G.K. Chesterton, Poetry, & Joyful Catholicism w/ Joseph Pearce

[@SedContraApologia]

The peak of the irony of the post Vatican II Church is that you have 70-80 year old prelates telling 20-30 year old faithful that they must catch up with the times.

[@AWSKAR]

Well put.

[@infolibertad_1]

Correct

Dear Matt, I'm a former atheist, with a PhD degree in evolutionary biology from Oxford. I reverted to Catholicism 3 years ago, and my whole life went upside down. One of my most important influences that brought me closer to my childhood faith were Aristotle and St. Thomas. Long story short, I spent years studying Thomism and evaluating whether the theory of evolution was metaphysically sound, and compatible with Catholic doctrine. I spoke with multiple Thomists, historians, and priests. I also went back to the biological evidence which I had taken for granted. Slowly, but surely, God opened my eyes and I realized I had been lied to. Organisms do indeed adapt to their environment, but they do it through intrinsic causes (not by mutation + natural selection), and they never break the barrier of the species. Organisms were created with potentiality to change, but only their accidents (phenotypic plasticity). It is this plasticity that leads to adaptation, not chance and necessity as evolution would like us to believe. I also realized mutations are always intrinsically destructive, and only circumstantially (per accidens) beneficial. The fossil record is entirely discontinuous, and gives support to special creation, rather than evolutionary gradualism. People hear about the Cambrian explosion, but they are not told about the Angiosperms, bats, pterosaurs, all the orders of mammals, etc. All of these appear abruptly in the fossil record, with no ancestors. Natural selection, which is called by many evolutionists as a "force" or "cause" or even "creative force" is nothing more than the cumulative effect of difference causes. It can never be used to explain adaptation, since it presupposes adaptation. The concept of homology is also circular, and phylogenetic trees assume the truth of evolution from the start. The theory of evolution is no theory at all, as it cannot be tested, not replicated. It is a materialistic philosophy, with has its origin in Empedocles, Epicurus and Lucretius. It is not compatible with Catholicism, and has been refuted by Aristotle and Aquinas. And yet, how many priests, philosophers and theologians claim that evolution is compatible with Catholicism? How many claim that Thomism is open to evolution? Nothing could be further from the truth. I've spoken with many young people who have left Catholicism because of evolution, and many others (including priests and philosophers) who have embraced heresy in order to accommodate this gnostic fairy tale into our Faith. For example, how many theologians are now claiming that Adam was just the chief of a big population of humans? That Genesis is not history? That Eve was not created from the side of Adam? I was wondering if you would like to have a chat about this topic. I'm happy to discuss beforehand, and privately, before we decide on what we should include in the podcast. I'm looking forward to your reply. Best wishes, Romulus

[@claremargarettherese]

This is a really interesting comment and would probably make a fascinating conversation. I very much doubt that Matt Fradd will see your message here however and I hope you try to find another, more direct way, of reaching him. Good luck!

[@dimsumfoods]

The Church and the world need to hear your insights on evolution. Even if Fradd misses this note from you, please consider recording a video or writing an article about this, and then share it with us! May our Lord and Lady bless you and your work.

[@gabriela6584]

You should email him, he doesn't check comments. Maybe someone in his team, but I'd try to email anyway. Sounds like a conversation worth having!

@@gabriela6584 where can I find his email?

[@JCBasco1003]

Although not much, but you've earned one subscription on your channel. Thank you for your effort!

[@NaruIchiLuffy]

Absolutely beautiful conversation. Thank you! "If hating the devil is your motivation, but not the love of Christ; you are on the wrong side."

[@aleksandrablaszczyk5971]

This was so deep and rich. Joseph Pearce is a GREAT mind!!!!

[@Sydroo1969]

I am just now seeing this. Quite provocative conversation. Enjoyed it immensely. I too am a convert and that was the best decision I ever made. I love going to mass and adoration. Wish I would have converted sooner than 24 years ago when I was 30.

[@sandraelder1101]

Best 24 years of my life and counting! 2000 convert

[@pamelavanover2722]

So much spiritual common sense. Wish we all had that. Definitely somethings to think about. Charity above any cause.

[@jonathanpage961]

Delightful conversation; so much wisdom. Very thankful

[@mommyseastar5776]

Because of Joseph Pierce I support my local family-owned bookstore instead of Amazon. Now they’re exhibiting my art and we’re partnering to help the bookstore, my family and the community. Thank you Joseph! And thank you Pints With Aquinas for having Joseph on! I just subscribed 👍

[@melissasaint3283]

Distributism?

[@masterchief8179]

This one was precious, Matt, thanks so much! I loved Joseph Pearce mostly for his simplicity and his brilliance. What a guest! I just want to share that G.K. Chesterton was heavily influential in my personal path to conversion (not really converting “to” the Catholic Church - a place where I already was -, I’m talking about the everyday conversion that the word “metanoia” can mean, the everyday coming to meet the Lord in His, not our terms). Chesterton in my humble opinion is one of the wisest minds I’ve seen in literature and a bastion for the Catholic faith in the Anglophone world. Let me just give one of my favorite of Chesterton’s quips: _”It is impossible to be just to the Catholic Church. The moment men cease to pull against it, they feel a tug toward it. The moment they cease to shout it down, they begin to listen to it with pleasure. The moment they try to be fair to it, they begin to be fond of it"._ (Chesterton, Why I am a Catholic). God bless!

