Gaining & using EXTRA cheap rate energy with Octopus Intelligent - How does it work?

[@Newry2000]

Thata a really useful description of how intelligent octopus go can work to your advantage. We're on the rate too and the daytime top ups are very useful. Its all very easy to work with once you have switched over (which was very easy with our Zappi charger).

[@mab0773]

Great explanation Nigel.

[@EVPuzzle]

Always good to see actuals

[@Jaw0lf]

The Octopus app for charging, does state charge to add. Other day may car at just over 30% so plugged in and set it to add 50kWh. Unfortunately it stopped charging when the car reached 51%. So now I have gone back to 80% and it charged up to just over 80%. initially when integrating the Zappi as the control, if Octopus gave me extra hours, the Tesla Powerwall only knew that the 23:30 to 05:30 were cheap rate, so it emptied my Powerwall into the EV. I have now managed to get my Home Assistant to pick up when Octopus is on a cheap session and it puts the powerwall into backup mode, where it stops exporting and instead tops up again whilst energy is cheap. It swaps back over when cheap rate ends.

[@EVPuzzle]

Isn't it great when it works like that . I've never got the octopus override bump charge to work. There are lots of quirks in there but it does work well

[@KevinArmstrongUK]

There is an octopus energy add on for home assistant that gives you the current unit cost and also a flag to know if it’s peak/low and I use this for automation.

[@EVPuzzle]

Likewise but be aware the first half hour or first part half hour will show as peak but then be adjusted to non peak at billing time

[@JohnR31415]

Mine doesn’t show the right values though… so I run off the car charger power monitor

[@BiohaZd5]

Wow awesome. Do you have all those automations in Home assistant ? Could you share them with us. For example, when Zappi starts charging then you kickoff the battery top up etc. All of them together are soo powerful.

[@EVPuzzle]

Some are manual some are automated. Problem is catering for exceptions so I'm patient learning from manual control then automate. I will do a video on my ha automations soon

[@ismscsim]

Keeping the zappi on eco+ constantly seems to give lower tarrif for the house only when the car charges?

[@EVPuzzle]

That's how it works , car has to be charging or available to charge to get cheap rate

[@VVellieMan]

Interesting vid Nigel, this is exactly what I've been doing to get extra charging slots for home battery in the day as my ASHP empties it out by mid-morning. I was worried I was 'gaming' the system but clearly you think this is OK so has put my mind at rest. Why are you only charging car at 1.7kW btw..??

[@EVPuzzle]

Keeping with battery spec for EV charging I'm also just not in a hurry , I vary it from 1.8kw to 4kw typically using cars reduced charge options It's definitely not gaming or mis using , octopus know and are happy but I wouldn't over use or abuse the privilege I never charge in peak periods and never knowingly go over 6 hours charging which is their fair use stipulation. I take the view octopus not only know these issues are there they sort of like it. I mean there's a cool aspect to a tariff with hidden ways to get 'power ups' like a game. Social media is full of free advertising telling people tricks and tips. Wouldn't surprise me if they're deliberately there. I mean how hard is is to write a few lines of code to fix these things but they choose not to. Long reply here but I've been meaning to post this Octopus are really smart. They're ahead of the game and they're popular . People trust them. So much so people are concerned about cheating the system. This is an energy company . That sort of trust and loyalty is unheard of and refreshing . I personally think it's all by design not accident hence I have no concerns about thoroughly testing their system, using it and sharing how good it is . I dont reveal every detail though 🤭😉

[@Joshie120]

@@EVPuzzle it is gaining the system. Fair use policy, 6hours...

[@ianlinfoot2563]

If i only need to add 20% to my car but i request to add 80% to get cheap rate slots is this allowed or is this gaming the system ?

[@mackay250]

That's what I do with my batteries. It helps so much. I guess octopus get the excess electricity used up and it keeps you off peak times.

[@dangerman7408]

Nigel,can you buy a tablet or TV box which could be connected to a TV with home assistant already setup ready ?

[@EVPuzzle]

Home assistant Yellow is the easiest quickest setup . The display on the tablet is literally download the app and put the ip address in

[@edwardpickering9006]

I eagerly await the "Nigel AI Import Miser" plugin for Home Assistant to be launched...!

