power, class division if you understand it as so. Capital is not only that described by prof. Wolff but also political power that is needed to maintain it, the superstructure. So for example, in 2008 the Gov. could have instead of giving the billions bailout "almost free money" to the financial system, actually financed(bought) part of the debt of the people who bought the houses or whatever. Even if the price was too high, the effect would be exactly the same(maybe better for the bubble) for the economy except that the power would go to save the people and no the rich capitalists who made a lot on the financial system. The money would come exactly from the same place, but without people have lose their homes, etc. Unfortunately, that relative power. Capital is power,as much any previous class system we had. The only difference is that the previous systems used a form of violent dominance over the lower class, while Capitalists uses their Capital and power to create their ideology, including that fake story that says everyone can be rich is just a matter of hard working or good entrepreneurship. got your rice and beans ? 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@frankphelps9281]

@@jamesmorton7881 Wrong, Dumbass.... A lot of words wasted. Corruption within a capitalistic society does not make Capitalism bad, it makes corruption bad, and it would be bad in any system. The US system of a Constitutional Republic coupled with a capitalist economic system works very well, that is to the satisfaction of its people, when it is not infused with corruption or with liberal shackles. On the other hand Socialism has never worked to the satisfaction of it's people.

[@Synerco]

You ever hear of Coconut Island?

[@GrievousCommander]

It's your mom's fault.

[@LibertarianSeeker]

This is so weak. He is just talking about what he perceives to be wrong with capitalism without proposing any alternatives. Sure, capitalism is not perfect, but it is better than any other economic system, and certainly superior to socialism and capitalism.