[@Thomas-dw1nb]

I agree with this quote. My wife and I are currently in RCIA. A big part of my becoming fond of the Church was Chesterton. Admittedly, though, I often struggle with the "scandals" of the day, such as issues in the clergy and the direction the current leadership is taking the Church. I've spent roughly ten years listening, watching, and reading my way into the Church, only to have a growing sense that the current leadership is jettisoning the traditions, history and steadfastness I came to be fond of.

[@masterchief8179]

@@Thomas-dw1nb I deeply understand you, brother. But I really don’t feel attracted to how “tabloid scandals” are dealt with on the Internet. If I have a chance to really (and I mean really) see a thing that can scandalize parishioners, I’d use my canonical rights as laity and I would talk to the priest who caused or permitted it as charitably as I could; if it didn’t fix, I’d talk to bishop and archbishop until the matter is settled. If it didn’t go as I expected, I’d give all my frustrations to God and would unite me with Christ’s suffering in the cross, so that His will and not mine prevails, not only in this particular time, but always and forever. I would not go to the Internet with a sort of histrionic pattern even if I felt the need to make a case, which can be noble and good sometimes. The point is: Internet gives me the impression that things are ridiculously worse then they are; as in a soundbox, it is a machinery that makes good feel great and bad feel terrible, leading to pride and aggression in one case or fear and aggression on the other. It is the contrary of reality. And due to the politicization of society and the cultural enmity we live in, it is our faith that is dragged down to this pattern but not society that is pushed up to the highest standards of Catholic faith and morals. Oh, and it applies to all ideological spectrum: conservatives and leftists. All acting like spoiled kids, specially on the Anglophone Internet. I’m a sinner who tries to live my Catholic life praying and reading and trying the best I can to achieve the highest Christian virtues. And many times I fail and sometimes even miserably. I’m all in for the criticism of our bad (in some cases terrible) leadership, but as St Teresa of Avila taught us, obedience is the core virtue behind humility just as rebellion is the core vice behind pride. It is easy to be not rebellious when things go well; God tests us to be not rebellious when things go bad so that we may know our belly buttons are not the center of the universe. And we are definitely living a time when bad leaders are simply too evident to miss. So in a sense, I can be optimistic to understand they won’t be disguised. So much worse it would be if we didn’t have even the chance to know bad leadership exists - not so much to fix it ourselves but to recognize God, who is the builder, is the one who has always fixed it throughout history. Providence is and always will be sided with the Catholic Church even if we fail to see it. But apart from some propaganda, never once in ecclesiastical history a sensation of true glory surpassed that of confusion. Unrealism is what moves the wishes of father of lies and it becomes a preoccupation for me. The problem is that when we point fingers too much on the hierarchy who simply can’t disguise anymore, in general we ourselves may disguise as good Christians in appearance. When people started to advocate for glory surpassing confusion, then the schisms happened. Well, the leaders of nowadays were priests during the the crazy 1960-1970. In my country, those years were the years of a right-wing military dictatorship, so we see the bishops in their “strangeness”. Pope Francis himself was a priest during the sanguinary military dictatorship in Argentina during the 70s. But younger priests - who understand that we need to calibrate the missionary soul of the Church with the piety and reverence of the liturgy - are going to take those places. Bad leaders won’t be eternal; besides, any bad hierarchy - Jesus himself is the only source of holiness - would still be as sinful as ourselves. Let us not pretend we are much better only because Internet is the perfect place for new Pharisees like us to speak out loud - while we cannot be truly generous with the poor and the miserable because we feel too “insecure” to approach homeless people and anything alike. I can sympathize with that because I feel it too sometimes. I’m only saying: look at how ridiculously spoiled we can be, brother, when being “scandalized” with Church confusion yet not making the slightest bit to fix it according to our possibilities, while the Catholic Church is truly everywhere in this crazy world trying to make God speak. Still I’d ask: how many “clown masses” have you actually attended or known through parish life (not Internet)? In my case, zero. It sure happened and maybe happens more than we would like, but in general bad music and bad homilies are the complaints. Have we even cared to talk to the priest and to contact people with musical skills to offer them training, maybe some financial support, in order to receive greater liturgies? So as Jordan Peterson says, we need to make our beds before we claim to transform the world: we definitely need to be better Catholics to live in a better church, my friend. Protestants who convert are too much of a blessing; you are God’s way to make the Church feel on fire for Christ again and also - humorously - to make us ashamed of being so far from the marvelous saints we have produced. Truth is here and you’ll be great with Truth, my friend. Well, I’ve spoken enough I guess. I wish you and your family all the best. Great RCIA! May God bless your journeys!