[@EVPuzzle]

Lol tricks of the trade eh? I find doing it manually for long enough you learn which actions are repeated di it's easy to automate with confidence. It's a great feeling when your automations catch and improve things you would've missed

[@mikejoseph425]

Can you offer a description of what you changed on the Zappi to switch the cheap rate off. A screenshot would be good

[@EVPuzzle]

Unplug the car or enter STOP mode

[@mikejoseph425]

Ok what I was trying to establish what is the setting o;the Zappi app which enables the cheap rate to utilised during the on peak period. Where it shows boost settings, it is set to manual. Should I adjust it to smart setting

[@neilthompson9254]

I do this with my battery. Question I have wondered is it against fair use to set app to say 80% when the car only can take another 15%. Also to draw things out you can dial down the ampage on the car to prolong the cheap rate battery charging period. Couldn’t see anything in the T&Cs ?

[@EVPuzzle]

It's a fine line about abusing it deliberately. Example I'd never charge cheap rate in the peak period even if it was offered . Octopus know these 'features' can be used beyond their ideals but that just means the system is popular . If it's profitable it's profitable

[@stephengoodier6464]

I also had these concerns, I was seeing 4 extra charging slots during the day I wanted to know if you could still benefit from these even if my EV was out plugged in. This is Octopus’s direct written reply. - You can indeed benefit from the lower rate of 7.5p during the scheduled event time, regardless of whether your EV is charging or not. Any electricity you use in your home, including charging a home battery or running household appliances, will be billed at a lower rate during that specific event window.

[@EVPuzzle]

@@stephengoodier6464 thanks for this, amazing how done people don't trust what they hear in the internet 😉🤣

[@DTech101]

Hey mate that looks like it worked well on the DVCC, what level are you adjusting it too as we had a few good spells of solar and I’m looking to capitalise on sun power lol

[@EVPuzzle]

I have switches setup for 5a 10a 15a thru 75a I use mostly 5, 10, 15 and 60

[@DTech101]

@@EVPuzzle like dash switches? how do you integrate it?

[@philippadobson1589]

Question on the Victron settings you use. I have on a few occasions done the same as you - set the car to charge when I was running low on charge in the battery. I don't think there is any issue with it so long as you aren't doing it multiple times a week. What settings do you use to put the batteries into charge mode? I just go in through the VRM - Remote console, ESS scheduled charging and activate a charge - perhaps there is a more direct method? Also when you are setting up the inverter to export in a saver session do you use the Grid Setpoint to export - which works but seems messy, or have you loaded Dynamic ESS?

[@EVPuzzle]

I use the top right button in vrm to select keep batteries charged. Fewer clicks

[@philippadobson1589]

@@EVPuzzle I guess you have to remember to press it again once the session ends though.. Alexa has her uses.. Are you using or have you looked at Dynamic ESS?

[@EVPuzzle]

@@philippadobson1589 looked but not touching I'm happy using home assistant Yes you have to remember , I use Alexa for reminders but typically turn it back to normal before the end period

[@philippadobson1589]

@@EVPuzzle Does Home assistant allow you to set up an export amount for a saver session? I have been considering Home Assistant but not quite sure where to start - its a bit daunting.

[@EVPuzzle]

@@philippadobson1589 best starting place for a non computer geek is a starter system , the Yellow box or similar from home assistant themselves . Thats the route I took and I do have it skills. Plug the box in , download an app to my tablet , connect the two over IP and that's it..well the start anyway The alternative is to follow KZbin videos and buy the kit separately, Install HA then connect to it It's definitely worth it but expect the process of adding all your data to not be instant

[@yellownev]

Another really useful video, thank you. I am relatively new to HA, at around 5 mins you were working out manually the time to empty batteries based on SOC and current demand - I'd like to get an automation in HA that does this for me so on a 10 second update from the inverter to HA I could see the estimated time i have left ? Also is there not automations to to automatically turn on the battery charging when the Octopus go gives 7.5 p energy during the day ? I would have thought Octopus would want this ?

[@romanpikuzinski3434]

Hello Nigel - good video :) I have a question - If i switch from GO to IO do I have to faf with app everytime I plug in? I'm not necessarily interested in extra slots during the day. Just want to charge overnight during cheaper rate until max SOC is reached in car settings (Kona). Do I have to select % of charge to add and "by when" every day to generate charging slots?