[@eldermillennial8330]

@@masterchief8179 It’s so ODD for me. The more completely I sought out to be Catholic AND dug DEEP into the vexing contradictions that have caused all the clown masses and terrible effects of Bugnini and his cronies and the horrible liberation theology ravaging the Spanish/Portuguese diaspora, the more I did all that while holding all the core convictions of Chesterton and similar Catholic philosophers, and dug DEEP, I arose from the dirt and found myself in the Tiber. I had never swam the Tiber, as I was born in Rome, but now I was in it, and it is FILTHY. The water was full of foul sewage! And as I looked downstream it was clearly getting worse! So I had a choice, to return to the shore of modern Rome, but that was where all the sewage was actually coming from, and the few men like Piece trying to clean the water were, from out here, really getting nowhere, but LEAVE on the wrong side of the river, to LEAVE the church? No, I found I could do neither. So I swam UP the River. Up, up, up. Something odd happened. As I got past the filth, as the water grew cleaner, I didn’t find myself out in the Italian countryside. Instead I found myself passing OLDER versions of Rome, once I swam past one, another even older one appeared, and as I passed that, an older one still, and so on. Eventually the water was crystal clean, and Rome stood in her early medieval splendor, the original Saint Peter’s Basilica built by Constantine still standing, Old Latin Chant humming out from everywhere, glorious and sublime. I knew THIS is my Home, THIS is TRUE ROMAN Catholicism. Now, getting to Pierce’s discussion of the “sapling and the Full Tree”, i found a tree, but it wasn’t the kind he described. He thought of a mighty oak. I instead found a modest sized but HARDY Bristlecone pine. Bristlecone do grow and change, but SLOWLLLLY. It also had a large broken branch, broken nearly off, and half dead and withering, but still connected to the main tree by a tiny thread of bark that had kept it alive for a very long time, but the thread had finally only just dried up, and the still half living branch was surly dying for certain. But the tree itself was very much alive, although it has scars from fires and old ax scars. From the old knot that the branch had broken from, was a new little sprig of healthy fresh green. The Tree IS The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church…. The One Holy ORTHODOX Catholic Church. The broken branch is most of Western Church of Rome. But there is a Growing SPRIG, and that sprig is also the same as the fallen branch in its prime, same as the Clean Rome I found at the most recent Clean part of the Tiber. Western Latin Rite Orthodoxy, Roman Orthodox Catholic. I found myself here FROM being as consistent as I can be so far.

[@allanagravante6593]

which chesterton books should i start? can you give me at least 3 books?

[@peaceandjoy2568]

I love the quotation by Chesterton. I find it is true. Protestants have to push against the Church because if they will truly understand her significance and teachings they will need to become Catholic.

[@margokupelian344]

Yes Matt, this WAS beautiful! I enjoyed every minute of it. And I learned something very important which is, not to be upset or angry when we read or hear somebody talking against the truth or against our church. I have a tendency to flare up and try to defend the truth. I never thought that would be lack of charity. Thank you and may God bless you both.

[@sharondavidson7412]

I wish I'd known Mr. Pearce was talking at FUS tonight. This interview was phenomenal. Thank you for producing such great content, Matt. My soul is being nourished.

[@tracyspenst6039]

This interview was full of encouragement in this war zone we call life on planet Earth. Thanks for the reminder that we are, indeed, the Church Militant. There are so many things said that I want to remember. It will definitely be one I'll watch again.

[@rodisaacs6491]

What an incredible conversation. This was one of the very best pints with Aquinas ever thank you Matt and team and Joseph. Snap I was also received into the church aged 24

[@viktoriaregis6645]

I am a protestant in Swedish and I find this channel so interesting. I am a little bit addicted, although I know I should probably read some books instead.

[@hyweldda56]

Superb, could listen to Joseph all day.

[@Burt1038]

One can't help but admire and marvel at Mr. Pearce's command of the English language. Every word he speaks is a brush stroke on a cherished canvas, a note in a glorious symphony. What a gift!

[@allenlopez9731]

Excellent interview! Joseph Pearce speaks with such faith and wisdom.

[@sheetalsilveira9554]

Wow! What a great show! Such a joy to listen to Joseph Pearce…hope he can come again on PWA…

[@charlenemcgregor7857]

Fellow Canadian here & I love America. I only feel the tension when we play against each other in hockey.

[@kelleya9076]

Great interview!!! I could listen to Joseph Pearce all day.

[@harryw2903]

Superb conversation, Joe is brilliant.

[@drausch2173]

Thank you for this Matt! Amazing interview with a tremendous Catholic thinker! Thank you for your service to the Church, Matt and Joseph.

[@peaceandjoy2568]

What a beautiful and precise articulation of the reason why the beautiful churches in Europe are empty while the ugly buildings for service in America are full. And now that people have rediscovered the truth that Faith IS reasonable and science points to the truth of the Christian Faith many young people are going back to Church and they love the beautiful traditional Churches with their breathtaking architecture, paintings and sculpture. Praise God.

[@viviennedunbar3374]

I remember a convert once saying his beautiful Lutheran or Anglican Church was sparsely attended, while he could go to Mass on a mountain, in an ugly basement or at the edge of a battlefield and Catholics would be there, often in large number, because they would seek out a Catholic Mass no matter how humble because they wanted Jesus.

[@fishosoficaldebaitsphiloso7760]

So excited about this! I run an existential philosophy “tea house” in the middle of the Hiawatha National Forest with the official mission of “creating space for thinking about meaning of life through truth seeking.” We have a Mind Hike Guidebook containing 7 sections- Kierkegaard and G.K. Chesterton feature prominently in the content. Chesterton is phenomenal when it comes to thinking about the meaning of our existence. He has been so very “underutilized”- especially when it comes to young people. Thank you Matt!! Signed, Gertie, resident philosopher of Philosophy in the Forest LLC

[@margarethill2098]

This was the BEST interview I’ve heard in a long time! Thank you so much!

[@simplycj5460]

This was extremely helpful to me!

[@widdershins7628]

What great guests and shows you've been giving us, M. Fradd! I hope your channel continues to grow. God bless you.

[@CMaj1506]

Another exceptional interview. Learning things I’ve never heard about. God bless you Matt and keep them coming!

[@ceuser6119]

Excellent, thanks for making this possible.

[@jimmyjames417]

I have been following Joseph Pearce for years. I am a distributist with one exception - large organizations are not necessarily bad. I refer you all to the Josias, where they state world government is called for by Catholic teaching

[@chrispullman5902]

Righteous anger is the worst! Probably my biggest struggle! Thank you for this podcast-very well done!

[@MegPea391]

This is wonderful

[@eyrebear1199]

This was such a beautiful and uplifting conversation. I wish I could click like multiple times. Thank you for hosting this interview!

[@samanthastudios618]

He's my teacher!

[@thedomesticmonk772]

Fascinating discussion.

[@Mpearator]

Great interview! Chesterton, poetry, joyful Catholicism, Joseph Pearce, and Matt Fradd - what more could anyone ask for!

[@annemariebuck5222]

Always with charity ❤️

[@joshuacooley1417]

When you were talking about Beauty and the empty beautiful churches in Europe vs. the full ugly churches in the USA, there was something I wanted to add. It is an expansion upon what Mr. Pearce was saying that I took from Peter Kreeft. As human beings we are oriented towards the Good, the True, and the Beautiful. Those things are, by nature, One. However, in a fallen world we can have a separation between Truth and Beauty. Our rational soul is oriented to value truth higher than beauty. We are attracted to beauty, but we will never willingly believe something we know to be untrue, even if we are attracted to it. We may sub-consciously look for ways to deceive ourselves, or if we are badly formed, we may do such a thing, but not by our created nature. As such, even if a church is beautiful, if the people believe that the ideas taught in the church are untrue, the church will remain empty. Likewise, even if a church is ugly, the people will go there if they believe that the message taught in that church is true. The problem is that Truth ought to be Beautiful. IF Truth is not beautiful, then either there is something wrong with us, where we are unable to see the beauty, or the truth that is being taught is not fully true, or the WAY it is being taught is not fully true. Speaking as a protestant convert who grew up in ugly churches, the beauty of the architecture is secondary to the beauty of the message. But if the truth being presented is disconnected from beauty, even though you believe the truth, you will begin to starve for beauty. Either you will seek elsewhere, or you will begin to shrivel. Likewise, beauty ought to be true... if it is not, then it is, in some way, an illusion. For example, when I was protestant I recognized something beautiful in the Catholic view of the Saints and I was attracted to it. But I was taught that the Catholic view of the saints was not true, it was a hold-over from ancient paganism in which pagan gods were Christianized as "saints" in order to make worshipping them ok. This didn't stop me from being attracted to the beauty in Catholic practice, but it did prevent me from thinking it was true, and instead I just felt guilty over the fact that I was attracted to it. I could never accept such a practice, until I discovered that my version of it was not true, and that the actual Catholic view and practice was, in fact, true.

[@ptraynor]

“Wren’s lovely empty churches…” Who said that? Peter.

[@catherineoliveri4876]

Than you Matt for this interview with Joseph Pearce! It was really great! I watch him with Dale Ahlquist , Chris Check , Daniel Fahey and Daniel Kerr on The Troubadors part of The G. K. Chesterton Society…. They are all great minds and very knowledgeable!

[@andycastro1014]

Funny, just yesterday, I was looking for an interview with Joseph Pearce to listen to. Thank you! Another person who would be great on your show would be Dr. Dan Sheffler (from Memoria College in Louisville, KY)

[@roseg1333]

I really love this man’s theology and perspective on Lord of the Rings and Catholicism in general. Sometimes he just says things that are so profound my jaw just kind of drops and it’s all part of the Catholic beliefs but I had never put some of these things together like that. Praise be to God for this man’s conversion 😮🥰🕊️🙏🏼❤️…also as a teen in the early 2000’s I really disliked youth mass. I really didn’t like the hippie guitar playing and phoniness of it all. Even back then I had a strong aversion to fakeness especially in the church I just kinda knew in my soul the two didn’t belong together.