[@EVPuzzle]

No a single set of settings works each day . If the car is re plugged in each day the settings start afresh each day you only need adjust for any changes in circumstances

[@terrymackenzie6784]

What time do you set to have the car ready for when you want extra slots?

[@SmithyScotland]

Do you regularly wake up at 3am to change charging settings? Does sound like a gaming of the system though.

[@EVPuzzle]

Lol , automation is a wonderful thing 😉 It's amazing what effort I make just for KZbin though

[@PhilipToogood]

@@EVPuzzleI’m impressed with your HA programming skills and data rich videos; I wouldn’t know where to start with that! I’m on the same tariffs as you and this is my control method to get the best out of IO Go:- I plug a Ohme charger into my ‘dumb’ PHEV at 15:30 each day with ‘ready by’ set to 19:00, which is enough time to fill the battery at a low 2kWh rate set by the car. The Ohme allocates off peak slots for the whole charge session each day without fail (so far this winter). On the Octopus R&D app controlling my GivEnergy inverter/17.8kW battery pack, I’ve set the battery to charge each day from 00:00 to 05:30 and 15:30 to 19:00 and export from 06:00 to 10:00 and 13:00 to 15:00, providing a useful income for my surplus energy and ensuring the battery isn’t used to charge the car. Home consumption from the battery during peak rate hours averages 7kWh and export averages 11kWh. Any solar is a bonus.

[@brookejonny]

Why is your Zappi charging at only 1.85kW and not at say 7kW, have you manually reduced the max power on the Zappi?

[@EVPuzzle]

To keep charge rates within battery spec so our home battery can support the charger activating . I don't need fast rates so slow is better. Sane with hot water , immersion down to 2kw

[@brookejonny]

That is great, I am keen to do something similar. If you throttle the Zappi down to, say 2kW maximum will octopus be aware of that and schedule longer charging slots to allow for the same total requested amount?

[@EVPuzzle]

@brookejonny my understanding is it's based on the boost kwhs passed to the zappi they already cater for those charging on granny chargers too

[@stevenbooth9128]

@@EVPuzzle I've heard that reducing the rate the car can actually accept is something Octopus are looking at because it's gaming the system to get more cheap slots.

[@chrischild3667]

Great info, thanks. How did you get on to the 15p export? I wasn't allowed to get it (Octopus Go import tariff). Had to settle for a 8p rate... 15p and Intelligent Go is an ideal year round setup.

[@fraz3alpha]

You can't get it on the regular Go, you need Intelligent Go (and therefore a compatible charger or car)

[@chrischild3667]

@@fraz3alpha thanks!! Great news, just signed up to intelligent passed the tests etc. Have previously used agile and flux during summer and Go during winter. IO and 15p flat export could be the year round solution.

[@EVPuzzle]

Intelligent can have 15p export. Not GO

[@chrischild3667]

Right. I'm on IO now thanks chaps. Did the 11am trick at 9:30 today, got an hour and 15mins worth of cheap rate immediately. Car charging, house battery filling and heaters blowing. Absolutely fantastic. Thanks all for your help. Waiting for the 15p export rate to take effect. No rush for that just yet.

[@EVPuzzle]

@@chrischild3667 it's like these daft short videos and scam adds. This short easy trick will save you hundreds of bit thousands ..... But it's true, joining octopus and getting their cheap smart tariffs is amazing

[@joanaltera574]

What setting you used on the Octopus app and Zappi to get the those extra slots?

[@EVPuzzle]

I did show the screen settings but it's more about the time of request and plugging in Best to try settings on your own system rather than replicate from here but I often plug in at 9 and request by 11am Percentage just needs to be more than zappi has provided thus far

[@peterrockell1527]

I'm looking at swithcing to Octpus once my current dela runs out in a couple of months. Are you saying that with Octopus you can have separate tarrifs for import and export please?

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes, there's a good choice if import and export options. Some are separate FLUX is integrated together

[@peterrockell1527]

@@EVPuzzle Thanks, I'll do some more digging. I have 4.8kWh of Pylontech batteries and export a little in high summer. I'm cosidering their Agile tariif at the moment. Now, if I can figure out how to get HA to set parameters in my MultiPlus-II that'll help too

[@chrisriley2316]

Hi. Are you sure that the time slots given for cheap electric applys to the whole House? I was under the impression that it was only for the car charge and that octopus could determine this by data fed back to them.