[@greypilgrim1649]

Thoroughly enjoyed this, God bless you Joseph!

[@mikemaurer9326]

I listened to this the other day in my car...very thought provoking! Matt, I saw you at the Marriage retreat in Newark last week but didn't get the chance to introduce myself. Our oldest son graduated from the Augustine Institute a couple of years ago and our youngest is a junior at Franciscan...they both enjoy your insights.

[@dennishancock6610]

Loved this. Thanks so much. More like this, please. So worth the time.

[@dalelerette206]

55:45 Your evaluation is so very accurate. I think aspects of social media have the potential to be such a scam in the name of human trust. The capacity for human pain increases so greatly in proportion to the level of trust we give. I was recently inviting fellow Catholics to openly criticize the Church in an effort to bring improvement to the Church from within. And then I had non-Catholics telling me I was 'anti anything that wasn't Catholic' to conform to whatever they were angry at. They were quick to give a scathing criticism for something I didn't say. And then they completely failed to apologize once they realized they were wrong. Various aspects of social media have been so compromised by open chicanery, many people have fallen prey to 2 Timothy 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." The enlightenment doesn't recognize the difference between cleverness and wisdom. People often employ cleverness to make themselves more comfortable but that can be deadly. Without wisdom we are left with a metaphor that society is like a car where the steering wheel is wisdom, the accelerator is progress and the breaks are tradition. But we are living in a world that refuses to use the brakes and got his foot hard down on the accelerator. It doesn't seem to matter how we pray for each other. Some hatred runs so deep. It seems we are heading for a crash. The mind replays what the heart cannot forget because the mind knows what the heart feels. Self-centeredness is NOT "self-care". Promises are only as strong as the actions that follow them. Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary. -Saint Francis of Assisi As far as universal principles are concerned, the natural law cannot in any way be erased entirely from the hearts of men (ST 1-2.94.6). -- St. Thomas Aquinas The devil moves to and fro throughout all society like Twilight Zone episode ”He’s Alive” broadcast on January 23rd, 1963. "Where will he go next, this phantom from another time, this resurrected ghost of a previous nightmare - Chicago? Los Angeles? Miami, Florida? Vincennes, Indiana? Syracuse, New York? Anyplace, everyplace, where there's hate, where there's prejudice, where there's bigotry. He's alive. He's alive so long as these evils exist. Remember that when he comes to your town. Remember it when you hear his voice speaking out through others. Remember it when you hear a name called, a minority attacked, any blind, unreasoning assault on a people or any human being. He's alive because through these things we keep him alive." kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGSsdWqhZcSrpJY

[@mosesking2923]

The section on liturgy was incredible.

[@manwhowouldbeknight520]

58:40... Mind Blown!!!!!!

[@williammerriman4138]

Matt, please have Mr. Pearce back on. I could listen to that cockney accent for hours!

[@nicholassmith3899]

Will definitely be looking into this man, very interesting

[@brendanpeters655]

Chesterton is so, so good!

[@catholicmama1572]

Yessssss!!! I haven’t listened yet, but I can’t wait!!!

[@MrFisherteach]

I agree 100% regarding the Life Teen Mass! I've commented many times that the music is what WE were listening to when we were young...and I'm 60! My children were raised in a high Anglo-Catholic parish, and to this day they are struggling to come into the Catholic church BECAUSE of the banality of most of the Masses they've attended.

[@supajooce]

Thanks!

[@j2muw667]

Beautiful churches- Many are ornate, but not all are beautiful. And after visiting a handful of abandoned European ornate churches- they all feel empty and dead even with the ornateness.. Simple church spaces can be beautiful. It’s all about balance, rhythm, proportions and light. And most importantly- Gods presence. It’s often tangible.

[@PlotlinesCM]

Great episode

[@Tybourne1991]

Thanks for letting Joseph speak freely for a decent amount of time. I think that many of the architects of the European 🇪🇺 Union, like Adenauer, were animated specifically by Catholic social teaching on subsidiarity, solidarity and the Common Good. Matt, you need to do your homework and challenge your guests more to avoid your fine show becoming an echo chamber.

[@amysalas2582]

Absolutely fantastic conversation! I read his book “Race with the Devil” and have admired him since. Thanks for this interview!

[@jimmyjames417]

Matt at 2:08: "he's so smart. What do I say" hehe

[@orangesox915]

Great stuff.

[@mjvictoriano]

WELL usually the great churches in Europe are still an obligated stop for everybody touring around Europe - whatever their beliefs are. I walked the Way of St James in 2013 and upon arriving Santiago de Compostela we went to Mass to the Pilgrim's Mass. At the beginning of the Mass someone reads a sort of census of how many pilgrim's arrived in the last 24 hours and from which countries they are. Since everybody walking there is called a pilgrim and all you have to do to be in the census is to show up to the Pilgrim's Office in town once you're there (so they would extend to you the "Compostela" this certificate that you walked the Way) then a lot of people that clearly are non-Catholic - - maybe even atheist just doing the adventure and the sport Well they go for it all including assisting to the Pilgrim's Mass. This Mass is very grandiose. They play the organ in that ancient Romanic 800 year old stone Cathedral with a large procession of clerics and in the end (in the Summer days) they lift up the "botafumeiro" a giant incense-burner that starts swinging like a pendulum very high with 6 people moving some ropes up and down. You can see the awe in everyone's faces. You have to be already "golomized" as Joseph Pearce puts it to remain indifferent to that. There's definitely been conversions in the Way of St James by visiting the abbeys and monasteries along the Way and by walking those large distances in silence just marveling at the beauty of Nature and God's Creation. Yeah BEAUTY is a good apostolate.

[@kitstr]

Matt's hair today looks like Tin Tin's hair ! (From some angles.) And that's not a bad thing.

[@susiefromomaha]

Excellent. But let us remember Saint Paul, *did* say, "Be angry, ... but sin not." Anger is not a sin. When anger gets out of control then it is a sin and bad and certainly not loving. Speaking the truth in love does not mean, as I understand it then, to *never be angry.* The emotion of anger is not bad, it is neutral, all the emotions are neutral, but are there for a reason, to get us to act. If we are not angry about injustice, (we are not to become like the woke in our anger, as Joseph said,) but we don't firebomb, literally or in conversations, the bad around us. Jesus is the only one who could 'turn the tables over in holy zeal, righteous anger, but to make us think we never can have 'righteous anger' isn't helpful. If Jesus lives in us, and He does, and if we are trying to live a Christian life, as most of us are, with Jesus "in our hearts" then He, working in us, leading us and instructing via the Holy Spiriti, He will permit us to be angry *AND sin not.* Won't He? I do not want to presume upon God's mercy and grace, letting anger get out of control, but if I cannot ever be angry at all, which is what it almost sounds like at times, then that is also wrong. I think we have to take *each situation* as be mindful of how we are expressing our anger. Anger is not wrong. Losing our temper is. But then . . . THANK THE LORD for the Sacrament of Confession, eh? And if we go and do penance and really endeavor to *amend* our lives, and our tempers, we are on the *right path!* We all have our personalities and temperaments to work on and it is called "PRACTICING CATHOLIC" for a reason. An abused spouse, say, should not take a punch and keep taking a punch. No. She needs some righteous anger about the injustice done to her to get her out of a potentially very harmful if not deadly situation. That's all I am saying. God be praised in His Angels and in His Saints...even some who did have a temper.....they did become Saints, and so can we when we humble ourselves and run to the Confessional when we blow it. God is good. catholicexchange.com/the-saints-can-teach-us-how-to-control-our-anger/

[@johndippolito4083]

Dawn Eden Goldstein promotes sunshine pop and bishop Williamson promotes pink Floyd the wall ( comfortably numb )

[@marybeth1747]

I haven't read Chaucer since college (49 yrs ago). I won't listen to certain conservative folks I'd otherwise admire, because they speak without love. They're very bitter.

[@AWSKAR]

Is it an English thing to say An Heroic? Think Chesterton types it that way in Orthodoxy and this gentleman in the podcast also said An Heroic.

[@luisbolmo]

Agreguen subtitulos en español sería genial

[@manwhowouldbeknight520]

From 5:00 on you guys seem to be conflating virtue with struggle. It's an interesting, and common, thought. I tend to do the same myself, but sometimes I think (in good company with Dorothy Sayers and Josef Pieper) that the true form of virtue is when the will rests serenely in the Good (or in this conversation, the real) and does not have anymore a struggle to overcome. To pick a different example, which is the healthier man, the one who really loves twinkies and microwave meals, and forces himself to eat broccoli, or the man whose tongue and stomach are so in keeping with the true good that he actually likes broccoli more than twinkies? Not saying that there is no virtue in struggling to overcome a taste for the bad, turning to the good by violent willpower. Just wondering if our definition of virtue doesn't suffer a bit from making that struggle the defining point of virtue. When virtue is complete, there will be no struggle.

[@bobgriffin2503]

Matt, we just beat the poms in the ashes. Hammered them

[@ellem6050]

Not difficult. We're crap at cricket sadly.

[@marilynmelzian7370]

I agree with Pearce regarding beauty. But I have found in talking even to young Christians that they see beauty also as relative, and therefore as having no value in evangelization.

[@johnritter9947]

There’s nothing more ironic than watching somebody talk about techno minimalism in a KZbin video

[@quinnwindsor8718]

who is the man Matt quotes from @15:00 ?

[@quinnwindsor8718]

@YAJUN YUANthank you! do you know the source of the quote by any chance?

[@juan-patriciahidalgo2812]

Hear, hear for the principle of subsidiarity!

[@mickyfrazer786]

A brit who has left Britian for a Country that looks down even further on social justice should not really comment on Brexit. Especially when Brexit has done nothing but champion the wealthy and reduce further the state of the poorest in society. Also for a country that prides itself on the independence of Church and state, the US doesn't half force radical right wing opinions onto religion.