[@EVPuzzle]

I said many times and made it clear here again , I'm charging my battery , heating my water , powering the house and charging my EV, there's no differentiation. Your tariff is whole house , it can not and is not restricted to just your EV charging .

[@chrisriley2316]

Ok I understood clearly what you said. Now can you tell me how you know it applys to the whole house? Persumably not just by looking at the meter.@@EVPuzzle

[@EVPuzzle]

@@chrisriley2316 I've checked my bills, it's also logical as they can only bill from the meter not zappi values which could be wrong

[@lynnfisher4396]

Can confirm the whole house runs on 7.5p 2330-0530 even when not charging the EV that night. As Go used to do for 4 hours. Any extra sessions for car charging outside of those hours are also at 7.5 to house and car if the car charge is done through the app for scheduled charging.

[@stephengoodier6464]

@@lynnfisher4396 I had the same question and I asked Octopus, this is their reply. You can indeed benefit from the lower rate of 7.5p during the scheduled event time, regardless of whether your EV is charging or not. Any electricity you use in your home, including charging a home battery or running household appliances, will be billed at a lower rate during that specific event window.

[@residentweavil233]

afternoon mate- does your solar platform also provide blackout protection is complete offgrid like the tesla powerwall or is it on a total power outage from grid your house goes dark? Current guy quoting me for solar said only some systems have that cutover capability but that the mainstream ones didnt. Know your victron system is bespoke but i dont have the knowledge for that. your help / guidance would be appreciated

[@EVPuzzle]

It can do YES but currently it's battery only power when the grid is off, no solar. That's plenty of power really but just needs a wiring change on the inverter to get solar power when the grid is off too Most battery Inverters only allow a few small circuits to be protected without a backup box optional extra like Tesla have . Victron is designed from scratch to have this inbuilt

[@residentweavil233]

sorry i should rephrase my question - when in a blackout can your current setup auto switch to provide 240v to domestic using the battery array as the source?@@EVPuzzle I think from reading your response that the victron has that inbuilt but was unsure whether that only provided lighting etc or also enough power to provide radiator heating adn water heating

[@EVPuzzle]

@@residentweavil233 no my entire house is protected I've wired the main fuse board from the battery . In a power cut the only thing I lose is my zappi car charger . It's a big power load I don't need in a power cut It's limited though so I have to use things cautiously, fewer things all on at once keeping below my battery maximum output , even a power wall can be maxed out easily

[@residentweavil233]

brilliant thats what i was looking for, now all i need is a sparkie/ solar company that will do it for me up fife rather than the you have to buy our bulk product package style they try to force @@EVPuzzle

[@Bill-uf6os]

Doesn't look like there are any cheap rates for just home batteries. An Ev is needed which is batteryist.

[@EVPuzzle]

Just get an EV, you're missing out

[@jezlawrence720]

Try actually calling them and talking to them. Few years back they let me onto standard go even though their policy already had switched to being "for EVs". I didn't negotiate I just asked and to my surprise they said yeah that should be ok. This was 2-3 years back. They might've tightened up by now. But call them octopus are really very reasonable.

[@getretrofitted]

There are EV tariffs you can access without EV - see our latest video :)

[@73henny]

This is outwith the terms and conditions. This type of use will ruin proper use for proper users.

[@EVPuzzle]

I disagree , it's within their terms and octopus are fully aware

[@jsouto77]

This is actually acceptable and within T&C's. If he was then manipulating to export what he imported, it would not be since it's not the reason why they now allow the higher export for renewables production on this EV tariff. There is however one thing to note. This is a great help for the winter/shady days but not for when the sun is shinning because if you are importing, you automatically do not export and get paid so its a double edge sword in this respect.

[@73henny]

@@jsouto77 Manipulating car charging to top up a battery is not within T&Cs

[@jsouto77]

@@73henny Yes you are correct, there is no mention whatsoever which is the point I made. He can plug in his car at home anytime he wants. and that is within the rules and a minority. Octopus is more interested in his solar at he moment. At the end of the they if he was given a slot, it because there is surplus in his area. Another time there might not be as its not guaranteed.

[@eddiereed5025]

you dont mention the saving on the tv licence i assume you dont have one as you are constantly monotoring your system.

[@EVPuzzle]

Haven't had TV license for few years now . KZbin and premium services much better but I do need android glasses 🤓🤓😉