[@danieljoseph255]

Great interview; great guy-despite his woeful entreaty as regards anger, which he misunderstands as somehow being in conflict with love-a false, modernist contradistinction that has done tremendous damage by way of neutering generations of the faithful into a state of apathy and sloath

[@chaser595]

Need help what is this the heresy they are talking about at the 55 minute mark? Galeism is what i heard?

[@masterchief8179]

Hegelianism. Hegel was a German philosopher. His idea of uncontrollable and unavoidable progress - in his philosophy of history - is the context.

[@bedrosnersesyan6975]

Could you guys talk slower...I'm from Texas.

[@asburyfox]

The beautiful churches in Europe are empty because of the novus ordo mass. You need beautiful liturgy to go with beautiful churches. Liturgy that trascends.

[@RealAugustusAutumn]

What a shock that he was a neo-Nazi. Its a shame that he could not see the correlation between the system that threw him in prison for writing an article and the current financial elites. That ideology is not one of hate, but of love and beauty, and its a shame that he couldn't see that at the time or now....

[@jimisoulman6021]

Oh dear goodness Joseph Pearce has a very narrow perspective on Brexit! 😂

[@bobgriffin2503]

I disagree. I think he has hit the nail on the head. Perhaps my disagreement with you is due to a different political position, but what he said is basically how I saw it. Every time someone tries to return autonomy to people, or stand up for feedings or basic national sovereignty, a very noisy fear campaign suddenly appears against these actions, and it eventually gets to the point where you are second guessing yourself on what you actually think, because the fear campaign is so pervasive. What keeps me sane during such times is spotting all of the irrational arguments and all of the emotional blackmails foisted against us.

[@jimisoulman6021]

@@bobgriffin2503 yes to a degree it seems you have a similar perspective to Mr Pearce. But rather than rehash the divisive arguments of the past few years of British politics it's prob better to agree to disagree. Peace and love in Jesus Christ 🙏

[@bobgriffin2503]

@@jimisoulman6021 fair enough

[@tbojai]

Nothing more virtuous these days than to opine on the evils of technology. This long-form virtue-signaling does get old, even if it does reflect a form of truth. We get it. You think that putting the phone down is righteous.

[@quinnwindsor8718]

sounds like someone's convicted...

[@stephencotter538]

"We don't want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world."

[@dvald75]

This . ❤Thank you for quoting him in the comments

[@elizabethr7146]

Joseph Pierce speaks with the wisdom of G.K. Chesterton through the voice of the Artful Dodger

[@thomasjorge4734]

When I left Prison, I had no choice but to join the Catholic Church. Thank you, Mr. Pearce!

[@robertleftwich2811]

I will pray for you brother. Are you based in the US?

[@lukedurham8212]

Will remember you

[@Kinson09]

God bless you, Thomas.

[@jk777212]

Awesome my friend!

[@jk777212]

God bless you

[@thomasjorge4734]

In Silence, we can hear God. The Devil loves Noise. Demons turn up the Volume. Confusion leading towards Corruption.

[@danielr3127]

I loved the point about our immersion into the realm of unreality, particularly modern technology (social media and the internet), being layers that muffle the sound of God's voice. And indeed, we see this evident all around us in the 21st century because with the monumental increase in the use of technology and the submission to secularism that more often than not comes with it, we see a civilization of godlessness more clearly than ever before. So God's voice, which was once the loudest of voices, has now been suppressed into the quietest of whispers.

[@aclark903]

To be fair, I think drowning God out with noise has always been possible to some extent, certainly since the radio was invented. People these days watch TV less, buy less records, use the internet instead.

[@danielr3127]

@@aclark903 Yeah that's a fair point, but I think there's a certain uniqueness about social media and the internet in comparison to the things we've seen before, in the sense that it lures one into an entirely different world that allows for an unprecedented level of difficulty in actually looking towards God rather than away from him. Because nature, the heavens above and the earth below, declare the glory of God and point to his presence, and the place in which we find nature is not in the digital world but the real world.

[@aclark903]

@@danielr3127 True, but I think it also has to do with #urbanization. If you live in the #innercity where the only nature you see is #sparrows, #pigeons & grey #skies you probably will be less thankful to God for His Wonderful #Creation than the dude who lives on top of a #mountain in #Oregon.

[@sophiapostma4057]

This is awesome! Joseph Pearce spoke at my church in December as part of a monthly lecture series. Fr. Ripperger was the last speaker, I'd love to see an interview with him!

[@pop6997]

Really enjoyed Joseph as your guest Matt, thanks so much for introducing him to us. The Chesterton common sense gene is alive and well in this man. I love the teaching in the Church about considering God in his creation and how He is the source of all beauty. Reminds me of Joyce Kilmers poem which I love... I think that I shall never see A poem lovely as a tree. A tree whose hungry mouth is prest Against the earth’s sweet flowing breast; A tree that looks at God all day, And lifts her leafy arms to pray; A tree that may in Summer wear A nest of robins in her hair; Upon whose bosom snow has lain; Who intimately lives with rain. Poems are made by fools like me, But only God can make a tree. God Bless & many thanks 👍🙏

[@ptraynor]

Many many thanks for that.

[@rhoslynaguirreramirez485]

This is my favourite Pints with Aquinas talk ever. I think you can see that Joseph spends a lot of time in prayer. He is so clear when he speaks. Like others are saying, I have learnt a lot by listening to him.

[@sandraelder1101]

And a lot of time reading

[@johngwass4989]

Thank you so much, Matt and Joseph, for such an important discussion on crucial matters regarding our faith. From an 83yo Aussie, having returned to our wonderful Catholich Church, following an absence of 25 years as a non-believer. God bless you, yours and all the other viewers 🙏🙏🙏

[@christopherwilson7902]

This was a fantastic interview! Please have Joseph Pearce back on again.

[@maryshannon7551]

“Just anger” is to hate what God hates. Anger can move you to deeper prayer and movement to action that creates justice. I believe all the emotions can and should be used for God’s good . The expression of anger and emotions ,the way we respond to the emotion...that action is what makes it sinful, not the feeling. “Done in love” is hard to define within the social atmosphere where anything can be defined as “hate language “. My mother used to say ,” It is not everyone who says,I love you that loves you. Sometimes love tells you ,”don’t do that you will get hurt or cause hurt“. When a person is happy in their sin or pride; any form of truth that corrects can be received as unloving.” I need “Wisdom “no matter how old am , I cannot have enough of it. I have been guilty of causing harm by speaking the truth too harshly. Thank You! What a great interview.

[@maryshannon7551]

@François Léveillé Thank you, He said He would give us the desires of our hearts. But when I pray to be more loving ...the challenges show up. I’ll be praying for you and with you. I will pray. Thanks for the prayers.God Bless you!

[@josephzammit8483]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/opKYd5qVqNGmodk

[@ande389]

Thank you for this episode! I think the part on anger was especially helpful for me today. I love listening to Joseph Pearce! Thanks again!

[@MinosCheckpoint]

This was absolutely fantastic. I read Joseph Pearce years ago. He's as delightful as I hoped.

[@robertleftwich2811]

I loved Joseph's explanation of love. It just clicked so many things in my head. This is why we are commanded to love, and can promise to love someone forever, because it something we can "choose to do" rather than an abstract feeling that the beloved gives *to us* or not.

[@macanbhaird1966]

This was great .....all the way to the end , jam-packed full of gems, common sense and guidance. Thanks Matt and Joseph and God bless.

[@thomasjorge4734]

Big Governments Envy God and Covet His Power, as did Lucifer.

[@peaceandjoy2568]

Please have the brilliant and inspiring Joseph Pearce back regularly, Matt. We learn so much from his talks.

[@KEP1983]

25:02 "how do we move beyond the evangelical power of beauty to proclaiming the truth." I was a professional painter / artist for 11 years. I wanted to do sacred / liturgical art. I've become convinced that beauty is still the first transcendental that can move someone towards God, but that we do not use the correct form of beauty today (I guess you could say we have the right substance, but the wrong form). Sculptures and paintings were able to evangelize in the past because that was the greatest form of art at the time. Artists would literally put symbols in their artwork to tell a story, and the people seeing them actually understood the symbols. Today we simply see them as pretty pictures. On top of this, there was no way to listen to pre-recorded music, you had to be wealthy or visiting a large enough town to hear music. And seeing a theater production was even less likely. But the most powerful form of art ever created is no longer painting or sculpture. And I say this as someone who almost loves painting above all other created things! The most powerful form of beauty today is film. It takes every other art form and combines it into one form that punches the heart and stimulates the mind. It has the composition and lighting of painting and photography, the storytelling of novels, and the music of the concert hall, all packaged in one form that can affect the person more strongly than any other individual form. As Blessed James Alberione said, "...the motion picture as a psychological and suggestive power over the human spirit, because it takes hold of the whole person and influences all of his faculties, physical and spiritual. We need to put down the scissors of censorship and pick up the camera, because the power of the cinema surpasses that of the school, the pulpit, the press, and always produces greater results." --Blessed James Alberione

[@KEP1983]

Also, film uses all three transcendentals: Beauty in the photography/film/lighting and story, truth in the story and acting if it rings true (even a well told fictional story "rings" true and portrays humans as they really are), and goodness in the character changed through the character arc (which usually involves a person moving from some form of moral imperfection to some form of goodness). Truth, beauty, and goodness, all there in one form to deliver the maximum evangelical punch. Aaannnndddd we refuse to use it.

[@JP2GiannaT]

@@KEP1983 or we use it breathtakingly badly. Pretty much any picture by Pure Flix comes to mind. There are exceptions to that, of course. But in general, if a picture sets out to evangelize, it's de facto bad.

[@josephzammit8483]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/opKYd5qVqNGmodk

[@j2muw667]

“I don’t understand the thinking that the sapling is better than the full grown tree...” still relevant today! Will have to remember this! So many wise sayings. Going to be re-listening to this one!!!

[@Myohomoto]

Test match cricket...Essex...1985..BLISS!